Tales of a shopping influencer

26:32if you have maybe been you know on tiktok in the recent and last like week or so you've probably seen like at the end of videos there will be a pop-up that says shop more shoes or shop more men's coats on tiktok shop and it takes you to tiktok shop and gives you a list of products that in my experience i wrote about this as well in my experience have nothing to do with the product that it says it wants you to shop for. But the goal is to get you on to shop on the shop platform. And the videos that these prompts are being added to are not even nakedly promotional. They are talking about something.

27:12And TikTok picks up what is in that video and tries to convert that into a purchase. And so the flip platform is like that if it drops a pretext. Right. It's almost more honest in a way. It is completely. And we already know that this is really the direction that TikTok wants to go in and that it is seriously trying to ramp up its shopping business in the United States this year. So it was giving all these crazy promotional deals to merchants to try to get them onto TikTok shop. It was doing sort of the AliExpress, Shein, Timu thing of, you know, 99 % off or free item, just pay shipping, like whatever, these kind of crazy good, too good to be true deals to get people to buy things on TikTok shop.

27:55The parallels with Flip are very obvious. It feels like Flip is just that, but more focused where they just stop pretending that it's about anything other than actually making sales and getting that affiliate money, getting merchants onto the platform. I've observed this. I don't know, David, if you've seen this too with like your favorite creators who start out educational, you know, start up making educational content, start out vlogging or not monetizing their content in any way in particular, but then very quickly when the opportunity presents itself, they jump to doing the sponsored content or the ads.

28:30And that bridge is like a stone's throw. You know, it is so easy to switch into that mode if you want. And there are a lot of people who hold down normal jobs and then also are making, you know, getting brand deals and making TikToks and making sponsored content. So this idea of like influencer being a separate category is, I think, increasingly becoming less true. And the whole thing about Flip is that you see non-influencers make this content and potentially benefit and profit from it. And they want you to do that. They want you to create this new side hustle that maybe might amount to, you know, 20 bucks in a couple of weeks, which is, I haven't even hit that point.

29:12And I've been trying so hard on Flip and I still have only made like$14 and I can't even cash it out. I cannot even cash out my money because I need to get to 20. So yeah, it's very sad and feels like stolen labor on my part. But this vision that it presents is that all of your activities online, all of your purchases, maybe you can monetize them. What if you could? Right. And it makes me wonder if Flip looks more like the future of Amazon or the future of social networking. Because I think, to me, the idea that TikTok and Instagram and sort of the places we used to go to like connect and find stuff we liked online are just rapidly becoming shopping malls is true and also like deeply bleak and kind of dystopian in a way.

29:58But the idea that the way I shop on Amazon is essentially going to be sort of overrun by middlemen who are like real people, quote unquote, real people who are talking about the products. That doesn't strike me as like more or less bad in the world. It just seems like kind of a future of shopping that is already really real in places like China, where like live streaming shopping has been a huge business for a really long time. And so I wonder, like, as you talk to folks that flip and use the platform, like, does it feel more like social or more like shopping over time? That's a good question, because so much of short form video like TikTok was already about finding things to buy.

30:36Yeah, totally. I have been like beating this drum for a long time, especially with people in my age group, women, Gen Z, right? Like they go to TikTok for recommendations. They do. And they jump off the app, then buy the thing. Often it sells out. Sometimes it's like in the New York Times style section or whatever, gets all these write-ups about this viral product. And TikTok is making no money from that. So obviously they want in on this. And Flip is sort of just like systematizing this and automating that in a way that TikTok, I think, is really trying to. Flip's footprint is obviously way smaller than TikTok, but, you know, the point stands.

31:12And in terms of like, I don't know, does it feel better or worse? I think it's interesting that we are in an era of hyper recommendations and we still need someone to tell us what to do, that we still need someone to tell us what is good and what is bad and what we should buy. I saw like the explosion of gift guides on TikTok this year more than other years, which I find fascinating when presumably our for you algorithm should be like an endless stream of gifts or things that we might be interested in, things that, you know, the data shows that we might we might purchase or we might watch or we might like or save.

