It's still way too hard to switch phones

0:02Hello and welcome to the VergeCast, the flagship podcast of number portability. I'm your friend David Pierce and today on the show we are going to answer your questions about phones. We try to do a hotline episode on the show every week or so. We have a lot of questions about smartphones but not about like which smartphone should you buy because increasingly I think that's a pretty easy question for most people but questions about how do we move around in the world as people who have smartphones. How do we use our smartphones a little less? How do we manage our phones in a family full of people?

0:30We have a bunch of your questions. Allison Johnson's going to come on and we're going to answer as many of them as we can. There's a lot of fun stuff to get to. But first, here's everything else happening on The Verge today. This is 90 Seconds on The Verge for Wednesday, July 8th, 2026. New Pixel phones are coming. Google just announced an event for August 12th in New York City, where I suspect we're going to get new Pixels, new Pixel Pros, maybe a new Pixel Fold, maybe even a new Pixel Watch. Who knows what's coming after last year's deeply bizarre event with Jimmy Fallon, but in terms of the devices themselves, we're not expecting real, you know, fireworks.

1:03Slimmer bezels, thinner foldable phone in particular, maybe a new design for the giant camera bar. Most of all, I think the biggest new thing about the Pixels is that they're going to be substantially more expensive. Because everything right now is substantially more expensive. Thank you, Ramageddon. Oh, and by the way, there is a new Samsung foldable coming July 22nd. It is phone season, baby. We're so back. Meanwhile, Meta just issued an update to its smart glasses that makes a very small but very important privacy change. If the glasses detect that someone has tampered with or destroyed that little light that blinks when you're recording, the camera will now be disabled altogether.

1:38This is a good change, and it's a response to a very real phenomenon of people hacking and disabling those lights. But that is just one of the problems facing Meta's smart glasses when it comes to privacy, and there are many, many more to reckon with. Finally, I'd like to briefly introduce you to Benny, This new dog-like drone that runs and jumps and falls down and gets back up and was created by a bunch of former DJI employees. It's a Kickstarter project, so all normal Kickstarter caveats apply, but The Verge's Sean Hollister took Benny on an adventure and frankly had a great time. The thing is adorable.

2:10Creepy, dystopian, always-on camera hellscape? Absolutely. But also extremely appealing. I kind of love it. You can read more about all of this at TheVerge.com. That's 90 Seconds on The Verge for Wednesday, July 8th. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast.

2:44That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Fourth of July savings are happening now at the Home Depot with select appliances starting at$398. Plus, get free delivery on appliance purchases of$398 or more, no membership required. Upgrade your kitchen with a modern and sleek GE profile refrigerator featuring hands-free autofill for the perfect pour every time. And make laundry day easier with two-in-one washer-dryer combo innovation that completes laundry in about 90 minutes. Shop top brand appliances now at the Home Depot.

3:18Offer valid June 17th to July at the U.S. only C-Store online for details.

3:26Joining me now, The Verge's senior smartphone reviewer, Allison Johnson. Hi, Allison. Hello. Allison, we have lots of questions from the people who demand answers. I will say these are largely not about e-ink phones, even though I have a limitless supply of questions about e-ink phones that I could have brought you should I have desired. We could do another 30-minute segment on e-ink phones. Easily, and we will. Believe you me, we will. For now, I have a few questions, mostly about phones, but I have one that's about cameras that I still think you are the correct person to answer. This one comes from David R., who says, My wife had our first baby, a girl, congrats, David, in August, and as you can imagine, we've been taking tons of photos.

4:09I'm wondering if there's a decent point-and-shoot camera that's not too expensive, maybe under$500, or should we just stick with our phones? We already have a Nikon DSLR, so I don't want to spend$1 ,000 on a new camera when I could just upgrade the things for that one. You in a previous life were a camera person. You remain a camera person. You are also a person with a young kid who thinks a lot about photos. So my first question for you, and I think this is a question actually most parents grapple with when you first have kids, is a dedicated camera worth it over my phone for a kid picture specifically?

4:42Man, the eternal question. I found that I so I have a camera. I have a Sony a7C. First year of my kid's life came out a lot, took a lot of fancy pictures. I it hasn't seen the light of day in several years. But I don't I think every parent's mileage kind of varies. So my kind of instinct is like, what makes you think you want a dedicated camera? Like, what are the reasons? If you want just like less connection to your phone, you don't want your phone in your face and your kids' big moments. Totally legitimate. The camera market is kind of like a weird mess right now. Like if you're talking about a$500 point and shoot, those are non-existent.

5:41Yeah. That was the part that tripped me up too is I think even if you want to make the spiritual argument for a point and shoot camera, which I think you can, Neil I. Patel bought a Sony RX100 when he had his first kid and swore by it. That like it's fast. It takes better pictures. It'll last you longer. Like there are a lot of good reasons to do it. it's the$500 thing that I can't quite figure out because there's just not a lot there. Yeah, there used to be. There used to be just dozens of models at every price point in the market. They've all kind of gone away. You can get a new Canon PowerShot for somewhere around like$300,$400 right now.

