Is the Danish immigration model right for the UK?

0:00Coming up on The Daily with me, Gareth Barlow, the UK's new Home Secretary is looking abroad for answers on illegal immigration. Her inspiration, Denmark. But why our Nordic neighbour? And could its tough approach really work here? How does a banana trigger a CIA-backed coup? Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity? I'm Ed Conway and in each episode of my new podcast Stuff Matters I take an object, crack it open and reveal the world-shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow.

0:45I will be very frank. People come from coming outside who commit serious crimes and do not respect our value and way of life, I don't think they have a place in Europe. And they should be expelled. So we need new solutions that will lower the influx of migrants to Europe. That's the Danish Prime Minister Mehta Fredriksson speaking earlier this year, calling for tougher measures on migration. What might surprise you is that Fredriksson leads Denmark's centre-left Social Democrats. That's the equivalent of Labour here in the UK. And she's become somewhat of a role model for Shabana Mahmood as the Home Secretary unveils a new crackdown on illegal migration.

1:25Save our kids! Save our kids! Save our kids! Save our kids! Aware of the political urgency around immigration and asylum, Mahmood wants to make it easier to deport foreign criminals and small boat migrants, hoping to reduce the, quote, pull factor for those arriving illegally. But can a Danish-style policy really work in Britain? And what does this tell Tell us about the politics of immigration today. Michelle Parch is a professor in global studies at Roskilde University and author of the upcoming book, Unwelcome to Denmark. Good to have you with us. I appreciate you sharing your time. If we start with the very basics, if you were to imagine that I don't know anything about migration and don't know anything about Denmark, which isn't too much of a stretch, what would you describe as the key aspects to this model and what's been introduced?

2:11So if we go back to when Mette Frederiksen, our prime minister, was in opposition, she already announced then that she would have a zero asylum policy if she comes to be in government. And on that note, she won the election. And ever since, what she's also done is to introduce a series of amendments to the Aliens Act, which ensure that the rhetoric is not only tough, but the laws that accompany those narratives is also tougher. So people who have been living here with a migrant heritage background have been struggling because everything that they tick is always changing. And you're always not really sure whether you can ever be safe in Denmark.

2:54So it's quite important to understand that she's become what I'm calling now the Iron Lady on Asylum Policy. She's been going around all European countries, selling her model. If we just look at the numbers, yes, the numbers have been reduced. Because why would you, if your life is in danger, come to a place where your life will remain in danger and you will never be safe? Danger is quite a strong word, isn't it, in a context such as this? What do you mean by the word danger in this perspective? I've interviewed quite a number of Syrians who came to Denmark since 2015-2014. The initial group that I interviewed were young unaccompanied children.

3:33They were under the age of 16. Today, they are in full employment after having learned the Danish language extremely well. They speak very fluently. They're paying taxes. They're fulfilling all their obligations. But their application needs to be reviewed every two years. I'm talking here of people who, when they were still in Syria, they were critical of the Assad regime. And if they are sent back, they would either disappear in the system or be killed. That's the kind of danger I'm talking about. It's the danger to your life. So we need to be very clear when we're talking about asylum seekers.

4:11These are people whose life is in danger. And I think it's quite important that we distinguish between those who have a legal right to protection, whose life is in danger, and those like myself, who luckily carries an EU passport, and I can freely choose to work wherever I want in any EU member state. I think that's quite an important distinction too. If we were to bullet point the key headline policies of the government of Mette Frederiksen, what would those four or five key bullet points be? She started by reducing social benefits for anyone who comes to Denmark. The Danish government then put adverts in Lebanese newspapers to basically say you are not welcome in Denmark.

4:51So they made a whole advertising campaign. Then they introduced something very controversial again called the jewellery law, which meant, and I see that the UK is trying to copy this, which rhetorically stipulates that anything above the amount approximately of£1 ,100 would be confiscated in order for asylum seekers to pay for their stay in Denmark while their application was being processed. Now, I'm saying this because rhetorically that is very strong, but in practice, it has not been implemented. So you see a key factor here is the normalisation of this harsh rhetoric where you repeatedly repeat that people are not welcome.

5:33So you've got the issue of social benefits, the jewellery law. Then you've got the temporary protection, which was quite important. The temporary protection means that you are given protection for two years if your asylum application is successful. but after that you're going to be vetted every two years. So literally even if you are a full active citizen you never know whether you'll be returned back. So it's that kind of harsh rhetoric but also accompanied by harsh laws that are passed through parliament by the majority here that sustain this kind of deterrence strategy and that's why I think she's become a model because if you look at the numbers she's been successful.

6:12UK Home Office advisors have travelled over to Denmark to see what lessons can be learned. What's your understanding of what elements the UK might be looking to copy or at least emulate the spirit of? They're looking at family reunification, temporary protection. They're looking even at issues like the jewellery law. But one very important aspect that I think is missing out in this discussion is what are the implications for Britain as a state now in terms of its obligations, international obligations with regards to the right to protection. And it's important to mention here that Denmark has been under the radar of the United Nations, of international human rights organizations, of the European Court.

6:54So we have a systematic violation of the commitments that Denmark made all the way back if we go to the Convention on the Right of Asylum, when Denmark, ironically, was the first to sign. So we've come a long way from being this open, abiding by humanitarian law and offering protection to people who really need it, to now saying that basically anyone who comes from specific areas of the world, I should say, because there was a completely different take on the Ukrainian issue, but anyone who comes from what is deemed here to be the non-Western area of the world, are not welcome. You mentioned Ukraine, the UK having similar mechanisms to allow Ukrainians to to move over to the United Kingdom.

7:37Obviously, a system in place as well to allow people from Hong Kong to come to the UK, and that's a historic connection there that is unique to the United Kingdom. But what the United Kingdom doesn't want to be unique to Denmark is the change in numbers, because there has been a real shift in the number of people managing to claim asylum. When we look at the figures, they're nothing compared to, say, what Germany received since 2015. They're nothing compared to what countries in the region like Lebanon and Egypt and others like this have received. So we're talking of really small numbers. But just to give you a kind of idea, we had 21 ,316 applications at its peak in 2015.

8:20This was during the refugee crisis. This went down to 1 ,419 the first nine months of 2025. So you see the trajectory there. But importantly, Denmark is also obliged to fill a UN quota for asylum seekers. It has a very small figure for this quota. It has 500. It has not even filled that amount. So it actually froze this quota between 2016 and 2020. And since 2020, only about 200 to 220 quota UN applications have been actually granted asylum. So it's quite important to keep this nuanced because, again, I think what kind of image does the UK want, given that the UK has historically been a multicultural society?

9:11So if we look back at the 60s and the 70s, we had these guest workers coming to the UK and they flourished in a very multicultural society. They contributed to the economy, etc. They brought their families, they built communities, they made Britain the diversity and the vibrant diversity that we used to think about when we think about the UK. But I think there's a big difference here because Denmark historically is a rather homogeneous society. Just talk to me about how public sentiment has shifted, has changed in recent years or even in your time living in Denmark. It's important to also say that the public sentiment is quite divided here, unfortunately.

9:54So my first experience in 2015, I was coming to the main central station in Copenhagen. And, you know, some families from Syria were coming by train. And it was a Friday afternoon. And I just witnessed the rush of people going to help these Syrians with water, with blankets, with toys for their children. And so there's also that part of Denmark that we must not forget. But what Meta Fredriksen is trying to do and has been trying to do is to target those who normally vote for the Danish People's Party. And this is usually in areas in Denmark that are quite remote. So, you know, it's quite a strategic political ploy.