31:48And so this idea that like we still want newsletters with recommendations, we still want friends telling us things. It tells me that there's there's something that is not quite there with like the algorithmic recommendations. And is it good that all of us become salespeople? Like, no. Is that brave of me to say? I don't know. That feels bad. That feels bad. But I also get the other point of like, if you are posting something on TikTok and it's going to be catapulting the viewer to TikTok shop anyway, why not try to get a cut of it? Because right now, as it stands, the people who have that TikTok shop, you know, shop more shoes button, as far as I know, they're not getting a cut of that.

32:32So it makes me think, like, why would I make any content if it's just going to be a sort of portal for TikTok to make more money? Totally. No, I think that's right. And I think in a funny way, you just sort of encapsulated like a central tension of the internet right now that we are going to have to spend a lot more time talking about. But for now, before I let you go, give me the state of the Mia Flip business. You said you've made like 14 bucks. Tell me, I want to know the money. I want to know the views. I want to know how quickly you are becoming a mogul on Flip. I have to say that it's not going as successfully as I would have hoped.

33:07Also, the videos that I spent the most time on have done the worst, which is fascinating. There's a life lesson there. It's a life lesson. It's sad, too, because a lot of the products that I bought, like, I probably won't end up doing much with. I tried to buy some perishable things. So, like, I bought coffee beans, which I will drink coffee eventually. I bought candles that I actually am obsessed with that I purchased before I was on Flip. And I was like, oh, they're on Flip, too. So I bought, like, four of those candles. Nice. So I'm stocked. But I will not quit my job at TheVerge.com anytime soon unless something crazy happens to my flip content.

33:44Then I'm out. Once you hit 20 bucks and you can cash out, it's all over. I'm taking my money and running. Exactly. Love it. Mia, thank you. Appreciate it as always. Thanks, David. This is so fun. All right. We got to take a break and then we're going to talk cameras. We'll be right back.

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37:39All right, we're back. Last week, Fujifilm announced the X106, which is its newest camera. Normally in 2024, a new camera doesn't qualify as a culture-shaking event, but this one kind of did. The X100 5, the last model of this camera, became kind of a viral sensation over the last few years, to the point where you basically couldn't get your hands on one, even if you wanted to, even if you wanted to spend the well over$1 ,000 that it would cost you. This new model is apparently going to be easier to get your hands on, and also comes with some upgrades, but fundamentally, it's still an X100. Oh, and it's a little more expensive.

38:15To help me figure out why this camera matters so much and whether the new one is a worthy upgrade to the internet's favorite camera, I grabbed two members of the Verge's video team and two of our most dedicated camera nerds, Viren Pavic and Becca Farsaci. Viren, welcome to the show. Oh my god, hello. Becca, hello. Hello. My camera people, this is very exciting. I'm glad to have you here. We never get to talk about dedicated cameras on the Verge cast because who cares? but now we get to because people care this is very exciting boy do they care they super care right so i want to get it that's like mostly what i want to talk about is like the the cultural phenomenon of this camera but i feel like we should educate people on a little bit of of fujifilm history here to start so viren maybe let's start with you because i think you've been using the x100 line of cameras for a very long time so like take me back to the the beginning of the X100, what is this camera?

39:12Like what's its deal even from the very beginning? So I, someone actually asked me yesterday, they use Fuji and I went back to like see when I started and it was exactly a 10 years ago when I bought the X100T, which is the third one. Now it's six and people are opinionated. It is a point and shoot fixed lens, 23 millimeter F2 on, which is equivalent to 35 millimeter camera that just does a lot of things right. Why people love it is the fact that it has like film simulations that make your JPEGs look amazing. For a lot of people and myself included it's been like the the perfect beat camera. Like I want a digital camera that is a small footprint that I can bring everywhere and get good results with and that's kind of it.

39:56And it was my entry into Fuji and at that point like I saw this camera I played around with it I was like, oh, wow, this is what a modern camera looks like in a retro body. I got really excited by like the viewfinder and the built-in NDs and all these little things that make it like very useful. But I don't think it's just that it produces good results. I think what's actually more important is that you look cool doing it because there's many point and shoot cameras like this. Like Rico makes one. And I mean, if you have a lot of money, Leica. But like the whole idea is that like this looks really cool.

