How the low-vision community embraced AI smart glasses

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33:38We're back with Mike Buckley. He's the CEO of Be My Eyes. It's a service that uses AI and live volunteers along with smart glasses and phones to provide assistance to users who are blind or visually impaired. Thank you so much for joining us here on The Vergecast. And one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you was smart glasses are a huge rising trend in tech, wearable tech especially, and I cover wearable tech. But one of the things we don't talk all that much about is how it could be an assistive technology as well. So I was wondering if you could give our listeners kind of a brief introduction into what Be My Eyes is and how you found yourself with the company.

34:21Awesome. Thanks for having me. So Be My Eyes was started by a Danish furniture craftsman who was losing his eyesight. And he was pissed off because there were times when his family and friends weren't around to kind of help him with sight needs as his eyesight was deteriorating. So he invented this app whereby through one touch of a button, someone who's blind or low vision can be seamlessly connected to a sighted volunteer on a one-way video, two-way audio call, right? So the sighted volunteer can see outside the back of your smartphone, and that volunteer can help with anything. Like, is this the tomato soup?

35:00Does this shirt match my pants? Am I at the right airport gate? And after the first week of the apps launch, there were 10 ,000 people on it. And if you fast forward to today, there are about 900 ,000 blind and low vision users and astonishing 8.8 million volunteers, which I think is the largest online volunteer army in the world and the second largest volunteer army period after the Red Cross. And we operate in 150 countries in 180 languages. And what I like to say about this is Hans, our founder, he successfully merged technology with human kindness, right, to solve a societal need. And if you fast forward from the inception in 2015 to about 2022, we started talking a lot about artificial intelligence under a belief that AI could have very serious benefit for people who are blind or have low vision in terms of visual interpretation.

35:59And so we were an alpha launch partner of OpenAI way back in the spring of 2023, which seems like 10 years ago at this point, given all the AI developments. Oh, it really does. But now we do more than 3 million AI sessions a month of visual interpretation where the blind or low vision consumer can literally take a picture of just about anything and get very fast interpretation. fascinatingly even though the ai sessions have gone through the roof we've also seen that the calls to human volunteers have also gone up and so there is this thirst i think still for human connection as well as a thirst for consumption under an ai model and and as long as the user kind of has a choice of either either kind we like that but that's what be my eyes is and all of that is free for the blind or low vision consumer.

36:51And we pay the bills by using this product and selling it to enterprises for great customer service for blind and low vision consumers and for workplace accessibility. So people can use Be My Eyes at work or people through our app can call a bunch of our customers through one touch of a button and get seamlessly connected to customer service, but with the benefits of AI or enhanced video. So that's how we pay the bills. That's pretty fascinating that users can choose between whether they want to interact with an AI in a particular circumstances or with humans. Have you gotten any feedback about what scenarios they might prefer one or the other?

37:31You know, it varies. It's very individual-based, but there are a couple of common themes. Like, I talked to a woman who said she's using the AI in her house more often when she hasn't cleaned up, right? because she doesn't want someone to see like that her kitchen's messy. You know, I think that there's also a, you know, a group of people who are blind and low vision who just appreciate the human interaction. One of the unfortunate realities of people with sight loss is that there are higher rates of loneliness and higher rates of depression and higher rates of mental health. And so having that human connection can be quite meaningful for people sometimes.

38:09I think there is also like Like sometimes people can be better than AI and other times AI can be better than people, right? Like if you call me up and ask me about, you know, something super technical, you know, a router's broken, I'm probably not going to be very effective. But the AI will probably have an answer really quickly. And so I think that there's a lot of trial and error going on and most consumers are using both. It's very nice to hear, actually, that the volunteers are still requested and wanted because the narrative with AI often is that it's one, scary, two, that it's going to take jobs away.

38:47And I mean, these are volunteers, but it's still people who meaningfully are giving up their time to do something nice. So it's very kind of reassuring to hear that this isn't maybe a case where it's either or, it's either and. Is that the right way to say it? like it's an and situation, not an or situation. As of right now, yes. I mean, who knows really what the future holds for us, right, as these systems become more sophisticated. And I think it's just about every day now where we hear about someone interacting with AI as though it was human and that's, you know, good or bad. I'm going to leave the value judgments to somebody else at the moment.

39:26But we did, like, I remember telling our board of directors that we may put the kind of volunteer product out of business through the adoption of AI. Hasn't happened, but as of right now, it is an and rather than an or. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, if I wanted to ask someone if something matches, like if my shirt matches my pants, I think I would trust a human a little bit more than an AI. But well, I guess we'll see how that evolves. But so one thing I've... Just as long as you're not asking me about fashion. You know what? Fair. But let's say, you know, this really kind of depends on a camera, right?

40:03So I'm just curious, you mentioned that obviously this works with a smartphone. That's a pretty mobile device that's easy for people to carry around. It's super ubiquitous. Are there any other types of gadgets that this works on? Look, of course, smart glasses, right? It's a huge and growing market for us. And think about this from the perspective of the blind or low vision consumer. If I have to interact with my world just to get basic visual information, that's very different than using glasses. What are the glasses? It's hands-free, right? That's power, right? That's power for the blind or low vision consumer.

40:44Imagine if you're going to an airport and you have a piece of luggage in one hand and a guide dog or a cane in the other hand as a blind and low vision. What the hell do you do with your phone? Right? That's not a good experience. So using glasses or a wearable of any kind, but obviously the Ray-Ban Meta glasses have been a complete game changer for so many members of the blind and low vision community. Those glasses are power and freedom, independence, speed, right? for a large section of humanity. And by the way, the second you think about, oh, you hear blind and low vision, it's not about you.

41:21It's about all of us, right? There are over 300 million people globally who are blind or have low vision. And the World Health Organization indicates that this number may double by 2050 because of macular degeneration, increased rates of diabetes, aging population, growing population generally. And so the fact that you can have a wearable that frees up your hands is a true game-changing step function, right? So we have a very strong belief that smart glasses and working with Meta will not only help for sort of personal and human use cases, but also for employment use cases. And we're about to start a pilot with a Fortune 20 company on this front very soon.

42:03I cannot use their name yet though. Okay, well, you know, thank you for the hint. We'll keep an eye out for that. But, you know, I actually am someone with very poor eyesight, like thanks parents and genetics. But like I have extreme astigmatism and even I am at the point where I'm starting to use accessibility settings on my phone just so I can read things easier. So I don't I don't remember a life without glasses. To me, having smart glasses seems like a very natural evolution about it. So I guess one question I have was, was it always obvious to you that smart glasses was kind of the next kind of frontier for your product and your service?

42:43Because, you know, we tried smart glasses 10, 12 years ago with Google Glass, and that was a big no-no for a lot of people. So just curious, with the Meta Ray-Bans, was that a really obvious partnership to you? Were you guys like, hey, we heard you're making this. Why haven't you contacted us? I can't say it was obvious because you and I lived through glass holes, right? We remember that. At a certain point, though, we kind of saw people in our community starting to use these things before we even had an integration. And there was some hope expressed. So, no, it wasn't obvious, but it became apparent over time.

43:24And how the partnership came about was, you know, I contacted Meta, and I was not really having success. But then finally, I got through to Andrew Bosworth, the Meta CTO, and he got it immediately, and he helped make it happen. And so, we contacted them, but to his credit, Andrew Bos said, yeah, we have to do this. And it's been a great partnership ever since. So how does the integration work? So we basically have built things on the back end, engineer to engineer at both companies where you can actually call a human volunteer through the metaglasses. And we're talking about more advanced integration now of AI functionality, customer service, group calling, a whole bunch of other things.

44:10Again, under that belief that this is power for the community, number one, right, and independence. And second, that the consumer needs to be given a choice as to how they want to access visual information. That may be AI sometimes, or it may be a human sometimes. So we're looking at enabling both. That's pretty cool. So fun fact, it wasn't necessarily an obvious use case for me either. I was actually testing the live AI and the multimodal AI beta when it came out earlier this year. And I was kind of, I have to admit, I was a little flippant. I said something along the lines in my write-up about how, like, okay, who needs this Captain Obvious description?

44:54Because even though my eyes are bad, I can still see with very strong corrective lenses. And I actually heard a lot from our readers and people in the blind and low vision community, which is one reason why I'm reaching out now, to be like, actually, this is life-changing for us. This is game-changing for us. Don't discount us here. So this is my penance talking to you guys. I'm just curious how you view something like multimodal AI from the sense of it creates its own challenges, right? It's very power intensive. It's very draining on the battery. Have you guys put any thought as to how you're going to adapt your particular services to accommodate something that's so new and so power hungry and, you know, is possibly prone to hallucinating things?

45:46Like, how do you approach that challenge as well? Look, full speed ahead and you have to give the consumer the choice, right? Like, there's no doubt that live interpretation of one's environment is powerful, important, and necessary. That doesn't mean it's perfect, right? And whether it's a hallucination or whether it's my favorite test to do with live AI is if you hold your hand out and then count your fingers down and ask it to tell you what's going on. It doesn't tell you it's counting. So there's still latency, right? There's a lag between what the camera is able to interpret and what the AI is able to interpret in terms of what's going on.

46:25But the future is really, really bright here, right? Real-time will eventually become actually real-time, which will have transformative power in terms of use cases. Think about navigation. Think about getting around an airport. Think about obstacles as you walk along in the street. All of that is coming. I mean, Meta has already demoed Orion glasses, which is a whole separate and wild capability. But combining that with kind of live AI, I think is, again, potentially transformative. I would also say that as a sighted person, I had the same initial reaction you did about, oh, what do I need kind of the live interpretation?

47:07And then I was wearing my Meta glasses when I was walking around the city with a bunch of historical landmarks. And I just kept saying, hey, Meta, what is this? And it told me what it was. And I said, what's the historical significance? Tell me more about the year or the architect or the artist. And it was lovely. And it was lovely to have my phone in my pocket and not be searching around for information that way. And so I do think that we're literally at the cusp, the very early stages of exploring the utility of this technology. Yeah, for sure. And it seems like there's a lot of different takes on smart glasses.

47:47Obviously, I think for your service to work, it requires a camera. But I guess, do you think that the smart glasses in general, provided they have a camera in there, that could be the kind of ideal form factor for your tech? And are there other companies you're kind of thinking about working with that you can talk about? Look, yeah, it's certainly plausible that this will be the form factor of wearable that wins, right? Who knows? But like, you know, what if I have a necklace that can do the same thing and I don't want to wear glasses all the time? Like maybe that's going to win. Like, you know, there were all these rumors about would Apple or somebody else put a camera in the earbuds?

48:35I don't think that's happening anytime soon, but it's kind of interesting conceptually, right? But then I have to have something in my ears all day. Is that what I want to do? So I don't think we really know, you know, the form factor that's going to win out at the end. I will say that in the current market, glasses are the best, right? And Meta has the best product. Now, is Google going to come? Is Apple going to come? Are there like eight startups that are working on this too? Sure. And who knows what like Joni Ive and Sam are going to build over at OpenAI, right? Although people are suggesting they don't think it's glasses, but who knows?

49:12I do think that in the near term, the market for the people in the community that we represent, the blind and the low vision, it's certainly the best form factor and has an incredible potential. And of course, you know, we're willing to work with just about anybody and everybody, but I will always have a soft spot for Meta because Meta said yes to us and they worked with us. And by the way, they did that, you know, without asking for a lot of credit and without like trumpeting it in a way that was kind of artificial or let's just say meta put in a lot of human hours and doing this while no one was looking.

49:50I feel like you are right that it was pretty low-key in terms of the overall overarching messaging because, for better or worse, we are always kind of catering to the mass market. And this kind of feels a little bit like an oversight. But I do think, you know, this was kind of a use case that I saw mentioned for Android XR in the Google I.O. keynote. Was that something that you walked to? Have you seen like other companies talking about this to you guys? Have you seen like any increase in outreach from people interested in this technology? Or is it just mostly been this one main partnership so far?

