What We Watched Over the Holidays: The End of ‘Stranger Things,’ ‘Marty Supreme,’ ‘Heated Rivalry,’ and ‘Landman’

21:23What, are they together? Yeah, very much so. That's sweet. They're really, they are bonded together. Okay. There's a huge, like, destructive moment, event, where, you know, they blow up the Upside Down. Brett Gelman does that.

21:38Andy Greenwald:Damn. Brett Gelman blows up the Upside Down? Do you feel like, what if the Duffer brothers had pitched that 10 years ago to Cindy Holland and Ted Sarandos? Close your eyes. I'm going to paint you a picture. And, you know, so there's this huge destructive thing. There's a ton of damage done. Can I really spoil it? Elle closes the gate to all of this stuff and sacrifices herself. My child already told me this. She's not watched this, but she already told me this. Another big explosion happens, you know. Cut to 18 months later. I love an 18 months later cut. Hawkins, the tax base has exploded. It's not just that the infrastructure got destroyed.

22:20it was like the population came back and they were just like it's teeming it's like hawkins is a there's a gold rush happening in hawkins and everybody has come back and there's so much

22:31Andy Greenwald:construction and building going on so i'm giving the wrong cities this is actually san francisco once daniel lurry became mayor exactly and he's like there's a new gap story but it's just the funniest thing it's like there's no coverage whatsoever of multiple interdimensional explosions happening in indiana but no but so are they like spending their way through it is it like it's yeah Is it abundance? It kind of seems like that. It seems like there's no permitting. There's no zoning. They're just like putting everything back where it belongs. Okay. And I thought that was a very funny like note to end on.

23:01Although it is kind of nice because like these six people or 10 people are like kind of like everybody's just moved on.

23:07Andy Greenwald:I'm also interested in the 18 months as like kind of a default like that's the appropriate length of the ellipsis. It's front of mind because we were rewatching Sleepless in Seattle this weekend. It's on the Criterion's Fresh Start collection. Otherwise, clearly, why would I watch one of the most beloved movies of all time? And for those who haven't rewatched it recently, it opens with Tom Hanks in just paralyzing grief with good reason. His wife, Carrie Lowell, has just suddenly passed away. That's not a spoiler. That's the movie. and then it's like and then they're like what will you do to rebuild your life it's possible what would you and he's like I think I'm going to uproot myself and my child from the only home he's ever known and live on a boat in Seattle because I'm super into mother love bone and think this town is really about to pop off but the yada yada for like when it's okay for him to start dating again is 18 months right 18 months is I think that that's like a solid time it's two pregnancy cycles you know that is a wild that is the first thing you thought of you could just bang out some irish twins and then you're ready to start over a rookie contract you know okay kai what do you how do you feel about this just in terms of someone like you're living your life tom hanks mourning his wife or hawkins moving on from 18 months is a generally reliable benchmark for moving on from something something good or bad like rebuilding a midwestern town expect this to be the first time we threw to you in 2026 was going to be asking this.

24:42Andy Greenwald:Yeah, I feel like after 18 months, it's kind of like, all right, wrap it up. What's it supposed to be like a month for every year? For what? For like a breakup? Is that, wait, they have that? For like time? I think it was supposed to be like. Because for jet lag, it's a day for every hour. Or maybe it's a death. I can't remember. It's something, it's something, it's like a month for every year. You basically like, you're like, that's the way you're supposed to like mourn or whatever. Okay, well that's right on target then because in Sleepless in Seattle, definitely the thing that we're leading this pod with for our first pod back he says he's talking to and beautiful Rob Reiner performance in that movie he says how when's the last time you dated yeah and he says Jimmy Carter was president and the movie is set in 1991 right so that would be 20 years it's about 20 months no no like 14 years 14 he's ready yeah in fact he's a little behind yes he's a little bit lagging let's go now to a film that we both saw I thought at the movies I can tell you're chomping at the bit Marty Supreme yeah How many times did you go to the movies last year?

25:41Or in the last 12 months? How about the last 18 months?

25:45Andy Greenwald:I was a different guy. How many times? Yeah. Embarrassingly few. Okay. I would say under a dozen. I think it's opened you up. Because now I feel like when you go and you like something, you really love it. I will say this, just to start. Like our friends at the Big Picture Podcast, I am a great believer in the in-theater, in-person cinematic experience. I was... So am I. First of all, let's... Oh, are you? Yeah. Sorry, I just... I only listen to that. There's not only three people who love in-theater experiences. I only listen to the big picture when it's pure. Yeah. When it's just the two of them.

26:22Andy Greenwald:I don't like any interlopers on that show. Just like that dynamic. It's like if there's guest hosts on PTI, you know what I mean? Yeah. First of all, a little glimpse behind the curtain. We were ships in the night. we passed each other you were coming out of the movie and I was coming into the movie I had gotten back from a very early flight and I wanted to see it but I could not wait till 8pm here's the thing I had not had a good night of sleep and I was here's what I didn't communicate to you in that moment although I tried to with my searching look that I gave you as you passed the giant fucking poster cut out for Chris Pratt's Mercy a real movie that has the ad wait I had it open just to like look at it for a minute I know what this movie's about it's Rebecca Ferguson is an AI.

27:06Andy Greenwald:The tagline for this film, which is a real film, the future of criminal justice is artificial intelligence. Way to read the room. If there's two things that are equally beloved in America in 2025, it's the criminal justice system and artificial intelligence. And you give me Chris Pratt not smiling? Fucking, that's my 13th time in the theater. Can't wait. Anyway, as we were passing, I was really, really concerned. that I would be sleeping through this film. No judgment on the film. I was just not feeling... You would have been easily the first person to fall asleep in a Safdie Brothers movie. I had that.

27:45Andy Greenwald:I was hoping for that. I was like, that might be my saving grace here. That was not the case. I was so exhilarated and transported by seeing this movie in the theater. I loved it. I loved the movie. I loved the experience of seeing it in the theater. I think it's a great film. It's a great movie. it's a great movie I you know I think that when you step into the theater like the thing the thing you can hope for is to feel fully immersed in something and I think we've probably started to confuse world building with like like more genre like fantasy sci-fi kind of things like are you convincingly building a fictional universe for me to explore yes but to me like world building is what Jack Fisk does in this movie and he's the production designer and he's been he's probably one of like the handful of greatest production designers in the history of Hollywood filmmaking and worked with Terrence Malick in the 70s on Badlands and Days of Heaven and David Lynch yeah David Lynch did Mulholland Drive and then PTA he did The World Be Blood yeah and when you watch Marty Supreme like the thing that he's 80 years old this man is the sort of tactile nature of the New York that they create and feeling like as Marty is going down fire escapes or running through the backs of stores that there is an alley and then another store.

29:09And the illusion, probably, because film is just magic-making anyway, is that you are actually in this interconnected warren of the Lower East Side in the 1950s. And that is like, it's so captivating. And then when you add the seemingly incongruous but wonderful score on top of it from Daniel Patten, it just takes you away beyond ping pong and youth and young manhood and finding a sense of purpose beyond yourself which the movie is also about.

29:41Andy Greenwald:I mean every time I'm not I'm not even being self-deprecating I often don't feel qualified to talk about movies because I see so few of them these days but like every time I see a great movie my first thought is always oh my god it's so hard to make a good movie let alone a great movie and every frame counts and every second counts and you're talking to the specificity of the decisions made in it and you know reading about the film after seeing it talking about how they like wet down the trash in the streets to like increase every potential moment of realism and so the actors would be feeling it too you read about like Tyler and Timothy filming like after their insane night scene and that they were filming that four in the morning and ad-libbing how tired they were because they were you read about Chalamet secretly training to become a ping pong champion for six years, which could be super annoying, honestly, but isn't.

30:35Andy Greenwald:Are you fine? Where are you with him? I sent you a gif of Shaquille O 'Neal saying, I owe you an apology. I wasn't familiar with your game. And I have taken all caveats away from my embrace. Did you ever see the Dylan movie? No. Okay. Do you like the Dune movies, though? I like the Dune movies. I think I've seen I think I feel fairly well versed in his filmography aside from that one you're one of the preeminent experts on his appearance at Homeland that's true famously I met him on the set of Homeland and in no moment was I like this is the next great movie star yeah it's an incredible performance and the entire movie hinges on his face and his commitment and also I was thinking about another recent re-edition to Criterion collection that I rewatched because it was just there again, because I'm clearly desperate for a let's turn the TV on and just watch what's on experience.

31:31Andy Greenwald:This is as close as we get, was I was rewatching Boogie Nights and I was watching it thinking about DiCaprio having worked now with PTA and how great he is in one battle after another and how he now says or has said in past interviews that he does regret passing on Boogie Nights and thinking, I don't think he would be good for it. Like, that's obviously, like, you know, hindsight, but that there's a specificity to what Wahlberg is good at that PTA, as a great director, sees and excavates and, like, shines a bright light on. Interestingly now, I'm more like, Sidney Pollack would have been a good Jack Horner, too.

32:07Andy Greenwald:I'm open to that argument. There could have been a different one there. But anyway, you watch Alameh in this movie and you're like, absolutely no other actor, contemporary actor, could have given us that specific performance. Yeah, I also don't really know on an extra level, like, who else could have sold this movie? Yeah. You know? I mean, the work he has done to get this movie, I think it opened better than the Dylan film did. I think it's appealing, at least from what I've read, to 18 to 34-year-olds who are not always dependable box office supporters. And he's like a new generation of movie star while also having the chops of somebody who could have been famous in 1972, you know?

32:48Andy Greenwald:And I felt really exhilarated by the fact that the movie does, you know, it's highly stylized, obviously. It has that safety je ne sais quoi that keeps people awake in movie theaters. It has the reliance on anachronistic needle drops that I do want to ask you about. But it also has an absolutely genuine, sincere, and I think really interesting curiosity and engagement with reality in terms of like historical reality. And I thought the movie was incredibly compelling and moving as a snapshot of Judaism in the 20th century, but also the way capitalism works and has always worked in America versus the world.

33:29Andy Greenwald:And it's not like heavy handed about any of that, but it's alive to it in a way that I really liked. I also wanted to ask you, so struck, I was so struck by the use of non-traditional actors up to, and this is the most me, I feel like this movie has been well covered at this point by everyone sure here's what i can bring to it i think that i am the only minor media figure to audibly gasp when one of my favorite writers pico ire appears as the supercilious chairman of the world table tennis association that's who that was yes the to me i don't know and beloved travel writer um wrote two of my like most formative books in the 90s video night in Kathmandu, and then Lady and the Monk.

34:16Andy Greenwald:And then since then, he lives in Japan, and he's just thoughtful. He writes a lot about Buddhism and spirituality and travel and our global world. And all of his books are good, including his most recent one. And I was like, I recognize that guy. He's never acted. Did you find out what Safdie's connection to him was? No, because you look down the list of this, and you're like, and George Girvin is running the - Tracy McGrady's on the Globetrotters. Tracy McGrady's on the Globetrotters. Abel Ferreira and Penn Jillette. New York great, in quotes, John Katsimatidis, the chairman of the D 'Agostino Grocery Store Corporation, plays Dion's dad.

34:53That can work or it can catastrophically not work.

34:57Andy Greenwald:And I thought that the casting of non-traditional actors, the Kevin O 'Leary thing, I thought it worked to a degree that was totally invigorating and exciting. But even the dude, what's his name, Philippe, what's his name, who walked across the towers? Yeah. He's the Belgian ping pong commentator. like are you serious the use of faces and then not just saying like that's who should be in the scene whether it's the kid who plays dion who i guess they found on youtube or levon hawk maya's brother who's in the the hustling scene or tyler who i didn't know was an actor and maybe isn't but is incredible like richard brody in the new yorker wrote that um he thought that this works well for the safeties because the safeties communicate their story they tell their story yes through, less through like traditional performance, more through visuals and reaction and presence, which makes sense.

35:48It was also awesome in Spencer Grenese, who's in Dope Thief, but is in that one bowling alley scene talking to Tyler about like, guard your wad, like don't let anybody see your cash here. And then obviously chases them to the gas station. He's got that same kind of face. Even though he's done some acting, obviously he's like an up-and-coming actor. I just think that he's like Safdie is Abel Ferreira we didn't even mention you know what it is is a total commitment to an idea so it's the same thing with the music when it opens with Forever Young and you know like we won't we don't have to spoil Marty Supreme folks haven't had a chance to see it but it also ends on a very significant needle drop and if you kind of go halfway or if in the middle of the movie you weirdly start changing oh now we're doing 1950s needle drops.

36:40It's like you have to be

36:41Andy Greenwald:fearless. You have to be fearless, but you have to be committed to an idea, and the idea is essentially that Marty Supreme is a memory piece of this guy remembering in the 80s what life was like in the 50s. That's what Josh talked about with Sean. Josh himself remembering the feeling of the past through the emotional... No, the character. Josh is like, this idea is kind of, you know, it almost feels... He's making the 1950s feel like the 1980s because it would be older Marty Supreme remembering the 1950s. So it basically gives a rationale to the postmodern new wave vibe of the music in the film.

37:19To commit to something that fully and then to not even be like, this is why I did it in the film itself is so brave and fearless. And it's the same thing with like, Kevin O 'Leary could have fucked that movie up. Yes. So many people could have just - It's a major part. I mean, there is something happens in this thing on, the Bradley Cooper movie with Warnett that is like the wrong version of this and it completely takes you out of the movie if you're even in it in the first place. The fact that they're able to pull off all of these faces you're essentially the entire movie is like the bar scene in Goodfellas where they're just like and then there was this guy and then this guy and it's like that's the whole movie is faces like that and people like that it's so invigorating to see because you realize that, especially when we're watching TV, seeing a lot of the same faces, seeing a lot of the same people.

38:11Andy Greenwald:And a lot of these interpretations of an idea that a character is on the page. And when it comes to extra work or people filling out a scene or people in the background or people who are briefly on camera, it's like, there just doesn't seem like there's a ton of thought given to it, probably because they have to move so quickly. But yeah. Are you talking about the geologist on Landman? Not yet. But I agree with that. I will, maybe this is a sign of my trepidation and lack of fearlessness, the last needle drop was the only time that I was like, only because that song is so overly dropped. Yes. The New Order one, shout out to the upcoming season of Industry, works for me.

38:50Andy Greenwald:And like the Peter Gabriel one worked for me. The last one is when you... You can say it. I mean, we can... Cheers for fears. When you drop a song that is not just known in its moment as a famous huge song, but has been known by every subsequent generation, almost like by clockwork in the decade from a needle drop. Yeah. I think that it removes you from the immediacy of the moment, which Chalamet is delivering in terms of his performance. That was the one time that I was a little out of it. But there was a feeling that I had after the opening sequence where he's in London and everything that happens in London and Gwyneth Paltrow and their connection.

