Andrew arrested: Can it get any worse for the Royal Family?

0:02Niall:Sky News, the full story first.

0:09Rhiannon Mills:Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor has been arrested. The King has expressed his deepest concern and says the law must now take its course. Breaking news to bring you now. Thames Valley Police say that Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor has been arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office. Whatever happens next, this will be a birthday Andrew won't forget. Rather than celebrating his 66 years on the planet, he's instead being interviewed under caution. We already knew that Thames Valley Police were investigating, but the news that early on Thursday, the brother of the king was arrested at Sandringham, well, jaws dropped around the world.

0:50Rhiannon Mills:Let's be absolutely clear, being named in the Epstein files is not an indication of misconduct or criminal activity. Andrew has previously denied any wrongdoing in his associations with Jeffrey Epstein. But it's not just Andrew who's been questioned. Charles, how long have you known about Andrew and Epstein? To what extent do you think the royal family has done enough around the Andrew and Epstein issue? Perhaps mindful of the level of public interest, the King says the law must run its course and that the police have his full and wholehearted support and cooperation. Rhiannon Mills, our Royal Correspondent, is outside a very busy Buckingham Palace.

1:32Rhiannon Mills:Understandably, plenty of global media interest in the story. Look, Rhiannon, so what actually happened this morning? What do we know?

1:38Niall:It was probably around nine o 'clock this morning. We started to hear these reports that plainclothes police officers in unmarked cars had been spotted around the Sandringham estate. Then kind of transpired that that was around Wood Farm, which, of course, you and I know is where Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor has recently moved to. And then it was probably around 10 o 'clock that we had the statement that came through from Thames Valley Police. I won't read all it. I'll read the important bits. And they say, as part of the investigation, we've today arrested a man in his 60s from Norfolk on suspicion of misconduct in public office and are carrying out searches at addresses in Berkshire and Norfolk.

2:19Niall:This man remains in police custody at this time. They then gave us an important warning about the fact they're not naming him. And that is because they want to avoid being in contempt of court and other people being in contempt of court. Basically, the assistant chief constable said that following a thorough assessment, we've now opened an investigation. It's important that we protect the integrity and objectivity of our investigation as we work with our partners to investigate this alleged offence. Now, we understand that that man is Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. We know that he lives in Norfolk now after being sent there by the king.

2:53Niall:And we also know that today he is marking his 66th birthday.

2:57Rhiannon Mills:What a way to celebrate. I mean, Rhiannon, in terms, though, of the arrest, what does that now permit the police to do? In essence, I assume interview him.

3:06Niall:And the kind of momentous, historic, unprecedented nature of this is this is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has been arrested on any kind of charge. And also it is the first time in all of the 15 years that we've been talking about Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor and his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. It is the first time that he has been questioned in any way by authorities. So that is why it's really, really significant and also why it is so difficult for members of the royal family. We know that people have been pressuring the royal family to say, look, why are you not encouraging Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor to speak to authorities?

3:47Niall:behind the scenes. I know that conversations have been going on at a family level around all of that. But also Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor will have been having conversations with his lawyers about the best course of action since those Epstein files have been released. And look, you just have to look back at the last time that he spoke at length about Epstein, that dreadful 2019 Newsnight interview. You would suspect his lawyers up until this point would have been saying, look, it is probably best if you don't open yourself up to any form of questioning. Of course, now the police have forced that issue, arresting him this morning, interviewing him under caution.

4:23Niall:No doubt he will now be getting the best possible legal advice that he can in terms of this process as it goes on.

4:29Rhiannon Mills:The charge is misconduct in public office. No charges have yet been brought, but that is the reason for the arrest. Just explain what exactly is misconduct in public office and why are we talking about Andrew in relation to it?

4:42Niall:So in a nutshell, this is using your public position, your public role to benefit either yourself or other individuals. Documents were initially passed to Thames Valley Police by the anti-monarchy group Republic. And last week, Thames Valley Police announced that they were assessing whether or not to launch any kind of investigation into these misconduct in a public office offences. Last week, they also told us that the Crown Prosecution Service were also liaising with them because the Crown Prosecution Service, in the end, the ones who will say, yes, there are enough leads or information for you to progress with an investigation or potentially get a successful prosecution.

5:24Niall:And what we're seeing today is the results of those discussions between Thames Valley Police, Crown Prosecution Service, who have ultimately said, right, yeah, you can press the red button on some kind of investigation. and that is why we had police officers then arriving at Wood Farm and taking Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor in for questioning.

5:44Rhiannon Mills:If someone is found guilty of misconduct in public office, could they end up in prison?

5:51Niall:Look, I am not the legal expert on this one, but from everything I've been listening to, he could face a prison sentence. This is hugely significant and both because of the severity of the charges, the implications in the long run if he is charged and found guilty, but also more widely for the reputation of this place over my shoulder. It is a huge day and a very difficult day. It's probably understating it really for the royal family.

6:20Rhiannon Mills:The key piece of reaction to all of this was from the king himself, but a statement issued under his own name as well.

6:26Niall:And that is what made it different from the statement they gave last week. And I kept banging on about how big that was because everyone kept saying, why has he not appeared on camera? Why has he not spoken openly about this? Why have we not seen him in vision kind of being accountable? Just for them to release that statement last week was a massive deal because over the years, they've tried to avoid this one. And last week, they very openly said, look, the king is concerned about the latest revelations, investigations. But also, now we have had this statement from the king himself. And it's a really personal one.

7:02Niall:It's worth pointing out, I understand that neither the king nor the palace more widely were informed that this arrest was going to happen. So it would have taken them as much by surprise as us. He says, I've learned with the deepest concern, the news about Andrew Mountbatten, Windsor and suspicion of misconduct in public office. Just looking at that, he doesn't even refer to him as his brother. He just uses his name. He then goes on to say, what now follows is the full fair and proper process by which this issue is investigated in the appropriate manner and by the appropriate authorities. And again, reiterates what they said last week.

7:43Niall:In this, as I've said before, they have our full and wholehearted support and cooperation. And also, look, the final sentence just goes to the heart of part of this problem for them. Meanwhile, my family and I will continue in our duty and service to you all. And look, We are seeing the queen out today. We're seeing the king out today. They are continuing to carry on with their engagements. And look, you can be a bit sniffy about all of this, but because of the joy that they know that that brings people and also at a time when people are questioning the heart of what the royal family is all about, they want to be getting out there and doing what ultimately they do best, which is engagements, visits and promoting communities.

8:35Niall:And in some ways saying, look, we are still an important anchor within the United Kingdom, despite what is now going on.

8:45Rhiannon Mills:We now have it from the horse's mouth, the king's mouth, I should say, and in black and white, that they stand ready to help if the police request it. Has that always been the case, though? We still don't know, do we, whether there have been any internal reviews of Andrew's conduct performed by Buckingham Palace.

9:02Niall:There's no doubt that there will be some who will say this has all felt like a long time coming. And certainly from polling that we've done at Sky News, I think people have appreciated the actions that the King took last year. So remember stripping Andrew of his titles, ultimately stripping him of his birthright to be known as a prince and stripping him of his home of over 20 years. But also there has been this sense of what is the right way for the royal family to respond to make sure that they don't prejudice anything. but yeah there's been lots of questions about well if Epstein was being wined and dined in palaces why was this not flagged as a problem sooner when ultimately he was a convicted paedophile from 2008 also have they proactively been going through logs to see who else may have been coming and going when it comes to Epstein and Andrew and also around his trade envoy work.

10:12Niall:We have got to stress Andrew has not responded in any way since the latest drop of the Epstein files. He has consistently denied any wrongdoing. Look, I would not be surprised if already they have very proactively been going through files within the palace. They know the reputational risks are incredibly high around all of this and they need to be seen to be doing the right thing. And that's why we had that statement from the king. Actually, quite quickly, it does feel like there is a change of tack in this reign compared to Queen Elizabeth II.

10:48Rhiannon Mills:I mean, that infamous Newsnight interview with then Prince Andrew, that was seven years ago now. And events, of course, have gathered pace over the past year, two years. But honestly, have the palace been as quick to act around this whole sorry affair as they might have been?

11:06Niall:I think now, in hindsight, it feels very difficult to get our heads round. You talk about the Newsnight interview was seven years ago. Look, 15 years we've been talking about this relationship between Andrew and Epstein and the picture of him appearing in 2010 in a park alongside Epstein. In the Newsnight interview, he said, trying to cut off his relationship with him. This has gone on for a very long time. And yeah, the royal family, I think, now are being criticised for, like, why didn't you do more? It was a different reign. It was Andrew's mother who was on the throne. But I also think the weight of evidence that we see now is certainly more than I ever expected to see.

11:58Niall:various journalists or authors who've tried to dig deep into Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, his links to Jeffrey Epstein, his business contacts, have often found doors closed in their face. FOI requests have been knocked back. So there have been efforts to try and find out more. But what has been so helpful about these Epstein files is we've had an embarrassment of riches, really when it comes to being able to to get that insight into yeah the relationship between Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor Sarah Ferguson Jeffrey Epstein how it continued well after he was arrested on those paedophile charges but also the links between Epstein and other powerful individuals as well and and I'd say the wider question that many people are asking is yeah the family may be being accused of being slow to act but actually there are other authorities around the world who probably have questions to answer about why they didn't ask more questions maybe why they didn't listen to the victims and begin their own probes into into what was going on and now it is fascinating to see that what is it I think it's nine police forces here in the UK are looking into and assessing various aspects of those Epstein documents, not necessarily relating to Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, but more widely to Epstein's crimes and the trafficking of girls around the world.

13:27Niall:Yes, the questions today are being levelled at Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor and the Royal Family, but I think there are huge questions for some very powerful people around the world to answer as well.

13:38Rhiannon Mills:Absolutely. But how damaging would it be to the institution itself if we discover laterally that the palace was not as candid as it might have been, that there was information that might have been pertinent that they chose for whatever reason not to release?

13:55Niall:This is the wider jeopardy for the royal family now. Yes, it's Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor who's been, we understand, arrested. But this was always going to be the difficulty for the royal family if Andrew spoke to any authorities, because it opens up more questions about what was he doing and what did people know. And that is why the statement today, very directly from the king, saying we will help in any way that we can. They know that they have to be seen to be open and accountable on this one. But it doesn't mean that that forensic look into who knew what and when won't be incredibly difficult for them.

14:42Rhiannon Mills:Let's not sugarcoat this. Is this the most serious crisis to affect the monarchy, perhaps since the abdication?

14:50Niall:You have to remember the 1990s. That was a really difficult time for the royal family. As the Queen described it, her anis horribilis. If you weren't around at the time, kind of the salacious appetite of the tabloids to find out every itch and scratch of the kind of personal lives of members of the royal family. And of course, then the institution's reaction to the death of Princess Diana. That was seismic and it had a huge impact for a number of years on both how people felt about the institution more widely and certainly about how people felt about the then Prince of Wales, Prince Charles. this is a really horrible day for them and now all the royal family can do is try their best to remain relevant and remain an important symbol of stability as much as they possibly can and I think we see in that statement what they are very clearly trying to do is separate themselves themselves increasingly from Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor.

15:54Niall:He is out on his own, albeit behind the scenes. We cannot imagine how difficult those family discussions must be. It must be awful. And also, don't forget, you still have a monarch who is having cancer treatment as well.

16:11Rhiannon Mills:Rhiannon, you followed the story for years. You followed Andrew for years. Based on the interactions you have seen between him and the public, him and other members of the royal family, given everything you know about him, how will he be feeling right now?

16:24Niall:It's difficult to know. He's a man who knows his own mind. People have said to me before, he doesn't need the outward affirmation of others. He's very clear in his thoughts and what he thinks is right. And I think you saw that in the Newsnight interview. He was, they allowed him to be interviewed for 50 minutes. And I think what that interview did was it exposed that he's a man who, and he has consistently said this, believes that he has nothing to answer for, that there is no wrongdoing in the interactions that he had with Epstein. But this will come as, I suspect, a big blow to him.

17:10Rhiannon Mills:At the time of talking, Rhiannon, as you say, the King's brother is in police custody, being interviewed under caution. Is this the point then that Parliament may choose to legislate to remove him from the line of succession?

17:25Niall:It's interesting you should ask that. Since October, he's being stripped of his titles. But then people were saying, well, hang on a minute, he's still living in that great big house on the Windsor Estate. So we then had a further update of, right, he's being moved out of Royal Lodge and we're going to move him to Norfolk. Oh, and by the way, we're also going to strip him of being a prince as well. And I think the palace felt like that was enough. They've described it to me as taking a maximalist approach. But then there's still been this issue of, look, he is eighth in line to the throne. When's that going to go?

18:05Niall:Ultimately, that is down to MPs to debate. But Keir Starmer, in an interview today, has said that he won't stand in the way of MPs debating Andrew and his links to Epstein on the floor of the House of Commons. And again, this is the really difficult thing for the royal family is they have no control.

18:26Rhiannon Mills:How does the King now respond? The global news coverage of this story, which we can hear in the background, the number of journalists that have joined you there at Buckingham Palace is just an indicator of the interest in this story.

18:38Niall:In a way, the fact you've got a police investigation, that's sort of, it's restricted what they can do. and all the conversations I keep having is when you say to them, well, why has the King not appeared on camera? People expect our leaders to be there, visible, accountable, showing leadership. Why has the King not done that? And there's a couple of things. One, look, when they've done addresses to the nation in the past, it's been, for example, during the COVID pandemic or outbreak of war. So actually, it's been about moments of national crisis as opposed to personal crisis for the institution.