Google’s next big Pixel

25:29Any word on if this one is going to be better at that stuff? Do we have any, like, we've been saying since the jump that one of the worries of this design was that it would be more fragile. And that has clearly, I would say, proven out over time. No changes this time? No changes. Yeah, I'm very excited for the big watch. But, like, that's even more, like, surface area for it to be damaged. Right. So we'll see. All right. All right. Fair enough. All right. Well, we've got to take a break, but we have a couple more gadgets to get to. We'll be right back.

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28:21All right, we're back. We have more gadgets. And I would say these are the two that I am maybe most interested in. One for reasons I can't even explain, and then one for reasons that I think are very obvious. Let's do the Pixel Buds. Chris Welch, one of my running theories is that the Pixel Buds are like criminally underrated headphones and have been for a couple of generations now. What's the story with the newest Pixel Buds? They're smaller, lighter. the noise cancellation is said to be twice as good so google now has its own like tensor chip for earbuds just like apple has their own like silicon for the airpods now google has a tensor a1 chip which is in the new pixel buds pro 2 so the anc is twice as good the sound quality is said to be also much improved and that's like my main reason for not really being like a very big fan of pixel buds pro is that they sounded okay but if you buy the sennheiser or like the AirPods Pros or even Samsung's new Galaxy Buds Pro 3s, they sound quite a bit better.

29:15So I'm hopeful that Google has finally, you know, kind of made some strides there with the new ones. But yeah, they're smaller, lighter. They brought back the fin tip, which people were a fan of in the older Pixel Buds. So these will stay in your ears better during workouts. But on the whole, you know, same thing, same case. The case now has a speaker on the outside. So if you lose it, it'll make a noise. So some small quality of life improvements. But yeah, the main things are the much better anc and the sound quality which we'll see yeah i'm very curious to see how the sound quality it turns out because like at least for my purposes it's always been good enough yeah definitely not best in class but good enough and it was the the pairing was super easy i always found them more comfortable than most of the other ones i think just like they just fit my ears better for whatever reason and i always thought their noise cancellation was pretty good anyway they do a really good job with noise cancellation on mic performance we've tested them on the show and And they did really well canceling out noise as you're talking into them.

30:12So if they can vastly improve that again, that's pretty exciting. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, they're just AirPods for Android territory. And I think that is a useful and good thing. And frankly, every company is going to end up having those and that works fine. Now we get to the big news, which is the death of Chromecast. This is the real story here. I went on vacation. Google lost an antitrust trial and killed Chromecast. And it was just like, I don't know how I'm supposed to deal with this when I don't have a podcast on which to talk about this. So, Chris, give me the quick rundown both on the new thing that is coming out and the old thing that is dying.

30:49What's going on here? Yeah. So the new thing is the Google TV streamer. Quite a name. Terrible name, by the way. Just before we get into the awful, awful name. Chromecast had brand recognition, but now let's do Google TV streamer. This flows right off the tongue. It really does. What if we had more? Pixel streamer. pick that pick anything so it costs 100 bucks it's a box now it's not a dongle anymore uh so it's a set-top box it's it's nice it's pretty it's got like a built-in uh ethernet jack which is nice to have on streamers all the time but it runs the same like software as the most recent chromecast uh so you're gonna have all that it'll have like gemini ai features sure uh it's gonna be 20 faster than the chromecast people have always been like waiting for like a fast chromecast and so they claim that like the nvidia shield was their like main like goalpost here to reach i I don't think it's going to reach that.

31:37It's like 20 % faster than the four-year-old Chromecast with Google TV is like still not going to be a barn burner of a device. And it's like most of our comments were like, that's not going to get it done for me. I'm going to just go buy an Apple TV, yada, yada. But the Chromecast is dead. But the casting feature is still alive and well, obviously. So you can still cast to the box, do all the same stuff, but the name is now gone. Quick poll before I get it. How do all of you do your smart TV stuff? Like, V, what's your smart TV situation? Like when you want to watch Netflix on your TV, what do you have?

