Why is FIFA selling the World Cup?

0:02Sky News, the full story first.

0:12FIFA wants to sell stakes in the World Cup, potentially to people linked to President Trump. And this is why. Hello, Ed Conway here. Here is what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common? On the surface, not very much But on my podcast Stuff Matters I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them You will see how together they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now Just search for it on your podcast app and follow

1:01FIFA President Gianni Infantino has plans to sell off parts of FIFA to private investors who could then potentially make money from the World Cup. It's a controversial move which you might not be surprised to hear has links to his mate Donald Trump. You don't need people to compliment you Mr President but this World Cup would not have been such an incredible success without you. Numerous football organisations have criticised the plans, including the Premier League, while Europe's governing body UEFA has even threatened a boycott. And the new Prime Minister Andy Burnham isn't impressed either.

1:38Let me say this very clearly. Football does not belong to investors. It belongs to the people who fill the stands, who stand on the touchlines, week in, week out, rain or shine. So who stands to win from these proposals? And who could be the losers? Sky's sports correspondent, Rob Harris, has been following FIFA and its scandals for years. Rob, start by explaining what exactly FIFA is proposing. FIFA is trying to launch a new subsidiary venture that will oversee all the commercial rights to the World Cup. And 20 % of it could be owned by private investors. FIFA are saying it's all about unlocking the commercial potential to raise more money for all of its members around the world to give them more cash to spend on football by creating a venture it values along with JP Morgan at 20 billion dollars around 15 billion pounds but to many in football including European governing body UEFA it's selling off the rights to the World Cup because FIFA and football will no longer own 100 % of the biggest sports competition perhaps in the world.

2:43So why is FIFA doing this what's their explanation? Well they say it's about helping develop the game around the world and this has been very much a pitch from Gianni Infantino to spread the game beyond the elite nations he would see it saying that he can generate more cash but we haven't actually had many clear answers because Gianni Infantino has only produced his own interview with himself to say why this is necessary so we don't know why the existing football structures can't already make money we're told by FIFA that the World Cup that's just finished will have generated 15 billion dollars over a four-year period.

3:19So there's a huge amount that the organisation is already generating. And it's unclear why they need to bring these private investors in to help untap that growth or why they need such instant access to cash now. But there are, of course, many alternative explanations for this and claims it's Gianni and Fantino working in tandem with people linked to the Trump family to try to generate more money for FIFA, maybe indeed himself. Why is this so controversial? How could these proposals change the game? Well, FIFA are insisting that as an organisation to govern your body, it would still control how big the World Cup is, how often it's played.

4:00But it's potentially clear that outside investors could have an influence. I've seen a document which talks about how it's trying to potentially, with this new venture, enable competition enhancement. Well, if you're investing, you want to make more and more money to get a return, which could mean influencing a World Cup going to 64 teams. Currently, the men's is 48, having it every two years rather than every four years. And it's FIFA selling something of itself off. And this is a big criticism, without much consultation. So we've been picking up a sense that FIFA could be trying to launch a financial venture.

4:35But it was only after it was leaked this week and UEFA went public with its anger that FIFA suddenly confirmed these plans on Tuesday afternoon. And yet at the same time, Infantino has put out a video saying that they're now launching a consultation process. But I've obtained a presentation that's confidential that's being sent around football, which shows plans very concretely in place already for FIFA to receive the funding in October from external investors. So it's a very rapid, accelerated timeframe. And for consultation, there only seems to be one option on the table. Some of the associations and organisations have said they knew nothing about this until it was reported in the media.

5:12They feel blindsided. Why the rush? well I've been hearing from the Asian Football Confederation I obtained a letter sent to their members by the Bahraini Royal Sheikh Salman who leads the Asian Confederation he talks about the very foundations of football being undermined and also talks about not receiving any legal analysis not any detailed financial governance and nothing analysed in the repercussions and that is something lacking why the need to rush this now and we've seen it before with Viva And we've seen plans collapse in the past. In 2018, they tried to launch a$25 billion venture with their soft bank to sell the rights to a new club World Cup.