39:30Andy Greenwald:I was like, I don't remember the last time I had this feeling in the movie, theater where I was, it's actually more like a sports thing. And maybe it's fitting that it's a sports movie where I was like, please don't blow this lead. I was so in love with my, and I don't think I was out of it. I was fully invested, but I was so in love with the experience I was having. And I was so worried. Eventually that faded, but like of a wrong note that would blow it. I was like, you're up 21, nothing. Don't let the Cowboys back in it. you're more now aware of how you're feeling about a movie while you're watching a movie or a tv show like are you more like do you think it's because like you maybe you're like you have less time so it's like my relationship to culture is now a little bit more transactional and when you do feel like i'm levitating don't don't don't bring me down now i think so but then there were a couple moments when the bathtub crashed to the ceiling i think then i lost all reservations about it because i was just laughing and euphoric and like this is here we go yeah um i mean i it's of no value based on my almost complete ignorance of the larger cinematic slate still of 2025 for me to say this is my favorite movie of the year but i i i would rate it higher than one battle after another in my own personal top two list, which might expand over the next few weeks as we build up to the Oscars.

40:53Do you think you're going to do a deep dive into 2025 movies? Like when you're watching and you're like, I'm just like watching Boney Nights or whatever?

41:00Andy Greenwald:I'm going to watch Sinners in Eddington and I still want to take a return to Zombieland with you. I mean, I saw the trailer for Bone Temple. Yeah, it's coming soon. You excited about it? Very. Yeah. it's is Ray Fiennes he's playing the the rabbi of the bone temple not exactly but he is in 28 years later as this character he is and then they're like let's spend more time in the temple yes okay and then there's another one I there will be hopefully a third one I don't want to spoil anything about 28 years later I don't want you to I think you should go into it as blind as possible okay yeah how will I feel about the needle drops Young Fathers did the soundtrack It's an incredible score.

41:44I wanted to briefly tell you about one other thing that I watch that I know you probably are only in and out on. We talked about this show briefly for the first episode. It's Heated Rivalry, which is still the number one show on the Max streaming app.

41:55Andy Greenwald:God, Casey stays winning. And we didn't do a best episode of 2025 episode of this podcast, which we have done the last couple of weeks. Yes, we were unable to due to scheduling. We did Shogun one year. We did The Bear one year. And I think we were a little bit like, you know, I feel like we left it all on the field with Adolescence, but we were talking about, like, maybe we should try and do the third episode of Adolescence or maybe the second to last episode of Task. Like, there was a couple of candidates. Yeah, and I think I would have voted for, ultimately, the third episode of Adolescence, but I think wrangling all the overseas talent would have been challenging.

42:31Although, now they were just in town for Critics' Choice. I think they're going to be in L.A. for a while to get some awards.

42:36Andy Greenwald:Do you think they want to talk to me about jet lag? Just, like, how best to manage that flight and what to order, don't get the soup. But then otherwise, this is just inside baseball. But we were also like, what more do we have to say about Andor or The Pit since we've already done interviews with creative people? A lot of stuff, yeah. Anyway. It's probably recency bias, but I would have made an argument for the fifth episode of Heater Rivalry. God, that's great. Good for you. I've watched the rest of this over the course of sort of the Christmas break. It is an amazing achievement of a show. just the level of skill from Jacob Tierney who created it based on these novels by Rachel Reed and then wrote and directed the episodes yeah he's a fucking big time talent man like I'm so blown away and I asked you to watch like a brief moment at the end of the fifth episode where it kind of is the culmination of one side subplot of the show this established hockey stars public coming out Mm-hmm.

43:39Quite public. How that affects the two main actors, the main characters, Ilya and... Who at this point in their journey are closeted. And Connor, yeah. And spoilers for this episode, if you haven't seen it, I would just highly recommend you watch Cheater Rivalry. But the end of this episode, which is actually excellent, it also features, like, Ilya has to go back to Russia for a funeral, and Connor's in the hospital after an injury and like there's this like it's just a very very very well done episode of

44:14Andy Greenwald:television this is five of out of eight six six oh so this is the this is the penultimate yes okay and then the last five minutes of this is uh this guy coming out after after winning what would be the stanley cup and these two younger hockey hockey players watching it at their separate homes while I'll Believe in Anything by Wolf Parade plays. I just got chills. And the reason why I think I've checked this out so many times is because of the filmmaking in it. You know, they're shooting it on anamorphic lenses. The way that they are communicating the emotional and psychological reality of the characters with camera movement and music and cutting, and it is so high level for a show that could in another person's hands could have just been very straightforward soap opera hot sex TV show.

45:12Yeah. And he makes it like cinematic. It is so good. I would just if you if you have heard about this show and you haven't watched it please check it out and see if you if you can get to episode five. I mean I think if you're watching it you'll just you'll just watch it. it's just really compelling anyway.

45:29Andy Greenwald:I was glad you told me to watch it for two reasons. The first reason is it's good to be validated in my opinion that those Wolf Parade records are incredibly important to the culture because that hits. That was the pure uncut. I would have Jacob Tierney on just to talk about Wolf Parade. I would love to talk about Wolf Parade at length. I was more of a Shine a Light guy than a I'll Believe in Anything guy but for sure. that's a sign of great artistry you just sort of can unearth these nuggets um of ore yeah i i think that what i appreciated the most is the way that is historically but like this century of television and the role the penultimate episode often plays especially with the type of shows that we talk about and lionize there has often been a a death yeah the second to last episode exactly and the death is both shocking in terms of your audience investment in the character who dies and um also the timing of it like you we were i think no longer but we were conditioned to expect fireworks in finales and so that was the great innovation of george pelicanos and the rest of the wire staff um but you do it in that episode so that you can actually you can remind the audience that the that good shows aren't about the rock getting thrown in the pond it's about the ripples sure and how the ripples affect on people.

46:53Andy Greenwald:And so to watch an episode cold of characters I did not... Yeah, you don't know who Scott is. I didn't know what was going on on the main stage thing. But I figured it out pretty quickly. Actually, before you keep going, I just realized that I transposed the actor who plays Ilya's first name, Connor, it's Connor Story, and the character who I was referring to is Shane Hollander. So Connor Story plays Ilya and then Hudson Williams plays Shane. So I just fucked that up. You don't have to apologize to me. I don't watch the show. this is I would have let you get away with anything I'm just trying to do the work I'm sorry yeah absolutely anyway just to say that the power of the scene was coming into a cold and realizing the significance of the in this parlance of prestige TV the it's the opposite of a murder but how it affects these characters and where they are in their lives and the significance of it and again like there are these little subtle touches that I also really appreciated that with Connor or Shane Who's the dark-haired...

47:53That's Shane Hollander is the character. He's played by Hudson Williams. When Shane Hollander,

47:57Andy Greenwald:watching this on television... With his parents, yeah. He's watching Major League Hockey television, I believe. I don't have that strong service. The New York Admirals have won the Stampley Cup or whatever it is. Yeah, Scott Hunter has won the Cup. It's falling on his parents who are like, oh, we're watching something significant. Something is happening and it's hitting him completely different. Yeah, it's beautifully framed. Yeah. Really, really excellent TV. So check it out if you haven't already. I must have Major League hockey television. I fucking just found out I have Crunchyroll still. Of course you do.

48:34Andy Greenwald:I have kids. But we don't watch it. You guys moved on from anime? Yeah, anime is not as popular in the house now that they've discovered YouTube. Do you want to talk about... Yes. Yeah, you want to talk about Landman? Here's the thing. do I want to talk about it? Like, when you... Like, what if you had done... What if you were that dude, Morgan Spurlock, rest in peace, and you, like, supersized me for a year, and then you came in to make the movie about it... That is sort of what's happening. And someone was like, so what do you want to talk about today? Landman's hit a little bit of a slump. Let's just...

49:08Okay. Let's call it what it is. Sure. Let's be honest with each other. And I note this with interest on today, January 5th, because it was just announced that the next season of Mayor of Kingstown will be the last season

49:18Andy Greenwald:of that show. So do you think this is the first domino to fall in the Sheridanverse? I thought it was interesting. I'm sure I'm wrong. Taylor Sheridan is no longer the showrunner of Mayor of Kingstown. You know, I think that the fourth season was quite liked, critically acclaimed even. Put that on the poster. Of Edie Falco is sort of the co-star of the show in this season. I kind of gave up Mayor of Kingstown like late season two. I don't even know if I watched any of season three.

49:50and Taylor Sheridan's moving his productions, his TV production work to Peacock Universal, NBC Universal, and I do wonder whether or not it is a signal that the third season of Lioness will be the last season or that some of his work is going to start winding down. I say that in relationship to Landman because the middle of this second season has felt a lot like late-period Yellowstone to me, where you're like, we have a lot of random kind of action. Yep. We're starting subplots and then sort of like drifting away from them.

50:27Andy Greenwald:We're not, we can't make up our mind about how characters behave and how they feel about each other. It has like an almost compressed feeling. Remember that critique? I used to like get really upset when Succession would have like an emotional breakthrough with two characters and then the next episode it would just completely reset back to the original model for their relationship. that happens all the time on this show I mean every Andy Garcia Billy Bob Thornton scene is the same scene yeah and almost almost every scene between Billy Bob Thornton and Sam Elliott which are really well done in terms of like those guys are really good actors but they and I think we'll probably get somewhere with this stuff but it just really feels like he's writing six different shows that then get cut together into episodes Yeah, I mean, the structure of the show is built out of papier-mâché, and it's a bummer.