32:07I got two Apple TVs. Okay. Allison, what about you? We have a Samsung TV. We do all the built-in apps. Oh my God. That's so brave. No, we'll say, okay. We're going to come back to that because I think that I think this is the whole point of this device. Chris, what's yours? I mean, I have everything. So I've got the Apple TV, Fire, TV Cube, Roku Ultra. What is your like main when you're like not thinking about work and you're just like, I just want to sit down and watch something, which remote you grab? It's the Apple TV 4K. Okay. So if I were to like big picture, try and explain what Google is doing here, it seems like the thesis is, if you want just a simple kind of cheap, don't really worry about it way to stream shows, performance isn't amazing, but you just like need a thing that plays your shows.

32:54You kind of have infinite choice, right? Like your TV probably does it. You probably have a dongle that does it. You probably have a box that does it. Your cable company will happily give you one. Like there's a million ways to do it. And so if you want to differentiate and win, you have to do better. Right. And we've been in this weird space for the last few years where the only ones doing better have been the Apple TV and the Nvidia Shield, both of which are like old, outdated devices at this point, but both of which were so far beyond everybody else that they continue to be the only options.

33:26if you're like, I want my TV to be fast. And on the one hand, I think that the idea of let's compete at the top end and make them better and make people want to buy them instead of just the default thing that they have is very exciting. But I do, I kind of agree with our commenters in the sense that I'm not sure, at least from what we've seen so far, we'll have to test the thing and see that this is that thing. Like if Google had come out and been like, we have 5X to the performance of the Chromecast, it's going to blow your freaking mind through the back of your head. and it's$500. People would have freaked out.

33:58Yeah. But am I thinking about this the right way, Chris? Like, is that your read on the situation too? Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think like they're saying price is like their ceiling for like what they can do as far as like a device, which is fine. But even then, I think you could have squeezed some out. Just toss like a two-year-old Tensor in there, you know? Like what's the issue here? Like you've got your own silicon, like toss a Tensor G1 in there, you know, or whatever they are. And just, yeah, so like 20%, I mean, it's not nothing. It's got like twice the RAM, which should also help out quite a bit.

34:23But as far as like a speed demon, you know, this is probably not going to be quite that. We could see a new Apple TV this fall. So that would just be like Apple just kind of like lapping them again very quickly. So we'll see how that shakes out. Allison, is there anything here for you? Are you excited about this at all? I just. They're going for you, right? Like you're now the person who is not going to buy a Chromecast. And because your TV does it fine, they're trying to give you something else. Okay. You know what they don't have? is there's all the like 10 ,000 free, you know, ad supported channels on the Samsung TV.

34:57We have one called Ocean Vibes. And that's just plays when we turn the TV on is the best thing in the world. There's just like fish swimming around in coral reefs. And you just sit there and you're like, yeah, this is all right. So talk to me when you have Ocean Vibes, Google. all that is so diametrically opposed from the answer i was expecting from you i love it that's great that's fantastic fantastic outcome but yeah i mean and i think to some extent chris like the this this is the thing here right is if i'm google uh and i am curious what they've been telling all of you about the the ai stuff coming in general here because i'm very excited about the pixel screenshots feature which is like a sort of managed ai organized library of all the screenshots you take i think that's very smart but in general the idea here is like we're going to put lots of new power into these new devices dot dot dot ai uh and i don't know at least from what i've seen so far again it's monday as we're recording this the event is on tuesday i'm very curious to see if they can find a way to make a really compelling ai case for this stuff but with the tv streamer in particular i'm like okay you're giving me theoretically more power other than my apps launch faster which is meaningful to me but not to most people you can use gemini to make screen savers uh which is interesting because they see like how all the frame tv is doing so they're like you know they've got this whole ambient mode so gemini can make you open ocean vibes oh no no that'll be i don't want that i want real ocean i don't want your ai ocean vibes so there's that and also uh i guess they're gonna do summaries now so they already show you like the rotten tomato scores for movies but now it's gonna like us bring in content from across the web so it might be like here's what someone on reddit said about this show hopefully not that But, you know, we'll see.

36:46Oh, God. So that's the other thing is like summaries for everything that you're like seeing and browsing. But beyond that, you know, not not too much compelling, which kind of brings me back to like I'm very sad the Chromecast is gone because I continue to think the Chromecast was a really good idea because I think this might be an unpopular opinion. I have no idea how people feel. I think Google TV is like by a mile the best interface. Yeah, I like it a lot. It does a really good job of like, it's very content first, but it also makes getting to the apps easy. Apple is super app first. I think the Fire TV is mostly just trash.

37:22Roku is super app first. And I think Google TV does a pretty good job of showing you everything you would want to see relatively in one place. And so for me, I have a Roku TV and I bought an Apple TV that I just use instead on my Roku TV. So my Roku TV's one job is just to take me to my Apple TV because it is like an unusable interface on this trash TCL TV I bought at Costco a million years ago. That is probably true for many people these days. Yeah. Right. So I think if I'm Google, I'm like, OK, keep pushing at this idea of like a$30,$50 way to give you Google TV, which is better. And I feel like what Google is instead doing is saying, OK, we want to they're like splitting a weird difference between make it easy to get Google TV and make a really powerful box.

38:04it seems like they're kind of in a middle ground that i'm not super positive it's going to work for them yeah they're not going to make anybody happy it's like not quite the full speed right box and not the cheap thing that the chromecast was either so uh we'll see i mean i'm looking forward to checking it out you know if it's faster that'll be that'll make a big difference but yeah i love google tv like you david uh the ads aren't as in your face as roku or you know uh so there's that but uh yeah we'll see i'm excited to check it out it's shipping like last among all these devices in like late september so it's going to be a while before we get it in her hands, but it's coming.

38:35Yeah, it's going to be an interesting fall for a lot of that stuff. So, okay, any other announcements coming? Y 'all have gotten all the news, seen all the things. Any other newsy cleanup we should do here before we talk big picture? What is the future of Google and everything? No. Have any of you tried Pixel Screenshots? They showed me it very, very briefly. It seemed cool. They did a search for someone's Wi-Fi password that someone had sent a screenshot of. That seems to be the example every company shows. But it's a separate app, right? Yeah, it's a separate app. Okay. Oh, it's its own app.

39:06It's not like, I assumed it was like in the Photos app. Interesting. That's what I'm so curious about is like, that sounds great. We've got that feature over there. Like, how do you bring it all together? Is it going to be Gemini? Am I going to have to pay for a version of Gemini that's going to do all these things? I don't know. That's where I am with AI on Pixel phones right now. It's like, show it to me. My thing is, I was thinking about this recently. My go-to use case is, so we live maybe a mile down the street from the library, and I'm frequently walking past the library, and every once in a while, they put up a banner with the dates of the book sales that they're doing.

39:46and every single time I take a picture of the banner because I'm like, oh, I have to remember when the book sale is. And every single time it just goes into my camera roll and disappears, like all of those photos and screenshots and that kind of stuff does, where I'm like, oh, this is a thing I should buy. And then it goes into my camera roll and disappears. And so the idea of like, I can just sort of constantly tell my phone, this is the thing I think is interesting. And then it can make sense of all that for me is so compelling to me. And I think makes way more sense than all the recall stuff is like, all I have to do is tell it, remember this for me and it will do it like that is perfect but i think you're to your point alice and like how you integrate that with everything else makes a lot of sense because if i have to take a photo and then put it in the screenshots app i'm gonna forget to do that and i have now solved none of my problem so i think it's it's gonna be a really interesting like push and pull they're trying to figure out how do you make this not creepy but really seamless but not too in your face as you're trying to do other stuff which i feel like it's kind of the story of all things AI in Google right now.

40:43Yeah, that is the thing I want. I want to be able to look up the door code for the Airbnb without like digging through emails or logging into Airbnb or whatever. I don't need to put a hat on a picture of a bunny that I took. What do you mean? To be fair, you have been doing that nonstop for weeks. Which I have been. It's a blast, but honestly, it's where we're at, I think, with Apple intelligence, which is still, you know, in developer preview, blah, blah, blah. It's like, it's still missing that thing of like, what is going to tie it all together? And am I just going to be able to be like, Gemini, put the book sale on my calendar.

