867: College Disorientation

25:05Nevaeh and the BSU made it to February, Black History Month, which meant skate night. Skate night was always one of the biggest events of the year. This year, Nevaeh had thrown a ton of money they'd fundraise into the event. she bought 70 tickets at the local roller rink. And that's how many people she needed to show up for it to be a success. If they could pull this off on their own, it would feel like the BSU was still thriving on campus. So it's a Saturday night, and the event starts at midnight. Hey guys, it's me and Nevaeh here. We're almost at full capacity, so if you're coming with your friends, come soon.

25:37Nevaeh and her VP, Sandrine, are posting on Instagram. Neon-purple lights glow in the background as they talk. The two are dressed up. College night dressed up, that is. Cute tops and jeans. Nevaeh has straightened her usually curly hair. Sandrine's is picked out. They seem giddy. Please, please, please, especially you of you students. We have a limited amount of tickets, but it's so much fun, so please come. Immediately, it's packed. There's a line out the door. And now Nevaeh's biggest worry is that they won't have enough tickets. I was sitting out like the front whatever and I was basically like oh my goodness like I knew the check coming back was going to be thousands of dollars like I knew it because they were like the office too like the people who were working the workers at the classic fund center were being like so you're running out of the wristbands you paid for like we're gonna have to like either you're gonna have to cut people off at the door or like we're gonna have to like keep you know charging you for more people.

26:33And I was basically just like, well, I can't turn anyone away. Like somehow we're going to have to just make this work, right? Like, you know, we just got to do it because people just, this is like our big thing, you know, and everyone was so excited about it too. And so, you know, I was a, people would say maybe a pushover in that sense. And I don't regret it. The night cost them thousands of dollars, money Nevaeh had to scramble to raise, but over 300 people showed up. I definitely felt like a big sense of, I guess, pride, you could say. Like, this is a huge event. So many people are having a great time and enjoying themselves.

27:11And yeah, everyone's just happy and together. And that's what we want. That's what we wanted it to be. She pulled it off. She'd protected the thing that she cared about most, a place where Black students could feel welcome. By the end of the spring semester, she tripled BSU membership.

27:36There's something insidious about the anti-DEI laws. They present themselves as civil rights laws, while eliminating so many of the things that the civil rights movement demanded on university campuses. They present themselves as laws to promote inclusion, open to all, while disappearing all the programs and money and support that actually made Black kids feel welcome. Nevaeh is constantly trying to create space for Black students. The university is literally taking space away. I watched the university do this in real time one day. The Black Student Union used to have a home on campus, the Black Cultural Center.

28:13It had been one of Nevaeh's favorite places on campus. The house was still there, but the university wouldn't tell them what was going to happen with it. They just kept saying they were working on it, and they'd try and reopen it. It just sat there the whole year, often locked. The old Black Cultural Center staff gone. And then at the end of the school year, the university quietly renamed it. It was no longer the Black Cultural Center. It was now the Center for Community and Cultural Engagement. Nevaeh and I drove by. Right to the left, right here. Right here. So you can see that sign outside of it.

28:48Oh, the doors are open. Should we go in? Let's park. Okay. It's a two-story brick house. When we pulled up, the door was actually propped open. Okay, so I guess first just tell me, oh, it still says Black Cultural Center on the door. Yes, on the door. But I think they're in the works of decorating and reassigning things. So on the door, you can see it's like a, what would it be, like a vinyl? Like a vinyl words on the screen door. But then outside of it, the actual sign now says Center for Community and Cultural Engagement instead of Black Cultural Center. And so I guess for right now, it's a good thing that the door still says it with the vinyl lettering.

29:28Okay. When did you hear that the sign was going to change when that that was going to go down? We never heard anything about that. Yeah. Like, and still no one has said that. Are they renaming it now? And that's the questions I have. Because if they're changing that sign and saying that, then like, what does it mean for everything else inside of it? Yeah. I mean, it's just like, there's no communication or transparency once again. Like, it's not like, you know, there was any like public notice. Like, we're so sorry to this community. we're taking away the sign and we're replacing it. Like, we are sorry and we wish we didn't have to do this.

29:58Like, that would go a long way. But, okay, let's see. We open the door and walk into the house. Nevaeh seems annoyed but ready to show me around. Knock, knock. How are you? Good, how are you? I'm good, thank you. There's a white woman sitting behind a desk inside. She's one of the employees of the new center. Nevaeh brightly says hello to her and begins my tour. There's a little seating area and a library of books, Black history books, a signed copy of Langston Hughes. She shows me a meeting room, a kitchen filled with snacks, a bunch of closets all over the house. Like in every room, there is a closet filled with BSU supplies.

30:39Things like notebooks, pencils, postcards, tables, buckets of candy. So you can see like the graduation stalls right there. kind of like African colors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we have like, this sign is used for tabling. So just like... Nevaeh was excited and proud to show me around. But I have to admit, it was also kind of eerie. So much of it is exactly as Nevaeh remembered it. Like, even the former director of the BCC's name is still painted above his office door. This feels like a tour of like, the house you moved out of. Or like, the house you grew up in where you kind of still know where the stuff is.

31:19Yeah, but it's also somehow not, like, in your full... It's not fully in your hands. I don't know. It's weird. But it, like, is a part of our stuff. We end the tour at a beautiful mural by the entrance. It's a big white Sankofa bird with an African tribal pattern behind it. And then, in big block letters next to it, it says, The University of Utah's Black Cultural Center. But, I mean, yeah. I mean, it's interesting. I actually, now that I'm just pointing out to you, like, yeah, the signs are still there. Yeah. It was because we did not know what was going to happen. The staffer at the desk interrupts Nevaeh's tour to explain the sign change.

32:00With all of the middles and stuff. Yeah. We were hoping that we could still keep this name, the Black Cultural Center, but we're going to have to change it. So it is confirmed. Yeah, I saw the sign outside. Yes. And I was like, huh? So when was that decided? Like recent? Kind of, yeah. It was a few months ago, but it was decided that we do need to change it. And then we just haven't gotten around to it because there's still even more changes. And so the CCE will be taking over this building fully. Okay. So this will be for BSU to use a lot too and just everything else. but we're still going to keep a lot of what's on the inside, but we do have to change the name.

32:47Like officially, like in Google Maps and stuff? I know how all of that's going to play out. But it'll change. It will change. Do you know about the decorations on the inside? Is that going to have to be covered up? Nevaeh points to the mural with the bird and the words Black Cultural Center. This might have to go. We're not quite sure. No, that's okay. Thank you. No, yeah. I just have, like, is it because it says black? That's why. Okay. That's what I thought. Because we can't even use the word inclusive. Yeah. We can't say that this is just for black students. So, because, you know, we have to be inclusive without saying inclusive.

33:26Okay. Yeah. No, it's very sad. It's very sad to me. Nevaeh thanks the woman for her honesty, and we start to head out. I appreciate it. You take care, Nevaeh. You too.

33:41Oh man, how are you feeling? I'm going to cry. This is horrible. This is actually horrible. What about that pushed you over the edge? They're officially changing the name, which I didn't think was going to happen. Officially. I don't know. That's crazy. You're really upset. Yeah. No, I am really upset. And I don't want to take it out on her because clearly it's not her fault. But what is going on? Actually, what's going on? and like wouldn't they think to like tell us like they and then she said it would be for the black student union to use if we don't even know like your plans sorry if we don't even know your future plans for it how are we supposed to know that we're welcome there like how are we supposed to think oh yeah we're gonna be fine when they don't even communicate any of that to us and it's not like they don't have my contact they do like they can ask me to do other things they can they can let us know about this and it's just very frustrating and sad to me so it's like the the sign out out front you're like okay it seems like they're changing it but now it just feels like it's official official yeah yeah it does feel official now is that she just confirmed that they for sure are changing it and it just comes back like it just to the exact same thing I was talking about like the word black being so weaponized like it is so incredibly weaponized and that just it it blows my mind how like I don't know I just wish that like maybe their team or something would have just said no like what if they just said no what if they just said no we're not changing the name like what would happen then like would they fire everyone like I don't know I just feel like now like what do we have to lose because now we're losing this like officially it's not just like a it's not just a talk it's not just a fear it's like actually happening and if they're changing the stuff on the inside too then it's like absolutely you're erasing you're Absolutely erasing the center.

