Why don't we know more about cold water shock?

0:02Sky News. The full story first.

0:11Britain's heatwave has turned deadly. And this is why.

0:25I'm Sam Coates from Sky News. And I'm Anne McElvoy from Politico. Downing Street drama, leadership battles and policy U-turns. We're on it before it breaks. We take you straight into the rooms where the real political conversations are happening. Smart Insight, clear analysis in your feeds by 7.45am. So you start your morning fully brief for the day ahead in British politics. Hit follow and listen to Politics at Sam & Anz wherever you get your podcasts.

1:00At least eight teenagers have died after getting into difficulty in open water during the UK's record-breaking heatwave. The tragedies have happened as people try to cool off in rivers, lakes and reservoirs, not realising how cold the water is. There are other risks linked to open water swimming, but at this time of year, water safety experts are warning specifically of the dangers of cold water shock. If you imagine getting into a cold shower and it takes your breath away, so quick gasp reflex, that's exactly what cold water shock is, but on a much bigger scale. Imagine your whole body hitting that water and your whole body having that gasp.

1:40I'm Mari Arora, and today we'll hear from a mum who turned devastating loss into a mission to save lives. Becky Ramsey has finally got water safety on the school curriculum after years and years of campaigning. Becky, thanks so much for joining us today. I just want us to kind of start off with what we've been talking about when it comes to young people, especially drowning in open water. You've got some lived experience when it comes to this. Can you start us off by just telling us what happened to your son? Yes, sadly, in July the 3rd, 2011, my son Dylan, who was age 13, He decided to go out with a couple of friends like a lot of teenagers do every single year.

2:28He went swimming in open water. It was a very blasé decision on the day. Dylan just made a decision with friends that they would go to this body of open water and go for a bit of fun to cool off. He was in the water for roughly 20 minutes and he then called for help and sadly lost his life. I couldn't really understand how that was possible when he was a young, fit, healthy lad I'm so sorry for your loss, Becky I want to delve into what you feel you could have known that might have helped you understand the dangers a little bit better He was a good swimmer It didn't make any sense whatsoever to me I couldn't process it So I had to look into the dangers and the risks associated with swimming in open water and I was just absolutely blown away.

3:20I actually couldn't believe it. The first thing I definitely should have known about is cold water shock. I had never heard the words cold water shock until my son passed away and many people would have never heard the words cold water shock prior to 15 years ago because it wasn't spoken about. Drownings were not in the news like they are now. I get people arguing with me all the time. In the 40s, we did it or in the 60s, we did it and it was all fine. Well, actually go and look at the statistics and you wasn't in the 40s between 1000 and 1500 people drowned. I'm going to admit, I had no idea that that was so dangerous.

3:55And I think I was lulled into a false sense of security because I can swim and my mum can't swim. So growing up, she was adamant that we could swim well because she was so worried that she wouldn't be able to help us if we got into difficulty. And so I just assume that if you're a good swimmer, you'll be fine. That is a really bad misconception. I do believe that at the moment we are just teaching our children enough to kill themselves because we're teaching them to swim, but we're not teaching them the water safety side of things. We're not teaching them the difference between a swimming pool and a body of open water.

4:28So we're not actually giving them any skill set. You know, it's a different skill set that you need for swimming in open water than what it is for swimming in a swimming pool. It's very, very different. So it was 15 years ago that you lost your son and you've founded this organisation doing it for Dylan so that you can raise awareness and try and educate people. So what are the dangers? I mean, the risks associated with swimming in open water are obviously cold water shock. That's one of the biggest problems what we're facing here. And it feels like I literally haven't stopped in 15 years trying to teach people the dangers in and around open water.

5:03I've spoken to over half a million people, but I have still only scratched the surface. Can you just talk me through exactly what is cold water shock? What does it do to your body? In the very simplest of terms, if you imagine getting into a cold shower and it takes your breath away, so quick gasp reflex, that's exactly what cold water shock is, but on a much bigger scale. Imagine your whole body hitting that water and your whole body having that gasp. You then intake water. You could panic. You could hyperventilate. You could have heart problems. All your blood is basically keeping your internal organs warm.

5:39so you're losing feelings in your hands and in your feet and then it'll be your legs and then your arms until eventually it will shut down your internal organs if you are not helped. What are some of the things that people could and should be doing to try and stay safe if they are going to be swimming in open water? Because actually some people might say, hold on a second, we still want to swim on our local lake or where we've been swimming for years and they might not want to necessarily not go there anymore. My first and foremost advice would be if you can possibly go to organized events or go to events that have got other swimmers that are going to be looking out for you if you can go to a lifeguarded area if you're going to not do those things and like you said just go to your local pond or whatever that you have been doing for many many years acclimatize before you get into the water make sure you put your feet in slowly just going up to your ankles and then get out then maybe going up to your knees and get out going up to your thighs and then get out splash the back of your neck splash your face with the cold water try and acclimatize your body to the water and the changing temperature from the hot to the cold especially if you've been doing something prior to getting into that water because your body temperature will also have an impact on the difference in the water temperature and how it affects your body if that makes sense.

6:53Yeah absolutely if people were for whatever reason to get themselves into difficulty into water what should they do? If it was you that was to get into trouble in open water my advice would be try and get your breathing under control and just don't panic you can get that mindset before you go near the water that if you was to fall in the water right the first thing I need to do is control my breathing and stay calm and that's going to help me then that would be a great idea obviously if you can float then do but that's not always easy some people don't have the ability to float some people struggle but that is the advice to try and get on your back and to float.

7:30However, I say the most important thing is to control your breathing and not panic because the more you panic, the quicker the blood is flowing around your body and the quicker basically you are losing your life. Your heart rate's slowing down all the time at this point. It's just a downward spiral. If you see somebody else getting into difficulty, you're not in the water, but you see them. Presumably your first instinct is to just jump in and try and help them but actually that might not necessarily be the case can you explain what you should do if you see somebody else in difficulty if you was to see somebody in trouble in open water then the advice would be to not get in to help them as much as you would want to and as much as that would be your first thought if you're in say a park or reservoir my advice would be to never ever try and rescue somebody with a stick from a standing position because if you is to do that the person in the water is struggling and they're panicking like you wouldn't believe and when they grab hold of that stick the likelihood is they could pull you into the water you should definitely not jump in we don't want to see multiple tragedies in the same place when somebody's been trying to help somebody if you can if you've got something to hand that floats i.e a football a pop bottle maybe if you've been at a picnic or you've been having a game of football chuck that to the casualty so that they can compose themselves control the breathing get calm and hold the float as a flotation device.

8:55Obviously, if you've got a phone, call for help, call 999 and ask for the fire service. Or if you're at the beach, call 112 and ask for the Coast Guard. So Becky, what is the difference between swimming in the sea and swimming in open water? Because it looks like people seem to drown more often in open water than they do at sea. Personally, I think the biggest difference is that we've got our NLI along our coastlines. so we've got rescuers on hand straight away which obviously makes a massive difference and our inland waters we have to rely on swift water rescuers which is obviously the fire service but they can be many many miles apart so for instance for dylan the nearest one i think was 22 miles away but i think there was only two swift water rescue units to cover the whole of south yorkshire now if they are both deployed on a hot summer's day there's no other help for people who might think they know what drowning looks like, explain to me what people need to look out for when it comes to drowning.

9:56Drowning is very, very silent. It's just something that goes very unnoticed. If you're in open water, you need to be keeping an eye out for people, making sure they're not looking fatigued, making sure that their eyes are still okay. Just all the things that you probably should become a knowledge that aren't, maybe just make sure that you do do them. And then that way that you can keep an eye on the person that you're swimming with. Now, I'm aware that schools are required to teach swimming already. So that's going some way to helping children, of course. But from September, water safety is becoming part of the curriculum officially.