6:23Otherwise, you're looking at like a very expensive point and shoot or the used like resale market. And those prices are kind of insane for a variety of reasons. The new power shots, those kind of the ones that have recently, you know, had the huge come up on TikTok and they're like retro cool all over again. Are those meaningfully better photos than you would get from your phone at this point? It depends on what you're looking for. If you get something with a good amount of zoom, I think that can still best a phone camera in certain situations. Low light photos, not as great. But some people are really, really disliking the kind of color they're getting out of their phone cameras these days.

7:12The HDR look and all of that. If you want to run away from that, a compact camera is a great place to go. um my instinct is like uh get a fun lens for that nikon dslr like uh i have a fifth like the cheapest 50 millimeter possible on my sony a7c and i never take it off unless unless i am forced to um and i love it and it kind of like it's not a an all-purpose bring it to the kids piano recital soccer practice, whatever lens. In theory, I would bring it out more, but I still don't. I actually think that's where I land too, because I was thinking about my own experience as a parent. And it's basically, you take two kinds of photos, right?

8:00One is the sort of run and gun, we're out at the grocery store and they did something very cute photo. And unless you're committed to buying a point and shoot camera and bringing it with you absolutely absolutely everywhere, you're going to miss those photos anyway. So, right. And I think for the most part, your phone is perfectly adequate to do those things. What I would argue for in those cases is like get a third party app, use like Halide or something, dumb down the processing, get a little more control over the photos that you're trying to take if you want to take better photos in those instances.

8:29And then there's the flip side where there are things that are sort of obviously photography experiences where it's like I'm I'm going to one that we just had was like a birthday party where everybody was dressed up as superheroes. Like, I know for sure I'm going to take a lot of pictures. And for that, I think I think you're right. Get a really fun, really versatile DSLR lens and just be the photographer at the party. And there's like this is also a thing I've discovered. I don't know if this has happened to you, but like when there is the one person running around taking great pictures, they're like the hit of the party.

9:02All of a sudden, it's like as long as I know you, if you're just a stranger taking pictures of my child, we have problems. But like the one parent who is like doing a good job taking pictures and then sends them around like you end up beloved in your community. So I think if you're willing to be that person, show up with the DSLR and just show everybody up with your awesome pictures. Oh, yeah. You'll become very powerful. 100%. But yeah, I feel like the middle ground of like I do think a camera like the RX100 is going to take vastly better pictures than I think you're going to get on your phone.

9:32And if you want to step up a little bit, like the Fujifilm X100 series, also going to take better stuff. More fun camera to use. Isn't your phone. Those are all good things. It's a commitment to decide to live with one of those things with you at all times. And if you're not going to, your DSLR and your phone combo, I think, is basically enough. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. You kind of have to be a I carry my camera everywhere person because you're going to be carrying a baby everywhere now. A baby who is really going to get very interested in trying to break whatever you hold in your hands. Yeah, it's fun.

10:08I have a 10-month-old whose new thing is to try to knock my coffee out of my hands in the morning. Oh, that's great. And he just cackles at me as he tries to swat at it. He knows what he's doing. Oh, my gosh. And it's really something. I have a maneuver. I, like, shield the coffee cup. And, like, Lennox is old enough at this point. But I'm like, I'm taking a sip of coffee. Like, don't make any moves. Like, even when it's not on purpose. His thing for the longest time was he would get really excited whenever I was filling up a bottle when I had him in my arms. And he would just like lurch around so much I would end up spilling the formula all over everywhere.

10:39And he would just die laughing every single time. Oh, that's great. He's like, my chaos is his absolute favorite thing. All right, David, I hope all of that helps. Let us know what you end up deciding. Now, Allison, I have phone questions for you. More specifically, the people have phone questions for you. While we're talking parenting, let's stick with this one. We have a parenting question for you. Hi, David. Apologies for another question about cutting down on phone time. Last year I switched to an MBNO, which gave me a cellular connection to my Apple Watch. I love this because it reminds me of the last non-smartphone I had that had a data plan, but really only had access to a Java-based Google Maps app.

11:17It feels like the correct solution to cutting down on my smartphone dependence, and I'd like to continue to rely more on my watch as a semi-smartphone. The biggest issue is that I have a four-year-old and a five-month-old, and it feels weird to leave the house with them for anything beyond a neighborhood walk and not bring my phone. Same thing for when I go to the office, where I use my phone on my commute and listen to music while working. My wife and I also have access to each other's location for emergencies, and I can't tell to find my app to only track my watch's location instead of my phone.