5:52There was huge opposition to that, particularly because it could have had sovereign wealth funding from Saudi Arabia. And UEFA led the opposition, they had to scrap it, they gave a very rapid deadline for that. again in 2021 they tried to push through doubling the frequency of world cups to every two years and again there was such opposition that they attempt to fast track this that it collapsed so FIFA doesn't learn from its own mistakes as it keeps trying to push these things through. We need some more meat on the bones when it comes to this proposal don't we? What details do we actually have so far?

6:22Well we're told that it needs the approval of two bodies the FIFA council which is a small rule making body and decision making body led by Gian Infantino it features the FA president Debbie Hewitt who's also a FIFA vice president then you've got the bigger congress of all 211 FAs and FIFA are saying it just needs the support of 50 % plus one to be able to go through and you're either in or you're out so 50 % plus back the plans they would get access to the cash and the ones who are not backing it will just receive the existing funding model so they're being dangled quite a financial incentive because documents i've seen suggest over the next 12 years if they back this they can have access to more than 80 million dollars and it could just be a quarter of that if they don't approve so if you're a football association around the world that doesn't even make that sort of money yourself there's a huge financial incentive that's been dangled to accept this then there's who is involved in this because we're told leading on the financing of this is a company called Thrive Eternal which would mean nothing much to many people but the CEO of Thrive Eternal is Joshua Kushner.

7:29Very familiar name because he's the brother of the son-in-law of Donald Trump, Jared Kushner. So this is where all the Infantino-Trump links come into play. In February I did an investigation which showed that Gianni Infantino was at Mar-a-Lago pushing launching a FIFA cryptocurrency along with Donald Trump's children and one of the children of Steve Wyckoff, Trump's Middle East envoy. So it shows these close entanglements. How did they end up working with this particular company to try to lead on investment when there's already so much criticism during the World Cup of Trump's links to Infantino?

8:05Let's talk about Infantino then. Who is Gianni Infantino? What's his story? Well, Gianni Infantino was elected FIFA president in 2016, almost the accidental successor to Sepp Blatter who was brought down in the maelstrom of the scandals of May 2015 when many FIFA officials and football officials around the world were arrested. Michel Platini the UEFA president should have been the natural successor. He was meant to succeed Blatter. He was the person above Gianni Infantino who's the general secretary at UEFA but then news of a payment that led to Platini being in for broad investigations led to Platini's downfall.

8:46So the former French football and great was forced out and there was a desperate search to find a candidate to step in to be able to run from Europe for the FIFA presidency and upstepped UEFA's general secretary Gianni Infantino who is better known for being the face of the champions league draws drawing out the balls and the teams he was a lawyer who rose through the ranks at UEFA always seemed to be very ambitious but certainly the right place the right time he was actually someone who was on the reform committees around the time of the FIFA scandals to help to clean up the place, including bringing in things like term limits.

9:20I would go to these meetings in Switzerland where they were trying to ensure such scandals could never happen again with payments being taken, siphoned out of the game. And he was meant to be a breath of fresh air, but certainly there's been concerns then growing throughout his presidency about how he's been running things, how he's been sort of making an executive presidency, even before his links with Donald Trump, his links with Vladimir Putin getting so close to him in 2018 around the World Cup, even though Russia had already invaded part of Ukraine. So a lot of political entanglements, a lot of concerns raised about his decision making.

9:53He needs to be re-elected in 2027 for what would be a final four-year term. And we have wondered how he'll stick around in football. Now, if there is this separate World Cup venture, which is called FIFA Forward Enterprise for now, it could allow him to stay in that position for many years to come. His current FIFA salary is$6 million. He could potentially earn a lot more, even though FIFA, say at the outset, is not going to get bonuses linked to it. But we've seen it before in sport. We've seen Bernie Eccleston, who took the commercial rights of F1 into a whole separate entity, and he became this hugely wealthy individual.

10:24Infantino's links with Trump, I think, has raised a lot of eyebrows. You've talked about it a little bit already, Rob, but why do they have such a close relationship? Well, during Trump's first term, that's when the United States won the right to stage the World Cup in 2018. And Gianni Fantino gradually built this relationship. So even around the time of Trump's impeachment during his first term, there was still Gianni Fantino at Davos, in fact, defending and praising Donald Trump. So he stuck by him so loyally, ingratiating himself. And then Trump losing the re-election perhaps meant there was a belief, well, he won't be there for the 2026 World Cup.