10:32So first of all, is that enough? And actually, what are kids going to be taught there? I came out on the news the day after Dylan died and said, this needs to be on the national curriculum. Had that been put on the national curriculum 15 years ago, we wouldn't have seen the sheer amount of tragedies that we've seen over 15 years. You know, at the end of the day, I'm not 100 % sure how this is going to pan out and how it's going to look. All I know is that I've had a little look at the water safety strategy that is going to be going into schools. And from what I can see, Dylan's story is going to be used.

11:05So there's going to be a personal aspect on there. I'm very sceptical of what's going to actually put onto the curriculum because it's one line. They want to teach water safety and include in the water safety code. That's literally all it says on the national curriculum. And that is my next aim now to make sure that all schools are taught the same things. It has to be clear, just like stop, look and listen. I use the term no lifeguard, no swimming. I think you're right to say that the idea of being a strong swimmer, being an older teenager even or an adult, it makes you think twice about whether you actually need a lifeguard, whether you feel you're confident enough without it.

11:42And actually lifeguards are there for a reason. Yeah, absolutely. They're not there to spoil your fun. They're not there to stop you from going in the water. They're there to make sure that you get out of the water safely. If you can go to a lifeguarded beach or area or organised event, even inland, there are plenty of places that do open water and open water sports that have lifeguards or people that could help you or could rescue you on hand. And that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about. Just tell me what you think needs to happen in the UK to stop anything happening, like what you had to go through with losing your son, Dylan.

12:21I think landowners need to take more responsibility. I think local authorities need to take more responsibility. I think the government needs to put money into prevention. I mean how easy would it be for the government to put out public safety announcements on the TV so that parents, teenagers, anybody that was watching telly, young kids, how many people would see those public service announcements. obviously parents are seeing the news but newspapers and news is a little bit different you sit back and you think oh I feel really sorry for that family I'm oh it's really sad that it's really sad news and seeing something that actually educates you or actually emotes you or if you was to see for instance a quick clip that just shocked you on television between Coronation Street for instance it's going to educate you it's going to stick with you one of the reasons why I do what I do is because somebody came into my school about something nothing to do with drowning but about something when I was a child and they had a massive impact on me because they came into my school and did a talk so I wanted to have that impact on people I get people telling me that they're educating their children now because of me they stick with the campaign and you watch them grow you see them putting up their own pictures and that they're growing up and that their lives are changing and obviously that then also has an impact on me as well because every time I see somebody reaching a new milestone I think I didn't get to see Dylan doing that.

13:43Yeah absolutely. I suppose the difficulty is you want to get to a point really as a campaigner where you don't actually need to do this anymore right but you clearly don't feel that we're at that point where people have been given the information that they need to never have to live through what you lived through with Dylan. I've not got time to sit down and grieve just yet. I've got work to do. I've got to make sure people live. As much as we're seeing the tragedies, what we're seeing, I know that my work and what I do is definitely impacting on saving lives and having a definite positive impact.

14:18So I'm not stopping. I'm absolutely not. But as long as there's breath in my body, I will keep fighting for better water safety. Becky, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Thanks, Becky. Now you can get in touch with your thoughts on today's episode and share ideas for future episodes by emailing why at sky.uk. And don't forget to follow This Is Why on your podcast app and to subscribe to our YouTube channel as well. We'll be back tomorrow.

15:01I'm Sam Coates from Sky News. And I'm Anne McElvoy from Politico. Downing Street drama, leadership battles and policy U-turns. We're on it before it breaks. We take you straight into the rooms where the real political conversations are happening. Smart Insight, clear analysis in your feeds by 7.45am. So you start your morning fully brief for the day ahead in British politics. Hit follow and listen to Politics at Sam & Anne's wherever you get your podcasts.