40:29It's a price point that some people can digest easily without knowing too much about cameras. And then you also have the added bonus of sometimes it can produce good results if you know what you're doing. Balance those two sides of it for me, because I think there is something to the fact that this is just a great looking camera and has been for a long time. And it started to be everywhere. You know, people are doing like street photography and like the blogging era and everybody was excited about those cameras for that. But there is also something to what you're saying, Viren. Somebody described it to me at one point as like it is the perfect middle between a DSLR and a smartphone where you get some controls, but fundamentally you can just turn the thing on, point it at something, shoot and trust that it will do something spectacular for you.

41:12So like for you guys as people who do this like professionally, do you buy this because it's cool over another sort of equivalently specced, equivalently priced camera? Or is there something about the X100 that is special as a camera? I can't wait to hear Viren's answer. I will say there is something very special about this camera. There it is. I will say that much. There it is. You won the bet if that was your bet. Bingo. But I would buy this camera as a hobby camera. Like this is what I take with me because it's fun to use. It has like all I have it right here. It has like all of these dials and it feels good in your hand, although this front grip could be hella thicker, which is why a lot of people buy a thumb grip for the back.

41:53It's just fun to use and you get results that are better than a smartphone. But I wouldn't do professional work on this because on a professional camera, I want more control over my lenses. And I do want a full frame sensor. Yeah, it is not like a camera that can do a lot. It has that perfect focal length for a lot of people. It has very good video capabilities, but does it really need? I mean, like, yeah, it's nice to have. And I guess in the world of like TikTok and Instagram, like Reels, like, yeah, it's good to have like good video as well. But even like video capabilities, I always like never really cared about those on this camera.

42:32So it is like it is very limiting in what it can do actually as a camera. But it really exploded in popularity in the last couple of years. Yeah. No, Viren, hold on. I'm not letting you off the hook for this, though. You love this thing. Thank you. This thing has like mythical properties for you. And I want you to explain why. I do love this camera. I do have a confession that I actually like sold mine. What? Yes, I did. Because I just knew that maybe I will get whatever is coming. And the pricing for it was still like, oh, yeah, you know what? I can sell it for a decent amount of money. Not only does Viren want to get what's coming, but he saw the limited edition.

43:09It was like, I don't really want this camera. I want the one that's only 1 ,900 and, I don't know, 36 of them are made. I want that one. Love it. Yes. Well, I did spend my entire morning trying to get Elbin Ring collector's edition, and that failed. So, you know, I have to, like, redeem myself with the Fuji X106 limited edition. No, I mean, I do love what Fuji is doing with, like, the film simulations and everything. I make a lot of my own. I go through the websites that, like, give you recipes that you can use for the camera. I just love bringing it around. Like I am the person who like wants to bring a camera everywhere I go.

43:45For the longest time, there used to be like a 5D for me, which is massive and really not like a thing that you would want to like carry around. So this was always like, oh, I can bring this. It's a digital camera. I mainly film, still shoot in digital. So there was a lot about it that just like it does very well. but once I got my first one like the the idea of like all the modern specs that it actually had in it made me realize about like oh these cameras are just like super fun to just like use and have a bunch in it that I like wasn't expecting yeah so it's like the joining of this is fun to use and I can also get pretty good results with it and there is something to having a camera this size that is not scary to bring to parties like I have been places where Viren has busted out big giant cameras with, you know, 18 to 200 lenses and they freak people out.

44:38Whereas the X100 is like that perfect size where it sort of blends in in a way that other better cameras don't. And it is like it's a middle point that I think is very powerful. I saw on threads somebody was saying like, this is the greatest camera to bring to concerts because I know it won't get confiscated. It doesn't look professional enough for that, but I can get great results. And like genius. Yep. Perfect explanation. I love that. So but for like a decade, this thing just trundles along. It's a good camera. of people like it, but it then in 2020 becomes like a cultural phenomenon. And I missed the origins of this.

45:10Like all of a sudden, I feel like I turned around and everyone was talking about it. But this is a TikTok thing, right? Like, Becca, how did this become such a thing on the internet? TikTok is a visual platform and folks saw this camera. They saw the results that some folks were getting. And they're like, I want that too. And like I was saying before, it has a price that is friendly to some folks, not all. This is not a cheap camera by any means, but it's much cheaper than most mirrorless cameras or most cameras that produce similar results that are into the 2000s, and that's just for the body alone.

