#598 - Joaquin Phoenix

34:49I'm like, so you're telling me he teamed up with her mom and now they're the one. It's just like, but then that is something a lot of people have in their life. Like, oh, well, I talked to my girlfriend's mom and now we're team, or the, you know, oh shit, man. That guy was screwed, dude. Yes. Joe Cross was fucking screwed. Yeah, but he screwed himself. Yeah, he was the holder of his possibility and his pain at the same time. You know, it was pretty crazy. um yeah what was meeting Ari Aster like I watched some interviews with him he seems like a charming guy um yes I met one of his partners Lars Knudsen yeah yeah dude I had some video calls with him a few years ago I just really I was looking up but why we were just talking about something maybe thinking about an idea I had an idea about a um a movie and David Spade and I just wrote a movie and made a movie we paid for ourselves that we made right so it's fucking very unique it's done it's done we're editing it now and are you in it i'm in it i'm like this his sidekick he's like the main guy let me see you know all about making movies and then you were just playing dumb asking me questions setting me up setting me up to be like well let me tell you from the o not at all dude here's here how here's how it's done no no we fucking we have no idea what we have dude we may have a damn visual diorama that a couple of kids put together for their kindergarten class you know i was playing a busboy you know not commodus you know so i think it's definitely this is way different i think it's a different this is a is that the right way to say it commodus i don't fucking know anyway no i didn't know anything i mean i'm just learning little things but i i mean i get to talk to somebody who's been you know who has had a plethora of experience so you talked to lars lars is great lars is great producing partner of ari yeah i just realized that yesterday when i was looking it up i was like oh wow i'd speaking with this guy before but uh when i when i met ari uh we didn't we didn't meet it was we we spoke on the phone.

37:06And it was the summer of 2020 is when we first spoke. And he had this film that he wanted to make called Bo's Afraid that he wanted to talk to me about. And so I just, I spoke with him on the phone. And I mean, the first time that I met him, this is so crazy.

37:33This to shoot that movie um and uh it's so wild because it just was like normal we just accepted it but that's very strange right to not meet the director for like the actor and the director not to like be in a room together until they're two weeks off from shooting it seems risque yeah it seems risque to me to do something like that it's like you could interview your cellmate or whatever but you're like now i'll just wing it in there you know like you could You have a little small Q &A with your celly. So was there something that inspired you or led you to think? Because I think what's interesting also in the career of an actor is you start to realize, well, I only have so many times that I get to do this and times that I can afford to be away from family and friends and just take on such energy in my life.

38:24And so I'm sure it starts to become a little bit more poignant, like the choices that you do make. so what was there something about him or his processes that made you think this is the right choice or how do you land on a choice like that um you never know if it's the right choice or you're just going i mean honestly i just liked him he started talking and the way that he talked about the film and the way that he talked about the character i knew that it was personal and And I could tell that it meant so much to him, that he loved making movies, and it meant so much to him, and that he, like, I think I just got a sense that he was tireless.

39:12And, like, you know, the director, like, really has to be obsessed, right? Because they do have to do so much. which fork am I fucking choosing, right? Do you want them to actually care about that shit or else you're going to be watching the thing, Dunkirk, and you're pissed off? They have plastic silverware in fucking 1812. And I'm sure that wasn't the right year for Dunkirk either, so we're all bad. No, no, that sounds good.

39:49um so so i think that that's that that's maybe what you know right away i was like okay well this you know he he loves making movies and i i know that just from talking to him on the phone um and he's funny i mean i think that's the biggest thing sometimes you're just like do i want to hang out with this fucking dude i'm sure that's right um and it's like because you go through a whole range of emotions to make a movie. I mean, yeah, it's a movie and you're safe, but in the moment, your body doesn't know that it's not real. You know what I mean? It's just some shit that you're doing, right? And so it can, you know, things can get like, there can be a lot of emotion or a lot of energy and yeah, having somebody that you really like feels important.

40:46um and they paid me so much money oh god no they didn't give me some of it give me a little um dude side quest really quick so my friend josh used to live like i think somewhere like an e kind of like over by east la and um i've known who you were like a decent amount of my life because most of the world knows you knows your name but he said that you lived in his area And I was like, well, what if I opened up a shoe store called, uh, these boots are made for Joaquin. Right. I was like, just to get to meet you, that would be the goal. The only goal of the whole store was to get to meet you. And, uh, anyway, that was just like something funny that we thought of one day.