50:33No, I mean, it's a growing market and we've been contacted by everybody on some level, you know. And so, of course, we've talked to Google and we've talked with Apple for years about a whole host of things. and there are some integrations that we have on the Apple Vision Pro. And it suffices to say, we're getting more calls than ever, which is great. I think it's going to be interesting to see if what company or group of companies solves some of the problems that you're talking about, right? Whether it's battery life, right? Whether it's small form factor, getting the cost down to a point where it's really great.

51:08Like part of the remarkable thing about the Meta Ray-Bans is that the price point is not absurd, right, relative to a phone. And if you look at like other assistive technology, you know, even the Google glasses back in the day, they're often thousands of dollars. And here's the reality. 70 % of people who are blind or have low vision are either unemployed or underemployed. So when you start talking about$2 ,000 or$2 ,500 for a device, it's over. It's not going to work. But if you have a$300 device or a$330 device that also doesn't charge you monthly for kind of AI costs, that's a big deal, right?

51:52And I can foresee a future and a not too distant future where a government or a social service will subsidize the cost of that hardware because they know it provides substantive value to its citizens or to help facilitate employment and power and independence that we've talked about before. And so I think it's coming. Yeah, I mean, that would be wonderful if that was the case. Like even I know in a bunch of wearable tech, sometimes they are HSA or FSA eligible, and that really just helps with the accessibility and for people who might need it. But along that thought process, you know, I always say that accessible design is universal design because, like, it's a really important thing.

52:32I think we as tech reviewers could be a lot more thoughtful about that when we evaluate products. But from someone who is deeply in that space of kind of developing accessible tech, thinking about how accessible tech needs to go into the future as well, I'm wondering, like, what would you like to see improved? We do happen to have a lot of people who are in the right rooms and the right spaces to make those improvements listening to this podcast, I should think. So, like, what do you think would be, like, massive areas of improvement that could really make a huge benefit, like, whether it be design, engineering, just, like, how we're thinking about developing, like, smart glasses or any other type of wearable device with a camera for this particular type of technology?

53:18I think it's the thing that you alluded to is that it has to happen at the design stage. I'll give you a perfect example of this. Years ago, whether it was malls or banks or airports, everybody rolled out some touchscreen kiosk, right? Whether it was an ATM or a hotel thing. Do you know who that sucks for? Someone who's blind or low vision. It's completely useless. Ah, yeah. Yeah.

54:17When we were an early partner with OpenAI on the first GPT models, we brought 19 ,000 blind and low vision beta testers to that effort who gave constant feedback and iteration on the descriptions that they were getting from the models, which helped the OpenAI scientists and engineers further refine how those models work, making them better for everybody. So I think those investments pay off not only in trying to capture the market of the disabled consumers, but also making the product better holistically for a broader segment of society. Yeah, I think I was talking with my MetaContact recently, and they mentioned that one of the options now that's possible, I still have to test it with the MetaGlasses, is that you can now opt into much more descriptive descriptions from the AI.

55:08So like maybe me as a sighted person, I don't need super detailed descriptions. But if I am part of the blind or low vision community, I can opt for really detailed descriptions of that. And I think, you know, that's like a really small tweak that I know I wouldn't have thought of if I didn't invite underserved communities into the room while talking about design. But to think about what you just said, like that could be really useful for a sighted consumer as well. Like having a toggle switch that controls the depth of information that I get, like how much. Like if I'm out and about, I might want like a three-second answer to questions.

55:48But if I'm on vacation or I'm touring a museum or whatever else, I might want to switch all the way on the other side because I want robust information. And so that's a really great example of how thinking about the design elements of the robustness of description and characterization can benefit not only the blind or low vision consumer, but anybody. I guess I'm curious if there's any parting thoughts from your experience or stories that have been shared with you from actual people using this technology that, you know, I think the vast majority of our listeners, myself included, are sighted people.

