The best streaming services in 2023

26:27It doesn't matter. Like, yeah, it's football. I'm buying football. Alex, did you have live TV on your list at all? Kind of. I feel like if you don't care about sports, why would you? I mean, I've got Paramount Plus. I've got another pick potentially. But yeah, I don't really care about sports. So I don't really care about most live TV. The$75 a month for live TV is not blowing your mind? No. Okay. I just pirate it. I mean, I can just watch it over the air. Over the air. You haven't drafted your Plex server yet. Don't forget. It's still out there. All right. Well, then let's move on. What's your next pick?

26:59Okay. This one's a toughie. I'm going to do something really... Speaking of live TV, I'm going to do something really cheap. I'm going to do not Plex, but Channels, which is a DVR service because it can work with TV everywhere. So anything that potentially has TV everywhere accounts, I can DVR those. But then you need a cable subscription. Not necessarily. It's not just cable. It's a bunch of other stuff too. Oh, I see. I think it might work with Paranal Plus. I can find out. But then it also gives me all the live TV and it gives me access to Tubi and all of those things, which gives you CNN and all of that.

27:32Yeah, wait. So explain how channels works for people who don't know. This is like deep streaming nerd stuff. You got to walk us through it. So it's basically a DVR service. And you can plug in, if you've got an HD home run tuner, you just plug that in and it automatically pulls down anything you get over the air. And you can DVR that. But you can also attach M3U playlists, which is what Tubi and Pluto and all of those free services offer. So you can then have all of those channels as well and just like watch all of the channels like you watch normal TV. So I can watch all of the Carol Burnett show I want.

28:12And that's all I care about in the world. This is a power move. This definitely like violates the spirit of the game, but I like it. So we're going to allow it. Yeah, this is great. You should definitely draft a kicker in the first round. I don't know. Yeah, I'm just drafting all the teams all at once. Yeah, all of them. It's an absolute cheat. And if you tell me no, I'll accept it. I'll accept it. No, this is absolutely, this is a paid streaming service. It's in the rules. Yeah, this totally counts. Yeah, it's a paid service. And it requires way more work and effort than any of the other ones we've discussed here so far.

28:45I've never gotten past the sort of like initial setup hurdle of channels. Because it is, like you said, you need special hardware. You need to like have done real work to get it set up. Once it's like up and running, is it easy? Or do you have to like Tamagotchi style tend to your channels? Yeah, it's totally easy. Like I was getting there was some sport. I don't remember which one that my brother couldn't get with Fios at his house, but I could get it over the air. And so I just sent him the code, like the IP address for my server. And he was just watching his sport live and was totally fine.

29:19And he lives many miles away from me. So it works super, super easy once you get it set up. I mean, I do feel like anything that starts with the phrase, I sent him the IP address of my server, is objectively not super, super easy. Yeah, it was just like a phone number. He's just like, I need a number for this. What's the number? And I send him the number and he's like, okay, done. That's fair. Type these numbers. Yeah. So it works. It works great. Okay. But you do have to get it set up. We probably should have said at the top that we all get the over the air broadcast channels for free, right?

29:51Yeah. You can't help but have those. They're just there. Yeah, you can't draft an antenna. Yeah, right. You can't draft an antenna. You just have one. So I'm just enjoying all of them, waiting for ATSC 3.0 to save our lives. It's never going to happen. I look forward to you drafting ATSC 3.0 every draft for the next 20 years. Just throwing away all of your picks on that one. I get two picks now, and I have three that I'm choosing from, and I need the two of you to help me. We're just going to talk through this together. I'm your enemy. No, just we're just we're going to talk this through. It's ultimately my decision.

30:25And I know you're lying to me. So we'll get there. So there's there's Netflix, there's Amazon Prime Video and there's Discovery Plus. These are the three I'm debating between. Wow. Really? These are all the kind of like volume plays, right? Like Prime Video just has a billion movies to watch. Most of them are bad, but they're there. Netflix has infinite stuff, including like every bad reality show that I like right now. And then Discovery Plus is basically, for me, it's like the HGTV and murder shows for my wife service. So these all kind of serve the same purpose. But you already have YouTube, right?

