2025 Moments: What Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor does next

0:02Jennie Bond:Sky News, the full story first.

0:10Rhiannon Mills:Coming up from playboy prince to palace pariah, Andrew, a royal whose role is now best described as elephant in the room, had a spectacular fall from grace. It was back in October that his titles were taken from him and he began to prepare for a life in exile. Well, as we head into Christmas here on the Sky News Daily, we're putting that under the microscope with our experts, profiling the moment that Prince Andrew became Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. Thumbtack presents Uncertainty Strikes. I was surrounded. The aisle and the options were closing in. There were paint rollers, satin and matte finish, angle brushes and natural bristles.

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1:09Jennie Bond:How does a banana trigger a CIA-backed coup? Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity? I'm Ed Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open and reveal the world-shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow.

1:44Rhiannon Mills:Hi everyone, welcome to The Daily. And with Christmas fast approaching, we thought we'd take a look back at 2025, but through the prism of some of the moments that defined the year. This time, it's the Andrew formerly known as Prince, and a reminder that whilst titles may be hereditary, credibility is strictly non-transferable.

2:05Jennie Bond:How long have you learned about Andrew and Ed's days? Have you asked the police to cover up for Andrew? Have you asked the police to cover up for Andrew? We have some breaking news coming to us from Buckingham Palace. They have released a statement saying that His Majesty the King has today initiated a formal process to remove the style, titles and honours of Prince Andrew.

2:35Rhiannon Mills:After all sorts of false starts, it was in 2025 that his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein led to him being stripped of pretty much everything bar his name. Not so much him stepping back from public duties as the public and his family stepping back from him. Born a prince, retired a problem. What does the former Duke of York's departure say about the state of the monarchy as we head into 2026? With me, royal commentator Jenny Bond and, of course, our own royal correspondent Rhiannon Mills. 2025 really was the year that kept on giving for royal correspondents, wasn't it? Certainly was. I want you to take us back, though, Rhiannon.

3:15Rhiannon Mills:The King making this incredible announcement that Andrew was to lose his Prince's title, he was to leave the Royal Lodge home in Windsor. By this point, Andrew had already put out his own statement saying he would no longer use his title or honours. What did you make of that? It was a really strange Friday evening. And as so often happens with these big royal stories, there were mutterings that evening that something was maybe coming related to Prince Andrew and his links to Geoffrey Epstein. And I thought, well, hang on a minute. Why would this happen now? I'm not sure that anything is going to happen.

3:48And then, yeah, bang, we had that statement written by Andrew himself in which he announced that after consultation with the king, he was going to relinquish the use of his titles. And it just felt like this extraordinary moment. And just the fact that he was relinquishing his titles that in a way he'd been given what some would say was the honour of announcing it himself was quite something. and then we had to start unpicking, well, why now? And yes, there had been stories about his links to Epstein. Apologies to Epstein. Sarah Ferguson apologising to Epstein. But yeah, for me, it was still that big question of why is it happening now?

4:27Rhiannon Mills:Jenny, there was though this period where Andrew said, I'm not going to use my titles, but technically he still had them. And that wasn't something that I think the public was willing to tolerate. The pressure continued to mount on Andrew.

4:39Jennie Bond:Yeah, I think it was just too confusing a message. and to allow Andrew to put out that statement saying, as always, I'm putting king and country first. I mean, it was risable, really, wasn't it? King and country first, Andrew, really? We know now from the Epstein emails that you did continue seeing him. We know and have known ever since your Newsnight interview that you continued your association, your friendship, as you called it, with this known sex offender. I don't think that's putting king and country first. So the whole statement, it was just far too little and too late.

5:11Rhiannon Mills:Too little too late, Rhiannon. Jenny's just mentioned the Newsnight interview. I mean, that was six years ago, wasn't it? Yeah, six years ago. And actually, in the run up to that interview, Andrew's team were sort of sniffing around and asking a few of us, should he do an interview or not? What was your response? Yes, please. Yes. Well, of course, because you have to remember, back then, he could not do any engagements without people talking about his links to Epstein and something had to be done about it. So anyway, of course, the Newsnight interview happened, all 40, 50 minutes of it, which absolutely was ridiculous to allow him to talk for that amount of time.

5:47And that was the last time that we heard him talk at length about his relationship with Epstein. On that occasion, though, there were a number of things that he didn't do. He didn't apologise for his friendship with Epstein. And he also didn't show any sympathy at all towards Epstein's victims. and of course around that time there were then consequences at that moment his HRH title was taken away from him his patronages his military affiliations that all went under Queen Elizabeth II and then we had this interim period where it's been the story that just has not gone away and so I think what we saw this year was the Roar family saying this has become still too much of a distraction to our work in the run-up to October we had newspaper stories we also had the Virginia Uffrey book looming as well and therefore something had to be done but it's still fascinating why it happened when it did.

6:42Rhiannon Mills:Jenny if this was the story that didn't go away for the best part of six years wasn't that fundamentally because Andrew didn't go away that he was still a presence lurking in the background back then of course for the majority of those six years with all the titles and the trappings of a life as a senior royal.

6:59Jennie Bond:Yes and those trappings and that life are some things that he was very reluctant to give up. As we know, pressure was building on him to move out of his grand mansion, Royal Lodge. But he was stuck in it very, very firmly with both feet, as was the ex-Duchess Fergie. I think he was a presence in the headlines and the newspapers all the time. And it really actually is due to the newspapers, let's face it, that, sorry, Rhiannon, but I think it was the papers that really brought him down because they would not let this go. They had a bone in their teeth and they were just probing and probing those Epstein files until they got what they wanted.

7:38Jennie Bond:And that was to prove that Andrew had lied. And you can't have a Duke of York, a prince, a senior member of the royal family who's a proven liar. It just, it can't be.

7:47Rhiannon Mills:Jenny, just put into context for us, how big of a scandal was this relationship between Andrew and Epstein set against the backdrop of, you know, not an inconsiderable number of previous royal scandals?

8:00Jennie Bond:Yeah, I mean, I've always thought that the Annus Horribilis 1992 could not be topped. And I don't think it has been because that year was story or scandal or gossip or event, one after the other in quick succession. Here, as you are focusing, it has mostly been the Andrew problem that has dominated. But it has been huge. And I think it's huge and almost as big as the Annus Horribilis, almost as big as Diana's death and all that followed. because it's so deeply, deeply offensive and unpleasant. Here we are talking about child abuse, child rape, all of which Andrew has consistently denied, obviously, but in which Epstein was convicted and was guilty.

8:47Jennie Bond:And it is so sordid. I think that's why it has been such a deeply damaging scandal, which the poison had begun to leak, I think, into the reputation of the wider royal family, and that's why it had to end.

9:02Rhiannon Mills:Just put into context then, Forrest, what Andrew has lost, not just as a royal, but as a very senior royal, beyond an invite to Sandringham at Christmas. I think what's really interesting is that around that Newsnight interview, at the time it felt like he had been punished by his mother, by Queen Elizabeth II. The HRH had gone, the military affiliations, the patronages had all gone, and yet there has been this sense of, well, why is he still living in Royal Lodge? Why is he still living on the Windsor estate? And that has been the difficult thing for the Royal family, has been this sense of, well, he's still there, he's still part of the fold.

9:43He was still appearing at family occasions. For example, the Duchess of Kent's funeral.

9:48Rhiannon Mills:This was the moment where he sidles up to William, starts to have a chat and gets the worst side eye I think I've ever seen. It's excruciating to watch. And I think it just showed the difficulty for the family in terms of they were still keeping him part of the fold for those family occasions. And yet this was a big public event. And William was just livid. I think that he was even trying to speak to him. So I think what's happened this year is the story has continued to run and run and run. And so the royal family and the king ultimately has had to take the ultimate steps when it comes to saying, well, these are the things that we can do when it comes to this story.

10:32So we can move him out of Royal Lodge. That was difficult, though, because the crown estate lease that he had and the rental agreement and also stripping him of his prince title, which I could never have imagined happening. This was a title that ultimately was because of the mother that he was born to. And you saw it in his statement. It's about duty, honour. It's about the family. It's about being part of the monarchy. And yet he is now simply Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. Just for the king to take that action, it's extraordinary. And also you have to think of the family dynamic as well. How do you have those conversations within the family and the emotional toll within the family of having those discussions?

11:15but in the end and we have seen this many occasions before the institution had to come first and they openly said that he was basically too much of a distraction to all of their duties and there had been and this was the first time they really admitted this lapses of judgment it was the first time when I was having those conversations that they were actually admitting that that's what had happened.

11:38Rhiannon Mills:Jenny to what extent do you think the Royal Lodge played a part in all of this. The revelation that, of course, he wasn't living in disgrace or exile. He was living a short pony ride away from Winter Castle in the grounds and paying a peppercorn for the privilege.

11:51Jennie Bond:Yes, I think it was the optics, if you like, of the situation, seeing him riding around this idle, rich prince. Nothing better to do, as you say, than ride his pony around. It didn't sit well. I mean, I personally think that the whole of the royal family have far too many properties. but to have the disgraced ex-duke sitting in one of them was too much. And that night, as Rihanna says, was extraordinary. It's always seared on my memory, these moments of royalty. That one is associated with sea bass. I was just putting the sea bass in the frying pan, having a nice dinner, a glass of wine. I thought, Jesus, God, I can't believe that.

12:31Jennie Bond:I had to read it twice, that statement. I could not believe it. I had a toddler around my legs. as I was announcing it on the TV. So, yeah, there we go. An insight into what we do, Jenny. No, it was unbelievable because I did think the previous statement in which he had said, obviously being forced onto his sword and said, I won't be called Duke anymore, I thought and I wrote that I thought that was it, Charles has gone as far as he could. I did not believe he would take that extra step. But I think, as you say, the whole optics of the situation, the continuing publicity, the knowledge that there were millions of Epstein documents still to come out, I think they just thought enough is enough.

13:07Jennie Bond:And it was the lack of contrition as well, because in the statement saying that he was no longer a prince, I thought the most telling, and I will agree, the most telling part of that statement was the bit on the end when the king and Camilla said they wanted it to be known, their sympathies always were and always had been with the sufferers, the victims of abuse. And that was what they wanted to get out there. First time. First time they'd said that in all of those years.

13:31Rhiannon Mills:I mean, let's talk about Virginia Giffray. I mean, one of Andrew's accusers, and as both of you have said, Andrew completely denies those accusations. But there was a multimillion pound payout in a civil case to her. Her death this year and the posthumous publication of her memoirs, again, put the royal family under a very uncomfortable microscope. I think we sometimes forget that she took her own life in April for whatever reason. But that was ahead of the publication of this book. And for the royal family, they knew the book was coming. they didn't know what was going to be in it. And it's an awful read.

14:06It's horrific, the stories that she recounts of her time around Epstein. And I think that's what's always been so difficult for people is the fact that, yes, while Andrew has vehemently denied any of the allegations against him, the fact that he hasn't acknowledged that Epstein did have victims and offered any kind of sympathy towards them. So I think for the royal family to take that step and and within that second statement say, yes, we stand with the victims of sexual violence. And actually, I can see where that came from because of this difficulty within the royal family themselves that you have Queen Camilla, who has done so much work around sexual violence, supporting victims of sexual violence, domestic violence, and also the Duchess of Edinburgh as well.

14:51How can you have senior figures within the royal family talking about those issues and yet there is a man within the family who was accused of horrific abuse despite the fact that he denies that. So I think there had to be that acknowledgement from the royal family which makes you think that actually while everyone says the king ultimately made this decision, there were no doubt others in the background within the family.

15:16Rhiannon Mills:We know, of course, that ultimately the name at the top of the family is Charles but you suggested that there was the involvement of others in the decision. Around when the statements came out, you and I talked on The Daily Podcast about William. And back then I said he's a very principled man and he wants to see the institution being seen to be socially responsible. I think in 2024, as a family, they had the double cancer diagnosis, which completely knocked them sideways. And they were just trying to keep going. Then in 2025, there has been this calmer period with other things. And that, for me, I think is why also as a family, they now kind of had that strength to come together and say, no, we really need to address this.

16:05No matter how difficult this is emotionally within the family. and I think from everything I've heard, William was involved in conversations around this. I have no doubt that the Queen was also involved. Ultimately, though, it was the King's decision and they all stand by that decision that he made.

16:23Rhiannon Mills:Jenny, what of Beatrice and Eugenie? What role is there for them now within the family?

16:28Jennie Bond:Well, I don't think there's going to be any public role for them and you must feel for them. They're two very, very lovely women by all accounts. I haven't met them for a long time but I think they're pretty decent women and they must be completely conflicted now. Their parents, it would seem, after all these years of being the most happily divorced couple in the world, are, it seems, going separate ways. And so they have the royal family inviting them to Sandringham. They have their mother and their father possibly in different places at Christmas. I mean, where do they go? They've got their own families.

16:58Jennie Bond:They must be emotionally very distraught about everything that's happened. Beatrice and Eugenie as well, actually, they've been involved with the King's Foundation. So I think what you see there is the family rallying around them. There were stories that William had gone round and had a word with Beatrice and Eugenie to put pressure on their father. I don't see it, to be honest. I think, if anything, the family have really kind of rallied around those girls. I know that they were invited to Princess of Wales' carol service at Westminster Abbey, but because of a diary clash, they couldn't come.

17:28So I think for the girls, the family will be doing everything they can to support them. In terms of Sarah Ferguson, well, look, you've got to remember that article that appeared in one of the Sunday papers where she'd apologised. Yeah, she'd apologised to Epstein. Her team then turned around that weekend and said to me, well, no, this is because he was ultimately blackmailing her. But immediately all of her charity patronages, they all dropped her. And for a long time, she'd lived this life where she was doing interviews. She was writing her books. She was doing her charity engagements. and that was all completely whipped away from her.

18:03So it's quite difficult to see what happens next with her as well.

18:07Rhiannon Mills:I just wonder, Jenny, if 2026 is the year in which we see a sit-down interview with Sarah. I mean, if she wants to do it, there's probably no one can stop her, is there?

18:17Jennie Bond:I very much hope she doesn't do that, but she might feel, well, I've been cast aside, what have I got to lose? But actually, she has got things to lose. What she's got to lose is the reputation and the love for her daughters from the rest of the royal family. So if she wants to protect them, I think she will stay quiet. I do think that the family actually are aware, though, that both Sarah and Andrew, by all accounts, are a pretty distraught state of mind, particularly Sarah. And they are a family, William particularly, who care about mental health and talk about mental health. And so I think they have a feeling they have to tread just a little bit carefully not to push them too far.