41:25Tell me if I have a conflict or something, or is it going to just be like, I don't know. I think the latter. Yeah. Based on the history of AI features. Yeah. I'm so nervous about it because I got, I'm doing the labs for the labs, like preview for Gemini and your Gmail, which they like finally integrated. And I was like, great, I'll search for this order number for my shoes. And it does its thing. And it's like, thinking it's like, there's no order number for your shoes. I'm like, this is, no, you had one job like it it was right there and like i tried it again later and it's it able to do it i don't know why it got caught up that time it's like it feels that one time for you and you're like why am i gonna try and use this again i'm not yeah it is really funny we're in this phase with so many of these features where like because i have this specific problem that these things can solve for me i'm willing to try any of them but the tech broadly speaking just isn't there and so like you try it twice and it doesn't work and it's like well that's pretty much that yep or you could get nagged by it oh yeah oh my god google is is just basically also kind of following samsung's lead and i forgot but they're adding ai suggested workouts to the pixel watch 3 based on like your metrics my suggestions are going to be like just do anything just stand up just just what if you just walked around for once in your life but but you know they were showing it to me and they They were like, oh, you know, you haven't really been pushing it in terms of cardio load and you took a rest.

43:01So why don't you do like a bunch of sprints? And it's just like, oh, get out of here. I mean, it's hard. It's hard. Building a training plan is hard. But that I was just like, oh, OK. If my Pixel watch tells me I'm going to throw it into the sea. Yeah. Wait, V, can we talk about the notification you got from a galaxy ring? This is just a little, little, little diversion into V's experience. I was about to say. So like I, you know, I'm sinking my ring this morning looking at the energy score and it's like, hey, you need to move around or you might start gaining weight. No. And I was like, excuse me, what?

43:33What? I ran three miles this morning. Go to jail. Wait, is that literally the words that it said? Or you might start gaining weight? Yeah. Hold on. Let me let me look at that. Absolutely not. Your active time is decreased compared to your usual. Insufficient activity may result in weight gain and other health issues. try standing up moving around and reducing your sedentary time and it's because i let the dumb ring die yesterday so it didn't it didn't basically like uh capture my three mile run yesterday too because you know i'd be out here doing 10 hours of workouts a week uh but you know just like it thinks i missed one day and it's like get up hoe move around the ai you might gain weight and i was just like yeah but what if i want it i'm trying to get jacked i want to gain weight because muscles are heavier so uh there's a lot of nuance and context with health that ai just completely shits the bed with it's like the worst possible combination too because it's like do you remember the the the carrot apps that used to like ruthlessly make fun of you all the time that was like their whole shtick they had like a a character who would be like oh what if you checked something off your to-do list today dumbass it's like if you're gonna do that and make it a bit of being mean to you, that I actually could get behind.

44:52If my Apple Watch is going to actively neg me, that's actually pretty funny and is a thing some people would find useful. But this concern trolling trend from wearables where it's like, oh, I'm so sorry, but if you don't do better, you're going to die potentially tomorrow. That's so embarrassing for you. It's like, screw you. Leave me alone. It's too heavily reliant on HRV, which is the proxy for your autonomic nervous system so it can tell whether like how strained you are. Dude, if I have a calf cramp, these things can't tell. These things have never been able to tell when I'm like injured. So it's sort of like, okay, you can just go away now.

45:34Like I'm not a big fan of AI and fitness. I get what they're trying to do because it is very hard to know what you should be doing and crafting a training program if you're new to it or if you have new goals, but this ain't it. I can't wait to see what it tells me my AI workout should be. It's just gonna be like run up a giant hill. I already do that, go away. Run up a giant hill. Or just say that, when you wake up in the morning, it's like, what's up V, time to run up a giant hill. Fine, I'm great with that. I'm running up my hill. Yeah, it's gonna be all Kate Bush on me. Love that. All right, we gotta take one more break And then I want to talk just for a few minutes about some like big picture Google stuff on the heels of the announcement.

46:16And then we'll get out of here. We'll be right back.

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48:02All right, we're back. So another year, another bunch of Google devices that I would say, by and large, seem to be very good. Kudos, right? Like this, this is whatever year, we're almost a decade into Google appearing to genuinely earnestly care about making hardware. I think for a long time, we were all skeptical if this is going to be a thing Google kept caring about for a long time. I think to its credit, Google has kept caring about it for a long time. Never say never with Google, but it feels like this matters to Google in a very real way. What I still wonder and what seems to be true is that Google has not made any kind of like mainstream dent as a hardware company yet.

48:43I think ironically, like the Chromecast was probably the most successful piece of hardware Google ever made. It was a huge hit, especially at the beginning because it was cheap and it worked really well. And there's really nothing since then that feels like a sort of gigantic mainstream winner. Like there is still very much Apple and Samsung, especially in the United States, and then like gigantic gap down to Google. I would argue that the Pixel Watch is actually kind of the opposite. Like, I think Samsung is hurting a little bit and they're having to actually bring up their game a little. And because the Pixel Watch was wildly popular when it first came out to the point where Samsung was like, oh, I got to do things.

49:22Here's a copycat Apple Watch Ultra and a ring. So, you know, I think that's surprisingly one area that it's doing pretty well in. But, you know, smartwatches are kind of bifurcated into iOS and Android at the moment anyway. So it didn't have to really compete with Apple at all because people on Android can't get an Apple watch. It only really had to compete with Samsung, which is weirdly its partner in Wear OS land. But it's kind of been eating Samsung's lunch for a little bit because it's I don't know, it's interesting. They're doing weird, interesting stuff there. And it's kind of ecosystem-y in a weird way.

49:58Yeah, I mean, I think the Pixel Watch is actually is a good example. And it does seem like, at least on that front with the first one, I remember people being so excited just about the way it looked. That it was like, this is the first smartwatch that doesn't sort of scream technology at you. And that was a big win for Google. So maybe that's one of the answers to my question, which was going to be, do we see anything here that feels like it has kind of breakout potential? I think I'm maybe the most bullish of the four of us on the possibility that the Fold could be a winner. I think at$1 ,800, there's a pretty big and low cap on how big a winner it can possibly be.

50:32But from the stuff that you've seen and, you know, y 'all have been testing and talking to folks about these things for years now. Do we see anything that's sort of a possible kind of game changer in the Google hardware business? Screenshots app. I don't know. It really comes down to like past years have always been, oh, the camera's great, which it still is. like people know the pixel camera is great like that's its like main thing but this year it feels like all this ai stuff like if it works it's going to be great you know like if it doesn't then it's going to be meh like i see pixels out in the world like i think they're selling some they are selling a few so i think like you know they've got a base of customers but it's like how do you get them to upgrade because like hardware is like all the same year over year like all these like pixel 9 pro and pixel 9 it's like there was some like tensor g4 benchmarks it's like barely faster than last year's chip.

51:17So like, it's not going to be like that. That's not why you're going to upgrade. You're going to upgrade for Gemini potentially for like some of these new camera software features. It's like software, software, software this year. And so like, if the screenshot app works, like that's going to be great. And if it doesn't, then it's, then I'm going to buy the Fold. And for the next five years, that'll be my phone because I can't afford an$1 ,800 phone. I was going to say, and you are historically representative of people who buy smartphones. So that makes perfect sense. Exactly. No, I mean, the AI thing, I think, is a really interesting point because the bet from all of these companies really is that they can take a bunch of kind of little AI things, whether it's in the camera or in the productivity stuff or in some of the wearables, and that all of that adds up to something that is kind of a tiebreaker to other devices.

52:04And I feel like, Allison, this has been a theme of a lot of the coverage you've been doing recently is like, does all this AI stuff really add up to anything? And I'm curious how you feel. Obviously, we have to review all these things. There's still lots to be seen, and this is all changing really fast. But do you have an early read of like, is there a kind of whole greater than the sum of its parts in the AI story here? I wish I did. This is just one of those like, I feel like you got to live with the phone a little bit to see if it. I think, you know, we all bought a Chromecast because it solved a problem.

