Why is Trump obsessed with Greenland?

0:01Sky News, the full story first.

0:10Coming up, as Donald Trump doubles down on his desire to annex Greenland, we're on the ground with our international affairs editor Dominic Waghorn asking Greenlanders just how it feels to have a superpower eyeing up your homeland.

0:27Ever had the nagging sensation that you might be in someone's crosshairs? Well, just imagine how the Prime Minister of Greenland is feeling right now.

0:44Strong words from Jens Frederick Nielsen, in essence, telling the President of the United States to back off. But why? What is it about this sparsely populated, ice-covered island in the Atlantic that so entices Donald Trump, someone better known for property deals that don't involve puffins. And this isn't just about denying Greenlanders the right to self-determination. There's another complication. Greenland is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, a member of NATO, that transatlantic organisation set up post-World War II to guard us all from threats, including Russia. The United States is NATO's biggest contributor.

1:22Article 5 of the NATO Charter says an attack on one is an attack on all, all of which begs the question, what would annexing Greenland mean for the future of the Alliance? An Alliance that has been the bedrock of the West's defence strategy for more than three quarters of a century. Our international affairs editor, Dominic Wagon, joins us from the capital nook. Look, Greenland, it's one of those places, you know, we've all heard of, but beyond that, I know precious little. So tell me about the place that you're in. Yeah, I mean, it's a kind of mythical place, I think, in the minds of most people, isn't it?

1:56And it's one of those places that's always intrigued us because it's called Greenland and it's actually a huge mass of very white ice. Geographically, it's enormous. It's three times the size of Texas. And if you fly over it, it's just, you know, a massive sort of ice that just goes on forever and ever. It's a spectacular sight. But in that area, three times the size of Texas, there are just under 60 ,000 people. So I think that's about the population of Andover or Basingstoke, if you like. And they're dotted around the place. We're in Newk, which is the capital of Greenland. and only around 20 ,000 people here.

2:26It's a very small town. Everyone knows each other. And also what's extraordinary about it is that none of these settlements here are connected by roads. It's a very unique, very special place. Historically, it's been tied to Denmark, well, tied to Scandinavia, going back to the Vikings. The Vikings came here, settled it, farmed it for some time. And then they kind of left. Mysteriously, the Vikings left it to its own devices for centuries. And then in the 18th century, the Danes came back here. They converted the local Inuit population to Christianity, and then they effectively colonize the place.

2:56And it has now been a sort of semi-autonomous or autonomous region of Denmark, which means that it manages its own affairs. Apart from for foreign and defense affairs, it kind of runs things itself. That population of 60 ,000 people elects a government, but it's part of Denmark. It's part of the kingdom of Denmark, and it's very proud of its connections with Denmark. And it also depends a lot financially. It gets around$500 million worth of aid a year from Denmark, and the Greenlanders value that connection financially. It also gives them cultural ties, but also gives them free health care. All of that makes many Greenlanders, I think it's fair to say most islanders, value the connection with Denmark more than they might be tempted by any kind of connection that Donald Trump can offer them with America.

3:43So what then is Donald Trump's stated rationale for what, in essence, amounts to the annexation of another country's territory? Well, it's a very good question. The rationale he's presented isn't really that rational. What he said is that Greenland must be part of America, absolutely has to be part of America, he has said, largely for national security reasons. And what he says is that the way it's presented by his officials is that particularly as the Arctic ice is melting and those roots of the Arctic open up, it's becoming more and more strategically important. America needs to have roots into the Arctic for military reasons, but also because of the minerals under the Arctic ice becoming more accessible.

4:25And America needs to be able to reach those minerals. And they are particularly valuable minerals in the world that we now live in, rare earth elements and the rest of it. That's kind of the argument presented by his team. But he seems to impress himself more in terms of kind of imperialistic words and language saying that Greenland should be part of America. And his aide, Steve Miller, one of his closest advisors a few days ago, said that America has a right to Greenland. Now, there's no historic right. It's never been part of America. America has had bases here. They had a lot of bases here during World War II.

4:56But in the wake of the end of World War II, those bases closed, all except one, which America retains. And I think that's what's baffling to Greenlanders, because they say, you know, if this is important for national security reasons for America, well, it has one base already. And a treaty that Greenland signed with America in 1951 gives it the right to build pretty much as many bases as it wants. They're also baffled, the Greenlanders, by the fact that he says that he needs to annex and invade the place effectively to extract its mineral wealth. Because they say America has as much right as any other country to send its companies here to try and get that wealth out of the Arctic ice.

5:30is very, very difficult because it is obviously buried deep underground and deep under very hostile conditions. So, you know, none of this makes sense to the Greenlanders. And that is, I think, what makes it even more suspicious to them. I think the suspicion for them, and Danes, if you talk to them, is that this is more about Donald Trump's ego. It's about his legacy. He wants to be the first American president for decades to actually expand the borders of America. And in that sense, Greenland is sort of low hanging fruit. It would be very easy for America to take in a military sense. Diplomatically though, and politically, it would be very, very painful for the transatlantic alliance, which is now under, I mean, arguably the greatest strain it's ever been because of what Donald Trump is saying about Greenland.

6:11But the president's been pretty explicit. He says Greenland, I'm quoting him here, is covered with Russian and Chinese ships all over the place. If that is accurate, then perhaps the national security rationale isn't quite as outlandish as it might first appear. If there was a kind of hostile armada of Russian or Chinese or enemy ships on the horizon marauding around Greenland and infesting his waters, then you might be able to say, if you're the American president, well, that is a threat to America. But there's no real evidence for that. And the Greenland marine pilots we've been speaking to, who have eyes on that, say they've not seen any sort of hostile armada.

6:50armada. Obviously, it's something that sounds good. And the way Donald Trump communicates is with pictures, with hyperbolic language. It's something I think that is going to cause alarm to those less informed ears back home. But there's no real evidence that this is happening. I think it's more about, in terms of Donald Trump, trying to present some kind of rationale for what is, frankly, a completely 19th century approach to the Western Hemisphere, the backyard of America. and he wants to be an American president who's acquiring territory. And if he can acquire Greenland, and he's now saying that he's confident he's going to, within three years, by the end of his term in office, then he'll be satisfied.

7:30If he were to do this, how would he do this? I think it's anyone's guess, really. And what was extraordinary about what happened yesterday was we had this unprecedented display of support for Denmark from all the other European leaders who have bent over backwards not to offend Donald Trump over the last year, not to cause him any kind of reason to rise to anger and walk away from supporting Ukraine, and who sort of pussyfooted and prevaricated around the morals and the international legal implications of what he's done in Venezuela, they felt they just had no option but to come out and draw a line or try and draw a line over what he's threatening with Greenland and to support the Danish Prime Minister.

8:10And to sort of look at that in the cold light of day, that is the whole of Europe, all European leaders, feeling that one of the allies is so threatened by the language and the threats of another ally, not an enemy, but another ally, a NATO member ally, the most powerful member of NATO, that they feel they had to come out and do what they did yesterday, which was effectively to warn Donald Trump to back off Greenland. Now, that was an unprecedented low, I think, in transatlantic relations. This is a diplomatic crisis, the likes of which we really haven't seen. I mean, not in my lifetime, and I don't think ever really.

8:41Despite all of that, Donald Trump sort of brushed it off. He seemed to act as if that hadn't happened at all. And he met with his advisors yesterday. And they say that he's considering all his options over Greenland. And they're confident that by the end of his term in office, he's going to have acquired it. Now, they say he's not ruling out military options. But what seems to be being put out there as more realistically is some kind of arrangement, which would allow Greenland to have an associate membership of the United States, some kind of framework that would allow it to sort of cooperate with America, as America has relations with different parts of the world without becoming the 51st state.

9:20It's called a COFA. For that to happen, Greenland would have to become independent from Denmark. Now, that's unacceptable to Denmark. It's unacceptable to Europe. And after Donald Trump didn't really respond to what the Europeans did yesterday, we heard a game from Metta Frederiksen, the Danish Prime Minister who kind of dug her heels and even deeper, saying any attack on Greenland, any attempt to acquire Greenland would be an attack not just on Denmark, but on Europe as a whole. So raising the stakes further. So, you know, this is not de-escalating at all. This is getting more and more awkward for European governments.

9:53But I think they feel there's so much at stake here, that Donald Trump's behaviour is so deranged and unprecedented and frankly, completely crazy that they've got to draw a line. And I think the danger is that this leads to some kind of irreparable bust-up between Europe and America, just at a time when Europe and Ukraine need to keep Donald Trump on side because of that conflict in Ukraine. We shouldn't forget, should we? I mean, Denmark is a member of NATO in the same way that the United States is. So what would be the practical consequences of Donald Trump, in essence, invading a fellow member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

10:30This is why it's so kind of hard to get your head around. As you say, this would be not just a member of NATO, but the most powerful member of NATO, the kind of the great pillar of NATO, attacking or annexing the territory of another member of NATO. The NATO alliance was set up so that if it was attacked by an enemy, all the members of NATO would get together and consider it an attack on themselves. It's not really sort have built for members of NATO to attack other members of NATO. So Mette Frederiksen, the Danish Prime Minister, has been pretty explicit about it. She's not mince to words. She said, if you have a member of NATO attacking another member of NATO, then that's the end of the alliance.

11:08It doesn't make sense anymore as an alliance. And it's very hard to sort of argue with that. You know, if an alliance starts attacking itself, it's not really an alliance anymore. But doesn't that entirely chime with Donald Trump's arm's length approach to NATO in the first place? Yeah, exactly. That is the big but, causing such alarm across the capitals of Europe, because this is an American leader who's really shown not much time for the Western alliance. And if you look at the national security document the White House put out at the end of last year, the language of that was basically as if America's not a part of NATO.

11:38It talks about America kind of mediating between NATO and Russia, which led to all kind of heads being scratched in Europe saying, but America's part of NATO. So in the mind of Donald Trump, NATO is a kind of ripoff. We saw that in first term in office, didn't we? and he regards it as an alliance that has basically cost America a fortune and not got much back. And he's very proud of the fact he's getting its member states to cough up more. But I think in his mind, America is not part of NATO. And you do have to sort of ask yourself that actually, would it suit his purposes to do something that would threaten the alliance as much as taking Greenland would?

12:10And I think the fact that we can sort of sit here and say, yes, you know, he doesn't seem to care so much about NATO. He would do something that threatens NATO. So, you know, I think it sort of supports those who say that NATO is actually on life support anyway. As an alliance, as a meaningful form of deterrence, Western deterrence against Russia, primarily and China as well, it's kind of had its day. And, you know, for that reason, everything that's going on here around Greenland and everything that happened yesterday, I mean, it's music to Vladimir Putin's ears. His lifetime ambition is the kind of dissolution of NATO.

12:42It's NATO falling apart and America going its own way, basically sort of much more towards Moscow than towards Europe. And I think yesterday we saw a greater sort of move in that direction, I think, we've seen even under Donald Trump's presidency. So what is the feeling in the capital, Luke, amongst the people that you have been speaking to? It's really interesting, actually. So we got here yesterday and I was here back in February last year. and I think that there was a sense then that there was a sense of resignation kind of disbelief and people would say well you know Donald Trump's unpredictable maybe he's threatened the place maybe maybe he's not we'll judge him on his actions on his words we're not going to get too het up on what he's doing now I think you know the people we spoke to yesterday and that he was a very sort of unscientific cross-section most of them have that kind of sense of resignation that well he'll do what he does and we'll have to live with it and we'll see what happens I do think there's a greater sense of unease particularly at an official level without doubt.

13:36There are, though, those Greenlanders, and we spoke to one yesterday who sort of, he said, we've been under the Danish heel and it sort of dug his heel into the ground. We've been under the Danes for too long. It's time we had a different future. And Jorgen Burson, who's the kind of spokesperson, if you like, for the separatist movement, who's very close to the Trump family, we spoke to him in Copenhagen on the way here. And he said, you know, he's confident it's going to happen. He says, you know, from what he's hearing from the Trump family and his contacts, there's no doubt Donald Trump is going to take Greenland.

14:04And he says it offers a better future. If you look at the polls, there is a very, very small minority of people who would like to get closer to America. They see their future as European. They really value their free healthcare. And I think they'd be very worried about what an American takeover would mean in terms of that. They're not the kind of people. Most of them are pretty poor and they're not the kind of people who would get health insurance under American rule. And they value that$500 million bailout or grant they get from Denmark every year as well. So the majority of people want that connection.

14:37I think the other emotion here is just offence, anger, and a sense of betrayal. You know, Greenland has been a close ally of America for decades during the Second World War. It's a vital part of that transatlantic bridge between America and Europe. The Greenlanders have done a huge amount to help the Americans in their defence, in their national security. But the Americans to come now and say that they're not defending themselves, that they are a threat to American security, is totally baffling and deeply offensive. And I think it's causing very, very great concern here. And I think as that penny drops that this might be about to happen or could happen over the coming years, that is deeply worrying and bewildering, I think, for Greenlanders.

15:16What about Greenland's current political leadership? Jens Frederick Nielsen is the prime minister. We interviewed him very shortly after he was elected. Back in February last year, he was running for independence. All the parties here run for independence but his party ran on the ticket of independence but not now at some point in the future so they they want greenland to be able to be rich enough powerful enough to stand on its own two feet and if it is able to do so then have a closer connection with america and more of an equal footing you know i think greenlanders are very worried by the idea that they would have a relationship with america which would be very unequal that they could be exploited that their mineral wealth could be extracted and they wouldn't benefit from it that they would end up poorer than they are today.

15:55And Jens Frederick Nielsen has kind of expressed that kind of sentiment that, you know, they do want to have a greater sense of autonomy and independence, but they don't want it now. They don't feel that they have the ability to do so. As you say, he's been pretty forthright. He said, this has got to stop these fantasies of annexation that Donald Trump keeps expressing just make no sense and have to come to an end. The fact that he was elected, and I don't think the polls have moved much since that election last year, kind of gives you a sense of where Greenlanders are in that sense, politically.

16:20They value a leader who is sort of independent enough to try and get Greenland to stand on its own two feet and to try and ward the Americans off. But I think they're under no illusion here that no one's going to be able to stop the Americans. And you asked earlier, what could this look like? Well, if it's not going to be some kind of financial attempt to buy Greenland, and the Danes have said that's not going to happen, if they can't sort of prize Greenland away diplomatically by some kind of arrangement that isn't full sort of annexation, but it's sort of somewhere between that, then we are looking at a military takeover and there would be nothing to stop the Americans sending in Marines to bolster what they've got in Pacific military base and take over those other bases.

16:57This is a town, the capital of 20 ,000 people. It's about the size of a small provincial English town. You could surround it, occupy it, take over its government buildings in a morning. And then you could just take over the other air bases dotted around the country and Greenland is yours. But you've taken it at the expense of the Western Alliance. And is that something that Donald Trump really cares about? I think the fact that that's an open question gives you a very good sense of the very strange times that we're currently in. What would be the international response if Donald Trump did this?

17:26Angry speeches at the UN General Assembly and that's pretty much it. I think that is just about it and Europe would have paid the price for not investing enough in its own defence and not anticipating the shift that we've seen under Donald Trump from a kind of rules-based multilateral world order to a world that is dominated by hard power, by strongmen, and Europe has not done enough to invest in that sort of hard power future. And the catch-up game is something it can't play very quickly. It's something that is going to take a lot of investment, a lot of economic pain on the behalf of European taxpayers to make up for it, and it's not going to happen overnight.

18:03So Europe would have paid that price, but could Europe have seen someone like Donald Trump coming? Quite possibly. He was president the first time around, but it's certainly not done enough to ward it off. So I think you're right. It would be diplomatic outrage. It would be condemnation. But ultimately, is Europe going to sacrifice Ukraine on the altar of Greenland? In pure realpolitik terms, there's a limit to what Europe will do, even in the sense of a NATO member attacking another NATO member's territory. It would still want to keep Donald Trump on side. It still would not want to offend Donald Trump so much that he takes military intelligence away from Ukraine, because that is a higher cause, arguably, in the minds of Europeans.

18:40So when Stephen Miller, Donald Trump's advisor, said a few days ago that no one's going to really put up a fight because America is the sort of sheriff in town. America has the greatest power. It's the pillar of power in NATO. He was speaking in no uncertain terms, but he was speaking the truth. And Europeans know that. And I think if you're Vladimir Putin or if you're Xi Jinping, that's music to their ears because it means that, OK, this is a world in which you can say, I want that. I want to take it. I'm going to come up with a reason for doing so. And I'm going to send the military forces in to acquire it.

19:08And, you know, any attempt to dress it up under international law has not been made by the Americans. But it allows the Russians and the Chinese, and frankly anyone else, were this to happen, to say, well, you know, the Americans took something they wanted because they quite liked it and thought they had to do so for security reasons. We're going to do the same. Oh, brave new world that has such people in it. Dom, haste you back from Greenland. Thanks very much. Cheers, Neil. Thank you very much.

19:34And you can read Dom's analysis over at the website skynews.com. Bye for now. Thank you.