35:28Like, I don't know. I'm actually in shock, kind of. Like, is it real? Like, is this real life right now? Because it just feels, like, very dystopian to me.

35:42Nevaeh is no longer the high school kid making chipper morning announcements. Nevaeh is only 20. She was three years old when Obama was elected president, came of age in the era of Black Squares and Black Lives Matter protests. In her mind, the country was shifting to a more accepting place. And where we are now, the world she's navigating, it's so different than the one she grew up believing in. I talked with the university about the sign change. They said, Black gives the impression that the center isn't open to all. So I asked, can you say the word Black? They said it depends. If it's cultural, educational, yes.

36:22If it's tied to resources, no. They said they had to be careful. They run all their events, like Pride Week, Women's Week, Black, anything, by lawyers.

36:39I just want to say one more thing about the word black. It's just a word. Who cares? But it's not. It's a word that was decided on by Black people. There's a long list of shitty and degrading words that white people have lodged at us, enslaved, and murdered us for. Black is the word we got to add to the list. The one that we got to choose. Capital B, Black. We are Black. It's very, call us by our name. Removing Black, taking that off the list of acceptable words, is a way of saying, you don't decide. We do.

37:25Nevaeh, though, she refuses to be erased. Even after that terrible year with the anti-DEI law, Nevaeh is still pushing forward, still determined to keep the Black Student Union alive. She just started her junior year. On the first day of school, she's outside tabling for the BSU. A young woman approaches. She's a transfer student from Oregon. Hi, you guys. What is your name? I'm Deja. Deja, you're beautiful. It's so nice to meet you. My name is Nevaeh, and we're the Black Student Union here. Have you heard about us? Or have you like, no? OK, we'll just totally join. This is our Instagram right here.

38:01So if you just want to join our Instagram. Right now, we're just working on increasing our engagement and our presence on campus. After some things happened last year with the legislature, we got some of our funding taken away. But now we have a fully functioning e-board, and we're going to do a lot of events this year. In this post-DEI era, I think on a lot of campuses, how welcome you are as a Black student, the difference between feeling like you belong or don't belong will depend on if you have a Nevaeh or not.

38:45Meeky Meek reported this story with me Additional editing from Robin Simeon You know how much I need you To have you really feel you You don't have to change a thing No one knows the love you bring Be real black for me Be real black for me He will black for me He will black for me Coming up, since he's away and I'm hosting, we're going to talk about Ira for 15 minutes. That's after the break from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues. This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

40:03Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. Capital One. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. Support for This American Life comes from Mint Mobile. At Mint Mobile, their favorite word is no. No contracts, no monthly bills, no hidden fees. Plans start at$15 a month. Make the switch at mintmobile.com slash American. That's mintmobile.com slash American. Upfront payment of$45 required, equivalent to$15 a month. Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan.

40:47Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Support for This American Life comes from Easy Cater, committed to helping organizations order and manage food for all their business needs. With search tools to help accommodate dietary preferences and stay on budget, plus flexible payment by credit card or invoicing. Easy Cater also offers employee lunch programs, tools to see and control food spend, and 24-7 live customer support, all on one platform. Learn more at easycater.com. It's This American Life. I'm Emanuel Berry, sitting in for Ira Glass. Today's show, College Disorientation. In this hour, we're looking at some of the dramatic shifts in higher education, a flood of executive orders and memos from the Trump administration.

41:35Let me just run down a few of the new directives for America's colleges and universities. There was a January executive order called Ending Radical and Wasteful Government DEI Programs and Preferencing, the Dear Colleague Letter in February. March, a new task force starts to investigate DEI and anti-Semitism. In April, the NIH starts requiring researchers to certify that their colleges do not have any DEI programs. Then, in May, the Department of Justice launches a civil rights fraud initiative. And one of the most dramatic and public interventions the Trump administration has taken on is with a few high-profile elite schools.

42:16Brown, Harvard, Columbia, and the University of Pennsylvania. And that's Act II. Act II, the art of the deal. Something we've never really seen before is a presidential administration withholding millions in federal research money from schools it claims are centers of indoctrination and anti-Semitism. Columbia University was the first school to have one of those showdowns with the administration. It withheld$400 million in federal funding until Colombia agreed to a settlement, one that came with a number of conditions. One of those conditions, the administration wanted Colombia to more formally incorporate a controversial government-approved definition of anti-Semitism.

42:59It's known as the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance Working Definition, IHRA, or IRA for short. The IRA definition was already one of several definitions Colombia considered when it evaluated claims of anti-Semitism. But now, IRA was officially incorporated alongside some new unprecedented government oversight. Professors at Colombia have been trying to figure out what does the IRA definition mean for them and their classes this year. Ike Suresh Kandaraja has been talking to ones who are worried and making plans. The definition itself is pretty straightforward. It's about the length of a tweet.

43:38Basically, anti-Semitism is a hatred of Jews. But it comes with 11 examples that expand on that definition. Most are pretty obvious. Calling for the killing of Jews. Denying the Holocaust. Those are anti-Semitic. But where it gets tricky are a few examples that blur the line between anti-Semitism and criticism of the state of Israel. Professors told me that's the part they're worried about. They have to figure out how to teach under this new rule. I heard about three different strategies. First are the professors who say they can't teach. Mariana Hirsch canceled her class. She teaches comparative literature and gender studies at Columbia.

44:22So the course that I've taught before is called Imaging War, Imagining Peace. And it's about images of war from the Armenian genocide and World War I to the present. Are these images really contesting war or are they still in some ways celebrating war and how the war of images is always part of war? One of the Ira examples on her mind when thinking about her lecture on the first day of class, example 10, comparing contemporary Israeli policies to that of the Nazis. I didn't see how I could teach this course without teaching about the present day images of the war in Gaza. I thought about how I would structure my first class, and it would have been about what kind of images of war become iconic.

45:12You know, little boy in the Warsaw Ghetto, the so-called napalm girl during the Vietnam War. And putting those images of children in Gaza next to the little boy in the Warsaw Ghetto with Nazi soldiers pointing guns at him is implicitly a comparison of IDF soldiers with Nazis. Professor Hirsch has dedicated her career to studying the effects of trauma. She's Jewish, and her parents survived the Holocaust. And she's worried about Ira, partly because in 2023, a student formally accused her of anti-Semitism. It was in a class similar to the one she just described. She shared some recent articles related to the war in Gaza that she thought were important.

45:56But a student complained, saying they weren't relevant to the class, and that some of the reading rationalized acts of anti-Semitism. The charge against Professor Hirsch was eventually dropped, but she came out of it feeling like she can't run her class the way she wants to. And that was before IRA. So that's the first thing Columbia professors are doing, dropping their courses. One of the best-known Palestinian scholars, Rashid Aladi, withdrew his course on modern Middle East history. The professor said in an open letter, It is impossible to teach this course, and much else, in light of Columbia's adoption of the IRA definition of anti-Semitism.

46:45The second thing professors are doing because of IRA, tweaking what they teach. Professor Najem Haider teaches courses about Islam, including Islam in the post-colonial world. He talks about scholars like other people talk about celebs. And one of his favorites is someone he is now concerned about assigning. Hannah Arendt was very ambivalent about the state of Israel, and she was very critical of Zionism and Zionist organizations during Nazi Germany and the run-up to the Holocaust. I gotta say, Hannah Arendt came up in nearly every call, eight times alone in my conversation with Professor Heider.

47:25If you haven't read her, don't worry, it's still early in the semester. The Cliff Notes version is she's an influential Jewish journalist and scholar who fled Nazi Germany. She came to America and famously coined the phrase the banality of evil to describe the mindset in Germany that led to the Holocaust. Like Professor Hirsch, Professor Heider's also worried about that IRA example, the one about drawing comparisons to Nazis, which Arendt does. Now, how am I supposed to teach Hannah Arendt? Because her critique of the state of Israel and Zionism can then be spun as anti-Semitism. So instead of me teaching Hannah Arendt, I have to find a way of getting around Hannah Arendt, but making the same points.

48:12So then I go to Fanon and then I'm talking about Iran. And so what I end up with is a whole class on how Iranian Shiism has taken a religious tradition and made it into a political ideology. And if I make that critique of Iran, I can do that comfortably. But if I were to make a similar critique of Israel, it would be anti-Semitism. And this is what the IHRA definition does. What it does is it creates an exception for Israel, where any critique of Israel is treated differently from a critique of any other modern state. He's already dropped Hannah Arendt from his syllabus. And Professor Haider says his untenured colleagues are going even further out of their way to avoid controversy.

48:57I've had colleagues in Islamic studies who have said, you know, they used to teach modern topics, and now they're going to go back and only teach classical Islam. Because they don't think that they're able to teach modern topics anymore. And what that does is it re-inscribes Orientalism. Orientalism. Sounds like the ramen flavor, but it's a kind of racism. And one of the premises of Orientalism was this idea that you don't teach Islam as a living tradition. You teach it as something in the past that is ossified, right? And so what happens when all your classes on Islamic studies now go back to that?

49:40The third strategy professors are trying is to do nothing. These teachers are not canceling their classes. They're not changing their classes, even though they think the material they teach will be in violation of IRA. Like Professor Thea Abu al-Hajj. She's an educational anthropologist who focuses on Palestinians in the diaspora. She's Palestinian. And she's concerned about the ambiguity of the IRA examples. She wondered if her entire class might violate the IRA example number seven, denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination by claiming that the existence of the state of Israel is a racist endeavor.

50:23I mean, there is no Palestinian scholarship that is not questioning the settler colonial nature of the state. You know, how do I teach the 2018 nationalities law, which states that only Jews have the right to self-determination in the state of Israel? Can I teach that? Can I teach Amnesty's apartheid report? Your answer is yes. My answer is I have. If I'm to teach the things I know about and am an expert on, And I have to be able to teach those things. Her sister, Nadia Abu El-Hajj, is also a professor at Columbia. She teaches an anthropology of war class and directs the Center for Palestine Studies.

51:08And she says she's not considering revising anything for Ira. Not in her class, not in events at the center. So I get the choice we have is do we dance around it or do we just take it head on? And, you know, this is my work. And there's nothing I can, I mean, we could either close the Center of Palestine Studies or we can just take it head on and see what happens. And your thought on this is the latter. Oh, absolutely. This has been my work for over 20 years. So this is so central to what I do that I feel like you want to fire me, fire me. I mean, I'm not going to cave. She's already gamed out in her head how the consequences will unfold.

51:53There'll be a student in class. You'll sign a book. They'll say, this is discriminatory. Now, the accumulation of those charges of discrimination, ultimately, they can fire you. It's never been used that way before, but it's going to be used. And it's going to be the same thing with public events at the center. Someone will come to an event. They will launch a complaint against the Center for Antisemitism and will be in this cycle. She's a tenured professor who, theoretically, they can't fire except in the most extreme circumstances. Do you think you have a job this time next year? I think it'd take a while to fire me, but I don't think it's off the table.

52:36I mean, honestly, I have no idea. She has no idea. And all these professors, they're just guessing. Because Columbia did not just agree to the IRA definition. Columbia agreed to have a monitor, a person who'd watch over everything that Columbia said it would do under its settlement with the government. But what will the monitor do? What's his budget? How many people can he hire? It's unclear. Columbia says the Monitor does not have oversight over academic content or curriculum. But when I read the terms of the agreement, it says the Monitor will have access to, quote, all agreement-related individuals, facilities, disciplinary hearings, and the scene of any occurrence that the Monitor deems necessary.

53:27Also, quote, all documents and data related to the agreement. That seems like a lot of stuff. The monitor, Bart Schwartz, declined to answer our questions. Najem Haider, the religion professor, told me he's been asking his bosses, is this monitor going to be reviewing what I teach? When this was brought up with Columbia administration, they said, oh, don't worry about it. But they always just say, don't worry about it. They don't tell you, well, they are not going to be able to do that. Like if you ask them a question and you say, can this person sit in on my, can they just walk in? They're going to be like, we don't think that's going to happen.

54:05They're not going to say, like, no, they can't. There are no limits that have been set to the degree to which they have access to teaching at Columbia. Were there limits before? There would be no monitor. There's no monitors before. There's no one doing this work. I did talk to one faculty member who falls into none of these three categories when it comes to the IRA definition. She's in a category that I call no big deal. And she comes to that conclusion based on the job that she's had on campus the last two years as co-chair of Columbia's Task Force on Antisemitism, Professor Esther Fuchs. She didn't think the school should formally use Aira.

