‘The Pitt’ S2E14, ‘The Boys’ S5, and ‘Your Friends and Neighbors’ S2. Plus, ‘The Punisher: One Last Kill’ Trailer and ‘Top Chef’ S23E5.

22:00Perhaps for me, and this is a factor with a lot of TV shows, is as the character palette expanded and it went to A, B, C, and D plots, the way I feel like a lot of long-running Apple shows sometimes do and the way many television shows sometimes do, I found myself just less urgently watching it. and then they bring on James Marsden for the second season. I haven't gotten a chance to check it out yet, but do you feel like they are setting this one up for three, four seasons of Jon Hamm looking great and seeing their cool cars?

22:31Andy Greenwald:What's remarkable about the show, and I kind of respect this, is that there is not even a shadow of an attempt to pretend that it's going to, anyone's learned anything or anything's changed. And they brought Mun back, right? Yes. Even though she murdered her husband. Well, no, she, spoiler, she didn't. Oh, okay. But she did then try to, he wasn't, it was a, he died by suicide. Oh, but then she tried to frame Chris because he broke up with her. Happens. Just ask Nikki Glaser. I'm going to click now. I give the show credit for being absolutely clear-eyed about, like, we're just going to hit a reset button and do it again.

23:13um

23:14Andy Greenwald:shows lesser shows and frankly better shows have tied themselves in remarkable knots trying to get themselves back to some starting point or to wrestle with the really challenging uh corners that they've painted themselves into this show does none of that um in the opening moments Coop looking amazing is on a beautiful vacation in Mexico and he's drinking whiskey and women are flirting with him again so thank god for that yeah I think within that comment is also my ongoing criticism of the show. Oh, I should say, if you have, what is, you know, in Ferris Bueller, when he's like talking about the car and he's like, if you have the opportunity to drive it, you really should.

23:52Andy Greenwald:That's how I feel about casting James Marsden. Yeah. At this point, like if you have the opportunity, it is so choice. Get wild, get out on your cast. He livens up every second of the show that he is in. And this is just through one episode that's been up. Playing the part of an incredibly rich, incredibly charming guy who maybe has some secrets, but who cares? Because he throws good parties. is not, I would say, a challenge or outside of his wheelhouse. He's phenomenal. This show is also the kind of show where you introduce him, and he says, like, my name's Owen Ash, but everyone calls me Ash.

24:26Andy Greenwald:And he's like, Andrew Cooper, but everyone calls me Coop. And they're like, let's touch tips, basically. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, that's the level that we're dealing with here. But let's sword fight, too, because isn't he the adversary, kind of? Not yet, but probably, yes. I say this with affection and respect because there are a lot of people involved in this show that I like and respect and care about a lot like Jonathan Tropper is a really nice guy when I've interviewed him my good friend Zach Galler is doing beautiful work as the DP on this show Amanda Peet is on this show and she's really good the way that you were describing DTF St.

25:00Andy Greenwald:Louis which I thought was also very considerate and delicate where you were like perhaps this is I think it's a me problem that ultimately may be how I feel about this show because fundamentally like it's not just that I bump on the show's aesthetic choices like I think that the needle drops and the still doing narration the narration and also the like just the way like the people on the show have no taste but there doesn't seem to be any opinion about that I said that last year as well like what's his name Marston throws a party in his giant mansion that features like a gyrating woman playing electric violin and a DJ and all the rich people are like, this electric violin is amazing.

25:44Andy Greenwald:But I'm like, does anyone have an opinion about how stupid this looks or about how they look? Can I just ask you a quick question? Yeah. Who is the hip hop cellist? Miri Ben-Ari? She wasn't a cellist, she was the violinist. Violinist, hip hop violinist. She was all over College Dropout. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would have actually, I'm curious her thoughts about Kanye these days, judging by her name. You know what I mean? She's probably got some thoughts. I was just thinking about, that was really funny. The hip-hop violinist? We just had a hip-hop violinist, and we were like, this really takes things to the next level.

26:16Andy Greenwald:What about when we had a hip-hop butler? Remember that dude, Fonsworth Bentley? Oh, yeah. He's like, I'm a butler with an umbrella. And we're like, that's sick. That's so cool. I honestly can say, as somebody who was in the shit back then, I never had an opinion on Fonsworth Bentley. You don't have an opinion? Yeah, I was like, this is a no-go zone for me. I'm more focused on... I'm sorry, I'm racking these G-Unit mixtapes right now. I saw an Instagram video of a dude just getting excited at the 50 cent intro for his get rich and try trying. And he's just like. That was you back in the day. This is better than your friends and neighbors.

