Why did the Home Office pay Hadush Kebatu £500 to leave the country?

0:00How does a banana trigger a CIA-backed coup? Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity? I'm Ed Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world-shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow. Hours after being deported to Ethiopia, the migrant sex offender Hadish Kabat, who spoke to Sky News, alleging that he tried to hand himself in to police, but they didn't arrest him.

0:41I'm Gareth Barlow with the Sky News Daily. How does a banana trigger a CIA-backed coup? Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity? I'm Ed Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world-shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow.

1:17The manhunt for Haddish Kabatoo after he was released from prison by accident lasted for two whole days, but he says he could have been taken into custody much sooner. On Saturday, I get a police. Look here. Please, I am wanted man. I arrested. I will give you my hand. Please help him. Where is police station? He ignored me. Well, the Home Secretary, Shabana Mahmood, had been delighted to see him finally deported, saying she had pulled every lever to get him on the plane, but the shine could be coming off as more details come out, including the fact he was paid£500 to leave. Facts that will anger many, especially his victims who have already said his mistaken release caused them stress and anxiety.

1:56Our news correspondent Ashna Hurnag is in Epping today and is here to talk about how Kabatu is still causing problems for the government months on from his arrest. You're in Epping, it's a grey, wet, rainy October day, but this story goes back months and months, all the way back to the summer. What is Epping like now in the autumn?

2:14Hadush Kebatu:I suppose the scene of all of this, which became a beacon of such unrest, was the Bell Hotel, where Kabartu had been a resident up until the point that he had been arrested. And the Bell Hotel now is a bit of a shell of itself. There are barricades all around it. All of the windows have kind of got this sheen over them you can't see inside. There's barely anyone there. This morning, a postman turned up to deliver a parcel to those who had been in the hotel. Clearly he hadn't changed their address because the hotel has not been open for a very very long time and he just had one sort of lowly security guard popping out to collect this parcel but other than that it's incredibly derelict and then on some of the remaining signage you've got a spray painted almost St George's flag and it's so interesting how that is what the council wanted for so long that's what the people who were at those protests in Epping wanted for so long and now it has just completely become a shell of itself and of course it all stemmed from Kabartu's arrest, going on to being charged, to then being convicted.

3:19And then this morning, the people of Epping, but people across the UK waking up to the news that not only had he got on that flight at Heathrow, but he'd landed in Addis Ababa.

3:29Hadush Kebatu:Yeah, and the host actually, Shibana Mahmood, saying that she'd done everything she could, she'd moved mountains essentially, to try and get that deportation underway. It's worth remembering, it was only in June he boarded a small boat to come over to the UK, and the Bell Hotel in Epping was his first point of residence in the UK. And then it was only days later, wasn't it, in which he was arrested and then subsequently charged with sexually assaulting a young 14-year-old girl, but also a woman as well. And yes, to find out that he'd been deported after, of course, the chaos at the weekend. It's hard to think of a more damaging story, certainly for the government through the lens of migration, but also the fact that he'd been mistakenly released from Chelmsford Prison, a distressing twist for both of Kabartu's victims.

4:17Hadush Kebatu:You had to find out both of them via reporters and not via the police and the kind of normal channel of communication that he was essentially on the run. Now, back in Ethiopia and following his deportation, Sky News has spoken to Hadish Kabatoo. It's worth remembering at this point that he is a convicted sex offender. The courts consider him a liar as well. But this is him in his own words. At that time, I am waiting more than three hours. Already the time has passed. Who can be responsible for me? Where is home office? Where is the immigrant? I will tell them. But also all of the experts are, they are ignored me.

4:56Somebody, they are passed. Where is the station? Where is the train station? someone helped me. I will take the ticket, one eight pound. So that was Hadish Kabatoo referring to those couple of hours after being released from prison. He kind of bumbled about, some might say, and then eventually getting, he says, help from a stranger who helped him get a ticket to London. And I'm sure these details will really be so devastating to the individuals and the families involved, but also to the wider community.

5:34Hadush Kebatu:Yeah, of course. I mean, the only time we've heard Kabatu speak in terms of a video element that's been, or an audio element that's been released to the public, has been through the body cam footage from Messick's police upon the moment of arrest. So hearing his voice for the first time, that's certainly something we've not really heard before. I think lots of people will be shocked by listening to that today. And of course, this comes only days after he had been accidentally released from prison when he was expecting to be picked up by immigration officials but after being released from a chance from prison he's then left his own devices almost bumbling around as you say Gareth takes you know almost an hour for the prison officials to realise what's happened to then alert the police but he's on the run for a fair amount of time it's not until Sunday morning that he gets picked up in the Finsbury Park area of London.

