#608 - Jim Norton

24:11But he's on, he goes into so much. You're so bizarre. By the end of some of his stories, you're so deep. It's like, what a great brain. Like, watching him, we've been out on the road, and we got a bunch more dates coming up, and just watching his brain work, like, each bit is crafted. Like, some of these things are such ludicrous thoughts, and then they just wind up, the crowd agrees with the thought, and they go into this strange area. It's so much fun to watch, like, how creative a stand-up can be. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, and it's so inspiring. Watching both of you guys, man, there's moments where I'm watching the people in the crowd, and a lot of times it feels like it's a guy and they usually are holding their girl pretty close.

24:51It's kind of like they convince the girl, oh, we're going to have a great time. You're going to love these guys. And they're doing extra. Like, I'm going to put my arm around my girl and make sure she knows we're here together tonight. Even though he can feel them, like maybe really some disdain at some of the material. I feel people pull back sometimes, which is, you know what I mean? I talk about certain things. I feel people, but that's what it is. It is what it is. But, you know, one thing I avoid doing, like, I never preach politics. It's so boring to lecture the audience. Oh, I agree. Oh, my God.

25:26I don't need to convince them of anything. Yeah. Like, I want them to have a good time and hopefully see my point. Even if they don't agree with it, I want them to know why I got there. And that's it. Like, you can't try to change. No one's going to walk out of my fucking show educated. Yeah. It's not my job. I blink a lot. I dropped out of high school. No one's coming to me to teach them a lesson. Ice coffee, cold coffee. Cold coffee. Dude, you had the one, I don't know if it was in Unconceivable or if it was on stage last night, it was about the military and some of them aren't mentally well.

25:57That was last night, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, that's who we want over there. You think I want the fucking... I don't want mentally, what you would consider mentally healthy. I don't want that. You had the nervous college kid creeping around with his little gun. Yeah, I want the fucking completely deranged person. The craziest, you think somebody is the more likely I want them to be sent over with a fucking weapon. Yeah, you do. You face that. Like, but a lot of it's common sense pushback against where like, I think progressives were very crazy. And I also think some of it's bigotry. Like people look at like, it's just one thing.

26:28It's like anything in life. It's there's, there's look at this. Then you look at that. And then you look at that. Everything is an individual thing to be looked at. There's not one answer that covers all of it. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'll have people ask me about how could I, you know, how could I probably lean more conservative in the last election, but then also be a Palestine advocate, you know? It's like, I don't see how any of those things are connected. Like, I would never attach myself to one specific, like, so I'm this way for everything. That seems crazy to me. It's because people are dumb and they masquerade as these real brave truth tellers.

27:06But a lot of people are very frightened of pushback from the group that they belong to. So they do everything lockstep with the group they belong to. That's true. You can have mixed feelings about things. Like you can be an advocate for Palestine and then you can also like AOC and you can vote for Trump. Like you can have mixed feelings about things. People just want to say you're here or you're there, but that's their own fear of being left out alone. They're afraid of being isolated. So they need the group. They're joiners, but they're masquerading as brave truth tellers. It's annoying. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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30:08To learn more about Valor Recovery, please visit them at www.valorrecoverycoaching.com or email them at admin at valorrecoverycoaching .com. Thank you. so since you ended up marrying a trans woman cut that out sorry

30:35that's what she said too probably cut that off um that's where i was trying to go it's almost there yeah i messed it up yeah that's okay um if she wanted to she could if you i'd miss her

30:53Yeah, dude. Do you think we are getting more like, do you think we're getting more, I don't want to say depraved, but it's more in one view would be depraved if you looked at like these evangelical type of views or like, you know, like people that came over on the Mayflower, like sexually they'd see us probably as more depraved. Sure. But do you feel like we're just evolving or just adjusting into different, more sexual norms? Yeah, I think so. And it's also like the depravity. Like, I don't believe people's both like I don't believe the people, some of them, sure. But the majority of the ones who are scolding and going, how could you do that?

31:30And then you realize that in D.C., these prostitutes are going, you know, how many of these senators I fuck or how many of these congressmen I fuck? Like, so I don't I don't buy any of it. Like there are people who live that way. But as far as, again, a moral lecture or a sexual acceptability lecture from some, I just, I don't believe any of them and I don't respect any of their opinions. But yeah, I think we are more open than we used to be, sure. Yeah. I mean, what's considered the norm now is different. I mean, back in the Mayflower days, if you were fucking gay, they'd probably hit you with a rod.

32:01I don't know what they'd do, but it wasn't good. Yeah. They weren't happy to see you. But I bet they had, I bet there was low-key a lot of support for gay men on those boats because you're on the ship for a long time. In high stockings. I mean, come on, are you going to tell me? Are you going to tell me Miles Standish didn't get his asshole played with?

32:20I hope that was his name. It had to have been, dude. But yeah, you're telling me you're out there drinking. How many women were on the Mayflower? Let's take a Gantt because that's going to help. I'm going to guess very few or none. Or none. I think that's a great point. How many women were on the Mayflower? Probably none of them. Probably all men. The number of women, most sources agree that 18 adult women began the Mayflower journey. Only four or five women were still alive by the spring of 1621. Oh, my God. I guess there was a long line outside each door. Yeah. Can you imagine that, though? Yeah.

32:56Hiding. Pregnancy. Three of the women, Elizabeth Hopkins, Susanna White, and Mary Allerton, were pregnant during the voyage. And the crazy part is there's no way to prove whose baby it was back then until it's born and you look at it and go, oh, yeah, it's your baby. Because there was no DNA testing. There was no, so 10 guys fuck you and one of them gets you pregnant. Oh, well. God, can you imagine, though, guys would just be trying to get you drunk so that they could then go approach your wife? Or they would just be trying to get somebody else, like some other guys, get them and another man so drunk that they could just pretend that they weren't gay for a little while?

33:32For a little while. Yeah. Oh, and have sex with the woman. Or no, jerk off the man or have sex with the man, but just be like, oh, Suzanne, just keep saying a woman's name during it or something. Oh, and pretend like by that point, you hope that you wouldn't like it. Because if you're fucking a guy, he's got to know that you're enjoying it and vice versa. You hope that you wouldn't have to be thinking about a woman just to convince yourself. But you might have to be like, what's going on here? You know, like there's some, I'm sure, like astute white males or whatever who are like, you know, in some of these, you know, who are probably getting money from APAC or whatever, who are definitely, you know, who are like banging a guy like, what's happening here?

34:13This is, you know, like a tremors from an earth. Yeah. Man, the windows or something. Yeah. What's going on there? Yeah. Yeah. No, I understand. What's going on? I'm going to come in this guy. Oh, my God. How did this happen? I must have fallen. Veto. Yeah. but yes in a way you're right because i remember it's fun when i was a kid when i first started jerking off you know i would always try to think of girls but sometimes i would think of boys and if i thought of a boy i was so filled with shame that when i came i would throw a woman in there like i would like press the button the last slide would be a girl's face like oh i just straight you know it was just it was such self-delusion like right but yeah that in that way you're right it's all about shame and how to how to stave off the shame you feel about whatever it is yeah and our society does adjust so much of that and but it is interesting like you know i go to recovery meetings i'm in sla recovery and stuff like that and so and it's interesting because a lot of it's intimacy disorders porn addiction like there's so many things like um you know a lot of my i'd be like call me or stay away like that was like i would want something like a woman to be close to me but then when they got close to me i didn't want them you know just like a lot of like just anarchy.

35:25It's being addicted to the hunt as well. It's being addicted to the lead up to something happening and then when it's happening, you're right, you're like, get away. Okay, now because the lead up was the high. The lead up of the thing and now that you're here, okay, now it's time for the next drug run, so to speak. Yeah, I definitely get that. Yeah, maybe that's what it was sometimes. For me it was. Like I would literally look at hookers all night. I would ride around for hours listening to Art Bell on On NPR? No, he was on 770 or 660 overnight. Was it Russell Limbaugh? No, no. Art Bell was a guy.

35:58He was like in Pahrump, Nevada, and he was like very big into like UFOs. Oh, yeah. That's that guy? He was the best. Oh, and he passed away? He did die, but I would ride around the meatpacking district and look at prostitutes for hours. I would do the comedy cellar and then ride around. But the ritual for me was looking and talking, and most times I wouldn't pick up. I would just ride around and look and be in that space. So a lot of times it's the whole idea of doing something even more than doing it. Like sometimes you do it, but other times it's just the idea of it. Oh, dude. Yeah. Would there be certain things like during the interview process, like with it, when you chat with them, we just kind of say, and you, every now and then you just hear a certain thing.

36:36You're like, Oh, I'll spend more time with this person. Oh, when I would talk to them, you know, if I was attracted to them, sure. But if I thought they might be a cop, I was so ritualistic. Like they would have to approach the left side of my window. Like there was weird ritualistic things that had to be clicked like any addiction, right? There's this weird, this box is checked, that box is checked and then I can proceed. But if it didn't happen, it would, one box wasn't checked. It would wreck the whole experience. But yeah, that, that whole, that that's addiction is so crazy. Sex is hard. Like porn, I still struggle with porn.

37:08I have a hard time. I go into it. I come out of it. It's, it's hard. I know. I just hate the way that I feel after I noticed finally, I hate the way I feel the next day after watching and I just feel a little bit like dissolved. I feel like a, like a, like the day before I was kind of a bit of a Rubik's cube and all the color that were matching on the sides and everything. And then the next day I just feel kind of broken and I, it takes a day for me to get my energy back organized. That's a good way to put it. Dissolved. That's a, that's a really good way to put it. Like you feel like kind of like it's a, it's a collapsed feeling like, and dissolved is the perfect way.

37:42You don't feel strong and whole. And it's not a moral thing. It's just, it's all that weird chemicals from your own drug administrator. You know what I mean? It's not attractive. It's just me twiddling my nip. Fucking chimp.

38:00And oh, if you had to watch a video of yourself jerking off over all the years, you'd be like, somebody shut this guy down. Somebody put this kid out of his misery. Yeah, what is he doing? this is long and unpleasant. It'd be like the director's cut of apocalypse now. We're like, I get why they took that stuff out. We didn't need the fucking dinner with the French people. Sucked. Uh, yeah. If I had, if you had to watch yourself jerk, especially if you could add up all the time. Yeah. The amount of hours or weeks or months, whatever it could immediately. I bet you'd quit immediately. And it is wasted time.

38:29Oh yeah. Um, it really is. Oh, the waste. And, but I would do the same thing. Like if I would look at like, I would get high on cocaine. I would look at hookers online. Oh yeah. Yeah. and I would like just be looking I would look at the photo and I would be like ah you know and then I would barter I was like just poor and I would barter and then you're and then but then when someone would come over I would often take the money put it out of the door give it to them and have them go home I was too nervous to have somebody like yeah in my presence one time a lady came over and she had she said that she had to get a brain tumor taken out or something and i was like well you know and i just sat with her for a little while and talked about talked about some stuff and then just she just went home yeah it sometime when you you also realize like they're real people and then you realize like why am i doing this like i used to love talking to women after like i used to love the conversation afterwards like after sex or whatever we'd just and chat or if I would drop them off we would talk and I realized it was just it's a lot of loneliness like you're just lonely and you don't know how else to to to meet somebody I didn't know how to go out and talk to people so that was a way of meeting people that shit I don't miss like being married the one thing I I like like I can just call my wife and talk to like you know I mean like we actually it's it's a nice stable thing to have in your life like a person who you really like and loving somebody yeah yeah but I mean you have to like them too it's not enough to love somebody like you have to like talking to them yeah and you have to enjoy and we have our dumb dog and i'll just be on facetime with her and the dog and i'm like this is the life i want the dog shits all over it makes me furious but it's still a nice life yeah you know i mean compared to what was going on before which was very lonely and isolated yeah it does it's just interesting you get kind of like trapped in patterns over time and when you're a comedian it feels like you're you don't ever have to grow or i don't know if it's a comedian i don't know I've struggled at certain points in my life to grow up.