31:02Like YouTube has all the HGTV kind of shows, only they're made by, they're like uglier because they're made by just a dude in his house. Yeah, there's just worse. Like I have watched a lot of the Architectural Digest celebrities show you their house tours. I love those videos. Yeah. But sometimes I want to see people try and fail to flip their own house. It's very important to me. I think I have to pick Netflix here just because Netflix is like, yeah, it's both a giant of the space and also just has a mountain of content that really nobody else can touch. This is your background music choice. This is what you're saying.

31:37You just want stuff that's on. Yeah, this is my like something good to watch, but I don't have a specific desire for what I want to watch. Cause the flip side is like Apple TV plus is still sitting there. Right. And Apple TV plus is like three shows that I love and that's it. That's the whole service. Yeah. That's the, I'm drafting content. This is, this is why I asked Alex that question earlier, right? Like you can either draft content or you get to this point and you're like just stuff. Yeah. And I think, I think for me, I'm still in the just stuff. Uh, I just don't have enough show loyalty is the thing that I'm realizing.

32:12Like I don't have that many things that I care so much about that. I can't like I use the first pick of the draft on stuff like that's what it's just stuff like I get I feel you I think what I'm gonna do here is I'm gonna do Netflix and I'm gonna do Discovery Plus and I now have just several lifetimes worth of relatively mediocre stuff to watch uh and also whenever the next squid game comes out I have that disclosure we I'm a Netflix EP this show is called the future of and David should watch it it's very good I can watch it now I'm the only one of us who's allowed to watch it from now on. Yeah.

32:45So there we go. I took it. I have Netflix. This is good. I feel better now. I was doing bad after two rounds. Now I feel like I'm winning. It wasn't even on my list. Netflix wasn't on your list. It wasn't even on my list. Wow. I got really mad. They canceled some show I liked. And so I stopped watching it for like three weeks and I was like, I don't actually miss it that much. So that has been consistently my thing. I will say the reason I was bummed to not get HBO Max was that it's really the only one that I would like super super notice if i didn't have it anymore yeah all the rest are like varying levels of good shows but hbo max is the one that's like like i watch succession religiously and almost all of the shows that i watch religiously on purpose are on hbo which is crazy and wild and kudos to hbo for continuing to be the only one to do that but yeah netflix is like it's just a lot of stuff and it's better stuff than most of the other companies stuff but it's still just stuff Yeah.

33:39So I think I feel good about that. I'm taking Netflix for 20 bucks a month and Discovery Plus for seven bucks a month. And now my wife has all of the murder documentaries she could possibly want. You're welcome, Anna. I love you. Here's a question. Did you expect Netflix to fall this far? I definitely did, is what I'll tell you. It's on my list, but it was like a late round, nice to have pickup. Well, so that was the thing that was most surprising to me in going through this, was how few incredibly compelling reasons there were to pick Netflix. And this is the thing we've talked about a lot on this show, right?

34:11Netflix is great at having lots of shows and being available everywhere, and its app works pretty well. But they're still in search of the things that draw people to come to it on purpose and really create cultural moments. They've had some wins. Squid Game was huge. Tiger King was huge. They have these beats. Yeah, Stranger Things Wednesday Outer Banks. If you're a teenager in America, they've got you. I've been watching The Night Agent recently. It's very good. It's just the pulpy spy show, but it's excellent. But yeah, I don't know. I just feel like part of this, I'm definitely holding out hope that the next Gray Man movie on Netflix is better than the first one because I love that book series and I hate that movie.

34:51No, no, this whole thing that they do where they're like, rich people make movies for lots of money. The Rock, you have an idea. Put Gal Gadot, like stop it. Like you don't know what you're doing. Yeah, none of them have been any good. What was the Michael Bay one with the numbers in the title? Oh, was it Six Underground? Yes, the numbers in the title. That's what I got for you. That movie, like the description of Six Underground is like meant for me specifically as a person. Yeah. And you don't have any recollection of that happening to you at all. No, I really don't. It was it was bad is all I remember.

35:22But I feel good about picking it up here because I feel like I'm always going to have something to watch and it'll always be fine. Totally adequate content. All right. So now we are we are into round four already. Alex, you're up next. What do you got? Ooh, I'm going to go Criterion. Oh. I pay for it already. I really enjoy it. It's probably got the best set of Hong Kong action films that you can find in streaming. It's really hard to find those in streaming. And it's actually got a whole bunch of them, especially like a bunch of Michelle Yeoh stuff is just popped up on there. It's got a lot of like old classic musicals, which that's like, some people watch YouTube.

35:58I just go and like watch specific dance scenes from old classic musicals and I can just do that on Criterion and it's got a bunch of documentaries like I'm enjoying my choice this is a good pick I didn't even have Criterion on my list but that's a that's a really good pick and Criterion also does a really good job with like they have a lot of bonus features they do cool like behind the scenes stuff it's like it is probably like the film buffs most film buffiest yeah there's like Like a ton of movies on there I will never, ever watch. But I like that I could if I really wanted to. If I want to go watch some French New Wave, I can do that.

36:33I'm not going to. But I like that I know I can. But you can. Neela, did you have Criterion on your list? I did not. Yeah, you should have waited on Criterion. It's a good pick, but it had not even occurred to me to think about it. Once we get in these rounds, it's all bets are off. Like Alex is just off in the woods. She's like, all right, channels and the Criterion streaming service. Like wee! Over in a quarter. I'm having a great time. No, it's an excellent pick, by the way. I think that's very smart. It's just a big nerdy art pick. And ironically, maybe the single most likely candidate to still be around a bunch of years from now.

37:03Like, I don't know if I would pick against Criterion in this longevity fight. Yeah, because they got killed once and they came back. Like, yeah, they're going to they're going to live forever now. People still like black and white movies, including my father-in-law, who every time we go visit is like, have you seen this movie from 1936? And I was like, nope, haven't seen it. He's like, well, let's watch it tonight. So I'm getting a film education. It's lovely. All right. Now, O 'Neil, you get two now. Wait, I feel like this is unfair because you and I keep getting two in a row and Alex is going in between us.

37:32I'm like, hi. Yeah, but it means we have to wait longer. Yeah. I feel like this draft order makes more sense when you have more people. I will say, I think Alex has gotten every single thing she wanted. So I don't feel bad for Alex. You guys are off in sports land over there and I'm a little gremlin. I'm like doing strategy. All right. I have a rules question. she said this about youtube that you get a music service for free are we only drafting video services or do i have to put a music service in the mix if you want a music service you can draft a music service but if i don't like are we just assuming that everyone has a spotify subscription on the side or if i don't draft one do i not listen to music if you don't draft one you get ad supported pandora that's that's that's the baseline all right just i that was important because you you took youtube music yeah all right then i'm taking apple music easy i knew i should have picked that last.

38:22Why Apple Music? I'm an Apple Music person. I think the interface is calmer. It doesn't seem like the music industry is perpetuating some sort of three-card Monty situation with me every time I open it. Fair. I like that they have lossless. I can't tell you if I can actually hear it or not, but I like that it's there. It's like a binky for me. And, you know, I'm an old head, so it sort of seamlessly imported my iTunes library from way back. Then I still just like gaze upon it from time to time. Yeah. How much of the music, service choice is like inertia as opposed to anything else. Cause I even had this thought when I picked YouTube and got YouTube music, I was like, do I still need to pick Spotify?

39:00Cause I've like had Spotify for 10 years and it's going to be a gigantic pain in the ass to switch. Is it just the switching costs? Like if you were starting over, would you still pick Apple music? Well, it depends. I think the switching cost, it's not money, right? It's like, well, have my music. Like I am not a curated playlist person unless I'm just like yelling into voice assistant to start playing some music. Sure. I'm like, I'm going to listen to this album. I want to listen to these songs. So there's just a part of me that's very much, it's hard to switch unless you know that I want the entire Clash catalog, the entire Cure catalog.

39:34I'm still there. I'm still doing that thing. And so if that was easier, I would happily switch. But having to open an app and go tell it which 18 records I want to pre-populate and have downloaded again is a very high switching cost. And I don't have to pay it without the music. All right. Neela, you have another pick, but we're going to pause between your picks again. We're going to take one more break and then we're going to come do the last round. And then all the insane cleanup we have to do to make any of this make any sense. We'll be right back.

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42:30all right we're back let's just recap we've done four rounds we have one more round to go so far neil i has picked tiktok the disney bundle youtube tv and apple music and just based on my math here is spending like a little over a hundred dollars a month so far so great job i'm living the brand name lifestyle man i'm the luxury mall you really are you it's really true alex has picked HBO Max, Paramount Plus slash Showtime, the Channels app, and the Criterion Collection, because Alex exists on a different planet from the rest of us. Alex lives in Brooklyn. That's true. And Alex is spending in the realm of like$45 a month, somewhere in that range.

43:09I have YouTube, Peacock, Netflix, and Discovery Plus because I live in the Midwest. I am an American mom. You got the little haircut to the side. Yeah. And let's see, I'm spending 60 bucks all in. So I would say it's very unlikely that Nilay loses the who spends the most. So congrats to Nilay already. And now we are on to our fifth and final round. Nilay, you're up. What do you got? I'm picking between two. They're radically different, but I'm going to do it. I'm just going to say this out loud. I'm picking my buddy Vipin's Plex server. It's really good. I can just text him. Tell us about Vipin's Plex server.

43:50So I've known Vipin for a long time. He's been running this thing for a long time. It's all automatic. It's all legal content. It's just Linux distributions. And whenever I want a new Linux distribution, I just text him and it appears. Channels does that too. You don't have to ask questions about where they come from. Look, every now and again, I'm like, oh, I need the latest version of Red Hat. Vipin's daughter is about the same age as my daughter. So it's often that he has the same needs of Linux on his Plex server. how are vipin's metadatas my understanding is that uh much of the metadata cleanup you need to reliably distribute linux around your home is automated sometimes you just want to watch linux you know what i mean sometimes it's friday night and you just want to put on linux and watch it for two hours every now and again you're just like uh yeah are you paying for plex pass uh no no no no So no offline?

44:47No. This is just a clean-up pick at the end here. You draft your first-round quarterback and you pick one in the seventh round just to put some competition and make sure. That's why I'm doing this. I like it. What was your other choice if you didn't pick that? Hilariously, randomly, Sirius XM. What? Yeah. And that's straight up. There's like three shows that Becky listens to that are only on Sirius. You just almost picked Apple Music and Sirius XM back-to-back. Do you live in a car? I picked the general hilarity of the linux conversation over the actual need of making my wife happy What does she listen to on sirius?

45:22There's like a bunch of comedy podcasts that she listens to on sirius. They're only on sirius So she like that's why we have it and then I do actually live in the car And so I listen to a lot of sirius in the car. What's your go-to? What do you listen to? Are you a yacht rock guy? Not yet rock uh, lithium the obviously the alternate rock. Oh and uh first wave Nice, you can tell where my music tastes like fully lie The other thing that's completely insane to do, if you have a serious subscription, you spend a lot of time in the car and you just need voices, is you can listen to CNBC as an audio stream.

45:51And that is the most insane podcast that you can listen to. Like Jim Kramer at eight in the morning, just like yelling about money is like, I definitely don't feel sleepy. I'll tell you that much. And it's Jim Kramer saying, look at this chart. And you saying, Jim, I can't. Yeah, exactly. Can't see the chart. It is a vastly different experience to listen to it as an audio feed in the morning. Okay. I just want to say about SiriusXM that I bought a car, which meant that I got three free months of SiriusXM, which I used zero times because I couldn't even figure out how to set it up. And then since it elapsed, I would say I either get a phone call or a piece of physical mail from SiriusXM asking me to resubscribe every single day.

46:31And I have now become resolute that I will never, ever, ever listen to SiriusXM as long as I live. I refuse. Yeah, but I'm commuting from the woods to the city once a week, so I spend five hours in a single day in the car often, and it's great. But why? Honestly, for the purpose of this draft, that's very utilitarian. We're making entertainment here, and it's Vipin's Plex server. Which I'm assuming is free. Vipin doesn't charge you server fees. Again, we're friends for a long time. It all evens out in the end. All right. I've bought him a lot of drinks over the years. We're putting a zero next to Vipin's Plex server.

47:05we'll put we'll put 99 cents because you have to buy him a beer every once in a while cost 99 cents a month all right uh all right last pick alex what do you got what's the what's the apple service thing that's the apple music and the apple tv apple one apple one that's good that's a good pick gonna spend a bunch of money and do that one because i too like apple music more than spotify and apple music classical i've actually been using that way more than i thought i would and then I think Apple TV is like it's got good content. What do you watch? What are your shows? Really into Dickinson I loved that when it came on Severance for All Mankind The Morning Show?

