Is Trump now “dictator”-in-chief?

0:00Hello, Ed Conway here. Here is what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common? On the surface, not very much. But on my podcast, Stuff Matters, I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them. You will see how together they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now. Just search for it on your podcast app and follow. James, you're a bit distracted. Well, Mark, I'm watching. Hibs are playing in Europe against Legia Warsaw. They were winning.

0:38It got to four minutes injury time. Legia equalised and we're into extra time. Are you a Hibs fan, yeah? I'm not. You know that. Are you on Tenderhout? I'm not. No, no, no. You always show me up when it comes to soccer. Yeah, or Hibs. Trust me, you're not missing anything. Swindon Town is my team. How come? Because it's close to where the family is in the UK. I respect that. Went to see them the other day. Great fun. Local team. Access to the players for the kids. It's great. Well done, you. Proper football, proper fan.

1:13I'm Mark Stone. And I'm James Matthews. On today's episode, it's a Trump 100 Sky News Daily special. That's because Trump is getting back to his old apprentice days. Donald Trump, you're fired. And you, and you, and you. You get the idea. We'll be asking why. Yes, and I've been out on the streets of Washington, D.C. We've talked a fair bit about the National Guard on the streets of the nation's capital. But what have they been up to? And what is it hiding about the other stuff that's going on? Immigration raids. They have been happening here and I've seen it up close.

1:51James before we get into the ice raids this week is a week where the flags have been at half mast across the country after yet another mass shooting in the United States at a church in Minneapolis primary school age children shot in their first week of the school year while they were attending morning mass two died many others were injured the mayor of Minneapolis Jacob Frey justifiably horrified. These were Minneapolis families. These were American families. And the amount of pain that they are suffering right now is extraordinary. Don't just say this is about thoughts and prayers right now. These kids were literally praying.

2:33It was the first week of school. They were in a church. And so again, James, the debate over gun ownership in the United States. You and I, we've reported on many mass shootings, haven't we? It never gets any easier. It never does. And you know what, Mark? I've actually not covered many mass shootings. The one that I definitely did was in Dunblane, 1996. I remember being in bed a day off, got a call to say one person might have been shot in Dunblane. By the time I got to the phone, 12 people had been killed. And of course, the death count rose to 17. We've had other mass shooting events in the UK since then, but they are thankfully a rare occurrence because the country has banned handguns and semi-automatic weapons.

3:18I'm struck, I don't know about you, but the coverage of this particular shooting, all the discussion I've heard has been about avoidance, about spotting warning signs. Very little talk about weapons themselves, this business of restricting access to guns. It's almost as if that's not part of the conversation anymore, which to me is depressing. Yeah, but it never is. It's all about mental illness. It's about the person, not the gun, and not the fact that the person can get the gun very easily. You mentioned Dunblane. Often people who are pro-gun ownership in the United States will say, well, look, you have mass shootings here in Europe.

3:53You have them all the time. We have mass shootings very, very rarely in Europe. They happen so often here. There's an organization called the Gun Violence Archive. Every time there's a mass shooting, I head to their website just to remind myself of the extraordinary, extraordinary numbers, and they are horrific. As of this week, including what happened in Minneapolis, there have been 834 American children and teenagers killed in the United States. 834. A further 2 ,237 children and teenagers have been injured by gunfire in the United States. Which is fewer than this time last year. So better or at least less bad this year than last year.

4:37But of course, it's all relative. Yeah, it's very depressing, very depressing. Anyway, from that to the mean streets of DC, and they, you know, some would say they are pretty mean at the moment. Yeah, there's a lot going on, Mark. Look around the city, you see people in uniform, military vehicles, National Guard, and you've also got these ICE agents, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement. You were out Mount Pleasant, was it, yesterday morning, what, 7am? Yeah, I was. So the background to the drive that I had to get out and see what was going on is the very visual sign across DC that we've talked about on the podcast previously of the National Guard on the streets.

5:20This is all part of Donald Trump's drive to sort out crime, law and order and immigration in the country. And part of it is about crime. But the other part, as I say, is about trying to deal with the clear problem of immigration in the United States. It's clear that people are anxious about immigration. He's kind of intentionally conflating it all, but there are quite distinct things going on. The National Guard are on the face of it there as a show of force, a show of power for the president, in order to show that he is getting a grip of the crime problem in D.C. It's a problem, but he exaggerates it.

5:54Separately, what we have seen in D.C. is ICE agents. This is the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency out on the streets of D.C. in a way that we have seen them in other cities across the country since Trump came to power. And what they have been doing is rounding people up who they believe to be illegal and detaining them and then, they hope, deporting them. What we wanted to see was this happening firsthand. 7am Tuesday morning, we set out, we drove for about five minutes, two blocks, and suddenly in front of us in Mount Pleasant, it was all unfolding. so we just ran into a local guy here who's who's had a tip off that there is a raid happening a couple of blocks over here so we're just going to see yeah this you can see the flashing lights down here

6:47so we turned off i think it was 17th street onto a side street this is a residential kind of leafy community multicultural multi-income as well which is kind of unusual in dc dc is a city of bubbles In lots of parts of the city, people kind of exist in their own bubbles. There are wealthy neighborhoods, there are very poor neighborhoods. I think Mount Pleasant is kind of a bit different. It's a kind of nice mix, I think. And what we saw in front of us were four vehicles, unmarked cars, but they had flashing lights on them. And what had unfolded was they were stopping a construction truck. In the construction truck were four Latino men.

7:22Three of them were pulled out and were taken to these unmarked cars, put in the cars. and then driven off. But what we saw around us was the visceral reaction of the community, deeply upset by what was going on. Who do you protect? Who do you protect? Who do you protect? Traitor. You mark, Trevor, get your face. Out! Show faces! It's not. You could stop them. Out! Get out of here. Get out of here! Yeah, get out! Get out! You guys have to stop. You have to stand up to the people who are telling you to do this because it's wrong. I don't know where you're from, but go back to where you're from. We don't want you here.

8:14Quite a scene, Mark, and clearly having an impact on, well, everybody, residents, the neighbourhood at large. Yeah, I mean, it's worth saying that Washington is a deeply democratic part of the country. So naturally, these people would be very much against what was happening. But as they see it, they believe that this is kind of the beginning of a police state. And I should say that we do not know why specifically these people were detained. They were in a construction truck. They were on their way to a job. The driver later explained to us that he had his papers, as he put it. The other three in the car did not have their papers.

8:51Now, what we don't know is if they didn't have their papers. By that, I mean their visas or whatever it is that allows them legally to be in the country. Either they didn't have them on them at that point or they're here illegally. We don't know the answer to that. We've contacted ICE to try and find out why they arrested these people. But what appears to be happening, and there are examples of it right across the country, is that speculatively these ICE agents are just pulling over vehicles where they see, frankly, people with brown skin. And then they're asking them what their legal right is to be in the country.

9:23And if they can't provide that legal right there and then, evidence of it, then they are taken away. And that, for the people of Mount Pleasant and for people who worry about Donald Trump and his agenda, is deeply, deeply disturbing. Yeah, 7am, people going to work, the rush hour, kids starting school. Yeah, I mean, and that was the other thing. It was just as kids were getting ready for what would be their second week at school. So there were children there who were watching this unfold. They too were very upset, children in tears. And one of the mothers said to me, look, and actually shouted at the police officers as well.

9:56And I say police officers, side point. They say police on, but they're wearing jeans. They look almost like some sort of a militia rather than an official law enforcement. They don't sort of display precisely which units they're from. They're not from the D.C. Metropolitan Police. So that's an issue as well. But the mother said to me, she said, look, we teach our children to trust the police force. Now we are having to tell our children, do not trust the police. I've lived here for 47 years and I've never seen anything like this. They are occupying the city and our neighbourhoods. They are brutalising people.

10:30They are taking people for no reason. We don't want them here. This is a Donald Trump dominance performance. That, for these people, it's worrying indeed. Muriel Bowser, the Democrat mayor of Washington, D.C., she has given a news conference. She said that she wasn't happy about residents, that she said were living in fear, said there had been a break in trust between police and the community and that people were living in this state of anxiety, but interestingly did acknowledge the surge of federal law enforcement had brought crime down. And I think that reflects the difficulty that Democrats have.

11:11You know, this whole thing has politics threaded through it. And Trump will think that he has his opponents in a snooker. He's hammering crime as an issue. And who doesn't want crime to come down? How do you argue against it when it does come down? You know, people's focus is the figures, not necessarily the arguments beyond that, the cost, the notion of the president with increased control over a military, you know, without the appropriate checks and balances. And that, of course, is the bigger discussion. Yeah, Trump's law, order and control sweep is, I think, as I said, an intentional conflation of different problems.

11:46Violent crime does appear to be down over the past few weeks in the city. Good news, of course, although that's not down to the National Guard, who have not been mainly deployed in the crime challenged areas. Indeed, they were spotted picking up litter near the White House this week, kind of amusingly wearing their khaki, but also high vis jackets as well. There are fewer homeless camps in the city because Donald Trump has ordered the camps to be cleared. It's not as though those people have been housed, they have simply been moved on. And then of course, there is the immigrant thing, the roundup, speculative detentions based on colour.

12:22It's happening in plain sight while everyone appears to be focusing instead on the soldiers on the streets. Bikes the question, is it the beginning of a police state or is it just some sort of temporary Trumpian grip to show that he is in control? Yeah, if you take the view that Trump is an aspiring autocrat, and many do, then he is doing little to discourage that notion. I think look around the city, the look, the feel, there is a feel of creeping authoritarianism. I think we see the furniture being put in place piece by piece, you know, which will desensitise people to the presence of armed military on the streets.

13:02The National Guard's out, you know, and Trump, he has signed an order creating specially trained units to be mobilised in this city and elsewhere to ensure public safety and order. critics are saying this is a move to create a private army out of the National Guard and those same critics say part of the plan is to create an antagonism, create protests, bring about a state of emergency that merits him sending in armed troops and of course who knows where that takes us. As hysterical as it sounds you know people do talk about martial law, that's a view being articulated amongst opponents, certainly.

13:41And I do wonder what happens when there is dispute, as there surely will be around the midterms next year. The law, I suspect, will be tested in the courts. How the law is enforced could well be tested too. And, you know, that has the potential to get messy. Couldn't agree more. The military and militia-looking law enforcement on the streets under the president's control in an election cycle. That, James, I think, is the crunch point.

14:13Mark, speaking of authoritarianism, dictators and all of that, did you see the cabinet meeting this week? I did. It was the longest ever. In fact, the longest period of time that Trump has spent on camera in one continuous period since he took office. Three hours and 20 minutes, James. Three hours, 20 minutes. Absolutely extraordinary. And, you know, it kind of felt unbecoming. Thank you for your leadership, for your boldness, for your clarity, for common sense. Mr. President, working for this government, for you, is the greatest honour of my life. You have brought us back from the edge. The country just feels different.

14:54Mr. President, I invite you to see your big, beautiful face on a banner in front of the Department of Labour because you are really the transformational president of the American worker. And there's only one thing I wish for, that that noble committee finally gets its act together and realises that you are the single finest candidate since this Nobel award was ever talked about to receive that reward. Big, beautiful face, James. Yeah, Mark, I just want to say thanks for your friendship, journalism, professionalism, and for your big, beautiful face. So if those clips were part of a sort of end of term, goodbye, Donald Trump, he's retiring, he's moving on, he's stepping down, you might kind of...

15:39It would still be sick making. Of course it would, but you could kind of understand it's, you know, swan song. But it's not. This was just a regular Tuesday cabinet meeting. Yeah, I mean, that's Kim Jong-un stuff, isn't it? Saddam Hussein queuing up to kiss the ring. We certainly have seen the swagger of Donald Trump in recent days, haven't we? He's a man, very comfortable and confident, I think, in his own skin and status in a way that he wasn't first time round. You know, when he had internal dissent, he was in the Oval Office a few days ago when the World Cup trophy was there. Open neck shirt, baseball cap with the words, Trump was right about everything on it.

16:19You know, riffing on everything, all the subjects of the day. It was like the granddad you'd taken to the seaside. You know, I mean, that baseball cap, for goodness sake, kiss me quick, squeeze me slow. He's a president enjoying a power that he didn't have first time round, unencumbered by dissent, fawned over by all around him. The kind of behavior, did I say it, bestowed on dictators. And, you know, that's a word that it's not just me using that word. He used it himself. So the line is that I'm a dictator, but I stop crying. So a lot of people say, you know, if that's the case, I'd rather have a dictator.

16:55But I'm not a dictator. I just know how to stop crime. You have to ask what it says about him, that he not only clearly enjoys all this sycophancy, but he doesn't stop it. You know, he's encouraging it. What does that say about his insecurities, maybe? I just don't know. Look, speculative observation alert. But it is for me, as I say, just also unbecoming of the office. The president is there to serve the people. The sycophantic theatre of the cabinet was kind of remarkable. There was one exception, I thought, and I'm watching this particular gentleman closely, Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, National Security Advisor as well.

17:32In fact, I think he holds four jobs. He always appears to look decidedly uncomfortable in these settings. Is that just his kind of resting face or is it something else? I think he's one to watch. I think he will be running in 2028. Yeah, if Donald Trump listens to this podcast, Mark, I think you've just signed his death warrant. I think what you have is the court of King Donald, don't you? Which I think will alarm anybody who trusts in government as a robust democratic process of getting the best for the country and its people. everyone around that table has a responsibility to represent the public interest that will necessarily bring them into conflict with fellow cabinet members sure but also with the man at the top and who amongst that lot has the courage of their convictions to argue their case to engage in debate disagreement with a view to obtaining securing a shared consensus that benefits the greater good.

18:32I think the answer to that is nobody. It's all about pleasing one man and doing what he wants. That's unhealthy. And it's not how democracy should operate, you know, cartoon stuff. Yeah, the last voice you heard in our little compile there of Sykovancy, the compile of praise was Steve Witkoff, Donald Trump's Middle East envoy, and of course, the envoy to Ukraine, Russia as well. You are, he said, the finest single candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize. And yet, put that statement against the fact that the Ukraine war, worse and worse, Gaza, worse and worse, the other wars that Trump says he has solved, some of them, yes, resolved, some somewhat resolved, some of them, they weren't actually actively fighting anyway.

19:16Just take Ukraine, for example, two weeks ago, Trump was with Putin, you were there, James, in Alaska, I bet that feels like a long time ago now. Yeah, it certainly does. Yeah. Then the Europeans came to town here to DC. I was there for that. There was genuine momentum. There was movement on Trump's claim that he was going to provide security guarantees. But look where we are now. It's all for nowt, apparently. So much over the past few months, James, I've tried to see Trump's strategy to give him the benefit of the doubt, to wonder whether his unorthodox methods might just yield results. It's our job to be sceptical.

19:50And that includes being sceptical of the sceptics, those who say that Trump was always a hopeless con man. Our job, I think, is to take that, but look for perhaps the avenues where maybe he can and will make a difference. But, you know, I'll remain sceptical of everything. Right now, though, observing this administration, they have yet to come anywhere close to persuading me that they're doing anything other than making all this up as they go along. Yeah, I'm not sure the latest episode with the CDC will change your mind, will it? Well, he's firing everyone now, isn't he? Well, yeah, CDC stands for the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

20:27Currently, it stands for bitter struggle, where politics meets the health of the nation, not necessarily in a good way. The agency's boss, one Robert Kennedy Jr., the health secretary, nephew of JFK, RFK Jr., he's an anti-vaxxer, conspiracy theorist. He has called the CDC in the past a cesspool of corruption. So there is history. But this week on Wednesday night, he decided to fire its boss, a woman by the name of Susan Menares. We need strong leadership that will go in there and that will be able to execute on President Trump's broad ambitions. The agency is in trouble and we need to fix it. And we are fixing it.

21:12and it may be that some people should not be working there anymore. Now, Susan Menares, she's resisted RFK's stance on vaccines, is currently refusing to leave her role. She's accused RFK Jr. of weaponising public health and has said she won't rubber stamp unscientific, reckless directives. So the whole issue has prompted upheaval at the top of the CDC, has prompted the resignation of four other senior figures at the organisation. So it's a big deal and a big concern for people. You know, you're talking about scientists whose expertise is keeping the nation healthy, being browbeaten by this man, the anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist.

21:56Yeah, there's also the fact that the order to fire her came from above, from the Oval Office. Donald Trump's opponents see another stage in the effort to deconstruct the administrative state. This is Donald Trump meddling in institutions he has no power to control, they say. Look, James, I don't think we can avoid the conclusion that this is a president determined to have more. He has said as much. More power, more overreach, more relevance, and even more gold in the Oval Office. It's certainly looking gaudier by the day. His supporters would have it no other way. His critics, well, they're shuddering.

22:29Yeah, President, hell-bent on more power. That's the certainty. The big uncertainty is who's going to stop him. Anyway, that is it for this week. Labour Day this weekend. James, any plans? To do as little labour as I can, Mark. What about you? Very good. You won't be looking at the Hibs score, I shouldn't think. Well, I'm staring at it. Now, 3-3 on the night, but on aggregate, it's 5-4. Till Legia Warsaw, the Hibs got beat again, I'm sorry to say. Story of my life. Come on, Swindon Town, though. You know the email address, trump100 at sky.uk on socials as well. Leave a comment. We'll find them and we will respond if we can.

23:13But that is it for this week. Bye bye for now. All of us.

23:21Hello, Ed Conway here. Here is what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common? On the surface, Not very much. But on my podcast, Stuff Matters, I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them. You will see how, together, they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now. Just search for it on your podcast app and follow.