40:31You know, I didn't realize for years that I hadn't been growing up. Really. I was kind of trapped, I think for, and like a child's ways in a lot of times, but they were working out. Okay. Because we're in comedy and it's like, you don't have a ton of responsibility. It's all on you. You have to show up. You, you know, it's like, you know, it felt almost like a kid could do it. And, but you also, there's something about that that is good too. Like, cause our impression of somebody growing up and getting older was like, you go up, you retire, you get the gold watch and then you go into a home and you're finished.

41:02There was a process and there was a definitive end at the end of the tunnel but when you always feel like I don't have to grow up and follow that pattern you always feel like I don't know what's ahead of me. You don't see the end Wait, say that part again, I want to hear it. You don't feel like you can always see the end. You don't know what's ahead because you're not following the pattern of people growing up. So it makes everything more exciting? More exciting, yeah, and you feel like there's an endless amount of time. I don't know which direction this is going to go in. That's the terrifying part of doing things the way like your parents do it is that you see A, B, C, D.

41:36But if you're kind of stuck between A and B in some way, you have no idea where you're headed yet. And it still feels like the end is not directly in front of me. And that makes you also continue to feel young because it's that same feeling that you always had when you were young. Yeah, it's kind of, it is. It's a way, and I think it's a healthy way to be. I don't think it's crazy. As long as you're paying your bills and you're, you're decent to the person that you're with. Like, you know, it's a fun life. Like we, we fought to not have a boss, to not have a retirement age. Like that, this is the dream life.

42:03This is what I wanted to do. Sometimes I'll be in a hotel, man. I'm like, shut up. You fucking asshole. How many of your friends have to get up and go to a warehouse on Tuesday morning? Yeah. And you're mad. You have to drive to Asheville. Shut up. Yeah. Like, I mean, this is like what you wanted and you got it. So with, even with great jobs, there's annoying parts of it yeah that's the truth and it's fun it's fun you're gonna get to go to ashville that place is amazing did i remember the first time that's one of the true the the blessings i think of having worked in this job is like like i got to go to lacrosse wisconsin dude blew my mind what is it it's a town in wisconsin is like this beautiful like hill like kind of small mountain right on the edge of it and it's just amazing man it's like we were right there like the weekend before Halloween.

42:48So you had like all the kids being like brought home from their parents after school and their costumes and the leaves are all fall. It just looked like you couldn't, it was like the perfect place to grow up is what it looked like. Do you want kids? Yeah, I want to have kids. You do? Yeah, I just think I would like to do it. I would like, I think it'll help me like, just not think about me. You know, you start to get exhausted of yourself. Yes. And they say that's the one, that's the thing. Kids open up that thing. And I know that by not having kids, and I've never wanted kids. I don't feel like I'm missing.

43:18No, never. Does Nikki want them? She would love to adopt. She would love to adopt. I could see you getting something cool. I could see me dying and then her doing that, which is great. I told her like, when I drop dead, do what you want. Sell my stupid kiss posters and get yourself a kid. But I've never wanted it. I don't feel like, I don't dislike kids, but I don't feel it. But when I hear somebody who wants them like that, it does supposedly open up a part of you and everyone I know who has kids says it. Like it's a good thing. And you start thinking about something other than yourself and your purpose is other than yourself.

43:52Yeah. For me, it's I haven't had that. So maybe that's why I'm a half miserable fucking idiot in my 50s on Japanese kiss poster auction sites like a fucking idiot instead of worrying about my kid's soccer game. You know what I mean? Maybe that's maybe you're right. That's probably it opens up that part's healthier. going back to like um if you had if you were able to if you're is there part of you like because you said that if i died then uh my wife could go ahead and get if she wants to get kids and that's fine is there a little part of you that's like that still feels like having a family in a weird way like at least i was able to help and support somebody and create an environment for them to have a family like in a weird way does that make any sense no but it's not when you say it sounds really nice but it's never occurred to me like again I feel like with my wife and a small dog it's such a different life than I ever had like it's a hundred percent different but I feel like that's my family okay got it but you're right like I am facilitating for someone to have them if she wants them because I tell her I'll be dead long before you like so do what you want when I'm dead I don't care sell my shit and you know find some young fucking Latin guy and you know have a great life and she would believe me while they were still powdering my face in the casket getting fucked they should have a tattoo of you on the guy's back though that would be kind of nice or on his stomach so she really has to look at it when they're intimate no she'll do what she wants I just never wanted it man I don't have anything against it I respect it all my friends who do it are happy they did it I watched Bobby Kelly go like from being a single guy and then you know long term relationship son loves he loves his life like that Like it's just not for me.

45:38Like I see it and I'm happy for my friends, but I don't envy it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like when I'm around children, I never go like that instinct in me is never, and it doesn't pull me in that direction. Even around my nephews who I love very much, I would love them and hang out with them, but it never made me want to go have a kid. Got it. But I don't know. Maybe that's selfish, right? Maybe I'm a selfish, maybe. Maybe it's selfish also to have them. I wouldn't have them just in order to get me out of my own ego jail that happens sometimes. I mean, I know it's like, yeah, I would like to be able to have like, I think part of me is like, I would like to be able to create a safe experience for a child in the world.

46:20Because I don't know if I felt like I had that a lot of times. I felt like I want to try my best to fill in some of those holes that I didn't have to, because I think our lineage kind of deserves that somewhat. and I think since I really love that childhood stuff and a lot of like the emotional side of it, I think I could probably service that pretty well. Right. So I would like to like respectfully try my hand at that with a woman who is a very loving mom, who wants to be a mom and with a kid who is willing to, you know, just be my son or daughter. Well, you would actually like, you know, because you have this, like you said, we don't grow up.

46:59there's a lot of time to have fun with a kid too like you know what i mean like in our life it does afford us a lot of things that most people can't do like you can book a gig on the road if you want to go to hawaii you book hawaii and you could bring your family like most people can't do that right they have to schedule it around like i'm not doing radio for the first time in 20 years and it's so weird not having a schedule it's so weird not going okay well labor day memorial day like this is when we get off this when we don't get off to just be able to go on the road and do what I want to do is a very foreign feeling.

47:28I love it. It's nice. And having a kid, you could do that. You could just book a place. Not that, you know, having a kid and having a radio show are the same thing. But yeah, I don't know. You got to get up early. Yeah, you're right. It kind of sucks. You kind of don't want to look at the people you're talking to. Yeah, maybe it's exactly like having a kid. It's like any other partnership. Yeah, the food sucks. The food sucks. Yeah, the hours are kind of annoying. You got to wake up when you don't want to wake up. You're fucking cranky through most of it. Yeah. Yeah. Your partner's there. Fuck them.

47:58You know? Yeah. Cause they made it in before I did. You're like, you're happy to be here. Aren't you? Yeah. But I do, I do kind of miss it a little bit. Like I missed the structure of it, but I also like not having it. Oh, it was so much fun when you guys had, I mean, I only got to go when it was open. Actually I came when it was Jim and Sam too. Okay. But I never got to go when Anthony was there. Yeah. But it was fun. Like, I mean, that was like some of the first times I ever got to be in a place where like people got to hear my voice that were like paying attention. Yeah. like we talked to Bobby Kennedy on that show on you guys' show which was crazy because he and I became friends years later which was wild he was in studio with us wasn't he like for some reason did Robert Kennedy just call in?

48:40oh it was a phone call I thought I saw a picture of all of us together and I'd never heard of him I thought he'd been like electrocuted or fucking you know or people were fucking him while he was talking or whatever like I didn't know what was going on those are really bizarre reasons for the voice Yeah, wait, is that him right there? Oh, never mind. I thought I saw that. That's myself. I can't, I don't have my glasses. That's me. And Florentine and Opie. And yeah, and that's Robert Kennedy. I didn't remember that. Look how skinny I was. No, I know back then I look like a weird Photoshopped version of what I am now.

49:14You look almost feminine there a little bit. You look kind of like a white Charlemagne kind of. That is funny. And he would hate that. he knows I think he's a handsome guy no no no but nobody wants to be Jim Norton to be like yeah you kind of resemble Jim Norton but that you're right it is like a little my wife hates me like that she's like you fucking look like a little twink you look sick I don't like it she's like you're not a fucking small you're a medium she makes me she never wants me to be like that again but that's how I want to be and it does look kind of sickly like when I see that like my neck my head And I was so depressed at that point in my life.

49:55So I wasn't even happy. You seemed like you were doing great. And then Daryl Strawberry, that's the day I came in so coked up. Were you coked up that day? Oh, bro, that started my – that day I made a story for Ari Shafir's show. And that story is when people started paying attention to my comedy. Oh, really? Yeah, I ended up in a taxi cab, driving a taxi cab, high on cocaine. the driver had picked me up there was a girl in the cab we're dropping her off she kind of rejected me i didn't like make like i was just like she was laying in my lap i was trying to like give her a kiss you know because you feel like she was flirting she laid in my lap and like so i like you know whatever and i didn't get be aggressive but she like was like what are you doing and so then i felt some rejection she she got dropped off where she was going it was just me and the driver and i was like let's go get some coke you know we can get some cocaine and then it was like next two hours later i'm driving he has a hooker he's bought hookers for us he's in the back of the taxi we're up in like washington washington heights washington heights yep and i've i have to be at the radio station the next morning at like 6 30 i get dropped off at my hotel at 5 50 right it's a couple blocks away i shower and i walk over there dude and it was the scariest walk ever because every moment of the walk was so scary and i just was like rattled right and i got inside and i sat on the show i couldn't even talk i don't remember daryl strawberry was the guest and i'd always thought he was like this drug addict and here he was pure as a driven snow sober he's clean and sober i think he still is i hope he still is but yeah he can't joe torrey told us about him about the plane going in it was really bad turbulence and everyone was panicking but daryl was reading his bible in the back so like he turned around and like has this sober life and it's weird being fucked up around somebody that's sober.

51:47It's uncomfortable. And I'd always thought he was this way. And I'd always thought I was kind of like toe in the line and do, you know, straight. And then it was this moment where everything, and that's when I got into recovery rooms after that. Really? Yeah. Yeah. That was literally the two days after that show. Like, you know, the Opie and Anthony show is, it was a different thing. Like it was an opiate. I did what we could. It's hard to follow the Opie and Anthony show. I mean, it's a, it's a hard act to follow. especially when it was uprooted without any one of us wanting it to be uprooted but man I look back at that show and I'm really glad I was a part of that there was some really funny shit on that show great comics coming through everyone being vicious to each other like you know what I mean it was a really there was a lot of fun times on that show that was so fun you got it felt like the luckiest place in the world there was no better call you could get at the time in the country I don't think than to go want to that show and some people didn't even recognize it and that's fine fuck them but to go in there and sit in there with guys de stefano charade small pete davidson mark norman would be in there just like uh everybody vic henley like yeah greg um florin oh jim oh jim florentine my bad yeah yeah just all those guys man that was magical it was fun and it was a good you would see your friends i mean the last time i saw patrice i remember he was on uh he was on uh was on ONA and he was coming in one day and they're like, Hey, Patrice is coming in either Thursday or Friday.

53:15And we were just having an after show meeting and they're like, do you have any preference? And I remember going, Hey, let's do Thursday because I'm traveling Friday. I won't be here. I wanted to see him. And he came in and he did the show. That was the last time I saw him. Like, so it was like, you saw people that you would not have been likely to see coming through friends that were on the road. You would always get to see them cause I'd come in the studio that I miss a lot. being in the center of that. Like, you know what I mean? And, you know, everyone headlines, so you don't see your friends anymore.

53:44You probably go years without seeing guys that you like. Totally. But, you know, there, I would see guys come through. And, yeah, man, I really, I loved those days a lot. It was special. Yeah, I felt like it was. You got to go to, you went to Ozzy's last show? Yeah, me and Jim Florentine. Florentine got me my first paid gig in comedy. He's my oldest friend in comedy. and we knew Sabbath was doing one more show. So we went to London in Birmingham, booked a couple of gigs just to pay for the trip. Yeah. And we did get to go to the show. I'm so happy we went. Yeah? Yeah. And we said hello to Ozzy briefly at the end.

54:22Again, he was very frail at that point. He was in a wheelchair, but we still got to say hello and I'm really happy we got to say hi at least and hey man, I love the show. It was great. Yeah, it was an unbelievable trip. we went to the Black Sabbath house we did a video where the you know you ever see the original Black Sabbath album cover there's a woman in front of this ominous house and we went there and we actually went up and looked inside it was a really it was like you know again with your dumb friend we should have done this 40 years ago the fact that we did this in our late 50s we should both be fucking pushed into a ditch idiots oh dude yeah well there's also shit you get into on the road did you get to see Jack or Kelly or um yes i saw both of them backstage uh jack's awesome i don't know kelly she's a sweetheart and she she actually uh uh you know she told me she was getting married and she was very sweet and jack is always great um and it's funny the day ozzy died i was supposed to be in la doing jack's podcast i was going out after sabbath to la for a day to do the podcast and uh the day before whatever they canceled they're like yeah Ozzy died so you know it sucks nobody was expecting it this soon did you do you feel like like as you get older and people like like heroes start to kind of disappear what is that kind of like you you do see it's almost like I look at us like we're on a production line like you know what I mean like going this way and the more of them that drop off the end you're like oh my turn is coming like but I also am grateful like it makes you grateful like you get to know people you get to meet people you love who's the biggest hero you've met since you've been doing stand-up that you actually got to talk to um that's a good question or even the first one probably chris rock i think really like for comedic hero for sure like getting to meet him was pretty i thought was pretty special chris pratt i really liked getting to meet just because i think there's something really special about him like i think he's a great entertainer but i there's something i think really special about him um are you shocked when they're fans of yours too like if you had anybody that you love who like jason momoa like the other day i was walking through somewhere and this big arm comes out and just pulls me in it was just like two different areas past and there was an open door in between yeah and i was just like oh my god it's and i thought i said it's the guy from shark tank right i fucked up and he just started laughing he was like and he said whatever show it was or whatever um but he was just really nice and like, uh, and he likes your show and he just said, Hey man, I'm a, I just want to let you know that I'm a fan of yours.

56:58And yeah, yeah. Things like that, especially like if it's sometimes like a male figure, I think it like, um, like I didn't have a lot of that when I was a kid, I didn't have like any male ever like being like, you know, I'm a fan of yours or like, I like what you, you know, I just didn't have any of that energy in my life. And so like even little moments like that, like to me are, are big, you know, um, even Dustin Poirier, He and I becoming friends over the years. I love him. He's one of the few guys in the UFC I haven't met. I love Dustin. Yeah. I mean, he kind of changed my life in some ways of like, um, just of like, uh, you know, I, you know, like just checking in what's up, you know, just little things like that.

57:34You know, it makes you, I don't know, like having like a tough figure that that's like. you know i'm looking out for you just something little thing like that even though it's not even It just kind of, it attaches itself to an old place in me that was missing part of a magnet. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And when those click, it like makes you feel something. There's a weird thing too, when you have figures like that in your life who are checking in on you, there's like a weird sense of like accountability in a way. Like even though you're not, you're just friends, but you still don't want your friend to say, hey, how you doing?

58:01And you go, oh, fucking, like you want to at least be doing something good. And your friends can keep you somewhat accountable. Like, you know what I mean? And not in the way that, you know, people use it now. Like you got to be accountable for what you said, like that shitty fucking online gotcha nonsense these children are doing. But I mean like when you're personally just feeling like I don't want to let this guy down and have him think I'm an asshole. Right. I'm going to get out of bed today or I'm going to go do this extra thing. Just little things like that that keep people inspired. And then I think we all do that for each other in some ways, you know.

58:31Like I'll get that feeling sometimes like I'm just going to rattle this off to this person even if they don't hit me back. That's fine. That's right. Just let them know, hey, man, I'm thinking about you. just let you know, you know, I think you're great or I care about you. You're doing great today. Just little things like that, you know? And I think sometimes my brother's like, well, those are things you really wish that people would say to you. And I'm like, that's fine. But I think the feeling I get is that I want to share it with somebody else. So it's, it's still okay. Right. 100%. And you're right.

58:57And the older you get and the more people that die, like the more people like that die of natural cold, overdose, suicide. I mean, we've all, you know, sure. Those things happen. But when they start just dying of like heart issues or things that like are people things, you're like, oh, fuck. So you start telling people you love them more and like, hey, man, I miss you. Like, I'm not afraid to tell guys, hey, I miss you. Because like there's one day you're going to be like, I wish I could say that to this person. So I say it like, you know what I mean? And I when Patrice died, he's just an example.

59:24There's nothing in our relationship that went unsaid. Like there's nothing I wish. Oh, man, I wish he like we had a complete relationship. You know what I mean? like with and you make sure that with your close friends you have complete relationships so there's nothing that you go like oh my god for the rest of my life i'm going to wish that they knew that i felt this way do you know what i mean like and that's really important to me now is like these complete relationships like if bobby not to jinx bobby but if bobby or anthony or one of my dropped it i would i would they they know how i feel right we we know it's not like it went unsaid Do you ever think over time, like, did you think like you were missing relationships like that when you were younger?

1:00:04Like, were you missing like some, like, do you think people could be like missing a connection with like a male figure? And then that gets, that gets, that creates gay curiosity in somebody over time? Does that make any sense to you? Sure. I mean, what creates curiosity in anybody I don't know? Like that could be one thing that causes it, like because you're craving that connection and all of a sudden you're like, well, there's a sexual component to this too, or I want to connect and I think it's sexual. I don't know exactly what like I said what makes me have a pull right towards something but there are things like that that I think can influence it like if you don't have any male figures in your life and you get close to a male figure you may love that person and then not know like wow is this love like I want to lay down with this person or is this just a healthy normal yeah I love you man like why do you have gay curiosity I think there will know the well well there was time in my life where I like didn't like I was just definitely like a late bloomer with a lot of like um like intimacy of any type sure you know like i were like i was just talking about this the other day with a friend but it was like even now if a woman like looks at me it's like or says something nice i got to change the fucking subject i just it's hard for me to be in that moment yeah it's hard for me to be right here and um but yeah growing up i just felt like i didn't get a lot of like uh i didn't have like a strong brotherly or fatherly connection and so like when i started to get relationships like that with friends later on i think it was a part of me for a little bit, it was like, oh, is this like a gate?

1:01:35Like, cause I think I was so desperate for those relationships. So part of me, it had a wager in my head. Like, is this a gay thing or is this just a friend thing? And then I had to learn how much can you just be a friend to somebody without kind of over, not seeming into a, like a homosexual, like space or sexual space, but just like into where it's awkward for them because you're trying to be too much of a friend because you just have never had that sort of friendship. Yeah, but it's a feeling that there's a definitive, like, a moat. Like, if I love one of my friends, like Bobby or any of these guys, Voss, Rotten Voss, who I love, Colin, I love these guys.

1:02:21I mean, I really love them. And I can hug them and tell them I love you, but there's a moat between that and wanting to peck them on the neck. Yeah, for sure. There is a definitive line. And that's what people a lot of times don't. Like any guys who are freaked out by my lifestyle, like that's fucking gross. Like most guys have to understand like the idea of me having sex with you is as disgusting to me as it is to you. Like it makes me nauseous to think about it. Like if any of my friends think I want to jerk off with them, they're very delusional. I don't. None of them. I don't care if they're built like Rogan.

1:02:54None of them would I jerk off with. Yeah. Glazing that ham, brother. None of them. so it's like there is a there is a line between love and really connecting with a friend and feeling intimate with a buddy yeah um which i'm glad as an adult male i'm allowing myself to do like i'm not afraid of that and and and feeling sexual they're completely different yeah things for me but you know that so that yeah there can be a different you can love somebody without having any of that stuff yeah and i think you just hear so much like you know when you're young it's like there's there was always so many like you can't say this around a dude or something a lot of that's kind of changed over the years, especially me.

1:03:30I'm a pretty emotional dude. And so I like thinking about emotions and I like, um, you know, I like kind of examining that stuff. But yeah, I think there was probably, there was probably some times where I was like, is this, am I like, and also I was having so much trouble like communicating with women. So it also to say, well, maybe I'm gay man, you know, maybe I'm gay man. And I, but then I never felt an attraction to men. And so So it was like – but I think some of that's pretty normal. I'm amazed at a lot of my friends as I get older that date trans – prefer to date trans women. Yeah, you'll find a lot of people that – It's a lot more than I ever expected.

1:04:11Yeah, and it's part of – people think like it's this new thing. But a lot of it is people are just not hiding anymore. Right. Or they're just not as afraid of it. Or they're more aware of it because there's more people who are trans now. And there's more like, you know, with surgeries and estrogen and like, oh, wow, that person looks great. Like there's so many things people do. It's just it's a part of the culture. And it's not going to go away. Like I know some people, I understand nobody wants an ideology beaten over their head. I get it. Nobody wants to be told how to feel. I don't scold people if they don't agree with me.

1:04:41I don't care. Plenty of people I know who I respect and like would find my lifestyle awful. It's always funny because I do a lot of Gutfeld episodes. And when I go on. I got to come there one time. He's great. He's a nice guy. He's a great guy. He really is. He's a genuine, and he's really funny, and he's fair. And Jamie Lesso's on there sometimes, huh? Jamie's great on that show. Oh, I love Jamie. Tyrus is really great at what he's just a very naturally funny, good talker. Tyrus is a big guy, and he's mixed, right? He's mixed. He lives in the town that I'm from, in Louisiana. Oh, he is from Louisiana.

1:05:12That's right. He goes home all the time. That's cool. I saw him at the gym one time. He's inspired me in a way because he lost so much weight recently. It made me get back to the gym. I'm like, and I know for him, it's been a struggle. And I'm like, he's doing it. He's putting up videos of himself boxing. I'm like, just get in the fucking gym. Dude, he looks like all of the Lion King in one person. He does. In a respectable way. Very intimidating. And Kat, I don't want to leave Kat Timp out. She's fucking hilarious. It's a great show. So anyway, I do that and I go on the road. A lot of those fans don't know me except from that show.

1:05:48That's hilarious. It's so, nothing I like more than watching the joy just drain from their face when they realize who they paid to see. But, you know, more people, I guess, now are more comfortable being themselves. Because you also, it's like, you know, I mean, when I was a kid, I'm older than you, so in the 70s, I got called a faggot all the time. I got beaten up and chased by older kids for doing little sexual things with boys. The word gets out, like, he's a faggot. Like, it was nasty. Wow. It's nice that people aren't being treated that way anymore. I didn't know that you had that kind of stuff happen.

1:06:23I think kids got called that. I certainly got called shit just for being smart in a neighborhood where it was uncomfortable to know shit. You know, like... I wish it was for that reason. But no, that's not why they called me that. I was nose deep on a belly button. I earned it. Some people call it penis. some people call it long pussy you know that's a new term for it a long pussy like let's just say she's got a long pussy you know but dude yeah people are such perverts now who even but then also it is crazy because there has been this energy that we've all been following this like astute level of our government and this but then now you realize oh these half these guys are damn pedophiles running around skeeting on fucking you know kids off the coast of fucking wherever it's like What's going on?

1:07:15That's why I don't believe any of it. Like, they're talking about the marriage and the sanctity of marriage, and then you find out that person's divorced. It's like, man, I don't want to hear you weigh in. If you're divorced, shut the fuck up about who can get married because you didn't do it right. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't believe any of it. It's just like I don't believe progressives when they're talking about, you know, being so pious and the purity checks they put everyone through. It's like, you're full of shit too. All your friends are white. Shut up. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean?

1:07:43I don't believe any of them. shit when people are saying that have never lived in the south of how things should be in the south fuck you come down live in our neighborhoods for a little bit see what the shit is like you know it's the same sometimes with the border stuff i don't know what it's like to live on the border in brownsville texas i don't know what people's lives are like right there i don't know the fears people have when they put their kids to sleep at night i don't know the fears people have who are trying to come over who are trying to get their give their kids a place where they can go to sleep at night like i don't know what that's like so like i have thoughts about it sometimes but to really be like so definitive and shit.

1:08:15It's crazy to me. Well, yeah. And because you, you dealing with the immigration with, with Nikki, which we, again, we did it legally and it's a long, the immigration system should be sped up. Like it should be a 24 hour system. That's always got people working because it's like your life is ticking away and you're waiting. And they're, they're, they're sending paperwork through the U S mail. And it's like, Jesus Christ. Like these are like, which is just a trap. The mail is basically like handing a letter to a black guy and hoping he takes it. where it's supposed to go. Yeah. Just here you go.

1:08:45Please bring that to, to the, to the government. This is the request for evidence. Here it is. Um, when there's so much more, it's a government, anything with the government is not going to be efficient. So immigration, they really should streamline it more and make it and hire more people like that. Cause I understand why people hop the fence, but I don't agree with it because we did it legally. Like, but I'm lucky I could afford a lawyer. Like a lot of people can't afford attorneys. So I kind of go back and forth with it. Well, it's nuanced, you know, and people get up so upset about the ice thing but here's what i think people don't understand we're headed to a a surveillance state i believe in america yeah like they're doing this like their palantir as this new deal they're the same ones that are like owning all these drones and operating a lot of these drones in gaza and stuff they're a company right palantir yeah allegedly that are sniping children i mean we had a doctor and he said bullets would come straight down it like from above like a succinct shot so that's the same company like you won't be able to be in like hypothetically or on paper illegal person in America in two years, I don't think.

1:09:45Cause the, the, the, the radar will go off. Like the, the facial recognition will go, you can't do it. So they're getting all the paperwork organized. Now they're just taking inventory right now. And I know it's painful with the faith. You're right. The facial recognition. So like, I don't mind it at the airport. Like I know some people won't let them take the picture, but I show up at the airport sometimes and I did just take a picture of my fucking, my, my stupid face. And I just walk through. I love it. anything that makes my life easier. And I know there's so many civil libertarians are telling me to go fuck myself.

1:10:15You're right. Fine. I don't care. I mean, I'm 57. I just like fucking going on a plane fast. Oh, I wish things were different a lot of times, but also here we are, right? It's like, I can wish things were different. I can romanticize that we're still before nine 11, but that's not where we are right now. We're in this fucking place. But I believe that's why all the stuff with ice. So people sometimes are still like, they shouldn't be doing, I know, I understand people have different feelings, but there's no other way to get to where we're headed by them getting everybody on the books. And I would like to get people like criminals.

1:10:50Once you commit a crime, get out. Yeah. Or hang. I'm fine with hangings. I'm fine with executions. For some people, yeah. Not everybody. No, no, no. But those who really misbehave. Yeah. Although it's funny. I've turned against the death penalty. Have you? But not – they always say it's cruel and unusual punishment. There's a line in Injustice Roll where he's talking about something. He goes, in theory, it's great, but in practice, it sucks. I think in theory the death penalty is allowable. Like I don't think it's cruel and unusual. I think people who hurt children and kill children, I'm all for their fucking heads being mushed between two giant pieces of metal.

1:11:24I just don't trust the system enough, and I don't trust prosecutors enough to back off. Like there's so many times that they care more about the record of the office than they do the actual truth. So that's the only reason that's turned against it. It's nothing to do with it being, I think it's a perfectly allowable thing, but our system isn't perfect. That's a good point. Do you know what I mean? It's like when a coach runs up the score at the end of the game, like how do you know that that prosecutor's office isn't just trying to run up the score because maybe they're trying to make their office look better with so many deals and they're going to sell to a bigger company.

1:11:58You just never know. That's a great point. And they don't want to pay lawsuits. so there's I just don't trust the integrity of the people who will look bad if it's overturned and you look back there's enough prosecutorial misconduct where you're like not technicality shit not where a guy had bloody underpants in his fucking house but the search warrant had the wrong date on it like I'm not talking about technical shit but there are people who legitimately didn't commit the crime and then you see like evidence that wasn't given to their attorneys like yeah it happens a lot I just can't get around a lot of poor people too much more than rich people that's a good point too like so if everyone got the same level of legal representation it's not what happens though yeah I don't think it's racial I think it's it's money like if you have enough money for great lawyers you have enough money for great lawyers yeah but if you don't you get some guy that's overworked who's doing it you know because he has to do it pro bono you're not going to get the level of experts and all these people that can refute evidence so whatever that's how I feel about it but I do think that emotionally I agree with it like I get why people want to cut throats.

1:13:03You start to think, is there bad DNA in the universe? Sure, you're looking at it. Yeah.

1:13:15Dahmer's Petri dish over here. Yeah, there's five foot six of fucking bad DNA. Did you guys ever get to interview OJ Simp? Did you guys ever interview a murderer? Did we ever? Um, I don't, I don't know if you ever, I've interviewed Frank Lucas, uh, who was in, uh, who was the, this American, that wasn't that guy? No, it was American gangster that Denzel played him. Uh, but there's a moment where he went up and shot somebody. So he might qualify. Uh, I'm dying to interview Sammy the bull. I'm dying to talk to him cause I, I, this podcast is fascinating. Uh, you know who one of the best guys we ever talked to was?

1:13:53It was this giant cop from Milwaukee. His name was something Kennedy. He was six foot seven. and he was the cop who debriefed Jeffrey Dahmer. When they arrested Dahmer and they brought Dahmer to the station house, he's the cop, the detective that Dahmer first talked to. And he said at first he didn't believe him because he was like, yeah, I killed all these people. And then he said he got a call from the scene, and they're like, yeah, with the refrigerator, we found heads. And then he had to go back over it. Yeah. Patrick Kennedy. Patrick Kennedy, yeah. He died, unfortunately. He looks young. He was a giant six foot seven beast of a man.

1:14:30Very nice guy. But he, and he admitted that when Dahmer died, he got emotional because he had gotten to know him. And he goes, he kind of got a little bit, he cried. He said when Jeffrey Dahmer was killed, because he was a bad guy, but he's still, you know, whatever. When you know someone, you know him. But a murderer, that's a good, I don't know. But never OJ, huh? Never talked to OJ. I corresponded with him once. I sent him a DM trying to get him on the radio. show and he did respond to me but um he we never got him on this was after he got out of jail uh for for in the vegas thing my buddy has a story where they were uh in new york one night and they were doing some cocaine and this was after the murders and somebody was like oh i don't have a key on me and oj pulled a knife out of his jacket and they did it off of the knife he jimmy the lock no he they just oh the coke the coke they were doing the cocaine and he and they pulled the knife out and they did the, they, and they were all looking at him like it was fucking crazy that he would do that.

1:15:30Why would you carry that? And the only thing crazier than that is me acting like someone's aunt. What? They couldn't get in the house. What an asshole. How did I miss the point of that? I apologize. I'm stupid. I'm a stupid man. You're talking about doing coke. And I'm like, what did they Jimmy the lock? Oh, fucking blithering old idiots. I'm an old man. Yeah. That's a, that's a very bizarre. Maybe OJ had to at that point though because people had such strong feelings about that. Maybe he was afraid somebody was going to jump out and take a shot at him or attack him. I never met him. Yeah, I don't know.

1:16:03I feel like we had a chance to meet him when he was doing podcasts and he was getting paid for them for a while. Yeah. And we didn't go into that. I would love to. I met Kevorkian once, but Ron Bennington, I think, interviewed him and he was there. So I took a picture with Dr. Kevorkian, but I would love to have gotten to talk to him, but I never got to talk to him, unfortunately. Some of them, he's just like, fuck. Did you guys have Trump on your show sometimes? He called in a couple of times. Matt and I, for UFC Unfiltered, interviewed Trump. It was before he got the nomination for the, we knew he was going to get it, but it was like, Biden was president.

1:16:39And they reached out to us. They're like, do you want to interview President Trump? We're like, yeah. So we went to Vegas and we did it in the Trump Hotel. And he was really great. Like it was a sports interview because Dana's like, I don't want this to be politics. This is not a political show. We talked to him for about 40 minutes. About boxing and stuff? Boxing, MMA, because Trump was a great friend to the UFC. He was a tremendous asset to the UFC long before they had what they have now. Dana speaks about that a lot. His brain, dude, his brain, whether people love him politically or not, doesn't matter.

1:17:15I sat in the room with him. His fucking brain was really sharp. People thought we had cue cards set up because his answers were so on the money, and he remembered every fighter, and he remembered every fight. And people are like, these guys had cue cards set up. And he was very sharp. And he was nice to my wife when I introduced him. So I had a great time talking to him. Yeah. You can't not. Anybody who wins the presidency has some form of charisma. Oh, yeah. I'm always people are like, you had that. Dude, what are you talking about? Do you know the street I grew up on? If I didn't interview a president and I had the chance?

1:17:48Yeah. If I didn't sit with people, whether I agree with them or don't agree with them, like, how the fuck am I supposed to know anything about them or get any feeling as a human as to what they may or may not be like or how they operate? It's like I would sit down with the devil probably and at least see if I could get a feel for some of his future plans. Absolutely. And then just I would keep looking at his little cloven feet. Where do you get your shoes from, Dev? But, yeah, who wouldn't want to sit with the – like, again, and he was nice. What was my mind? I would show the same respect to Biden or Kamala.

1:18:20Any of them I talk to, I would be respectful to and have a nice conversation with. There's this weird line where people are like, how could you talk to Trump? Shut up. Yeah. Don't tell me you're going to talk to him. You don't have the chance to talk to any of these people. And I don't mean that in a negative way, but fuck you. Yeah, I absolutely agree with whoever wants to interview somebody. Why should just the quote-unquote press have access to people? If they're willing to come on and talk, why wouldn't you talk to them? It's insane. I do. Some of those guys interviewed Netanyahu and I did not like that though.

1:18:49Oh, you didn't. So you had that kind of feeling. Yep. I'm just thinking that out loud. So, so I guess there's a part of me that doesn't really feel that way. But if you didn't, there's a difference between not liking something and vocally. I wouldn't interview him. And vocally, you wouldn't, you would choose not to. Would you, maybe you could interview him and ask him tough questions. I think I would probably try to ask him stuff that really means something to me. Sure. And that's fair. Like that, they know that if you're Netanyahu or you're Trump or you're Biden, But you know that when you go into an interview, part of it might be this guy asking you questions from a belief system that is not yours.

1:19:21So you might hear things you don't like. But yeah, that'd be the best thing to do is to interview him and ask him shit that he might not want to answer but that you want to know the answer to. Do you think that's better than not interviewing somebody? It's personal preference. I mean I don't think you're wrong to not want to talk to somebody. I think if you go, nah, I'd rather not. I think that's perfectly fair. but I think that part of the thing too is when you're sitting in the room with somebody no matter who they are even if you hate them there is sometimes something about them that you connect to and like and it becomes harder to hate them again they don't have to be a politician I've met people like Lauren Boabert I don't know her I don't agree with her politics and I met her once and she was very nice Kid Rock's girlfriend not his girlfriend is it?

1:20:06I don't know I met her at a Kill Tony event but she was so nice and I enjoyed chatting with her and it's like even if I don't agree with her I don't have the same feelings about her that are bad like you know what I mean because I've met her and she was nice oh for sure it's harder for me to look at her like just this person who's got no real feelings and no real connection to anything oh yeah she got them bumpers on her too she is quite attractive is she yeah yeah she looks great I got zero vibes off her but I mean she's you know as I shouldn't have yeah it doesn't matter but she was nice so when you meet somebody sometimes you think you know what they're going to be like and they want to impressing you and you're like oh it's harder for me to dislike right but although now that's such a controversial issue i'm not saying you would like the guy but you know what i mean sitting across from him you may feel differently or you may hate him more right yeah there is something about sitting across from somebody you're at least sitting across from them there is some connection of like spatial energy of of something like that of like because you i think it It is human to want to find some commonality with people.

1:21:10Yeah, you want to find something that you kind of, like, it's funny, we were interviewing one time Ben Kingsley, and I remember talking to him. Who is he? He was in, like, he was in, he's just, he's an actor. He was in, I think, did he play Gandhi? He might have played Gandhi. He's been in everything. Ben Kingsley? Yeah, he's been, did he play Gandhi? I could be, he's a very famous actor. He had a great, yeah, he was Gandhi. Wow. And he's been around for you. I was thinking of Peter Billingsley. That's who I'm thinking of. Who's Peter Billingsley? I know that name too. He is, um, the guy who kissed that pipe and he got tongue stuck on it.

1:21:45Oh, in the, in the, uh, Christmas story. Yes. Yes. But we were just talking to Ben Kingsley. No, no, I just remember talking to him and he was answering me. And I remember thinking in any other circumstance, this guy wouldn't fucking spit on me. Like he would never talk to me at a party or at a premiere, but in this weird setting, I'm like, so what about, And he's like, well, and he's like giving a real answer. And it's such an odd thing interviewing somebody like people that normally would never acknowledge you now have to listen to you and actually think about how to answer your question. It's a weird psychology.

1:22:21And I remember that just struck me when I was talking to him because our worlds are so different. Like he would never talk to me in real life. Got it. And I've never talked to him again. Right. I see what you're saying. I can't think of someone I wouldn't interview, but maybe if it was brought up in front of me, I might say no. Yeah. I can't think of anyone. I think I would just, I start to realize that some people will just use you. They, and you don't realize it. Like I used to think like everybody just wants to come and they want to have a conversation. It's like you can learn stuff about each other.

1:22:45But then some people just want to use, like they'll use you to get their message out there. And I think I didn't realize sometimes that that's how things work. Yes. And so I think I've noticed that more over time. So maybe that would keep me out of certain conversations, you know, it depends on maybe like with Yahoo. You're afraid that he would just use you to message. I feel like his group is so calculated that they would be able to do it in a way that I wouldn't even maybe see it, you know, I don't know. I think that all anyone in public life, especially in like official politicians, congressmen, they all do this thing where they have talking points and they they're very they're masters at veering back to a talking point.

1:23:26And when they're bad at it, we hate them. Sometimes they're good at it and you don't realize they're doing it. But most times we're savvy enough to go, what are you fucking? They're like, look, you know, you'll be like, what about that thing where they did find the dead prostitute in your closet? No, I know. But the thing with the economy is, and they're right back to talking about their, and you're like, you didn't answer the fucking question. That's why so many of them are so hateable. Because I think we've gotten a little bit better at seeing it now. For sure. When they're back on their talking points.

1:23:51Yeah. and that's why that's why I love the interview that we did with Trump because it was just it really was just a conversation about sports and I would love to I wish I had told him how much I love that he talked to Kim Jong-un I didn't get to say that to him I wish I had I just forgot afterwards but we were saying our goodbyes and he was taking pictures with everybody and I wish I had told him like I love that he went to North Korea and tried like I love that he made an effort with that little short weird guy it'd be cool huh you think Un is cool or what If you're a Chicago Bull, yeah. Like if you played for the Bulls, he's awesome.

1:24:24Right. You know, if your uncle was in the military and made a questionable decision, you're executed. I imagine there's a downside to it. Depends on who you are. Yeah, dude. He looks fucking cool, dude. He looks interesting to be. Like here's what I would think with him. I would be afraid that I'd be in North Korea and there's a language barrier and he would want to toast with alcohol. And I would try to tell him like I'm an alcoholic. so I'd have to refuse the drink and that would start a whole you insulted the leader thing. Yeah, you wouldn't know. I think sometimes whenever you insulted them, I think that would be kind of, yeah, something like that could be really miscued or something.

1:25:02You know who fascinates me? The Sultan of Brunei. Really? Who owns like the Beverly Hilton. Like that's a guy who lives a, that'd be a fun guy to know. Ooh. I might go to Dubai, Abu Dhabi for UFC in October. Who's fighting? Or November. I don't know what the card is yet. I see you at all the events. Like, even if I'm home watching them on the road, they always pant you. You're always there early. I love it in there. I love that you're always there early, yeah. Well, I just get to see, like, you know, Chris Weidman was fighting on his retirement fight, I think, was fighting on the, I don't know if it was the main, it might have even been the first fight of the main card or something.

1:25:33But, like, I mean, there's just so many great fights. I just can't believe that people aren't there. These are, like, guys that are going in there and women that are giving it. I mean, it's like, where are you? I wish I scheduled better because they just announced, I think Jack Dell and Madalena and Makachev at the, in the garden in November. And I immediately look at my schedule. I'm in Oregon. And I'm like, nothing against Oregon. No, but it just hurts. Yeah, I probably didn't even say it right. Yeah. Oregon, where the fuck your dumb state is. I'm coming. What, oh, you know what? One of my favorite conversations was that I ever had, honestly, it was with Louis.

1:26:08It was whenever we chose it because we didn't know each other at all. Right, right. And we like, we just laughed and got to know each other. And then after that we became closer, but that was one of my favorite podcasts ever. Probably. He loves you. And it's funny. Your name came up while we were traveling and he's like, he's a really great guy. He just raved about you. I didn't know that he, you were going to be talking to him or I was going to be even, uh, you were going to be seeing him, uh, this week. It was a nice surprise. Yeah. He's a special guy. He is. And he's, uh, it'd be hard to be him.

1:26:37I feel like, cause he has so many thoughts and he's so able to like look around the corner of thoughts and possibilities. he's like, I mean, really to like, like, fuck, it almost feels like it'd be scary to be him. Does that make any sense? No, a hundred percent because his brain operates so well. Like it's such an interesting and unique brain. Like he helped me fix a joke that I wound up doing in the special. He saw me doing it at the cellar. He's like, you might want to say it like this. And I didn't, it fixed it. It was better. Like, so when you have a guy like that, like he just sees something and he lasers in on it.

1:27:09And the material is so good. His new hour is so good. And he's changing the order every night, trying this, trying that. You know, yeah, he's brilliant, man. That word is overused on people, but he truly is brilliant. Getting your sweat on might seem like hard work, but with Symmetry Sauna, it's a work of art. premium custom saunas for your home or business plus a series of sleek pre-built saunas i just got myself a symmetry sauna and i'm sweating out bad decisions like the time i tried to just uh fill my own um chipped tooth in why sauna well it relieves sore joints and muscles improves skin boosts heart health and melts stress like hot butter.

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1:28:48Did you get to ever meet James J Braddock or not? Who's James J Braddock? The Cinderella man. Never met him. Where, where's he from in Jersey? We may have missed it. Bergen. no but that's not that far from me Joey Diaz used to shovel his driveway is he dead or alive Joey's alive but this guy's dead no I know Joey James your Braddock is dead Joey's alive

1:29:10but if I didn't know if Joey Diaz that would be sucked if he was dead I was like oh sorry I just talked to him yeah Braddock dude that Cinderella man's the best you've seen that have I seen that I don't think I have wow I don't think I have No, and I was six when he died. I was born in 68. Oh, yeah. I didn't realize he died that early. Oh, you and Nicky got to watch. Put on some condoms and watch this thing, dude. Condoms. Forget it. Not before, during, or after our marriage. We'll ever use one of those. Boo, those things. When did he win it? But, oh, this is my favorite movie. I just watched Silver Linings Playbook again.

1:29:43That movie's so good. That was very good. Yeah, De Niro and Bradley Cooper. I just watched the Irish Mickey Ward movie, The Fighter. I don't know if I saw that. I think we've interviewed Mickey Ward though, but I don't remember. I could see that. Yeah, he was, he's still alive, right? I don't know what he was promoting. UFC guys, by the way, are the nicest of all the athletes to interview. So funny. I've interviewed, boxers tend to be a little standoffish, a little too cool for the room. You keep the sunglasses on. But UFC fight, there's a humility to them. And Rogan said it's because they get tapped a lot in the gym.

1:30:17When you're training, you're being submitted and you're submitting. So there's a humility there that you keep. because there's always somebody kind of getting the better of you. And maybe that's what it is. I don't know. But I like those guys the best. I think that makes sense. Oh, yes. Getting to be around some of those guys. Dude, I accidentally called one of the fighters, Stephen Miochik, and it was not him. Oh, no. Is that a woman? I asked two UFC employees. I was like, yes, that's him. And I went over to say, hey, and it wasn't. It was Jan Blachowicz. Jan Blachowicz. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:30:54And it was just fucking scary for a minute. Would you say, hey, Stipe? Yeah. I was like, hey, how's the retirement going? And I think he didn't want to, you know, if a guy's not retired, he probably didn't want to hear that. And I kind of like tickled him a little because I know Stipe a little. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was just fucking tough. But, you know, you win something. He did give me a nice look later on that made me feel a little bit better, but just you got to be careful. Like, yeah, it's funny. Like it's almost like whenever you get to like, you're like around a pit bull for a little while at a party.