41:24But if you saw that store, say if you'd driven by a couple of times, like, do you think you ever would have stopped in there? Absolutely. Yeah. And I would have just like clean the place out for sure. Where was this? You just come in with a pistol. So you're like, they're all mine. Oh, that's not what I meant by clean the place out. I was going to do it legally. Oh, support the business? Yeah. Thank you, dude. Yeah. Does clean the place out mean like I'm here to fuck shit up? I think the, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that terms have changed every time. Oh, I didn't mean it that way. I apologize. See, these are the mistakes you can make.

42:01But thanks for saying you would have stopped by, dude. That's awesome. Yeah, no, it's a great, how could I not? It's a great store. maybe you should still put it together i'll tell you this one day if i make enough money and i can open up a small place that i could afford to do it on the side as a thank you to you for coming on the podcast and talking with me i'll open up a small one near you and i won't i'll surprise you i feel like something like that would be pretty special um when it comes to acting um has your approach to has your approach to acting changed over the years like as you notice your own evolution with it and if you get tired of talking about acting we can talk about something else uh has my approach i don't um maybe and maybe not i don't know i don't i don't i don't i don't i don't think so um you know you're definitely more self-aware it's just like you are yeah it's just it's just like the nature of of doing something you know that's like visible and you're out there for whatever 30 fucking plus years or whatever um maybe more than maybe 42 but are you wow that's a long time but self-aware in the sense where you're like um you know you all your like, like, do you start to know all the, like the, the palette you have as an actor or does that continue to evolve or does some of it get lessened because you're getting older and you can't, you know what I'm saying?

43:41You couldn't do the same thing. Maybe you could as a, as a 27 year old actor or 21 or 18 year old, like, does that palette grow or does it dissipate kind of? I don't know, maybe both things. And maybe sometimes it's maybe it just gets refined. Maybe just, you know, it's similar. It's just like a richer color or less rich. I don't know what, you know, I don't know what it is. Maybe that's what happens. Hopefully you have a director that also is familiar with your work and can like challenge you if you're not challenging yourself. But I think like, you know, it's like, I don't know, but I imagine, you know, when you're, you know, it's like a 20-year-old basketball player is coming out and, you know, he's just fucking just going for it, trying to make a name, right?

44:42He's just doing the thing. And at some point he becomes, you know, he's suddenly like one of the guys on the team. it's a different kind of pressure of like taking that shot right because it's like when you're young it's like oh it's scary because it's like oh if i fucking miss i don't maybe i don't get another opportunity but then when you're older and established it's like if i miss there's gonna be a lot of press about right and people are gonna be like yeah pay way too much money to fucking miss that shot yeah that dude should not be missing at this point like get the fuck out Like, dude, he wasn't even wearing sneakers.

45:19Like, what kind of guy do we have here? So this is, you know what I mean? So I think, like, that's what I mean by, like, being self-aware. Like, at some point, you feel pressure in a different way. Like, I think it's always, no matter what, it's always, like, you always feel the pressure. But, yeah, I think when you're 20 years old, it's just different. And, you know, nobody's really looking at you. You don't feel pressure when you walk on set. Right, so that kind of goes away, but there's a different pressure of like it's really that these overalls are hanging off my shoulders here. Yeah, I don't understand that.

45:58Yeah, I don't either, actually. To be honest with you, I was trying to be like the weight of the world on the shoulders. I was thinking of something that goes on shoulders, and then overalls came out, and I'm like, fuck, dude. No, no, it was good. You should stick with it. No, it doesn't sound good. A screenplay. I just felt stupid. I was like, oh, this is a really cool saying. I don't know it. Are there moments when you're acting where, because there's little moments whenever I do stand-up where I feel like people that are like relatives or something, there'll be a moment where I feel like my brother or my sister.

46:31Like there's sometimes where I turn a certain way and it almost feels like my mom. Do you ever feel like you channel like certain parts of you, like people come out of you in certain moments? I think I notice it more as I get older too. Does it make any sense to you? Sure. Like you ever turn towards your kids and say something and you're like, oh, I am, that was just my dad. Like that wasn't even me doing that. Yeah. I mean, I definitely in my life have a lot of my dad in me. Really? Were you surprised that you got so much of it? I was. And I think I was like the last to know. But it was like, yeah, like that, like that.

47:10And then like it's something I was like, they're saying like dad like those are not good qualities and so like sleeping in his car dad like right and so i then became aware of it but no i think i think my dad actually um i was aware from fairly young that um i i think he's probably the greatest uh influence or I was influenced by his life in my work. Um, I don't know if this is making sense. Um, I think I modeled so many characters that I've played after him. Um, he's, he's dead. He's been dead for a while, so I can talk shit about him. Yeah. So he can't disagree with you. Yeah. I was like, what are you going to say?

48:06Um, and if he is going to do, I just like, cause I was like, I don't, Don't say your dad died. It's fucked up. Make a joke about it. And then go, that's even worse. No, we weren't sure if he died until you said it. I'll be honest with you. Don't look it up because he might not be dead. We don't. He has a clicking, clacking over there. You channel him right now and just turn into him. That would be crazy. Yeah. Wow, that's kind of interesting. Yeah, I think, you know what? Sometimes I think I'm like my mom and I never thought I would be. And I was always even like rebellious against my mother. And then I'm like, you got to be.

48:38Sometimes I look in the mirror, I'm like, you got to be fucking kidding me, you know? But then at the same time, it's like, that was probably in my life, that was the connection that I wanted the most anyway. So it's interesting that that's what God gave me or that's how it, you know, that like, oh, it's like, this is kind of what I always wanted the most. And it's oddly, that's part of the most of what I am, you know? Yeah. Just interesting how sometimes things like that work out. Was your dad a funny guy? He's very funny. I mean he was he was a ham oh he was yeah like he loved doing skits for us kids really?

49:19that's cool of him yeah he was very yeah he was and what would he do like death of a salesman or death of I don't know what he did for a job death of like a employee somewhere or No, he would just have fun moments. One of his favorites, which always made us laugh, was something called The Fly Skit, where he just was literally, he just was a guy reading a paper on a bench, and a fly starts buzzing around, and he, like, waves it away. Then he tries to, like, hit it with the newspaper. You know, he, like, rolls it up. I'm like, it's it. And finally he goes in his bag and he takes out some bug spray and he goes to spray it just as it lands on his nose and he sprays himself in the face.

50:10And then like gets all fucked up from the bug spray and falls over. And like when you're like six years old, that's the most genius thing you've ever seen. Especially because we didn't have like TV and shit when I was young. So that was like high level entertainment. Oh, yeah. Your dad was the damn history channel when you were a kid. back in the day you know what i'm saying or they were that's so funny to think about i never thought of my parents were like the channels that we had like because we had some channels but it wasn't like that you know it wasn't like it every moment was accessed so really people were looked at as a lot more entertainment like let me go poke this bear and see what i can get them to do a little bit you know oh that's cool dude my dad um oh it's so funny dude my dad was very old when i was born He was like, he was born in 1910 or whatever.

51:01And so he was like, everything was very like, you know, and my brother and I would go to, he ran a, the World's Fair was in New Orleans when I was growing up. And he ran a, I don't know if he ran, but somehow they let him have the keys to go in there in the morning. And he, it was like a souvenir shop for the World's Fair or postcards, stuff like that in the French Quarter. and he'd always pay this guy, this guy who was a clown, right? He'd be like, go get the kids a couple of wieners or franks, you know, hot dogs. So we'd like, I just remember like one of my early memories is just being with my brother and this clown that my dad had given a couple of shekels to running us down the street to get us a couple of fucking hot dogs.

51:45And I was like, oh, it's going to be a fucking interesting road. So how old were you when he moved on? When he moved on, I was 16. and it was weird because I was like embarrassed of my dad because he was older so I didn't want to introduce him to people. I always had like this weird relationship but then I think as a kid it was fascinating to watch this older guy that that you love so much but you're also trying to keep hidden, you know? So how when you were 16, I do I'm going to fail at math. I'm trying to figure out if that's how my son is going to think of me. Because I was 45 when he was born.

52:29You'll still be fine. Huh? I think you're going to be okay. It's going to be, do not get a cane early, though. If you get a cane early, he'll know. If you get, I thought about this. I was just thinking about yesterday because I got to knock somebody up in the next two years because I need a family. But if you get a cane early, he's going to know. Right. So that's, so I basically, when I had my first son, I was your age. and it is something that I think about constantly. Like, because I just want to be able to be a fun dad and not be this. So did your dad die suddenly? Can I ask you? Is that right if I ask you?

53:09Yeah, it's okay, man. Yeah, he got cancer and I didn't even know about cancer that much and he died pretty quick. It was pretty sad because suddenly he got like, yeah, it was just kind of sad. I mean, it's all sad, But then it was, you know, I don't know. Well, of course it was sad. What am I thinking? We're fucking, you know, everybody was like getting the champagne out. But he was ridiculous. But my dad couldn't see. He would drive. He would take us somewhere. But he couldn't see the lights or anything. So he'd be like, what did it tell? Is it red or green? And suddenly we'd get it wrong and he'd fucking just drive out.

