Why Gen Z is giving up alcohol

0:02Sky News. The full story first.

0:11Nearly half of all young people are turning to low or no alcohol drinks. And this is why.

0:27Hi everyone, Neil here. It has been a rough couple of weeks, hasn't it? So does anyone fancy a pint? Well, if you're aged between 18 and 35, the answer may well be no. Sobiety is restrictive, is the thing that I hear most often. Top five are coffee drinks that I love. If you're a non-drinker or you're just socially anxious, Just here's how you're going to make it through the holiday party season. They're calling it the Sober Curious Movement. Actually, the data suggests that, rather than a passing interest, almost half of all young people are turning to low or no alcohol drinks. It is definitely more acceptable now, but at the beginning, I used to tell people I didn't drink and they looked at me like I just sprouted a second head.

1:08I sat down with Millie Gooch. She's a Sober Curious influencer, a best-selling author and the founder of the Sober Girl Society. Millie, great to have you with us on the podcast. Let's start with your story. You are a sober young adult. I mean, when and why did you decide on this path? yeah so I stopped drinking just over eight years ago now when I was 26 it was largely because of the effect it was having on my mental health I always say I kind of learned to drink when I went to university and it was very much you know binge drinking mentality and you know Geordie Shore was the the program of the time where it was going out and getting mortal and sort of I worked in bars and clubs and I always kind of struggled with my relationship with alcohol I think I was someone from the beginning who probably drank for all the wrong reasons and always took it too far, never learned to kind of drink sensibly.

2:01And I just got worse and worse as time went on. And I was really struggling with anxiety and depression. And it was kind of like exacerbating that I was in a bit of a cycle of, you know, drinking to feel better about that. And then the next day, kind of feeling worse. One day when I was 26, I had an almighty hangover. And I said, I just, I don't think I can live my life like this. And I was worried that if I kept living my life like that I was going to end up in a place that I couldn't really pull myself back from. So I said that day, you know, I'm going to stop drinking for a while and eight years later, but still here.

2:31So how difficult was it for you to make that transition? In fact, how on earth did you do it? Yeah, I think it is really difficult because first of all, alcohol is absolutely everywhere. You cannot go to a celebration or a commiseration without it being there. At the same time, I was 26 and, you know, all my friends were drinking. I was working in environments that were really boozy so it is really hard so I think I just started like really slowly and taking it sort of like day by day of right okay this social occasion I'm not going to drink and then the next social occasion and I think the hardest part is you're in a sense a little bit like a newborn child because you have to like learn how to do a lot again you have to like learn how to socialize again how to dance again sober and and all those things so it's not even if there's a collective like not drinking the harder things are like navigating people calling you boring or peer pressure or trying to learn how to dance and not feel like really really awkward in your body so I think there's so many kind of hard aspects of it as you go through it and you get new challenges every time.

3:29Your point about dancing is well received the idea that I could ever take to the dance floor without at least a couple of drinks inside me it's almost beyond my imagination and I suppose for many people that's part of the problem isn't it that actually alcohol is so embedded in our culture that it is almost unthinkable to do what you and many many others are doing i think it is definitely more acceptable now but at the beginning i used to tell people i didn't drink and they looked at me like i just like sprouted a second head i always got there good on you but i could never do that and like you said i could never get on the dance or sober or things like that and i think a lot of us don't give ourselves enough credit i think like one thing i've kind of really learned is when i'm in spaces like running events or things where girls come in and they're really nervous and then normally that's the point where someone would have a drink and then they would ease into a situation but actually we do ease into situations naturally is what I've realised over time you become more comfortable with your surroundings you find someone to talk to and actually I think a lot of us just don't give ourselves the chance to experience a night out without drinking or you know dancing without drinking and actually being like do you know what it's not the worst thing in the world I could probably do this again.

4:34What are people telling you when you ask them just why aren't you drinking? Yeah, I think it's a perfect storm of so many reasons. You know, one is the mental health conversation. I think people are way more careful about, you know, what they're putting in their bodies and how it is affecting their mental health. And I think the cost of living crisis is a massive one that I don't think we can ignore. I think a lot of people just, A, can't afford to go out and drink loads, or B, they're having to make more careful choices about what they're spending their money on. I think, you know, from a lot of the kind of young, young ones that come to us that are like 18, 19, a lot of their parents have had problematic relationships with alcohol and they've seen that develop.

