Why is Anna Wintour the most powerful figure in fashion?

0:02Sky News, the full story first.

0:11She's the queen of high fashion, immortalised in the movie The Devil Wears Prada. And as the sequel is released, Anna Wintour remains perhaps the most powerful person in the industry. And this is why.

0:25I'm Sam Coates from Sky News. And I'm Anne McElvoy from Politico. Downing Street drama, leadership battles and policy U-turns. We're on it before it breaks. We take you straight into the rooms where the real political conversations are happening. Smart Insight, clear analysis in your feeds by 7.45am. So you start your morning fully brief for the day ahead in British politics. Hit follow and listen to Politics at Sam & Anne's wherever you get your podcasts.

0:57Hi everyone, Neil here. Today we're going to be talking clothes and why one woman undoubtedly influenced the stuff you currently have hanging in your wardrobe. In fact, you may well have seen a character in the movie, The Devil Wears Prada, based entirely on her. I went to the premiere wearing Prada, having no idea what the film was going to be about in the end. I thought it was a fair shot. Anna Wintour could make or break careers in her role as editor-in-chief of Vogue. but the movie and the story behind it elevated her to even greater heights. It made her instantly iconic everywhere, probably even in Mongolia.

1:37She no longer edits Vogue. She moved on in 2025 to an even more senior position for Vogue publisher's Condé Nast. But with a Devil Wears Prada sequel just out, we thought we'd jump the velvet rope, lag our way into the VIP and find out exactly who Anna Wintour is. Paula Froelich is a showbiz journalist, senior story producer and on-air talent for Newsdation. Some of you may remember her from a previous episode about actor Timothy Chalamet.

2:06I think some people listening to this podcast, their only thoughts about Vogue will be that it is an incredibly expensive collection of adverts for incredibly expensive dresses. So for that part of our audience, just explain who exactly is Anna Wintour? Anna Wintour is a lot of things to a lot of people, but she got to where she is and controls pretty much everything you wear because she was for many years the editor of Vogue, American Vogue. Now she overlooks all of Condé Nast editorial. So everything that you read in major magazines that come out of Condé Nast has been touched on or agreed by Anna Wintour.

2:54She is also over British folks. She is also over all the worldwide folks. She is also over Vanity Fair. Just explain why she is so powerful in this industry. I mean, clearly, you can see me at the moment, Paula, and I am not a dedicated follower of fashion. For those who are like me, just explain why she was able to wield such influence from an editor's chair. Absolutely, I will. And by the way, you may not think you're a dedicated follower of fashion, but there is a reason why you chose that shirt, is there not? It's not just some rando thing. You saw it in a store and you liked it, correct? Yeah, indeed, indeed.

3:35And one of the reasons why it's in the store is because someone designed it. And the reason why they designed it is somebody asked them to because it followed a certain trend. And most likely, Anna Wintour had something to do with that trend. So you may not like her, you may not know her, but at some point, you're still doing something that she has influenced. But there was also a kind of a personal brand that went along with the cultural powerhouse, which I suppose starts with the way she styled herself. She's had a distinctive look for decades. She has a very strict bob that she gets trimmed once or twice a week.

4:20It is a certain color that she gets touched up once a week. She wears very big, dark sunglasses at all times, even at night. And in fact, before branding was a thing, before social media, before all of it, there was Anna Wintour who got it, who understood that her power lied a lot of ways in the way that she looked. It became one of the, I suppose you could call it cliches of, you know, the front row at London Fashion Week, Paris Fashion Week. She would be there staring imperiously on from behind those massive oversized pair of sunglasses. And when it came to, you know, a nod from Anna Wintour, I mean, she could make or break a business at one point.

5:08She could, absolutely. In fact, she has made and broken many fashion designers. Marc Jacobs wouldn't be here without her. You were just talking about how she wore them at fashion shows and she needed to. You have to understand before fast fashion, before everything was instant, she needed to maintain not just an air of mystery, but she didn't want everyone to know what her reactions were. She couldn't have a dress walk down the runway and have her eyes widen or give a look. So she perfected the mask so that in six months or a year, whenever the magazine came out, it used to be six months for the lag time.

5:52Whenever it came out, people would be shocked and amazed and they would go and run and buy. But for all of Anna Wintour's very real power, I mean, I do find myself wondering, you know, whether or not there might be a kind of a slightly darker side. I mean, you know, you don't have to be a dedicated follower of fashion to know that Anna Wintour has something of a reputation when it comes to her management style. Oh, management and personal. Absolutely. So management style, she takes the icy demeanor back into the office. She is very imperious. She is very demanding. and you do not disappoint her.

6:29I know many people who have worked for her for years. However, the good news is they are now the best at what they do because she trained them to be the best at what they do. Now, the biggest complaints were always, there were kind of the show ponies and the workers. And the show ponies were gorgeous. They were very powerful, perhaps didn't work as hard as the worker bees. The worker bees were, you know, slavishly at their desk at all times. So there was that complaint as well. However, it's the biggest thing in the industry. If you say, oh, this person is coming to work for us. She worked for Anna.

7:11You know what you're getting. You're getting someone who was very well trained, very well turned out. It was the best finishing school in all of New York, or Fleet Street for that matter. Still, it must have been for at least the initial phases of people's careers under Anna Wynne to a baptism of fire. I mean, I heard at one point over at Conde Nast kind of headquarters, people wouldn't even dare to get in a lift with the woman. Of course not. Nor would they want to talk to her, nor would they... You don't want to stand out to someone like that unless it's your work. because you let your work speak for yourself.

7:47You don't get into a lift and say something witty and hilarious and think you're going to be friends. No, she's got 80 things on her mind. She doesn't have time for that. And nor does she want to entertain you. It's annoying, but it's frankly understandable. What's very interesting though, is that if you look at her personal life, you look at her children, they are lovely people. You look at her stepchildren, They are also lovely people. And she is very warm when she needs to be, to whom she needs to be. I suppose this is the point then, Paula, when we need to start talking about The Devil Wears Prada, a movie that I saw many, many years ago, a movie that I'm certain that you have seen.

8:29For those that haven't, just tell me the story. The Devil Wears Prada was huge. It was a massive worldwide box office hit. And it was really seen as, oh, this is the behind the scenes look at Anna because she had been so close mouthed. You know, after the Devil Wears Prada came out, there were several documentaries. But this was really the first kind of look that people like, oh, behind the scenes. And it really did seem to be. It was about this imperious, glamorous editor, and she had two assistants, and everyone was terrified of her, and they had to be exact on everything because she was exacting.

9:12And it was off of a book written by Lauren Weisberger, who had actually worked for Anna at one point. So it was, you know, a thinly disguised tome, if you will. However, the funniest thing was, I remember reading the book and tossing it down and being like, are you kidding me? Because when you read the book and you read what she has to actually say, you go, that's it? Are you kidding? I was in newspapers. I worked 90 hours a week for the first five years. You had to go get someone's coffee? Cry me a river. But the movie actually was quite good. You know, it was actually something where you're like, ooh, this is hilarious and glamorous and fascinating.

9:58And there were some comeuppances and there was the plucky heroin that you were supposed to cheer for. So, you know, it did a good job for what it was. And there's a reason why it made so much money because nobody had ever seen that kind of opulence before that existed back in the early 2000s. Do we know what Anna thought about it? Anna got in on it. You know, I think at first I remember the first premiere and everyone was scandalized and there were all these gossip columns writing, oh, Anna's furious. Oh my God, nobody wants to be a part of this movie. No designer will because they think they'll never work again.

10:37And I believe she showed up to the premiere actually wearing Prada. So, you know, for all you can say about her, she's British and she does have a killer sense of humor. So I wonder then, did the film cement her reputation internationally on her own at personal brand? Was this something that she could take advantage of? Oh, the film made her an international icon. I mean, it was the way that they wrote Miranda Priestly with Meryl Streep playing. I mean, if Goldie Hawn had played it, no, nothing. You have a legend, Meryl Streep, playing you? Oh, honey, it made her instantly iconic everywhere, probably even in Mongolia.

11:20I do wonder, though, this is an incredibly cutthroat industry. We're talking about tens, hundreds of billions of dollars worth of cash tied up within it. I mean, you would expect someone in Anna Winters' position to have at the very least sharp elbows. But is there another aspect to her character that is not made clear in The Devil Makes Prada? Yeah. Let me tell you a story about two female editors, one, of course, being Anna. The other will not be named. They both worked at the company for a while. Now, the first unnamed editor would walk into a company party, all the bigwigs, you know, there was Cy, Newhouse, his whole family, but everyone on down.

12:05and she would look around the room and beeline straight for Cy and the number two and talk to no one else. That was all she did. Now, Anna, conversely, walked into a room, assumed everybody was there for a reason and spoke to everybody and eventually would go see Cy and be received as a queen. When I think about movies about this particular industry, there are two titles that come to mind. Obviously, The Devil Wears Prada. But also Zoolander, Ben Stiller playing the titular kind of male model, Derek Zoolander, as a complete idiot. And look, I think what both films show is that fashion takes itself incredibly serious at times.

12:48And I'm just wondering whether Anna Wintour helps with that, or does she actually make it worse, that it's a bit too pole-faced? You know, I don't think she really cares. I think she thinks that this is her industry. She's at the top of it. And of course she takes it very seriously. It's worth billions and billions of dollars a year. That should be taken seriously. Now, as for male models, let's be honest, anyone who's ever met a male model understands Zoolander to a T. What though? Of course, she has moved away now from the direct editing of Vogue itself. What is her level of influence still?

13:24I mean, we are talking in the age of TikTok, of influencers, of Instagram. I mean, is she still as important as she once was? Oh, she's even more important. She now commands an empire of brands that are still very powerful and that are all over TikTok, social media, you name it. She understood that if she were to remain just the editor of Vogue and not be atop the empire of all the other magazines, and frankly, she's just another editor at a magazine when magazines are kind of dwindling.

14:27Smart Insight, clear analysis in your feeds by 7.45am. So you start your morning fully brief for the day ahead in British politics. Hit follow and listen to Politics at Sam & Anz wherever you get your podcasts.

14:49Do you think we have seen perhaps a kind of a slight softening in our public persona at the very least? I mean, one of the more interesting things that's happened over the past few years in terms of Anna Wintour is her relationship with the British actor, Bill Nye. Yeah, I do. Yeah, you have seen her kind of, yes, I get the joke. However, not public thing, not at work. You know, there are no jokes at work. However, you look to what just happened. She put herself on the cover of Vogue with Meryl Streep last month in America. And that never would have happened. but it almost did not happen again.

15:26And I suppose that brings us back to The Devil Wears Prada, or indeed The Devil Wears Prada 2. Have you seen it yet? Yes, I saw it. Go on. Your hot take. It's fine. Listen, movies like Devil Wears Prada are like TV shows, like Sex and the City. You know, I wrote about this for the Times of London. You go there for the fashion. The fashion was abysmal. I mean, at one point they had Meryl Streep, the Anna character in a bomber jacket covered in couch tassels. It was just horrific. You know, there was a party after the movie. And, you know, when the filmmakers around people are like, it's lovely.

16:07What an accomplishment. Oh, my God, we love it. The second they go away, they're like, oh, my God, did you see that coat, that fashion, so many sequins, it's hideous. The film itself was fine for Saturday night on a Netflix on your sofa. Is it going to change your life? Absolutely not. Is the character that Anne Hathaway plays still whiny, moany and insufferable? Absolutely. Just in general, though, do you think, Paula, that Anna Wintour has been judged fairly in the press over the years? Yes, I do. And nor do I think she pays attention or cares. The one thing I think that she cared about, the one thing she did not get that I believe she wanted was to be the ambassador for America to the UK.

16:55and that she did not get during the Obama years. And I think she was disappointed, but also understood she held many parties at her home on Sullivan Street in New York, down the street from where I used to live for 19 years, held many, many parties for him. And it was kind of expected, but at the end of the day, she didn't get it. And she was seen as more powerful as a fundraiser. Do you detect any signs that Anna Winter will consider retirement at any point? Why would she? Here's the deal. Retirement is very different. This is not the 50s, the 70s, or even the 90s, where people are like, oh, I can't wait to stop going to the grind.

17:41But what happens when A, you love the grind, you built the grind, and you don't want to be bored on a golf course. and the way that she's worked it now, where she's overhead and overseeing, if she wanted to take time off, she could because she's installed very good people to do the day-to-day. So I actually feel like she's made it where she doesn't need to retire and that if she wants, she can leave the building feet up. And as obviously someone who's very interested in fashion yourself, I mean, what has Anna Wintour meant to you over the years? Personally, I would say she showed that a woman can indeed have it all.

18:22She had husbands, she had children, she was a boss lady, and she really sailed through everything with aplomb. and while people love to hate her and many reams and many columns have been done about how awful she is and all this other stuff i actually once wrote a column where i thought she was a post-modern feminist because she yes it was hard to get into her circle but once you were in her circle she elevated you and much of her circle was women and gay men do you know what paula it is always a pleasure and never a chore to have you on the podcast thank you so much for your time once again thank you Niall and again I love your fashion that's your lot for this week on this is why um for more from Paula well we did record an episode with her not that long ago about the actor Timothy Chalamet and his thwarted Oscar ambitions and yep this is a bank holiday weekend fast approaching in England and Wales at the very least but we will be back with a special episode on Bank Holiday Monday.

19:25Our international affairs editor, Dominic Waggon, and I will be discussing whether the United Nations is truly fit for purpose. Stay tuned for that. Have a lovely weekend. We'll see you next week.

19:45I'm Sam Coates from Sky News. And I'm Anne McElvoy from Politico. Downing Street drama, leadership battles and policy U-turns. We're on it before it breaks. We take you straight into the rooms where the real political conversations are happening. Smart Insight, clear analysis in your feeds by 7.45am. So you start your morning fully brief for the day ahead in British politics. Hit follow and listen to Politics at Sam & Anne's wherever you get your podcasts.