Sugar, Bread, The Immune System Breakthrough & When to Exercise

32:17I've got a list of all of them. I wonder if it'll be banned in a few years. Do you think glycerol should be banned? I do. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. What an amazing creation, right? It's like the ingredients that make ice cream to keep it a certain consistency so it can be transported across the world. But let's be honest, there's zero benefit to your health. It's dangerous. Anyway, sorry. Heavy, heavy stuff, guys. No, but as I said at the top, to me, this was so symptomatic of the, I think this whole episode's actually symptomatic of the insanity of the world that we live in, where on the one hand, you've got drinks that can hospitalise children for sale in places where children desperately want them.

32:55They go all the time. This is where the children in the UK, look, we get rain and cold in like most of the year. So they want to do indoor activities and all these indoor activities, soft plays, all of them have these drinks. exactly so on the one hand you've got that and as i said it's they shouldn't be allowed to be given to children at two three four years old anyway so the fact that they then are being advised against it kind of summarizes how mad ultra processed food has gone on the one hand and then as we're going to get to a little bit later in the episode on the other hand we're being told that spinach is killing us we're actually going to even hear a viral clip about how water is very bad for us so we're kind of vilifying almonds spinach wholemeal bread like just a whole cohort kind of quite standard ingredients and yet at the same time we're selling slushies and it just summarizes this complete juxtaposition this almost impossible to navigate landscape that we all live in and as we were saying like this is no parents fault for giving it to their children it's no one's fault for buying it it's just this bizarre as i said almost impossible to navigate landscape that we kind of desperately need to decode for people I had one in my school canteen.

34:03Oh, wow. I've just got this flashback to, I don't know. I mean, we definitely had the fridge with the Yorkie bars and stuff in, you know, that you could access on your school break. I'm just wondering if we had those or not. It wouldn't surprise me back then. Anyway, not good. Yeah, let us know if that's been the same for you guys. And very interesting to get your thoughts on all of this as well. But there's been so much information and we're going to talk about it a bit more again next week about kind of children and early years. And there was a report out at the end of last year talking about that first thousand days and how early sugar intake shapes lifelong health, which I think was just worth referencing in conversation to this slushies debate.

34:42This research came out at the University of Southern California, and it showed that cutting sugar intake during the first thousand days of life. So that's from conception till you turn two. Significantly reduces the risk of chronic disease in adulthood. So the scientists were analysing data from around 6 ,000 people, again from the UK Biobank, and they were comparing those who were born during the World War II era, where you obviously had sugar rationing, so that's born before 1953, to those who were born after, where sugar intake nearly doubled. and despite experiencing the same societal changes over 70 years the early sugar exposure made such a significant difference in long-term health outcomes so 35 percent lower risk of type 2 diabetes 20 percent lower risk of high blood pressure 30 percent lower risk of obesity that's for the adults who didn't have that high sugar intake in their first two years so it's absolutely extraordinary again my children had sugar at that point because with my second i found it impossible to get around it at birthday parties and all the rest of it i didn't want to stigmatize it it's all a complicated debate i think every now and again like a birthday party you can't avoid it but i think this study is referring to it being a daily household thing and it's creeping into snacks so you know ultra processed food snacks which we should probably go into next week or something there were multiple headlines on this but also between naught and two that's when a child's brain grows the most.