51:19Andy Greenwald:And I think before we get into the specifics of it and things that I really do want to talk about in a public forum. Like Cialis? Like, yes. And who's really to blame here in a lot of these, like, marital tiffs? The point you make is a really interesting one, because Taylor Sheridan remains, and one of the reasons why I also like covering him, as long as I don't have to watch all the shows, is because he is such a unique figure in the television landscape because he produces content at a volume of all the great, high-quantity television producers. Your... Bochko's. Bochko, your Dick Wolf, your Shonda Rhimes.

51:59Andy Greenwald:But the David Kelly one, I would X out only because I think he's more in common with him. The other few, they make, not only are they good investments for whoever, you know, nurtured them and had them on their rookie contracts, so to speak. They are good for the Pujols contract as well because those shows can run themselves at a certain point. Grey's Anatomy is still thriving. How many years ago to Chanda DeCamp to Netflix? Which doesn't mean, I mean, she's still executive producer of that show. But these shows can continue because they are a template that works, that the creator established. The thing that's so unique about Taylor Sheridan is that Landman or any of the shows that he makes should be able to run regardless of who's at the helm.

52:41Andy Greenwald:if you gave me the logline for Landman or you, God forbid, read the Texas Monthly article that somehow inspired it or came across his desk briefly. Yeah, the Christian Wallace article. Or the podcast. You could be like, well, obviously this is a television show. If the show had just had the patience, the very non-Taylor shared any patience, to just be about Cooper's journey over multiple seasons from worm on Boss's team to someone who wildcats his way into Yeah, exactly. That's a fucking show. Right. But the shows only convey what Taylor Sheridan's attention span holds for the microsecond that he spends working on each script.

53:23Andy Greenwald:So they are not actually repeatable. And I want to be clear when I say that, when he gets interested in something, it can often... Well, that's why his shows start so well. But it also can be so shocking and weird and surprising that suddenly it can come alive. like it has intermittently over the previous episodes of the season. You know, even I was like, oh, okay, well, there's something there. That's interesting. And then he loses interest and then he reboots it or whatever. So I think that's interesting to note that, like, Landman should be a franchise that could run for many, many years, which makes it a very valuable investment for Paramount, despite its high price tag.

54:03Andy Greenwald:Once he walks, I don't see what the show is. Well, you can almost make an argument that, like, given all the footage that we have, you could cut together a more traditional but actually, like, probably pretty entertaining version of this show. Because part of the thing that's so disorienting is the juxtaposition of, like, Billy Bob Thornton's raging erection in a morning, you know, with his wife in a hotel room where he terrifies a hotel maid. Don't save it. I'm sorry, Kaia. we're bringing you in on this. For flying. I want to tell Kaya about this scene. You said hotel maid where... This is where you bring me in?

54:46Andy Greenwald:Yes. I do think that, you know, this is in the spirit of something I issued a few weeks ago, which was the watch landman with a woman challenge. So the opening of this episode, Kaya, begins with Billy Bob Thornton is sleeping in a hotel room. he and his wife have taken a room for a romantic getaway. Petite dejeuner. Yeah. He wakes up quite upset and startled because there is another person in their room. This is a room service server who is decloching or whatever multiple plates of breakfast food, including like omelets with truffles and all sorts of things. He reasonably cries out in alarm that someone is in the room with him.

55:32Andy Greenwald:She then cries out in secondary, or perhaps primary, in this case, alarm, because what we subsequently learn is that he has taken multiple doses of Cialis and is... At attention. At attention. To be clear, the camera shows us this. Which part do you want my thoughts on specifically? The maid then screams, don't rape me. You started this, so you have to get yourself out of it. and then uh angela the wife who has let the woman into the room while her husband sleeps starts screaming at her husband for waking up and not covering himself yeah and then he has thus not only ruined their breakfast but their entire marriage marriage yeah who you got who's to blame here for this whole thing?

56:26Probably Taylor Sheridan.

56:28Andy Greenwald:Right. She answered correctly. I just feel like so many of the bits on the show, not Billy Bob's bits, begin from a place of such deep, deep impossibility. Sure. Like to get to the funny part about that scene, which honestly we never got to, requires an entire suspension of disbelief about how room service works. It's a different kind of show. It's also just like a crazy screwball comedy about a rich oil executive and his wife. Erections? No, but it's just like that's like a it's just like what happens is he just throws all this stuff at the wall. Most people would be like, this works, this works, this works, this doesn't.

57:14Especially not together. And since he has kind of carte blanche, he's like, it all works. It also might be why people like the show is that they never know what's going to happen from scene to scene. That is true. I think what has sort of emerged over this season specifically is the first season had the tension of Jon Hamm versus Billy Bob Thornton, but also working together. Plus the cartel stuff, plus a lot of work on what the oil industry, how that works in the Permian Basin and how drilling and how it gets staffed and the dangers that these guys face. I thought that was going to continue with some of the stuff that they've introduced this season with the accident that happens with the car accident that happens at the drilling site with the natural, the toxic chemical leak that they have

58:04Andy Greenwald:None of these things have led to anything. No. I mean broadly, it seems like many people working for this oil company are thinking about their own mortality and thinking about what they should be doing with their lives. You add in the Sam Elliott thing of being at the end of his life and being like, I don't think any of what I did was worth it there are themes that come out of it that kind of make sense. Yeah, and there's a moment like Boss's 20-year barbecue where what's-his-name shows up with the watch. With the Rolex, yeah. Also, what's that guy's name? It's like anytime that character leaves, Dale leaves the compound, I'm like, oh, I enjoy his character and his performance.

58:41Andy Greenwald:Yes. These are real people working jobs and dealing with things, and then it just throws it all away again. Right. And so, yeah, I just think that they have, I think one of the things that's really jumped out at me is like, Andy Garcia really is only ever in his office. Yeah. And he's the second or third person. He went to the track. I just, what's going on there though? Like we've now done like five hours of him being like, I'll back your oil company. And Billy Bob's like, you shouldn't do this. You're evil, but also I need you. But also we see eye to eye. Right. I only want to talk about one scene specifically.

59:16Andy Greenwald:And again, I think this is worth it for anyone who doesn't watch the show, because there are moments when, such as the breakfast scene, where I'm like, this is just, this is actually awful. Everything about this is bad. And this is bad for the world and bad for me personally that I'm watching this. And then there are moments, not to, you know, I'll couch it. I'll be nice. Then there are moments on the show that make me feel like, and this is a small digression here, but are you familiar with, this might be my all-time favorite. I don't know if it's TikTok originally, but it's an Instagram thing, which is a clip of a guy saying like, when I give my dog a CBD gummy so he's not scared of fireworks.

59:54Andy Greenwald:Yeah. And then it plays Enigma and the dog flies up out of the bed. Yes. I laugh every time. There is a moment in this last episode that made me feel like the dog on gummies being lifted out of my dog bed and floating through the cosmos. And that was. And that was the moment when in response to his elderly father being discovered lying in a hot tub. Yeah, right. otherwise fine, that his response to help his aging and clearly depressed father is to pull off of the road at a strip club that he's never entered before. But his wife has. Yes. And walk over to the stripper counting her money. The only one in the...

1:00:36Andy Greenwald:I'm so sorry. License plates has hot lips.

1:00:44Andy Greenwald:And hold, hire her, to be his father's physical therapist. She quite rightly says, I am in no way qualified to do this. And he's just like, show her some of your stretches. Show him some of your stretches. Here's a wad of money. And also if you want to give him a handjob, that's fine. Yeah. And she's like, I understand the parameters of the assignment and I accept. Even saying it out loud, I'm starting to worry that I've hallucinated this. But this does happen. and over the course of the episode then she shows up at the house she has completely inorganic banter with the other men in the house like poor calm fury who i just hope i just hope that like he would get out his retirement straight like his role on this show is so insane because every time you're like well i guess he's going to be more important because they have a giant He's just standing in the house.

1:01:41Andy Greenwald:Tommy, I'm going to zoom into this one. And they cut to him going, I think it's a bad idea, Tommy. And then he closes the laptop. Yeah. So Godspeed. So he has a little interaction where he once again has to see a blonde woman in tight pants and go, oh, I don't know if I approve of this one. She then says to Sam Elliott, I'm going to do aqua therapy with you, man I've just met. I Googled it and watched a YouTube video. Let's both get in our underwear. To be fair, aqua size is pretty straightforward. You just kind of like move around in the water. I will cradle you in the pool for, and I'm going to quote the show here, hours.

1:02:23That doesn't even seem... They're pruning. That's what I'm saying.

1:02:27Andy Greenwald:I mean, maybe when you... He's a handsome, handsome man, but he has some wrinkles, so maybe you can't tell. There's also a really great Sam Elliott movie called The Lifeguard. Yes, when he's a younger man. Yeah. Do you think it's a full circle moment for him? Would you say that this was a better use of cradling a person in the water than task? Oh. Well. Different. Different setup. I guess it's different. I guess it's different. One was sexually charged in inappropriate ways, and one wasn't, because it would have also been inappropriate. So, no, I don't know if I have an answer to that. Last thing that I just want to get your read on.

1:03:07Andy Greenwald:There's a scene, you know, Demi Moore's role this season has been expanded. Primarily, what she's been given opportunities to do is lose it solo. Like, cry, scream, hit things, pour out bottles of Pappy Van Winkle, etc. And then take absolutely indefensible business swings, you know? But, you know, she's in a vulnerable spot. you know the guy who points out that she has salad dressing on her mouth which i was like this is the scene yeah so there's a scene where demi moore is like about to go to a meeting but she is eating a salad at a grill somewhere you know she's at the bar yeah she's solo dining which you and i respect sure um for what's worth good job by the you know onset makeup person because i did freeze frame it and i was like did they just they forgot to do a touch up on her face because something is on her face maybe that would be awesome if like in the background of the scene and it was just you taking a picture of your food.

1:04:07Yeah.

1:04:08Andy Greenwald:I don't even post it, but just want to know. Lovely Cobb salad at Kettleman Ranch. At Kettleman Ranch, enjoying my trip to Fort Worth. I also would say in the spirit of this podcast, I'm saying that I don't think Cammie is covering herself in glory as the leader of Emtex thus far. That said, I would like some of her energy in the offensive play calling of the Philadelphia Eagles. I think we do need a little bit of like, a little less defensive turtling. You know what I mean? Like, let's go for it. If we think oil's there, let's at least, as the clock's winding down, go for it. Okay, so she's sitting there.

1:04:42Andy Greenwald:She's eating her salad. A man who has the same haircut as the geologist in that it's like rat tail with a lot of extra dressing on top, but is 20 years older and heavier. Than the geologist. Than the geologist. sits next to her, flirts a little bit, makes small talk, and then presumes to clean... It is an aggressive move. He could just be like, give a little bit of salad dressing. He went for it. Yeah. And she like rightly recoils, acts as if he had just woken up in his own hotel room with morning wood. Like it's the most worst thing you could ever do. That's not the part I want to talk to you about.

1:05:28Andy Greenwald:What I want to really pick your brain on is then later, after Cammy's just like, let's spend$400 million on a wish. Yeah. Because the geologist is like, I got this. That guy, by the way, when that guy appeared on the show. He's fucking Luke in the trench run. He's just like, I don't need the guidance system. I can just find the gas. Two weeks ago, when that guy showed up on the plane drinking watermelon juice and tequila, he was not listed in the credits as geologist. Oh, right. They've decided this in the last episode and a half. Also, I shared this, my research with you. I did Google oil company geologist.

1:06:05Andy Greenwald:And let me tell you, they look more like Chopped Tim Waltz. Well, they look like Comfior. At best. Yeah. They do not look like... Comfior would be the Timothee Chalamet of geologists. They do not look like if Desmond from Lost was in Imagine Dragons. Yes. Okay, so that's a flight of fancy. But as you said, would you say dress for the job you want? I respected that. In the scene after Cammy's been like, I trust this guy with my life and all of my fortune. Yeah. She's like, Tommy, you don't know what it's been like. At lunch today, I was eating a salad. And I am quoting here, a very handsome man tried to wipe Green Goddess from my mouth.

1:06:46Yeah.

1:06:47Andy Greenwald:What point did anyone on set be like, we gotta recast? No offense to this working Texas actor. But at what point were they like, we may have to recast that part or adjust the dialogue? I'll say this, I don't think that that guy is gonna show up again. I think it was more of a symbol of Cammie now Cammy not waiting 18 months you know Cammy's we're six weeks after Monty's dead this is a great point I'm not saying she should have rushed into it but I'm trying to set a benchmark here this woman was married to John Hamm that is what anyone in the future is competing against I just really hope that the guy who played the dude at the bar I love the watch this is how this show works she's gonna clip this and this guy is gonna be like I finally got a job on a major television show.

1:07:34Andy Greenwald:Here's what I know about 14 years in of podcasting for this show. We can glaze the finest actors in Hollywood forever. Crickets. Crickets. I make one passing comment about how crazy it is that Suits is popular now. And Patrick J. Adams, the star of Suits, records a fucking reel being like, they're mentioning my show. Oh, they've ripped my heart out. I like Suits. and that's how you win that's how you win I don't know how to do this I am still bad at this I think that you've had the full Taylor Sharon experience in just a few months of Landman you've experienced the high highs the confusing middle and the lowest of lows we'll see in the next two episodes if he can pull it back together do you think I just don't even know what the next two episodes you could just tell me the next two episodes were going to be exactly like the last three episodes.

1:08:32There's no story. Yeah.

1:08:33Andy Greenwald:There's no villain. There's no stakes. My hope, if I could just prescribe, I think the next two episodes should be about the fallout in the marriage of the woman at the nursing home after she has been, you know, working this beautiful job, making the best life she can for her and her husband, who I believe works at a high school. He was wearing some sort of athletic garb. And how the first time he's shown interest in her was after the Angela makeover. I'm just worried. I'm curious about the next day. You know? You think that's what Landman should be about? I think it should be entirely like a kitchen sink drama about those two.

1:09:09Andy Greenwald:All right. That's what I think. I think we did a good job today. We surveyed a lot of stuff. We're going to be back on Thursday with the first episode of the second season of The Pit to talk about. I can't believe you missed the opportunity to be like, you now have the full Taylor Sheridan experience just like America woke up to the full Taylor Sheridan experience on Saturday. Turns out Lioness is a documentary. tree. This is all we're saying. Thanks to Kai. Thanks to Kai. We'll be back on Thursday with the pick. Everybody take care. Everybody just watch it when you're eating salads. Be careful.

1:09:38Andy Greenwald:Ordering room service. Be careful. Jets. Be safe. Be safe out there.

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