53:41It was all baffling. That sounds kind of cool. Yeah. I think he would have dug it. I've got to say it's kind of good. He would have dug it, dude. Wow. You would have dug it. did your dad have cancer or no? Yeah, he did. He did? He did, yeah. And here's something else that's fucked up. Okay. My sister's lost his ashes. No. Yeah. Yeah. Every couple months, somebody will send out a text to the thread and be like, has anybody found dad's ashes?

54:13And it's because all you could do is fucking laugh because it's horrible. Yeah, but it's almost like... It's just horrible. It's almost really like his last performance. I mean, that's such a fucking thing. Totally. It's a great bit. It's a fucking... You're right. It's his best moment. Dad's ass anybody found. I love that text too, you know? Just randomly every once in a while because it'll occur to one of us. I'll be like, yeah, which... Where the fuck are dad's asses? You send that out. and still don't know. Here's the thing. I mean, I'm blaming my sisters. Yeah. Might have been me. That's true.

54:56I don't know. The thing is, is that it's one of those real, like, you know, sometimes you have a vague memory of like, I know we were in here. Yeah. No idea. No idea. Like, yeah, do you ever walk in the kitchen? You're like, it's kind of like that thing. Like, what was I in here to get? You know, where did I put those, you know? Yeah. Oh, man. Thanks for sharing that. But that's funny. I'm glad we even got to laugh about your dad today and my dad. That's cool. I think spirits, I think when you laugh about somebody from your life or something like that, I think they feel that on the other side.

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57:54That's it. Shopify.com slash Theo. Take your side hustle and see what you can do. Have you ever met someone and you were like, I could play that person? Like, is that, because that would be like, kind of like, I feel like if I were an actor, that would be like my power. Like, you would corner somebody in a room of a fucking party and be like, I could play you in a heartbeat. Huh. You know? Does that happen with the good actors? I don't know. You have to ask good actors. I think that I, that's what this is called this past weekend. Yeah. How'd you come up with that? Because I just started on a Monday.

58:39To be honest. I didn't really. That's good. We didn't have a real drawing board there, Mr. Phoenix. I'm trying to think. I don't know that there's ever been anyone where I was like, oh, I have to play that. I've been inspired by like I've stolen shit from like friends and people that I've met. Oh, yeah. But I've never, I don't think that I've ever like, I'm going to play who? Exactly. Oh, yeah, you get to choose. You're the one who can do it. Yeah. But that's the interesting thing, yeah. I just wonder if you had that ability. Does that start to get into some people? But then maybe that's like some ego in there too.

59:28You play the broken so well, man. You really just have a, I mean, you are just like a harp that is missing some strings, you know? But it's really beautiful to watch a lot of times. Why do you think that, do you get attracted to those roles? It seems like you must in some ways. um yeah and sorry to just kind of like pigeonhole you and your abilities i know you have a lot of abilities um uh i definitely i don't know why i guess um okay so uh my dad was uh he was uh He was a complicated dude. And he, there was like a lot of like, I want to say dichotomy, but I don't even really, I'm not entirely sure if that's the right thing.

1:00:28But it is like. Conflict or something? Yeah. And he was really, he was complex or something like very like sensitive and sweet and thoughtful about him. And he grew up in a pretty tough situation and was in juvie, very young, and had this very splintered family background. They're pretty affected. Yeah, it's what you'd call a shit kicker. But he also was like a fucking hippie. and was like, you know, was, you know, vegan. And like, so I think like I was really, I think he was like so fascinating to me growing up because I think I saw those things and then that existed inside the same person. Yeah, let's get fucked up and get a salad on.

1:01:33Exactly. I mean, that's a crazy thing to even think. you know and i'm sorry to say that just a little bit like no it's it's great it was it was great and it was perfect and i needed that moment um so i i think like that was really again i think maybe i was i'm not you know i don't know what i think i was attracted to those roles maybe as a way of whatever you know connection or just yeah just like familiarity just curiosity you know what i mean like i feel like he was kind of like the most interesting person to me and i probably wanted to like try and understand him more or something i don't know maybe or maybe not i i don't really know um but so i think maybe that's that's part of it and then like yeah i just i i I love one of those people that whatever limited exposure I had to film or television when I was young, I loved like fucking drama.

1:02:42Like I, I loved conflict. I mean, I did. I loved when shit was like, you know, this seems very bad. Whatever's about to happen. He's very bad. Oh no, you are a fucked up person. I was fucked up. How could you have done that? I think that that was interesting to me. And I think I also wanted to like try to, I think I always was like curious. I think I didn't believe that there was like, like good people and bad people. So like, I was like interested, like, okay, well, this is somebody that's made these like mistakes or bad decisions. How could that, how could that happen? Like, what are those, what led to that?

1:03:22I think it's just like a curiosity about that maybe. yeah um and then some of it honestly straight up some of it also is like it's not like i walk in and it's like the full fucking salad bar and i can choose whatever there's like a full thing and then they come in they're like you have you can actually just from here to there you can have those four options you go but what about there you go no no you don't that's not for you so part of it is like get in where you fit in right part of it is like i had a face that just oftentimes looked criminal from like very, from a very young age. I noticed that like when I went into the store with my friends, I was the one that was followed around by security.

1:04:03They like, were like, and I didn't understand why, but at some point I think I kind of realized I was like, oh, okay. So I'm going to, I'm getting these, these parts and like, yeah, I'm the guy in the master. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, or, you know, playing Skeletor in the He-Man commercial, not He-Man. Oh, that's what you're saying. You're like, oh, this is kind of interesting. Yeah. I mean, so part of it is like, that's just also the reality, right? And there's things where you're like, oh, but I can do that. I want to do that. And they're like, no, you can't. And in some ways, maybe they're right.

1:04:39There's also like a point where you're like, okay, how do I, how do I achieve that thing that I'm chasing there in this, in this thing? Like maybe that's the better route for me. Like maybe that's the more honest thing. And like, I'm chasing an idea that I think that somebody maybe has of me as an actor and I want to dispel that. No, what do you, who, that's not what's important. um but maybe it's valuable to like chase that quality but through this this character's experience um that's fascinating dude like the joker yeah like i could totally see exactly what you're talking about like and i'm thinking a lot of times in life we have this we're chasing an idea of ourselves or a projection that we thought someone else had of us or even just the um um the archetype i can't even freaking remember that word dude from freaking science or whatever the archetype of what we think something is you know like the high school quarterback or the prom queen yeah and for our whole life we're like instead of being like well why don't i just fucking put on this comfortable shoe that fits or why don't i try to be the quarterback but he's in the fucking school play and he doesn't have a football right yeah and he's a fucking lives in a dungeon or whatever and he has a hunchback.

1:06:04Yeah, because it's probably good to like challenge yourself and challenge expectations, right? To not just go like, oh, I guess I'm just that and I'll just be that, right? Like there was, I think I did have an ambition, but really my ambition was about like an experience. I felt like I don't want my experience to be limited. Like that's not fair. that I don't want to just play this role in this way. Like, I want, my appetite was bigger than that. Like, it was bigger than I think what I was told. I remember, like, I remember when I was young, I remember doing this movie and one of the other actors was talking to the director and he was like, wouldn't it be cool if, you know, Joaquin did, you know, this kind of movie, you know, kind of like so-and-so.

1:07:00and he mentioned this other actor that was like my peer who was like, like the actor. Right. And the director was like, yeah, but I mean, Marquinhos no so-and-so. Yeah. And, and he was like, and, and the other actor was like, dude, that's so fucked up. The director was like, oh no, no, I just, I mean that in the best way. Like you're a character actor. He's no Fred Armisen. Yeah. Character actor, yeah, it's like, it's like kind of code for like, you can't really, like you're never going to really get there, but you'll work and um and that fucking pissed me off but here's the thing but it pissed me off because i was like no i i have more like that's not um there's more that will come out that will come out of me and i just um but i think i ultimately appreciate it because it made me go like well how do i find that way like how do i find more and and yeah i'm not going to be able to get in this door and like yeah i shouldn't play the quarterback like it doesn't make sense like if i walked out then you're going like well this team unless it's like yeah the defense is going to be on the field a lot yeah if this guy's a fucking quarterback what's going to be unless is like some 80s school comedy like kids comedy where like they're a disaster yeah you know maybe that maybe that version of it yeah or unless they like siphon in a unique quarterback from another realm kind of right and his thing is by the way let's not give away too much because maybe this is something we should we should work on but no i i think there was something else you said in there and I forgot what it was a second ago, but it was really profound about, or it was as profound as people can be in a fucking motel somewhere.

1:08:56It's a hotel. You're right, actually. Well, just because in case they're listening. No, you're right. You're right. Actually, I don't want them being upset. This is a very famous hotel where a lot of fucking important people have overdosed. Right, exactly. A lot of people die here. And that is true. We're at the Chelsea Hotel, and it is very unique and fun. And this is a great place to be whenever you're in New York City, I think. You're tricking me now, dude. No, no, no. You set me up, dude. I didn't set you up at all. No. I, for real, had paranoia. And I was like, I don't want to be the person who's talking shit about them.

