Why does BBC board’s Robbie Gibb keep getting criticised?

0:00Coming up, he's the broadcast journalist turned Conservative spin doctor who now sits on the BBC board. He's also been blamed for the resignations of the Director General and Head of News. So who is Robbie Gipp? How does a banana trigger a CIA-backed coup? Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity? I'm Ed Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world-shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow.

1:05and CEO of News Deborah Turness are already seeking other opportunities. So you might think that was the end of the matter. Not a chance, because in the wake of their departure, fingers have been pointed, unpointed, at Robbie Gibb. He's a former BBC employee who now sits on the BBC board. The accusation is that he was part of an inside job to bring them down. Mr Gibb's allies suggest he was bringing some much-needed balance to an institutionally biased broadcaster. So, who is Robbie Gibb? Let's get started with the media commentator and international investigations editor at Deadline, Jake Cantor.

1:43Jake, great to have you on the Sky News Daily. And look, plenty for us to discuss about Robbie Gibb's time at the BBC. But before he sat on the board, he did a variety of jobs, just provide us with a potted bio. Robbie Gibb is a vastly experienced journalist. He worked at the BBC for the best part of 25 years and held various senior roles within the newsroom during that period, including on shows like Newsnight and other political output. And then he sort of crisscrossed between journalism and the politics world itself. He perhaps most notably worked as the head of communications for Theresa May during her time in government as prime minister and has established extremely good connections within the Conservative Party, which ultimately led to him being appointed to the BBC board.

2:36He was done so in 2021 by Boris Johnson. And his deep connections with the Conservatives have obviously become a big talking point as part of his tenure at the BBC. Were those close ties to the Conservative Party not a barrier to Robbie Gibb taking a place as a non-executive director at the BBC? Absolutely not. There is no impediment to board members having political lives, political beliefs. And that is how it should be. The BBC board is made up of diversity of people, all with different views and highly credentialed people who are distinguished in their fields. And you could argue that Robbie Gibb, having both served as prominent BBC journalist and worked in the world of politics and Westminster, was well qualified to join the BBC board.

3:26I think something that's been lost in the noise around this issue over the last week or so is that this is not the first time that the BBC has had senior political figures involved in its governance and within the executive itself. You know, there was a very senior executive at the BBC called James Pennell, who was a front bench Labour minister for years before he went and worked for the BBC under Tony Hall, who was director general. OK, so I suppose then that holding certain political beliefs isn't an impediment to having a career at the BBC. But weren't there reports that alleged that ministers, including the prime minister, were in essence grooming Robbie Gibbs for this position?

4:11Yeah, so that's a slightly separate issue, I would say. The accusation was that Robbie Gibb could be installed on the BBC board and effectively be an agent for the government. That accusation has been made, particularly in left-wing media and by individuals such as Emily Maitlis, who used to work at the BBC. But, you know, political appointments have always been made to senior BBC governance positions. That is nothing new, particularly. Just explain, what then was Robbie Gibb's role on the board? What sort of influence could he exert in that position? As a BBC board member, it's a part-time role.

4:50The board meets regularly, at very least once a month, but usually more than that. And Robbie Gibb has also held a position on a subcommittee of the BBC board that oversees BBC editorial standards. And this is perhaps where some of the recent issues have emerged. So on that subcommittee, Robbie Gibbs sat alongside the Director General Tim Davey, the Chair Samir Shah and the now former Head of News Deborah Turnes. And they were tasked with examining BBC output, ensuring that it was meeting standards on impartiality and accuracy. and Robbie Gibb had very close ties or at least friendship with a man called David Grossman.

5:40And David Grossman is a policy advisor to the BBC and he has effectively been tasked with carrying out reviews of specific pieces of content. And he carried out a review of the BBC's coverage of the US election last year. And that is what really highlighted the issue with the edit on Panorama that has obviously exploded into this crisis for the BBC and indeed the threatened lawsuit from Donald Trump. Yeah, well, an apology has now been made to the White House and we'll see whether that will be enough to stop the lawyers getting involved. But just walk us through this week why Robbie Gibb's name has kept being mentioned alongside the, well, the very obvious mistake that was made by the BBC.

6:24So Robbie Gibb, as well as what I've just kind of sketched out in terms of his official involvement on the board and on the editorial standards committee. He has often been accused by BBC members of staff of perhaps overstepping his boundaries, of voicing his views directly with journalists or other content makers about their output, potentially accusing them of bias or perhaps not in upholding the BBC standards of impartiality. So he is not afraid to voice his mind when he wants to. Another issue that happened a few years ago was he allegedly interfered in the appointment of a senior news executive called Jess Brammer when she was potentially being appointed to help run the BBC News channel.