56:24So, like, what are some things that we should be thinking about when we are thinking about how we evaluate this tech in our daily lives? You know, everybody comes at a consumer product or anything from their own lens. But I mean, in terms of the people that you reach every day, I think it's good for everybody to think about the fact that the world and the people within it and their needs are pretty diverse, right? And so it's sometimes hard to think outside of our own little bubbles. I know I'm guilty of it. But I can tell you that from the perspective of the community that we work with, the blind and low vision consumer, I try to avoid hyperbole because there's plenty of that in the AI world going around right now without me adding to it.

57:09But I get two emails a day anytime I run into someone at a conference talking about the fact that the glasses and the experience of Be My Eyes and AI combined with those meta glasses is literally life changing. Don't take my word for that. Talk to the blind or low vision consumer. But I have stories about like people taking the train for the first time on their own or getting around an airport. There was a story actually, there's a guy named Robbie and he posted about it publicly so I don't feel like I'm outing him. He works for the BBC and he read a book to his two-year-old daughter for the first time using those glasses and be my eyes.

57:54Like, how cool is that? So think about the things that we all take for granted and then think about Robbie for the first time as a dad, as a blind father reading to his daughter. I just, I don't, it doesn't get any better than that. When you think about like kind of human impact, right? And the benefits of this technology. Like there's a million reasons to be wary of AI, right? And be fearful of it. But like, I'm pretty sure that there are a bunch of reasons also to embrace it and champion it. And that story of Robbie reading to his daughter is probably my favorite. I that's a really lovely story and honestly I test a lot of AI stuff and some of it can feel very dystopian so thank you honestly for the reminder that you know there are creative uses that can help people genuinely lead better lives that maybe to your point are not steeped in the hyperbole of this is going to change everything but not give concrete examples of real life examples of how it could.

59:02So, man, that's, it's really lovely to hear that. So thank you so much for taking the time. Yeah, no, don't worry. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Okay, so we've got to take one more break, and then we're going to take a sexy, spicy question from the Vergecast hotline. Maybe don't listen to this in an office. Anyway, be right back.

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1:01:14All right, we are back. Let's get to the hotline. As always, the number is 866-VERGE11, and the email is vergecast at theverge.com. We love all your questions, and we try to answer at least one on the show every week, so let's get into this week's. And for this week, I have my lovely colleague, Mia Sato, on, and we are going to answer a little bit of a spicy question about smart glasses. Roll the clip. Hey, David. I've got a question about smart glasses. I haven't heard y 'all talk about this yet in this way. I know that with, like, the wristband, Like the necklace that like listens to you. There's ways to be like, oh no, I'm going to mute it so that you can hear this private conversation.

1:01:59But like glasses see things. But also I need the glasses to see. So I don't know. Maybe this is too sensitive for the verge cast. But I have a wife. And sometimes she and I like doing things. And I like being able to see her when I do those things. But if... She won't have sex with me if I've got the camera glasses on. But if I take them off, then I can't see her. Huh? So, like, are we going to live in a world where if you have smart glasses, do you have to have a pair of normal glasses? Or your wife won't have sex with you? Like, I don't know what that world looks like. And at that point, why have the glasses in the first place?

1:02:48But anyway, I cannot be the only person that has thought about this. But also, like, when I go to the bathroom, is Meta just going to have, like, a bunch of pictures of, like, me going to the bathroom? I don't like that. And if Eli Patel hears this, he's going to say, well, you do take four cameras into the bathroom with you every time. And I say, yeah, that's true. Like, an AI isn't training on it, right? Like, I film cameras out on all the time, right? Anyway, please help me. I want to get smart glasses, but I also like having sex. Rock and roll. Amazing. Incredible question. Anyway, I asked you to be my partner answering this question because you write so many smart things about how technology shapes culture.

1:03:41And I feel like this is directly on that intersection. And, you know, this is my beat. And I've written some stuff about wearable etiquette as well. So, yeah, I feel like we are the most equipped people at The Verge to answer this question with loving, kind empathy. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So, listener, I don't know your name. Maybe that's better for the best. But I guess I'm curious, first of all, what your wife thinks. Like, is this a conversation that y 'all have had about where in the house is appropriate to wear the glasses versus where isn't? That would be my first thing is just like get a temperature check.