11:47there's also the issue of convincing her that I can leave my phone and she'll still be able to reach me on my watch. I'm curious about your thoughts on cutting down on phone time, phone time rather, while it is a borderline essential tool as a parent. Thanks so much. Have a good one. A running theme of our conversations here on The Vergecast, Allison, are why can't my Apple Watch solve all of my problems? Oh my God, I love it. And I feel this so acutely all the time. Yes. I know you reckon with this exact thing all of the time. Tell me what you think about this question. Yeah. So my experimentation using an Apple Watch, like kind of as my phone, leaving the house without the phone, it was pretty centered on like me going somewhere solo.

12:33So I, yeah, trying to like extrapolate and think about how that would go on like a family outing or if I'm just taking my kid to the playground. Yeah, it does get a little hairy there. And I'm thinking of like CarPlay, you know, doesn't work. Apple Watch to car. Yeah. I, you know, I tried. I couldn't trick the car connecting to the Apple Watch. Um, so something like that is, yeah, if you want, um, directions on the fly to go somewhere else, or you're, you have to play the Paw Patrol movie soundtrack in your car, otherwise there's, um, a murder is going to happen. And I'm familiar with all these pain points.

13:23And I think it's easier to solve for the like, well, what are you using your phone on your commute for? Is there another device that would do that? Maybe an e-reader or another, like an app that is on the smartwatch you could subscribe to and get your books or podcasts or whatever it is. But yeah, the family situations I think are just trickier. It is. And I think to some extent, this question is a little bit like just asking for permission to have your phone with you all the time. And I just want you to know, it's okay to have your phone with you all the time. I have my phone with me all the time.

14:03Like, I would love to use my phone less. I don't. And it's fine. We're all just getting through life together here. But I think to me, there is something in here that is like, okay, how do I make it so that I can switch my phone into something less than it is without losing the essential features, right? And this is where Find My, I think, is actually a perfect example of the sort of thing that you can't just leave your phone at home because it's actually important that your family be able to track you. If this is a thing your family has decided, leaving your phone at home defeats the whole purpose of this feature, right?

14:36So even if it's like, okay, just replace your Spotify with an iPod, problem solved. Like actually no, problem not solved at all. And this is like, this is the endless battle of the minimalist smartphone is figuring out what is the exact threshold of all of the stuff that you need and nothing else. Nothing has remotely come close to achieving that threshold. My immediate thought on hearing this question was that there are two solutions I can think of that will like largely help the symptoms of the problem here, right? The problem is not I have a phone. The problem is I look at my phone too much, which as a parent, holy Lord, do I feel that I'm like sitting there next to my child scrolling slack.

15:14And I literally I had this thought just the other day of like, oh, thank God he won't remember this because I'm sitting here looking at my phone. And I was like, I could just stop looking at my phone like this is I could just literally stop looking at my phone. But anyway, the two thoughts that I had were that you could really, really aggressively embrace focus modes, which is essentially a way to either manually or by time or even in some cases like geofence your way to say, when I'm home, my phone becomes something else. And you can make certain apps harder to access. You can change your wallpaper.

15:45You can change your lock screen, like all this stuff that just sort of sends the signal to your brain. I don't want to be on my phone. And then when you leave, it can switch to I'm commuting now. I have permission to use my phone for all that it's worth. So I think focus modes is a good software version of that. And then the other one is the is the brick, which I'm increasingly sort of a zealot for the idea of the brick, which is a very simple gadget that you tap with your phone. And it changes the mode that you're in, you have to tap this little rectangle of plastic. And it uses the NFC reader to switch your phone's mode.

16:20And what it can do is it can turn apps off, it can change some settings for you, it basically it shuts down all the things that you want to have shut down. When I have used my phone the least at home has been when I basically like walk into the kitchen, tap the brick, all of my social media apps go away. I can't open them if I want to unless I physically get up, go over to the fridge again, acknowledge that I am deciding to be a bad person who hates my children and tap the thing again. That's not actually true, but that is sort of how it feels, which I think is the point, right? Like I want to look at Reddit now is a thing I have to like say in my brain as I tap back on the brick.

16:55And I think that little bit of friction is really useful. And I think you and I have talked about this before, but it's like the solution to use your phone less is not just be more disciplined, which is a really annoying thing that people say and I think is completely unrealistic for most people. It's also not throw your phone into a river because of all the reasons this question asker is bringing up, that's not feasible. But I think you can add, you can make it harder to do the things on your phone that you don't want to do. And that will make you do them less. Or at least that's been my experience.

17:26And if you can, this is easier around the house, but like make it easier to do something you don't mind as much. I have, I have like a USA Today book of crossword puzzles. And so they're easy enough that I'm not going to get like frustrated, but it's like, it's slander for the USA Today. Okay, we all know the New York Times is the GOAT. USA Today is tricky, but, you know, if that's sitting on the table with a pencil and it's right there, I'm like, well, I'll do this instead of, you know, and I have my phone like away from me. If you can kind of create the friction and if there's like, it's something you can fill that void with.