36:04It's the biggest neurodevelopment phase, this thousand days research. And it's actually a really big global campaign to help lower socioeconomic groups and countries, third world countries, is a big challenge to try and help children between nought and two, because that does impact the population in the future. So we know the importance of diet in this phase. Also going into pregnancy when a child's in the womb, all of that counts and the mother's diet and god my diet was awful Ella in pregnancy yeah mine was terrible first I much better second time interestingly but that was just because the first time I felt so ill and the second time didn't feel ill at all so it was really easy to make those I remember when we were on the tube when you were pregnant I don't know why we were on the tube we're on the central line and you were saying you could only eat bread yeah bread and chips yeah and I was like cheese and bread yeah beige and beige are like whereas with May I didn't feel anything and it was so easy to well and I really wanted to but anyway it shows how complicated it is but I think it was just the slushies thing tells you regardless whether you have children or don't have children I think it's just a very interesting conversation that we're we've got to a point that we're selling things on a day-to-day basis that are so bad for us that they're having to be banned and hospitalizing people but it's confusing because you've got professionals out there saying you know the problem with ultra processed foods is they don't contain enough protein so you know you've got very controversial topics out there at the moment guys had to throw that one in so we move on to headline number three headline number three which is positive news but i think it's also really indicative of the fact that as we always say the science is always changing it's always moving forward people are learning new things about the body and the way it works every day which is so exciting and this is that scientists have discovered a new part of the immune system wow which is amazing isn't it yeah so researchers have uncovered a previously unknown component of the immune system that could serve as a rich source of natural antibiotics potentially transforming the treatment of infectious diseases obviously this is in very very very early stage but the discovery just centers on something called a proteasum a structure which is found in every cell and it's traditionally known for recycling proteins but the scientists have now found that upon detecting bacterial invasion it shifts its role to produce antimicrobial peptides that can effectively kill bacteria and obviously one of the big fears in the world is antibiotic resistance and so this was a massive breakthrough and again but it just shows quite how clever our bodies are i mean a whole new area watch the space guys because when we say that science is evolving as we speak something that came up in last night's chat was that the tech is always going to be ahead of the science and the problem is the science is always catching up or not ready yet but the tech's already there.

38:44So the reason that CGMs are everywhere is because despite there not being enough data, tech's already out there. People are selling, they're making the money. And with the immune system and the research with antibiotics, this is going to take so many years to unpick. But what do we do in the meantime? I find it fascinating. It is absolutely fascinating. This is mad. The laboratory tests demonstrated that these natural antibiotics were as effective as some existing drugs in the market, which is just extraordinary. Yeah. And remember, our gut health is important because our gut microbes train our immune system effectively in those interactions.

39:16So if we eat better, perhaps that's also linked to this new part of the immune system. I want to learn more. I know, me too. It is so important to me that my home feels like a calm and cozy sanctuary from the chaos of the world. I found that beyond decorating, sensory things like warm smells and soft textures make the biggest impact for that. And especially as it cools down outside, I'm looking for the best ways to snuggle up on my couch. I recently moved and one of the very first things I added to my new living room was my bubble cuddle blanket from Cozy Earth. It's a faux fur material that is so incredibly soft and has this cool bubble design that makes it look and feel very plush.

39:57It's a mid-weight construction so I've honestly decided against getting a weighted blanket because it's not too heavy but you still get that feeling of security when you lie under it.

40:10the couch at all times instead of the blanket basket with the rest of our options. I've also been loving my bamboo sheets from Cozy Earth. The temperature regulating capabilities were great for the summer and now that it's getting a little cooler at night, I'm just really appreciating the softness of the sheets and pillowcases. It's like I'm slipping into a cloud every night. Plus, you can try them risk-free with Cozy Earth's 100 night sleep trial. If you don't love them, you just return them hassle-free, but believe me, you're going to be hooked after the first night. So if you're looking to make your home a little more cozy this fall, head to CozyEarth.com and use my code SCOOP for 20 % off.

40:44That's CozyEarth.com code SCOOP. And if you get a post-purchase survey, make sure you let them know you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Because home isn't just where you live, it's how you feel. So let's go home with Cozy Earth. At Sierra, discover top workout gear at incredible prices, which might lead to another discovery. Your headphones haven't been connected this whole time. awkward. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving. Okay, on the topic of learning more, we're getting into what's trending in wellness. And I'm going to say this is going to be our chunkiest take on trends yet.