47:44I don't watch The Morning Show, that's a lie but it's there. Ted Lasso I haven't watched a season of Ted Lasso, I think that says a lot It hasn't even occurred to me to spend time doing it. Yeah. It's fine It's a show. You know what is good is Hello Tomorrow. Is it actually good? Weird, but delightful I've only watched like four episodes, but it's very good. Shrinking, also very good. This is the thing about Apple TV Plus. It doesn't have that much stuff, but it's like good show to bad show ratio is probably higher than any other platform I can think of. Like Dickinson is a show I will rewatch.

48:15It's one of my rewatch shows at this point. I just, I love it. And then For All Mankind, like, it's great. You watch people get progressively worse makeup as they pretend to age 10 years every season and then go into space with iPods. It's rad. Alex, that was a really good pick. I'm sort of annoyed because you also, for Apple One, you get Apple Arcade and you get a bunch of iCloud storage that you will never use. But that's a pretty good pick. If iCloud storage is in, then Alex is finally, with the last pick, snaked the most important pick in the draft. Yeah, you guys are all going to be getting that obnoxious iCloud notification now.

48:51I don't think iCloud storage accounts. If not, we need to redo this whole thing. I'm going to take Dropbox Business as my last pick. okay so what's your final one i have two left on my list which serve very different purposes for me one is amazon prime video which was what i was going to pick if i didn't get youtube because it's another one that's just like a big bunch of content plus of music service for free so that was exciting and then there's hulu with live tv which i want to pick because i like hulu because it also has a couple of my like endlessly re-watched shows and because i need live sports I think I'm going to pick Hulu.

49:26I think Hulu with live TV, which is 70 bucks a month. It comes with, well, okay, here's a rules clarification question. If I sign up for Hulu with live TV, I also get the Disney bundle. I like back into the Disney bundle. Does that count? Wait, there's no way to get Hulu with live TV without getting Disney Plus? No, you just get it for free. It's 70 bucks a month. They're like, sure, have Disney. You want some Star Wars? Yeah, I think this is allowed. Okay, good. I came at Hulu the other way. If I hadn't blown the salary cap with Sunday ticket, we would be competing here and I think it would be fair.

49:56Okay. All right. Good. I buy it. Then yeah, I'm taking Hulu with live TV, 70 bucks a month. I get Disney plus, I get ESPN plus, I get New Girl, which is just about to leave Netflix and go to Hulu, which is another one of the shows I've watched 700 times. Schitt's Creek is there. It's another one I've watched. Oh my God. This is an incredible sleeper final pick. Oh yeah. I feel really good about this. But like Nila and I both have access to that. He can just hit up his buddy. Can I just get Zippin's? My last pick is Neelai giving me Vipin's number. That's my final pick. All that's on there is Linux, you guys.

50:29Just love that red hat. I really, like, I did not mean to do this. I accidentally ended up with, like, the most down-the-middle set of streaming services. This is really upsetting. All right. So we have done five picks. Congratulations to everybody. We completed the draft. Andrew, do you have a cool last sound for the end of the draft?

50:54Andrew, you've been keeping track of everything. All the math, all the money. Total it up for us. How are we doing? Okay, so Nilai, despite picking two streaming services that did not cost any money, collectively,$104.98. A month. Plus the$289 for the Sunday ticket, which would be$393.96. One-time payment of that$289, but still. Alex, it's lowest here at$63.92. Good work. Frugal. David, you really added it up with Hulu at Live TV coming at$129.95. Whoa. Oof. A month. I got football and a kind of cheaper monthly. Picking Netflix was a mistake now that I'm looking at it. $20 for Netflix was a bad use of$20 a month.

51:45YouTube premium family is a lot of money. Yeah. But the reason, okay, let me defend family real fast. I don't have to watch ads even when Anna wants to watch YouTube, which is worth the extra money. That's true. That's true. But okay, so that means, Alex, you get the free pick here at the end. Ooh. Anything you want. Sky's the limit. Okay. Does this one count? Libro FM. Oh my God, Alex. I got to read my books. So it's an audiobook service. Doesn't count. Doesn't count? Okay. I don't know why. It just doesn't. I just can't. No, absolutely. Wait, is that an audiobook streaming service or is that just like a book?

52:20It's an audiobook service and you get like a credit to buy a book each month. No. Okay. All right. Cool. That's great. I still can read books on my own time. I just needed to make sure I was going to be allowed to read books. What's the Microsoft streaming cloud thing for games? Oh, that's interesting. I think of it as Microsoft xCloud, but whatever it's actually called now, that one. I just call it Game Pass. I think it has a more complicated name, but everybody just calls it Game Pass. Yeah. That's also a good way to put it. Yeah, Game Pass. You ended up with the two game services. With Apple One, you got Apple Arcade, and now you're going with Game Pass.

