Hotspots: The reality of life on the frontline of journalism

0:00Alex Crawford:Coming up, Sky's Alex Crawford and Stuart Ramsay regularly report from inside some of the world's most hostile environments. Our new series Hotspots shows us how, and Alex and Stuart are here to tell us more. Thumbtack presents Uncertainty Strikes.

0:16Stuart Ramsay:I was surrounded. The aisle and the options were closing in. There were paint rollers, satin and matte finish, angle brushes and natural bristles. There were too many choices. What if I never got my living room painted? What if I couldn't figure out what type of paint to use? What if I just used Thumbtack? I can hire a top-rated pro that knows everything about interior paint, easily compare prices, and read reviews. Thumbtack knows homes. Download the app today. How does a banana trigger a CIA-backed coup? Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity?

0:55Stuart Ramsay:I'm Ed Conway and in each episode of my new podcast Stuff Matters I take an object, crack it open and reveal the world-shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow.

1:15Can you explain to me why? We're journalists, sir.

1:27Alex Crawford:Sky's Chief Correspondent Stuart Ramsey and Special Correspondent Alex Crawford have, for decades, taken the rest of us to places to which we would never think of travelling. Now, a new digital first series, Hotspots, sheds light on how those stories are told. Some of you may recognise the name Hotspots last broadcast on TV back in 2021. This time around, with multiple cameras and microphones on every member of the team, the series immerses you in the unfiltered, unvarnished realities of reporting from the front line. You'll see and hear in real time just what it takes to bring you the news. This is journalism at its most raw and most genuine in the era of fake news.

2:08Alex Crawford:And I'm glad to say both of them have found time in their globe-trotting schedules to join us on The Daily. Alex, Stuart, I mean, this is a treat, having you both on the podcast at the same time. A rare one indeed. But Alex, let's start with you. hotspots. Tell us why we're returning to it.

2:25Stuart Ramsay:Well, apart from the fact it's absolutely excellent and gripping viewing, I think we're in an era where absolutely everything is doubted. There's so much suspicion, particularly directed towards journalists and our journalism. And this is an attempt to try and grab back the narrative, if you like, show you some really raw, genuine, honest footage and leave the viewers to make up their own minds because we're taking you along a journey, our journeys, our sort of day jobs, if you like, in real time, showing you the unvarnished reality of what happens on the ground, how we go about collecting our stories, what happens, the trauma, the bombs, the bullets, the crying, the fear.

3:10Stuart Ramsay:And it's an attempt to show that there is real, genuine journalism out there. And we're part of that.

3:18Alex Crawford:Stuart, I suppose this is a breakaway from the traditional sort of stuff that you and Alex do. This time around, we get to see the teamwork that goes into making these reports happen. I think that's really the important part of this, is that you can see that the whole of the process that's taking place, it's quite a complex thing to do. It sounds very simple, but actually, while still working, you're actually filming the work taking place. So it's quite hard, but we want it to be as honest as possible so that everyone can see exactly what is happening. But likewise, in the series, we don't go into the story that we're really doing, but it's actually how we do it.

3:54And that's what the holy grail of the whole idea of Hotspots is. If you want to see about the story, then watch our news reports. But you want to see how it's done, then that's what Hotspot is all about.

4:03Alex Crawford:Alex, I suppose in a certain sense, this is kind of Wizard of Oz style peering behind the curtain of how these reports get put together. I mean, what's the utility in that, do you think, for an audience who are not as conversant in the way in which we do journalism?

4:19Stuart Ramsay:I mean, for instance, let's take my own family. I mean, they've been brought up and force fed Sky News and news programmes for all their lives. And when I showed my youngest daughter, she kind of settled down and said, oh, my God, is this your idea of a bedtime story? You know, watching my mother nearly get shot on a regular basis. But also she said, and she's very much Gen Z, and she said she thought much of it was better than the actual report because she said it was really interesting to see the people behind the scenes, the cameraman, the producer, the fixers on the ground, who we rely on on a daily basis to keep us alive and to help us with their experience and skill, but also to see the emotions that the team goes through.

5:04Stuart Ramsay:So I think for that next generation and also for all ages, this is going to be looking behind the curtain, seeing a little bit more about how we do it and why we're doing it to a large extent.

5:19Alex Crawford:Stuart, let's talk about the danger, because, of course, a number of these reports, not all of them, but a number of these reports take you into some of the most dangerous places in the world. And the episodes that I have seen, the thing that really struck me is the way in which when stuff hits the fan, the professionalism kicks in. I think the whole point of Hotspots and the point of our teams, what we're trying to show is that it's not, as Alex says, it's not that we're not scared in any situation. It's not that we're not upset or worried about what's going to happen next. The skill for us as reporters and for the producers and camera crews is to actually continue to operate.

5:57You keep your heart rate down and you try to get it finished. And then I'm hoping in hotspots what you see is perhaps a little bit of the after moments when things have calmed down and we're trying to concentrate on trying to put the piece together. The idea being that you see the process taking place. So it's not just about the actual story or the place where we are at, but actually how we physically go about doing it with elements within the making of the story.

6:21Alex Crawford:Alex, you've mentioned already the lack of trust that there is, actually not just in journalism, but in public institutions across the board. What makes you get out of bed and keep doing what you're doing, knowing that, you know, there will be people out there who even on seeing behind the scenes what goes into making these reports will still have doubt?

6:42Stuart Ramsay:Well, I don't care if they doubt my motivation, because I know what my motivation is, and that is to actually give the unvarnished truth, ask the difficult questions and get to the places where people don't want us to go to. I do care if they think it's not true. And that's basically the foundation of hotspots and largely a lot of our team's reporting is we want people to know this is the truth. I don't care how other people view my motivation, but my actual genuine motivation is to cover those stories that are difficult to get to. That is the motivation, I think. and also to nail lies, to actual cover untruths, to do proper investigations.

7:24Stuart Ramsay:I feel like most journalists, most good, honest journalists, that's also their motivation. I think this is something just to pick up slightly what Alex was saying. British journalism in particular has a tendency to go to cover stories more so than other countries. We're particularly good at it. Foreign coverage has always been extremely good in the United Kingdom. But a lot of the accusations against journalists and a lot in the United States is they don't actually go to the places that they are commenting on. They may know a lot about it, they may have read about it, but they haven't actually necessarily been and spent a lot of time there.

7:55I think what Hotspots is trying to show is that for every report that we do, we have been and seen it for ourselves. And you can see, if you like, by what we're filming of the decision-making process, that it did actually happen.

8:08Stuart Ramsay:Really, I totally agree with that. It's been very frustrating to be a journalist over the past five, ten years, I think, because the drumbeat of undermining journalists and journalism all across the world has been getting louder and more powerful and more influential. Until now, we've got entire generations who don't know whether they're watching fake news or real news. And that has been perpetuated by bad actors, even if they happen to be presidents, prime ministers or world leaders. That is continuing to go on because journalism is the bedrock of the free world. It's a bedrock of democracy. And if we don't fight to save pure journalism, there's going to be an awful lot lost.

8:54Stuart Ramsay:and the world will be a far, far poorer place, it is already becoming that by all this undermining, killing, targeting and just generally ridiculing journalism. When you get the US president belittling a senior female journalist in the White House, surely people have got to sit up and think this is not correct. We've got to somehow fight back and regain the narrative.

9:22Alex Crawford:Stuart, I mean, you're both journalists with decades of experience. I mean, have you ever, over the course of your career, known the world to be in such a state of flux? No, simply put, it is quite remarkable, to the point that friends of mine openly say they stopped watching the news because they just can't take it anymore. It's so depressing. It's quite hard for us to keep doing it, to be honest. And I know within my own team, they are quite a lot younger than me. I've pointed out in the past is what you don't understand, Stuart, is why you're slightly out of kilter at times, is that in the past, if you reported something, there was a general acceptance that people accepted it to be true.

10:02And now it's not only not accepted to be true, but they actually just doubt every element of it. Added to that, the threats of litigation by political parties, both in the UK, but also in the United States, particularly the president. You know, we really have got big problems for journalism. And then we have these awful geopolitical stories that are dreadful. The war in Ukraine, what's happening in Gaza, the West Bank, Donald Trump's war on Latin American drug cartels, which could naturally affect the civilian populations of all various countries in South America. So there's so much going on at the moment.

10:37I understand why people might find it difficult. Perhaps with hotspots also, you can see what's going on. And perhaps you can see how we try to keep an element of humour to everything we do, because you really can't just disappear down this hole of depression, which, trust me, really could easily happen.

10:53Alex Crawford:It is, though, Alex, incredibly difficult to laugh when you look out the window and you see the old world order entirely upturned. I mean, do you find that thrilling or do you find that scary like the rest of us?

11:05Stuart Ramsay:I find it very, very scary, but it's also a really good reason to carry on. Without sounding too grand, I mean, it is kind of our duty. We've got a massive platform, not just as observers in hostile environments and covering stories which are difficult to get to and difficult to report on, But also through our Sky News and through all the multiple other platforms that we have access to, we've got a much larger, louder voice than an ordinary person. And we've got to use it. Our day jobs are pretty extraordinary and it's an absolute privilege to cover it. But honestly, it's also beholden on us when we get to these places, which often politicians, human rights organisations, diplomats, very few people, maybe even the local journalists can't get to.

11:59Stuart Ramsay:It's absolutely incumbent on us to tell the truth and to do it responsibly. And that's what we hope to show through this new hotspot.

12:08Alex Crawford:Stuart, does this Hotspot series give us an insight into the changes in the way in which you and Alex cover these stories? The basic storytelling and the basic journalism of what we do hasn't changed at all. We might have got better at it or we might have got worse at it, but the actual basis of it hasn't changed. And I think that's something that people forget quite often in our industry, is that journalism, how it's delivered, has definitely changed. And the various platforms you might put it on has changed. But actually, the basis of telling the story right at its root always is about people themselves that are affected by that story.

12:48That hasn't changed at all.

12:50Alex Crawford:But we do exist, Alex, don't we, in an age of citizen journalism, that in every corner of the world, someone somewhere will have a mobile phone with a camera trained on what's going on. So I suppose what is the fundamental purpose of the journalism that you two do that can't be done by those who are there on the ground already?

13:08Stuart Ramsay:Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up because I think the lines of journalists and journalism has been blurred because of the citizen journalists, which are basically just people with a camera. I think we've morphed into this world where anyone, it seems, can be a journalist, but they are not necessarily telling the truth or coming from a genuine perspective of what we've all been through, which is to be thoroughly trained, to have done it for many years and to be motivated by telling the truth. There's a whole genre of people who, in my view, are masquerading as journalists, but they are activists or politicians who are using their cameras and their voices to push forward an agenda.

13:55Stuart Ramsay:And that's another thing that as journalists, we need to wrestle control of again. And I've kind of said this for a while. I think there should be a very big demarcation between those who have gone through rigorous journalist training and in apprentices or interns who have got proven credentials. because if we don't value ourselves and our own industry, our own profession, then why should anyone else? But it has become blurred because almost anyone can now be calling themselves a journalist, even if they haven't even been to these places, which they're now commentating on. And because of the new world that we're living in, all these social media platforms, they've got huge, huge audiences, millions, sometimes more than the mainstream media.

14:39Stuart Ramsay:So we have to somehow get back the narrative and get back control of journalism. And I think this is an attempt to try and do that.

14:47Alex Crawford:Let's cast our eyes forward just for a moment. Currently, we have a war in the Eastern Front. We've got war in the Middle East. If you believe the reports, we've got war coming in Southeast Asia and possibly in Central America as well. I mean, where do you think the stories are going to take you in 2026? Gaza is going to be a big story, I'm sure, when eventually people are able to get in. I just cannot see that the Middle East doesn't remain a major world issue going into the next year. Ukraine, well, that's a hard one, isn't it? Are we about to see peace? I cannot believe that Putin is literally going to sign up to peace, whatever he says.

15:24And then, as you mentioned, then, this whole issue of the war on drugs by Donald Trump potentially changing governments in Venezuela, but also potentially carrying out attacks in and around Mexico and Colombia and Ecuador. I think these are big hotspot areas that we'll both be involved in, I'm sure.

15:42Stuart Ramsay:Obviously, Gaza is top of my list. I think also Sudan is a huge current unfolding humanitarian disaster. The area where I live, Turkey, we've got a lot going on around us in Syria and in Lebanon with bombs dropping pretty much on a regular basis despite various agreements. And I think Syria is going to be a big hotspot. And then another personal ambition is Afghanistan, which has been very difficult to get into and difficult to do certain stories inside Afghanistan. But I think it's one that we mustn't take our eye off because four years on, there is gender apartheid going on there and that should be a worry to the world.

16:26Alex Crawford:Just to wrap this up I've watched a couple of episodes already and I think what hotspots and indeed this podcast do very well is show why you do these stories and the practicalities of the reporting. What I wonder if I can get from both of you is how you keep reporting. How do you cope in the gaps between the journalism? Stuart? Well actually funny enough even though you stop on one story you don't actually ever really stop. You're always working on the next one. I'm not saying this is necessarily a good thing, but it is a part of our lives. In fact, possibly too much part of our lives, because that is actually what we do.

17:03And if you're doing the sort of things we do, you really do have to be involved in it all the time. There's too much at stake for you not to be thinking about it to a degree all the time, because that's how you make the right decisions. And wrong decisions could be really, really wrong in our particular line of work.

17:18Stuart Ramsay:I mean, I think you have to be really self-aware about how much you are taking in and how you need to have a break. And I think the sort of mistakes I made early on was not looking after myself enough emotionally and mentally. And I think I've got to know myself a bit more and I really make a very big effort because otherwise I couldn't carry on doing it. And I realise that I need to reconnect with my family, with people who I trust and who I love that are not connected with the work because it is absolutely all consuming. And those who do it are incredibly passionate about it. But also I know that I need to look after myself and my team need to look after ourselves.

17:59Stuart Ramsay:We're all fanatic about exercise because that's a very good way of pumping up your adrenaline and trying to get rid of it all. But also sometimes I just want to vegetate on a sofa and watch really bad TV. Go on, go on. What's your box set? I binge watch a lot of gripping fantasy stuff that is a little bit close to life, but just couldn't. The wild coincidences are just too bad, you know, too much to take in. And I just watch them all. I mean, like slow horses, I thought was fantastic. stick and I'm just gripped by it and then and watch it and watch and realize I've gone through you know two or three days I'm still watching it being lost in that fantasy sometimes better than