Mandelson – the biggest political scandal since Profumo?

0:02Niall:Sky News, the full story first.

0:08Van:Coming up, secrets being shared, a government on the edge, young women exploited by men of power and influence. This isn't 2026, instead 1963 and the perfumo affair.

0:24Van:There's been one story in town this week, the relationship between Peter Mandelson and Jeffrey Epstein, but there's been a parallel drawn in the coverage that you might not be entirely familiar with. The Epstein and Mandelson scandal is being described as the greatest this country has faced since the Profumo affair of 1960. Think about the 20th century, you know, the Profumo affair. This could potentially be one of the political scandals of this century. On the face of it, it looks like one of the biggest crises, scandals about standards in public life, I don't know, since Profumo? In the early 1960s, the Secretary of State for War, John Profumo, was having an affair with a very young woman named Christine Keeler.

1:06Van:She was herself connected to a Soviet spy. When the truth finally emerged, it ended careers, shook the government and exposed how instinctively the establishment closes ranks when scandal threatens power. Decades later, doesn't it all feel just a bit familiar?

1:23Niall:It's shocking that the Profumo affair was 60 years ago, and yet here we are still looking at members of the establishment, male members of the establishment, who feel they're beyond the normal rules.

1:35Van:Vanessa Holborn is author of the Profumo affair.

1:38Niall:They will lie to get what they want. They will deny allegations. For as long as they can, they will exploit vulnerable girls and young women. You know, we have this aspect, these Russian overtones, the threat to national security that Mandelson allegedly, you know, passed on information to other countries. And the naivety, perhaps on the part of our own prime minister, echoes how Harold Macmillan was so happy to believe that, you know, this rising star of the Tory party, Profumo, couldn't possibly have done anything wrong. Let's not forget Mandelson had already been made to resign twice from the Labour government under Blair and Gordon Brown.

2:20Niall:And yet Starmer still gave him that third chance, you know, still wanted to believe that he could do his job properly. It's an even actually the fact that now the Profumo files have been closed. The archives are not available for the public and have not been and will not be opened. They've been officially sealed by the government for reasons of national security until 2048. And now we're looking at Keir Starmer saying, oh, I can't release some of the Epstein information or the Mandelson files because of national security, because it might prejudice a police case further down the line. That's another interesting parallel.

3:00Niall:So it feels like this impenetrable male upper echelons of society are still living exactly how they wish, perhaps with rules that don't apply to the rest of us.

3:11Van:So some parallels definitely between the two scandals, but the Profumo affair happened at a very different time in the country's history. Just take me back to the early 60s. What was Britain like?

3:22Niall:It's very interesting, a very divided 1960s. I think we think of it as the swinging 60s, but there were still quite a lot of old fashioned ideas, obviously post rationing, things like that. So I think perhaps we think that we'd all recovered from the war, but we hadn't. And a lot of the people in charge of the country were very conservative with a small C as well as a large C. So, yeah, promiscuity, homosexuality, any kind of gender fluidity was just not tolerated, despite the fact that perhaps a lot of those people in the establishment were enjoying the high life.

3:59Van:One of the men who was at the centre of the scandal, he gave his name to the affair, John Profumo. He was very much part of the establishment, wasn't he?

4:05Niall:He was such a lucky, privileged individual. Aristocracy, best schools, Oxford, even though perhaps he wasn't that academically bright, but was very much a rising star in the Tory party at the time. He became the youngest MP for the Tories, and he was very much fetid. Everyone loved him. He could do no wrong, although he was a well-known rascal, ladies' man, married to a beautiful actress who'd had her own career, well educated, well connected, everything that could propel you further. You know, at one point they did consider that he might be a future prime minister.

4:42Van:In what way was he a ladies' man? What was known about him at the time?

4:46Niall:There was a very well-known club in Soho, Murray's, where Christine Keeler and lots of other of her friends and associates worked and played. and so the women there would be topless. Some would be dancing but if you were topless you had to stand still. That was the law at the time. They also did that hostess thing where they'd go and sit next to these rich, charming men and encourage them to buy drinks. So yeah, he'd definitely be out in his club and many other locations in London chasing young women even though he was married.

5:19Van:So how high did he rise in government? Where was he at the time all of this was going on?

5:24Niall:He was the minister for war at the time. So obviously, very well connected to everyone that played a part in politics in that day, and also very well connected to the royal family, definitely had friends in high places. And that continued throughout his life, even after his fall from grace. You know, he was still invited to Thatcher's birthday party, Queen Mother, you know, all those those kind of people he associated with.

5:52Van:But we've already mentioned the other name at the heart of this saga, Christine Keeler. Just tell me a little bit more about her and how exactly did the two of them meet?

6:00Niall:so christine keeler absolute polar opposite to profumo she was very young she was 18 when she met profumo she had absolutely no supportive background she grew up very impoverished lived in a disused sort of railway carriage no education to speak of and she was living in london at the time working as a sort of model dancer whatever work she could get she was friends with a person called Stephen Ward and she lived with him at the time as a flatmate. He was a society osteopath, well-connected. He rented a house in the grounds of Cliveden. Cliveden is a big stately home that at the time was owned by the Aster family.

6:43Niall:Bill Aster was a big friend of Profumo. So Profumo and his wife were up for the weekend enjoying Cliveden, the country estate, and Christine was up visiting Stephen Ward in the cottage on the grounds. They met at the swimming pool, which they both were using at the time, and apparently Profumo was immediately infatuated with her and flirted with her there, tried to get her number, which she told him, oh, it's the same as Stephen's number. The next day, Profumo got straight on her case, trying to contact her, wanting to date her.

7:19Van:Vanessa, tell me more about Stephen Ward, society osteopath But this was a man who had connections And he played a key role in the unfolding of this scandal

7:29Niall:He was unusual, I guess, to be involved in the establishment In that he was probably, you know, politically He did support more socialist politics But he was apparently a fantastic osteopath And had helped lots of very well-connected individuals with sort of back complaints. We're talking Churchill, Gandhi, stars of the stage and screen, newspaper editors, and everyone liked him. He made sure he surrounded himself with lots of young, attractive women, which was a magnet, obviously, for people. You know, he was a bon viveur, I suppose, enjoyed partying. Not only did he have friends in politics, he had friends in newspapers and he had friends in high society.

8:15Niall:So in that respect, He was a perfect mark, if you like, for anyone who might be looking to penetrate English society and potentially look for secrets.

8:27Van:A politician sleeping with a much younger woman whilst married to another woman. That is a story that we have heard, frankly, all the way to the present day. What happened with this particular affair that turned it into the scandal that we know it now is?

8:43Niall:So a key element of the Perfumo affair would be the entrance into the stage of a Russian diplomat, Eugene Ivanov. He became friendly with Stephen Ward, spent a lot of time with him. Some would say this was deliberately targeted. Others would just say they were natural friends. Because Keeler and Stephen Ward shared a house, that gave Ivanov, you know, great access to Keeler. So there is a suspicion that perhaps she was being manipulated either by Stephen Ward or by the Russian diplomat to engage in pillow talk, if you like, with Profumo as minister for war. Just little tidbits that perhaps could be useful.

9:28Niall:Ivanov has claimed in his biography that he gained access to certain people's houses because of his friendship with Stephen Ward and that he had cameras in his clothing that his wife had sewn in there so that he could take pictures of important documents, anything basically that was left carelessly around.

9:48Van:So if anyone had known about the affair between the Minister of War and a girl who works in clubs in Soho, who was at the same time dealing with in inverted commas, a Russian diplomat. I mean, it doesn't look good. So how did this all unravel for Profumo?

10:05Niall:It was noticed that there were lots of other things going on in the background that brought sort of Stephen Ward and Christine Keeler to the attention of the authorities. You know, London society was very small, I think, in those days. So yes, people did know and people did warn Profumo that perhaps visiting Stephen Ward, who might be considered friendly to the Soviets, was not a good idea and that he should call this relationship with Christine Keeler off. And because of that, in some ways it was his downfall because he then wrote her a letter on headed notepaper and it's known as the Dear Darling letter.

10:38Niall:And he writes to Keeler and says, Dear Darling, you know, we've got to call it off and I hope to see you soon kind of thing. There's lots of interpretations. Profumo told his son that that was it. That's when the relationship ended and that's what that note meant. Christine Keeler will say that it was just a temporary hold, if you like, while the fuss died down. But that letter then gave Christine Keeler proof, evidence of their affair. And there was a kind of newspaper bidding war, if you like, to get access to that letter. And that letter became quite contentious, because obviously it proved the affair, because up until that point, you could deny things quite easily.

11:17Van:And deny them he did. And ultimately, of course, being caught in that lie was what ended his time as a frontline politician, didn't it?

11:25Niall:Absolutely. The Conservatives were in government. A Labour politician who found out about all these goings-on and the top Conservatives met, had a little powwow and they said, right, he has to deny this. They pulled him in in the early hours of the morning and said, tell us the truth, have you been seeing this girl? And apparently he denied it to these top politicians. So the next morning got up in the house and said, Absolutely not. My relationship with Christine Keeler is all above board. I just know her as someone who shares a home with someone that I've visited a couple of times. There's nothing in it.

12:01Niall:And if anyone says anything, then I will sue them. You know, he spoke about he'd be quite ready to take people to court for libel. So, you know, gave a very firm denial that he had an affair with Christine Keeler.

12:15Van:In terms of scandal, over the past few years, it has often felt like there has been a political scandal every 48 hours in SW1. I mean, how big a moment was this in British politics at the time?

12:27Niall:They have always called it the biggest British political scandal. I think it was so shocking because perhaps it was the first time that people on the street had been able to question the sort of ultimate moral compass of the establishment. At that point in time, it was a very deferential society. We looked up to people who held positions of authority. It gave the public quite a shock that these were the people in charge of our country.

12:55Van:What happened to Perfuhr?

12:56Niall:He had to resign when the story broke that he had indeed been lying. You cannot lie to the house. People often say, oh, he had to resign and he lost his position and, you know, he left with his tail between his legs. But actually, him and his family just sort of went off to their country house for a bit. And then they spent a lot of time touring around other people's lovely locations in England while the heat died down. Money-wise, he was absolutely fine because he went off and worked for the family business, which is the Prudential. He didn't have a loss of income or anything awful like that.

13:30And he was still accepted by society.

13:33Niall:He also did some charity work, which he was much applauded for, was given an OBE for that charity work. He was very much forgiven, I think, by the Conservative Party and high society, whereas Christine Keeler ended up in jail.

13:48Van:That, Vanessa, is the contrast at the heart of this story that has always stuck with me. The way in which Profumo, who was, you know, the adult, the politician, the way that he was treated and the way that she was treated after all this.

14:02Niall:Yeah, absolutely. You have a married, educated, 40 plus year old man in a relationship with a very young girl from no background at all. She struggled financially for the rest of her life. The public vilified her when she gave evidence at the Stephen Ward case. She was pelted with eggs. She had to go round the back eventually. She had death threats phoned into the newspapers. Further down the line, you know, the very famous photographs that we know of her sitting on the chair, things like that. She made very little money out of those. Quite often they went into a management company who ripped her off again because she was a very trusting individual.