Can Fairphone survive the US market

0:02Welcome to The Vergecast, the flagship podcast of sustainable Android smartphones. I'm David Imel, and today we're talking to Fairphone CEO Raymond van Eck. Now, Fairphone is a Dutch electronics company. They're most well known for their highly repairable smartphones, like the Fairphone 6 +, which just launched in the U.S., but they've also got things like sustainable and replaceable earbuds and headphones. They've just released this phone in the United States. It's their first phone in the U.S. market. And I want to talk to Raymond a little bit about how that's going and their plans for the future.

0:34But first, here's what's happening on The Verge today. This is 90 Seconds on The Verge for Monday, August 31st, 2026. Today is Tim Cook's last day as the CEO of Apple. Tomorrow, he'll be passing the baton to John Ternus, and Cook will transition to executive chairman of Apple's board of directors. In a statement to the company, Cook reminisced on his time at Apple and expressed gratitude for the people he worked with. While Cook was focused on growing the company's supply chain to one of the most impressive on the planet, it will be pretty exciting to see what a product-focused Apple looks like in the coming years.

1:07Bloomberg is also reporting that longtime Apple executive Phil Schiller is stepping down from his role as head of App Store and Apple events, but will be staying with the company to continue working on unspecified initiatives. Next up, Sony Music Publishing and Warner Chappell have filed a lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, seeking damages for tens of thousands of copyrighted works. The companies are asking for up to$150 ,000 per work, plus up to$25 ,000 for each instance of copyright data being stripped. The damages could amount to several billion dollars if Sony and Warner are awarded the maximum amount.

1:43And finally, MapQuest downloads have surged after it refused to change the name of Lake Ontario to Lake America following an executive order on August 27th. Google Maps officially changed the name over the weekend, and Interior Secretary Doug Burgum says Apple may soon follow suit. In a tweet, MapQuest said, We're not changing the name of Lake Ontario. Name it whatever you want at your leisure. You can read more at TheVerge.com. That's 90 Seconds on The Verge for Monday, August 31st, 2026. In the AI era, you have to stop cyber attacks where they start. So security has to be fused into the infrastructure itself.

2:23That's why the network that connects everything is also your best defense. Cisco, the critical infrastructure for the AI era.

2:34Hey, Chicago. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Croc store today. Raymond Van Neck, welcome to The Vergecast. Thanks, David. Happy to be here. So first off, for people that do not know Fairphone, you are the CEO of Fairphone. Yes. Can you explain the mission of the brand here? Yeah, well, Fairphone is a Dutch tech company, and we are doing something that was long thought to be nearly impossible, right?

3:27So, which is building high-performance modular smartphones that can last for an extremely long time. So, we have a five-year hardware warranty, which is also in the US, but also seven to eight-year software support. And it's all done so you can hold on to your device for as much and as long as possible. and we also focus on ethically sourced materials and fair wage labors for the people working on the fair phone and to give you let's say a quick example of what that looks like you know if your phone battery died or you cracked the screen you know these things happen to all of us then instead of paying a lot to someone who needs to fix your device and you need to wait around while that person does that.

4:14You can just repair it yourself, right? So you can order the spare part on fairphone.com and let's say$30 and a few minutes later, you have a perfectly working device done on your kitchen table with a single screwdriver. And, you know, that's what we do. And that's what we're pushing right now as well into the US to be the norm. Yes, so you just entered the US with the Fairphone 6 Plus. I've got one here in this very nice purple color. Very well. How has the launch in the U.S. gone, and what has that process been like for you guys? Because it's famously very difficult to get phones launched in the United States.

4:51Yeah. Well, it's gone actually quite well. So we have a lot of interest both from media as well from customers, and we are shipping out the first orders. So that's super nice. Yeah, so, you know, on August 18th, 18th we we relaunched uh our latest and greatest that's that's the six plus right and uh well we officially entered the us smartphone market now as well after doing the audio last year and basically we are tapping into this this growing right to repair movement so uh you know i would say us customers as well right they got used to the plant obsolescence and the expensive upgrades which you have on phones and at the same time you have this global memory shortage which is also causing a lot of market polarization and you also see let's say shrinkflation over the also in the mid-range Android market where we're in and basically with that we thought okay it's now time to give an alternative especially with the right to repair movement reaching momentum through all the states so that created for us a perfect environment to do our official entry in the US market and we do that step by step because we also look closely on what happened on the market before and took notes I would say so first of all you can order the Fairphone on our website fairphone.com as well as through Amazon and we are slowly but surely building that out we are talking to MVNOs and MNOs as well and actually building up the momentum there.

6:33Do you think that you're going to be able to get on store shelves in the United States or is that a whole separate process that's very difficult? It's a process that's also connected, obviously, to the bigger retailers as well as to the MNOs. And we're also talking to the retailers and MNO parties, of course, to be on that shelf space. and that will be a process in due time that we need to succeed on that. So what are all the repairable components in the Fairphone? Because I'm sure that there are certain pieces that people tend to break more often than others but maybe there might be something that is a little less common to break.

7:14What is everything you can actually replace in this thing? Well, I think you of all people, David, know, right? I think you've told me that you switched a camera the other day as well. So first of all, you'll have the cameras here, which you can switch, but also things that people easily tend to break, right? The screen. The screen is also a matter of a few minutes that you can just swap out. Same goes for the battery, but also PCBs. But also one thing that is really much overlooked by a lot of people, and it's easily breakable because people try to harass it all the time, is the USB-C port, which is also just in a blink of an eye, you can just swap that and have a brand new.

8:00And the interesting part, for instance, it also makes people to get used to the fact that they can switch and use these modular items, but they also get used to the fact that it's okay to open the device. Hey, if you can't open it, you don't own it, right? Right, right. I think something that a lot of people mix up between like Fairphone and maybe some other companies is a lot of people expect that these phones are going to be upgradable. Are there any upgradable parts in these where if you have, like, say, an older Fairphone, you can put some of the newer components in or things like that? Or is it mostly just made to be repairable?

8:37It's now mostly made to be repairable. In the past, we had, for instance, camera upgrades when that still was a thing, I would say, from the Fairphone 3 to the 3+. but nowadays you know we would love to be able to have something like that on offer but the current hardware upgrades also on the 6 Plus are not elements which simply or which are simple to play with and to move between devices so for now these remain two separate phones for instance the 6 and the 6 Plus with separate spec sheets though with a lot of shared components So a lot of people in my demographic, at least, are thinking a lot more about sustainability.

9:21They're thinking about moving away from Google and Apple and trying to buy a phone from a company that they actually want to support. How has the reception been in the United States? And are you seeing a lot of momentum here? If you look to the U.S., right, also on our social media channels, in our community, et cetera, there are a lot of people living indeed in the U.S. in the US and ask us like, okay, when do you come to the US? When will I be able to at least to have an Android alternative to, for instance, also to Google and Samsung, et cetera? Yeah, and of course, it's needless to say that those people are very happy with the fact that we now entered the US market.

10:04But it's also interesting to see, for instance, in a demographic of the ordering process. So we see orders coming in from across the US. So it's not particular, I don't know, sustainability, California thing or whatever, what you have. We see it across the state. And that's interesting as well because that's actually quite parallel to what we see in Europe where we're growing a lot. 80 % of the Fairphone 6 buyers, for instance, are new to the brand of Fairphone. So we're more and more tapping into that mainstream segment as well. stepping out more and more out of this niche, as you may. Is there an age range, like globally, that you guys are seeing more particularly of?

10:49Because at least people in my demographic age range, they're talking a lot more about sustainability, being able to hold onto their phone for a longer period of time. We see people buying it across all age groups. But more and more, we see also people that are a little bit more younger, Gen Z, buying our phones, or at least also have a particular interest in it. not only on the sustainability side, but again, also on the fact that it's self-repairable. And also they understand more and more the fact that when you buy a Fairphone, you're not only buying it for the specs at that moment, you're also buying it for, let's say, the total cost of ownership, which sounds quite technical, but in the end, people start to understand that, you know, again, if you can swap your battery for let's say$39 or for$90 your screen, that is also attractive to people.

11:43Something that I found very interesting on the last Fairphone that I feel like kind of like plays into the demographic that I exist in is this kind of smart switch on the side that puts it into, I don't want to say a dumb phone mode, but it kind of is like a focused dumb phone mode. What was the mentality behind that? Like what made you guys want to have a hardware switch for that? Yeah, you know, a fair phone is not maybe also fair for the industry. It's also fair for, I would say, people. And also we more and more notice that people are also getting distracted with the phone, right? Or, yeah, as you may every now and then want some focus time, but they do not necessarily want to switch to, let's say, a dumb phone.

12:32so what it does for instance here you can you can see my phone with the well all the apps that are there and my kids my wife but if i switch the button it immediately goes to a focus mode and in this case it means you can select basically the apps that you still want to have working so in my case i have spotify if i want to be in the focus i can use my camera if i see something when i'm walking outside and i don't want to be distracted i want to take a picture of and actually only my wife and kids can call me and all the rest is being blocked out and I can switch it immediately on again the moment I just want to be available.

13:10To me especially, right, talking to people or for instance like you or even better, right, if I want to show to my kids, for instance, that they should less use their smartphone, then I'm happy that I can put my phone on the table and switch the moments on instead of being disrupted by a call the moment I try to explain to them that they actually need to put their phone away, right? Yeah. What are all the features of Fairphone? You call it Fairphone Moments. That's the toggle mode with the hardware switch. What are all the things that that can do for you? Yeah, there are a lot of different features there.

13:47So one is also a light bulb. So we have here in the setting screen, you have basically a whole list of things that you can just make your switch do so you can just put it as a simple do not disturb mode or a flight mode or a torchlight also for instance if you want to switch between your private profile your work profile battery saving there are different things that you can attach to this fairphone moment most people choose to to use it basically as a focus mode or for instance when they're driving that only google maps works or whichever navigation app you have and you're not get distracted by WhatsApp messages during your drive, etc.

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17:14One of the toughest sells for a lot of people in the United States is selling a mid-ranged Android phone. In the U.S., people tend to be on carrier plans, so they buy expensive phones. And, you know, one of the most popular phones in the United States is the iPhone XL version, you know, the Pro Max. Is it difficult to sell a mid-range Android phone, especially in the U.S.? Like, do people struggle with making that trade-off between their ethics, I suppose, and a mid-range phone? What have you seen there? Well, you know, Europe is in that case maybe not so different. So it means that you also have people here who just want to have the latest and greatest and want to upgrade their phone every year.

17:59But in the end, right, people are not stupid, I would say. So they see that spending a lot of money to have that latest and greatest and then have this incremental change on a phone to a lot of people actually that is, you know, it's becoming more and more clear that when you buy a Fairphone, which I think it's also a bit of a misconception to see that the phone is expensive. because in the end, especially by the way, if you look to sustainability, that's not a key driver on the price of a phone. Mostly it's skill. So the bigger we become, the better that is for a bill of material. But having said that, most people that buy it also understand the fact that you buy it and then be able to hold on to that phone for longer.

18:48Especially if you look to this total cost of ownership concept again, try to replace a screen at one of these iPhone Pro Max models that you were just pointing out, you can almost buy a Fairphone for the cost of that. Right. You talk about sustainability a lot here. And in 2021, I interviewed your previous CEO and he talked a lot about the goal of the company being to persuade other companies to be more sustainable, to be more thoughtful about where they're getting their lithium from. Can you explain your efforts there? And is that still something that you're focused on? Yeah, absolutely. Right.

19:27Our mission is also to change the industry to become more ethical when it comes to producing consumer electronics. The rising tide lifts up all boats. So what I mean to say with that is that we have, for instance, things in place also in the Republic of Congo, if you may. There is cobalt is being mined there. Yeah, we have founded there the Fair Cobalt Alliance in which we also have now teamed up with Tesla, also with Google, Glencore, other players. And basically what we do, we pay just a dollar extra for every gram of cobalt that we get out of the chain. And with that extra money, we can improve the circumstances in the mines, take the children outside of the mines, etc.

20:11And that is something that we do just on a broader level. So team up with the industry. we're open to that we're very open in everything right the blueprints of the phone and we're open source they're all there it's just for someone else also to pick up the to pick it up and start working with it and yeah maybe David already to catch you off your feet I think a lot of people then ask us yeah but what is everybody else is doing it right where is your competitive edge well So again, first of all, we're on repairability. We see now the level is going up because there's legislation. If that's the bottom, we're still at the ceiling.

