Trump and Starmer quizzed on Epstein

11:26Harriet Harman:Well, let's not talk about the process. What do you think, Harriet? Because you know Peter better than anyone else on this pod. If he's not fit to be the UK ambassador to the US, is he fit to sit in Parliament? Is he fit to sit in the Lords? Do you want him back?

11:36Ruth Davidson:I think there should be a process, but actually I don't think he enhances the reputation of the House of Lords. I think he would damage it. And I think he's got a talent for reinventing himself and reappearing after scandals. But I think this time that's got to be it.

11:51Mark Stone:OK, there you go.

11:53Harriet Harman:In terms of just clearing up, Mark, you were absolutely right about all of the times that he has met with the president. We've been doing a bit of fact-checking and I think we can prove that the pair of them have met and that actually the president does know who he is. Let's have a listen. In my view, as the prime minister has said, it just shows what two countries who trust each other, who are confident in each other and are familiar with each other, can do not just for ourselves, but for those in the rest of the world who need to benefit from a bigger and better international trading system.

12:28Harriet Harman:Thank you very much. It was beautifully stated. What a beautiful accent. I'd like to have that accent. My mother would be proud.

12:36Ruth Davidson:Well, President Trump then said he didn't know him, but he clearly does know him. So it's even more of an excruciating moment for Peter Mandelson.

12:44Harriet Harman:In terms of the questions that were being asked of Trump and particularly from the travelling American press corps, Mark, you know, I was struck by just how internationalist it was. I mean, this was all foreign policy that the president was being asked to cover here.

12:58Beth Rigby:It was. But what was also striking is who he took the questions from. His first question, very interestingly, was for GB News, not for an American outlet, but for GB News. That's telling and, you know, reflective, I think, of how close GB News has come to the presidency. The second question was Brian Glenn. Brian Glenn is the suit man, the man who asked Zelensky why he wasn't wearing a suit in the Oval Office.

13:24Harriet Harman:And then when Zelensky came back, he said, Brian, you're in the same suit as me. At least I've changed.

13:29Beth Rigby:Exactly. So Brian Glenn is an American reporter who works for a very, very pro-Trump outlet. I've got to know Brian very well over the past, I don't know, six, eight months or so. But he always gets a first question, first or second question from Trump. And honestly, I'll be blunt and I say it to his face as well. His questions are not really questions. They're more statements of how brilliant the Trump administration is doing. And then the third question was from Fox News. So they were not particularly hard questions, any of them. But you're right. It was a focus more on foreign policy than it was on the moment of the day, the pomp, the circumstance and the tech deals.

14:07Ruth Davidson:But I think for all that the red carpet was rolled out and, you know, there's been lots of suggestions that, you know, that Keir Starmer has been kind of bending the knee to Trump. Actually, what happened over this summit and the state visit is Keir Starmer has done incredibly well. He hasn't moved an inch from his position on Ukraine and on Putin. Playing the long game.

14:31Harriet Harman:And Beth, you said on Sky, I saw in your kind of up some of it, you were saying that the press conference, it was people that when they were disagreeing, they were disagreeing agreeably. And I thought, particularly as I watched a lot of the questions on Gaza and Israel, it was clear the prime minister and the president were coming from different backgrounds, different positions and policy positions on it. But I did think that actually, you know, there is no domestic harm to Starmer to have him stand next to the president and say something different and stick to his guns on it.

15:00Mark Stone:Yes.

15:01Harriet Harman:Particularly to a domestic Labour supporting audience.

15:04Mark Stone:The burning question I actually had was on Gaza, what Trump was going to do. Was he going to press Prime Minister Netanyahu? There's some reports in the US media today saying that he's privately saying how frustrated he is with the Israeli prime minister behind closed doors. But you saw in his responses, and he was asked a couple of times, he just won't go there publicly. So he flips it to Hamas and the hostages. and what I think was good for Starmer was you know Starmer clearly isn't gonna do much on Palestinian statehood until Trump has left that much is obvious but it was clear that he had made his case he is gonna recognize the Palestine state and Trump was clear there he said we don't agree with this it's one area we disagree and I'm okay with that yeah and that was that's the point you see all of those things you're like that's the blow up that's the blow up and actually what was really interesting about all of this is i don't know whether it's because starmer has found a way to work with trump it might be because trump really has enjoyed the state visit and he doesn't want to cast a shadow over it whatever reasons and it's probably a bit of both um he managed to kind of in that moment be his own man and be his own prime minister and not piss donald Trump off, which is no easy feat, is it Mark?

16:26Beth Rigby:It's almost as if they got to a position, they've got to a position in their relationship now, where few people are at with Trump, incidentally, where they can disagree without there being consequences from the Americans. He's managed to lay on enough over the course of the past few days that their relationship is close enough that they're able to do that. I think that's a kind of win, isn't it, for Starna?

16:46Mark Stone:It is, but I would still say the bigger issue here, and this is, you know, the only leader that can unlock Netanyahu is President Trump. And for whatever reason at the moment, he is not doing that. And until he does, the idea of Israel pulling back seems very distant. And as all of that goes on, this humanitarian crisis is building in Gaza. There are reports about a wide set famine really setting in. And it's just heartbreaking to see it, right?

17:19Harriet Harman:And Mark, on the other big conflict in the world that was talked about today on Ukraine and Russia.

17:27Beth Rigby:The phrase was Putin has let me down.

17:29Harriet Harman:We've solved seven wars, seven wars, wars that were unsolvable, wars that couldn't be negotiated or done. We've done the US has done seven of them. The one that I thought would be easiest would be because of my relationship with President Putin. but he's let me down. He's really let me down.

17:51Beth Rigby:That was a news line for sure. But honestly, what's he going to say next week? He's going to have a call with Putin. Putin's going to say something, buy himself more time and Trump will be back the other way. So hard to know really. But Beth, your question to both of them was essentially the one that Vladimir Zelensky posed to Yalda Hakim when she interviewed him earlier this week.

18:14Mark Stone:you know now's the time to help us i had a section on ukraine in my my question bank and when trump said putin's let me down that really caught my attention because i thought he's been apologizing for putin he's saying he can do business with putin and then he stood up there and said he said it's been much harder i thought i could do business with putin and he's he's let me down and i thought actually is this is this a moment perhaps where trump finally begins to turn the screws on on Putin is he going to do it and so that's why I pivoted to that I think what he's now doing

18:50Beth Rigby:is he's got an excuse to blame someone else he's now saying you guys the in Europe I've just discovered you're still spending loads of money buying Russian oil what the heck's all that about yeah stop doing that and until you stop doing that I'm not going to help out and as we know people like the Germans and others are far too reliant on Russian oil to stop buying it overnight so that's a delaying tactic. Trump and Putin are both essentially delaying.

19:15Mark Stone:You know there were two questions that it was was it a mistake to invite him to Alaska? Did you regret that? And he said no okay that was interesting. He's like no I still think it was worth getting into the table but then when it came to the matter of actually are you going to impose these sanctions that the Europeans are pressing for you to do he then retrenched because actually he does have it in his power to turn the screw on Putin and he retrenched and he used that as a way of reiterating what he'd said on Truth Social as Mark was saying about actually it's on NATO allies and actually I asked the Prime Minister that about whether he agreed with Trump on that and he seized upon that actually to pivot away from actually answer any questions on what he's actually going to do about it and I tried to shout at him as he was leaving like what about President Putin and off he went so So I think for the Europeans, I would imagine that there's a feeling of weariness, really, that they're still, despite the efforts of maybe King Charles behind closed doors or Keir Starmer behind closed doors, how much are they really moving Trump, you know?

20:23Harriet Harman:And how much they were talking about peace, the Second World War standing together. I mean, we had a day of pageantry on Wednesday and then we went to a day of pure politics on the Thursday. And there's so much from that press conference to chew over. But what you were saying, Mark, about the way in which Trump says something and pivots and then says something and pivots is something that struck a chord with one of our listeners. We're about to go to an ad break, but I just wanted to read this because it's from one of our listeners, Justin, who messaged to say, Trump is here to be lauded and he really does look like a kid at a theme park.

20:53Harriet Harman:Whether Starmer comes away with anything substantive is in doubt. Also, Trump is so fickle that he is Britain's great friend in the moment. But in the weeks and months to come, that sentiment could be very different. So there's already just, you know, less than a year into a second presidency. There's the sense that, yeah, he'll sign any old bit of paper, but will he actually honour any agreements that he signs? And I think there's, you know, the proof of the pudding is kind of in the eating on that one. And that's, again, what both of you have been saying.

21:23Beth Rigby:There was a funny moment when he signed the deal today. If you'd asked me a week ago at the state visit, are they actually going to sign anything? I'd have probably said no, but clearly they did. they signed a massive tech deal. But as he signed it, he looked up and said to his commerce secretary, Howard, should I sign this? Then to his treasury secretary, Scott, it's your fault if it's a bad deal. It gives you a sort of sense that he doesn't really know what he's signing. Someone's told him to sign this. It sounds good. The numbers are big. There's loads of business guys with loads of dosh in the room.

21:53Beth Rigby:He's a happy man. And by the way, it's a palace as well. Great.

21:56Mark Stone:Just from another source in government, you know, in terms of the prime minister need in this moment, This is someone that knows him very well. They say he spent the past two weeks having to clear up for others. Today, he got to remind people what he is in it for and what he's good at. Point one. And in terms of the investment, this is a this government source saying it's massive and it is real money. It's not promises of investment. It's actual investment. And if you think about what we've talked about in this pod the whole time about trying to reboot the economy and the struggles they're having and the economic difficulties they're in.

22:31Mark Stone:I mean, I think we should give it a moment to say they've actually secured a lot of inward investment for both big tech, computing, infrastructure and nuclear. And that is what they promised they would do. So I think after a torrid couple of weeks, they actually have a little bit of license here, don't they, to feel, you know, maybe even give themselves a tiny pat on the back.

23:00Ruth Davidson:How does a banana trigger a CIA-backed coup? Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity?

23:12Beth Rigby:I'm Ed Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world-shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow.

23:34Mark Stone:Now we said we should get into Jimmy Kimmel's big American talk show being pulled off air after his comments about Charlie Kirk. It got talked about in the press conference and even if you've never watched him, this is a story worth knowing about because it matters about freedom of speech in the US. It's a massive moment here. Mark, can you explain it for us?

23:55Beth Rigby:Yeah, well, Jimmy Kimmel, many, many listeners, viewers will have heard of him. They know exactly who he is. Some may not. He's massive, absolutely massive, late night talk show host, comedian on ABC. And his show has a sort of a familiar theme and it is the Trump basher. I mean, there's no doubt about that. He's not a fan of Donald Trump. And he does like this monologue at the beginning. and the monologue which has got him cancelled was about MAGA's response to the death of Charlie Kirk and he said that the MAGA gang, as he called them, were trying to score political points from Kirk's murder.

24:32Beth Rigby:He said that they were quick to blame the left before much was known about the shooter's motives and he effectively said that he sort of called into question whether the shooter, whether the gunman was actually from the liberal left. That clearly sent the right in America into a tailspin. What was really interesting, that America's version of Ofcom got involved, basically said, we're looking at maybe suing Kimmel for these comments. Guess what? Ofcom in America, it's not independent. And the boss of Ofcom is a Trump appointee. So no wonder he was upset. The other side of politics, clearly they are very angry.

25:11Beth Rigby:California Governor Gavin Newsom posting on X that the GOP, the Republican Party, does not believe in free speech. They are censoring you in real time. This is a massive story in America. It was even mentioned in Chequers behind us today. I don't know what you guys think.

25:26Ruth Davidson:I think one of the things that was awful about what Kimmel said is he accused Trump of crying crocodile tears over Charlie Kirk and just weaponizing it, which I just think is completely be wrong. And the thing is that free speech doesn't work as a partisan issue. You've got to defend your right to free speech, but you've also got to defend the right of free speech of people that you find absolutely abhorrent. And there's no point everyone branding each other hypocrites when it comes to free speech. I mean, obviously you've got to carve out a legitimate position which bans incitement to violence, incitement to racial hatred, supporting terrorism or encouraging public disorder.

26:07Ruth Davidson:But otherwise, you've got to defend everyone's right to free speech. And ironically, that's what Charlie Kirk was actually doing when he was tragically shot down. And I'm not going to say, but he was shot, which is awful, but I don't agree with his views. I think you've just got to be full on. It was terrible that he was shot. He's a debater that believes in free speech, that was absolutely terrible. And at some point, people from all sides have got to get together and support free speech, not weaponise it, not use it as a stick to beat each other, not call each other hypocrites, but all recognise we all must support free speech.

26:48Ruth Davidson:Otherwise, you know, our democracies are massively undermined. And I think what Jimmy Kimmel said was absolutely awful.

26:56Mark Stone:Can I ask you a question, Mark? because I was reading some analysis opinion in the US press today about it. And they're saying the issue with Trump is he says he supports free speech, but actually what he supports is favoured speech. And what he actually supports is speech that he agrees with. And actually it's quite chilling. And even when you were talking about the US press call there and how he calls journalists that one of them you were saying will just make a statement about the brilliance of Trump. I mean, this is going very deep into the structures in America, right?

27:30Beth Rigby:Last night when I ended the day and it was all the sort of solemnity and pomp of yesterday at Windsor and Trump sort of lording it around Windsor. And I just thought, because I'd just come over from America. I mean, it is very on edge over there after the murder of Charlie Kirk. The country is, I mean, I know everyone always says America's always been divided. It feels so bitterly divided at the moment. There are ICE agents on the streets pulling people off the streets if they've got a brown skin. There is all this stuff over free speech that the National Guard are on the streets. It does feel like a country on edge.

28:03Beth Rigby:And yet all that was forgotten yesterday. And clearly, you know, that's not particularly helpful for Keir Starmer at all. He doesn't. That's like la la la noise. I'm just dealing with my trade deal here.

28:14Ruth Davidson:Well, it's never going to get solved by people adding up the victims on both sides. You know, the terrible killing of representatives, democratically elected representatives in Minnesota, the absolute awful assault on Nancy Pelosi's husband, now the killing of Charlie Kirk. I mean, you can't establish righteousness by virtue of which side you're on. You've got to all be on the side of free speech and supporting each other's free speech.

28:41Mark Stone:I think the matter of free speech is something that we're going to be coming back to, not least because of the rally in London over the weekend in which Elon Musk beamed himself in and used language that the UK government certainly thought was crossing the boundaries. I'm surprised that didn't come up in the news conference, actually.

29:02Beth Rigby:Anyway, speaking of free speech, you ladies don't, free flowing speech, you don't stop.

29:07Harriet Harman:You know, and we have to stop, actually. That's a really good opening for us to say that is all we have time for this week.

29:13Ruth Davidson:Men telling me to stop talking the bloody story of my life. It's such a terrible trope, men saying that women speak all the time because research has shown that actually... Stop it now, Mark! Oh, dear. What have I done? The research has shown that men speak much more than women, but men always say women speak more than them. Well, Harriet, if you're going to use fact and logic,

29:35Harriet Harman:how on earth is Mark going to argue with you? We are going to stop there. Everybody, swish, swish. I'll start getting Scottish on you. That is all that we've got time for. Beth, you've got some television to do. You've got to speak to the nation. We are going to end our special relationship here. Our reciprocal agreement has run out. Mark, thank you so, so much for joining us. And thank you for letting us come and join you.

29:57Beth Rigby:If you are new to Trump 100, then it's lots of fun. We are on Spotify, YouTube, all that stuff. and we have an email address trump100 at sky.uk me, James, Martha, the US correspondent at Sky News follow us all, come and find us, come and listen stone underscore sky news is me on Twitter and Instagram

30:16Mark Stone:and also you can email us questions to electoral dysfunction at sky.uk and I hope you Trump 100ers might come and join us again thank you, it's been fun

30:28Harriet Harman:and now we've got all of the admin out of the way all the ways you can get in touch shall we say goodbye? goodbye bye bye bye bye