11:03But obviously Trump returning to power meant Infantino was right in there at the start. He was at the inauguration last year, very visible behind Donald Trump as he was delivering his inaugural address inside. And he's been one of the most constant presences inside the Oval Office, perhaps more than any world leader. And remind us about the controversy over the FIFA World Peace Prize. We saw last year when Trump was agreed at missing out on the Nobel Peace Prize, which Infantino had lobbied on behalf of him for, we saw Infantino create a FIFA Peace Prize for Trump. I mean, it seemed preposterous.

11:37I was actually talking about it. I have messages discussing with people the prospect of it weeks before it ever happened, but thinking that would be too ridiculous. Surely he wouldn't create his own FIFA Peace Prize for Trump. And yes, he did. He was even there at the Sharm el-Sheikh summit, which was meant to be the Mideast peace signing ceremony. then he's later on at the Gaza border peace event at the White House earlier this year he was even wearing a Trump hat there sort of laughing around which drew some a lot of criticism so he's been there very close to Trump and even talking about crypto projects together so that's where the financial has crossed with him crossing the line and then during the World Cup that's just finished the whole controversy over the lifting of Foller and Balogun's red card suspension with Trump intervening to get the USA staff back in for the World Cup for the US.

12:25That's right. He was the player who was sent off and should have been suspended for their knockout match against Belgium, but who was allowed to play following a phone call from none other than Donald Trump to Gianni Infantino. It was Trump asking Infantino, Infantino insists it was an independent body that decided even that it was only one individual. But that certainly faced criticism then from European in body UEFA saying that it undermined potentially the integrity of football, the way a politician was allowed to intervene. And why does all this matter? Well, FIFA has rules which say there can't be political interference in the running of football from around the world.

12:58We get various FAs being suspended around the world for government interference. Yet we saw what looked like US government interference during the World Cup, but that close alliance between Trump and Infantino meant it was something that was allowed to take place.

13:15Hello, Ed Conway here. here is what might sound like a slightly random question. What do AirPods, bananas and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common? On the surface, not very much. But on my podcast, Stuff Matters, I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them. You will see how together they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now. Just search for it on your podcast app and follow.

13:55Let's talk about the reaction to these proposals. You've spoken a bit about UEFA. They're holding an emergency meeting. What are their options? Well, UEFA could, I discovered, threaten to boycott the World Cup. They have deployed this threat before in 2021 when they were determined to stop the World Cup being played every two years. and it was saying, well, European teams could withdraw. And the World Cup is relying on UEFA. And that's how strong the feeling is. There's a lot of anger about being blindsided by all this, by not being part of the decision-making. Alexander Sheffer in the UEFA president is also a FIFA vice president as well.

14:30And there are many opportunities during the World Cup for Infantinian to brief all the football officials. He brought them together for big meetings at the start and at the end. And these are the sort of meetings that helps basically gain support of people because you're getting these nice luxury trips to the World Cup to go there. Now, what UEFA said in one of their statements that FIFA cannot use our sport to enrich themselves and their friends. Now, that was going very strong and FIFA have not denied anything. And while some have just been critical of the lack of consultation, some have gone much further about the potential damage to the game.

15:02The Premier League as well have spoken out along with the rest of Europe's major leagues and they said the World Cup should not be for sale. It is not the FIFA president's private equity asset. So this is direct criticism of Gianni and Fantino and suggesting how it's been used for financial gain, this project. And what about the FA here in the UK? What have they said? Well, they've expressed their deep concern because they knew nothing about this proposal. And it's quite rare for the FA to speak out because they've been very quiet during the last year or so as criticism of Gianni and Fantino has increased.

15:34Because they do have a Women's World Cup bid to get over the line as well, with FIFA due to ratify that later this year. And that's part of the reason why often people don't speak out, because they enjoy the lifestyle within FIFA. They enjoy the fact you get the development cash from them around the world or you want to stage their competition. So if you go against FIFA, there's a fear that you won't be in favour and you won't get things like the World Cup, which people, as we've seen during the tournament, just finished. You're so loved by so many around the world, people separating the World Cup maybe from the institution of FIFA itself.

16:05Yeah, you mentioned Sepp Blatter earlier, Rob. He's the former president of FIFA. Even he's come out and criticised this, hasn't he? Yeah, and within FIFA they'd say, well, he's discredited, he was brought down in scandal and helped to encourage the culture which led ultimately to people sort of siphoning money out of the game from commercial contracts, building up to the huge eruption of the scandal in 2015. But, you know, Blatter has been very critical of Gianni Infantino. Obviously, there was bitterness as well. The fact that, you know, he was forced out early and Gianni Infantino came in. But he is reflecting many of those concerns about what are FIFA's financial priorities?

16:43Why are they so willing to get into bed with some of these financial institutions without explaining it clearly at all to anyone around the world? And, you know, Blatter, perhaps surprisingly for some, is echoing the thoughts of many regular fans. Now, Rob, this is the million dollar question, and I know it's a hard question to answer, but how realistic do you think it is that these FIFA plans could go ahead? Are we talking about another European Super League that never actually happens, or could this happen? well one thing that could develop potentially is an attempt to salvage these plans by going ahead with a spin-off commercial venture but not involving private investors i mean there is an argument that there's a competition issue in terms of dominance of the market the fact fifa both regulates the game and sells the rights to the game but this current proposal doesn't separate those two completely because the commercial entity would still be a subsidiary of fifa So one way, potentially, if this huge backlash is proving hard to fend off, is to try to set up the concept of having a different venture running the World Cup.

17:54But FIFA will try and point to the fact that it is not unusual in sport to have private investors coming in. Rugby has sold some of the rights to the Six Nations, to CBC Capital. They were the former owners of Formula One. And perhaps you see it in sports that need to generate income because it might not be there and they need to accelerate that growth. and he's not mounted the argument as to why necessarily FIFA is so in need now of external capital but UEFA have such huge power the biggest countries in Europe Spain are the current holders the men's and women's world cups the biggest leagues are in Europe and we've heard the biggest leagues like the Premier League hitting out so has Infantino bitten off more than can chew ultimately could Infantino be brought down by all of this there's due to be a FIFA election next year someone could challenge him for the presidency if they could build enough support up there are some names in the frame.

18:41Vittorio Montaliano, the CONCACAF president covering the North American, Central American, Caribbean region from Canada. He's noticeably kept a distance from Infantino when he's been with Trump. Another potential candidate for the FIFA presidency, Nasser Al-Khalifi, one of the most powerful people in world football. He's the president of Paris Saint-Germain. He also is chair of the European Football Clubs Association. He's also the boss of BEIN, the media group from Qatar that includes some of the biggest channels showing football around the world. Also he runs Qatar Sports Investments using the state sovereign wealth so he's hugely powerful, hugely influential in the world game and is already very close at UEFA as well.

19:26So just a couple of names potentially who are already touted as potential successors if Infantino was to be toppled by this. Rob, what are your thoughts about the state of international football with Infantino at the helm? We've had lots of criticism of the hydration breaks, the halftime show during the World Cup. Many are despairing about the state of football, the state of how FIFA is running world football. Football has been transformed during the World Cup without much of a consultation at all. The fact the game of halves has been turned into quarters with these three minute hydration breaks.

20:00how the half-time show exceeded the allotted and allowed 15 minutes and went on for more than 27 minutes these are things that go right against the rules of football and it has been a rule-breaking presidency and now this attempt to sell off some of the rights to the world cup has raised deep anger and concern not just amongst the media or fans of people on social media but from the confederations that make up football from europe from asia from north america all complaining about the lack of transparency, the lack of process to lead to such a fundamental change potentially into how the World Cup is operated, no longer 100 % owned by FIFA, but with 20 % of it being owned potentially by external investors.

20:43And it's just deepening those longstanding concerns, particularly from within Europe, about just what Gianni Fantino has turned FIFA into. Rob, thanks so much for explaining it all to us. Good to join you. don't forget to email us at why at sky.uk with your suggestions for future episodes and this is why we'll be back tomorrow

21:14hello ed conway here here's what might sound like a slightly random question what do airpods bananas and a pair of shoddily made running trainers from the 1970s have in common. On the surface, not very much. But on my podcast Stuff Matters, I will uncover the deeper stories behind each of them. You will see how together they tell a fascinating new story about the world we live in. The first full series of Stuff Matters is out now. Just search for it on your podcast app and follow.