History Girls: How football came home... again

0:00Best thing that's ever happened to you financially. Go. Easy. Sold my car on Carvana. Amazing offer. Really? I hit 200 on a scratcher. Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check? No. How many scratchers did you hit to get that? I hit a button on Carvana.com once. Okay, that's fair. It's like the lottery, except you always win. Not like the lottery at all, actually. Exactly. Inexplicably good. Offers worth bragging about. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. Hello, Ed Conway here. Here is what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common?

0:41On the surface, not very much. But on my podcast, Stuff Matters, I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them. You will see how together they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now. Just search for it on your podcast app and follow.

1:08Coming up on The Daily, they've done it again. The Lionesses have made history by winning back-to-back European Championship titles. So how on earth did England's women achieve this remarkable feat? Best thing that's ever happened to you financially. Go. Easy. Sold by car on Carvana. Amazing. offer. Really? I hit 200 on a scratcher. Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check? No. How many scratchers did you hit to get that? I hit a button on Carvana.com once. Okay, that's fair. It's like the lottery, except you always win. Not like the lottery at all, actually. Exactly! Inexplicably good.

1:46Offers worth bragging about. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. Hello, Ed Conway here. Here's what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods

2:06Okay,

2:23I'll admit it. I thought it was all over, about half a dozen times in fact. England entered the final in Basel as underdogs, so when reigning world champion Spain went ahead in the 25th minute, well, it seemed that just getting back into the match might be beyond them. But that's the thing, I may have given up, they never did. Such is the confidence that manager Serena Wiegmann has installed in the team. And when Chloe Kelly slotted that last penalty kick, it looked like she knew it was destined to be the winner. Back-to-back success at the Euros, the Lionesses now genuinely have a claim to being the best England side ever, male or female.

3:03So as the team celebrate and the fans come down off that cloud they've been singing Sweet Caroline from, we're going to look a little bit more closely at just how they did it. Later, I've got the former FA Director of Women's Football who hired Wiegmann for the England role, so I think she'll be feeling pretty pleased with herself. But we're going to begin at the England Team Hotel in Zurich. Our sports correspondent, Rob Harris, has been following the girls since the very start. Rob, look, what a night and a win on penalties, which, let's be honest, never really been an area of excellence for the men's side.

3:36This is an England team that knows how to win penalties. The Lionesses have won four in a row. I was there in Australia when they did it in the knockout phase. We saw it on the quarterfinals, of course, against Sweden. and then again in the final. I don't know, Rob, did you ever get the impression at any point in the final itself, after they went down, that England's heads went down? Because I didn't. It felt to me that there was always a bit of belief or maybe just a bit of hope that no matter what the score was on the board, the Lionesses could come back and do it. There was anxiety. Every time Spain pressed forward, particularly in extra time, We were sitting right behind the players' families and, you know, it was Docky defending.

4:22They had to be at their very best. Jess Carter in defence coming straight back into the team, having not started the previous match. And, you know, she's faced a horrific time as well with the race debuts. But she put in an absolutely resilient performance at the heart of the defence. Lucy Bronze revealing she had a broken tibia playing throughout the entire tournament. I found out after the Portugal game, but I knew I was in a lot of pain at the end of the season. I found out. And, yeah, all the England players knew and Serena knew, and I'll do anything to play for England in a voice like that.

4:55She was absolutely relentless. We saw her afterwards, her knees strapped up, but she wanted to give everything. Tell us the tale of the tournament, Rob, because it has not all been plain sailing for England. In fact, arguably, they've been on the back foot since the first match. Yeah, this was always going to be the group of death they faced. And then they opened with that defeat to France. It looked like they were completely going to be struggling. So we came to the second game against the Netherlands and if they lost it, they'd been eliminated. They'd already been the first defending European champions to lose their opening match.

5:32But then it was emphatic against the Dutch Serena Wigman's homeland, a 4-0 victory, followed up by a 6-1 demolition of Wales, but then into the knockout phase. And it was anxious. It put everyone through the ring of the performances. in terms of going behind each time and having to stage those comebacks. Put into context for us that the achievement of this Lioness side, not simply in winning the Euros, not simply in winning the Euros abroad, not simply in winning the Euros in successive competitions, but just the way that they have performed as well. Just give us an idea of the scale of the achievement.

6:15In many ways, this is the greatest English football team ever. Some will say winning the World Cup in 1966 is the pinnacle, but this is the only England team at a senior level to have won two trophies, to have defended their titles, to have won overseas. Wembley was the scene of the success in 2022, to have endured so much as well. And of course, there are longer-term historic challenges that had to be overcome. England banning women's football for 50 years until the early 70s. They had to fight for funding, for status and for their very right to exist as a team. It was only in 1972 that the Lionesses played for the first time as a team when they played Scotland, just as the men did 100 years earlier for their first international.

7:05So that is where they've had to come from. And only in the last decade, the women's Super League becoming fully professional so players can earn a proper living and to have the technical infrastructure around teams, to have the full support. For the Lionesses to be given equal treatment, like the men's team, in terms of how they travel, the support infrastructure, the staffing that they are afforded around the team so they can ensure that their level of skill, their performances have the ability to shine with that full support around them. Thanks, Rob. Fresh off the plane from Basel, former FA Director of Football, Baroness Campbell, or Sue, as we'll be referring to her for the rest of our chat.

7:46She was involved in interviewing Serena Wiegmann for the England job. Sue, genuinely, have you actually been to bed yet? No, not yet. I'm feeling a little weary, and my voice is not its normal self, but I'm OK. Still buoyed up by the absolutely incredible night last night, extraordinary night. So who did you end up watching the match with, Sue? I mean, presumably it was just yourself, a tube of Pringles, maybe a couple of cans of lager. Who were you with? No, not quite. Nice thought. It would have been nice. No, I was in the VIP area, so Prime Minister's wife and his two children were there. Nikki Doucette, who's the chief exec of the women's professional game now.

8:29It was quite an interesting and eclectic group of people, all equally excited, all really joyous at the end. it was pretty special and Sue Day who's my successor as the director of football at the FA was there as well and Sue Hoff who's been the chair of the women's game for a long time we were all together so it felt very special. And I suppose part of the reason that it has felt so special for so many people including yourself is that there have been so many people who have contributed to this Lioness site but ultimately remembering of course England's uncomfortable relationship with penalty shootouts in the past, you've got to give it to the players on the pitch first and foremost.

9:11You know, I'm a great believer that sport, yes, of course, it's about tactics and technique and all of those things, but it's also about the development of people. And you saw this grit, resilience, determination, all the great things that sport can help shape in young people and they are they are an incredible unit and that's absolute credit to Serena when we interviewed for the role there were two outstanding candidates but what Serena absolutely blew us away in the interview with her real vision about one team one mission and she didn't just mean a team of players she meant the team around the team she meant all those sports scientists sports medics You know, the people who do all the analysis, she wanted a complete team, one that was on the same journey together.

10:04And you could see last night, you know, as they celebrated, all the people in the purple tops came rushing out as they got their cup and their medals. That team behind the team has been a massive part of the success as well. So, yeah, I think Serena takes the credit for pulling together that united, very clear, determined group of people to win the Euros. I look at this England side, and as you have said repeatedly just there, they behave as a team. They act like a team. They play as a team. And they are a team on and off the pitch. Yes. Serena was very clear when she came that she wanted this sort of base camp.

10:50And the first base camp that we'd ever done for the women's game was in London 2022. And we did the same in Australia and she's had the same in Switzerland. And the reason she really believes in that is she believes in that time off the pitch, being very much about bonding and about knowing one another and getting to understand each other as people, not just as players. So, you know, she sets it up in a particular way, which allows a lot of recreational downtime, but together time. And, you know, I think that the sports psychologist that's worked with her is outstanding. And I think they've created environments both in London and Australia just outside Sydney and now in Switzerland, which have been really special and unique.

11:42And so that time, particularly in tournaments, that downtime is just as important as the moments when you're training or when you're on the pitch playing the matches. And she's really created something very special the way she's set that up. Interesting you mentioned the psychology there, Sue, because it is very easy for professional sportsmen, professional sportswomen, for their head to go down when they're on the back foot. And arguably, you know, England have been on the back foot, have been fighting from behind ever since the first match and the loss against France. Yes, I was there. That was not the best of evenings.

12:17And I think, you know, this business of, what was it, the 96th minute where we scored against Italy, the two goals we came back from against Sweden, the penalty shootout that was an extraordinary event. How did you get a team to do that? That's what I can't quite understand. And if you could tell me so I can pass it on to, well, a number of Scotland teams. Well, it is about the one team mentality, but it's also, you know, those strong personalities like Lucy, like Georgia Stamway, like the wonderful Captain Lear, who are real leaders and drivers of that, you know, who don't believe they're going to lose.

12:55They don't believe that there isn't still time to draw, still time to play. and they create that kind of never-say-die approach to the way they play, which I think is partly the sports psychologist, partly Serena, of course, again, but it's also the players on the pitch. Let's talk then just a bit more about the boss. And of course, as we already know, you were involved in the hiring process. I suppose England has you to thank for the two Euros championships, that they have won now or not. I just wonder, when you were sitting down with her in that, what I imagine would have been quite a robust, interview process did she have that blueprint this incredibly successful blueprint already in front of her did you get that impression at that point she had a belief that she could win and she had a sense of what that would mean but you know the first two conversations i had with her which were not the formal process they were me trying i mean i had heard great things about her from colleagues and from UEFA and FIFA and you know she was very highly regarded and and so we were trying to see if she we could get her to to come into the competition for the role and my first two conversations with her we shared our backgrounds as PE teachers and she and I talked about you know the importance of international sport inspiring generation of young people to want to play sport but be active.

14:25And she, I think it was the third call it took me before she said yes. She thought about it. She considered it. She liked the big picture. That was my responsibility. My responsibility was not just to support Serena to win tournaments. My responsibility was to grow the game, grow participation, get football into schools, grow the number of coaches and referees in the women's games and then on to, you know, making sure that the women's professional game was set up in a sustainable financial structure. So it's the architecture really of a building that you're talking about. And what you see on that final play is the expression of that architecture.

15:07And the reason that it's great to win it, you know, twice is it shows that the architecture is working, the talent's coming through. because you think about the changes since 22. No Jill Scott, no Ellen White, no Frank Kirby, no Mary Earps, no Millie Bright. They were big players in 22, and now we've got other big players. So you kind of look and you go, that's remarkable. And she's managed that transition. So does she have a set way of doing things? Some of it. but if she does she she's like the greatest kind of um you can imagine an artist painting something she has the greatest skill to paint with what she's got so she looks at the individual players and she knows how to get the best out of them she knows how to blend them she knows how incredibly to substitute so she's got some things in her mind but she doesn't have a rigid format She doesn't have a blueprint that goes with doing it this way.

16:07She has a set of processes she goes through. She's a great artist as well as a great scientist. She has the ability to change things. And that incredible intuition about substitution that you've only seen a few times in British sport. I mean, Alex Ferguson had it. He could switch the momentum in a game. And he didn't just use substitutes for fatigue or injury. He used them to shift momentum. She does the same. It's extraordinary. really. Of course there's pressure, of course when you're down or 2-0 down or 1-0 down, then there's pressure because you need to score a goal. Yeah, then you make your subs and it's incredible that the subs make a difference but the team who's on the pitch of course adapts to that really good too.

16:50So I think the whole team steps up and even players you don't see that much, everyone is stepping up and has her role and contribution to the team performance. She is an incredibly nice person, good person, but she is very steely and she has got this incredible communication style and it's an honest style. You know, she doesn't, it isn't flowery. She tells you it as it is and the players respect that. So, you know, those people sitting on the bench who are probably not going to get on the pitch, she doesn't say, well, maybe if you do this, she's very honest with them. But you look at that collective at the end, when those players come off the bench, there isn't one of them that doesn't feel they're part of it, that they've made it possible.

17:36That's down to her skill. So, yeah, she's a pretty special. For me, I hope it's the role model that anyone who works in women's football will copy, because it's a very classy style of coaching. Well, then let me put you slightly on the spot then, Sue, and sit side by side, you know, the men's team and the women's team, the Lions and the Lionesses. And I'm wondering, when you look at mindset, when you look at the way in which they play, what is the difference between the two of them? Because they feel like markedly different teams, certainly in terms of success they are. Yeah, I mean, Gareth was a values-led coach as well and did some fantastic work with our men's team.

18:21I wouldn't for a moment say he wasn't exactly got the same, very different personality, but absolutely led by values and making players feel involved and putting the pride back in the England shirt. He did a terrific job. I think we're dealing with a very different pathway. you have to remember that people like Millie, Lucy those players that are now superstars or seem to be superstars they had to battle some terrible things to get through to play the game they loved they were told girls don't play, you can't play here just take Leah's example, she would play in a boys team and parents would say don't let that girl beat you, kick her legs I mean you know there were some incredible stories that these women have you know that they are they have never lost their roots they've had to battle to get where they are and i think that makes them pretty special now as the game gets wealthier and players maybe get more support earlier i hope it won't change but the women's game is very different than this men's game where we've got youngsters as early as eight nine in academies and they're you know they're nurtured from that point and I'm not saying that's wrong but it means it's all very I won't say comfortable but it it's it's done everything is given to them these women had to fight for everything until you know four three four five years ago when I came in and had to change a lot of the things around them and that wasn't easy because the resource isn't there in the women's game the men's game is this hugely wealthy game and wealthy expectation the women's game is still not there.

20:03I mean, you know, you might think, having won the Euros and won it again, there's huge investment in the women's game. Not necessarily. And you certainly wouldn't bet against the women bringing home the World Cup before the men do. Yeah, well, that would be pretty special, wouldn't it? Serena's contract goes to 2027, so I think she wants more and more shot at it, because, as you know, she got to the final with the Netherlands, she got to the final with England, and each time she got beaten by the USA and the Netherlands, and and obviously got beaten by Spain in Australia. So, yeah, she wants that, and I'm sure she will be very determined, as will the players, to bring that home.

20:41Thanks, Sue, and well done, England, once again. You can read more reaction to their almost unbelievable win over on the website. The Sky News Daily's back tomorrow. Hello, Ed Conway here. Here is what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas, and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common? On the surface, not very much. But on my podcast, Stuff Matters, I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them. You will see how, together, they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now.

21:18Just search for it on your podcast app and follow.