26:59Andy Greenwald:Honestly. Yes, it is. It's just the there's a moment. You know, the show just has it is a absolutely slippery, well put together. You can't get any purchase or grip around it because the characters don't really have any depth in terms of what they're fighting for. The stakes of the first season was how is Koop going to afford to maintain his lifestyle? And so his elder daughter, who is a legacy applicant, will get into Princeton and is also being recruited for tennis. And that is less interesting to me. and this idea that he's robbing his friends and neighbors first of all seems would be diminishing returns because how many friends and neighbors does he have to keep up his multi-million dollar lifestyle but he's got his friend the maid who's hooking him up with the intel that stuff sure but at a certain point I believe one of these friends and or neighbors would be like this spate of robberies has to be spooked I shall put in a state-of-the-art security system which to date has not happened I think my major issue with it was always that if you're going to put somebody in a criminal situation and are not going to play it for straight laughs.

28:08You're not going to make a comic satire of this world. And you're going to have him being hunted down by gangsters and getting into trouble with his pawnbroker and getting pulled into all these different scenarios where there's blood spilled. I think you have to kind of keep pushing to somewhere new every iteration. Look, not everything can be or should be Breaking Bad. but what Breaking Bad did was take a very basic idea not dissimilar from the one that your friends and neighbors is dealing with which is a guy who's fallen on hard times in terms of criminality to support his lifestyle but also mostly to support his family and every season, every episode, every decision that Walt made was related back to this cascading series of decisions.

28:53To your point about Coop being basically at zero starting season two exactly where he started season one which is quite comfortable which is quite comfortable and all the characters kind of like for some reason we all live around one another still like it just becomes like this now has kind of moved into like nightlight territory and I have other nightlights but some I know people who love this show really like this show

29:16Andy Greenwald:I think that's very very well said I think that there is I think there's a lot of there actually is a lot of there are a lot of interesting stories to be told about the current economy that aren't all necessarily from the perspective of the maids which would be a more interesting show but you could talk about and the show has given lip service to this idea of trying to keep up with the Joneses or whatever but ultimately the show doesn't seem to be that interested in that, it seems to be interested in humanizing masters of the universe inside of their mansions and inside of their middle age malaise which actually from the outside and I speak and by the way I'm saying this with a body riddled with middle age malaise I don't think it's as compelling perhaps as the people making the show believe it to be.

30:03Andy Greenwald:And I think ultimately that's a bummer. And so like there's a scene when all the fellas in the neighborhood are talking about their like rotator cuff injuries in the sauna and about the new guy who's moving in with all his money. And then they make a joke about making America great again. And they're like, oh, no politics in the sauna, boys. And at that moment, I wish the sinkhole from Dark Knight Rises would just open beneath Westchester. That was Bane. that was Bane blowing up Three River Stadium but he created a sinkhole with his explosions yeah oh you mean because a sinkhole is a natural phenomenon yeah in terms of all of these people dying it could be a sinkhole it would be funny if Bane was like I just happen to know that there will be a sinkhole right here under this football stadium that's actually kind of amazing if Bane just like read the weather reports and understood geology geology so deeply yeah uh yeah two thumbs down um I mean And I think you always keep your nose clean.

31:00Andy Greenwald:Like I think what you said makes more sense that ultimately this is a nightlight. And I think that my frustration with it is that it's not, for me, it is not light and charming enough to be a nightlight because it carries itself quite heavily. And the characters do things like in this episode, Coop's daughter has her interview in another mansion for Princeton because she's still not in. And the guy's like, what do you think about this? And she's just like, I don't think you really care what I think because you know your generation created this as a legacy project to reward itself so that people like me will get to do the same thing on the backs of all of the like unlike the immigrants and Jews and these people who aren't accepted by your institutions but also tennis and he's like whoa and then we move on to a different scene this version of the show is much more entertaining I just there's just a I'm eager to talk about euphoria I am but the only thing that I'll say is that I am here.

31:56Andy Greenwald:I'm interested in absolute unreality phony baloney if it has some aestheticism to it. Yep. And that was what my struggle. And perhaps that's why it paled in comparison. I didn't mean to talk this long about the show, about the second season of which I've seen one episode of. It's okay. I think we're talking more about like TV watching habits and what we go to television for. And there are times where I'm like, you know what? I really just want to be watching season five that we're on of Abbott. and I still think I've done every episode of Abbott. Like, I have time for that. That's big in my house.

32:31The girls love Abbott. But the one-hour dramedy where nothing really ever is of consequence is kind of like, I'm pretty allergic to it at this point, you know?

32:44Andy Greenwald:Yeah, and I am also finding that the show's vision of robbery, it's not like I'm some, like, I mean, I have seen the film Thief, but other than that, I don't really know. I'm not, I wouldn't claim any expertise. But in this episode, there's an attempt to bring Hoon Lee's character, he's an actor I really love, who plays Barney, his like financial whatever, financial advisor, into the criminal conspiracy. And in order to do that, you need to lay some track about why he would. And so within this episode, we meet his disapproving father-in-law who thinks that he's not, you know, making up money and whatever.

33:23Andy Greenwald:and so he has a kind of similar to Coop, like a fuck it, like let's do it the bad way. But I'm like, now I'm crunching the numbers and now you're splitting the income three ways. And at the end of season one, Coop turned down, as explained in this episode, a potential eight-figure annual salary. To go back to the office, right? To go back to the office and instead to just rob. And I'm like, look, no one will ever accuse me of being in a quant, but I just feel like the math isn't math in here, you know? let's talk a little bit about adjusting dude's spines blind thank you let's talk about the pit the penultimate episode written by Noah Wiley and directed by Uta Breischwitz was this a Noah written episode it was and it was 8pm we're still fucking here we're still we haven't punched out yet people are digitizing their charts it's weird that these last few episodes to me and especially this one I struggle to remember patience now because the character drama in the way that they have set up the end of the season.

34:22Yes, the character stuff's coming to the core. What are you still doing here?

34:25Andy Greenwald:Yes. And that's what everybody is asking them. Everybody is telling these doctors, you can go now, you can go now, you can go now. And they're still hanging out and they're still bantering and they're still talking about what this day has done to them. And we had two basically major reveals. Robbie explicitly talking about his suicidal ideation to Duke. this was what the pit does incredibly well I want to remember the name of the actor who plays Duke because it's somebody who I've seen a million times and a million things Jeff Kober and this is what this show does incredibly well he has been sitting on a hospital bed for nine hours and he has basically had the dramatic beat of Robbie don't forget about me here I am on this gurney well he had the nurse nurse movie thing.

35:14Sure, that was fun too. And he's like gotten this tough news about his this his heart problem, right?

35:21Andy Greenwald:It appears that he has the same aneurysm on the aorta that the professor who thought he had kidney stones who died and upset upset Ogilvy the Ogilvy plot line. Oh. It is a where they were just like we're just gonna give you this is a simple fix and it turned out because he didn't see the MRI or the CAT scan or whatever it was that's a ticking time bomb that can be seen and can be remedied. But this guy has been basically relegated to background player for this season and he gets one of the emotional payoffs of the season in this conversation with Robbie out in the ambulance bay. Robbie's bike has been hit.

36:02Very metaphorical.

36:03Andy Greenwald:Yeah, for real. And he is perhaps not going to be able to go on his trip. It turns out Duke's able to get it into good shape, good enough shape to ride, but he's like, hey, man, why don't you just let me take the bike back to my garage and in a couple of days I'll have it up and running. And Robbie is like, I have to go. Snoring? Gasping during sleep? Feeling fatigued? Wake up to ZepBound Terzepatide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. ZepBound is an injectable prescription medicine that may help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA.

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37:42Andy Greenwald:Zetbound and its delivery device base in QuickPen are registered trademarks owned or licensed by Eli Lilly and Company, its subsidiaries or affiliates. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Taxes, trust me, they sound far more complex than they actually are, and it's all thanks to TaxAct. They make it easy to do taxes online, offering step-by-step guidance so you can finish your taxes ahead of the April 15th deadline and get your maximum refund guaranteed. If you get stuck, just add expert assist, get unlimited help from a credentialed US-based tax expert. Visit taxact.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot.

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39:01it. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods Market Peach Apricot Rose Italian Soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with the yellow sales sign store-wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Oh, I have to go. I have to go. The revelation of this scene, I think everybody who's been watching the show knows how Robbie has been doing or feeling.

39:46And it's not altogether different than how he was feeling at the end of the first season up on the roof of the Abbott. But the revelation is that it's not the pit that's bothering him.

39:57Andy Greenwald:It's everything else. It's everything outside of the ED. And that it is a guy who, even though we get a little glimpse of his love life this season and a little bit of glimpse of his social life this season, it's all attached to the emergency department. It's all attached to that hospital. I just realized they call it ED so much because they don't want to give the estate of Michael Creighton anything. And every single time I'm like, I'm not talking about erectile dysfunction, but I'm trying to honor their wishes by calling it the ED. Midlife malaise comes for all shows. Yes. It's fine. And I thought this was a beautifully acted, beautifully written, beautifully executed scene that could have been way more like storming around and crying and him just being like, I don't know if I want to be here anymore, like be anywhere anymore was just really effective.

40:47Andy Greenwald:I'd note that Jeff Kober is an actor who's been acting for decades and has credits like from the 80s. he also is a this is from his Instagram bio embracing bliss author and podcaster actor meditation teacher tintype photographer I wonder I wonder if like he's he's got I'm just asking I wonder if he has a relationship with Noah this is what I mean I think that one of the low-key some of the it's a low-key brilliant part of the pit which is that Noah has been he's a native Angelino and he's been acting for so long, he has a community of people here that he wants to raise up, put on, whatever. And when you hear him talk about Sean Hattesey and their relationship, it's like we've always gotten along because we've known each other forever and we've, you know, at auditions or just being here.

41:40And we've, in passing,

41:43Andy Greenwald:we have a sibling-like relationship. So you put him on the show, it's just instant, instant. And I don't know if he knows this guy prior to the show, but that sense of like, this is someone who will bring the right energy, who will be able to just be present in limited screen time up until that moment with that depth of zen or calm or self-reflection that is needed. It's a subtle way to seed story on a show that doesn't have a lot of real estate for long scenes of dialogue or long speeches normally. I'm totally with you on the triumph of that scene and that will be and should be Noah's Emmy reel before he wins an Emmy again later this season.

42:23him going doctor the fuck up.

42:25Andy Greenwald:Oh, I kind of like that. Yeah. It reminded me of what you said to me last week about watching the terror. So I felt a little bit seen. I thought this episode was a really interesting case study in the best of the pit, this scene, and the entire slow moving catastrophe of the patient with the spinal injury. That's my kind of medicine. Outrageous. Yeah. This episode was also the worst of the pit in ways that took me out. Okay, I bet I can guess what this is. let's get into it. I mean, this is also why I love having this show in my life because we can granularly critique, point out, highlight Here's the thing.

43:02I know you're talking about Al Hashimi's reveal.

43:04Andy Greenwald:I'm not. Oh! I'm not. Okay. I'm not even. I'm not even. Oh! Oh, come on now. Was that from the Punisher trailer? I'm not familiar with the reference. Good. No. I was going to fight you on that. No, I thought that was fine. Okay. I felt, well there were a couple minor things one was when the tide goes out on the show in terms of momentum or a crush of patience or whatever and we have some character beats sometimes really good things come from it like the three residents sitting around the paper shredder all great the other thing that sometimes comes up and maybe this is what Noah wanted and Noah's the EP so that stayed in there was a lot of dated pop culture references in the script and it was a little quippy so there was the like okay guy playing Clue you know who doesn't have a clue you know and then there was the like oh Rumblefish totally let's make a Rumblefish reference is Rumblefish set in Pittsburgh no or is it set in Tulsa because it's S.E.

44:07Hinton

44:07Andy Greenwald:I would imagine so we can't we can't keep forgiving things because they're set in Pittsburgh like early in the season I was like this schmaltzy ballad and then we get all this feedback being like that was actually written by a Pittsburgh native singer-songwriter who's incredibly important and also puts french fries and sandwiches. And I'm like, okay, sounds good. I'm on, I love Pittsburgh. I feel like, hey, hey guys, big fan of Pittsburgh over here. Legitimately dope. Yeah. Great town, great ballpark. There was this zinger about the, about like, passion play and stuff. It just felt labored in the same way that the dialogue can feel labored when they do the turn to camera.

44:43Andy Greenwald:Actually, this is what happens when many women are misdiagnosed with heart attacks. We have a 50 % chance of 80 % of saving your life. But if we don't do it, it's 2030 that you're going to not be able to walk again. And then he turned to the women. The women were like, I too believe in living. Oh, yeah. I was like, okay. But that's also, that's the show. But I did feel, the big picture comment is that what you said at the beginning, that it is really interesting the way the show has done the opposite of what we expected, which is the tide has gone out at the end, right when we were expecting things to be crescendoing and what's left for us to pick through, like shells on the beach, or what do you call the beach of the three rivers as they come together?

45:27Oh, I don't know.

45:28Andy Greenwald:I don't know either. A tributary? Sure. Probably not. You know who we need? Geologist Bain. If you would like to dig deep and give. Well, you blew Pittsburgh up. If you consider Gotham-Pittsburgh, I... Yes, canonically. I understand that it's not supposed to be considered Pittsburgh, but to me it is something of a Pittsburgh stand-in. Because that's Heinz Ward out there. This probably isn't for this podcast. That's Heinz Ward out there! It is Heinz Ward. I know. He's running. He finishes the play. It's blown up. And then he turns around, right? And he's like, Oh, he's like, No! Oh, no! Ben Roethlisberger!

46:06Andy Greenwald:Not you! Jerome the Busbenist! Bing can take anyone but not Big Ben!

46:15Andy Greenwald:Canonically, Christopher Nolan's Gotham goes from Chicago to Pittsburgh in the span of two movies. Yes. Not just where he filmed it, but like just the vibes. Well, there's, I mean, this is also your MCU hopping from Atlanta to London now. Oh, did you know that? Get back to what you were saying though. What is left is a surprising amount of room for banter, some of which is successful, some of which isn't, for characters to reflect on what's happened or what hasn't happened in their lives, in their day, in their career. And that is interesting to watch. There's been some discourse this week about people saying, the pit isn't this, or the pit is this, or you guys are watching it wrong because you, straw audience members, think it's a prestige drama when in fact it's not.