1:04:23Because I do think that there are some things that are intimate enough that like you might want a disconnected life there. Right. Like you said, going to the bathroom, maybe when you have sex with your wife. other times. Because I think the reality is that even when companies say we have these great security protocols, your data is safe, there have been instances where moments that you wouldn't want a stranger to see are leaked, are revealed in some ways. And we can get into that and talk about those examples. But to me, one is like, ask your wife what she thinks. But also, I feel like smart glasses are not for the bedroom.

1:05:11Just point blank, period. Super fair. So like, last year when the smart glasses and the Vision Pro were getting kind of some buzz, I wrote a piece about like a wearables primer etiquette. And I interviewed Emily Post's grandson about it. And one of the things that he mentioned is exactly what you're touching on, which is like having these conversations like this is definitely a conversation you need to broach with the wife and like talk about what boundaries they're comfortable with from like a gadget perspective i can tell you there's an off button on the meta ray-bans specifically so you can just turn it off uh but like the the interesting thing about these glasses and how they signal privacy when there's video recording or photo taking is that there's a little LED light.

1:06:01So you'll see the LED light when that's happening. So that is a visual cue and a signal. But maybe, you know, I don't want to kink shame. People do, true, a number of acrobatics in the bedroom. I don't know where hands are being put. There could be ostensibly a situation if they're on that they could accidentally take a picture or start video. Or like you forget to turn them off. Or you forget to turn them off before it's happening. There's meta AI in there. If you say anything that sounds like, hey, meta, I don't know what your wife's name is, but what if it's Greta? And you trigger the AI and the AI just starts doing something.

1:06:45Like, you know, one, you need to have the conversation. And two, I also agree that there are just certain spaces, public versus private, where maybe you want to like consciously draw a line between the technology and your life. Like, I just think that's healthy digital hygiene in general. And, you know, you don't have to throw away your old glasses when you get the smart glasses. You can just keep them. Well, yeah, another part of this question that I wanted to pick up on was like the idea that you shouldn't have two pairs of glasses, which I completely disagree with. I think you actually actively should have multiple pairs of glasses because like, what if you break some?

1:07:24What if you just want to switch up your look? Like, I am a recent glasses wearer. I'm not wearing glasses right now, but, like, I have, like, four pairs of glasses because sometimes one pair looks better with what I'm wearing or, like, some, like, fit on my head differently and I need something different, you know, depending on the day or depending on the activity. So I would say, like, it's totally fine to have two pairs of glasses. I get that it might be annoying to switch back and forth, but, like, maybe you just leave a pair of normal glasses on your nightstand or, you know, in the drawer or whatever.

1:07:56I think it's fine to have two pairs of glasses. I am a lifelong glasses wearer. I got my first pair. Again, I'm also wearing contacts right now. But I got my first pair when I was four. And the first thing that I learned was you must always have a backup pair of glasses. Yeah. Because you don't know when one's going to break. And the thing about these metaglasses is that you do have to put them in a case to charge. So it's not like you can wear them 24-7 anyway, not that you would want to. So also, if it's just going to affect your performance because you got them on, they're heavier than normal glasses as well.

1:08:30Not as aerodynamic. They're not as aerodynamic. And again, no king shaming. I don't know what you're doing in there. I don't know what acrobatics are required or whatnot. So have a second pair of glasses always. Yeah. And I would actually say that to anyone who's thinking about smart glasses. Have a pair of dumb glasses on hand. You don't always want to have an AI coming with you everywhere for everything. Right. And I feel like this example in this question is like, in my opinion, too intimate to even like risk it. There have been cases where like Roombas have recorded people in their homes without them realizing like on the toilet.

1:09:11Like that's like a real thing that has happened. And then I don't think that in that case it was like publicly released, but people working for Roomba or working, you know, contractors or whatever did have access to those images. Like this is a thing that happens. And in my opinion, like there are places that are just a little too intimate for tech companies to have a seat at the table. Like, you know, for example, like for me, I don't do any digital journaling. That is like pen and paper. 100%. I'm with you on that. I also don't do any digital journaling at all. I'm not doing the Apple journal thing.