52:35We're like, this is incredible. It's 20 bucks and you just plug it in the back of your TV. I don't see anything like that, you know, like in the Pixel phone series right now. Gemini could be that thing if it's if it really could, you know, bring all the AI pieces together and make your life easier. But I think we're going into this this ecosystem era is really going to like we're just going to drill down in it because so many of these things are going to be wrapped up in your Google One subscription or your Apple subscription. subscription and totally agree if you want smart siri you need the the expensive iphone and probably an apple subscription plan at some point i'm nervous about um ai subscription hell i think it's just the whole ambient computing thing like i think completely to your point it's going to be the whole ecosystem play because you know the pixel i'm just you know wearable ladies so of course i think in wearables but like the pixel watch when it came out they were like this works for anyone with any phone.

53:39And just increasingly year by year, more and more features are just going to work better if you have a Pixel phone with your Pixel Watch. So like this year, it's going to be Pixel recorder app on the watch. It's going to be seeing your doorbell feed. And it's just going to be one of those things where I think it's just what do my gadgets play well with? And that's how we win dominance. So if the Pixel Watch is great and it works with other Pixel hardware, That's Google saying, fuck it, Samsung, because who uses smart things? Honest to God, I think that's like kind of what they're doing and why they just go ambient computing when you're not watching every once in a while.

54:19Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Well, and I think that's what's been so sort of backhanded about Google's entire hardware strategy over the years is that like the reason people end up in the Samsung ecosystem is because they buy Samsung phones. And so then they're forced to use smart things. Google is trying to convince you that there is some like essential Googliness that is worth buying into the ecosystem. And it has just always felt like they needed the one hardware victory to get there. And it's like people want the gadget and then they buy into the software. And Google is trying to do that backwards, which I think is really interesting, but doesn't really seem like it has worked in a huge way.

54:58Obviously, time will tell and the reviews will be really interesting. And I'm like, I think it's not crazy that the pixel fold might be a way a lot of people actually end up in this ecosystem, because I think there is like latent interest in this stuff. All right. We all need to go. You guys have things to do and phones to touch and more watches to wear, I'm sure. Are we excited? Happy times? What's the are we are we bullish or bearish on Google heading into this fall? This feels like I'm a little like overall kind of like, yeah, it seems fine. But that seems to be where we are in so many gadgets this year.

55:28optimistic with reservations. Yeah. Yeah. I'm surprised because I was expecting nothing but a hardware refresh. And then they're like, wham, hit me in the face with all the software. So I'm curious to see how the software works. My smart home is mostly Google based. So if this Pixel Watch works with my smart home in a meaningful way, I'm just going to be really shocked. I like it. Yeah. The Pixel Watch 3 being the star is not something I would have had on my bingo card. Me neither. I'll take it. All right. Thank you all. Super fun. Appreciate you doing this as always. Thank you. Bye. All right.

56:05That is it for the Vergecast today. Thanks to all the folks who came on. And thank you for listening. We have tons of coverage of the whole event, all of the new devices, everything on theverge.com. I'll try to put as much as I can in the show notes. But actually, we've been covering this Google stuff for months now. The leaks have been really fascinating. So actually, go back and look at the way this stuff has trickled out over time. It's been really interesting. And I have this odd feeling we're not done hearing what Google is up to this year. I have no evidence to base that on, but I think it's true.

56:35Anyway, as always, if you have thoughts, questions, feelings, or foldable phone specs that you think are more important than I'm realizing, you can always email us at vergecast at the verge.com or call the hotline 866-VERGE11. We love hearing from you. We love hearing all of your thoughts and questions about all things tech. I'm still looking for some tiny tech mysteries. We've gotten a few. We're working on some fun stuff, but keep them all coming. This show is produced by Andrew Marino, Liam James, and Will Poore. The Verge Cast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

57:05Neil, I, Alex, and I will be back on Friday to catch up on just, again, a truly crazy few weeks in the news. We have a what is a photo apocalypse. We have a bunch of AI stuff going on. Lots to talk about. We will see you then. Rock and roll.

57:28Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S. From deaf and power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf.

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