47:03Andy Greenwald:It just nods towards some prestige elements in order to just do its meat and potatoes kind of storytelling. and I think the beauty of the show is that it is so successful at binding these two very disparate threads of storytelling and sometimes it succeeds in surprising ways and places the Duke scene is the type of scene that you know I don't know if I would have expected this show would have had time for if not in a coda to the season you know maybe in the park afterwards or something but they carved out space for it and it hit some of the other stuff less so. Okay. But which isn't to dismiss all the character stuff because I was referring to like the Duke Perla scene like these little moments.

47:46Andy Greenwald:Awesome. Yeah. Monica leaving for her life of Mahjong and Margaritas. Godspeed. Very fun. I mean I enjoyed the Mel McKay like Ren Faire bit where she's like maybe I should get really into Revolutionary War reenacting. They're like you should check that out. I also think that just generally the night shift being saltier and just not being as like teach first. Yeah. What was the line? Like, what did they say to one of the patients? Shut your fucking mouth, I believe, was the medical diagnosis for the guy with the flag in his lung. Cool. Different energy. At the end of last season, you have this mass shooting, you have this insane casualty event and it renders all of these characters shells of themselves.

48:34Robbie's up on the roof looking out and I think as audience members, we too are up on that roof with him after that first season. In this season, while the cyber attack or the shutdown in response to the cyber attack is complicated, it winds up probably costing a life in the English teacher because of lack of scans. It's ultimately probably more grinding for the characters than it is for the audience. I kind of forgot a couple of times that they were doing the filing system, you know, that they were doing

49:09Andy Greenwald:like semaphore to communicate what they were doing out there. And so I think that may be the root of what you're reacting to. Like, is that there is, this is now pure character being written rather than reacting to action. Yes, and the show is revealing itself as it necessarily had to. It's not a event series about one of the worst days in the history of the Pittsburgh Hospital. Yeah, it's not. It is an ongoing television show. Paradise. And even in his interviews, because I think he's getting a star in the Hollywood Walk of Fame, so Noah's doing some press, he was saying that he would imagine, which means he knows, because they're just about done writing season three, that they are probably just going to jump to winter just a couple months and not do a massive time jump.

49:52Andy Greenwald:So we will be, which probably serves them so they can continue some storylines in a more natural way. That's fine. I want to talk Langdon and I want to talk Al Hashimi. What do you want to do first? Toshiyashimi. Okay. This has probably been one of the more hotly debated characters and certainly new additions to the show. The way in which she reveals herself to Robbie at the end of the episode was probably a tad TV. You know, it was like, rather than just be like, I need to talk to you for a second. Here's my story. And I had meningitis when I was a kid. I have been having these episodes now a little bit more frequently.

50:36She does it by having him come in to give her a second opinion on a case history. And as he's reading the case history, midway through, he realizes it's her. And in the cliffhanger of the episode is, is this you, Bron? So Bron Alashimi is her name. I thought Sepide Moafi was quite good in that scene. Like her eyes told you everything you needed to know. And I, you know, it is among the best cliffhangers of a season of cliffhangers. I can't wait to hear this conversation did it land for you

51:05Andy Greenwald:yeah I think I like the show when it admits it's a TV show I don't mind the convention I would rather I prefer of the two modes of extreme storytelling that the show does I would prefer a dramatically staged cliffhanger to another chorus turns to camera to explain medical inequalities in this country I also think and we don't have we don't we're going to find out exactly what's going on with her because I think the report says that she suffered seizures as a child and then he says altered mental status from the infection and kind of there's some ellipses and that's when he turns yeah it would help me without even knowing what where this is going the idea that her sort of like preternatural calm and control is itself a performance and a choice within her performance if that makes sense if the character has something happening within her or some chaotic aspect of her health that needs to be managed that the fact that she has from day one presented herself as borderline robotic that helps me understand the performance choice because the character needs to do that in order to maneuver in the world.

52:27Andy Greenwald:That helps. I think the flip of that would be is if you feel like you're seeing her and because he is the center of the show, you kind of naturally gravitate to his POV. If you're seeing her through Robbie's POV, really, with the exception of Santos, everybody likes her except for him and except for Santos and Robbie. And Santos doesn't like her because she threatened her with a bad time with the records keeping and charting. And Robbie just seems to be like, I came in here looking for a huge fucking showdown with every single person I work with today. And my replacement can't be good because then I don't need to be here.

53:04And if I'm not here, I know what's waiting for you on the other side of the doors. I needed it. He almost needed it to be a disaster today so that he could be like, I guess I can't leave. So I think that I hear what you're saying. I will be curious too to see whether or not the diagnosis reveals a choice in performance but different people on this show seem to have like very different styles of of of doing their

53:29Andy Greenwald:parts you know by the way i i realized that when i was talking about the things that kind of bummed me like that that wasn't among them but there were a number of scenes that felt quite staged in terms of like the writer's room board says we have to get from a to b in this scene the the scene we're talking about the halashimi like it's a cliffhanger it has to have some drama to it well done no problem the the robbie and duke scene a lot has to come out executed i also i will say about the alashimi scene is that i felt like they leapt from these two are still kind of at each other's throats a little bit to like i respect you great great speech man come look at my my diagnosis like it they they skipped like they had to get there a couple of letters to get there yeah that's the way i felt about the whitaker langdon scene um where where whitaker first of all this entire scene is predicated on a Gilligan's Island reference that I know Whitaker was brought up on a farm, but...

54:21I made a Gilligan's Island reference on the Rewatchables last night that fucking died. I tried to compare basic instinct to Gilligan's Island, and it was just like, I honestly thought I was going to have a heart attack. It was so quiet in the audience.

54:35Andy Greenwald:Do you remember when we started reading Bill Simmons, and he was constantly talking about the white shadow? And we're like, sure. Because that was our, like, that's the line? And then we're like, that's ridiculous makes reference to elf you know what i mean but like i think that line has passed now and so whitaker i know he grew up on a farm and maybe he had like limited broadband but like i don't think he was force-fed gilligan's island reruns at four o 'clock the way we were when we came home from school so that was that was one thing but just the explosion happening in that moment it's the nature of the show that you kind of have to go along with as much as the the nurses explaining their plight.

55:15Andy Greenwald:Whitaker is a complicated character, a good actor. That's another side of the character. He was due for that. Here's where it fell. And they did the best they could with it, but it felt a little bit forced and shoehorned. And that's a good place as any to segue into the Langdon thing. What there was, I don't think, I guess my question is, am I alone in this or did you feel major relapse vibes happening in this episode? I would love to ask the, whether it's Noah or whoever about this. The pit weave is now kind of like a thing where it's like you think it's going to be Robbie who needs help, but what if it's Ashimi?

55:56I still think there are even a couple of other people in that department who might become bigger patients, I suppose, than Robbie. Langdon being like, I've tweaked my back. Oh, it's so hard. Like, I'm right over here by the pills. And then, like, the fake Whitaker being like, what are you doing, man? I'm taking Advil. And he's like, I'm taking Advil. And I also don't know necessarily that, like, one kind of, like, one in a thousand fix on a guy has fixed Langdon. I don't think the show is that simple to be like, he really can still be a doctor, so everything else is going to fall into place.

56:36Andy Greenwald:Yes. It was a lot of indicating stuff all happening at the same time in the same episode. I also, I just, please, everything about the show is so meticulous. They have to mess up Patrick Ball's hair more. This man has not actually been working for 15 hours. That takes me out. I think the most old-fashioned TV thing about the show is not that it is a medical procedural starring Noah Wiley. You never cease to surprise me about what's going to bother you. It is. Kaya made a note. Kaya, do you agree with me about this? She's not ready. Sure. She made us, she laughed. So I thought I had a fan here.

57:14Andy Greenwald:I thought I had some support. Just ruffle the man up a little bit. You're like hour three of a Trump speech. Like, you know, that's right. Everybody, Langdon's hair. But also, hour three of a Trump speech, no one's hair looks as good as Langdon's. You know what I mean? I don't know. I guess I was like, the back is such a big painkiller trigger. But he was on benzos, not painkillers. But I thought it was because of a back thing. Oh, that's right. Do you have any theories about Whitaker's missing badge and how that's going to come back to haunt us? I don't know. That's fucked up. Because I wondered whether or not when he was asking about the Advil, whether he was suspicious of Langdon taking his badge.

57:58Because Langdon also was like, retrace your steps, bro. And gaslighting him a little bit about it. I hope that's not the case. Whoa. and I wonder if now Whitaker is going to be like my badge is on the table here where Langdon was standing

58:15Andy Greenwald:and my badge is responsible for checking out 16 opioid pills but I also you know like look we still have the dangling we haven't gotten a lot of depth into what's going on with Santos other than the fact that she has this romantic relationship with Garcia that seems to be somewhat one-sided and that she has scars from cutting and that there is a very pointed moment where she takes like a kind of suture and scalpel kit out of a drawer. You know, I don't really know if they would go as far as to be like, not only did this guy relapse, he relapsed using his like co-workers ID card, thus like truly torpedoing.

58:57And then you start to get into like, they didn't really tell everybody that he did this. You know, Robbie would then be on the hook for that. I think even more like, Like, sometimes I have to remind myself that this is a TV show and not like Bergman, and we're just going to all start crying.

59:13Andy Greenwald:If you're reading the tea leaves of this season, and this is not meant to be a prediction because they very well may end it with something dramatic and surprising. And if they're coming back sooner, they may cliff it a little bit. They could. I think my sense of this season, this far into it, has been the writers and producers feeling confident, as they should, to experiment with the form that they've only just created and seeing if they can get away with quieting things just when our instinct is that they will be ratcheting up and that the season may end with some hollowed out Jesus Christ but we got to do it again tomorrow vibes.

59:54Andy Greenwald:Less, I mean, the first season was an enormous, hideous, violent, traumatic tragedy. Dana getting punched in the face. But they ended with a beer in the park. Sure. We did it. You know, and I don't know if the season's going to have that same triumph. I don't think so. But I do think one of their goals is to dampen or subvert our expectations. And so I think emotionally where it ends up will likely be different. And that's not necessarily in a place of dramatic violence coming home to roost with one of our characters. We'll have our finale pit coverage for next Thursday. And hopefully we'll have, I would love to have Noah back on the podcast.

1:00:30Andy Greenwald:Do we have two more? Nope. Next week's the finale? Yep. 9 p.m. April 16th. Hmm. We sure about that? Marisa Bella, I heard, was auditioning. It's 15 episodes a season, right? Do you want to talk briefly about Top Chef? Yeah, where are you at with it? Tell me. I guess I was wrong. And spoiler for this week's Top Chef, but I was like taking out a third mortgage and putting it on Rota. And I lost it all. Sweet Icarus. She flew too close to the sun. An interesting case of... if I, I, now I've watched this episode a couple of days ago, so forgive me if I get any details wrong, but I don't feel like she took, and nor should she have maybe with the kids quick fire, the quick kids judging the quick fire.

1:01:16I felt like she was like, eh, I'm just going to make like a lamb, like shepherd's pie and not really, I've seen this happen before where somebody is like, this is a stupid quick fire. Yes. And then goes into the final round and is like, I'm still, I'm still him and loses. I do not remember a two-time elimination winner going out of the fucking show within two weeks after that.

1:01:42Andy Greenwald:It's a shocking fall. And I think generally when, because frontrunners have fallen with distressing regularity. And the best example of that being Kristen came back from Last Chance Kitchen to win her season. And no one's questioning her bona fides. I think, though, what was remarkable about Rhoda was that usually frontrunners fall for, you know, like a head-scratching cookery error or a failure with ambition and vision and not being able to execute. I rarely see someone just absolutely fuck up both. Yeah. Like that was, and you could tell, again, I think they're doing some good storytelling stuff for the edits.

1:02:27Andy Greenwald:that like Tom was like, this is ridiculous that she didn't know how to cook a fish or told us it was roasted or whatever, separate and apart from the squid ink stuff. How did you feel about the, what's her name, is injured and so they're like, we're going to give you a chance to leave. I'm glad you asked me this because I have an opinion which is, I don't think she's gaining any kind of unfair advantage by skipping the quick fires. But something similar not entirely similar, but something kind of like this happened on Survivor over the last couple of weeks, which is essentially two guys who were in something of an alliance together and thus targets of another group of people.

1:03:09One of them had a foot injury. And there was some speculation like I wonder if this guy's going to have to take himself out of the game soon. So maybe we should get this other dude and then let Medicine take this guy out and we get two for the price of one, basically. Jen has kind of just been in the middle for me

1:03:27Andy Greenwald:I can't really make a huge Also she made a dip for an elimination challenge I mean it looked like her focaccia was really nice you know and everything but I would say that if she now she's on basically like if you miss another quick fire you're out You can't sit out, it's not optional Right I don't, I would love to know what the pre-existing rule is like whether that's the first time this has happened that someone is like I'm taking a medical on quick fires but we'll still cook eliminations and it kind of speaks to the like flaw of decoupling the two halves of the show. It's beautifully expressed.

1:04:00Andy Greenwald:I would say that the issue, the conversation about load management is unavoidable at this point and I'm not a fan. I think... Not a fan of load management or her getting to continue to cook if she can't do the show? As a fan of the Philadelphia 76ers, I definitely have an opinion about players choosing when to play during the course of the season. Well, it turns out Dr. Darryl was right and he needed his fucking appendix out and like that's why it was weird that he was sick for two weeks. Okay. Yeah, I agree. I'm just saying Sixers-wise. Because that's the only time that Pete this season has taken himself out or been weird about when he's playing.

1:04:35Andy Greenwald:I think, again, back, this is just off the dome, but I believe that there have been people who have injured themselves in quick fires and then had to be attended to and not completed it, but I've never seen anyone tap out twice and then show up, steroided up for the... By the way, where's the drug test? frankly or can't they all get steroids because I would really cook a lot better if I just had a little but if I was Rhoda I might feel a way for sure I mean I know everybody is like we're all in this together and Justin and her seem like a great couple and I would say that my opinion of the chefs as people has like slowly gone up and my opinion of them as chefs has dipped a little bit from where it was in the beginning of the season I have two other takes for you one the Wildwater Rafting Park looks sick as hell and I think you should go when you're in Denver this weekend.

