Is Brand Beckham damaged by the Brooklyn ‘rift’?

0:00Hello, Ed Conway here. Here is what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common? On the surface, not very much. But on my podcast, Stuff Matters, I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them. You will see how together they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now. Just search for it on your podcast app and follow. Welcome back to the Sky News Daily. I'm Neil Patterson. Now, usually Monday to Thursday at 5pm, you'll find us getting stuck into one of the stories of the moment.

0:38On Fridays, though, we deep dive into someone in the news. Today, it's Brooklyn Beckham and those reports of an almighty feud with his parents. Can Brand Beckham survive and can their relationship? That's next. Hello, Ed Conway here. Here's what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common? On the surface, not very much. But on my podcast, Stuff Matters, I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them. You will see how together they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now.

1:21Just search for it on your podcast app and follow. Today is Valentine's Day and I am making my wife's favourite dish, which is angel hair and pink sauce with, of course, some Cloud 23. And I need some help in the kitchen today. So I have my sous chef. She's going to help me in the kitchen. We have cheese, angel hair pasta, which is the best kind, buttercream. Now, for the uninitiated, that's Brooklyn Beckham, most famous for being the son of David and Victoria, and his actress wife and billionaire's daughter, Nicola Peltz. I say uninitiated. Frankly, if you've spent any time on social media, you'll already be aware of the colossal falling out that's taken place, reports suggesting Brooklyn is not on speaking terms with his parents.

2:07Even if you've missed that, you may well have noticed Brooklyn trying his hand in a few careers. Cooking, obviously. Modelling, even photography. He's never wanted to be seen as a nepo baby, relying on his parents' success to jumpstart his own. You can understand why. David, of course, turned a fantastic football career into a huge business on and off the pitch. Victoria went from Spice Girl to fashion guru. But the Beckham brand, built over decades by the two, it's always relied on them, largely avoiding scandal and remaining as universally likeable as possible. So this spat, or the reports of it at least, pose something of a PR nightmare.

2:47And we'll be speaking to one of the leading figures in brand management, Mark Burkowski, just a wee bit later on. First, though, Clemmie Moody, assistant editor at The Sun and a showbiz journalist her entire career. Clemmie, let's start at the very beginning. How did Brand Beckham get going? I think all credit here must go to Victoria. You know, she's the mastermind behind this. David, obviously, was playing for Manchester United. He was one of the golden boys of the Alex Ferguson era. Victoria was, in her pomp, a Spice Girl, Posh Spice. you know they were a marketing brand's dream. Victoria went with another Spice Girl to watch a Man United game.

3:26They were in the players lounge afterwards. David had seen her on television the night before and said I'm going to marry that woman. They got talking, swapped numbers that night and the rest as they say is history. From the very beginning then it has been the relationship that has been the basis for the brand then. I would say arguably they were the first couple in the world to sort of become a brand in their own right and you know to to create this thing and really they were the first influencers of their time they were stronger together than apart their raison d 'etre really has been to make money and they've done that very very well so they went from being sports people and a pop star to uh you know a global brand that could get endorsement deals left right and center magazine deals back in the day that kind of thing how has this brand persisted for for so long i mean are you surprised that they still have the cash that they do i mean they've got people around them they've got advisors you know that just credit them for their determination they've ridden various storms and got through it and come out somehow they've always reinvented themselves and you know they've now got four kids and they're the next sort of echelon of brown beckham if you like their influences in their own right millions of followers on TikTok and Instagram.

4:41So they're keeping the inheritance line going strong. And they're now 50. She's 51. They're still relevant. They still both look brilliant. And they are as relevant today, if not more so than they were 15, 20 years ago. They wouldn't have got to where they are now, would they, without journalists like yourself being so fascinated? So when you have encountered them, how have you found them? What are they like? What I particularly love about them is they understand the power of the press and media. They don't fight against it. They know they wouldn't be where they are without the likes of me, as much as they might find me incredibly annoying at times.

5:17Writing about them, you know, the press have kept them on the front pages, they do drive traffic, and they know it's a symbiotic relationship, I guess. And they get that it comes to territory. They don't generally, touch wood, fire off legal letters. And that's quite rare in this day and age. They play the game. You know, I've had times where David and I have fallen out and I got a call from his publicist saying I was on a train to Bath and he said, David's furious with something you've written. You're going to get a call. Embrace yourself. He is not a happy camper. And I was like, oh, God. And I was just sitting there on this train journey with my phone, kept going in and out of tunnels, and I thought, oh, God, I'm just going to lose it.

5:56Anyway, he calmed down. He didn't ring. And this is one of my dinner party boasting stories. I know I get Christmas cards every year from him and his dogs. because Victoria has yet to send me a card, but he sent his own Christmas card. But do you think that was because, you know, ultimately these two are genuinely nice people, or is it because they understand the rules of engagement? They understand they have to play the game a bit. I think it's a bit of both. I don't think you can be this successful and be an arsehole. You've got to have something about you. You've got to be charismatic. You've got to be decent.

6:24You know, I think everyone, like them or loathe them, would recognise that they're wonderful parents and really good family people. and as role models, I don't think you get anything much more important, really, than that. The young people at the heart of this supposed spat, Nicole and, of course, Brooklyn. Let's start with Brooklyn. He's had an interesting life. He's certainly got a varied CV, doesn't he? Yeah, I mean, he's probably ultimately, possibly the first Neffo baby we ever wrote about. I mean, his CV, yeah, he's tried lots of careers, bless him. I mean, I think he laughs about it himself now.

7:00He's tried to be a chef. He's tried to be a photographer. He famously wrote a book or shot a book and the photos were blurry and things. He's now trying to be a sort of influencer. He's doing some cooking on his videos. He, again, interestingly, is marketing himself as a brand with his wife, Nicola. I mean, Nicola is someone that I don't know very much about. So tell me about her and how those two kind of came into each other's orbit. They met at the Coachella Festival in 2017, I think. They both had partners, I believe, at the time, but obviously had a chemistry, stayed in touch and then got together later.

7:31It's been a whirlwind romance. She's a 30-year-old American actress. Her sort of one big film was Transformers, which was quite a few years ago now. Her parents, her dad is a multi-billionaire tycoon. I think he's worth 2.1 billion US dollars. You know, he's made a lot of money. His wealth dwarfs that of the Beckhams, which seems astonishing. So I'm sure when they met, the Beckhams were like, phew, we don't have to worry about her being a money grabber. Just on the Nepo Baby accusation, has Brooklyn talked about that? I mean, you say he's joked about it. I mean, what else could he do having been a footballer, a male model, a photographer, a chef, an influencer, and goodness knows what next?

8:13I think he would be, you know, sort of fairly blinkered if he didn't recognise that and talk about it and make fun of it. And I don't think people would take too well to it. But yeah, of course he is. we wouldn't be talking about him now if he wasn't David and Victoria's child. Can we talk about this rift? Now, look, I'm not in the position to speculate, but what we know is that David and Victoria weren't at the wedding renewal. We know that Brooklyn wasn't at the 50th birthday party. I mean, it doesn't look good. It certainly looks like there's been a breakdown in the family. I mean, there's no denying that the optics are terrible and that it is what it is, which is around.

8:54It's been going on, you know, officially for six months now. As you say, it was David's 50th birthday, had a week long celebration. Brooklyn and Nicola weren't present at a single thing. You know, it's very much a case of he says, she says, you know, both sides have different takes and, you know, have different arguments as to why, you know, machinations behind this feud, which, you know, it's it's unseemly. It's not good for the brand, but also the centre of it are two families. And I think families across the UK will have similar situations and a lot of people will relate to it. And weirdly for me, I think it will unite the Beckhams as a brand in this country more than ever.

9:31What can they do to try and limit the fallout, the speculation and, you know, the turning up of the noses and the moving away from the brand? I think there's one really, really obvious solution is that somebody's got to be the bigger person and pick up the phone away from the cameras, away from the press and talk it out and say, I'm sorry, can we try and, you know, do something to end this? And no one's stopping any party from doing it, but for some reason they are both entrenched in their own fury and heartbreak and confusion, and no one seems to be making that first move. Thanks, Clemmie. So let's look at the PR, the brand management side of this, a bit more closely.

10:10Mark Bukowski is a PR expert and media industry commentator. He's also one of the leading figures in the British communications industry and has been for more than 30 years. Mark, good to see you. So how did Brand Beckham come to be such a force for so long? If anybody looks at it as a sort of template of how to build a dynasty, they've done a remarkable job. I mean, it's always been carefully created. It came from a place of two very famous people who evidently fell in love. Together, they were on every front page of every newspaper a lot of the time. It's everybody's crave for those showbiz romances.

10:49From that point, it pivoted because not only did they build a brand, they looked at how that brand would develop post their careers. They learned a lot from their original sort of guru, Simon Fuller, who was the person who kept an eye on that. And they split away from that and then created it. And of course, in recent times, the skill set has been the way that they've managed social media and above all, how they dealt with some incredible lows, sporting lows, relationship lows. And in the background, they have a young family. They've had mentorship from people like Elton John, who had his own battles with the fame and celebrity.

11:31and they protected a family as well to create this dynasty. You know, arguably the family haven't hit the heights that they have had, but they've been mindful of the poisonous atmosphere of fame and what it can do to their children. So how tightly do they, in fact, run this? Or, I mean, how close are they to those who do run the operation? It's a multi-million pound, billion pound business. I wouldn't actually call the Beckhams a class celebrity. They're not up there generating what Hollywood celebrity might might generate like a Tom Hanks or whatever. But they are or Tom Cruise, their mate, but they are significant, you know, with celebrity power.

12:15And if you have that, you need a lot of management. You need stylists, publicists, accountants, counsel, lawyers. you've got a very big team social media sort of people and also deal makers and they've built that team to maintain that brand so how then do they manage this rift with brooklyn and nicola or or can we say at this point they they have failed to do so which is why we are now where we are i think anybody listening or watching this podcast would clearly understand travails of family life The difference here is the world is consuming this soap opera. That is the most difficult thing for them to control.

13:02You have a son who has fallen in love with someone who comes from an incredibly famous and very rich background herself. And it's akin in many ways to what is happening with Harry and Meghan. There are a lot of similarities. But when you have a family rift, if you're not famous, if you're not rich, you can deal with it. When you have a brand as big as the Beckhams, who are known in America, in Japan, in China, or whatever, and this is a painful family issue, but there is no privacy. No matter how much they want that to be private, it's not. And they're having to deal with this rogue element who are generating their own narrative that takes a story out of their control.

13:46And it must be incredibly hurtful for any mother and father to be dealing with a son who has left the fold. There is so much speculation. They're having to see people that they don't know feeding on it through social media and TikTok every day, giving an opinion. It is a horrendous time for them. You look at when David and Victoria were the same age as Brooklyn and Nicola. And as you've been mentioning there, I mean, the one thing that was absent was social media. Part of the media cycle now, isn't it, social media? So much so that, you know, pictures of Brooklyn and his wife posing at their vow renewal get poured over in the same way that we would have had to wait for a 24 hour period to get the celebrity columns in the tabloid papers in this country.

14:35I mean, it's basically just pours petrol on the conflict in real time, doesn't it? Now things sustain. As newspapers, you know, grapple with the age of social media and clickbait media, the editor now is the algorithm. And we, as the audience, react to stories with emotion. We can look at an image and it will be viewed by different people in different ways, driven by emotion of what they feel, whether they like that person. And let me tell you, no matter how famous you are, there's always going to be a group of people who don't like you for whatever reason. They just don't like you. So it's a different world now.

15:13And that is where in Victoria and Davies' early days, there was a certain amount of control. Publicists had the ability to spin stories to their favoured journalists and capture some idea of a narrative. And now it's out of control. And the fame is a curse because you can't escape it. And when you've got a family issue like this, when people are generating a conversation where newspapers and websites, television channels, whatever the media can see the revenue that that story is driving their way, they will keep running it. That has profound effects on mental health of individuals who are famous.

15:54And there's no sympathy for those people who are famous. None at all. What then would be your advice to Victoria and David Beckham? You don't throw the ball back. You don't engage. The people who are generating this story, generating the content around the story, is Brooklyn and his wife. And I think the most important thing any mother and father and siblings would want to do is to create some sort of rapprochement, trying to create some sort of connection. So the priority must be family first, media second. Does this rift, does it actually help Brooklyn Beckham in a way, in the sense that their eyeballs are on him in a way in which they weren't?

16:39I mean, you mentioned at the very beginning, you know, the Beckham story is perhaps a blueprint for the building of a brand. But as you also said, they were both superstars in their own right back then. And frankly, you know, Brooklyn isn't. You're living in the shadow of your parents and you absolutely want to have a self-determination. Look at me for what I am. Look at my values. And I think that's partly what's going on here. Is it good publicity for Brooklyn Beckham and Nicola Petz? Look, you know, I think the old adage is all publicity is good publicity except the obituary notice. I personally think that they should be very careful what they wish for here There's a long-term effect And you might actually score some early hits with sort of publicity And it might look great that you're shoving your pictures out And you're talking about your second wedding But as you said, you know, what has he got to offer?

17:34They're not posh and becks And there's millions more influencers and personalities out there staking the claim for that sort of publicity, doing some extreme things to generate those clicks on the internet. But in the cold light of day, when you look back at some of the decisions you've made without any strategy, without any thought, driven by your own emotion, I think you'll begin to regret it. Mark, many thanks. You're welcome. And that's your lot from The Daily for this week. Listen back to our previous episodes and profiles by scrolling through the Sky News Daily podcast feed. We'll see you again Monday.

18:24Evening. Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car? I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice? I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. Hello, Ed Conway here. Here is what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas, and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common?

19:03On the surface, not very much. But on my podcast Stuff Matters I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them You will see how together they tell a fascinating new story About the world we live in The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now Just search for it on your podcast app and follow