6:23All of that considered that early release, that accidental early release, that two-day manhunt, multiple police forces, that arrest at 8.30 in the morning in Finsbury Park on Sunday, Harish Kabati, speaking to Sky News, claims that could have all been brought to an end even sooner. He says he approached a police officer and asked to be arrested. On the morning Saturday, I get a police. Look here. Police, I am wanted man. I arrested. I I will give you my hand. Please help him. Where is the police station? He ignored me. He drove. I am not unknown. The police station, where is the place? I am not going to eat, but also I get the police.

7:04I will give you my hand. Please help me. Where is the police station? Take me. I am wanted. You know me. My image. My name is Hadish Kouatu. I am National of Ethiopia. Please, I want the mistake released from Tramsford Prison. Please help me. Ashna, this will be heard by that 14-year-old's parents, by that woman who tried to intervene and protect those girls. And if that is proven to be the case, it's going to be, again, we've said it earlier in this podcast, devastating.

7:38Hadush Kebatu:The Metropolitan Police, in response to us telling them about Kabartu's allegations, they told us they're not aware of any evidence to support the claims that he had approached officers on that Saturday morning. Of course, this is his words, but the police say they've seen no such evidence of that happening. I mean, there was disbelief at the sheer incompetency of prison officials by the family of Schoolgirl, who was the victim, the key victim in Kabartu's case. Her family over the weekend had said after he'd been mistakenly released, they felt massively let down and infuriated by the accidental release from Chelmsford Prison.

8:17Hadush Kebatu:They read out a statement via one of Epping Forest councillors who had said that Kabartu being released from prison on the Friday was unbelievably irresponsible. They are understandably going to be furious by hearing that he has spoken. Of course, he's been found guilty by the British courts and he is a registered sex offender and he will not be allowed to come back to the UK or ever return to the UK. But there will be that kind of bitter taste, no doubt, that he has spoken. Well, the convicted sex offender was repeatedly questioned on his crimes, but Sky News has chosen not to broadcast that part of the interview.

8:56That was Ashna Hurnag in Epping. More from her in a few moments' time. But let's focus in on that£500, the deportation and all of the mechanics around it. Let's bring in Danny Shaw, crime and policing commentator and former Labour Home Affairs advisor. I think the£500 that was given to Hadash Kabatou was to make it easier for him to be removed, in essence. And I think the calculation was that it would save the taxpayer money at the end of the day. It appears to be the case that you had someone who was kicking up a fuss or not going very easily onto the plane and was potentially going to make life difficult, whether that would be in terms of refusing to board the plane or whether that would be instructing lawyers to bring some kind of legal claim.

9:49We don't have the details yet. And so£500 is a discretionary amount that I understand immigration and border officials are allowed to give to people who are deported. I mean, it is not unusual for people who are removed from the UK to be given cash to smooth the process and to act as an incentive. It strikes me, though, it's a slightly tricky sell for the authorities because they say it will save money, but they can never obviously put a figure on it because they don't know what it truly ultimately would have saved. And from a societal point of view, you've got a convicted sex offender who is being forcibly removed, but is still doing so with a bit of a sweetener.

10:30The optics are pretty terrible. And let's be honest, the whole case has been disastrous for the government from start to finish. I completely understand the optics look terrible from start to finish about this case. But the reality is actually this£500 is probably the, you know, it's probably going to save the taxpayer money. and it's maybe one of the reasons why we are now seeing returns of foreign national offenders and other people who don't have visas to remain in the UK are going up. I mean the latest figures were that voluntary returns 26 ,000 the last 12 monthly figures we have up 13 % year on year.

11:099 ,000 of those were assisted by the Home Office and there may well have been some payment involved but at least those people are being removed because they have no right to be in the UK. The other element of the deportation that I was interested by was the mechanics of it. Five Home Office employees were on that flight to escort one person out of the country. Is that fairly typical? And whilst he's on that plane, is he in handcuffs? It's normal for a foreign national offender to be escorted onto the plane and to have a number of officers there. It may be three or four or five. I think it would depend on the risk that the individual was assessed to pose because he's so high profile, because he's a sex offender.

11:51That probably necessitated more people than perhaps with someone who was a fraudster who was going willingly and wasn't in the headlines. The question of handcuffs and so on, I think, is an operational decision that's made on a case by case basis. You know, with some people, probably not necessary. With others, it probably is. But this is why the process is difficult and costly, because these people don't want to go. They're not looking forward to going back to a country that they try to escape from or leave. Harush Kabartu is but one name. This is but one story. And we heard barbs across the benches in the Commons this week between the Justice Secretary and the Shadow Justice Secretary.