18:10So because my kid's going to interrupt me every five seconds anyway. I can put the crossword down. I don't know. I've had a little success with that. It hasn't been like, hasn't cured all of my phone ailments. But yeah, friction where you can add it. And then like maybe something pleasant that isn't your phone. Yeah. One piece of advice I give to people now is set up your phone aspirationally. Don't set up your phone as a response to how you actually use your phone. Set up your phone as a response to how you would like to use your phone. So it's like I have the Kindle app on my home screen. Do I open the Kindle app as one of the 10 most opened apps on my phone?

18:48God, no. But I'd like to. And so I'm trying to I'm trying to put good habits right in front of my face. It's like shoving the junk food to the back of the cabinet. Right. Like, yeah, I have to get rid of the junk food. So just make it make it so that you have to reach past the good stuff and and you maybe won't just slightly more often. Yeah. Dress for the job you want. That's exactly right. Dress your phone for the job it wants, not for the job it wants. Yeah, exactly. That's really good, Allison. I like that. We're going to put that on a T-shirt. We're going to put that on a phone case is what we're going to do.

19:23This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. Hey, everybody, it's Prime Video's Cassidy Hubberth, and the Chicago Sky Skyler Dingens and I are bringing our new podcast, and mom to Chicago for Vox Media's The Lineup on Friday, July 24th.

20:00And mom is the conversation motherhood deserves. It's honest, unfiltered, and real. Skylar and I are diving into what it actually looks like to be both a working professional and a mother. The identity shifts, the career pivots, the mental load, and the stuff that usually stays behind closed doors. And at The Lineup, we're bringing that conversation live. It's a full day of programming that celebrates this amazing league and its players. Three stellar podcasts, four legendary hosts, one stage. Get your tickets for the lineup at voxmedia.com slash lineup. That's voxmedia.com slash lineup. See you all Friday, July 24th in Chicago.

20:43Hey, Sue Bird here. I'm bringing Bird's Eye View to Chicago for Vox Media's The Lineup. It's a full day of live programming that celebrates the WNBA and its players. Three stellar podcasts, four legendary hosts, all on one stage. And I'm kicking it off with a special guest you'll absolutely want to be in the room for. Get your tickets for Bird's Eye View live show presented by Delta and supported by Google Gemini at boxmedia.com slash lineup. That's boxmedia.com slash lineup. I will see you all Friday, July 24th in Chicago.

21:20I'm Seth Matlins. My new show, Create or Destroy, Reimagining Marketing, explores how every decision a company makes, not just the marketing ones, but the HR, IR, pricing, org design, and planning ones, the ones most don't consider marketing at all, contribute to either creating value or destroying it. Each week, I sit down with CMOs, CEOs, founders, cultural thinkers, the people building, breaking, and reimagining how businesses grow or don't for conversations about what creates value and what destroys it. It's a business show. It's a marketing show. Creator destroys the show that argues. They've always been the same thing.

21:54From the Vox Media Podcast Network and the Wisdomist Company. New episodes drop weekly on YouTube and your favorite podcast app.

22:07All right, let's get to our next question. Hey, David, this is Alan from Minnesota. My burning thoughts or questions, you know, we all talk about how, you know, it's so hard to leave iPhone because even though we like Android on, you know, on principle or we like most things about it, we just can't. We just can't. We have to make a two year decision every time we choose a phone, which makes it impossible to choose a dumber phone, a light phone, an e-ink based phone. what if the future of all of this is just maximum portability? I was astounded in my switching to, you know, one of the Mint Mobile-like carriers.

22:48I won't say which one's the MVMOs. How simple it is to just go back and forth between phones. As an app developer, I can switch between Android and iOS. And really, the only, it takes, you know, maybe an hour, but it works pretty seamlessly and their support's really good. And I've tried to do that on Verizon before, and it takes like a day, and I have to open a new account. And I almost wonder if the mainstream carriers create that kind of friction as a feature to keep their customers locked in to making two-year phone decisions. And so I'm wondering if the future of all of this and all of these types of devices is just one-click portability.

23:28Allison, this is yet again one of the things we keep talking about. You switch phones all the time. I want to separate this question into two parts. One is, is there a grand conspiracy afoot to make it hard for you to switch phones and or carriers? And two, if we can fix that, can we make everybody's phone lives better? So let's start with the first part here. What do you think? Why is it so hard to switch phones and carriers? man i spend a lot of time thinking about this uh i think um like some of it i believe is real you don't want to make it like too easy for someone to impersonate another person and be like i want to put my phone line on this phone and steal all your crap or whatever sure if i can call and be like hey it's me allison put my number on this phone instead then then we have a problem I get that.