45:44This, you get the camera and the lens. And at the time, I think it was going for like, well, before it blew up on TikTok, it was going for like$1 ,400. And then it blew up and so did the prices. Honestly, it took me by surprise how many people would come to me asking me about this camera. and I had no idea that it was blowing up on TikTok. Like I truly had no idea that it was like becoming so popular. And soon after that, like my algorithm changed entirely. And the only thing I can see is just like X100V photos and samples and not even like samples. Like my algorithms are like very much like photo video creators.

46:22Like I see a lot of samples with everything, but the X100V was kind of like just chilling there. It was like part of the set as well. And it was not only about what it can do, but it was also very cool to have this camera. Like, I do think that a lot of people now like do love the film look in general, but some people don't want to make film photos. And this was kind of like, oh, I can I can have the best of both worlds. Yeah. If you'll allow me to talk about that for a second, the whole the whole idea of having film photos without having to shoot film. Like, I think a lot of folks swung to film because you can naturally get a really great baked in look.

46:58but there's a lot of friction there with having to drop it off at a lab and like kind of having to know what aperture is plus then you have it on film and what the hell are you going to do with film you're going to put it in a binder and you're never going to look at it again you just scan it how are you going to scan it are you taking photos or a scanner like there's a whole culture of like you know subculture people like doing it and it's fantastic and i think in like especially when we're like in the AI world of just like generative images and now videos, like there is something about the tangibility of film that people are like really going after again.

47:33Oh yeah, I love it, but it is filled with friction. I'll say film is a pain in the ass and that's what I love about it. But this can give you film like it's, it's the closest digital camera that can naturally give you film like results without having to do anything with film. Becca, dig into that a little bit for me because people do talk a lot about the film simulation stuff and i think i have been conditioned over the years to not trust any built-in setting inside of a camera because they'll just screw up your photos and everybody's like just do it in post fix it on your computer you can make it look like anything you want there's tons of good software you you should shoot the rawest cleanest thing out of the camera that you should but on the x100 people buy into these film simulation things, right?

48:16Like what is, what is Fuji doing here that is different? So David M.L. made an incredible video for the studio about why and how Fujifilm is perfectly poised to make this camera. And the guts of that video is that they have been creating film for, I mean, most of their history. And so they have a lot of great color scientists who know how to make great colors and they just baked that into this camera. And that's something that, I mean, if Kodak was still around, maybe they could do it, but nobody else has that background knowledge on color science. And so there's a level of trust that folks have in this camera and the colors that it produces that they don't have in other companies' cameras.

48:58And again, go watch David's video. It is excellent. And he also speaks about shooting RAW versus JPEG and makes a great analogy to clay. And you got to go watch that video. But the long short of it is that the colors that this camera produces are actually really good. And more importantly, they're unique to this system. Whereas in most manufacturers are just creating color profiles that are pleasing to the most amount of people. Got it. Okay. So let's talk about the X106 itself. This thing has been, I would say, more hotly awaited than just about any camera I can think of. I admittedly am not in like the professional camera world.

49:35So I don't know if they're like weird Sony lenses that are getting just as much press. But like people have been talking about are waiting for this camera for a very long time. Like there were leaks about every piece of it, which I don't remember happening for a camera in a really long time. What is different from a hardware perspective about the camera this time? Becca, you have one. What are kind of the big upgrades for this generation? You do have 40 megapixels as opposed to 26 megapixels on the V. The LCD allows 15 degrees more tilt, but otherwise it's pretty much the same camera. There's one more thing that's very important.

50:11You now have in-body image stabilization. So you can basically shoot at lower shutter speeds and still get crisp photos. That feels fine. Were people clamoring for anything new and huge in the hardware? It doesn't sound like they were. I think what's a bigger deal about this camera, though, is there was a lot of scarcity in the V. And now they're producing this camera in China as opposed to Japan, which some folks aren't stoked about. But Fujifilm is promising that they will have more available to folks. And that's just good news for a lot of people who couldn't get their hands on an X100V. Yeah, how scarce was it?

