Google's AI-stuffed Pixel 10 event

31:42It'll say something like if you. Why does that have to be established? Well, here's the alternative. Because we live in a dystopian future where. No. Yeah. There's no such thing as a photo that is not taken by a camera. Is there something I'm missing here? Okay, so the rationale for this is if you only tag the things that are AI, then it gives the appearance that the untagged thing is real, which may not be the case. We just don't know if it's AI or not. So this is a little bit of like Google's going to set the good example. And hopefully every, you know, Instagram will have all kinds of tags about this was taken with the camera.

32:27And we'll see how that pans out. But I appreciate that they're doing it. And I get it. It's weird. You know, sometimes this what is a photo question is like impossible to answer. And other times I'm like, yeah, it's a camera. It's like, was there a camera? Like, yes. Yeah. If it wasn't taken with a camera, I feel very confident. It feels like unimpeachably not a photo. Vergecast at theverge.com. Email me if you can figure out what a photo is that's not taken by a camera. Yeah. Well, it's just a picture. It is. But we wouldn't call it a photo. We just wouldn't call it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Okay.

33:09Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is a photorealistic painting. Yeah. That it's not. It's a picture. A picture versus a photo is going to be. OK. Yeah, this is. It's a robot's memory of a tree that it saw one time. We should do a what is a photo package and just have everyone on staff contribute and lose our minds collectively and just let that live online. That's the end state of The Verge. Yeah. Because all of us become hermits afterward. We'll be released. We'll do this one last what is a photo package and then all of our souls will be released to Valhalla and we'll retire. Exactly. The other thing we have to talk about here is Magic Q, which is like maybe the flagship feature from the AI standpoint, at least as Google is pushing it.

34:04Allison, like is this thing actually going to be helpful? Like this is their attempt to make AI actually maybe potentially useful. Yeah, and it's the demos we saw were really interesting, but they were on rails. So just to explain, this is sort of a contextual, always there AI that can kind of prompt and autofill things that might be relevant. So the, I think, demo everybody saw was a friend text you like, hey, do you have the details about our dinner reservation tonight? And MagicQ will kind of take that and go to your Gmail and come back with, you know, the relevant details in theory that it's like the name of the restaurant.

34:54And it'll kind of present that as a thing you can just potentially like paste into the conversation. So there's a little bit, it's, I think it was described to us as ephemeral. That is like concerning. They're like, we're not storing all of your data forever. We know all of it. We just might not hang on. This is like, this is the dream, right? Like this is I mean, this sort of gets at what Apple was trying to promise with Siri, where it's like it knows everything. It sees everything. It surfaces for you at the right time. It's not it's not entirely like I love the pitch of this. Right. Like those are the things that are super annoying to like juggle and look up.

35:37Can it actually pull that stuff up? Can it do this in every app? Is it just like they select googly moments? It is a handful of like Google apps, like Gmail, Calendar, Messages. It is in Gboard, so it can kind of work a little bit outside of just those core apps where if you were looking at something in Chrome and it senses you went to a shopping app, it's like you open up Amazon. Yeah, that's the example we got. It can suggest text in Gboard that you might want to paste in. It is all happening on device, which is good from the scary privacy perspective. And it incorporates some of like some of your very recent activities.

36:26So like in that example of something you were looking at and sort of feeds that into what you might see as suggested activities, but it's not saving those for super long. We didn't get exacts on any of that, but just enough to feel like maybe this isn't too scary. It's cool if it works, but the question is, is it going to get the right reservation? What if you're someone who's like a social butterfly and you're meeting some of the same people in the same group chats, but in different group configurations? Like, can it handle that? Yeah. It's interesting, too, because Google sort of already like has pieces of this individually within apps, right?

37:13Where it's like there's stuff with this that you can just hard code. Gmail already surfaces your flights at the right time. It started doing this thing that honestly I find very annoying. But it's like, it'll be like, hey, you've got a package coming and we're going to put the package thing up so you know your package is coming today. Right. So it's like already reading your emails. It's figuring out when you need them and surfing the right moments. It's like being able to do that, take it to another app, read what's happening in the app, give it to you at that time. Like that is that's a lot of juggling to do.

37:45And it's like, OK, flights. Got it. That's a good use case. This feels like a thing that they've probably programmed a few specific things for, and maybe it expands over time. Like, I think the idea is fascinating, and it's just not clear to me if they can actually execute this. Yeah, it'll be interesting, like, one, to try it out and see if it actually works outside of these demos. And, too, like, it sort of gets at that thing of are they just going to circumvent us going into apps? Are app developers going to love that? In the engagement economy, that's going to be interesting. I mean, presumably app developers can just be like, no, we're not going to open this up to MagicQ, you know, if that ever became an option.

38:34but yeah I wonder I sort of wonder what the limits are on something like this um but it's got to work first so I'm really curious they also have this like daily hub thing that like pops up with like a bunch like here's all the stuff for you to do today and I'm like I'm super interested in what this is actually capable of because it keeps it's like here's all the stuff on your calendar today and I'm like oh okay that would actually be really interesting for me because I like I use Google Calendar a little bit at work, but most of my life is in TickTick, the to do app. And if it can't access TickTick, then it's actually just like useless to me.

39:09Yeah. And this is kind of a version of something Samsung has. They call it like the now brief that I have found to be just completely useless. Honestly, the funny thing is that it feels like they sort of also took this from smart watch features, which are morning report. And like you wake up on your smartwatch first thing in the morning and it tells you the weather. It tells you what workout you're having next. And it tells you everything on your calendar. So I like that, honestly. Like, I honestly don't think it belongs on your phone. I think it belongs on something like that. That's my I'm biased, but that's my take on that.

39:47We'll see. I want to make sure we talk about one more important thing on the phones, which is that there's some magnets. There are magnets. Oh, yeah. Touched on this a little bit. But Chi 2 is real. It's happened. It's the only other phone was the HMD Skyline, which is more of a punchline than an actual product. This is great, right? Like, this is exactly MagSafe. Now it's on Pixels. They build it into the actual phones, a bunch of accessories. Like, is there more to this? It's just good. It's like they did it. It works. I think so. They said it in the show. They said you can use MagSafe and Apple stuff.