1:31:24You're like, Oh, now we're buddies. Yeah. You just want to be a little careful sometimes around those guys. You want to be a little bit careful because you never know what past trauma you remind them of in a minute when you do something. I had, I was in LA one time many years ago and I walked up and it was Patrick Swayze was coming out of a restaurant. So I walked up. Was he handsome? Very. And I go, dude, I love you. Can we take a picture? And I'm like, I'm such a fan, Patrick. And he goes, I'm not Patrick. And it was David Keith. And he was with a date. Whoa. That was embarrassing. That was fucking embarrassing.

1:32:05I thought it was Swayze. It wasn't. Oh, that is heavy. I could see that a little bit. That was years ago. It looks like Robert Wool, actually. Oh, did I fuck up? I just got nervous. It was Keith David, you mean? Oh, David Keith. Keith is, one's black, one's white. Oh, David Keith. Sorry, did I say Keith David? Click on Keith David. Keith David's black. If it was him. Yeah, he was in Platoon. Mr. Swayze. He wasn't white. Yeah, no, no. This guy is fucking not doing well. David Keith is white. He was in An Officer and a Gentleman. David Keith is a great actor. Oh, yeah. I just panicked. Oh, for sure.

1:32:40I was just nervous. Keith David I met in an airport one time in LAX. The coolest guy in history. He was wearing like a completely white suit and white coat with a fucking white hat. That guy's just awesome. Yeah. He was also in that, that Michael Douglas, what was the movie? Platoon? No. Spartacus? It was a drug movie where the girl, Requiem for a Dream, I think he was in. Oh, that movie was interesting. Yeah. I think Jared Leto was in that. And he was really, Keith David is tremendous, but in Platoon, you know. Yeah, that was a different time. Yeah. That was embarrassing. I relate to that It's humiliating Yeah I'm trying to think I know there's been Something like that That I've had But I think sometimes I just can't I think sometimes My brain just shuts down Do you ever panic Around people like that Like where Like my brain is not working And I'm just like lost And I'm like I know I should be More comfortable But they're famous Or whatever it is Oh yeah I met Johnny Depp came to The comedy store one night And it's still like A moment of lore Because it was like Doug Stanhope brought him Yep And they were in the green room In the main room And everybody was in there And I was like I got there And they're like don't tell anybody Johnny Depp's here and I knew when they're telling me I was like they've told everybody they're telling me and so I go back in there and then all you know like you don't even know who else in there was like 50 people in this little room and John and then like I got to somehow got to say I said hello Mr.

1:33:59Johnny Depp and then I had nothing else to say and it was very uncomfortable and I realized I was just there for me kind of and I just got out of there yeah it's embarrassing because you want to say something but sometimes a person's famous and I like their work but i don't have anything to say to them like yeah i admire your work and that's kind of uh you know where do you go from there if you have nothing legitimate to say and i've i yeah i've done that i've humiliated myself uh but they got to be used to it too they're like and some of them will be helpful to you they'll kind of ask you something to fucking put you back on your feet you know or someone will shake you and be like you're not a son or whatever you know like no No one's ever shaken me and said that.

1:34:40I've tried to say that in the mirror, and I just wound up laughing.

1:34:49Jim has a crash chest dummy. It's like one of those battling dummies, but he just uses it to give it uplifting, positive, semi-homosexual. You're straight, Jim. Now you're not, Jim. Get back in there, Jim. You're straight. You can do it. It's not scary. It doesn't have teeth. Um, yeah, no, I, oh, my, here's my Johnny Depp story. I was at, uh, I got invited to, uh, it was Ozzy's actual, uh, 70th birthday party. I got to go to that. Wow. In the U S in, it was at his house in Beverly Hills. And it was amazing. It was a lot of great people there. And Johnny Depp, uh, was walking around and I was talking to him and he was very nice.

1:35:30Um, and I talked to him three or four different times. We took a picture and then I, I realized it was a Johnny Depp impersonator. Stupid, no show biz, Jim Norton. Like my aunt, again, I fell for it. It was a Johnny Depp, 20 years younger than Johnny Depp, by the way. And I fucking fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. All night you were over there. I do, and I'm like, Johnny Depp, I got a picture. I've gotten, Dice got me on the road years ago. We were on the road in like late 90s. He goes, that's Charlie Daniels. So I took a picture with this guy. It was just some fucking hayseed in a cowboy hat.

1:36:06Oh, they got me so good. They got me. One time we were in the airport. It was an Opie and Anthony trip. We were going somewhere. And one of the Jonas Brothers was talking to his dad. They were traveling. And I'm not a fan of the Jonas Brothers. And I don't know their names. But I'm like, I got to, I'll take a picture with him. So I walk over and I just start talking to this 15-year-old kid and his dad. And I just wanted to take a picture, if you don't mind. And I look and they're all laughing. and I realized it's just some fucking kid with his dad. I creepily approached some 15-year-old. They're sitting in the airport eating lunch and some fucking old blinking pederast looking guy wants a photo with this boy.

1:36:45Ice cold. Oh my God. Cold coffee. End of Faust's head. Is this nothing better than her head movements? Oh my God, dude. She looks like the cop in Dog Day Afternoon. Keep us off drinks. Keep us off drinks. But yeah, that was a... I've gotten God a few times like that, thinking it's a fucking celebrity. It's humiliating. But I deserve it. Yeah, and we all need stuff like that, man. It's the stuff like that that just keeps you alive, I feel like. Yeah, and when you get one of your friends. And I do like the ability to just go, like, you're an idiot. It's funny. Yeah, to laugh at yourself. And what better thing, to hit on a kid and also realize you're not a pedophile.

1:37:29Well, I didn't think he was cute. I just wanted a picture. I wasn't hitting on him. I didn't say to him, son, if you need to go to the restroom, may I escort? No, I was just trying to take a picture while they ate lunch. Some fucking kiosk at the airport. And then finally, they looked at me like, what? And then I just happened to see Anthony and the rest of the guys fucking laughing. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, they got me. I'm like, sorry, I just don't want to have my camera out. Fucking jerk off. Oh, my God, dude. Yeah. Oh, I don't know why that's one of those. For some reason, it's just so perfect.

1:38:01That was one thing I was nice about before social media and everything. Everything was possible. Nobody in a moment's notice would be like, that's not them, or this isn't possible. You could lie to people, but you couldn't lie to people. You could make stuff up. There was so much room for creativity and possibility and everything because everybody didn't have all of the hypothetical answers at their whim. All information. Yeah. I could have just Googled them and then seen. I imagine I could have at that point either. I was just so, thought it'd be so much fun to get a picture with one of the Jonas Brothers.

1:38:33I get pictures of people that don't give a fuck. I stopped doing that now as I'm older, but for a long time, I did it because it was fun. We had so many celebrities coming through your world, too. At one point, there were a lot, yeah. I mean, that show was crazy. To be in that lobby in that big building in New York, like, especially for young comics, you go there, and there's like, it looks like outer space when you get there downstairs the first time if you haven't been in there, and it's those glass, like something turns green and it opens it up, but first you have to go talk to somebody who's usually a diversity hire, I'm gonna say it, in a suit over there downstairs and they would call up to somebody magically somewhere, you would get the thumbs up, they'd give you a little barcode and now you're like, the doors open and then bing, and it just, the elevator like, almost is like come in here, and then you, and then you go so high to your ears pop and you get out and like fucking Evander Holyfield is in the lobby, or like Doja Cat or fucking Katy Perry.

1:39:28Everybody's waiting to go into some little enclave to get their voice out to the world. It was crazy. It was crazy. And Stern was right down the hall too, so he would always have huge guests. Oh, yeah. I nailed McCartney coming out of his studio one time. I got a picture with McCartney. That was a big one. Pele I got. They weren't there for my show, but I still would. If they're in the lobby, I'm like, it's fair game. And usually they would take it, because you're in that... It's kind of a closed environment. But yeah, that was one... that was one that's a good shot with us too I've always hated how my dumb neck looks but yeah because I was doing it for a selfie and then McCarty goes let my guy do it so I handed it to his security guy he was actually very nice and yeah that's a great a great shot that's a pretty good picture man it's very risky handing it to someone else too because you have no control over what they're going to do no control but because Paul suggested it I knew the guy would do like do as he was at like it wasn't like I just handed it to some guy and I'm like quickly you know he asked the guy and he probably knew like let me just get this fucking weird egg headed kid out of here and go about my day yeah this is a special needs adult it really yeah it is I don't look particularly mentally healthy there or handsome did you feel like you were handsome when you were a kid or not never really no I look back now I was like I was a cute little boy I look back I was like yeah when I was I get why a lot of the older kids saw my face and deserved that way should hump that I got it I got it.

1:40:58Was there a lot of predators in your neighborhood and shit? No, we were all in the same age group. There was maybe a couple, but no, my therapist tells me I was molested, but I was like, eh, I was kind of volunteering for it. I was there for it. You know what I mean? Like I was, eh, I don't think so. I was hanging out on the mistletoe type of, uh. Yeah, I was in on it, you know. Oh, that's me at 17. Is that you? That's me at 17. Oh my God. Yeah, young urban Jim with a lot of attitude. Wow, I did not see this. You look like somebody that would work for Neil Brennan. You know what I'm saying? You look like a black, like definitely like a young Wigga type of child.

1:41:39Yeah, that hat really should have been removed from my head white with the clockwork orange shirt. I didn't know what I wanted it to be. Oh yeah, you're doing a lot of things here. That's why when I see people with these identity crises, like with the, especially when they're like political about it or whatever, I understand the identity crisis. We all have them in time. And eventually you grow into who you are. Oh, yeah, dude. I was doing the black thing for a while for a kid. I did the Nirvana thing, Stone Temple Pilots. I did all the things. Marilyn Manson. I went down a lot of different roads.

1:42:12The religious, different things. You were like, yeah, you're trying shit on. You're trying stuff on. I was into the little white kid who thinks he's black. I was doing that long before it was fashionable. Fuck, yeah. like in the 80s, like when Adidas still had fat laces and that was considered. But then you grow out of it and then you just kind of, somebody said one time, like instead of looking for who you are, just get rid of all the shit that you're not and whoever you are just shows up. And that kind of made sense. Like just stop looking for it and just live and you'll find, but I see so many people in life that are looking for an identity.

1:42:44That's what so much of this stuff is, public, you know what I mean? People that are so adamant, always talking about the same thing, always talking about the same thing. You're like, you want an identity. You just, you're looking to, you want a little prefab identity, like a little. And do you think there's a way that we can get to know, like, so one of the things you just said is like, get rid of the things that you're not, right? Sure. Like, yeah, how do we find our identity more? Because I wonder if we used to be better at that. I feel like if we used to have more of communication with like our parents, you know, like back in like almost like caveman time.

1:43:17Was there something more that your identity was kind of shaped with just being able to survive, right? And now we have this, all this other, like this, all this other fucking ornamentation that helps us get a reflection of ourselves. I just wonder if it was different or if, how do, how do we find our identity better? I wonder. Well, there's also no, there was less pressure then because now immediately everybody weighs in. So there's this pressure to weigh in so we don't drown. Like we want to just be above the, above sea level. We just want to survive and be noticed and be alive. So there's no time for it.

1:43:49It's almost like that's why people have these, again, these almost like big, like when you see a house being driven down the street on the back of a flatbed, like that prefab prebuilt house, that's how people are with politics and with social issues. There's no time to go looking for nuance. And it's like, okay, that's my, that's my, that's, that's who I am. And that's, that's what I'm associated with. Everybody's so afraid of being run over by all of it. So I think just don't, don't listen to what everybody else is saying. I don't give a shit what other people think about stuff. I don't begrudge them, but I don't care.