50:47Everything got kind of weird during the pandemic trying to buy stuff. But like how rare did the X100V actually become? yeah i think like after the pandemic it was just like extremely hard to get and like i wanted to get one and it just like never made sense like the prices were just like insane uh and i think this was like one of the last few fuji cameras before they switched their factories so i think like it was the x100v and then like x pro 3 i think the x birthday was like the last one made in japan and then they switched to china probably did not help with just like trying to get those orders out and at one point fuji was just like we're not accepting accepting any more orders so there's the other side of the argument that just like a lot of people are like maybe not entirely happy with like the the improvements between the two models and are just kind of saying that like oh fuji is capitalizing on the popularity of this camera they're gonna do an iterative update for it and also raise the price for it as well.

51:48Instead of making more of the X100Vs, they're just going to make more of the X106 now. Got it. Okay. Which, I don't know, I think that's fair. I don't think there's anything wrong with having small updates to systems. It's funny, I was sent a review of the X100T done nine years ago, changed some names around, and that review could be used for the X-100V. But I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's a good system. It has a good, like, what we would, you know, quote-unquote call a retro feel. And that's a good thing. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. Yeah. So I do wonder, though, if part of the appeal of the X-100V was that it became so rare and hard to get and was such a cool kind of status symbol to be able to shoot with and have in the background of your shots and whatever.

52:40is this thing if it floods the market and everybody who wants one can get one is it going to be as cool and viral as the view was no yeah the answer is like no it's been a very polarizing camera since i don't know like for like last week all i can see on threads and everywhere else is just like people have a lot of opinions about this camera and i think like its popularity is making some quote-unquote like real photographers kind of mad because they feel The other ones are like, they don't know what to do with this camera, what they have in. The whole idea behind the X100 is that it's like a very much like a proper photographer's camera.

53:19It's the poor man's Leica, so to speak. It's the one that's like, you know, you're kind of limited to these like form factor of it. I think the general kind of consensus and conversation around it is kind of switching a little bit to like a negative in a way. Yeah, V sent me this great thread. And it just says, you're going to take the same shitty photos with the X106 that you were taking before you spent that$1 ,500. Stay broke, King. Oof. That's perfect. I know, it's pretty funny. But yeah, I feel like a lot of people have a lot of opinions about it, about how to properly use this camera. It's weird.

53:56It used to be kind of like a little bit of a secret. It was never as popular. And it was just like, oh, you can get a lot of great stuff with this tiny camera. and now it feels like it's like switches like the pendulum just kind of like swung in the other direction and some people are kind of getting mad about it or trying to justify their own purchases and i don't know it's weird it's like it's like console wars but cameras and if i've learned one thing about the photography community over the years it's that everybody is super chill about new ideas and new things and everybody nobody has like really strong entrenched opinions about the right ways to do things and everybody's just very relaxed yeah it is fundamentally like a very objective uh art form and yeah but okay what there's like so many other products that are sold with like the promise of greatness right like i my mind goes to the apple watch ultra it's like people are gonna buy this and then they're gonna go hike mountains and get lost and get saved and it's like no so it's kind of you know similar to that which there's nothing wrong with that.

54:57We all have ideas of who we want to be and think that buying something to make us that thing will, you know, make us feel better. Are you calling it an aspirational product? For some. Yeah, I am. So Becca, you've been you've been shooting with it a little bit. You're going to you're going to make a video and do some stuff for us. But what's the what's the early returns on your time with it so far? Yeah, I mean, it's it's beautiful to hold. It's very fun to use. I love that about it. I don't think it's as turnkey as everybody claims. The idea that anybody could pick this up and just have great photos is, I mean, simply not the truth.

55:34Even knowing what each film stock looks like and kind of honing in the look that you want to get from this camera is not a walk in the park. So I've been thinking about it like, I don't know if I've just been watching too much HGTV, but I've been like tons of curb appeal in this camera, but it is not turnkey. That's very good. HGTV would be very proud of you. I thought you were going to make a whole like house flipping analogy, but I like that. That's very good. Don't give me, don't give me props for that. I am workshopping it. Viren, are you going to buy one? You sold, did you have a five that you sold?