7:12And he voiced, according to the Financial Times, his objections to that appointment, although she was eventually installed in her position on BBC News. But it's an example of where he has potentially crossed over into editorial output on the BBC and had his say. And I think that has sort of created this caricature of Robert Gibb, that he is an agent for the Tories, that he is a villain of sorts, prepared to wade into editorial issues and accuse the BBC of bias, particularly when he believes that the corporation is kind of failing in its responsibility to reflect right wing positions clearly and effectively.

7:53and that has kind of erupted into allegations of a conservative coup in the last week that he has been seen as being overly involved in the Michael Prescott memo that sparked this crisis and has been a forceful presence on the board during discussions over the last two weeks about this issue. Two things can be true. Robbie Gibb can be a forceful presence who has very clear and strong views on BBC editorial output, and he is not afraid to voice those views. But I also think that he is one of 12 to 13 members on the BBC board. Every one of those members is, as I say, highly credentialed, very experienced individuals.

8:42And to suggest that they can be cowed or told what to think by just one other member of the board, I think feels unlikely to me. And I'm sure that there was a good level of opinion on the board about the mistake that was made with the Trump edit and some of the other issues referred to within the Michael Prescott. Jake, if we just conduct an experiment in which we accept, first of all, that Boris Johnson wanted Robbie Gibb in the BBC to shake things up a little bit. I mean, what's wrong with that? I mean, rightly or wrongly, The BBC is perceived to have a centre-left bias. I mean, it wasn't putting Gibb on the board exactly what the BBC might need.

9:21Well, I think it's really important to note that if you're a board member, you are not involved in the sort of day-to-day running of BBC's output. You know, Robbie Gibb may have been a former journalist at the BBC and he may have been particularly interested in BBC output, but he wasn't in the newsroom on a daily basis making decisions about what was going on air and how to frame certain stories. He may have looked at those stories and commented post-transmission, but he was not involved in the day-to-day output. And for that reason, I think the government is perfectly entitled to appoint who it wishes to the BBC board.

9:58It's literally in the BBC's charter that the government is able to do that. Robbie Gibbs serves as the board member for England. and in the same way that Boris Johnson was able to install him, once Robbie Gibb's term ends, the Labour government will be able to install their candidate on the BBC board and they may well look to appoint a political operative or someone with political history themselves. So it cuts both ways, I think. OK, but there are those, including the former editor-in-chief of The Guardian, Alan Rusbridger, who think it was unwise that Gibb was ever put on the board in the first place, that the BBC needs to be seen to be impartial and that putting someone like Gibb on the board put that at risk.

10:43Alan's obviously a distinguished editor himself and he's entitled to his opinion. I think, as I have explained, I think the BBC board, the way that it is drawn up, the way its principles and guidelines within the BBC charter enables politicians to install board members that they believe are in the best interest of the BBC And as I say, this is not a new issue. I'm not sure that Alan Rusbridger was complaining when James Purnell was the head of policy at the BBC for many years under Lord Hall. I mean, this wasn't that long ago. This was only five, six years ago that James Purnell was working for the BBC executive and he was a Labour frontbench minister.

11:25I didn't hear similar complaints about that from the left wing press during that time. What's your view then of the charge that the BBC is institutionally biased? I think the BBC has made mistakes with this Trump edit and some of the other areas of output mentioned. But I speak to lots of people at the BBC on a day-to-day basis. And it is full of hardworking, honest journalists who are pursuing truth and accuracy on a daily basis. and the vast, vast majority of them park their political beliefs at the door and come to work and take the BBC's responsibility to impartiality incredibly seriously.

12:14My thanks to Jake and, of course, to you for listening. Certainly been a busy week on the podcast. We've covered the state of the NHS and the ambitions of the health secretary, the sad tale of the suicide of a girl in care and the missed opportunities to prevent her death. and we asked whether the£22 billion black hole the Chancellor keeps mentioning actually exists. And if you want a little something for the weekend, you can watch the full chat with our economics editor, Ed Conway, over on the Sky News YouTube channel. The Daily is back Monday. Till then, do take care.

12:49How does a banana trigger a CIA-backed coup? Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity? I'm Ed Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world-shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow.