The triathlete president who's now Trump's favourite: Alexander Stubb

0:00Hello, Ed Conway here. Here is what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common? On the surface, not very much. But on my podcast, Stuff Matters, I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them. You will see how together they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now. Just search for it on your podcast app and follow. On this episode of the Sky News Daily with me, Tamara Cohen. Who is the Finnish president who seems to be Trump's go-to ally?

0:37Hello, Ed Conway here. Here is what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common? On the surface, not very much. But on my podcast, Stuff Matters, I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them. You will see how together they tell a fascinating new story. about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now. Just search for it on your podcast app and follow.

1:12Alexander Stubb is the president of Finland and it's become clear he's made quite an impression on Donald Trump. You look better than I've ever seen you look. But you've done a great job and we wanted to have you here because you're somebody that we all respect. That was in the Oval Office on Monday with European leaders to talk about Ukraine. He joined the big hitters from the UK, France, Germany and the EU. So who is the media-savvy 57-year-old who nearly became a golf pro, has held most of his country's top jobs and is on speed dial to the leader of the free world? Well, he's a very good golfer, OK?

1:49By the way, Alex, I'd like you to say a couple of words too. You're a young, powerful man. Before I finish up, I want you to say a couple of words. Go ahead. I'll take the notion of youth back to my wife and try to convince her. It's not just Trump who's a fan. President Zelensky has praised his leadership on Ukraine. I want to thank President Stoop for standing with Ukraine, for supporting our people and for helping build a connection with President Trump. He's only been president since last year, taking over from Sanna Marin, the woman who became president at only 34 years old and took Finland into NATO.

2:29But he's become a strong voice on Ukraine. Back in April, our international affairs editor Dominic Waghorn asked Dub what advice he was giving to Trump about Putin. And my message to President Trump when he asked, can I trust Putin, was no, you can't. What did he say in return? Well, we'll leave those things out on the golf course. So could this unusual and blossoming relationship between the President of Finland and the President of the United States actually make a difference to peace talks. Shortly, we'll speak to Jonas Pirello-Plesner, who was a diplomat at the Danish embassy in Washington during Trump's first term.

3:04Alexander Stubb is this sort of Nordic wonder man that can do everything. But first, Joel Linneinmacki is a former political advisor in the Finnish government. Joel, Stubb is not well known in the UK. What's he like? What impression does he make on people? Finland is a small country. We have a saying here that it's not a country, it's a country club. Stup, when you meet him in person, he's a professional politician. He's a very optimistic and charismatic person. He's very eager to connect with people. It's easy to approach him on the street or ask him for a selfie. He's very well known for that in Finland.

3:40He's an athletic guy. He's been into many different sports during his long career. He used to be a pro golfer. something that he now relates to Trump with. He's an Ironman. He's been into triathlons for a long time. I think he really puts the same amount of effort and dedication into politics that he puts into sports. Tell us about his political career, because he kind of climbed the ladder in politics, but then left and came back. Well, it's actually quite a story. He's a Europeanist. He studied European politics. did his BA at Furman University actually in the US but then went on to do his MA in the College of Europe where he met his wife who is British by the way a dual citizen and the first lady of Finland these days basically he became one of the top ministers in Finland before ever becoming a member of parliament but he had always served in the European parliament at the time he came in as this kind of young lion very fresh-faced, energetic, new type of politician who was talking about European Union and all these exciting European ideas.

4:53So he got into politics, he was kind of catapulted into politics, and he then became prime minister, but he didn't actually stay prime minister for that long. Yes. So sadly, for his party at the time, there were some domestic issues which ended up with this party losing popularity and they were not doing that well. They lost an election and left Finnish politics entirely in 2016. So he'd been kind of ousted as prime minister. He decided to take time out. He went to the European Investment Bank and it looked like he wasn't coming back to politics. But then suddenly he did make this comeback. Was it a surprise?

5:33It's a huge comeback story, actually. He was away from Finnish domestic politics for seven years. At one point, he pledged that he would never return to Finnish politics because the cost to his family and cost to himself and his well-being would be too high. He rarely spoke to Finnish media during those seven years. Then when we had a presidential election in 2023, he suddenly announced that he's coming back to run for president. He feels that he has something to give to the country. And actually, when he came back, he had a completely new, almost like a profile in Finnish politics. When he left, he was a fresh-faced, young lion, very energetic, taking risks, asking Finnish diplomats to come to or join X and start tweeting and whatnot, which at the time, believe it or not, was a very modern thing to do.

6:23And when he came back to Finnish politics to run for president, he came back as a more restrained character. He spoke slower. He seemed to be more pensive, more this statement-like character. Now, a lot had, of course, changed in Finland at that time. The Ukraine war was underway. You'd joined NATO after many years of not wanting to join NATO. And do you think his internationalist outlook made him the man for the moment? That was definitely part of the story and a main plank of his campaign. He was selling himself as a staunch pro-transatlanticist. He's always been in the pro-NATO camp in Finland, even when it was not that popular.

7:05So now he was able to sell himself as this right man for the new NATO era and finish foreign security policy at a time when many things were very worried about Russia's aggressive war in Ukraine. He's always felt a very keen affinity towards European Union and towards the US. And I think it's very much related to his experiences both studying in the European Union and in the US. Tell us about how he became Trump's go-to person, how they became allies. Trump, for whatever reason, likes Finland, which is good for us in this security environment that we're living in. He thinks that we take care of our forests.

7:47He often mentions this on US TV when, for example, there are news about wildfires in California or whatnot. He's been in Helsinki. He met with Putin in Helsinki in 2018, hosted by our then president, Nyniste. So he knows about our strong defense forces, our conscription army and whatnot. So I think Trump feels that we take care of our security. So he doesn't feel like Finland has ever been a free rider in its relationship with Europe. And also Finnish diplomats actually kept in touch with Trump even before he came back to power. So we know that Stubb's prowess at golf has helped him become friends with Donald Trump.

8:26But tell us how it happened. Well, it's quite a story. he was meeting with Senator Lindsey Graham who's from South Carolina is a friend of Finland he's been here very often he also has been keeping up with Alexander Stoop it was actually Lindsey Graham who suggested Trump and Stoop should get together to play a round of golf and what ended up happening is that they played a long round of golf one weekend in Florida maybe it was seven hours or so they spoke about the war in Ukraine they spoke about our experiences with Russia Stoop said afterwards that he told Trump that Russia cannot be trusted shared some of our experiences and they also had a very long lunch after that so plenty of time to connect both on a professional level on these key points that Finland wanted to get across but also on more personal topics like their love for the sport Now, since then, they've talked a lot, haven't they?

9:32How has their relationship developed since that first meeting? I think Stup has probably multiple roles. Traditionally, Finnish presidents have sought to build a bridge between Russia and the Soviet Union and their leaders, and we have acted as the host nations. And now actually, the one end of the bridge has moved from Moscow to Kiev. So he's trying to also bridge the gap there between Trump and Zelensky, among with other European leaders. But their personal relationship, I think it's very active. It's more active than we hear about in media or what they share publicly. They talk or text weekly, sometimes, if not more often daily.

10:17I don't think Stup would have been at the White House in that meeting between Zelensky and the European leaders and Trump if there wouldn't be a strong and very active bilateral relationship there. Tell us how unusual it is for a president of a country the size of Finland to be there, to be in the room like that. It's very unusual. We're a small country of 5.6 million people. We are maybe a medium-sized country within NATO due to the size of our army and the strength of our defence forces, but still a country of limited influence. And we're not used to being at the center of international diplomacy at this level, at the very core of it.

11:01Of course, Donald Trump sees himself as a bit of a peacemaker in conflict, some of which with more success than others. Is there any reason to think they've bonded over that, that that's something they've talked about? Definitely peace as a topic is close to both of their hearts. Obviously, Trump talks a lot, not only about winning the Nobel Peace Prize or settling all these different conflicts around the world. So it could be that this friendship between them could actually turn into a force for peace. Well, we can only hope and definitely Stup and the European leaders are trying to push Trump to increase pressure on Putin and Russia to end the war in Ukraine.

11:43And I think the game that we are playing here is that if the peace process collapses for whatever reason, the plane will be put on Russia and that would end up in more pressure for Russia and eventually into an actual peace process and a lasting peace for Ukraine. Thanks, Joel. So that's his story as seen in Finland. But how about on the international stage? Jonas Pirello-Plesner worked in the Danish embassy in Washington during Trump's first presidency, leading the foreign policy department and knows what it takes for foreign leaders to influence Trump. Jonas, Stubb has been on your radar for quite a while, hasn't he?

12:19Not just through politics, but through Ironman competitions, which are basically these hardcore triathlons. Alexander Stubb is this sort of Nordic wonder man that can do everything. So I mostly actually knew about his triathlons, his Ironman. So he's a very accomplished Ironman. and have done amazing times. I used to track him on Strava. I think now that he's in his presidential position, he's kind of closed his Strava so not everybody can see where he's doing his run and where he's doing his different things. But I would see him when he was used to based in Italy and be cycling around Italian Tuscan mountains.

12:54But then he also has this golfer past and that of course has kind of made him a little bit a Trump whisperer or at least a Trump confidant. And he was part of this meeting together with President Zelensky in the White House, together with the other kind of big European nations that were a part of this. And you could say Finland, Alexander Stubb, was the only one from a smaller European nation. As you say, Stubb is now seen as his favourite of Trump, internationally at least. Is that how he sees it? Does he make a big deal of their friendship? I don't think we should overplay it as well either.

13:27And I think Stubb is also really very careful about this when he does interviews. he's very careful about not sort of making him seem kind of more than he is. We've also seen over the years, both inside the White House and with other foreign leaders, that then Trump's like somebody and then suddenly he doesn't like them. Like with Macron, there's been the French president, he's falling in and out. Oh, I listened to Macron. And other times this guy is kind of almost out to cheat me. And that same goes for Trump's personnel inside the White House, where people you would think are his really close confidence, then suddenly they lose out and they're out.

14:03So I think that's why they're also really careful how to sort of manage a mercurial Trump that they don't get on the wrong side of him. And Stubb so far has really managed that. Stubb has been very clear that he's told Trump not to trust Putin. That's his experience from a country that has an 800-mile border with Russia. Do we know whether Trump listens? Does it make a difference? Right now it looks, you know, from a European point of view, semi and from Ukrainian positive in the sense that when Trump talked after this meeting with Zelensky, with the European leaders, including Stubb, he talked again to Putin.

14:40It was clearly kind of to convey some messages that they had agreed to and really to put kind of the pressure on Russia. And also, you know, suddenly it was on the table, the question of American security guarantees for Ukraine, which is something we hadn't really heard Trump speak too much of before. Or that looks sort of fairly positive. And I think, you know, Stubb was a good part of that European diplomatic bodyguards that came with Zelensky and tried to sort of keep this on track, keep this on message. So, so far, so good. I thought it was fascinating, actually, earlier this month when European leaders put together this joint statement, basically warning Trump not to give away parts of Ukraine.

15:20and it was very punchy. And afterwards, it was not just that Stubb was in the room with the G7 countries, but that he was the one who called Trump afterwards to tell him what they'd decided. Yeah, that shows that they know. And it also shows, I think, very positively that Europe plays sort of in the same court, that leaders right now can put aside their egos and say, who has the most access right now to Trump? And if it's stopped, let's use that because we all have an interest that Ukraine is not presented with a really bad deal, something that would entice Putin to be much more aggressive in the rest of Europe.

15:56So in that sense, it's really high stakes for us. You could say it matters. So whoever we have that has those, the right chemistry at the moment with Trump, and right now it's Alexander Stubb. Denmark, of course, is another small country. How do small countries see Stubb's influence with Trump? Are they a bit jealous? A little bit of jealousy, but I think overall the same as I said about the UK, that if it works through stop, let's use it. It's in all of Europe's interest. But I did sort of just go through both Danish and Swedish press, and I did find at least one article in each. Why is Mette Freykson, the Danish prime minister, because she's also the EU president at the moment, so looked at protocol and everything.

16:41It could have been more likely to be her. And the same in Sweden with Ulf Christensen, their prime minister. But I again think overall the situation is so serious and with the war going on in Ukraine. So it's not really about egos, but about who can best help kind of convince American president to stay on Ukraine's side and not be sort of lured by anything Putin says that tries to sort of present his sort of very distorted view of this war in Ukraine. That's it from The Daily this week. Make sure to keep up to date with the latest profiles and all our content by scrolling through the Sky News Daily podcast feed.

17:42behind each of them, you will see how together they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now. Just search for it on your podcast app and follow.