56:06No, I only had the third, the T. Oh, right. Okay. So you had the T, you sold it, hoping for this one. Is it everything you hoped it would be? Honestly, like what Becca said earlier, you can look at the old review and a lot of things would just transfer over. I think it is very much the form factor of it is fantastic. The fact that it has this new sensor, which I haven't used yet. It's been in the X-T5. It's been in the X-H2 with IBIS and the 40 megapixel count. Very intrigued by that. I've heard great things about just how well it maximizes the smaller sensors. some people wanted it to be a full frame camera and i completely understand that i do think there's like you know fuji's kind of like putting their eggs in the crop sensor and the medium format and they're skipping full frame entirely and with a fixed lens there's like maybe one day they will make this thing a full frame i can see that happening because i don't know i feel like you can only get that much out of a smaller sensor but it looks like they are able to get a lot out it people are raving about like how good the sensor is so i sold the tea i was like you know maybe i'll buy this one i have a confession i did pre-order it late last night like all day i know i was waiting to tell you becca but here we are i'm doing it publicly in front of you and everyone else no i was i had it in my basket for a while and i was like do i get it and then i read a couple of reviews late last night because i was only able to like go through all the x100 coverage yesterday and I'm like I just miss having that camera like I just miss having an x100 in my arsenal just like a thing that I can bring everywhere and feel good about just like yeah like I don't know not bringing like a massive camera but have something that's like fundamentally like super fun to use so the pre-order is in I've caved we always knew you were going to Viren if it makes you feel there was never a question I mean truly I I almost pre-ordered one as well.

58:08But then I remembered that I can just put a pancake lens on my a7c. And I know Lightroom well enough, I could pop things into there. So. But hey, if the answer is it looks kick ass and takes kick ass pictures, and it will make people follow me on TikTok. And that's the reason people buy cameras. I'll take it. I'll take anything we need. I'm into it. People pay a lot of money for clothing accessories. And this is this is one of them for some folks, not for everyone. Exactly. All right. Thank you both so much for being here. Super fun as always. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we got to take one more break and then we're going to do a question from the Vergecast hotline.

58:43We'll be right back.

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1:01:44all right we're back let's get to the verge cast hotline as always the number is 866 verge 11 or you can email verge cast at the verge.com we love all your questions we try to do at least one on the show every week this week we have a question about our right to repair segment from last week uh which will poor is here to help me answer hi will hello we got a bunch of good feedback on that episode people liked it people are super interested in right to repair love it everybody wants to break their own batteries by themselves. I don't want to be responsible for that, but that's great. But we got one question from a bunch of people.

1:02:15I would say, as people want to do, some people were very nice about it. Some people were very rude about it. But we got this question over and over. So I'm going to read an email from Mike that I would say is representative of a bunch of the feedback we got. Mike says, one big thing you left out of the parts pairing section of your right to repair discussion was the rise of phone chop shops. Because things like activation lock and stolen device protection prevent thieves from using or reselling iPhones whole, there's now a burgeoning market of phone trap shops where, much like their automotive counterparts, stolen phones are being disassembled and sold on as parts.

1:02:44Serialization and parts pairing deters this since thieves can no longer use or sell parts from stolen phones. I know this is something you also talked to a bunch of people about, so I'm curious what your thoughts on that piece of the parts pairing argument are. Yeah, so that listener mentioned activation locks, which we didn't talk about because it is a completely different system from Apple, but that is sort of the primary way that Apple prevents stolen working phones from being wiped and resold. So that's the system where your phone is tied to your iCloud account, and if someone steals it, that motherboard is sort of forever locked to your account, and without you, there's nothing they can do to resell that working phone.

1:03:27So that is a very important anti-theft mechanism for Apple. That's different from parts pairing. And there's nothing, to my knowledge, that prevents someone from stealing a phone and chopping it up and selling all of the parts individually. You know, one thing we didn't talk about a ton is that not all of the parts in an iPhone are paired to the motherboard. Lots of them aren't. So any of those parts would be super easy to take apart and sell. And activation locking doesn't prevent that in any way. And even the paired parts are resellable. It's annoying to reuse the paired parts from a stolen phone, just like it's annoying to reuse the paired parts from a non-stolen phone, a broken phone.