40:30And Jimmy Fallon was like, can we say the A word? So that's why he said that. So yeah. I will say like this is, there's a lot of stuff I will criticize Apple for like keeping locked down. And I marvel at the fact that they opened up MagSafe to the Qi ecosystem. and this seems right now it mostly seems good for android yeah i assume this helps all their partners who make all these accessories because they're gonna get to sell a whole lot more of them and there's so much money yeah and i i think they're just like they weighed the pros and cons because in my mind apple just has like a bunch of supply chain people and like those math nerds who are like the pros and the cons of how much money gets into our pocket by making it open versus closed and they just did the beep boop boop math and they were like oh we get so much more money for like opening it up.

41:19Let the Pixel have the MagSafe or whatnot. That's just like how I think it went. Meanwhile, green bubbles. They're like, seems like all downside. Yeah, that one's still not happening. All right, we got to take a break. When we're back, we're going to talk all about the wearables. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? Or what that clunking sound from your dryer is? With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app.

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43:50All right, we're back. And we've got a load more stuff to talk about from this Pixel event. Now, V, we're over into your wheelhouse. You're in my house now, guys. I would say I was not expecting this to be a particularly exciting year for the Pixel Watch. I was um I was just like I wonder what they're gonna do this year because the first two years they were first year they were like we finally did it guys we did a pixel watch and everyone's like yeah yeah yeah it'll be in a google graveyard next year and pixel watch 2 came out and they're like we did it guys we're catching up we fixed all the stuff that was bad about the first one because it was a first gen device and then the third one came out and I was like we're done catching up guys we were we're here now we have arrived third time's the charm and so i was like oh yeah so like what are you gonna do next year for the fourth and then they were like how about we blow your mind with ai and that's which is honestly what no man wants to hear no one wants to hear that but it was actually like a substantive update when i was writing my hands on i was just like oh jesus christ i forgot about this feature oh jesus christ i forgot about that feature Oh, I have to do two separate hands-ons because there's also an AI coach that's coming, and that deserves its own 1 ,200 words of talking about.

45:09So it was a lot. So, okay. So there's like a mix of things going on here. There's a bunch of like small but meaningful hardware updates, right? The screen is 50 % brighter. There's a domed display. So, you know, the glass is domed because they have this little what they call a rain droplet design. It looks like a little bead of water on your wrist, and that's their design ethos. So that display is the glass is domed, but now the display, the actual display underneath is also domed. And that enables a couple of different things. It's 50 % brighter, 3 ,000 nits. And then the bezels are 15 % thinner than the last generation, and the active display area is 10 % larger.

45:50So just by making it domed, they did all of that stuff. That sounds very silly, but it's actually very meaningful. It is. And then, like, I got the chance to look at, like, the Pixel 2, 3, and 4 side-by-side with the flashlight on so that I could see, like, the difference between both the brightness and the bezels. And I'm like, if you look at the progression of it, it's quite impressive. So that was just like, oh, nice hardware, guys. Yeah. Good job. So some, like, meaningful hardware improvements. It's also like dual frequency GPS, if you like satellite SOS. We can talk about the repairability a little bit more later, but it's more repairable than any other watch.

46:28And then there's the AI. The AI is all the other stuff, right? There's just like so much on there. There's like, well, like the Samsung watches, the Gemini is now on the wrist. But also, like you have smarter contextual replies. so that, you know, so one of the things about smart replies on the smartwatch is like someone texts you and you can just go boop and quick reply back. And usually they're pretty canned responses, right? They're like, yes, no, on my way. And like when I was talking to the Pixel Watch team, they're like, you know, most of the time people only use about 30 % of the time for conversations.

47:04It's not that helpful. So now that there's like an on-device LLM model on there, it will give contextual replies based on what was texted back. It was like, oh, so if someone texts you about a game, it could be like, yay, I'm really happy we won. And that's the response that you get to send back. And it's not limited to the default messages app. So if you use a different one, like WhatsApp, if you use, I don't know about Signal because there's privacy stuff there, but like KakaoTalk, which all my Koreans know, that is the text messaging app of choice for Korea and Korean-Americans. And you'll be able to have those contextual replies from that.

47:44And so that's one of the many ways that AI can be used on the wrist. As I've written before, though, using AI on the wrist is just a little weird. It's like, on one hand, for a smartwatch, I think those contextual replies could legitimately be pretty useful because you do not want to be typing. But Allison, you just spent a week using your watch as your main device and you did a bunch of typing on it. I think it was OK. Yeah. And maybe it's a little bit of pride for me because I'm like, I'm not using those canned responses or, you know, even if they are like pretty close to what I want to say that, you know, I'm like, this is my profession.

48:28Robot, don't come for me. but yeah i could see how it's just when you're initiating the conversation i'm like texting my husband on my way home i don't know how ai knows that i want to do that but i can see it being useful and maybe i'll just like get over my hang up with auto reply stuff i've gotten really into voice to text on text messaging i'm now i'm like i don't feel like typing like if this anywhere i'm not doing a full voice note no i'm straight up voice to texting i should maybe i should because it and it seems like an insane person because i will send like three paragraphs of text like to somebody just because i'm like i've just been talking for like two minutes straight i don't want to type i'm saying try voice memos next like mia turned me on to voice memos and now sometimes i'm like i ain't typing this i just sent like a two minute message if i got a voice memo from somebody i would feel like that was a threat i would be like what did i do i'm like i gotta put in earbuds now to know usually there's like a text there's usually a transcript too in case you can't like actually play it but i don't know i i've been i i had those thoughts and now i'm on that um now i'm on the voice memo train but also with with this new gemini on the wrist thing you can raise to talk i'm into the thing but it was interesting because you know oh i think a lot of the people i were talking to were saying like oh god another gesture that you have to do unnaturally like um and actually it's a lot more subtle like if you do that it won't actually bring up gemini just like like raise your wrist up to your like if you do it too like if you're like a power ranger when you're doing the move yeah like trying to talk into your wrist communicator It's not going to do it.

50:16So you have to do it like just like naturally and it'll do it. And I was like, oh, that's interesting that, you know, because there's a lot of movement that happens with hands, especially if you're like me and you're just doing hand gestures all the time. So having to find out when people are actually wanting to talk to Gemini was a lot of work that they put into it that I was surprised to find was actually like, oh, I don't have to do a crazy exaggerated moment. Because I'm so used to, after 10 years of testing wearables, doing things like flick, pinch, and like moving like I'm a power ranger because of how wonky these gestures have been over time.

50:52And that one was just one where it was actually quite fluid. And I was like, oh, that's surprisingly good. So the other big thing here, and I couldn't quite figure this out. There's this Fitbit AI health coach, which is the other like big part of this announcement. And I guess I'm curious, like, is that a Pixel Watch feature or is that just like these two teams are? Okay, so this is all Fitbits. And Pixel Watches. So it's not gatekept to the Pixel Watch 4. It is all Pixel Watches and all Fitbits will get this Fitbit AI coach when it rolls out in October. where you have to be a Fitbit premium member in order to, they are gatekeeping it because, well, you know, AI is expensive to run.

51:33And this health coach is, so my caveat is, is that I've tested a lot of AI health coaches and a lot of AI health and fitness features. I have yet to like a single one. And I walked into this demo being like, this better be good, buddy. like this better be something like here we go again friends and I walked out like cautiously I won't say optimistic but curious about it like they felt very thoughtful um the Fitbit app is going to get a complete it's going to get blown up completely and completely redesigned there's a dark mode coming for all the Fitbit people who've been wanting it for a long time but generally speaking this ai coach is going to be built into every single nook cranny and corner of the fitbit app and you're going to be able to talk to it to give like insights and you know i asked um uh sandeep uh and uh sandeep warak uh which mccall andy abramson and rishi chandra like this was a this was like a table of very like skeptical journalists grilling these dudes.

52:44Just like, you know, I went out and I said, you know, these have been capped in obvious level summaries just saying like, you did a workout. Thanks. Like, I can see that in my metrics. So like, how are you going to be different about it? And the answers I got were pretty thoughtful, like just, you know, it is going to reference your weekly patterns versus your daily patterns. but you can ask it about your long-term patterns. Because one of the things was I asked Aura, like, hey, what's my average hours of sleep for this year? And it would be like, girl, we can't do more than a month. And I was like, you're useless.

53:19That's not helpful. That's not helpful. Why do I have five years of Aura data if you can only do a month's worth? And they're like, no, you'll be able to do that with this. It is chatty. I saw the chat logs. I thought this was so interesting. And you asked them about this. You're like, bro, why isn't this shorter? And they were like, we tested and people didn't like it. Yeah. And they're like, well, we tested it to be shorter. But if you have an LLM, do it in three sentences. You don't get anything useful from that because it's just summarizing it so that it's so generalized as to be useless. And I was like, oh, interesting.

53:51So they are right now going for like pretty in-depth, like really long things. And then the idea is for it to be conversational and adjust. So, like, I've had problems where I get injured or it's really hot outside and I have a tendency to be a type A overachiever and push through the pain, which is not good for you when you're exercising. I've gotten injured a lot over the last few years doing that. And so now you can go talk to this AI and be like, hey, I tweaked my knee. I can't really do this exercise program that you've done for me. And I'll be like, okay, cool, let's adjust it. and it'll adjust it for you, which is sort of like the first time that we're actually seeing moving from just a static summary to going like, cool information.

54:38Thanks for giving it to me. Let me adjust that for you. And I'll check in with you a week later to see if you're ready to get back to your regular routine, which is like, that's what we've been asking for, kind of. Right. It feels like everything else has just been, we're not going to change the existing app. We're not going to add any new features, but like, hey, here's some AI. Like, we'll just summarize. we can already tell you. Yeah, it's like bolted on. And this feels like they're taking, or at least they're trying to take the maximalist approach, which is like, we're going to plug all of your data in and we're going to give you an essay back.

55:11Yes. And whether it works, that's an open question. We're going to see. But that is like the step that needs to happen, right? If you want actually good results from the AI, if you want the AI to actually be useful, it needs to have all your data. And that's the kind of part that I'm somewhat like, hmm, about? Because you've got to hoover in a lot of data. What, about handing over your health data? A lot of your health data. And the thing that they've pointed out to me is that when Google acquired Fitbit, regulatorily, for that sale to go through, they had to agree to the EU to keep all of the Fitbit data siloed out of the Google data because it was health data.

55:53So they are actually obligated to keep those data silos separate. Doesn't mean people trust it. Doesn't mean you should trust it if you're like a maximalist about data privacy security. But it is like a lot of data that they're going to be asking for. And they're starting out with fitness and sleep. They have ambitions for it to be everything. I was going to ask if you think there's like a play with a journal app that we saw on the phones. but if there's like no crossover I know you have some feelings about the journal app I don't think AI should be in journals I don't keep the AI out of journals journaling is not complicated and it's not supposed to be easy keep the AI out of the journals we didn't touch on this up top but for some confusing reason one of the new pixel features is a journal app.

56:51Yes. It's a journal app with AI prompts. Yeah. So you'll write journal entries in this AI app and it'll prompt you based on what you've written before for new prompts. So it's just like, hey, why don't you write about your feelings for a test that's coming up next week? And then you'll write and you can read summaries of the entries that you've written. And there's a little calendar and it puts little emoji summarizing your emotions You get like a score. Based on what you've written. Yeah, it's like a smiley face or just kind of like, you didn't have a smiley face day. I feel like you shouldn't be able to lose at journaling.

57:28That feels like it is antithetical to like, there's kind of streaks too. Yeah, it's, I saw that and I was just like, I think you should have a hard time with a blank page because that is the point of journaling. But yeah, no, I'm with you, Valison, on that conspiracy theory about like, linking those two things for because they do have ambitions beyond just fitness and sleep. Yeah. Those are just like the natural, easy on ramps for this kind of AI health coach feature. But they do want to get into nutrition. They do want to get into like overall health advising. And I was just like, let's run it up on the line of medical tech and wellness, a line that I've written about and is getting increasingly blurrier to my internal fear and horror.

58:17so there's there's a lot there that i'm just like

58:24It's all colliding. It sums it all up, yeah. It is. But to the greater point, the big issue with wearables is that it generates this boatload of data. And the average person is just like, okay, cool. I don't know what to do with this mountain of metrics that you've given me. And so the problem they're trying to solve here is giving you useful, actionable context if you're trying to lose some weight, get healthier, be able to run a marathon, like just whatever your goals are, just having, you know, the phrasing and the framing they use is like Steph Curry. who is actually partnering on this thing and giving feedback.

59:02And his team is like going like, yeah, you should do this. So they're like actually partnering on this particular feature together. But Steph Curry has a whole team of people helping him parse his athletic and health data. What if we democratize that with AI for you? I mean, listen, I would love if Steph Curry's people gave me some notes. That would be great. I feel like we're not getting notes at that level. from the Fitbit app. At least not at first. That's their goal. Whether they can get there is a totally different story, but that is their kind of like roadmap for that particular feature.

59:39And to be fair, it's one that Garmin's pursuing. Apple has Workout Buddy, which is like nowhere near this level of ambition because where's the new improved Siri? You kind of need that for that to happen. But I do think they're thinking about that as well. I think all of these companies are thinking down this route, this is just the most ambitious and I think thoughtful implementation that I've seen as to something that actually tells you something and isn't just a stapled on summary regurgitated book report. No, I think you're right. And I think between the Fitbit changes that are coming in October, between that and the Pixel Watch 4 updates, like there's a pretty opinionated series of products here.

1:00:21And I think the last piece of this that we saw is some of the hardware changes. And the one we didn't talk about yet is the repairability coming to the watch, which is sort of like a total surprise curveball here. Yes, because The Verge has done some real stress testing. We are apparently famous within that product team for destroying two screens of the first two Pixel watches, both unintentionally. We don't know how it happened. Listen, listen, it's not on us. We didn't know. I don't think, you know. Those things are broke. Like, I've had some people in my Pixel 2 watch review, like, there is no way you don't know how this happened.

1:01:00I am telling you on the record right now, I cooperated with every step of Google's investigation into how it happened. And we were all baffled, just completely baffled. I was like, I don't know. It sounds like agents, like, swarmed your house. Yeah, it sounds like they arrested you. No, they came in person and they were like, we're going to take this and do some tests on it. And I was just like, please. Pass the polygraph. I was like, please tell me. There's like conspiracy theories that my cat did it. He was a baby. I don't think he could have done it. He didn't have T-Fers yet. So, yeah. So apparently we are famous for having done that in some capacity.

1:01:36But what I was told is that they really want these devices to last a long time. So they want it to last a long time for people to have. And making it repairable was just one part of that. If you take the straps off and you look into the little lug area, there are little screws. There are little screws. And you can unscrew it. And if you take it off, it actually kind of, what they said is the insides have been redesigned to kind of look like a bento box. It all comes full circle. It all comes back full circle. All right. They took the bento box from the event and they put it in the Pixel watch.

1:02:10Put it in a watch. You open it up. There's a little update sheet inside it. It tells you what features it has. Yeah. Yeah, so the idea is that the display and the battery will be repairable and replaceable. Which is really impressive for a watch. Especially one where people were just like breaking the screens left and right. When you say people, pretty specifically. Us, but also other. We didn't do it with the Pixel Watch 3 and knock on wood, we're not going to do it with our Pixel Watch 4. I mean, try us. Can I say my favorite watch feature this year? Yes. Is the new charger, the new proprietary charger, which I know you're all annoyed by.

1:02:53The watch goes on it like it's sleeping on a pillow. It looks like it charges on its side and it just looks like it's sleepy and it's taking a little rest. once you said that and i put it in all my hands on and i'm pretty sure i credited you and at least most of my mentions of it across the thing but i was just like once i once you said it i couldn't unsee it i was like that's so cute it's just a tired little gadget so tired i'm sorry you need like another watch charger that is really annoying this is the third proprietary charger in four watches so that's not ideal from an e-waist perspective impressive it's yeah it's it's just like guys come on but i actually like it no that makes sense though too especially if like you're putting that beside your bed at night now you gotta look locked it's all right there's something there i see it uh on the topic of repairability that was not the only repairable gadget they announced um the other new piece of hardware i think the final new piece of hardware uh pixel buds 2a yes which what's repairable here it's it's they can you replace the battery yeah so There's the case, and there's the little insert inside the case.

1:04:05You can pop that out and replace the battery. Okay. It's the battery in the case, not in the buds, which would be kind of intense. Yeah. It's the case battery that you can just pop it out, replace it. That's pretty cool. Here's another thing. There's a big thesis with all of these devices, and the thesis is Gemini and AI, basically, because these budget buds got the Tensor chip. and why would they have a tensor chip? Why not? Future AI, baby. Like that's just, like you can just see that they're going like, we're going to need everything to have AI. Sometimes I think people are genuinely like, we're doing this because we think it's going to be cool.

1:04:50We think people are going to like it. And sometimes I think people are like, my boss really wants us to say AI. And that's what that feels like. I feel like someone's like, they're going to love it. They're going to like, I'm going to get a promotion if I put Gemini on this box five times. And like, what? Like, you could already talk to Google on this. Like, what do I need these Pixel Buds 2A to Gemini for me? You know, I think they're just kind of future-proofing for down the road for whenever it is that they have like AI-based sound audio features, you know? I mean, it's interesting because the original A-series buds were like$99.

1:05:32They were the kind of, you know, cheaper version. Now they're$130, so they're$30 more expensive. But they also have ANC and transparency mode, which they didn't have before. Right. Noise cancellation is actually like a pretty meaningful upgrade here. Yeah, that's a pretty meaningful upgrade. It's actually not. I was looking at the comparison page between the Pixel Buds 2A and the Pixel Buds 2 Pro. and it's like it feels sort of like google is like searching for places to to make the 2 pro different that like the difference in the noise cancellation is that they're like the pixel buds 2 pro has active noise cancellation with with live seal 2.0 and the pixel buds 2a is active noise cancellation with live seal 1.5 and i'm like what is what is live seal i like i don't know if I don't know if I have the name right, but it's like you're searching here.

1:06:22You're searching for, like, which is great. It's great if the Pixel Buds 2a are, like, getting closer to pro level of features. It does not have wireless charging in the case. No, that was annoying. That's a rough one. Yeah, once you're living that wireless charging lifestyle, it's hard to go back. It is, but it's funny because when Allison and I went to this content capture before the event, And if you looked at the displays, it was like, phones, watches. And in the corner right over there are the Pixel ones. We're like, where are they? Where are the Pixel ones? They're like, oh, they're in the corner.