1:44:18Like I have plenty of friends whose politics I totally disagree with I don't give a fuck Did you have a tough time when you were young Like deciding I'm going to make my own choice for myself Can you bring me one more water Trevin We'll finish up in a couple minutes That's fine I didn't believe we were going this long How long in the time Probably two hours What You want to pee really fast Can I yeah because I'm loving this chat There's a bathroom right behind that curtain Oh okay awesome Dude one thing I noticed about having to pee dude Is as I get older that kind of is not fun but here's what i notice is some of these underpants the stuff on them is too tight so all night your bladder has to pee even with just a little bit of liquid in it it's pressing all night you're absolutely right and also the fact getting fatter doesn't help um like when i fly i i hate that feeling pressing on my bladder i'll fly always wear sweatpants and no underwear when i fly and it's not to be creepy it's because this way i feel like i'm not as confined as I was.

1:45:16I piss constantly. So the fact that I can go for however long we've been talking without peeing. Every time I do Rogan, I got to pee at least twice. Oh, yeah. It's so hard in there. Yeah, but I'll always just go, I got to piss. And usually he does too. So it's not a big deal. But like sometimes you just talk right through it and you're like, I have to go to the bathroom. What am I doing? Oh, and like when you're riding the bag, when you're sleeping at night and you have to pee and you don't get up. Yep. That mesmerizing dark thing you do, you're like, I'm just going to lay here. Have you ever wet the bed I wet the bed all, oh, I wet the bed all, I was probably 27.

1:45:48I wet once. Last time I did, no, I've done it more recently than that. I've done it since my wife has been there too. A few times I've wet the bed. Yeah. But I don't care. I don't feel bad. Sam used to think I was crazy. But I'm like, it happens once in a while. I pee a lot. You sleep every night and you pee every day. You don't think they're going to cross paths once in a while? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like two ships passing in the once in a while. They meet. You think it's crazy? Yeah. Once in a while you're asleep and you have to piss and you're like, I'm a no and you dream about being in a pool you dream about being in the ocean and you wake up and there's urine on you and I go right back to sleep I'll throw a towel on it of course I'm not an animal I'll put a little sawdust on it a little something and I'll lay into it yeah oh yeah but I remember as a kid I was so scared going to bed that I had to do all these checks and balances in my room because I didn't realize why I wet the bed for so long and it wasn't like about six months ago I was remembering oh dude well when you went to bed every night you would have to like look and open a door look in a closet look at a certain way lean something against the door on the inside then on the outside you'd have to like look at certain like it was it was no joke it was probably a 13 minute process every night were you afraid of i was just afraid of like people getting in from outdoors i was afraid of like killers murders these hypothetical kind of boogeymen you know and we lived in like a kind of scary neighborhood so i I was just scared of all that.

1:47:10But I remember like, dude, no wonder you slept in fucking crazy fear. I would fall asleep like this so something couldn't cut my throat, I remember. Really? And it was so funny. I forgot about this, but for years I did that. And I was like, dude, no wonder you— With your hands, you'd sleep like that? Yeah, I would sleep like that because I didn't want something to cut my throat. I wanted to cut my hand first so I would know. Right, right. Yeah, of course. And I don't know what made me so scared. Although if somebody had the wherewithal to get in with a knife, they could have just taken a feather and tickled your nose.

1:47:37And then you would have went like that and then they could have fucking just sliced the jugular. There's ways around that. Yeah. I didn't think ahead. Do you sleep on your back? I can't sleep on my back. No, that's crazy. Oh, you lay on your side like that? I'll lay on my side. Yeah, okay. That I can do. That I feel like is okay. I wanted to talk about Kill Tony. You've been labeled by some as one of the best Kill Tony guests, which is kind of rare because they hate everybody kind of. They do. Yeah, they're like old ONA fans too. They're just animals. Yeah, they're animals. They hate everyone.

1:48:05but I think I love doing that show like you did the garden yeah? I did yeah it was like a five or six minute stand up set that's cool it's tough to do there it is a different energy man and I did it last year but they didn't film it for they just kind of shot it for clips but when you're doing the panel I would at the mothership I've done the panel a lot and I always like to give the if I can give the comics a bit of advice I try to because a lot of those guys are really terrible and a lot of them are really good but they're just raw and as a new comic man i was so fucking easily wounded that if someone like made it seem like i really had nothing i probably would have quit so i always try to like fuck around and if i can say something that helps them i try to that's a good point yeah i think i remember now when you said that i remember like one of the first nights i ever did comedy maybe the third or fourth time like i started like down in New Orleans and Mark Norman was there.

1:49:02Dane Fauche, a couple, some, some local guys, Scotland green, some different comedians down there. And, um, but I remember the bartender said, Hey man, you did a good job. And just something like that little kept me coming back for the next two months. Yeah. Because somebody who, who's in the know, somebody who's in that scene recognize it and went, Hey, you're right. The bartender in a comedy club or in a comedy scene, they see everybody. Yeah. So when they like you, you're like, all right, I must be doing something right because they see everyone who comes. There was a guy named Rob at Rascals.

1:49:32He was a bartender and he always liked me and he was always like, yeah, you're really funny, man. And that gave me confidence back then because every comic came through there. And the fact that Rob thought I was funny meant something. You know what I mean? Like that's like when other comics respect you. Oh yeah. You feel like, fuck, I'm doing something right. Cause the guys that are the hardest to make laugh or the most critical about it, like what I'm doing. Yeah. one night I was coming off stage and Bill Burr said something. I had to go on before him at the Dolby theater and I was so nervous.

1:49:59I never even been on a theater stage before. And I did pretty good, right? It just went good. And I was coming off and he's like, I'm pretty good, man. You know, some, some little, even just getting him to even fucking, even if he just spit on my back, it would have, you know, if he'd have come on one of my legs, I'd have been like, that's, thank you. He's just multiple mix to that.

1:50:21Have the, has the audience stopped cheering Clarice, but yeah, That would have been perfect, dude. But yeah, it's so funny, the little things like that. What do you think about Kill Tony and that whole, like, when you see that, what do you think about? Do you see it as a phenomenon? Do you see it as, like, a change? Like, what do you think about it? I think it's great because it gives a lot of people who badmouth it. It's like it's really, it's honest. It's like these young guys are getting up on stage. Some are brand new. And you're watching this minute process. It's very hard to be funny in a minute.

1:50:53So hard. And I love the fact that, because Tony is so fast. Like, he really is quick. Like, lightning fucking fast. And when he plays with people, sometimes they'll be terrible on stage, but they'll win him over in the interview. So he gives you a shot. You have a fair shot at Kill Tony. No one can interrupt you a minute. And during the interview, if you have a comic's brain and you're funny, you'll be acknowledged as being funny, even if your set wasn't good. I don't feel like there's any bias. Like, hey, we're going to get this guy because he thinks this. Or we're going to choose that guy because he thinks that.

1:51:28I agree. I think it's a very honest formula. I love doing it. And I just have a fun time when I do it. It's so pressure-free. And it's just fun to fuck around and riff. It's like radio. Like, I love doing that show. Yeah, and you get to be around other guys, like you're saying. You just get to be around another group of comics. You're all together. There's the blind guy. There's the Chris Rogers is doing art. you know it's like or the black guy they took his eyes out for being black or whatever which is it's like come on dude those times have changed but okay um but it's just and and then tony is in a weird way it's so perfect because tony's almost always he's kind of the bad guy right he's the wizard but he's also the bad guy right like so you know he's like because he's so like he can be so just cutting that in the end he's almost always the bad guy and yeah some of those people are setting themselves up for complete failure some of them just want a moment of that pain of being up there and some of them they're getting up there to try it and it probably gets a lot of those bugs out of their just the nerves out of their system yeah if you can survive in that it's a huge stage even if you're just doing the mothership you still know how many people are going to see it and he's a sniper he picks up on everything but if you're good if he thinks you're funny he won't like go, let me go trash this guy because I have to.

1:52:49He'll acknowledge you as being funny and have a good time talking to you. So I think if you go into it with that and you know like, hey, it can go either way I think you're going to have a good time. But I couldn't have done it six months in. I would have been fucking terrified to do that show six months in. Oh, it would have been so crazy. And that just shows you that times are different somehow I think with people seeing clips of things. The psychology of society changes and how people are able to be something. Like when I was coming up, I couldn't have just, I don't think, gone and done that and known that that many people could see it.

1:53:22It would have been way too scary. Yeah, it would have been terrifying. But the ball's on. Like, because they see guys, like all these guys that are coming through, they're all doing well. The ones that have kind of come through, Cam Patterson is doing great. He just made SNL. He did. Okay, I had heard that, but I didn't want to say it. I didn't know if they announced it yet. He just took it. Please don't. Good for Cam. Good, yeah, I heard that last week. Good for him. Tommy Brennan, Jeremy Culhane, Cam Patterson, and Veronica Slowikowska. Oh, that's great. Yeah, I'm happy that that was official.

1:53:51I congratulate them. I'm like, I won't say. Ari Matty is very funny. Christina Mariani. Christina Mariani is very funny too. Yeah. There's a good group of people there. And I know Fiona Colley, I'm forgetting some people. So I apologize. Fiona's from here, I think, isn't she? She redheaded? Yes. I don't know where she's from. Does she seem like she's in a wheelchair or whatever? I did get that impression. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Very definitively got that impression when she wheeled in. I wasn't, I was like, she didn't just seem like it. Like right now, I seem like I'm in a wheelchair because I'm sitting here.

1:54:28But when somebody wheels in, you can say, without reservation, that person's in a wheelchair.

1:54:35And blessings, Fiona. She should be on SNL. She's great. She and I have actually worked together on the same show a few times. So I just, yeah, yeah, same. Yeah, definitely. I like that whole crew. And they're all nice. Like you see them on the events now and they're getting real followings. So many of them. So it's nice to see these young comics doing really well. And some people, I don't want anybody to begrudge those guys. It's like there's room for everybody. That's what Rogan always says. And that's one thing that I admire about him the most. He always says that there's room for everybody.

1:55:06There's room for all of us to lift each other up. Yeah, I'm not afraid of my spot. We all, as we get older, you feel like, oh, I suck. I'm worthless. It's just a part of what made me a comic to begin with. I mean, if I had great self-esteem, I would not have gotten into this line of work. That part of me has remained the same. But as far as shitting on other people, we're trying to keep other people down because of what they say or their belief. It's just such a weak pussy thing to do. It's like, who the fuck cares? I don't care what other guys are talking about on stage. as long as you're not stealing material.

1:55:38Whatever point of view you're talking about, good, make it funny. Yeah, I don't even have time to think about that. No, but guys do. You do the joke from the wrong angle and people are like, whoa. And it's dishonest. When people criticize that, it's not like, hey, I'm old and I can't handle young people being involved. It's that I think it's dishonest and attacking other comics for material points of view is a way for you to climb socially. It's become one more way to climb the ladder. it's not based these purity tests are just one more way for people to climb the ladder they give you a purity test you fail they climb a little higher because they gave the test it's nonsense but that ladder has fallen so far down in society i think people are just like whatever that whole system was for so long is disappearing so much you know i think that's why it's like um yeah i don't know people just make their own choices now like who's gonna listen to some article or some fuck, you know, it's like, I believe we're in a space where more and more, it feels like people would make their own choices, but maybe not.