41:21But before we get into the heart of this section, just a positive pickup. I know you guys are very latched onto, I am as well, our weekly hot girl walks, pop the wellness scoop in, feel good about life, get outside. there is obviously so much info out there about how positive nature is exposure to nature but there was again a new piece of research that came out last week and that found that exposure to nature may actually change the way the brain processes pain reducing the intensity of pain love that right so good another reason to hot girl walk and i said it was fractals it's not it's fractals when you look at nature that makes you feel good yeah i got the word wrong and so this was researchers from the universities of exeter and vienna and they found that people watching videos of natural landscapes led to a measurable reduction in pain perception.

42:07So they were scanning their brains and that revealed that the brains responded much less intensely to pain when they were viewing nature. So it's not just a placebo effect, it is a real biological response to how much nature helps. I mean, what they should have in hospital rooms when anyone's in pain or you're giving birth or whatever it is you're there for, they should just have like screens around the room with the beach or a mountain. Exactly, some trees resting. We should just play David Attenborough everywhere. But yeah, they had 49 participants. It was quite a small study, but still very interesting.

42:36And they were giving them small electric shocks while they were watching. And they had videos of nature, city scenes and office spaces. And as I said, it was those watching natural landscapes that felt less pain versus the urban environment videos. That is my worst nightmare, a study where I have to sit, be shocked in an office space. Can you imagine? Oh my gosh, I know. I wouldn't be the first to sign up to it. But yeah, it showed that it wasn't, the brain wasn't distracted. It was actually processing pain differently when exposed to nature. I know. And talking of nature, let's go into kale and spinach then.

43:06Let's do it. So when we're talking about spinach and kale, I just want to preface the fact that we're not just talking about this one trend. What we want to talk about today is the spread of misinformation and what makes it therefore so confusing for us all to know how to make healthy habits and what we should change, what we should incorporate, what we shouldn't. and these are just a couple of videos that we've pulled out as i think the crux or real summaries of where the issues lie and a lot of the spinach one again relates to oxalates which you guys have probably seen again things people talking about so we're just going to play a clip of it so you get a sense of what we're talking about and this is from an account where it's had about 33 000 likes so loads and that have like millions of views the image is like of a bodybuilding guy at the start just to paint the picture but there's a scientist being interviewed on this podcast okay here we go which by the way kale and spinach are not healthy for you at all they're loaded with anti-nutrients especially spinach spinach is probably the worst vegetable that most people eat when they're eating a healthy diet spinach has loaded with oxalates creates inflammation in your gut people juice spinach like you want to stay away from spinach one of the worst things you can consume and almonds as well by the way almonds are loaded with oxalates it's something that i never eat almonds, almond milk, almond flour, like it'll create almond butter.

44:23Yeah. Yeah. I would stay away from too much of that. What do you even say? Sometimes it's the claims about inflammation that they make in the gut and these really drastic things. And they say it so confidently and they say, I would never consume it. So let's delve into what oxalates actually are, everyone. So it comes from something called oxalic acid. And this is used interchangeably in the scientific community. They'll either say an oxalate or this acid word. So it's basically an organic compound and it's found in loads of plants. I've discussed before the protective properties that plants have, the powerful, amazing things.

44:57And, you know, you get this in leafy greens, this compound, vegetables, fruits, even cocoa, you know, nuts, seeds. It's not just spinach. So for him to just point out almonds and spinach is kind of crazy. But this is often discussed because spinach is, people label spinach as the leafy green that's a source of calcium and the problem you've got is it's not actually one of the best sources of calcium out there because it's got oxalates and it prevents a lot of the calcium from being absorbed by the body but that doesn't mean spinach causes inflammation in your gut and it doesn't mean spinach is bad for you it can still contain lots of other beneficial vitamins and minerals so for most of us it's just not even a concern Ella and we'd only say if you've got an underlying problem like you're working with one of our gastro dietitians in the clinic, or you've got a chronic illness, something that where you are struggling to absorb foods, or you are looking actively at increasing your calcium intake, and I'm doing a diet that's high in calcium, I probably wouldn't include spinach as one of those items of foods.