20:50So I think we still have a lot to offer to everyone else to make fair for an attractive offer, even if others start copying it. But I do hope, sincerely hope that will happen. Right. Yeah, speaking of repairability, you guys also make earbuds and you make over-the-ear headphones, which you are currently wearing. Yeah. what's the story there? Like, what are the parts that you can replace there? Why did you choose those parts to be replaceable? Can you explain that? People have this conviction that, for instance, if you take the fair butts, you know, in ears, it's, of course, when you think of it, it's super strange that if you lose one earpiece, you maybe have to buy a whole new set, or if the battery wears out, that you cannot just open the little thing and change it, so you just toss it away.

21:37we make also these headphones every part is replaceable even the drivers but if you look for instance to our fair buds even the small battery you can change and yeah so it's also the battery in the cases itself and basically if you open them you can just you can totally open it so for instance you can replace the batteries on it and actually basically all the different parts you can also see by the way of course on fairphone.com you can see a total list of all the parts yeah there you can you can replace that yourself so everything is designed i think that's good to say there's repairability but repairability often requires someone else to do it for you and we design this basically to do it yourself so even i i have two of these left hands i would say I'm not the most, I would say I'm quite clumsy, but even I can do so.

22:35What do you think has changed about the company in the two years since you've been CEO? And where do you want to take it? What's your primary focus? So my primary focus actually is for us to, instead of being the exception, to become the example. and for me right where Fairphone was was really good at was in the end the whole impact story so for instance if you look to our impact report and the things that we are doing in the whole supply chain that's unprecedented right but you can only really have an impact if you also are able to scale and to grow and that's why we were fully focusing as well now also on the product because if somebody walks into a phone shop you know they just want to have a good device and then sustainability becomes the reason they feel good about the product they already have decided to buy um you know within uh in my opinion when in four years from now four to five years from now we need to be just this this impact tech unicorn company and i think that's feasible and that's something that we really are going for well is there anything that you want to tease for the the future the direction of the company or anything fun you got coming up of course you haven't seen the last of us also on on products so we are quite busy again thinking of also our next smartphone and the direction to to take that we always take the input of the community there as a starting point so we also got some good pointers already from the community what they really are in need of and that's something that we're really looking into as well as thinking on all kinds of AI features that we could include into to our next phone as well and yeah you know I think it's also good to mention that with also the Gen 6 plus we also have upped our memory which also means that to be future proof for all the AI developments that are coming as well and that's also the direction that we are heading right just to deliver phones that also in this dynamic world can still be there and and basically are built to last i want to touch on that real quick before we close out uh when you say like ai features things like that how do you guys think about ai and ai features because that is a very contentious topic and for like a sustainable company that thinks about ethical stuff like what what's your angle for that Well, first of all, right, AI is here to stay.

25:12So I think for us, it's important and it can tap right into the values that we have. So one of the things that we are offering is also privacy friendly phones. So first of all, our phone comes without bloatware. And we also make sure that privacy is respected. and I think if you then sway over to the topic of AI, right, you can think of all kinds of developments that we could put on the phone that also respect the privacy of the users of these AI features. But also on the sustainability side, you can also think of things like that really support you to hold on to your phone longer or to be more conscious on the energy users of the phone.

25:59or what have you. So there are all kinds of developments that we are doing. But I cannot open the kimono, of course, fully. We are quite busy with these developments. But we're also happy to come back and tell a little bit more about that. Yeah, great. Sounds good. Well, Raymond Van Eck, thank you for joining us. I really appreciate it. Thank you, David. Appreciate it. That's it for The Vergecast. Let us know what you think. Call the hotline 866-VERGE11 or email vergecast at theverge.com. And to support everything we do here and get ad-free podcasts, subscribe to The Verge. The Vergecast is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

26:38We're produced by Josh Cajas, Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer, and Travis Larchuk. See you next time. This summer, no excuses. Double down when everyone else disconnects. At Equinox, that's high-performance living. Science-backed training, real results. Start today at equinox.com. Fall is the perfect time to refresh and reorganize your space. At the Home Depot, find power tools and tool sets starting at$50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, The Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list.

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