1:07:00And when I was like, so what's new? And they're like, oh, ANC, and you can talk to Gemini on it. And the talking point was like, and you can talk to Gemini on it. I was like, couldn't you talk to Gemini on it before? But you can talk to Gemini. You can really talk to Gemini on it now. It was like, okay. Okay, so the AI, AI is the thing. And you know what? My big problem with literally all of Google's products, I can't find a way to talk to Gemini, you know? They make it so hard to access that. And they're like, you know, these devices, unlike your phone, they live on you. And so these are the different pathways in which we can talk to AI, AI in your ear, AI on your wrist, AI in your pocket.

1:07:43And I was like, oh, my God. Okay. New meaning to ambient computing, which is the whole thing that they were kind of talking about when they introduced the Pixel phone. So I guess this is what they meant. And speaking of Gemini being literally everywhere, they did potentially, we think they teased one other product here, which is just in the middle of a video of where they were demoing some stuff. they kind of just like there's a there's a weird little gadget that looks like a next gen uh nest hub nest mini google home mini what there was a little gray orb with like a blue ring around it that was was talking to them with gemini um it looks like a new nest smart speaker which they those things have been updated forever and they announced also on wednesday that they're finally bringing Gemini to smart speakers in the home starting in October.

1:08:40But like Alexa plus is going to be like slow rollout. So we'll see. We'll see. Have you guys tried using like Google Assistant lately? Yes. It's in my home because we had a smart home package last year and I was a first time homeowner. So Jen Tui like held my hand and walked me through my first smart home. And she decided that it was going to be a nest in Google smart home. So I talked to Google Assistant on the daily for my little broken jank smart home. Yeah. You know what? So it breaks half the time. Yeah, it's not great. Our four-year-old has learned how to get Google to say the weather. And the way he just yells at it is like, Google, say what's the weather today?

1:09:25So I think he's using it as much as we are. He has gotten it to be more functional than I have. This weekend, I was like, hey, Google, what? Oh, I'm so sorry to literally every listener. But this weekend, I was like, yo, what is the weight of an iPad Air? Seems, I feel like that's manageable. It was just like, I don't know what a question is. I don't know what an iPad is. Like, what do you, like, it like had a meltdown. It just like didn't know what to do with this. Mine is sexist because I will ask it to turn on the kitchen lights or whatever and it'll listen and my spouse will do it and it won't.

1:10:01It just does not register. And like we trained their voice on it too. So it's like interesting. Only listens to me. So they are just like, I don't know why we got to talk to this robot and I'm going to pull up the app and control it from the phone. So it's, yeah. Well, get ready for October because they're going to sell some new robots that will maybe. I truly think they're like, we got to be careful. We can't put Gemini in because we'll lose some Google Assistant features. And I'm like, no, like half broken Gemini cannot be worse than this. Like these things just do not function anymore. It's gotten really bad lately.

1:10:40I got to agree with you. And there'll be times where the wake word, I won't say it. I'm sorry again. The wake word will just activate out of nowhere. I don't know what I'm like, is my house haunted? Because it'll just like go bing, bong, bop, bop, and it'll say things. I've been on calls with sources, and it just acts up because I have a Nest Hub by my desk to look at the doorbell. And it's like, oh, cool. I just have a rogue smart speaker. Every time I talk to my cat, mine's like, you're talking to me, right? I'm like, well. Do they have similar names? No. I'm looking forward to seeing any movement here on making these things more usable again.

1:11:28I think like we don't really know, but yeah, I'm hoping that a lot of these features come to the older ones because there's a huge install base there and that product is obviously not what it once was. All right, we've got to take a break. When we get back, the Thunder Round returns new, improved, better than ever. Get ready for it. Every great company's story is defined by moments when the founders make bold decisions. These are high-stakes moments that risk the business, but can lead to greatness. I'm Rulof Boota, managing partner of Sequoia Capital and the host of Crucible Moments. We're returning for a brand new season.

1:12:09Join us as leaders from Stripe, Zipline, Palo Alto Networks, Klarna, Supercell, and more. Share what it's actually like to navigate the make or break decisions. Crucible Moments is back on October 23rd. Until then, catch up on seasons one and two wherever you find your podcasts.

1:12:46and has the ultimate pro camera system. Impressive. Let me try. At T-Mobile, you can save up to 20 % versus the other big guys. You heard them. T-Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible trade-in in any condition. Check them out to see how much you can save versus the other big guys at T-Mobile.com slash switch. Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded, so you can take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like tea time you. or this tea time you or even this tea time you said you hear about Dave or even tea time tea time tea time you so update on Dave it's up to you we'll take the laundry rinse it's time to be great okay we're back for a completely de-googlified zero google zero AI I think thunder round.

1:13:45That's what is new and improved about it this week. Perfect. Perfect. As you all know, I've been on a power trip since Neelai and David left. I have disposed of the lightning round. That thing is over. It's stale. It's done with. They could never get to all the stories. So I have given Eric Gomez, our producer, the power of thunder to make sure that we can get through all of the important stuff that we want to talk about. We're going to do five stories, five minutes each. When we're getting close to time, Eric's going to give us some rolling thunder that's playing us off. And if we go too far, we will be struck down by a sound that is related to lightning, but is distinctly not lightning because that is not part of this new world.

1:14:27Again, we're working on it. We're working on the intro. We're working on the segment. It's going to get better each week. Okay, first up, V, what have we got? We have Beans. So Hank Green released this app called Focus Friend, and it is kind of a Pomodoro timer. It is kind of a distraction-free situation. And our good friend Zach Brown wrote, Hank Green's Focus Friend swapped my screen time for Bean time. And I love this app so much. I downloaded it recently. and continuing my theme of using the brick for TV time, I am using the Bean app for reading time. And guys, I got through four books this week.

1:15:12How? That is insane. I got through four books this week. I've gotten through seven books this month. It's amazing. Do you read a physical book? Are you on a Kindle? I am on physical books. I'm on Kindles. I'm on my phone. I'm on audio books. I'm on like different formats. Are you doing audio and physical book like simultaneously? No, I don't. I can't. It all makes sense. This is not happening. That's how you read four books. You're 2Xing an audio book while you're reading. No, that's not what I'm doing. But so like the issue I've had is just like being way too addicted to my phone. Like I think this is a universal problem at this point in time.

1:15:51And I just as soon as a notification comes up, I get into panic mode. Like, oh, I have to answer it immediately or someone's going to hate me. But no, I put the bean timer on, the focus friend. My bean, you can name your bean. His name is Blorbo. My bean's name is Blorbo. And so Blorbo, the concept is that Blorbo is a radioactive bean that has been, like, injected into your phone. And he lives there now. And Blorbo's great passion in life is knitting. But Blorbo can't knit if you're on your phone and being distracted. So you put this little timer on, and then Blorbo knits. for the time that you are not on your phone.

1:16:30And when Blorvo is done, he has either knitted socks, if you're on the free version like me, or scarves, if you choose to pay or whatnot. And then depending on the amount of socks or scarves that Blorvo or your bean, whatever you want to name it, has knitted, you can decorate his little room. It's so nice. It's a little bean. I'm looking at the art, and it's like, it's so delightful. I should also say, disclosure, Hank Green is going to co-host Decoder next month. which also promo is going to go on to go next month. But this app is just like, it feels, it has like Animal Crossing vibes where it's just like kind of quaint and delightful and you just decorate stuff.

1:17:09Yeah, it's like Animal Crossing vibes mixed with a Pomodoro timer, which if you don't know, a Pomodoro timer is based on like the Little Tomato Kitchen timers. You go for 25 minutes of focus time on a single task, then you take a five minute break, you do that four times, and then you get a 15 minute break. It's like a productivity thing. I use it a lot. It helps me get started on projects I don't want to do. So that mix just really worked for my brain with reading. And so every morning now, I've become a morning person through sheer force of effort because no one can interrupt your morning. They can always interrupt and derail your evening.

1:17:46No one can interrupt your morning if you get up really early. My four-year-old wants a word. Well, true. But like, so my cat loves cuddle time on the couch in the morning. So I put Blurbo the bean timer on. I get the cat. I open up a book. And for 30 minutes to 45 minutes before work, I've uninterrupted reading time. That is so beautiful. And that is how I got four books this week. That is the single most zen thing I've heard in months. I have a question. What kinds of stuff can you decorate Blurbo's room with? So, you know, because I do it in such short time intervals and Blurbo is not the fastest knitter, I've only been able to buy a shelf.

1:18:30But you can buy a shelf. I think there's a chair. It's 75 socks for a shelf, but he just got a little pink shelf today. I'm very proud. Blurbo has a shelf to, you know, and it's about the process. because every time I take time to read, I'm helping Blorbo knit socks. Can he eventually put stuff on the shelf? Is there like little plants you can get? I think so. Honestly, his sock, I need to read more so that Blorbo can have his little socks. Okay. Because I'm not. Report back. Sorry, Hank Green. I have limited funds. I'm not buying the pro version for the scarves. So wait, why do you get scarves?

1:19:10The scarves, what's. I think scarves are a higher value. I've seen knitters get mad about this online. Because they're like, socks should be higher value than the scarves. And I was just like, you know what? Are either of you actual knitters? I tried and absolutely not. I cannot do it. It's just knit pearl. I can't do it. My friend is a great knitter. Not me. But yeah. Hank Green should know that. He should be more serious about the relative value of the knitting that this bean does. I'm here for Blurbo. I'm here for Blurbo to knit socks while I read and sit with a cat just purring on me every morning.

1:19:47It's honestly true. I'm here for Blurbo. The scientific accuracy concerns me. There's a bean in my phone. You're worried about the value of ours. There's a bean that lives in my phone who likes to knit. Listen. Listen. Okay. Allison, what have you got? Okay. I'll go with the Ricoh GR4. We're going to the camera world. Got a price. So it was announced earlier this year. This is a beloved camera nerds camera. It's been like 1 million years since they announced a new one. The GR3 was 2019. so it's been like coming and in the works this fall they announced the price and it is $1 ,500 the previous version was$900 so that's a bummer and sort of is giving me Sony RX1R vibes where is this all tariffs what the hell I know that's what Because I will, you know, the PS5 went up in price this week.

1:21:06So it feels a little bit like maybe this is a tariff thing happening here. But yeah, the RX1R also not updated in like a long time. 2015 was the last one. And then famously, Sony just out of the blue was like, we're making a new one. And it's five grand. I had not like heard much about the the GR3. I like did not know that was a camera. And then I think, you know, during the X100 craze, it was like the go to comparison. And it's fascinating because it really is like a different take on the same kind of idea where it is an APS-C sensor. So you've got a big sensor in a compact camera, but it's even more compact.

1:21:56You can actually pocket this thing. Well, it depends on your pocket, but more so than the X100. Yeah. But there's no viewfinder, which is a bummer. It's like a different style of shooting. but um you know it's like if you wanted a point and shoot that takes fantastic photos like this is this has really been the camera and at 1500 you're buying a very very different type of product yeah exactly i feel like it's kind of flown under the radar a little bit especially in the the shadow of the x100 um but it is really like a camera person's camera where it's kind of the one that you know back at deeper review would would just be like talked about and like oh yeah the rico gr is so nice you know the camera people love the ricos yeah it's it has that that following it's a smaller following than the fujifilm but i think that's probably it though because like the fujifilm i feel like a fujifilm is like you're not a photographer but you you kind of aspire to be and this is like you spend your day lugging around enormous lenses fiddling with all kinds of dials And you're like, thank goodness I can just like hit one button and take a good photo.

1:23:07Yeah. Like that, it's bringing it all down to like the size of something normal. Also interesting, I think what, like a couple weeks ago, Fuji raised their prices. Oh, I missed that. They experienced the same thing. Yeah, a couple weeks ago, they raised prices on some of their cameras. One of their cameras went up$800. This is absurd. Oh, God. Unfortunately, the X106 went up merely$200. So I think it's at$1 ,700 now, maybe$1 ,800. Can you buy one now? No, it's$1 ,800 now. I think they're like in stock-ish. I think like the last I checked on Reddit, it's like you're not waiting so long anymore.

1:23:50Okay. $1 ,800. So that thing's still more expensive. And also, this is what's wild about Fuji. So they announced their price tags like two weeks ago. And just this week, they're like, we're going to have to raise our prices again. Oh, my God. So at the end of the month, they're like, we're not and we're not telling you, but like, buy it now. Buy it now. These things are not going great for the camera companies. This is rough. Like, I mean, there's such uncertainty with the tariffs, right? Because we never know if they're on or if they're off or if they're fully on or off again because it's, you know, we need a crystal ball for that.

1:24:30But when they do hit, I really do feel like I'm being punched in the face. Like, these are significant price hikes. I mean, yeah. Right, right. The PS5 went up 50 bucks this week. I feel very righteous because I bought mine a couple of months ago. I was like, we got it. We got to get on this because this is only going up. So save 50 bucks right there. Every company just needs to be blaring tariff sale. It's our normal price. We cannot promise it will last. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very excited to see how this camera has improved because at this price, it's a very different prospect than it once was. But I think particularly given the craze around the X100s, speaking as somebody who owns one, I want to see more competition in this space.

1:25:29We need to see more of these APS-C bigger sensors coming into smaller cameras. It's great. I love it. I wish it wasn't$1 ,500. Same. It's a lot. Whoa, whoa. My God. That one got me. Nailed it. Okay. So Netflix is changing. And this is, I think, like, we've talked about this a little bit in the past, but there's sort of at the end of an era. I'm going to paint, like, a little bit of a picture here, right? A lot of their biggest series has been winding down, right? Squid Game just wrapped up two months ago. The final season of Stranger Things is about to hit. And we're starting to see this programming shift, right?

1:26:07So earlier this year, they started bringing episodes of Miss Rachel to the platform. Okay, all right. They just announced that Mark Rober, one of the biggest YouTubers, is getting a Netflix series. Also this week, the Duffer brothers who make Stranger Things and who previously had a big deal at Netflix to make a whole bunch of new shows and Stranger Things spinoffs announced they're going to join Paramount in a couple years. and so that to me tells me like their headspace is somewhere else right netflix for the longest time they were like had something to prove we're premium we can do great stuff and now the duffer brothers are like hey paramount's gonna give us a big sack of cash and they're like stranger things is pretty good but like okay right like a i i am curious like are you seeing this when you're watching netflix like what i feel like increasingly i like i subscribe for those big shows that are basically wrapped up and i have not started a new netflix series in a while so the difference that i'm seeing is that netflix is going hard on korean stuff like they are bringing so many k dramas over that i'm just like shit i can't cancel my netflix subscription where am i gonna get my k-dramas from and then you know then they had k-pop demon hunters like explode i i don't think netflix was prepared for k-pop demon hunters and what a massive phenomenon that's been but i was like maybe you should have like squid games did bonkos for you the glory was huge on your your platform as well um uh and then you know k-pop demon hunters is apparently destroying the the the billboard charts and the hon moon has been sealed or whatever uh so they apparently greenlit two more k-pop demon hunters movie possibly a live action and possibly a series oh my god they just pounced on that they just because it's the first netflix thing where the movie the the viewership has gone up over time so they're like holy guacamole, what do you mean?

1:28:26It's like, I still think it's like the number one movie on Netflix right now. This is really like the only Netflix movie that I've heard people discuss after the movie came out. I feel like everything else, you're like, did you see they're doing this? And then it's just done. Yeah. That's the extent of it. This just keeps going. And like Korea is all on K-pop Demon Hunters right now. Samsung was just like, we're going to get on this. And at Samsung Galaxy Impact, they were just blaring the soundtrack. Allison can attest. I went, oh, my God, K-pop demon hunters. No idea what I was listening to.

1:28:59And Vee explained it. Yeah. So to your point, I do think they're just going like, screw Prestige. We'll just go in on K-dramas, which are produced super cheaply overseas. Let's get in on the YouTubers, which have a built-in audience. Let's just, it's kind of just like what Google did. And they're just like, we're going to find different distribution. I think there's something there, right? It's like the traditional prestige stuff that's expensive. It's risky. And everyone makes fun of you when you do a bad job. But they can bump out however many reality shows they want. And actually, there's a pretty big audience for that stuff.

1:29:39And they don't all have to be winners. They can syndicate or bring in a ton of K-dramas. They can see if it's any good. They can make deals for this stuff. They don't take on as much risk. And I think the YouTubers, you're right. There's a built-in audience there. It just makes sense. And they're doing a lot of weird live stuff, too. I was watching everybody's live with John Mulaney, and I was like, I didn't know this was a thing. I signed up and said I could watch the first episode. I'm like, oh, this is crazy. They're doing a talk show with John Mulaney. It's going to be live. And then at the top of the first episode, he's like, we actually did this last year.

1:30:13I'm like, what? I had the same reaction. They've done this already? I had the same reaction. I was like, what? I didn't know they did this last year. It's not live. They're working on learning how to promote this, I guess. Yeah. But, like, to your point, Netflix feels different from what it used to be. It's clearly in a new era. It is figuring things out, right? They're doing, like, the big fights, too. There's a lot more here. And it's like the future shape of Netflix is very different. And as somebody who, I don't know, enjoyed quite a few of those, like, prestige series, they did. Well, you know, a little bummed, but...

1:30:51Listen, you can just watch 40 ,000 K-dramas. All of them are 15 episodes. They kind of drag around episode 10 where you're like, get on with it, but then it's done, and there's like 4 ,000 of them. Well, this is what I've learned. I need to watch K-pop Demon Hunters to prepare for K-pop Demon Hunters 2, 3, and live action movie. What I will say is the soundtrack is a banger. Yeah, I'll start there. All right. V, what have you got next? So this is a sequel from last week's Corporate Shenanigans. So we have a little mini corporate shenanigans sequel where Massimo, maker of medical tech devices, mostly pulse oximeters, is now suing U.S.

1:31:29Customs for allowing Apple to have a workaround from the Apple botch import ban. And I just think that is chef's kiss. I love corporate beef over patents. It's so, like, as a puny human who, like, worries about paying bills that I'm just like, these numbers that they're talking about are fake. But also the pettiness. I live for the pettiness of this. They're like, well, we can't get Apple. So we'll get you and your little dog too, U.S. Customs. This is so good. Because Apple, right, Apple went to customs and they're like, this is good, right? We snuck it in, we figured something out, and customs gave them the okay.

1:32:14And so they can't sue Apple, or maybe they're already suing Apple. They've already sued Apple like five times. They're mad at customs. And so I guess we'll sue customs? Yeah, they're like, we don't like this. Customs, you were out of pocket doing that. Also, we didn't find out about this until Apple announced it. What the heck? so it was just i i just looking at that and i'm like oh my show's on they're just lashing out yeah yeah i'm once again begging everyone to make these sensors useful like this is again this sensor was missing from the apple watch for a year and a half and no one complained no well like four people in my comments complained because i'm the wearable lady and so they're if they're going to complain to anybody it's going to be me but most people did not miss this censor whatsoever and you just have massimo being over here like this is our thing you can't do this and meanwhile i'm sitting here going like guys your patent expires in 2028 like this i guess this really is their their last hurrah like they've got to they've you know they gotta get it now or they've got nothing there i feel like they're at this point i was like we're in too deep We've made a stand.

1:33:32We can't let this. We can't, like, what was the thing they say at the end of Braveheart? Just like that's how I imagine them, just yelling the Braveheart thing, going into battle. They're like, for glory, or whatever my crappy Scottish accent is. But, you know, just that's how I imagine Massimo, just being like, blood oxygen. So, yeah. I'm happy for them. I'm glad they're continuing the beef. Allison, last week we decided, are these events shenanigans or are they serious? What is your read of the Mossimo situation? Maybe a little bit of both. I think it makes sense if they got to make the most out of this patent and they're just going to throw a fit with everybody and make it everybody else's problem.

1:34:16I think I'm with you where it's like they're dead serious, but it is absolutely futile. futile. They're going to get nowhere. Stupid. I mean, Apple has so much money. Nobody knows what Massimo is except for this. Apple will invent new court systems if it has to. Apple will be like, okay, bet. We'll find a different work around. Aside from this work, we have time. We have money. Bet. We're going to just not do this. So it's just like, I feel like they're just doing this on principle. They're like, we're going to stand on business, on blood oxygen, this thing that people do not care about extensively.

1:34:55And we are just going to beef until the sun. It's Kendrick Lamar energy. You got to respect it. Yeah. Like 2025 is the year of the hater. So I got to respect it. Yeah, it's good. OK, excited to see where this goes next and how many more lawsuits are filed before the patent expires in 2028. 20 ,000. Keep it locked on the verge. We will have nonstop wall-to-wall Apple patent coverage. That's our promise to you. Allison, take us home. What do we got? Okay, this is the most important news you'll hear all week. Chipotle is starting drone delivery. This is an article on a blog called Delish. and they're okay it's only in like dallas i think right now um but they're calling i know come on come on uh they're calling well it's a partnership with a company called zipline i don't know what that is they have drones um but they're calling it zapotle no yeah that i'm not on board with yes but can you imagine like chips and guacamole raining down from heaven literally it's it's like cloudy with a chance of burritos yes this this increases my chance of ordering chipotle like 10x like i absolutely and like you could you could door dash it or whatever but like knowing that it would come from the sky from a drone like no no other human would have to know that i am ordering a burrito at whatever hour it is i mean on the other hand all your neighbors can be like hey Allison I saw a small aircraft land in your yard like what was that important yeah oh you know UFO I I don't know um but yeah you you order just like in the Chipotle app it looks like um oh maybe you need a zip line app too I don't know what this is uh Chipotle staff place your meal in a zipping point and then a zip picks it up, takes off and hovers around 300 feet.

1:37:15And then it lowers your Chipotle bag to your, I don't know, front porch, backyard. It is a little gross thinking about my food just kind of sitting in my yard. But listen, I'm just imagining Tim Robbins in Shawshank Redemption. Just, it's rainy. He doesn't feel like cooking. And then he orders, this is a potlay. And he goes outside in the rain and goes on his knees and goes, El pastor burrito. Yes. And then it just like launches down from the drone into his mouth. That's my dream. Okay. Legitimately though, this is my question. Can this thing operate when like, you know, a little rain. Because if it's raining, I'm hungry.

1:37:57Last night it was storming. Yes. My fridge was empty. And I'm like, I'm going to the grocery store. And I'm like, I'm not ordering delivery. You can't order delivery. These guys are on e-bikes. That's not the right time. Oh, yeah. That is tough. If I can send a drone out, that drone might crash. But I would get a burrito if it didn't. You would get a burrito. Which is pretty good. There is a Chipotle in like a two block radius of me. It wouldn't have to go far. The burrito would not be that soft. They could throw it. They could just throw it to your front stoop. You know, yeah, yeah. That's the next step.

1:38:34But, you know, I think I get why they're doing it in Dallas and not New York City. Could you imagine everyone who's hungry in New York City getting their Chipotle burrito drone? And just, like, how do you deliver it to an apartment? Is the drone going to, like, fly outside your fire escape and throw the burrito? Okay, bad. You open the window and you grab it? Yeah. Yeah, like that. Could you just imagine that? That would be perfect. That would be something. Just like an army of drones with Chipotle burritos in New York City just descending like a swarm of burrito bees. If food delivery can go right into my window, I mean, that's the epitome of laziness.

1:39:17It's all over. It can't get better than that. I'm here. Screw it. Why are we not inventing this? We need to focus on the important technologies. Drone burritos. There is. So there is a limitation. It can carry orders up to 5.5 pounds. That's like half a burrito. Like that's not. Right. Like a Chipotle burrito. Those are hefty burritos. Okay. That is not going far. I've seen my husband order at Chipotle and that is weighing at least five pounds. It's a lot. Yeah. Okay, they should have started with a different restaurant. Chipotle was not the place for it. It's a little too heavy. Yeah. And that's it for The Verge Cast.

1:40:04Stay tuned. Allison is hosting on Tuesday. It's going to be a really good show. She's talking about cameras. Cameras? Is that right? Cameras and phones. More cameras. I love cameras. I love cameras and phones. If you like what we do here, the best way to support us is to get a subscription to The Verge at TheVerge.com. It's a very good website. We all work there. We'd love to hear your questions and feedback. Let us know what you want us to talk about. Email us at vergecast at verge.com or give us a call 866-VERGE-11. The Vergecast is a production of The Verge and Box Media Podcast Network. Our show is produced by Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer, Travis Larchuk, and Andrew Marino.

1:40:37We'll see you next week.

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