1:09:46I don't want them to know my thoughts. I want there to be one copy of it. And if I want to destroy it, I can burn it in the backyard. Yeah. Done. 100%. I used to do digital journaling, and those have all since been deleted. Yeah. And my pen and paper, like, it's just nice sometimes to do things analog. Not everything has to be this way, but, you know. Why take the risk? Why take the risk? And also, to your point, even if there's an off switch and even if you're really diligent about the off switch, you are human. You are going to forget. I was testing the B, which was a wearable AI thing that listened to everything you did.

1:10:22I went to the bathroom. It heard everything, including me exclaiming, oh, shit, that was a shit. And then the AI recommended that I get back on Lactaid because it was like, no. Ooh, don't like that. I don't like that. That was the most humiliating thing of my life. And it was literally, I went, oh, shit, that was a shit. Oh, shit, this thing is listening to me. Shit. A lot of shits in a row. A lot of shits. And it recorded all of that. And, you know, that company is like everything is private. We don't record the audio recordings. But there's a transcript. Yeah. There's like a, there's a trail of a thing that was said.

1:11:00Also, like, terms and conditions are subject to change at any time. Right? Right? Like, I feel like we have all learned that lesson many times over to the point where, like, I'm not wearing the smart glasses to have sex. I think that's, yeah. Bedrooms? No. Bathrooms. I'm sure there's another thing that starts with the B. Even just, like, being around your house sometimes, like, that is a private space. And I don't know. I feel like most people, like, you walk around in your underwear. You do. Forget your bathrobe in the bedroom. So you need to like do the naked dash through the house. Like there are lots of instances where it's not just relegated to like only in the bedroom, only in the bathroom, only in the closet.

1:11:42So, yeah, I feel also like I will say I'm there's probably like zero instances where I could be convinced to get smart glasses for all the reasons that we've talked about. Like I'm very forgetful. I kind of just like do what I need to do when I need to do it. So it's a no from me, but maybe you have a happy balance. I'm more of a kind of a middle ground where obviously I'm testing these things. Obviously, I'm a gadget girly, but I do think you have to be really thoughtful and intentional about when you're using this tech before this tech rules you. So I think have this conversation with your wife and she gets final say because the thing about this new technology is that we are navigating new privacy, like comfort zones and levels with it.

1:12:31And, you know, with the new era of smart glasses, privacy hasn't come up quite as much because I think we're a lot more comfortable just everyone doing like, oh, my God, this is my TikTok. I'm public. Wow. So we're much more comfortable, theoretically, with cameras being around all the time. But this is a very private, intimate space. This is a very private, intimate act. You got to have the conversation first. And it has to be something that you both agree on and that you both consent to. Because she's not good. I can tell you she's not going to be happy if you just buy them and wear them. Don't explain it.

1:13:08Don't explain it. Yeah, that's not good. There will be no sex having if that happens. So, yes. Yeah. Just think of it as an opportunity to kind of like expand your glasses look. Have more than – yeah. The takeaway. Have a couple pair. The takeaway is have more than one pair of glasses. You can have more than one pair. Treat yourself. Treat yourself. Yeah. So, I think – Hopefully this is helpful. And have your wife call in, too, if she has additional thoughts. Yes. I would love to hear from her if she has her thoughts. It's like, I would love to hear it. We could do a follow-up. Yeah. Okay, so that's it for The Vergecast today.

1:13:47Thanks, Mia. Thanks, anonymous listener. Thanks for everyone on the show today. And thank you for listening. So there's a whole lot more from this conversation at theverge.com. We'll put links in the show notes, but also read theverge.com. Find our bylines. You guys are internet savvy. I know you know how to do it. As always, if you have thoughts, questions, feelings, you can always email us at vergecast at theverge.com or keep calling the hotline 866-VERGE-11. We love hearing from you. Send us all your thoughts. And we do mean all your thoughts and questions and ideas for what we should do on the show.

1:14:21We do a hotline question every week, so keep them coming. This show is produced by Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer, Travis Larchuk, and Andrew Marino. The Vergecast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Jake will be back on Friday to discuss all the news from this week and goodbye.

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