52:56Yeah. And then I play the other games while I'm watching my Criterion. Really good wild card pick at the end, man. That is a really good pick. It was either that or Plex, but I already did Channels, which gives me the same benefit as Plex, but a better DVR layout. Yeah. Stuff still sometimes adds to it when I don't DVR it. It's wild. It's crazy. This means that Amazon Prime went completely unpicked. Yeah. Which I think is not totally surprising. How often are you like, oh man, I just really got to watch like extraction, but even more boring and on a worse UI. Again, because Becky is so into comedy, every now and again, there's like one comedy special on Amazon Prime.

53:36Yeah. I think that's it. I'm really angry at this pick, Alex. That was a really good pick that I feel like I, if I had thought of that, I probably would have picked a while ago. Game Pass is good. And also like a strong future bet. Like if we come back and the question is like, how did all our bets do? Yeah. Game pass is going to exist. Yeah. Like the majority of mine will still be around except for probably my first two, maybe. I feel great about my draft. This is a good, this is a solid year ahead. On my list, the only things that went unpicked that I still have on my list are nobody picked Prime Video.

54:06Nobody picked Spotify, which is very interesting. We're all happy with our other weird services or free Pandora. and and then i have a bunch of like i wrote down you know freebie and tubi and pluto tv and the roku channel and all that stuff and sling and nobody picked any of that i'm not super shocked but see i get i get the roku channel because it does an m3u playlist so i can watch it anytime on channels yeah here's what i'm saying if this drafted had like two or three more people in it i think the drafting around those channels would have been intense especially because then they would have been how you would strategically have lowered the cost to try to get that extra pick.

54:45All right. Well, next year, this draft will include 13 people. We're going to have a 32 team draft next year and everybody gets five picks. It's going to get outrageous. Although I will say, even in this draft, David, I felt as though I was stealing picks from you. I don't think I did that really, except maybe for Sunday ticket. Neither of us was competing with Alex. No. Alex is fully trust the process. Whatever is going on over there. I will say I was hoping that my three and four picks were going to be YouTube and TikTok. That was going to be the turn I made at three and four. I thought one of you would take HBO.

55:18One of you would take Disney and I would get YouTube and TikTok and just like laugh at you old people about how I understand the future. And it didn't really work out that way, unfortunately. No one took Instagram reels. Well, you took TikTok. So you basically took Instagram reels. But if you want if you wanted that thing, right? You want diet TikTok. You take Instagram reels. True. I like that I'm not going to know anything about the real world ever with my picks. I don't know what's happening in the world. Which is not that different from what you came into this with, so you're good there. I've learned nothing about the draft in this whole process, and I'm not going to with my picks.

55:53All right, we should go. We're going to do this again next year, and we're going to have to come up with some score by which we see how we did this year. Also, today, as this show goes live, there's an event at which HBO Max and Discovery Plus may cease to be what they currently are, so this might all get real weird real fast. We'll have lots more to talk about. Thank you both for doing this. This was very fun. This was great. Yeah, super fun.

56:20All right, that is it for the Vergecast today. Thanks to Neelai and Alex for being here and going through this crazy process with me, and thank you so much for listening. There's a whole lot more from this conversation and all of our streaming coverage on TheVerge.com. We put some links in the show notes, but there's all kinds of stuff all over the website. And I really, really, really want to know what you think of our picks. Who won the draft? What was the most surprising undrafted service? What obvious stuff did we miss? Who's the stupidest of the three of us? You can email us all of your thoughts at vergecast at theverge.com or call the Vergecast hotline 866-VERGE-11.

56:55We love hearing from you and I want to hear all of your thoughts on the streaming draft, including ideas for next year, because like I said, I intend to do this every year until the heat death of the universe. This show is produced by Andrew Marino and Liam James. Brooke Minters is our editorial director of audio. The Vergecast is a Verge production and part of the Fox Media Podcast Network. We'll be back on Friday with Nilay and Alex to talk about what's going on with Elon Musk and Twitter, electric cars, Microsoft Teams, and a whole bunch of other stuff. See you then. Rock and roll.

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