1:04:10So that's, you know, that doesn't help or hurt the anti-theft cause one way or the other. Have you heard Apple try to make the security argument at all? You know, you mentioned it's put out statements kind of both in favor of these laws for right to repair, but also making what I would say are relatively consistent arguments that not having parts pairing and allowing ride to repair is a security risk for lots of different reasons. I mean, like we talked about on the show, there's issues with the biometric stuff and all that. Has Apple made the theft argument at all that you've seen? Not really, no.

1:04:45And they, you know, offered a kind of a rare public testimony in Oregon that we talked about on last week's show. they ran down all of the reasons why they're very attached to part pairing. And like you say, it's safety, it's security around keeping people from hacking your biometric sensors. They didn't bring up theft one way or the other when it comes to part pairing. Is it possible that Apple sees parts pairing as part of their anti-theft strategy broadly just because, again, it makes parts more annoying to work with outside of Apple's own repair ecosystem. Sure, maybe they see that as a knock-on benefit, but it's not something that they talk about actively around parts pairing.

1:05:29Okay. Yeah, it seems like one of those things where there might be something to the idea that having these parts be digitally signed might help you sort of trace things as they go wrong, like it would help in an investigation of stolen parts, maybe more so than it would actually deter people from selling the parts. Yeah. Again, it doesn't really hamper the existence of chop shops any more so than, again, paired parts are annoying to work with. So the one thing I will mention is that that activation lock system is something that repair shop owners are not super wild about and right to repair advocates are not super wild about.

1:06:09Oh, interesting. Why? Because it means that, you know, abandoned phones or just any kind of phone that is not stolen, but, you know, doesn't have an owner anymore, it's sort of lost forever. The activation locking is pretty bulletproof. So if someone brings a phone into a repair shop and never comes back for it, there's not much that the repair shop owner can do with that. Even if they've done all of their due diligence to try to return that to the owner, that phone basically has to be scrapped for parts or tossed. That always makes me think of like at The Verge, obviously we get tons of review units of gadgets and every once in a while somebody will, you know, put their data on a phone or a tablet or a laptop or whatever, lock it with a passcode and then leave The Verge.

1:06:53and so we have this closet full of devices that literally no one can access we can't access them we can't send them back to the company to have some way in like this stuff is permanently tied to someone's pin code that they set up you know in a moment of just sort of randomly setting up a device and you forget how especially do you remember on old android funds you had to draw the shape yeah yeah totally of the unlock uh if you didn't have one of those that was the one you always did i guarantee you 50 of the time you would forget what you did because you're constantly setting up new funds, which on the one hand, huge security win.

1:07:25On the other hand, total disaster. And so I can imagine that being a problem for basically anyone. Like I have a drawer full of smartphones because of what my life is. And there's probably at least a handful of them that neither I nor anyone else will ever get into ever again. Well, clearly what we need is a verge chop shop. Like we just need to start selling parts from all of the random gadgets that we've accumulated. Listen, you just saved the media business right there at Will Pour. Always happy to help. All right. If you want to reach Will on all the Right to Repair stuff, you're covering this basically for the rest of the year, I think.

1:08:01This is like a thing you're going to be interested in and presumably forever, but definitely for the rest of this year because we both feel like this is a big year. This is why I don't, I never wanted to have a beat because I wanted to just do a story and move on with my life. But yes, I'm the Right to Repair guy forever. I love this for you. How can the people reach you if they have other questions? Will.Pour at TheVerge.com. P-O-O-R.

1:08:23Will, thank you as always. Yeah, later.

1:08:29All right, that is it for the Vergecast today. Thank you to everybody who was on the show, and thank you as always for listening. There's lots more on everything we talked about, the Fuji camera, Mia's flip story, all this stuff about right to repair, all of it at theverge.com. We'll put some links in the show notes, which we're putting into full posts. Leave us comments, tell us everything you want to see. Read theverge.com. As always, if you have thoughts, questions, feelings, or things you want to see in the X107, you can always email us at vergecast at theverge.com or keep calling the hotline 866-VERGE11.

1:09:01Like I said, we try to do at least one hotline question every week, and we're going to probably do a hotline episode coming up in the very near future. So keep all your questions coming. We love hearing from you. This show is produced by Andrew Marino, Liam James, and Will Poore. The Vergecast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Neil, I, Alex, and I will be back on Friday to talk about AI, more Google naming weirdness, MWC, and a whole bunch more. We'll see you then. Rock and roll.

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