5:09I think social media is a huge one, I think for better and worse. The good part is there's so much more out there now in the world to do that isn't just going to a bar or a club. And I think, you know, you go on TikTok, you've only got to scroll a bit before there's like a new restaurant or a cool experience or something. So I think there's that and there's loads of role models out there as well that you can see now so you don't feel like you're doing it on your own. But I think from a negative side of it, I think there is a bit more of a fear of like instant documentation i think people don't want to go out and do something embarrassing when they're drunk it ends up as a viral video the one that people don't talk about probably as much is probably the drugs element as well it is like we do have this idea that like jen said of this like crazy healthy generation i don't necessarily think that's the full story and i think cost of living also kind of comes into that where for for some now it's cheaper to do a night of drugs than it is to do a night of drinking you've set up something known as the sober girl society just to explain the point behind it when I got sober essentially I didn't know a single other sober person and you know my friends were all saying well-meaning things like you'll be fine on a night out sober and I was like I don't have anyone to like get advice from or like I just didn't know you know what why am I feeling these feelings and so I wanted to kind of like meet other people at the same time I was a journalist so I was like writing about sobriety and like putting that into the world so I was like maybe I'll create a space are up and kind of like talk about the things and you know maybe 10 of us will meet up for like non-alcoholic drinks and yeah now it's turned into this like kind of global platform we run events up and down the country a lot of our events aim to tackle the exact problems that we were talking about so like at the beginning I remember one of the girls said to me I cannot get on a dance floor sober can we do a dancing event so then we started running like a regular dancing event to help people get the confidence to get on the dance floor sober there's so many things that we do and I thought it would probably last like a year but it's only got bigger which is yeah great to see.

7:00What would your advice be then you know if there's a young person listening to this who perhaps has issues with alcohol or has a problematic relationship with it or just simply doesn't enjoy it I mean the fear in their mind is what happens when I go home for the family Christmas what happens when I go to the wedding what happens when I go out on Friday night with my pals what would your advice be? Yeah I think the first one is be honest because I think at the beginning I didn't really tell my friends like how important it was to me or like how serious like I was kind of worried about my relationship with alcohol and I think the more honest you can be I think sometimes that is really helpful I mean I think there are definitely situations where friends especially might still make jokes and things like that but then maybe you need to take a good hard look at those friendships are these people that genuinely want to support me and want the best for me in life I think that's probably the first thing I would say the other thing I think is always we have this stereotypical idea of what our problem is and it might not be that problem it It might be, you know, causing you debt.

7:54It might be that you're struggling with your mental health. It might be that every time you go out, you start screaming at your boyfriend. Like, if it's causing you regular problems in your life, you can take a break. You can have a reset. You can try and cut down. Like, you don't necessarily have to say, you know, I'm going sober forever. But I think it's really important to regularly kind of like re-evaluate your relationship and see where you are with it. Here's the killer question for you, Millie. If you're not going out drinking, what on earth are you young people up to? Everything. Do you know what?

8:19I eat a lot. I probably go to a lot more restaurants than maybe someone who's going to more pubs than me. Like I definitely put my money into hospitality in different ways. And I still like going to the pub. It's not me saying like I don't like going to pubs and clubs. I still also like doing that. But I'd say my life is way more varied now. Whereas that was the only thing that I used to do to have fun. Now I'll do so many more things. I mean, I've tried so many like different activities over the years from like pattern boarding and whitewater rafting to like going to boozeless brunches and crafting.

8:50and pottery and I've done all sorts of weird stuff over the years. I think, like, there is so much out there now, but that isn't to say, like, oh, you know, I just sit at home and drink peppermint tea. I just try lots of, like, new things, which I kind of love. Thanks, Millie. Now, we do know that pubs in this country are closing at a rate of knots. Also, that young people just aren't drinking the way that previous generations did when they were their age. So, are young people ultimately to blame? Kate Nicholls is chair of UK Hospitality. Kate, we've just been speaking to Millie about the fact that she and so many other young people just aren't drinking in the same way that, you know, my generation used to.

9:33What effect is that having on the trade? Well, I think the licensed trade, pubs, bars, restaurants, nightclubs, it's a continuously evolving industry. It's very good at adapting to changing consumer trends and moderate drinking or moderation of drinking, mindful drinking. That's something that's been going on over the last 20 years. So pubs and bars are very well used to this. You've got a quarter of young people who don't drink at all. And that is certainly higher than we would have seen a generation ago. But we are seeing them still coming out, still having drinks and the range that they're looking for, functional drinks, low and no alcohol beers.

10:12And pubs and bars are able to adapt to that and still provide that great experience. And crucially, 91 % of 18 to 24 year olds say they want to go out and socialise with family and friends and they want a value for experience. So they are still coming out. It's a myth that they're not. When it comes to margins on these low or no alcohol products, are pubs, restaurants able to make the money that they need to off of those products rather than the traditional alcoholic drinks? Yes, in fact, on soft drinks and low and no. Sometimes the margin can be better because people are paying for a premium product.

10:47The good quality ones that we've got now, things like Seedlip, things like Lucky Saint, the Lagers and Guinness Zero being the biggest seller as well. They're actually brewed and then they have the alcohol taken away. So that means that there's still quite a complex artisan production process to go through. These are not cheap products that people are looking to buy. What these businesses are relying upon is a high volume of low value products. As long as you've got people coming in, as long as you've got people socialising and you're able to sell them additional experiences, that margin pressure is not as acute as you might think it would be from the pure stats alone.

11:23Talk to me then a little bit about the way in which the industry is adapting. Well, people are primarily going out now in order to socialise. I think probably you and I, when we were going out, probably at university, were going out to have a drink and everything else was incidental. These young people are going out to socialise, to spend time with people, to have that in-person connection. In a digital world, it's an analogue activity and it's having a laugh, it's having fun. These people are looking for an experience too. So competitive socialising is a big thing that people look for, but darts, games, dominoes, traditional bar games, but also adding those extra games that people can do and food.

12:01So those are the key components. Obviously, it won't work for everybody. There'll be different things that different venues can do. But that at the heart is what people are telling us they're still looking for. We've done various reports into Gen Z. They're not that different from the rest of us. They do just value that human connection and they want that experience. Competitive socialising. Now, there is a phrase that I have not heard before. So just explain a little bit more about that. At its very essence, you've got venues that are dedicated to it. It's a flight club. You go and you book in with a group of friends and you're playing a competitive round of darts.

12:36You've got swingers, which is crazy golf. You've got clays, which is clay pigeon shooting virtually, not reality inside a bar. So these are different experiences. But, you know, an ordinary pub or bar can take some of the learning from that to show what you can do in having these quizzes, having different activities that you can do. Young people are going out ever more frequently and over 90 % of them have tried a competitive socialising activity and that's the new going out for them. The drink while they're out is incidental, the food is incidental, the activity and the engagement is what's key.

13:10We have a significant amount of young people who either don't drink or don't drink to excess. I just wonder what a pub will look like in 20 years time if that trend continues and if perhaps we might be losing something. Pubs have existed for thousands of years. You've got the first pub, it's still in existence, but it was mentioned in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales and it's the George in Southwark. You know, it's evolved, it changes. It doesn't look the same as it did a thousand years ago. It doesn't look the same as it did 20 years ago. We've now moved fast forward 20, 30 years, a lot of seating, a lot of table service, a lot of food.

13:47You go to a pub for a cup of coffee, for a soft drink. So at the heart, they are your home from home, free at the point of entry. You can go in. It's that old adage from Cheers, isn't it? That you go in, everybody knows your name, you go to your local, you can sit and have a talk with a stranger and if you're lonely, that's a brilliant place to go and meet somebody. So 20, 30 years from now, pubs will still exist. They will undoubtedly look different but at their heart, there'll still be that social space where people come together and interact. So reports of young people being responsible for the death of the pub are greatly exaggerated in your view Kate.

14:23Very much so. This time last year there was a trend where young people were rediscovering some of the very traditional boozers, community East End boozers and the wonderful Victorian gin palaces that we still have in London, in Manchester, you know reconnecting with what the traditional bit of the pub was all about and having a proper pint in a proper dimpled pint glass with a handle. There is a trend for nostalgia that people are going to. And as I say, it's a myth to say that young people aren't drinking. They might be drinking differently. They might be drinking mindfully, but they are still going out and socialising and they are drinking.

14:58You've got a lot of trends now, bookending, zebra striping, light clubbing. People are going out differently and socialising differently, but the death of the pub is not going to happen anytime soon. thanks to Kate, Millie and of course to you for listening do make sure to get in touch with your thoughts your views on what you've been hearing at why at sky.uk perhaps you've given up the drink or perhaps you're sitting at home rolling your eyes at this abstemious generation just let us know and if you're on Instagram why not come say hi to me there as well at Sky News New we're back again tomorrow

15:41Thank you.