10:34And I think we need to be really careful because in a democracy, we need to have the possibility to debate and to find a middle ground. and not just leave this polarisation to flourish. I'm interested to talk to you about one aspect of the government's plans and laws that it's enacted in Denmark that has proven hugely controversial, the physical destruction of some people's homes. And I'm sure many people will be listening to this going, sorry, what? When I came here in 2014, I was shocked, honestly shocked, to discover that there's something called a ghetto list. So these are areas across Denmark, which are mainly inhabited by what they refer to as non-Western immigrants.

11:21And in the name of integration, the decision was made to tear down these buildings, these family homes where people used to live, in order to rebuild and for them to be better integrated into society. Now we're no longer referring to these areas as ghetto areas, but they are referred to as peril societies. But when you talk to people who live in these areas, including ethnically Danish people who are mixing with so-called non-Western immigrants, they talk about the flourishing of diversity. They talk about having common barbecues. They talk about celebrating different music and different food from different parts of the world.

12:02So we also need to think when we talk about public sentiment, which areas are we talking about, including which generations? What about migrants in Denmark? How have they been impacted by this? I have students here whose parents came in the 70s and the 80s, so they are second, third generation, who have what we call in the UK, you know, a hyphenated identity, so they could be Danish, Iranian, Danish, Iraqi. And I came to the classroom and most of them were crying because there was a huge debate here of who is a real Dane. So if you are second generation Iranian with Iranian heritage, you've been born here, you've taken an education here, you're studying here and you intend to work here.

12:47You're being told you're not Danish enough. So where does that leave you? Because you've never been to Iran, for instance. So your home has always been or at least you have always considered Denmark to be your home. But now you're being told you're no longer safe. And there's another report that finds that most people with a hyphenated identity, 85 % of these people in Danish workplaces do not feel safe. So they are thinking about moving out of Denmark. So that gives us an idea of the impact of this harsh rhetoric about those who are deemed to be others, which is highly problematic from a humanistic point of view, but also, of course, legally.

13:27I'm interested what this has done politically for the Social Democrats in Denmark. What's it done for Mette Frederiksen and her fellow MPs? I can tell you that she's not a very popular prime minister. So what we have tomorrow are municipal elections here. And I sense that the social democrats will, particularly in areas like Copenhagen, I sense that they will have a huge backlash on this, because they are not representing the values that she herself, Mette Frederiksen, talks so highly about, these Danish values, these social, ethical, you know, democratic values that she's been pushing. The only worry I have is that the Danish people's part is moving more extreme, and the social democrats are moving more far right.

14:18So unless there is a solid political party that can fill the gap that is left there in terms of these values we're talking about, then of course, we know the dangers of shifting, you know, to the extreme forms of politics. So I think it's not just Denmark, I think Europe is at the end of world is at a crucial moment where, I mean, we don't want the world to be run by Trump. We don't want the world to, you know, be dictated by someone like Trump who sees politics as transactional. And I'm worried that some people from some political parties in Denmark are actually emulating also Trump's policies.

14:58There will be people, though, who have looked at their lives over the last, well, maybe since 2008, the financial crash perhaps, and gone, it's never got better. And I don't feel any richer. I don't feel as though the economy is any better. I don't feel as though I'm getting enough support from the state. And for them, it is a legitimate concern because perception is so vital in all of this. I think we need to direct this to our politicians and say, how is it that we can have an equal welfare state system? So I think we need to measure up the political debate with, as you say, the feelings and the emotional side of perceptions, but also, you know, how can we have a better economy that is a fair deal for everyone involved?

15:45So do we need better educational systems? Do we need more opportunities for work? Can we have different trajectories for people to get on the social ladder and the economic ladder? These are the conversations that are extremely healthy here. And I would love to see UK committees coming to Denmark and talk about these issues? How can we ensure a fairer society for all? I think that would be a much more beneficial debate. Michelle Parch, Professor in Global Studies at Roskilde University, fascinated to speak to you. Thank you so much. The Daily is back tomorrow. Until then, take care.

16:22How does a banana trigger a CIA-backed coup? Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity? I'm Ed Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world-shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow.