Will the Andrew claims overshadow William in Saudi?

0:08Coming up, William and Kate break their silence over Andrew's relationship with Geoffrey Epstein.

0:18Wherever the royals go, questions about Andrew tend to fall. Charles! How long have you known about Andrew and Eggstead? Not that those questions are always answered. Charles chose not to respond when he was heckled at Clitheroe train station on Monday. His son Prince William is trying, well, a different strategy. Ahead of the Prince's visit to Saudi Arabia, he and Catherine have released a statement expressing their concern and their support for Epstein's victims. This came as a surprise to all of us. It just says a lot about how they realise that they cannot bury their heads in the sand on this one.

0:57It's the first we've heard from the royals since the Epstein files were released. And it's also a neat bit of timing because William would probably prefer to have the focus on his visit to a country that is itself not short of a dodgy prince or two. Our royal correspondent Rhiannon Mills is in Saudi Arabia. Let's talk about the latest allegations around Andrew. It appears that Lord Mandelson was not the only person forwarding emails that he probably shouldn't have. Many people over the years have said we get distracted by the sexual side of this scandal, but there's also the financial element as well, which, of course, we've seen playing out around Lord Mandelson.

1:34There were these documents that have emerged over the weekend, which seem to suggest that when Andrew was a UK trade envoy, so being sent around the world on behalf of the UK government to talk about business, it appears that he was sharing reports of official visits to Hong Kong, Vietnam, Singapore. One email is dated November 2010, forwarded by Andrew just five minutes after being sent by his special advisor. I just think that, for me, actually, is a fascinating avenue of this story that we maybe haven't looked into in the past. What information was Andrew party to? We know that Lord Mandelson, of course, is now being investigated for potentially and allegedly passing on market sensitive information.

2:20Was Andrew in a similar position and was he potentially passing information on? Of course, we have to stress that Andrew has denied any wrongdoing throughout all of this. But certainly I think it's another interesting avenue that people are certainly going to look into and explore more. William and Kate's statement this morning, it obviously came after those allegations emerged. So what did they say? This came as a surprise to all of us, even before William had landed here in Saudi. It was clear that the palace knew they needed to raise it. This is an issue that everybody's talking about, the Epstein file.

2:54So in a way, just try and get it out of the way as much as they can. What they've actually said is, I can confirm that the Prince and Princess of Wales have been deeply concerned by the continuing revelations. Their thoughts remain focused on the victims. Some people have said to me, they're not saying very much, are they? And I think that's because the bar is so high. The expectations are so high because of everything that's been released recently in those Epstein files. But I would say, actually, they've gone further than they've ever gone before. They have never publicly released a statement like this.

3:25And I just think that phrase, deeply concerned, it just says a lot about how they realise that they cannot bury their heads in the sand on this one. So why no? William is about to arrive in Saudi for what is a huge diplomatic trip for him. He isn't sent on that many overseas tours during the year. And yet the UK Foreign Office and the UK government have decided Saudi is a key target for us in terms of relationship building. However, clearly within the palace, they are very conscious of the fact that all eyes continue to remain on the Epstein files and how much they are revealing, continuing to reveal about the relationship between Epstein and his uncle Andrew.

4:10So in some ways, I think they've probably thought, do you know what? Let's get the statement out now. Yes, things will blow up today. You and I are going to be talking about it with the hope that maybe tomorrow, when he's really hitting the ground, when he's trying to highlight the ways that Saudi is modernising, will be drawn onto that and reporting on that instead. I'm not entirely sure that's going to be the case. Might we then expect to hear more from William and perhaps also Kate? As to Andrew, the latest allegations. You're not the only one who will look at that statement. Look, someone this morning has said to me, oh, it's a bit bland.

4:46They haven't said very much. And yeah, on the face of it, they're repeating what we have heard already from members of the royal family. This line, we must think of the victims. We first heard that back in October last year. We heard it from Prince Edward last week when he was asked in Dubai. The king, it has to be said, ignoring a question that was thrown at him. I think what most people really probably want to know is, as a family, are you putting pressure on Andrew to do more, to speak to the authorities? Which ultimately is what the victims and their lawyers are so keen for him to do, to share everything that he knew and saw in his time around Epstein.

5:26For the royal family, though, I think William will do his best in the next few days to just try and kind of focus on the job in hand. This is a really important diplomatic trip for him. You do have to think about the emotional toll that this has taken on them as a family. And I do know that within the family, within the royal household, they are concerned about the mental impact that all of this is having on various members of the family. Therefore, I think they are trying to avoid as much as possible stoking the story or inadvertently blowing it up into more than it already is. So that, I think, is why they're really careful about what they say and when they say it.

6:07Let's focus on the trip specifically. Why is William there? We do know that there have been quite close ties between the House of Windsor and the Saudi royal family in the shape of Charles himself. There's some brilliant pictures of Charles when he was Prince of Wales over here doing some sword dancing. And I found it quite amazing to think that he'd actually been to Saudi 12 times. times. And when you speak to people who know this part of the world, they will say that here in Saudi, they have such a high affection for our now king. They see him as one of them. And that really underpins the importance of William being here.

6:42Any trip by a member of the royal family is signed off by the Royal Visits Committee. It's not by accident that he's been sent here. It's probably in the last six months that they've decided that this is a key target for the UK. It was described earlier, Saudi, as yes, a diplomatic and religious centre, but it's rapidly becoming a commercial centre. But look, it's not without its potential controversies, of course. Those who know Saudi will talk about kind of the rapid change, social change that's happened here. But there are those, the human rights groups, who say that's not happened rapidly enough and not in the areas where it needs to.

7:21An expert in the region was saying to me earlier on today that we're not seeing westernization here we are seeing modernization and while there is social liberalization that isn't leading to political liberalization and that is why there's this controversy about William being here but also the importance of the conversations that he can have member of the royal family to member of the royal family and he will spend a lot of time with the crown prince Mohammed bin Salman and those conversations being seen as really important for the UK. I can understand the importance to the United Kingdom, but MBS, the Crown Prince, the CIA believes that he was the one who ordered the killing of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi embassy in the United States.

8:05So it just feels slightly weird for me to hear William lecturing his uncle on his historical relationship with Jeffrey Epstein whilst he sits down with Mohammed bin Salman. I can see why you'd say that, but they are two separate issues. They're being seen as really important peers, William and MBS, and the conversations that they can have are seen as very powerful. One person earlier was saying how actually for people here in Saudi on that diplomatic level, they accept and they welcome private challenge, but they don't welcome public challenge. What William can do is he can have those kind of more softly, softly conversations that maybe the likes of the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary can't necessarily have or make the same impact.

8:59It's fascinating to look at the importance of that, that royal to royal connection. And we will see that at play over the next like 24, 48 hours. I look back at the rationale Andrew provided for his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and squint and it looks pretty similar to the case that is made for the Prince of Wales going and speaking to the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. I mean, isn't what William's doing right now a bit of a carbon copy of the trade envoy role that Andrew used to have? Hold your nose. We've got to deal with these people for the benefit of Britain. Andrew had a very specific role carved out for him as a UK trade envoy, very specifically focusing on business.

9:39And we saw that, of course, play out through his pitch at Palace initiatives. So he was really seen as the kind of business envoy on behalf of the royal family. William actually has a much greater role. He is heir to the throne. He will one day be king. So the fact that he's been sent here is kind of elevated on another level. I asked, how do you feel about being sent over here? And a palace source said to me, look, he didn't even blink when he was asked. He knows that he has this role to play when it comes to representing UK PLC. But also, there is increasingly a kind of sense that he's sort of the UK secret diplomatic weapon.

10:24I don't know whether you remember, he met up with Donald Trump in Paris around the reopening of Notre Dame. From an outsider looking in, it seemed like quite an awkward conversation. But I'm told that the two men actually, when they went away and chatted privately, they got on really well. So William is being seen as kind of very influential with Donald Trump. And I think that's why he's also been deployed here to Saudi. Bring it back to Andrew, though. I do wonder, now that plenty of people are still focused on his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and for good reason, whether now is the point at which people will be asking more pointed questions about his time as trade envoy.

10:57I've tried to ask questions in the past. You basically used to face kind of closed door or FOI requests were knocked back. And what these files are doing essentially is giving us a level of insight into what Andrew was doing around that time as trade envoy, which we've simply never seen before. I think there's no longer just that distraction of, well, let's look at women that he was being introduced to by Epstein. Let's look at the sexual allegations against him, which, of course, he denies. I think there has now also been that shift onto the financial implications of this. And look, as we've seen for Lord Mandelson, that sense of the coziness with Epstein, the information that was being passed to him and was that market sensitive information, you do start to wonder what more may come out about what Andrew was passing on to him.

11:51Although, of course, we have to continue to say Andrew vehemently denies any allegations that have been made against him. What would constitute this trip being a success, not just for William, but for the country, particularly bearing in mind the criticism that I'm sure there will be that that statement that was made by the Prince of Wales did not go far enough when it came to Andrew. There is no doubt that there will be people who still think the royal family need to say more on Andrew, especially, I think, around the question of should he speak to authorities and share more about what he knew?

12:28And in some ways, that's what we're waiting to hear from the royal family. Are they actively encouraging him to do that? I would be really surprised if William in any way addressed that issue during this trip. He's been deployed here by the UK government and he's just kind of got to get on with the job. They've put together a programme which looks impressive. We're going to see some amazing things over the next few days. I think the UK government in the end will probably be delighted about all the pictures that will come out of this, about the conversations that he will have with the Crown Prince, the relationship that he will build with him.

13:04Because as people have stressed, they potentially will be monarchs at the same time. So this is an important longstanding relationship that he will start to build during these days. But look, there is no doubt Andrew continues to be a huge distraction. The whole point of the king stripping him of his titles, of his home last year, was to stop the distraction. That just is not the case. and it's hard to think how on earth they can stop trips like this being overshadowed by Andrew, Mountbatten, Windsor. Rhiannon, thanks very much. Well, after speaking to Rhiannon, Thames Valley Police have confirmed they are now assessing the allegation that Andrew passed on confidential information to Epstein.

13:50For the latest on that and, of course, the Saudi trip, just head to the app or the website. The Daily is back again tomorrow.

13:59Thank you.