54:46The task force had a different definition of antisemitism that they recommended. She doesn't like how the government is using antisemitism as a weapon to bully college campuses into all sorts of changes. But unlike her colleagues, she doesn't think Ira is that big a deal. I certainly don't want to give the impression that I believe this is simple. Of course, it's difficult. And I understand why people are frustrated. And I understand why there's differences of opinions. But I don't believe the Trump administration is going to be coming in and monitoring this level of detail at all. And it was very clear in the original agreement, there is no involvement of the federal government in curriculum, in admissions or in faculty hiring.

55:35The agreement does explicitly say the government won't, quote, dictate faculty hiring, university hiring, admissions decisions or the content of academic speech. But the agreement also gives the government broad oversight over academic departments, complaints of anti-Semitism, and admissions. And the agreement requires a review of educational programs to ensure they are, quote, comprehensive and balanced. So you can read it Professor Fuchs' way, or you can read it the way the other professors I talked to read it. But let me just say this. For Professor Fuchs, the conclusion is unambiguous. There's nothing to be scared of.

56:22I mean, people, do your job, for God's sake. Instead of, you know, making students nervous, getting everybody upset. Do your job. Figure it out. That's what we're supposed to be doing. Everybody turn themselves into martyrs here. What a bad joke.

56:42So what is going to happen this year? Which way is this going to go? I read the agreement between the government and Colombia again last night. It's sprawling. For a battle that started over anti-Semitism, the document also covers trans students in locker rooms, and international students, and admissions, and DEI. And what the agreement does is it lets the Trump administration crack down on any of that if it decides the university is out of line. Maybe it'll choose Aira. Maybe it'll choose something else. Between the withholding of hundreds of millions of dollars, Aira, the Monitor, this administration has given themselves a new set of tools to transform higher ed.

57:40Ike Sarish Kandaraja is a producer on our show.

57:51Out in the dark Under the money tree There's no spark Beyond belief And there is no point Definitively

58:14Where do we start? Where do we start out in the dark? Our program was produced by Miki Meek and Emmanuel Jochi. It was edited by Hana Jaffe-Walt. People who put together today's show include Fia Bennon, Zoe Chase, Michael Comete, Suzanne Gabber, Sophie Gill, Valerie Kipnis, Catherine Raimondo, Stone Nelson, Nadia Raymond, Anthony Roman, Ryan Rumry, Francis Swanson, Christopher Swatala, Marisa Robertson-Texter, Nancy Updike, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu. Our managing editor, Sada Abdurrahman, and our senior editor is David Kestenbaum. Special thanks to Malijah Garfield, Sandrine Mimps, Sadie Werner, Catherine von Stockton, Alex Takeda, Karen Kwan, Bilal Kuchay, Maria Karimji, Mike Gavin, Asmat Khan,

59:19special thanks as well to the Office of International Student Services and the Office of International Studies and Programs at Michigan State University and Arno Rosenfeld, who writes a newsletter, anti-Semitism decoded at the forward. Thanks also to our This American Life partners. Sign up as a life partner and you'll get ad-free listening, a greatest hits archive right in your podcast feed, plus regular exclusive bonus episodes, including dozens that we've already released. Join us at thisamericanlife.org slash lifepartners. This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the public radio exchange.

59:58Thanks as always to my boss, Ira Glass, who is off this week doing his side hustle as a personal assistant for Harry and Meghan. One of his most important duties is the wake-up call. For old times' sake, he likes to do it this way. Good morning, Royals. I'm Emanuel Berry. Ira Glass will be back next week with more stories of this American life.

1:00:39Next week on the podcast of This American Life, immigration judges usually don't talk to reporters, but a bunch agreed to go on the record with us to describe what it has been like to do their jobs under the current Trump administration. Pressure to decide cases in the government's favor, firings. It was an assault. It was like an old medieval castle that was under siege. They were slowly cutting off our food supply. Now they're cutting off our air supply. That's next week on the podcast or on your local public radio station.

1:01:28video.