45:57But it is most definitely not going to kill you. I just can't get over that bit. And oxalates aren't inherently bad. No, no. And your body can produce oxalate on its own, or obtain it from food anyway. So, So, you know, vitamin C is converted to oxalate when it's metabolized. So you can't say don't eat these foods. You know, remember calcium you also get in other areas, guys. Oranges contain calcium, for instance, things you wouldn't think about. But once consumed, to explain, oxalate binds to different minerals and then it forms compounds like calcium oxalate or iron oxalate if it binds to iron.

46:36And this most commonly occurs in our colon. So I think that's why he said it causes inflammation in the gut. It doesn't. It's just where this process occurs. And then it can also take place in the kidneys and other parts of the urinary tract. And for some people, if they have a really, really high diet in oxalates, then it can be linked towards kidney stones. But I'm being honest here. This is really, really, really, really rare. They're taking things out of proportion. They take these really rare conditions and foods and blow it out of proportion just to create clickbait clips. I wonder if these people sell something on the side.

47:14You know, often they sell a supplement themselves and they demonize something to say they've got the solution. But the misinformation is wild. So there is just to clarify for people listening, there is nothing dangerous about eating oxalates. Nothing at all. Nothing unless you have a Crohn's or an underlying gut health condition where you need to be aware of oxalates, but it's not dangerous to eat it. It's just it's not going to help with your calcium. That's it. All your own. Honestly, I may sound a bit blunt. I'm really sorry, everybody. I really appreciate that this is really scary when you see headlines like this, like Will said the one about carrots and people think they make you infertile.

47:52You know, it's just not true. this sort of thing in my opinion should be banned from social media and it has to be regulated it's insane it just becomes impossible for people and i was reading all the comments on these videos it becomes impossible for people to understand what to do yeah because everywhere you look you're being told this is terrible for you this is terrible for you this is terrible for you it's like slashy's bad for you but so spinach and so where are you meant to find this middle ground and it's so overwhelming and then we go on to the fact that this very well-known doctor was on a big u.s show and said word for word two tablespoons of table sugar is better for you than two slices of whole wheat bread my reaction is ella's saying this like my head's in my hands because how can you go out there and tell people on a whole to have that two tablespoons of sugar cane sugar is better for you than bread.

48:46It provides you no nutrients, no nutrition, just going to give you a load of tooth decay and probably a really dodgy tummy if you just eat raw two tablespoons of sugar. It's going to cause your blood sugar to go absolutely haywire. And there is nothing wrong. Cane sugar is not bad either, guys. It's great in cakes, you know, put it in different ingredients. But to say it's better than a whole wheat bread that contains fiber, that contains nutrition. And yes, there's a difference, like I discuss in my next book, The Unprocessed Plate, a lot with bread is an example of a good UPF for so many people.

49:15It has additives in it to extend its shelf life. So for some people out there on a real budget that are really struggling, that don't have a fridge at home, if they've got a slice of whole wheat bread that can sit in their kitchen and not go off, and that's providing them with food so they're not starving, that is a wonderful thing and it still contains fiber. For those of you that are interested in taking those extra additives out and you just want a nice fiber-rich bread and you can afford that, it's a wonderful source of fiber. and bread also contains protein and people don't realize that two slices of bread can contain just as much as a protein biomarketed of protein so to me these types of phrases are just deeply deeply saddening to hear i think the other thing about bread about pasta rice etc is they're great carriers and so yes the bread on its own may not be as nutritious as some other things although as you said it's still got fiber etc but again it's such a great topper you can put avocado you can put hummus you can put anything you can make it into a sandwich pack it with all sorts of things which then give you lots of nutrition same with pasta etc etc and I just think it's just not a very constructive way to think about the world it's a really privileged almost uneducated thing to say from a doctor which is really concerning because you know when you've got no time I'm going to go home tonight.