1:56:38You hope so. I mean, and I've never like, I never, no one changes my mind. Like I think for myself, like everyone can say what they want. Cause I, I think for myself, like people will say things about like, well, when he says that they'll come after Rogan, what he says is dangerous. And I'm like, well, have you listened to him? And they're like, yeah. Did he change your mind? No. Well then, why don't you give everybody that credit? Like people give themselves the ability to, to, uh, to go through information intelligently, but they think the rest of the public are a bunch of blithering tards who can't do it.

1:57:08And it's like, no, you're not the only one who can sift through information. And some people don't operate, but do not make their decisions from information based on the analysis of the information. They base it on how the information makes them feel. And I don't think that those people are necessarily, one is necessarily more right than the other sometimes. Yeah, and it's hard to kind of like just tune it all out. I tried to. There was years I didn't check at mentions on Twitter. Like I just don't give a fuck what everybody's talking about. What's this? What does he say about that? Give us a shit.

1:57:42I don't have time to. Yeah, I really don't, and I don't care. Yeah. It's not interesting to me. Yeah. Like, you know, if it's a friend and I'm talking to him, sure. But do I care who other people vote for? Like it is of no relevance to me whatsoever. Yeah. I don't know how people, and like if you say something good about Trump, like there's policies he has that I very much disagree with. But like you say anything good about him, like he's a, how could you? It's like shut up. Take your little identity hat off. Just be a person. Have a conversation. When you think about this stuff, like in D.C. they just had where they, they want to clean up some of these cities and they're using the National Guard, which I've always thought is like, you know, police are in this tough space where everybody's filming them and it's like, it feels like they need more support somehow.

1:58:25a lot of cities have become overrun with crime. Trump's use of National Guard in Los Angeles was illegal, judge rules. Yeah, I know Brandon Johnson in Chicago is not for it. He's the worst mayor in the country. Is he? Awful. Chicago's mayor pushes back as Trump administration readies immigration crackdown. Let's see what they say. Chicago's mayor has limited how much his city's police department can cooperate with federal immigration agents in response to threats from the Trump administration to ramp up immigration enforcement operations in the city. So it's just about immigration. and like they did I don't know they didn't want National Guard helping with immigration like they didn't want to help National Guard with immigration or troops but if they're just doing it to control crime it's like crime is it's a mess as long as they're not interfering with people's comings and goings if they're just patrolling the streets and giving the police some assistance you know most of the people who are against these policies a lot of them don't live in those neighborhoods a lot of them can leave their house without being fucking worried about being robbed by somebody selling drugs.

1:59:25So I think if it keeps people safer, as long as you're not infringing on their right to do anything. Yeah. You know, I have a real salt. Look, here's the reality. The most important thing Trump has done is he is honoring Kiss at the Kennedy Center. And I'm going to tell you, there's nothing that has made me happier than any politician has ever done. Is he really doing that? Gene, Peter, Ace, and Paul, the original four members, are being honored at the Kennedy Center. Nothing has made me happier than that. I love him. I love that he did that. I would hug him. I mean, he does a lot of interesting stuff, man.

1:59:57And I hope that some of his plans for the country and stuff are good. I hope we see a lot of the things that he kind of tried to campaign on. And I think it's just really interesting when guys campaign and then when they get in office, I bet things are way different. And we don't know what those things are like. But I hope that he has a lot of long-term beneficial things for the everyday American. I bet you Obama was very disappointed. Because he was like a young, not too tainted by politics guy, but he was still a relatively young guy. Oh, yeah, voted for him. And he had all these hopes and dreams.

2:00:33And then you get into it and you're like, oh, there's a lot of muck and glue and things. I bet you that his idealism somehow got squashed a little bit when he saw how it really worked from being deep in it. and these things that you think you're going to fix, you can't.

2:01:19Yeah, what does it say here? there's a genuine desire in cities that have really high crime rates to bring it down. Please. I think people's biggest concern is they want to be able to leave the house. People care about abortion. They care about all this. But people want to be able to leave the house and go to work without being fucking hit over the head with a pipe. Like, you know what I mean? There is a really basic desire to want to get in your car without it being stolen at gunpoint. Like, these things that we take for granted so many times, violent crime to me, because it's such an avoidable thing.

2:01:53So avoidable. It's so avoidable. So if he's using these forces the way he says he's using them, I have no problem with it. And I don't want to see, look, illegal immigrants who are housekeepers, who are just out working, who are whatever they're doing. Like they're out building houses. They're out. I have no problem. Contributing, being some great members of America. There are people who just want a better life. Like those people I don't want to see kicked out. I know they're here illegally, but I still have empathy for someone doing that. But as soon as you commit crimes and like you commit a violent felony or even an assault, out.

2:02:26Yeah. I mean, that's it. There should be no second chance. I mean, if you're lucky enough to be here, don't commit violent crimes. I mean, I don't think that's crazy. Yeah, and especially if as a regular citizen here, if you commit a violent crime that you're held to a certain standard, you know? Yeah, you're going to jail. Yeah. You're not being released immediately. Yeah, I think there's a lot of holes. It's tough. I don't know, man. You know, and we just try our best and you try your best just to show up for yourself every day and your new wife and... Yeah, and not be a bad boy on the road.

2:02:55Yeah. Talking to her in the dog. Is that tough? It is because, again, but it's not like there's one specific thing. It's tough because addiction is selfish and, like, it's about getting high and it's about feeling that rush. So, so many times you want to do things just to get away from yourself. Oh, yeah. Like, I'm not happy with how I look. I'm going to jerk off or I'm going to fucking, yeah. Yeah, and I do that too much. I mean, I really do. I mean, up and down the fucking East Coast, there are towels that probably should not be used by another person. My apologies to any guest who's drying off and your back gets scraped up because the towel is too rough.

2:03:32That's my bad. It's tough times out there. Yeah, it really is tough times. But it's not, you know, what do they say? I'm not the man I could be or should be, but I'm not the man I was. Like, you know, my life is better now. I'm happily married. I mean, despite being annoyed at times of being married, I love the fact that my wife enjoys when I joke about us on stage. She's not sensitive. Like, you know what I mean? Right, you can be free in your relationship. Yeah, she loves it. And will y 'all send videos of, like, jerking off and stuff like that? I don't know. Do people do that? No. I mean, she sent me some nude photos and videos.

2:04:10That's cool. But we live together. and like that's the one thing when you're married that perverted stuff. Right. Sometimes, because you can hook up whatever you want. Right. But if I asked her for a video jerking off, she'd probably send it to me. She has in the past. That's nice. Yeah, I'll ask her. Eddie Money showed me some pictures of his new wife one time on a plane. Nude? Pretty nude. Whoa. I like Eddie Money. He's dead now, unfortunately. Dude, he said he hit a can of Huff one time so hard that one of his legs quit working. Really? Fuck yeah. He was a fascinating guy. He overdosed, survived a lot of stuff.

2:04:46Does his wife look good naked? Pretty good. I'll show you my wife's penis if you want. She wouldn't care. You're crazy, really? Yeah, she wouldn't care. Oh, dude. Maybe just do a drawing of it for me. Okay, all right. You think? Just show it. I'll kind of go like this a little. All right. I won't show it on camera just because - No, no, no. Just show it to me. I don't want to see all of it at once. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't show it all on camera because she's a lady. She wouldn't care for that. No lady wants their penis shown completely on camera. Oh, for sure. Dude, I don't even want to fucking look at it.

2:05:12Oh, I won't show it to you if you don't want to look at it. No, I'm okay. Oh, okay. I like. Let me see here. Hold on. You can, I won't just hit you with it. Yeah, this is a surprise. You don't be like. Let me find an acceptable photo that she would be proud of. Okay. No, she wouldn't like that. That's a video. I'll find one for you. Yeah, take your time. I'm going to think about something else for just a minute. All right. You want to see? Yeah, hold on. Okay. Yeah. Whoa, brother. What the heck? Oh, my God, Jim. Your wife has that? That's my lady. That's my best gal. Wow. That is a tall pussy.

2:06:00She's a tall lady. She's a tall lady. Oh, that thing's in 4-H, huh? Yeah. Oh, you got to spray some Roundup on that. Yeah. God, yeah, you got to get back home. Yeah, I mean, sometimes I need a break. You know what I mean? Your body collects and you're like, I'll take a little break. Oh, yeah. Bro, you could fucking scratch. You could file your nails down that day. Yeah. But it's funny. It's like it really is. That's the main difference in the relationship. It's like compared to other women I've dated, as a person, there's no difference. Like our life is the same as anybody's life. Thank God she has a sense of humor.

2:06:37I love that she has a sense of humor Oh you'd have to have that Yeah but some don't I've dated people who would get mad if I talked about certain things I haven't even gone out with trans girls That would be very mad at me just doing that At least she has a good sense of humor man If she didn't I wouldn't have done that Like I'm fucking around Yeah I would never even look at some Guy's wiener But it's a woman's wiener Yeah I guess it depends on People look at that differently too Like there's a lot of people that are very anti that label being put on trans women. But I think that, you know, if you spend any time with my wife, it's just it's not a man's brain.

2:07:18And people are like, dude, just admit it. You're gay. We don't care. I understand why people say that. And I really do. Like I get it. And again, I couldn't prove the point in court because my partner has a penis. Like there's no way around that. Yeah. unless you have a long way to time to walk or a small ladder. That seemed like a woman's wiener to me. Well, yes, that's how I look at it. But I understand why people say, just admit you're good, but there's a difference. And I can't describe the difference, but I understand the difference internally. If I was a homosexual at this age, I would tell people, I don't give a fuck.

2:07:56It's not that I'm running away from saying something that people think I should say. You know, sometimes I miss vaginas. I mean, I like them. Yeah. But hey, here we are. Here we are. And happy. And happy. There you go, brother. Oh, yeah. That thing is a damn, God, that thing's a damn lunchable you got going on. Yeah, yeah, you got to respect it. That's a real meal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyone's got to respect that. Like even somebody who's not into that lifestyle would go, you know what? Round of applause. Yeah, sir.

2:08:30Unconceivable is on YouTube now. And always, thanks for all the entertainment, man. Thanks for welcoming me on your show. Thank you, buddy. And giving me a chance to just get to ever even be on a radio show and make it fun or on a podcast. You guys were kind of in that early realm. It was kind of a hodgepodge in there. It was, yeah. I mean, podcasting. I remember Mark Maron used to occasionally when he was in town, if he needed a studio to interview someone, he would use our productions. Like we were there at the very, very beginning. And good luck. I didn't see it coming. I mean, I knew it was going to be popular and I had a radio contract, but I didn't, I wish I had jumped on it earlier, but I wasn't allowed to.

2:09:07I had a, I had a exclusivity contract, but whatever. Who gives a fuck, Jim? Yeah. You, well, you've been, I think you've done the best job of being Jim Norton, man, from an outside perspective. It's been interesting. You're, I think you're an inspiration for people to try and figure out how to best be themselves. I know it's a journey for everybody, but I think it's cool, man. I think it's interesting. You seem like kind of like a person that's kind of brave in the world. Well, I appreciate that. but it really is and none of my I haven't lost any friends over my life like you know what I mean like whoever doesn't like I wouldn't there's no one I wouldn't cut loose yeah like you know what I mean I have my friends I have no shame in that part of my life and who I love oh yeah it doesn't seem like it at all it's a fun life so I'm very lucky I appreciate you having me on man I love what you do yeah I gotta come do yours before the end of the year yeah I would love that I would really love that we'll make it happen man thanks pal Jim Norton thank you so much thank you Theo now I'm just floating on the breeze And I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take