1:09:35But Motel Chelsea also. It kind of sounds dope, to be honest. Motel Chelsea? Yeah. It sounds better than Hotel Chelsea. Oh, it sounds like somebody my dad met. You know what I'm saying? That's a problem too, dude. Sorry. So anyways. No, it's all fun. But I think you said exactly what you wanted to say there. And I think it's interesting. Yeah. Because I think it pertains just even outside of acting is how can we do more? How or like, how can I find a way to apply myself to this thing? How do I adjust like what is a new way to do something? if I want to get to my goal and if it's even going to be possible, is there another route, right?

1:10:19Like rerouting when your app says that, it's kind of like that, which I think is something that people do when they are, when they really have a goal that they want to try and attain, you know, I just think it's interesting. Yeah. It's like, of course, right. Resistance, right. It's like resistance is important. And, you know, I was just reading about dinosaurs, my kid. And you're like, oh, shit. Motherfuckers were like, hold on. There's a very large dinosaur. It's got big teeth. It's nasty. It's mean. What do I do? I'm a fucking vegetarian dinosaur. What do I do? And just evolution is like, oh, you start growing spikes out of your back or fucking horns and shit.

1:11:05And it's just like it's a reaction to the environment. those motherfuckers it took millions of years to like react to change and to evolve and so sometimes when you're like oh yeah the director was mean to me like yeah well it's fucking nothing comparative comparatively right so it's just yeah i think kind of meeting the challenge in some way is like trying to get to a place of appreciating the resistance yeah um and reacting to the I don't know what I'm saying about dinosaurs. No, because most of the life is, but I think it's fascinating to think how badass a fucking vegan or vegetarian a fucking brontosaurus was.

1:11:46Brontosaurus is big. That was the solution. It just got, like, bigger. Who is the biggest vegetarian dinosaur? Let's give them a little bit of shine here. You know? And I'm sure Josh Brolin will get to play them in a movie. But we won't. This is the brontosaurus dip dip. Oh, the dreadnought us. Look at that limousine. I have not read about him. How long have you been a vegan for? Vegetarian, vegan? Vegan since I was three and a half years old. That's what's been a whole part of your life. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You know what I do like sometimes? Radishes. Yeah, I just had some. You know what I just made yesterday?

1:12:34I made radishes and jalapenos together. Fantastic. Lemon, salt. I like having some salt and water. I like fasting recently. I've been doing it a lot. Have you? Really? What did you do? Just nothing. Just water? Yeah, just water and a little bit of salt. Put some salt in your hand. But you even look forward to the salt. I would even go to the gym. Oh, wait. You went to the gym? I would go to the gym. I'd get home. Like, when I get home, I'm having my fucking pinch of salt. How long do you fast for? 73 hours is the longest that I did so far, but I'll just do a day. Like I did like 36 hours the other day.

1:13:08I feel like I'm doing like a day a week now, 24. Yeah, it's great. It's good for you. But are you sure you should work out while you're doing it? No, I'm not sure. Maybe look into that. I don't know. But I remember doing that, and then I didn't feel good. And maybe it was that. I want to ask you one more question before you leave, because I feel like we've had a nice conversation, so I don't want to push the bounds of it. Oh, push it. It's okay. You can do whatever you want, man. It's fine. Do you feel like, do you, did you like being a son? Is that a weird question? Is that I like being a son?

1:13:44Because I never thought about it. I just thought about it. Like as we're sitting here thinking about that, we were both, you know, we have that in common. A lot of people have in common. Yeah. I got three siblings, one boy and two girls. One boy and two girls. Yeah. Well, I was the second son.

1:14:03and my brother was like quite a force and was definitely like, I don't know, was like mythical or Shakespearean or maybe it was because he died or something, but he was like the first son and he was incredible and he was such a force within our family. He was kind of like the guiding light in some ways. um he's one that acted first and we used to sing on the streets and he played guitar and kind of like oversaw he was like a lead singer he was the lead singer and he was the guitarist and kind of oversaw everybody and he and he was such a uh like a a strong but gentle force within the family so i think in some ways if i'm honest a lot of my life like growing up i kind of was like you know like right what am i yeah look at it like you're like and not not a way of like oh this sucks just kind of like no yeah like cool like feel secure yeah it's just handled that's like care of yeah everything's fucking handled at last yeah for sure i got three sisters and um and they're also like amazing and and strong in the best way and like you know forces like each of them just brilliant um and and i probably yeah for like yeah i don't know that i um you know i just i didn't i never i never felt any weight or pressure about like being you know son or anything like that you know um maybe it falls on the first child a lot i never thought about that i'm i'm sure um i don't know if it fell on him or if he just like took it you know i mean sometimes sometimes it's just like undeniable you know what i mean like like i'm look at the two of us i'm the son sometimes you know he's working freelance over here okay like it's kind of the truth right um and there was no like i never you know we also there was like a four-year age difference between us so i never i never felt those things like you know in movies there's like the brothers are like competing and like angry oh yeah like shakespearean brothers

1:16:29that was funny you didn't intend that to be funny yeah i did not intend that to be funny yeah step it still was our brothers oh thank you yeah i'm trying to think of other brothers anyways um this is good jackson five maybe this is a good that's good um but that's interesting yeah i don't know i was just thinking about being a son because i never really even thought about it myself that much but yeah if you have that brother you kind of have that get out of jail free brother you know you're like oh this this guy's got that dude he's a fucking lead singer i'll be back here you know yeah are you or what i'm the second bro yeah i'm the second son my brother was kind of like went AWOL so I was like oh shit I gotta fucking pick up I gotta like I gotta do some recycling here you know right he's great now but he was just like kind of like rogue you know he was like more of like a like troublemaker just like lost that's what I mean he was like a lost right like a lost guy but now he's great and now he's like my hero he's like you know it's cool to like be able to still be like in like that everything changes over time um what's the age difference two years but yeah he's like a brave i what do i admire about him he has a lot of empathy and he's good for like being patient with me um yeah it's like he has time for me right and that was something that i think growing up in our place it was just like i never i didn't even know it was possible you know but yeah he like he makes time for me He makes time for me.

1:17:55Yeah, that's cool. And I think that that's pretty special. That's good. You know, one thing that you guys talked about in Eddington was, like, whose land it is, right? That was, like, a little bit of a theme. It was kind of a sub-theme, I felt like, with the Native American, and you guys were, like, the county or the township abutted up against Native lands. where do you feel like it's kind of so weird where we are in the world right now because i feel like people are still warring over lands you know you think that's and like there's ice raids like people are getting taken off of lands and like you know i don't know i just feel like sometimes i thought we'd be further along in this i don't really know westerns but i think that that's like a common thing in westerns at least that's the that's the feeling i have when i think about Westerns, it might not be, but just like the idea of like, this is my land and I'm the protector of this land and I will fight for this land.

1:18:50And so I think that is something that comes up in Eddington. And I think that both kind of, both figures, both the Sheriff Joe Cross and the mayor, Ted played by Pedro Pascal, both believe that they're like fighting for the land, fighting for this town and that their idea for this land is the right one. I was really moved by something that you said when you talked about the war on Gaza. And I think that's really courageous to speak about it. And you spoke about it in such an honest way that I just thought was like really beautiful. And it's crazy because like what's going on is absolutely so fucking horrible.

1:19:50There's no justification for fucking children starving to death in a conflict. Like it's that simple, right? You don't have to understand geopolitics or anything like that just to get that. I know there are conflicts all over the world constantly, um but that's something that is uh i'm just it's it's shocking like how um maybe we're afraid to to talk about it um and oftentimes you're made to feel like you're stupid because you don't understand geopolitics and kind of like well i don't have to understand geopolitics like you have to understand like human rights yeah basic healing it feels like to me you You know, for me, I don't know.

1:20:36I don't care about, I don't know if I care about, I mean, but it's hard to say I live on a land that's kind of been taken from other people. But here I am saying like about geopolitics and I understand that. But then at what point do you not say something, you know, like, yeah. And we're in a time and just like in Eddington kind of like, and I'm not comparing like any of these two things, but people are watching things on their phones and you can see for the first time some of this like travesty in real time and it just fucking hurts man it's like and then you're like am i crazy for not saying anything but then here we are on a land where you know people are living in allotments now native american allotments and that sort of you know um yeah and that's that's a great deal of pressure and and just honestly just you saying that makes me fucking feel like you know under pressure so like okay yeah what you know what am i what am i talking about but i think sometimes not acknowledging it is is wrong um obviously i don't have the fucking solution but war always fucking sucks right that conflict sucks but what's happening it just is crazy to me crazy to me just like just the food distribution that's happening now oh yeah they're locking they're like hiding it from people or that they're tricking people or that they're they have to go so far to get it it seems and why is it like why is it not the the organizations that are typically overseeing that and have you know half a century of experience or decades of experience in the different ngos and they're not the ones that are overseeing the food distribution it's a it's a new um organization the gaza humanitarian foundation.

1:22:19Um, and, and so that is, um, yeah, it's just really troubling and, and heartbreaking. So it just feels like, how do we not acknowledge that? And, you know, in some way. And so, and I think that you did and I, um, I just like, I don't know, like when you did that, if you were like, if that made you nervous doing it or. Yeah. I think I felt scared. Yeah. Well, I was, it was, I think that it was it was courageous and it was meaningful and I think it matters and and um so you know I'm I'm straight up I'm really here today because I was I was so moved by what by what you said and just like the courage to do that yeah I was wondering why you came to be honest um to be very honest in some ways or not not in some ways but but thank you man I can't even believe that you saw that and uh yeah not thank you but like yeah I think that shit just like I don't know.

1:23:15It's just like it's crazy to think like I'm laying in bed at night and I'm warm and I'm okay. And to think that there's like some kid who's never going to put these pieces together, you know. And even the kids who have to be alive are the people who still have to be alive. What life do they have, you know. Like what life, like, I don't know. It makes me like, I don't know. And then you start to feel ashamed of your own existence in some ways. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. You almost feel ashamed to be alive in some ways in a little bit of a way. Does it make any sense, do you think? Yeah, I understand the feeling.

1:23:49Yeah, it's a feeling. I totally understand that feeling. But thank you, man. Thank you for, well, yeah, not thank you, but yeah, I don't know. It's interesting, you know. But I think it's important today that you do say something like you say, you know, and not to think that this isn't affecting people, you know. I think, yeah, that we're human beings. we absorb what's going on, you know, and we watch the actors that are out there in the world and it affects us. It affects children. What are kids doing or seeing those things on TikTok? What happens to their brains and stuff, you know? Yeah. So, but no, I'm grateful to be able to be in a place today and in a country where we can still say something, you know, and it's not mandated by some other power and who knows if that's coming soon or what's happening.

1:24:39So. Do you have some inside information? I have nothing. Okay, I promise. I thought you were looking at me like you knew some shit. No. Okay. Well, that's good. Is there a... You know, I was thinking the other day, I missed Philip Seymour Hoffman. I missed him. I miss his acting. Is there somebody that you miss?

1:25:08like they're acting or like a Philip Seymour Hoffman I'm trying to think Michael Landon I miss he did Little House on the Prairie yeah of course and then what was the Heaven Highway to Heaven with Victor French because I think that was one that I tried out for several times you're lying no I'm sure I'm sure God yeah it's definitely it's definitely in my memory but that was one of the shows when i was a kid that was that was popular yeah dude wow he yeah he was something special he was a really special so he was this what's happening oh in between what's this thing here says 1984 and then r.i.p what is well apparently he took the highway to heaven he was in the hov He's laying in that picture.

1:26:00You know, that's all we can do. Oh, shit. Anyway. Hey, listen, you're going back out on the road, right? Yeah. Is it fun or is it grueling? It was fun. I think I'm ready to stop doing this hour material. It's changed a lot. It's probably 60 % different than when I started. So it's evolved a lot and adjusted. but I'll be happy to get it done when I feel like we've gone to all the places that we can and you want everybody to have a chance to see it if they want but I'll be happy to have a chance for my brain to settle down and not always have to feel like I have to go do this thing every other week or every couple of weeks which is a blessing but still it's just this thing on the calendar it's almost like you're always having to take a vacation and so I'll be happy when that's done so I can see what else do I want to think about and do like you know uh we like i work with this group called valor that does like sex and love addiction intimacy disorder stuff like that so i want to like just have just have a little bit more time to do stuff that's not just focused on myself maybe i guess i don't know so it's it sounds um i i imagine it would be nerve-wracking i can't imagine having to do that really yeah yeah like getting up like getting up yeah like standing it's like just standing makes that makes me fucking nervous and then but then you walk around you have a microphone and you say shit and it's you could do it man dude i'll tell you now this is i think this is the only way to end this is just these these boots are made for joaquin okay so i think we have to Perfect.

1:27:46Dude, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for spending time with me today. Thank you for thinking with me today. And I just appreciate it. It was nice of you. And yeah, you just do a great job of being able to create things that the rest of us can't to make us feel. And so that's a gift that you have. And I feel lucky that you have it. And so thank you for just bearing that gift. Oh, man. Thank you. That's... Well, thank you. Thank you. It's just too. I know. I just get embarrassed. I just want to go. I want to dissect everything you're saying. That's nice about me. Tell you why you're wrong.

1:28:27Yeah. But I won't do that. And look, let's just thank Motel Chelsea here. Thanks for having us. Epic. Yeah. Sweet here. And cheers to our dads, man. They're out there. Cheers to those guys. We don't. My dad, we don't know where he is still. So that's. We're not sure. Okay. somewhere. TBD, guys. Yeah. You know, good luck. I hope you find your way. Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind. I found I can feel it in my bones, But it's gonna take