1:05:25Do you, it's in North Carolina.

1:05:28Andy Greenwald:Why did I think, oh, that's right, sorry. Can we delete that? No, we can't, we can't. I love that. Come on. No, and I gotta tell you. Why did I think it was in Denver? I just think that all those things are piss tunnels and like to me, that is just like a giant floating public restroom. Hmm. Now, I love a slide. Do you know what I mean? Because you're just getting the slow trickle behind you? What do you mean? That's okay? You're either splashing out or you're not, buddy. I think it's more of like a quick engage, but when it's like the lazy river, it's the lazy river of piss. Guys are slamming White Claws on edibles.

1:06:11They're just letting it happen.

1:06:12Andy Greenwald:Again, I feel... Kids everywhere. This is not... Maybe it's just branding. This wasn't like Dorney Park's Wild Water Kingdom. This is presented as like the national key. An extension of, but I think that's, I think that that is a man-made monument to wildlife, but it's still like, I bet that water smells bad. Wow. This is the strongest take you've had this entire episode. You laid in wait while I hung myself on shows you didn't even deign to watch. And yet the entire water park industry just got bodied. I think about water parks a lot. Because one of the single greatest moments of my life was at Wildwood.

1:06:53They have a ride that I don't think is there.

1:06:56Andy Greenwald:Wildwater Kingdom in Pennsylvania? No, Wildwood in New Jersey. A lot of wilds in our childhood. There was basically you would walk up a ladder, I think, or steps, but it felt like a ladder, forever. You would ride down a relatively wide chute that then cut off in midair and you were ejected out over a very deep pool. and that moment of coming out of the fucking shoot it was incredible that's the best feeling I've ever had in my life bar like three or four other things but then everything else about water parks I think are pretty disgusting. First of all I'm sorry to inform you that the woke nanny state shut that park down quite some time ago.

1:07:40Andy Greenwald:That level of fun slash risk is no longer allowed due to municipal... I mean, we had way more injuries back then, but we had better times. Right. Well, we weren't load managing. You know what I mean? You can go to the park every day. But you don't really see kids with arm casts anymore because people watch them and they're like, hey, don't climb that tree. You don't think that advances in medicine, perhaps, are contributing here? Have you guys seen a kid with a cast recently? No. Their silence is deafening. This is all child-free, this entire room. I don't see a lot of children this is a good segue actually to my other take about this episode i like going up to a kid who's like have you ever broken your arm no would you like to you know who you sound like right now who my number one enemy on the show seeker oh and he was just like i like practicing having babies yeah and he's just like ha ha ha fuck children in front of three children let me just say something and you're not like this you're you're a fun uncle you're a lovely person.

1:08:44Andy Greenwald:That attitude sucks. That's stupid and you look lame. Like, it's okay if you don't want children, but it's not cool to be like, look at these little people. I wanted children, but I was rendered infertile by Torrey and Farley. It all comes first. That time you Heismaned into the warm New Jersey air. That brief second. That brief second. When the rivers... Forgive me, my unborn son! I must go for glory! As the rivulets of other people's urine wicked off of your airborne body. You're like, it's never getting better than this unless I can tell Chris Jr. Why don't I drink water while he's doing this?

1:09:35Yeah, dog! Wanted to feel alive again. Who's to say? Who's to say I didn't make the right choice, you know?

1:09:41Andy Greenwald:I think the listeners of this podcast feel like you made the right choice. But Seeger, you gotta, like, you're mic'd up, brother. You know, like, when you're back at the loft in North Carolina, you can be like, ugh, kids, not my fave. But don't, like, shit talk three lovely children. Very camera ready. They are, that is a very, very challenging... Ainsley, Wolfie, and... Are these their names? Kate something? Mary Kate? Can I be real with you for a second? None of them have ever broken a bone. Those kids are helicoptered. I think maybe you're onto something. I just mean like that is historically infamously the hardest type of panel for these people to cook for because they always overthink it and Rhoda being like I will tell these children that you know the equivalent of being like Bambi is in this pot as opposed to just being like it's meat.

1:10:37Andy Greenwald:Enjoy. Meat and potatoes. Whereas the person who won made ice cream like that's that was his brother made pepperoni pizza that was crazy or sausage pizza that was smart let's wrap it up here because we do have another podcast to record right now yeah and also I know it's getting clipped now so we can just wrap it up thanks to Kai Kai and Sarah and we will be back on Sunday night to discuss the season 3 premiere of Euphoria

1:11:10Thank you.