50:40I haven't prepped any food. The fridge is empty. The shop's coming late tonight. I'm going to get some slices of bread out, probably do scrambled eggs or avocado or baked beans, whatever it is on toast. It's quick and easy. And it's a one off. It's not my everyday item for the kids. But that's still a nutritious meal. And it's fine if it is because it contains protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals. And this is just the real epitome of misinformation online. And I think the epitome of all of that is this clip about water being bad for you. I also believe water is a scam. Water is a solvent, so it's dissolving your body.

51:14The fact that people say it's hydrating your cells is crap. It's not a carbohydrate. It's not a fat. It's not a protein. It's literally a solvent. You put any type of material in water, it dissolves it. That's what it's doing to your body. And same thing with waterway. You're drinking all this water and bloating. There's actually no benefit to it. If you want to hydrate, you have fats, you have juices, you have something that your cells can actually utilize. We're not picking like random niche things that one person has said. And it's this like fully left field, you know, need to know kind of conversation.

51:49This isn't kind of conspiracy. Well, it sort of is conspiracy theory, but in the sense of this isn't a kind of niche. These because of social media and now reaching tens of millions of people. And I think that's why we wanted to talk about it today, because that's the problem is that you've got tens of millions of people seeing that bread is going to kill you, water is going to kill you, spinach will kill you, almonds will kill you, carrots might kill you, lectins will kill you. This is all going to kill you. Then on the other hand, as I said, you've got this kind of world of UPFs, of slushies, etc.

52:22And you're just left. And I would love to hear... And people are just saying protein's the cure to everything. Exactly. And I want to hear what our audience think, because to me, this is the crux of the issue where it's the world of health and wellness has become this kind of click bait wild west which is almost impossible to navigate to have standout to have cut through to have an audience and make that your job now it feels like you've got to be pretty out there yeah because in the olden days you didn't have social media or you didn't have a chance to voice your conspiracy theories and now you do so anyone can get access to them but earlier on in our careers as well and as kind of health and wellness started to to pick up it was the early days of social media and you didn't need to be really really really really left field for people to listen to it talking about lentils and carrots and chickpeas and kind of nutritious food or exercise etc you didn't have to get your body out you didn't have to do any of those things you didn't need that for cut through you needed to be useful and you needed to help people to some extent not to be kind of too that's what it was sacrimonious but it is it was just that it was quite simple and now to get cut through because it's such a saturated space with so many people in it where the way the algorithms work is this kind of clickbait effect essentially it feels like you've got to make claims like this for tens of millions of people to see it and therefore and I want to ask you about this a lot of nutritionists dietitians doctors choose now not to be registered because that allows you to be able to make some other claims to get a bit more cut through and Will you just give our audience, before we get into misinformation, the 101 on that?

53:55Because I think it is really important in understanding who you're listening to as well. It's a real sore spot for me, as Ella knows, and I've discussed it quite a bit, if anyone follows the Retrition channels. Because morally, if you go into healthcare, if you become a doctor, there's that phrase, trust a doctor. You know, if you become a nutritionist or dietitian in the UK anyway, you have a responsibility to abide by a code of conduct, and that's ethics. And we've got a whole list of things that you can and can't say. For instance, when I launched Retrition Plus, my supplement brand, I wasn't allowed to have a picture of me holding my own product because that shows bias.

54:31And I have to always list in press pieces like other examples, two or three. So I'm not showing that I prefer one over another in certain scenarios. There's so much to consider. For doctors, this is even more important because they are the first point of call when anyone needs something. You should go to your GP. and they have a responsibility in society to uphold these guidelines. And the problem now with social media is that I think money talks. Well, I think everyone knows money talks. And I'm not scared to say I'm owning this opinion. I see people who are immensely successful, who still can call themselves a doctor, still can call themselves a nutritionist and not be regulated by the GMC or by the Association for Nutrition dietitians eventually can get pulled down because their title's protected but they can still call themselves a nutritionist because that's not protected yet which is what we're still waiting to hear back from the privy council on the that kind of side case that we've got in the uk at the moment to get the title nutritionist protected but it means these people can sell things to you and have nobody hold them responsible they can say whatever they want they can say these outlandish things about two tablespoons of sugar is better than bread because if you're not choosing to be registered you're not paying to be part of a community I pay voluntary every year to be registered I get nothing back but a slap on the wrist if I do something wrong but that's how I feel morally it's the right thing to do it's there to protect the public and so many now are not choosing to do that because the money they get online is bigger than them actually doctoring or actually being a nutritionist it's absolutely fascinating it's the kind of thing that I think you wouldn't know unless you exist in this industry.

56:15But I don't know if it helps. And I'm not saying everyone's doing that, but I don't think the kind of collective muddiness of the water helps this misinformation. But you've got a voice note for us about why this spread of misinformation has become so rife. I do. Now, my friend Idris, Dr. Ids, you may know him online. He does a lot of those debunking videos online that I think are really difficult to approach or do because you actively have to call someone out. It's quite an aggressive form, but effective of debunking videos. And he's very good at it. It's called Dr. Ids. And he discusses why seed oils, let's use that as an example.

56:49There's so much misinformation about seed oils, for instance. So I think there are several reasons why the hate on seed oils is at an all-time high. Firstly, the rise in popularity of diet fads like animal-based or carnivore diets, you know, likely plays a role. Proponents of these dietary patterns often fall victim to many logical fallacies like the appeal to nature fallacy, which is the idea that just because something is natural, therefore it's better for you. And if something is artificial, therefore it's harmful, right? And of course, seed oils aren't found in nature. You have to process the seed, so they automatically think it's harmful.

57:21Secondly, the rise in chemophobia, especially in the post-COVID era, has likely played a part too. The fact that certain chemicals are used in the manufacturing process of seed oils can sound scary to some people, especially when they don't understand these processes and their function. So big sounding chemicals, you know, also plays a role into the anti-seed oil movement, probably. Another factor is probably the general distrust in science overall. So despite the dozens of controlled human studies independently conducted, which show that seed oils are in fact healthy for a variety of blood markers, you know, blood lipids, liver fat, insulin resistance, inflammatory biomarkers and so on.

57:59it's that often these people won't even care right which means that no matter what evidence you bring to them they'll still fall back on these very superficial arguments like the logical fallacies like the appeal to nature fallacy or just chemophobia in general or the composition fallacy or the you know false equivalence so those are probably the main reasons why the anti-cedor movement has garnered so much attention i think he really summed that up so so so well and And I think it's probably the biggest example of the spread of misinformation. And as we're saying, how difficult it is to navigate the landscape.

58:37And again, we'd just be so curious to hear from you guys on that. On that, I was speaking to someone that owns a huge company in the US last night, and they're having to reformulate all their products from seed oils in the States. Yeah, because of the misinformation on seed oils. They're having to reformulate everything. Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating. It really, really is. And I think the important thing is it's almost for everyone just like find the middle ground. Like we just need to have this more kind of calm, less stressed, less clickbaity, sensationalist viewpoint. It's so reductive and kind of silly in a way to say like go back to the way your grandparents say.

59:16But there is so much in that in when it all gets confusing. Just go back to basics. I know. Absolutely. 100%. Just try and eat a nice balanced meal, guys. I'm a bit lost for words on this episode. I feel like this episode, these trends. Yeah, I'm a bit lost for words as well. But as I said, for me, the key thing here is it highlights this huge dichotomy, which was my whole reason why I called you about this show. and it's my kind of big passion in life because i feel that it's very difficult to help people change the way that they eat in the world today because of this extraordinary split where on the one hand there's this huge proliferation of foods that are very very bad for us slushies in today's episode where it's become normal where you're odd for being at a trampoline park or a birthday party and not wanting your young child to drink something like that left out and so hard or you don't want them to have the ham in the ham and cheese sandwich even though we know it's a carcinogen not saying you can't have every now and again but every single day and then on the other hand you have this demonization this clickbait this algorithm driving kind of insanity where the health and wellness world has become so extreme and it's no longer okay to just talk about crispy lentils or chocolate covered walnuts or these easy things i couldn't even talk about protein because then people think you're saying it's not important but it is important we know this It's just not the most important or singularly important thing.

1:00:40It's very emotive, guys. Food and wellness, because it affects us all, is emotive. It is. But I hope this is like a weekly reminder to find that middle ground and not to get too bogged down in everything you're seeing, reading. Be inspired to exercise, all those examples. Be inspired to make those changes. But don't be overwhelmed. And I think talking about overwhelmed, it segues us on beautifully to our listener question today, which I thought was a really really important question and one that I hope is really helpful this listener said I wanted to say yours and Rhiannon's podcast is my favorite part of the week we love to hear that I get out on a hot girl walk and press play I've learned yeah woo hot girl walk I have learned so much and it really helps me evaluate the advice you see online the advice there is in inverted commas my eating is a lot better since listening to you both I have some nerves about trying out your recipes.

1:01:30I love the look of them and have all the books but I'm nervous to try them as typically nutritious meals tend to incorporate things like nuts and seeds which I do eat as a snack more recently walnuts but they're quite high in calories. How do you eat these delicious meals without gaining weight? I know there's something to be said for mindful eating here but I was wondering if this is something that could be addressed in a podcast at some point please. How do you change this mindset? I know eating these meals will do me the world of good but it's a block I have and I want to get over. It is understandable.

1:01:58Weight loss obviously is difficult. Just to let everyone know, you know, it's never a linear line and something I always say in clinic is that if you are looking at weight loss, first of all, that is okay. That also seems a bit taboo for people saying they want to lose weight because it is okay to embrace all body sizes and shapes, but it's also okay to want to do something for you. So let's just put that out there as well. It's never a straight line weight loss. It never just goes down once you start looking at it, it will plateau and you'll go through periods where it's where you need support or it's very difficult.

1:02:29Now, nuts and seeds, let's take this as an example. They are high in calories and they're high in fat, but the good type of fat. But I would say if you had a snack of walnuts that afternoon, it's probably not a good idea to make a meal with walnuts in as well that day. You've had the walnuts. This is when diversity comes in. This is when you need to pick a different meal off that array of meals and not all meals contain nuts and seeds you know there are so many delicious plant meals I think the big fear comes from seeing these people do these what I eat in a day videos as well if they're plant-based or you know sometimes they don't do that and they're making it up which is why I've got a big thing about what I eat in a day videos there's no way and I can tell there's no way someone is eating exactly what they're sharing a lot of the time you just know that the calorie content is too high and they're gourmet meals they're cooking up fresh three times a day as ella and i have both said it just doesn't happen look at those star meals i call them star meals your hero meal of the day the one that you have time the one that you can embrace to get the diversity in i love star meals i haven't heard about that it's a really nice way of thinking about it yeah i just used to do it in clinic all the time i'd be like look what day of the week can you do a hero or star meal like when when can that happen for you what are we going to make and then do like three portions and put it in lunchbox you know freeze it for the rest of the week but plants are actually low in calories and I think the fear comes from carbohydrates I think and people don't realize they're actually really low in calories like a big place a plate of rice or obviously portions are different for everyone take a large portion like a big cup of your hand of rice or pasta and that's your portion of carbohydrates two outstretched hands of vegetables chuck that on the plate with it the proteins you can get from plants like pulses and beans they are very low in calorie and very high in fiber So where you see a lot of people living in this way, consuming plant-based diets like Ella and I do, the calories actually are lower than you think.

1:04:21It's your eyes are seeing the portion. The calories come from the fats you add to these plant-based meals a lot of the time. They come from the avocados, the nuts, the seeds. So I would just say be sensible about looking at your day rather than the individual meal. If you know a meal is going to have, this comes with education, it comes with practice. Like if I knew I'd had a whole avocado, I probably wouldn't eat another meal that day. I'd actively not consume that and I would choose something different. But genetics count, activity levels count, your age counts. Are you menopausal? Are you not?

1:04:53What is going on with stress levels? Stress is huge. And then mixing it up. So try not to compare yourself would be the biggest bit of advice. And I hope that's been helpful in terms of education when it comes to looking at your unique requirements and seeing these people creating these recipes online because it's great to use for inspiration but you have to apply it in a way that works for you totally and I think the other thing that's worth saying is that these foods tend to be higher in fiber as well which does kind of simply put just going to keep you more full I need to drink more water Ella they need to drink more water if they cook these meals as well explain that a little bit for us sorry I just came out with that i looked at it i was like don't forget the water um when you consume more carbohydrates and fiber you need more water to help your body process those to digest that so to each molecule of carb you attract three or four molecules of water for instance if you're looking at it on a molecular level so you just need to increase your water when you increase your fiber intake and build that up slowly or you're really going to notice your gut going ah help me i'm suddenly eating what these what i eat in a day girls are doing and it's not working for me do it slow do it so yeah but the fiber will probably reduce your appetite at other moments in the day because you will be really really full which is great and it's going to give you that long-lasting energy so you're not going to suddenly be like i'm starving and feel hangry so this isn't sexy guys but before we close the show um there was a study i think it was 2008 or 9 long long time ago but it showed that stool weight really matters so the heavier your poo essentially from all the fiber the healthier you are and in countries around the world where they don't live in westernized societies but they eat a lot of things like tubers and i think it's the tribe that was studied the hadza tribe or hudza tribe were the one at the time and they're studied all the time all the time because they're one of those tribes that live in an environment that's not corrupted by everything we have around us now and yeah they're basically the larger and heavier your poo just to put it out there the healthier you are because of the amount of fiber and they eat way more than 30 grams of fiber a day that we are aiming for and not hitting here.

1:07:05Yeah, it's such good advice. I think the other thing to go back is the closing thought on our episode. It's our first ever episode where we had Giles Yeo to reference him again, talking about the myth of calories and why calories aren't all created equal. I think there is also something a lot to be said instead of thinking how many calories are in that meal to think how much nutrition is in that meal. Thousand percent. I wish I hadn't said calories explaining that, guys. I just know it's what you know. I like to call it energy. Just think of food as energy, but it's not, we can't possibly calculate it 100%.

1:07:33And again, not to be too kind of wishy-washy or reductive to close it, but I think there's something so inherently positive about thinking about a recipe or thinking about that star meal. You know, maybe the one meal a day that you can put a little bit more time and effort into and thinking like, what's going to make me feel great here? Enjoy it. Exactly. Oh, the joy from food. Like when you actually have time to enjoy a meal, it's such a rare opportunity in today's society. yeah so enjoy it and think about what it's doing for you versus breaking it down into calories love love love love so we will see you next week next week we are um going to be releasing the live show tickets so big big big week we can't wait to see you then that's all i got for today amazing i hope you guys enjoyed it keep putting your comments your feedback on the spotify app on your apple app please send us dms as well because we're trying to get this community idea doing we've got a few ideas now we have and in order to reach more people and straight the middle ground that we really want to do please please please please please rate the show five sales if you feel generous and leave a comment that's on apple or spotify and if you're being really really generous and you genuinely are really enjoying it please click follow because this just makes the world of difference for the charts and helps us reach new people so we would appreciate it so much have a great week bye

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