12:39And the central tenet of the discussion was the fact that there are, unfortunately, multiple accidental or incorrect releases. How bad is the situation in that regard? There are about five prisoners released in error every week across jails in England and Wales. And that number has doubled in a year. Used to be about one a week. Now it's five a week. And that's obviously too many. you know you can't eliminate human error entirely from the process so you know there's always probably going to be some cases where it happens but the number's far too high which is why david lamby the justice secretary has has ordered an urgent review by damien owens former senior police officer and and i hope and expect that that review will get to the bottom of what happened with kebatu and also come up with some recommendations to ensure that this doesn't happen again certainly on nothing like the scale that we're seeing it may be because you have a lot of inexperienced staff who are very overstretched it may be because the process of sentencing and release has become more complex with different bits of legislation some people being released at the 50 percent mark some at the 40 percent mark some with tags some without tags some with other restrictions on their movements such as non-molestation orders and so on so all of those things are part of the mix.

14:03But it can't be beyond the wit of the prison system to organise a process whereby the 1 ,000 prisoners who are released from jails every week are released at the right time with the right measures in place. This saga has elicited conversation about whether the Home Office is fit for purpose, whether it's broken. I'm interested from your perspective, of somebody who's objectively analysed and watched its workings over the course of many years. What is your assessment of the Home Office today? There are many thousands of brilliant and dedicated civil servants working at the Home Office. But as a department, I think it's too big.

14:43It's got 57 ,000 staff. It's got a budget of something like£28 billion, I think, it spent in the last financial year. and I think it's too big for one Secretary of State to have their eyes across all the different arms of that department. I'm not a believer in structural reform at Whitehall. I think it's really a last resort. I don't believe you just create different departments and move things around. It's going to make things better. But I do believe now that the time has come to split the Home Office into two and to create one department for policing, crime and security and another department for immigration, asylum and borders, with a secretary of state for each sitting at the cabinet table and with the structure of civil servants below that.

15:32And that will enable in the fields of immigration, asylum and borders, one cabinet minister to be absolutely focused on that area and for a clear chain of command. And I think the time has come to do that. Danny, thank you so much. Final thought back to Ashna, who's been in Epping today. And Ashna, whilst Haddish Kabatu is no longer in Epping, is no longer in the UK, certainly for the people in Epping where you are, the frustrations, I'm sure, haven't gone away.

16:01Hadush Kebatu:Even though this is the case that's really been focused on one individual and his victims or the survivors, there are bigger debates at play. Of course, this plays directly into the migration debate. We know there are ongoing legal challenges regarding the use of the Bell Hotel in Epping. only this morning Dr Neil Hudson who is a conservative MP for Epping Forest has said whilst he is really relieved that Kabatu has been removed in this way he was quoted as saying this hasn't gone away as an issue for the people of Epping and he made reference to the fact it's not nice to see Epping Forest in this way on the news top story all the time it's a constant reminder of something that was quite difficult for them to deal with over the summer, but also has been an ongoing difficult court challenge with regards to the use of the hotel, but also for the families of those that were impacted by Kabartu's actions and his behaviour.

16:54Hadush Kebatu:There are other asylum hotels in this area and there will be continued frustration. That hasn't gone away. That was Ashna Hernag in Epping. When approached by Sky News, the Ministry of Justice pointed to a statement made by Deputy Prime Minister David Lammy upon Kabartu's deportation. He said the following, Kabatu has been returned to Ethiopia where he belongs. I'm grateful to Home Office colleagues for acting swiftly to secure his deportation. I've been clear from the outset that a mistake of this nature is unacceptable and we must get to the bottom of what happened. I have established an independent investigation chaired by Dame Lynn Owens into last Friday's events to get the public the answers they rightly deserve.

17:34And we have introduced the strictest checks ever seen in our prison system to stop similar unacceptable errors in the future. Responding to Kabarty's claims, the Metropolitan Police Service told Sky News, the Met is not aware of any evidence to support the claims that Kabarty approached officers on Saturday morning. The actions of officers who responded to the sighting of him on Sunday morning show how seriously they were taking the manhunt. Kabarty's actions on the morning of his arrest were more like those of someone trying to avoid officers, not trying to hand himself in. And Essex Police told Sky News, Our officers responded quickly to the reports of the sexual assaults committed in Epping and arrested Hajj Kibartu on the same day the offences were reported to us.

18:15Kibartu was then immediately remanded in custody, while officers acted diligently and professionally, securing charges and building a case which saw Kibartu convicted following the trial. Protecting women and girls is a priority for Essex Police, and our swift and thorough actions highlighted our commitment to this. Thanks so much for listening to the Sky News Daily. For more on this interview, do visit the Sky News website or app. You can also find plenty more online.

18:42How does a banana trigger a CIA-backed coup? Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity? I'm Ed Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world-shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow.