#611 - Louis C.K.

31:20I mean, there's times he takes on some abuse a couple of times. And I was like, God, it's like you like. Yeah. I mean, there's parts, especially toward like the later parts of the book. So harrowing some you're like, God, why can't he? Why doesn't he know better? Yeah. Yeah. He's he's he's just simple. I mean, it's not simple like mentally challenged. He just hasn't had any. Like Dennis Rodman or whatever? Or who else is I going to say? That's not fair. Or no, somebody else. Dennis Rodman is anything but simple. You're right. That's a great. Complex dude. Yeah, he's a fucking Rubik's Cube of a man.

31:58All the stickers are different. There's not even one color is the same. Yeah, dude, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, even one of those Indian kids couldn't put that guy. Yeah, I know. Forget it. yeah that was a bad choice but um but yeah dude there was times you're like ah yeah you feel for him that much and you did such a great job of making me feel for him oh thanks i can't tell like how i got to know him so good as i'm reading it well i i guess uh i don't know for boys it's this thing of getting thrown out into the world a little bit I was alone a lot as a kid and out in the street just trying to figure out what life is.

32:41And you just become – you're kind of a – a boy is kind of a microcosm of a human ape turning into a human being. You know what I mean? Like adapting. That's a good point. Evolution's right there. Yeah, evolution from the first day of life, especially if you're kind of left alone. Yeah. If you spend a lot of time alone as a boy, you're just catch as catch can. And then you go, oh, I guess that's what this is like. And some things you get strong at and some you don't. And some things you learn from the worst influences too. It just happens to be the influence that was passing through town. That's right.

33:16Or that stopped and rolled its window down. It's kind of crazy the way you can get influence. That's kind of what happens to him in some ways, huh? Yeah, like there's this one part where he's been working on a farm, like just pulling up corn and he makes money in dimes. I know. Just because it's the first currency that he learned to respect was the 10 cent dime. So he makes them pay him in dimes and he hides them under a tree. And when he decides to leave the farm, he digs them up and he falls asleep in his cabin and he wakes up and there's this guy there about to steal his money. And Ingram at this point has a little knife and he's thinking he's going to have to defend himself.

33:55He's going to have to stick this guy. But he's trying to figure out because he's never been taught. Is it okay to actually harm somebody for money? Like is it – to defend yourself is one thing. But to defend this thing – Yeah. And then it occurs to him that the guy might be a little scared even though he's bigger than him, even if it's a kid. Like it's not easy to beat the shit out of a kid. Right. Like it's no small thing. so yeah they're resilient kids survive yeah i mean you're gonna go through something so so ingram says to the guy uh why don't we split it and the guy goes i don't have to split it with you i can just take it he goes yeah you can but it's gonna be trouble i'm gonna give you a hard time i'll split it with you now and by it's my money but i'll give you half of it if we could just split it and then they look at it and neither of them know how to count so they got that problem But I didn't know where it was going.

34:55I got to this moment in it where they're in this standoff, and I was like, what's his solution? But by following his logic and the way he looked at life without having been taught, he found solutions that just came to me naturally that I wouldn't have found in life. Do you know what I mean? You just get taught things. Like, anybody fucks with you, you have to hurt them. Right. You do, you know? Let's split the difference. Yeah. Split them out. I'll take half. I'll take half. I'll take half and nobody has to throw a punch. I stay alive. And also, I don't have to feel the pain of if I stabbed you and if I shouldn't have.

35:30That's right. Which can be just as harrowing. Of course. You got to walk around in life knowing you stabbed somebody for$100. Yeah. Oh, dude. There's a lot of great parts. Man, honestly, bro, it's awesome. It was so much fun to read. It reminded me of like, I mean, this sounds crazy, but it reminded me of like a real book. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I feel the same way. To me, it still doesn't add up to me or make sense that I wrote a book. I grew up in a world of books. You look at a book, you're like, well, nobody. That's somebody else. Yeah. Somebody else can do that, not me. And I've tried. I've written short stories and things that have sputtered out.

36:05When I got to the end, like when the publishers, I got a publisher, this place, Ben Bella. Simon & Schuster, is that you're with? Yeah, Simon & Schuster is distributing it. Okay. The publisher is a company called Ben Bella out of Texas. Really nice people. and when I started working with them and they were going through the book in the editorial part they they said it was kind of curious that I say the end because it's like a Grimm's fairy tale like nobody does that anymore but I asked to keep it because that's to me it was crazy that I got there yeah I couldn't believe I got to the end and I was just like the day I finished this I was like I wrote a fucking novel and uh you know if I wasn't me with a little bit of sense that I could probably sell something i don't know that it gets out i have no idea um and everybody that's right i haven't i haven't had anybody read it that hates me so i don't know if it's good but uh you know i don't know folks can buy it it's yeah it was great and i know it comes for it's you can pre-order it now yeah it's on september 20th 20th not november it's coming out november mid-november okay uh but you can pre-order it's good if people pre-order it because then they'll they'll print more but the ranks up yeah get it up there get it up and look i'm not you joking guys like i you know i like to read i really it like especially for like a young man like um if you've had neglect in your life or you wonder like how a child would start to absorb the world um with not even not even being taught how to be much of a sponge in a way kind of like i mean it's just fascinating and it was it was it took i was just right there in it i was right there in it with him it takes place in texas right yeah oklahoma texas or something texas and so like yeah he's just like walking along the highway and these car like things are cars are badly things he's never even seen any of it it's all fucking great yeah he calls the pavement hard black dirt because he doesn't really know what because you grew up barefoot in the dirt and it amazed me i was like oh shit somebody can do this i think i think that was probably the because like you know you and i know each other and i knew that i know like your comment i know that and then i i i've gotten to know you some as a person but then to see that somebody can make this and it's a real fucking book i have a lot of friends that have made some okay books right you know what i'm saying i'll buy them i'm not reading them but this I was like man I wrote another one I just finished the second one and if I can make that what I do I'm going to make that what I do like I see in the when you get a vision of what you want your future to be you might get 40 % of it and that's okay with me but what I like is the idea of having kind of like a nice cruising altitude stand up comedy performing and writing novels because I really love doing it and now that I wrote one and the second one was a lot it took me much longer I spent a year and two months on the second one because this one I was like wanted to finish so that I wouldn't not finish it but now that I know I can finish one I feel like I got a flow it's really fun to do yeah and do you think it's the most because all I wanted to be I think when I was a kid was a writer probably like I love to read John Irving I loved once I got into his stuff it was like so exciting like all the different possibilities and the ways that like, who was that Irish lady?

39:40Flannery O 'Connor. Yeah. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. What an imagination. Yeah. I was like, I could be a murderer. She has this story about a kind of cranky woman who lives alone on a farm. She like runs a farm and she's just tough. And the guy next door who's black, she's every, I mean, the N word, talk about the N word, Flannery O 'Connor. it's like fucking polka dots on wallpaper. It's everywhere. It's just everywhere. If you like some soft use of it. Yeah. But so in this story, the guy next door has a bull that keeps getting loose and coming over to her property and she hates it. And it's this, this justice, you're in this woman's crankiness.

40:25And it's really something to be like, instead of like this thing where we watch Karens on YouTube and say, that's somebody else. she takes you inside the mind of a very bitter and cranky person who just doesn't like the world she's in and in the end of the story it's a short story uh the book the uh the bull gores her to death the the bull gets his fucking horns in her stomach and rips her to pieces oh yeah and and flannery which some black neighbor males will get if you leave your wife around yeah and she she uh She dies, and the book stays in her head while she's dying. So you get to, like, you see the lights get brighter, and you see some, I don't remember.

41:11I read this for a long time ago. Green leaf, it says. I don't know if that's the one, but does she die with a bull at the end? One day, Miss May is upset to find a stray bull on her property. She's worried that the bull will breed with her milk cows. That's it, right. She blames Mr. Greenleaf. Yeah. Who appears reluctant to confront the bull. Yeah. There it is. But before she dies, Mrs. May has a moment of spiritual clarity. The story notes that she has the look of a person whose sight has been suddenly restored, but who finds the light unbearable. I mean, what the fuck? And this is the thing.

41:53Flannery O 'Connor was just a regular person in America. And it kind of, one of the reasons that I wrote Ingram is because I live in a world, New York City, you know, modern culture and, but this America has always had this voice. People like Flannery O 'Connor, Mark Twain, who were, or Harper Lee, who were born in little places, quiet little places, people like you, you have this kind of a voice where it's not through like Harvard education and like, you know, reading. It's, it's just that the American voice is very eloquent, simple and eloquent. With that sentence I just wrote of hers, that's not a collegiate sentence.

42:45That's like someone who lived in an old house and walked really far to the grocery store and had thoughts like that. That's what you grew up in some parish. You know, people, from where I'm from, a word parish just sounds so exotic. It's just a different, you grew up in America and it made you an eloquent person. Like Abraham Lincoln, he, a lot of years of Abraham Lincoln's life, He lived in a lean-to with an open that he would lay with his family and there was no wall. And he'd see like a jaguar come up and sniff the family and he'd just lay there. And he ended up saying some of the most beautiful things ever said just by opening his mouth.

43:29Right. I just think that America has that language in it. And I started to hear this kid and I thought, I wonder if I can make a connection with somebody who sounds like that. And that's a humble, I don't know that I did it, but I, but that's what I was trying to touch. When you're listening to Ingram, help him guide you to write the book. Yeah. That's cool. Something like that. Yeah. No. And look, man, I, you just have such a, I mean, like, I just, you're so good at like, you're like the guy who's like, say like your feelings and everything was like a cave or whatever. and everybody's at the top and they're like, we can't go in there, you know?

44:11And they're not even, there's like one brave Mexican guy who's like selling fucking snow cones or something, but not a lot. At the mouth of the cave? At the mouth, yeah, but it's close. It's no abierto. No abierto. Yeah, yeah. And he says that. Yeah, no abierto. But you want a snow cone? That's it, right? He's overlooking. Because it's capital. 50 centavos para un snow cone.

44:39but then you walk up and you have like your fucking spelunking gear and shit like who the fuck yeah is this psychopath yeah you go but you're like i'll be back and people are like what you can't go in there look at all the signs there's like a million signs you're like no no i've been in here i spent a lot of time in here i left something down there yeah i left one a favorite pack of bubble gum down there that's right um yeah it feels like so good at going in there and like just being in there man but also getting in there and getting in there and like seeing what the like stalactites are that are hang-ups in our time or in our feelings in our existence in what it means to evolve like personally like man you're just like such a archaeologist of, I don't know what it is.

45:32I don't know if it's emotions or feelings or just of existing kind of. Well, that's what I love to try to do. What you're describing is what I try to do. I've never heard it that way, but that's what it does feel like is, is being a God, bringing people to these places and going, it's okay. It's, it's, you can look at this. Yeah. without, um, letting it hurt you or you can let it hurt and you're going to be okay on the other side. It's okay. Right. And, uh, having that, and because I've been doing standup for 40 years now, like I'm very beyond taking it personally. So if I say something to a crowd and I feel them resist, I don't take, I don't go like, Oh, they don't like me now.

46:24That's one. One of the problems of being a stand-up is you're so exposed personally. So if they don't like something, you feel like you take it on. But I'm okay with any outcome. Like they're all okay. So if I say something and people just go, what? I go, cool, now we're here. Now we're here that you're weirded out. There's a bunch of places we can go from here because I see it all as okay. I think I see every feeling is worth having. especially if you don't like I kind of came up with this new idea in my life recently which is that your feelings are like fire and you warm yourself by them you sit by the fire of the feeling you don't get in it and let it burn you but you also don't go away because it's it's hot you don't go away from it and then you're cold out there and there's no light just sit and just let it you know what I mean yeah so I'm trying to get better at that I think a lot of early in life if I was more brutal about like, yeah, look at this shit.

47:24This is fucked up. Look at this shit. And that's just kind of messy. But I'm trying to get a little more refined at taking people to hard things to talk about and going like, let's just sit next to this for a second. And how does it feel to be next to this? You know? Yeah, what are we doing here? Get used to it. Yeah, because every experience in life, certainly feelings are, I think feeling is living. You know, I used to think thinking was more or learning, but I think feeling, when people really feel they're right on, you know what I mean? Yeah. Feelings are never wrong. Ooh, yeah, they're pretty pure, huh?

48:02They are. Even if you may not agree with somebody's feeling or something, it's interesting to see why they have it if you believe that it's pure from them. Well, it also goes back to that lady's quote, to Flannery O 'Connor's quote. I mean, that's more like about feeling in there. Yeah, I finally saw the world and it was unbearable. And it is, especially when you first really see it. But if you're willing to, like Chris Rock, he's a good friend and he's sometimes a mentor. He says great things. Oh, he's the best comedian. He's always been my favorite. I remember every time I've gone to him in a tough moment, he's never let me out of it.

48:41like I called him once I was doing a pilot for the show Lucky Louie that I sitcom and after the we did two shows we did two performances of the pilot and after the first one I was like I'm terrible and I called him up and I said I'm really scared I think I might just be a bad actor and he said yeah wow yeah that's scary shit he wasn't like you're great man he was like yeah well you better study your lines. I mean, cause maybe you are. And I was like, Oh, okay. And at the same time, like I shot a special once I did two shows and after the first show I called him, I said, I just killed. And he said, you did nothing.

49:23Go do it again. You did nothing. He's a guy that makes you really look at it. And, uh, wow. That's cool. That's cool to be that kind of friend. Yeah. It's cool to be that kind of like challenger to challenge people. Well, just to be real, I think, you know. So true, huh? Like in Rocky, you know, in Rocky, one of the great things about Rocky is that it's a sports movie where the guy loses, you know. I don't think most people even realize that Rocky loses the fight at the end. But the big moment in Rocky is when he's talking to Adrian the night before the fight. You know, he goes to the ring and he sees the spectacle.

49:59And he's been training and they play the music and he went like this. But then the night before the fight, he goes back home to Adrian and he says, I can't beat him. It's just a fact I can't beat him. He's just in another class. I'm not even close to him. I will not win. And instead of saying, you can do it, Rock, she goes, what are we going to do? She just lets that be real. And she goes, what are you going to do? And then he decides I'm going to pick my own victory. I can't beat him, but I bet I could stand there while he beats me. I bet I can get through the fight to the end. Wow. what a great goal and that's what he does and at the end of the fight yeah apollo creed wins and ragi doesn't give a shit because he got what he wanted yeah i think and if somebody's honest with you if there's some if you there's a real piece of honesty there then you can navigate from that place that's right which is pretty real as opposed to like things that are so placated and then you're you're kind of in this fictional space like yeah i'm not gonna win you know but now you're like, okay, how can I win?

50:59How do I find a way to do this, to navigate this? Yeah. Or what do I do about that? I'm not going to, what else is there? It's not the end of the world. Cause both things like saying you can do this fantasy is nowhere. You don't have, it doesn't take anywhere, but all in the same with doom, I can't do anything. I got nothing. Now, where are you? This is reality. and usually it's your feelings that will navigate you to where is like in like rocky did i can't win there it is but what do i and then he goes inside his heart and goes i don't have to win i just don't want to quit i just want to do that one thing of standing there that i because i've had a hard life because i've never gotten anything i wanted that i know i can do that means i can be get the shit beat out of me on national TV, but I could do it for 12 rounds.

51:53Most people can only do it for eight. Yeah. That's fucking good. And it goes back to like finding that thing, like finding the word, finding what is the thing that you really need, right? Yeah, the word. He would have liked to have won for sure, but what does he really want? What's the real victory for him? That's right. Yeah, what is victory? What is it to be victorious? What is it to be? right like somebody might be working their butt off to make money but it's like do you really want money do you want to do you like that may be it but is that just a block sometimes we get caught in with like this general goal of society or we all get like herded into what the goal is supposed to be without looking at what exactly it is that we want yeah which makes sense because people coalesce so that they can survive yeah so human beings are shitty animals they're like really a human being out in the wilderness, it's not worth much.

52:49But you group together and you're good. So it's kind of like all the things that are hard about life are because of what we're good at. People fight and attack each other, but they're trying to, in a way, get closer together. You know what I mean? I mean, in other words, when people say you shouldn't be doing that because that's not not what everybody else is doing. Their heart's in the right place because we all want to be. The weird thing is that now a lot, you get rejected for coming together. Like it's the opposite. It's a weird time right now. It's like a car battery can have a polarity reversal where it gets confused and suddenly north is south, south is north.

53:35We've done something weird where the accepted thing is to be separate. The accepted thing is to be like enemies of each other. You know what I mean? And to, if you say, if you move towards the middle of any issue, people start getting nervous because they want you to, the safe place is these extremes. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I noticed that. But that's not what we're good at. That's not what got us through the ice age and the, you know, and that's not what got us out of the food chain. Yeah. What got us out of the food chain was like just put aside your shit and try to see other people as important to you so that you'll work together.

54:16But now it's like scary to say, I don't know. I'm like this guy even though he's not like me. You know what I mean? You can get ostracized for being – for love. It's a weird time. And I have to believe – You can get ostracized for being accepting. Yes, that's right. There is a sign at one of the theaters I did this week. It says, hatred will not be allowed here. Our policy towards hatred is zero tolerance. But that's a weird. Right. We hate hatred. Zero tolerance is something you're, that's hate, that's hate, isn't it? Yeah. Zero tolerance and hatred are opposites. Yeah. So hatred and zero tolerance are equal.

55:15They're the same. Like no hatred of any kind, it's said. I'm like, what about I hate my dad a little bit? Yeah. Yeah, how do I even get that out of my system before I go in here to watch a matinee? Yeah. So, I don't know. I think, yeah, that's like, but it's not human nature there. I have like a faith in the way things are going to go because, and also I see it like, you know, whenever people complain about like, everybody always says this, right. You hear that a lot. You can't say this without saying that everybody does this. The group that behaves that way is shrinking and shrinking and shrinking.

55:52Cause if you really go out on the street, if you get off the, if you look at people in the eyes and and you see people every day, most people are just like really eager to find each other again and reaching out to people as unlike them as they can find and wanting to find love and common ground. That's how human beings behave. And sometimes there's a confusion that scatters them. But it doesn't last, I don't think. I don't think it can. I mean, if it does, then everybody will. And that's what will happen. and that'll be the test we didn't pass. Yeah. Oh, the test we didn't pass. Yeah, I mean, it may come or it might not.

56:36Louis, what if it comes then? We'll get to it. Some of us can do it. Some of us can. Nothing, you can't, you know. We have to have a meeting though. If things get really bad, we all have to meet somewhere. Where would we meet?

56:52I don't know, maybe Denver or something. yeah some place where the air is clean the water's clean still so you have like a surviving chance yeah altitude cures some diseases you don't even some stuff you don't even get at altitude really yeah or the amish you know the amish have one tenth of the um attention deficit disorder really that regular they have aids a lot though i heard yeah amish aids is like it's kind of oh no i look dude amish look yeah i'm not surprised many folks have a money goal something they're aiming for financially maybe saving up to buy a car or a kite or a new outdoor home for your cat well acorns is here to help acorns makes it easy to give your money a chance to grow.

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1:00:36As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. our listeners get 10 off their first month at betterhelp.com slash theo that's better h-e-l-p dot com slash t-h-e-o in um the amish like uh i don't know how i don't know if it was like maybe 20 years ago somebody started recording just on people's genealogy right like a book yeah and that's kind of their dictionary that they'll keep it through google where they'll go and look and be like, oh, who is that? I've heard of them.

1:01:16And how do I know them? And they have this, and it's like a recurring book that a lot of different families and districts, that's what they live in, called. Like it's a lot of times it's associated with their church. And so they'll have one of the, it's their Google. It's like, oh, go look and see who they are. And you can see how much land they have or animals. You can see all kinds of things about a certain family, what the children's names are and stuff. So they kind of have their own book. That's like a form of Google right there. Descendants of Abe Troyer and Lucinda Summers. That's the book?

1:01:44I mean, it's basically something like that because, I mean, they started off from just a couple of folks, you know. It's all records of stuff is fascinating. Like the people used to have to just write everything down. Yeah. Forget, you know. I was at the New York Public Library once. And at the New York Public Library, the big one with lions in front, they have every book there, like ever. And some of them, you can look at anything you want. Some of them you got to put gloves on. Nuh-uh. Because they're very old. Yeah. And I was looking for something about Gloucester, Mass. And I don't want to describe what I was looking for because it's just boring.

1:02:22But I found this book that was like the shipping logs for Gloucester back in the 1700s. And I read it. And it's like an old writing. And it just said in this winter, 16 ships were lost. There were 34 new widows and 54 orphans and stuff like that. and just like just record keeping but that would make you cry you know what i mean um yeah dude things were so severe back yeah we're fucking it's man i'm not but a lot of us are yeah no we but when it comes to our feelings we don't wait like we're just i don't know we're just we're softer now yeah it used to be like or we're harder i think people aren't feeling as much you know they're avoiding their feelings i think people are scared of their feelings but your feelings are native.

1:03:11Like there's no feeling that's going to kill you. It's just not, uh, avoiding a feeling will kill you. But, um, we do a lot, you know, in addiction and stuff like that to stay away from feeling something. Oh yeah. I mean, even you were talking earlier about go, you like, uh, like a feeling is like a warm place. Sometimes you want to get right by it. Yeah. Like I was thinking the other day and I've thought about this before, but I was rekindling the thought that, um, yeah, Sometimes I don't want to change certain behaviors just because I don't want to. Part of you wants to have an excuse because it gives you an excuse not to, so that other things don't happen.

1:03:50Like there'd be times where I didn't want to quit smoking because I was like, well, if I quit smoking, then I'll have to find something else positive to do. I won't have the excuse that, oh, I can't do that because I'm smoking or I don't want to feel that because I'm smoking. because I would go to smoking a lot of times if I was like I had an intense feeling or if I, you know, felt rejected or I wanted, you know, like it became this kind of like a bit of like a shower curtain to shield me from like real moments, you know? Yeah, well, when your life becomes a series of shit you do, you know, I smoke, I eat barbecue, I drink at night, I watch this.

1:04:31Then you can avoid like a day of just being on earth under the fucking swirling sky. It's fucking intense. Like if you're really paying attention, if you really wake up to the present moment, it's fucking terrifying. It's constantly moving. Nothing's promised. Everything that you've accomplished is gone. And you're just in this. And so if you could just set out a bunch of stupid tasks and like, and like habits, you know, and whatever all ladies night at whatever it is, you know, bowling and going to see that. And now they've turned, there's this, this screen on your phone where you don't need to even choose what that is.

1:05:13Yeah. you just let this feed just kind of keep you glazed over. Just serving cunt. Serving cunt all night long. That's crazy. And nobody's even sleeping anymore. Oh, that's so cool. And you just kind of go to this thing, and you're not feeling nothing. These are fake feelings. These are fake feelings in a safe environment. Can't believe she did that. Right. I can't believe he said it. What a piece of shit. Why are they getting on his case? Like all these just dumb things and like, you know, just keeping it going. It used to be that they used to call a thing clickbait where they make something so juicy that people would click on it.

1:05:54But nobody's clicking much anymore. It's just going by. It's just that feed. So they're just going like this and that's living now. The thing I don't understand is who's benefiting because if everybody's doing this, I don't know, eight different people are getting incredibly rich. Oh, yeah, and the rest of us are really going to turn into – Just – and the phone is burning a circuit somewhere. You know, when your phone is doing that scroll, there's a physical thing that's – there's like a little light that's burning somewhere, like in North Carolina at a data farm. Yeah, this isn't – like it's not in the phones not really doing the work.

1:06:35There's something else that's making that. There's a processor that's doing that and put it on the cloud and bringing it to your phone. but there's smoke going in the air hot smoke every time you you just go like this and everybody's doing this all the time oh in the in the middle of the night i'll wake up literally it's almost like i have to do it for like a minute so i can go back to sleep i'm not even joking i'll wake up i'll see like four things i'll be okay yeah yeah racism murder yeah just to get just as a blanket like murdered like a little yeah get you back to sleep yeah someone's dead okay good oh good a A little bit of racism.

1:07:11Yeah. Finally, I was going to get a sip of water, but that'll do it. No, it's very bad for you, and it's such a lucrative addiction. Yeah. And people are convinced that that's where they're going to go to convince people of what's right and wrong, and that's where you sell stuff. Yeah. So everyone just gave into it. And it's like if we were all doing heroin, but somebody somehow stopped calling it heroin. And the machines that make that, that make that, that run those processes are going to get hotter and hotter and AI and all that stuff. Oh, the data centers are getting crazy, man. Yeah. It's going to be nuts.

1:07:48There is, I was reading an article about in Virginia, they, they want to use farmland a lot for the solar panel because the companies that do data don't like they, you know, they have a style, so they don't want to be, they don't want to burn coal. You know, they don't want to burn oil. Right, because it does. Yeah, that seems bad. It seems not cool. Yeah, so nuclear, no problem. All of a sudden, like, that's no longer a problem. And solar, right? But solar is, like, heavy. So it takes a lot of those things, which are made in China, and they pollute a lot just to make them. The panels? The panels.

1:08:24But anyway, in Virginia, there was this county where they're trying to get these panels out because they're putting them on the farmland. So in other words, there used to be farm fields where the sun, the natural sun would touch the soil and make green to eat and to make oxygen. It's like the most perfect thing. Right. And they're putting these fucking black panels over the flowers to catch the sun and use it instead. so you and i can doom scroll and a lot of the um the data centers they're they're using up like a lot of the water right they're using up a lot of like power in places like they're monopoly and they're building them everywhere everywhere and it's happening fast and we started to look at well like we're talking with that sam altman guy he's a chat gbt's like started that right yeah and i was saying well do you feel like the earth could look like bring up that picture that we had it was like the whole earth is covered in panels and it's kind of what we see when we watch like star trek yes or like doctor who i don't know if you ever watched that show but like there's if you if you look at um water towers like it used to be you going to an old town like in the middle of kansas or something and folks are still wearing like cowboy hats they're still driving old gmc trucks with faded side panels like going into a place like that is very beautiful.

1:09:53When you look at the water towers now, which these faded, beautiful, big tanks in the sky, they're crusted over with these cell phone things. You could probably find an image like that. Oh, they attached them all to them now? Yeah, they're all over. And it's like they're completely covered in them now. And it's very ugly. And it feels like a mold. Like if you look at it, it feels like there's just this weird. And so when you look at the combination of that with people on the streets staring into a rectangle of black of nothing, you know what I mean? A black rectangle. Yeah. And everyone's just going like this.

1:10:35And there's these crusty things. It makes it feel like a creature in a way. But it's not. I don't have some idea that it's from the outside. It's like something inside of us wanted so badly to not feel or something. It started little. Like, this feels good, you know? With looking at our screens and stuff? Yeah, or like television first. I mean, it started with like theater maybe. Oh, dioramas, I remember. Remember that? Sure. Yeah, or like stereo photos. Yeah. People used to hold up a thing. You could see. Fucking peeping Tommen was good. Yeah, and like peeping. like a girl with like, you know, little titties and heavy hips.

1:11:16And you put a nickel in. That's where it started. Yeah, porn is the whole thing. But that thing became let's all go to a movie theater and everybody would go sit in a theater together or vaudeville and then TV. Then we went home by ourselves to do it. And it got, you know what I mean? More and more. We definitely got really used to it. Yeah. it happened gradually but it's become something really fucking weird oh yeah i mean you're sitting there and you know you start to notice when you're looking at your screen and then when you'll come out of it you know but uh and you're saying it's like a molten like a crab like a shell yeah and they start to like get other like barnacles and things on barnacles it starts to oh for sure it's barnacles of avoidance of like love avoidance yeah you know what i mean oh and maybe it's because we like did you see the eclipse that happened back in a couple years ago or april i did man dude i heard one of the most racist things while i was watching it too i hate to even bring that up what did you hear i was standing next to a guy and i'm assuming the guy was racist just because of what he said he was talking to one of his buddies yeah and the eclipse was happening and he goes oh look at that even the sun wants to be uh and he said the n-word oh my god i was like God.

1:12:32You know, on its face, you could take that as a... being... loving black people. Yeah, I just... Even the son. Like, if you say it like this. Brother, even the son wants to be a black man. Yeah. You could take it like that. Yeah. You could convert what the guy said and make it that now. That's a great point, actually. Yeah. You know what? And that is actually most racism, I think, is envious. Oh, for sure. Everybody wants to be one of those guys, man. Even the sun. I mean, some racism gets beautiful because that's beautiful. Yeah. That's poetic. Even the sun wants to be a black man. That's what he's – what's hurting him is not that black people are bad.

1:13:14It's that everybody wants to be one. Yes. Damn it. That's a – Even the sun. Like somebody gets so racist that they become – that they – I remember when Obama was running for president. Yeah. And there was Sarah Palin's rallies. Some people would yell out racist shit. Yeah. Every time she mentioned his name, they'd go, all right, here we go. Yeah. So she said his name and this woman with a real, like, town, you know, a real, you know, old movies with pitchforks and torches, you know. Some lady yelled out about Obama. You need gloves to touch him. and I was like woo but I thought there's a few ways to look at that oh it's priceless yes and also like some part of her is going I want to touch him why can't I touch him but I need gloves because he's just because he's precious or like you need gloves to touch him there's a lot in that you know what do you want to touch him for man you need gloves to touch him you need gloves well you could also just leave them alone but something in you really wants to touch them but you're scared to it's a complex thing yeah oh yeah the truth of that dude yeah i remember the first time a black man touched my hand one time and it was different sure how old were you i was probably

1:14:4510 or something nine why do you touch your hand well i went over to my buddy's house and they were swimming just in like this little kind of round little i don't know if it was a pool or just like it had tetanus in it or whatever it was like it's like a it was like a something for animals they put water in it so we're just playing in there and swimming in there whatever and this guy this black man had come and he was kind of like tickling us and stuff sometimes i think he was being okay i don't know if he was but that's but anyway i don't know but he but then he lifted me up out of the thing too and i just remember like also he like touched my hand and i just was like oh that's interesting this was like kind of interesting yeah dude i remember i walked into a black doctor yeah this is in nashville this is two years ago yeah i never walked into a room in my life with a black doctor huh yeah and i was like whoa yeah and i wasn't like you know i was it's new if something's new yeah and i was like you guys everybody you know looks at the same books or charts or you know i just didn't know you know it's almost like when you're at foot locker and there's a white woman working in there you know i'm saying like and you're like this is interesting yeah i support i'm here for it last time i was in a foot locker i bought these in a footlocker oatmeal colored new balance i got them in a footlocker in salt lake city oh yeah and a young guy i mean i am really an old man when i'm in a retail situation i'm just older and uh and this young guy helped me and he took me through a few different ideas and he let me try some different things he took the stuffing out of the sneakers for me that set me up yeah Yeah.

1:16:36And then I tried him on. He was patient while I walked around feeling like, what's this like? Yeah. He really – he was like my mom like shoe shopping with me. Oh, yeah. And he was maybe 19. And I could tell he was kind of fidgeting like this guy is making me do a lot. But I bought the sneakers and I did something that I think my dad used to do and that I used to do when I was – I don't know when. But I shook his hand at the end. Just changed the money and I said, thanks very much. and I shook his hand and he was like, what the fuck is this? He didn't know what that was. But that used to be, it's like, you know, it's the proprietor.

1:17:14It's like you're going to the haberdashery and you think, you know. Good work. Yeah. Thanks for your help today. Appreciate that. He was just like, what's being done with my arm right now? Yeah. It is crazy though. Yeah. That there will be a time soon, Louis, where people will be like, so we used to take a guy's hand that you didn't know. Yeah. And move it up and down. Yeah, we used to pump it. For two seconds. Yeah. yeah some people dap that's okay the handshake was for real but then now people are nervous too i think when they're around other people people have wet hands and that is scaring a lot of people well when you shake hands you take you really connect because every finger has a different intention and the thumb and you grip someone with the perfect balance of like i don't want to hurt you but i want you to i don't want to make you feel like you're here with me i want to you know what i mean yeah and then we're gonna i don't know what the shake is about though yeah bring that up why did the hands shake after they touch yeah i could see them touching you know like whenever they try to make movies about like middle ages or like you know the places of lore like lord of the rings or like the future they always reinvent like they do like the crap the clasp of the you do this thing um but uh a handshake is uh a globally widespread brief greeting or a parting tradition in which two people grasp one.

1:18:35One, you do it. And two people grasp one of each other's hands, and it is often accompanied by a brief up-and-down movement of the grasped hands. Customs surrounding handshakes are specific to cultures. The handshake may have originated in prehistory as a demonstration of peaceful intent since it shows that the hand holds no weapon. I like that. Another possibility is it originated as a symbolic gesture of mutual commitment to an oath or promise. One of the earliest known depictions of a handshake is an ancient Assyrian relief of the 9th century BC depicting the Assyrian king Shalmaneser III clasping the hand of the Babylonian king Marduk Zakir Shumi.

1:19:16So there's a picture of that down there, right? Yeah, two guys, two kings that were probably just fighting. And they said, hey, let's settle it. I can't hurt you for this one second. Right, no swords. Yeah, because I'm using my fighting hand. It's going to be punched with the left. It's going to be weird. That's a good point because they both have a staff in one hand that shows that they've been walking. The other hand would grab the sword there. Yeah, that's your sword hand. Yeah, brother. You can get close to me. It's all right. You've got my hand. I've got yours. Right. Or even Steven, brother.

1:19:52But that gives me back to that fucking eclipse, that racist eclipse. Yeah. Because I saw the eclipse in Vermont. Up in Stowe, Vermont, or where were you? In the center of Lake Champlain. At the time, I was dating a woman who was very wonderful. We were together for about a year. We're not together now. She sounded hot. She was great. So we decided we wanted to see the eclipse totality. You know, like there's certain places where there's like a line across America, like this diagonal line. And only if you stood in that line could you actually see the sun totally. Oh, OK. So it's a real hotbed for eclipsing.

1:20:41Yes. It's where you see the actual the moon totally cover the sun and you go into total darkness. It's called totality. Any other place you'd get a little it's a little off and it's still basically daylight. Got it. And so we decided to go and I looked on that line and the place that was best for where we were in New York was an island in the middle of Lake Champlain. And she's like, I have a cousin who lives on that island. It's like North Hero Island, I think it's called. And so we went there and it was kind of like a thing to get. We got there an hour before the eclipse started. and we're seeing people scurrying to where they're going to watch the eclipse it was like the world was coming to an end folks were getting coolers with stuff and folks were you know everyone and the closer we got the more quiet the streets got and now people were just sitting in lawn chairs all over vermont like just like this getting ready and they all had these glasses on yeah and it was just like and we're the only car it was like as like a end of the world movie hell yeah and we get there and her cousins are all carrying big baggies of cigarettes because they buy their cigarettes at an Indian reservation where they don't sell them in boxes.

1:22:02They get a deal on them? Yeah, they get a big Oh God, yeah. So they just walk around with a bag and just take it and smoke and these were great people. We were like right in the right place. It's just a dead end road on an island in a Vermont, you know. and uh we went out into the middle me and this woman we went out into the middle of this field where the and uh and we could hear so as the thing started and everything started going not black but brown there was this brown the the sun disappeared behind the moon and every bird fucking lost its mind every bird was like what the fuck like you could hear every bird in its own language saying, bitch, this is fucked up.

1:22:48Shit. Like just screaming. And then people going, woo. And then everything was dark and cold, like really cold. And it was an incredibly moving thing. And I thought, and then I heard people, there was fireworks going off. And the feeling I had was, the immediate thought I had was, this is what the end of the world is going to feel like. the end of the world is going to be beautiful because it's going to bring everybody together because you can finally just forget it all you can finally just go here it's you and me brother you know yeah make a sandwich yeah let's just we let's just i got nothing against you like boxers at the end of it like just seconds ago i was and now i just love you so much that everybody's gonna that nothing that has ever happened is gonna matter at all like warden gaudy man yes warden Gatti.

1:23:39Like just fine at the end, just going like, man, I loved struggling with you. I got to know you so well in fighting with you. I saw your wounds. I saw how you hurt me and oh my God. And it's going to be this ultimate, especially if we end it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. We're just going to be like, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. Oh, thank God. Finally, finally, I got in close enough. Uh, and we're together now and there's nothing, And all that's left is this one second. Yeah. Because I don't think that time is like, like my sister asked me once, are you afraid when you die, it's not going to feel like it was long enough?

1:24:16Are you afraid when you die, you're going to feel like that wasn't enough life? Yes. Are you? I think so. I'm not anymore. because when I get a full moment of living, like when I feel open bore fucking, you know, aperture 0.08, that feels so good. I feel like that's it. I got it. You know what I mean? Like when you get a real moment of existing. Yeah, I'm like, that's enough. Right. Like it can be, and those moments can happen in all types of ways. All types of ways. Yeah. Sometimes it's just. Hugging a kid. Sometimes it's seeing a parent, you know, wipe a kid's cheek or something. Sometimes it's standing on a subway platform and seeing somebody's phone next to the track and going like, no.

1:25:02Yeah. Like, I see life now. There's so much in that one thing. That's so shitty. Sometimes it's reading that sentence by Flannery in that Flannery or Connor. Yeah, sometimes it's that, but sometimes it's just the dumb little... Oh, yeah. Just seeing somebody in their dumb little thing. Seeing one shoe on the fucking interstate? Yeah, just one. Fuck. That's not me. And then driving by the next day and it's not there anymore. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you've got it on and then you're like, oh, yeah, it's getting good. Oh, but, yeah, some people used to think the eclipse was just a time when you could use racial slurs and it didn't get it.

1:25:37That's right. It didn't. But somebody heard it. Yeah. But still. Now a lot of people heard it. Oh, yeah. But there is a little moment you're like, yeah, that's life. Yeah. So I don't know. I think it's enough. I'd really ambitious to live more. I love it. I'm getting to really love living a lot. Really? Yeah. Do you remember when we went to Chris Rock's birthday together? You took me there. It was an incredible night. Dude, that was so, first we went for Italian food. That night had no right to be that great. Oh, we were. All we did was go to an Italian restaurant. Yeah. And go to birthday party.

1:26:10Yeah. Can we say that we went to his birthday party or not? It's okay. It wasn't private. Yeah. It was a big party. Madonna was there. Yeah. She's little. I think we can say that we were there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We felt like misfits. Yeah. Yeah. We were like, this is weird. Cause it was super, super famous people. And yet the center of attention, Chris is like my best friend. So, but I, but it was like, this is not, I don't belong here. And I didn't belong there. Neither one. So we were just like a pair. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I was an outcast and you were in not let in. Yeah. The same party.

1:26:42Yeah. So we just had each other, dude. There was so much fun. And we were just standing in the corner, just going, this is so fucking weird. and looking at all the famous people there. And, and, and then Chris went up and he said, he took a microphone and he said, I, I, I feel like my life must've been good. Cause I got all these, these, cause all these people are here and especially the comedians who came to see me. And he said, Theo Vaughn and Louie, Louie brought Theo here. It was like the first thing out of his mouth was that I brought you there and how much that meant to him. And he said it like three or four times.

1:27:20It was interesting. I couldn't believe he said that. Yeah, and it ended up meaning more to him than all these other, like, big shots. It was, like, really, you know, and I hope that's okay for me to share. No, I think it is. I mean, I think it just showed that he was happy that you were there, you know? And that you were there. Oh, I couldn't believe that he said my name, but it was also just that, like, yeah, it was just so funny that we were there, we felt uncomfortable, and that he made it so we didn't feel uncomfortable. That's right. That's what I mean. Yeah. But, you know, Theo, you're like a bridge, you know, as a person.

1:27:49That's the way I think about you. Yeah? Yeah, because when I first saw you, it's because you invited me to be on here. Three years ago? Something like that? Yeah, 2002. 20. 2020. Two. Two. Three or four years ago. And somebody said, this guy wants you on a podcast. I hadn't done any interviews for a long time, and then I was just coming out to do interviews for the first time. I was pushing a special, whatever I was doing. And I saw a little clip of you and I was like, and I, I'm as bigoted as anybody. Oh yeah. So I was like mullet red state. I don't know. Fucking Southern. Yeah. Oh yeah. There's Jim Crow.

1:28:30Mud flap fucking. Yeah. Yeah. And without contempt because I love every kind of American. So I was just like, but, but you reached out with like a, we'd really like to have him on. And I was like, wow, let's meet somebody new. Meet somebody new. you know and uh and then i went and listened to your stand-up and i just couldn't believe how funny it was to me and how inventive and how uh beautiful like just really eloquent and funny fucking shit had me laughing so hard and then we sat down and and and talked and i never met anybody like you yeah i never met anybody that had such sort of uh open sensitivity and such honesty and um and you you're ambidextrous you you run all over the you can be loved by anybody who's willing, you know, and I've gotten to know you.

1:29:17You're beautiful. I love you, man. You're a great guy. And, uh, and you're an example of when somebody brings people together, folks get a little scared of them. You know, there's nothing, you're just willing. You're just, you, you know what I mean? You listen to anybody. It's the way I feel. Um, but, uh, you're like a really important guy in the world to me. I think, uh, yeah, well, well, thank you, dude. That's nice to you yeah i couldn't believe that yeah i just appreciated you bringing me over there it's been fun to like become friends and like you know like be able to talk to it's like yeah i don't know you just you're able just to think without a lot of judgment of yourself and i think that a lot it gives us so much information not a lot of people were like i don't know if it's bravery if you're just missing a governor inside of yourself right that needs to be there well we have something in common you and me because we're we're born in very different parts of the world uh different lives but we both are broken the same way yeah we'll have the same problem oh yeah and when you have that uh that's like a language barrier crosser you know what i mean it really is you just go like oh i get you i get i've seen this man i've seen it believe me really you see it oh yeah i know i fucking see it man so and you've helped me a lot you've been very kind to me and helped me a lot in ways I needed and you're younger than me but I you know you've kind of given me guidance and helped me but uh but that's the thing that makes people the closest is that is their common like you were fucked up the same way oh yeah oh yeah you're fucked up I'm fucked up yeah yeah yeah thank god thank god you're fucked up oh yeah because if I had to look at you and think that you weren't fucked up like me I'd just break my heart yeah dude you know Dude, yeah, I think when, yeah, like there was one time you said, oh, because you've been through, you've been through like a lot of like stuff in your career.

1:31:13You had like, you know, this is when things have gotten kind of crazy in your career with accusations and all types of stuff. And, and, and accurate accusations. Accurate accusations. And whatever they were. Yeah. Yeah. But, but you said, man, I feel so free. And there was something about that to me. I think about that once a week. Yeah. Because I think about just like the little pieces of ourselves that we like, that we try to manage and operate and we don't even know what they are and we don't even know why they're in pieces. It's like trying to put like some glass together so you can get a clear reflection of yourself.

1:31:50And it's just like, fuck, how did this? I didn't even break this. And I'm just so tired of cutting my fucking fingers trying to get a look at myself. Yeah. You know? Trying to piece together that broken mirror and cutting your fingers. That's beautiful. It's true. And when life fucks it up for you, when it gets torn up, it's a relief. That's why I felt free, you know? Yeah. Because I had tried to manage these problems I had inside of me for so many years. And I tried to feel like I was like a normal person. Yeah. Or that I was like what I thought of as a good person. But I was doing shit in the background of my life that I was ashamed of.

1:32:30I was hurting other people and trying to tell myself I wasn't. And those things on the edge like using another person, but you got their permission first, you're still using another person. You're not being with them. You're using them. That took me a long time to learn about that stuff. But when you're doing that stuff and creating more and more problems, they just keep getting bigger and bigger. And then the worst thing is if you're having a good life that's successful because you're feeling this like incredible rift between like the way you're representing yourself and who you really are. And it's getting really, and I used to try, I think some of the early versions of talking on stage really honestly were me trying to get out and say, I'm, I'm not, I'm, I'm corrupt.

1:33:12I want everybody to know it. Right. I'm a corrupt file. Yeah. And, um, a corrupt file. Yeah. And, uh, but all of that is like, you can't manage it. And so when you're in front of the world and that's going on inside you, it's just like a real, it's real hell. And so when it, and also when you are successful, because we live in America and there's like, you're taught it's a work, working community. Like you got to succeed. So when you're succeeding, you believe it's a perfect good. Everything you're getting is important, right? You're getting stature, you're getting work, you're getting money. Importance, people are saying good things about you, these things, you just believe that after a while you need those things.

1:33:54Anyway, when life comes along and just fucking, by the grace of my own fucking mistakes, my own fuck-ups, they all came back and took everything away from me. And it was the most thing I was most afraid of in the whole world. And it happened. The scariest possible thing. And it happened. Like now people know about me. They know, they like deeply know, and not perfectly either. Like Like there's – you know what I mean? Because it's fantastical fame world. So they hear their own version and I'm sitting there going like, wait, no, it's not quite like that and all that. It's like the worst thing that could happen happens.

1:34:31Yeah. And you lose everything you were working for and you – the people you hurt, everybody knows about it now. And also people who love you are hurt by it. I hurt a lot of people who love me by mismanaging that and letting and willfully becoming big enough as a famous person that the downfall hurt a lot of people, people I love. So it was like unbearable. Fuck. And. You ever be saying on stage one time, and I'll let you finish your thought. Am I messing up by interrupting you? Go ahead, Theo. Go. I remember you saying one time I was trying to find a flight to somewhere, but every flight was landed on Earth.

1:35:18It was all places to other places on Earth, and it was so unmanageable. Yeah, I didn't feel safe anywhere in the world. And I was full of a lot of self-pity. I was full of a lot of anger, too. And also, I just didn't feel safe in the world. I also didn't feel safe inside my own head anymore. And it was kind of like. Fuck, that's craziest. That's the hardest thing. You can kind of handle anything except for the inside of your own head when that gets, you know. Because I live in a world where, like I said before, like people coalesce, they come together, and that's our strength. So when you get dejected, love for yourself becomes antisocial.

1:36:01Do you know what I mean? Like sitting there going like, I'm a good person. And most people's mistakes, when people get fucked up the way that I had, it's because of a low self-esteem problem to begin with. So you're just – it's just – yeah, it's like – Yeah, you're just sitting there and you're trying to like feel something good about yourself. It's difficult. And so it was just very overwhelming. And – but the losses that I – like I had spent like – I don't know. I was – I wasn't like an overnight success. I was in my 40s when I got really famous, and I built to it very gradually. I worked really hard.

1:36:40I learned a lot. I got my own TV show because I learned how to make a TV show from the ground up. I was a cameraman at a local access cable station, and now I was a director and star. And I'd met so many people and had so many affiliations and a tapestry of a life, a career. And I remember thinking of it like all tentacles coming off the back of my head connecting me with the world. And when this thing happened, it was like someone twisted all of them into like a braid and put their foot on the back of my head and just pulled out all the wires. And all of a sudden I had no, nobody likes me. Nobody, everybody, you know, I can't talk to nobody.

1:37:26Nobody can. Everybody's afraid of me. And I was just spinning. It was really wild. felt but now i look at that that thing as like a beautiful thing it's like i look at that as like god's hands you know or whatever you want to call it that that was just like a good caring thing that said dude you need to stop you gotta be detached you need to stop you need out of all this and that's for me it was great not for other people in my life some people it was hard for them oh yeah i can certainly imagine that yeah i think it's scary i think having like a different yeah i mean i mean i've run like i've had a lot of the same issues in my life with just like affection and those sorts of things and trying to like never having like any coaching on that and just having severe like and then you start to figure out all yourself and you make these crazy like um like this crazy tetris of what it's all supposed to be and how love is and like and then it's also like um i'd be a like but my low self-worth i was always trying to fill it with like um things that weren't just just impossibility and then i mean for me i got into watching porn and that became this crazy spandest like never-ending thing i missed my 20s because i I was watching porn.

1:38:49You know, it's like. Same. I was a young kid, like really obsessed with stuff that put me in a dark room when I should have been out in the sunlight. Yeah. And it twisted around my set. And that was all behind this thing of wanting. It's just wanting someone lovely and female to look at me and tell me I'm okay. Oh, yeah. And tell me that I'm acceptable and even more so and lovable. And I had such a strange, twisted trip to that moment. Yeah. I never really quite learned it. And that's my shit. But those things when you're a kid, they're a pain. And then when you get to be a grownup with a life and you have an effect on other people, it starts becoming a problem for other people.

1:39:30So but I think that if I hadn't lost all of that, I would – it just would have gotten worse because that's why I felt free when I said that to you because I could see the real shape of the world. and I could see that nothing I had, that you can't take anything away from me that's really mine and that I realized I didn't have much that was worth having. I had my family and that's private. That's a different thing for me. But I realized I need to start making a real treasure chest that has shit in it. That's valuable. That's valuable. I need to stop thinking about why do these people turn their backs on me and ask myself, yeah, why did they?

1:40:17Like, were you a good friend to them? Who are you useful to in this world? Like, that's where I started was when I wanted to try to reach out and feel less isolated was who can I be of use to? And I started to try to – but what was easy to let go of was like fame, money and connection and red carpets. That was easy. That was easy. I don't want that back. Yeah. Oh, that seems like a fucking nightmare. It's shit. It's nothing. Work is different. And what we do is public. So it's like the hard thing was like, I wish I was a carpenter. I could just start making chairs again. I love stand-up comedy.

1:40:54I love it. It's my life. I love it so much. And it's given me so much. And the other thing that happened too was that when a hard thing that happens to you that feels like an all-encompassing thing, when you live with it every day, you go to sleep going, I can't do this. I went to sleep many nights going, my days are numbered. I just can't handle this. This is more than I can handle. But then I wake up the next day and I go, all right, I'm still here. It's still here. It's like a siren's blaring and it's not stopping. And at some point you just got to make coffee and talk a little louder or whatever you got.

1:41:30It was like, all right, this is life now. And I started to have to look at it and go like, well, everybody doesn't hate me. It's just not true. No. Wow. And there's people that love me and they're reaching out to me. And I should take their hand. I shouldn't just sit there and be a little victim, you know. And so after like what felt like a terribly long time of just feeling hated by everybody, I started to see people coming up on the street and saying, where are you? Where are you? Where were you? We want to see you. And I thought I want to start working again. To me, work was like the thing.

1:42:06I love it. I know I have value there. So I started working again. And then it was really hard because I lost a lot of friends for starting again. That's crazy to me. It was, well, it was, everyone was, I used to react to all of this with a lot of anger and confusion. But I started to do psychedelic drug therapy and see that everyone was acting in their own needs and everyone is doing what they need to do. And life is really hard for everybody. It's really hard. And these times have been really hard for everybody. The thing that ripped my life in half had been ripping lives all over the world. And everybody was dealing and some people were so scared that what happened to me would happen to them.

1:42:56And, you know, it was a lot of stuff going on. So I had to see that. Right. But I also saw that a lot of people that now knew about me were like, what do you got? And I thought I'm willing and I'll get – I was getting shit for trying again. But I'm like that's OK. It's OK. My rule with that whole thing now is I don't take part in it and I don't interfere with it. There is a thing about me. I became a symbol for something which is on me because I made a trillion carbon copies of myself and threw them out of a helicopter and said, think whatever you want about me. So when people started to think bad things about me, that's how they use this image.

1:43:40And that's – I can't go around the world and fix that. I can't make people that are mad at me not mad at me anymore. I can't like – I can't confront this thing on a global level because I'm not a globe. I'm one guy. And trying to live that way was what got me in trouble in the first place. And the damage is done and I can't fix that. But what I can do is be a good man to my friends, to my, on a one-to-one, I can shake one hand at a time. I can be a good father and I can take care of myself. I can constantly try to revise what I think is right and wrong, not depend on it, but just keep asking myself.

1:44:22Because I thought I was a good guy in a lot of moments where I wasn't. And I have to go back and go, that wasn't okay. And try to make amends when I get an opportunity. And it was really confusing to do all that. And then you can cut it out if you don't want it set on the air, but you told me about this program. You told me about SLAA and about a 12-step approach to what I was suffering from. Yeah, I was so amazed that you didn't have some of the familiarity with it. I never heard of it, and I didn't think it was for me at all. You told me about it, and I was like, yeah, that's not for me. And you've become such a role model to me through that program, man.

1:45:09You've become somebody that when you talk, I listen. When you want to know how I feel, I know you mean it. When you like, yeah, man, I mean, you've become just a real role model to me. You've become somebody that I aspire to be able to get through some of the problems that I have. because I've seen you get through them, man. Well, look at that, Theo, because you brought me into this shit. I know, it's crazy. So it's like if you reach out to somebody that's on the outside and take their hand and pull them in, they can end up teaching you something. And it's the same for me because like when we were – I loved having you as – I wouldn't have gone into it if I didn't know somebody.

1:45:52And then, by the way, you took me behind this curtain. I was like, I know a bunch of these guys. I had no idea. But I remember like, I mean, to get specific for a second, there was one point in my life where during when I got into this program where I was like in what we call withdrawal. So I was like this crazy idea to me. Don't have sexual release for several months in a row. What? Like, I mean, since I first fucking came clear liquid. Yeah. I've done it every day. Oh, yeah. And then what that did to the relationships of my life and my inability to feel real feelings. And then the kind of reckless behavior and the things I did with other people that came out.

1:46:35But there was a point where I was like, okay, so just don't. Like, don't at all. And the thing I loved about it, it's like a time that's so important. I remember when you were doing that, I was like, dang. Yeah, because I would call you. This dude's going deep. Yeah, and you're like, how long has it been? And I'd say like two months since I jerked off. And you would go, what's it like out there, man? And when you said that, like, I think about that all the time. What's it like out there, man? It was like, I'm an astronaut who cut from the court and I'm just out. And that's what it started to feel like.

1:47:05I got out of the gravitational pull. I got out of the cycle. Because every time you want something and you get it, you just go back to square one. You keep going back to just nothing. Oh, that's my cycle. It's just been like, for years, I was texting women, right? And like, let's meet up sometime. And we would never meet up, right? And it got to a certain point in certain years. I didn't even know if we knew who each other were anymore. Right. But we would both. I meet almost every day. Should we meet up this week? Yeah. I mean, for years, but just little moments of trying to get approval, right?

1:47:37Yes. And then going back to like, and the group isn't like, everybody's not like, everybody, maybe people have some perversion and stuff, but a lot of it's just like kind of pornography, intimacy disorders, like inability to connect. It's not like. Well, it's huge. When you do the steps, you learn how you got to where you are, and you learn what in your history made you this way. Yeah. And you get some guidelines for trying to undo it. And the thing about going through withdrawal is that by not pressing the reset button, you go to a new place every day. Every day you don't do it, you're in a new place.

1:48:14You feel new feelings. And I started realizing that my feelings, my actual emotions were coming online for the first time really in my life. and uh and i saw everything really differently and i saw that everything that had happened with me was because of me and by the way that's great news because that means you could do something about it right and and that everyone else is doing what they have to do and so i had to start like being a man about it and i can't like prove that to the world and i can't like do you know a big gesture i can just do it in my private life i can talk to you about it people can see this whatever you know i have mixed feelings about it scares the shit out of me to talk about it yeah um but uh and that had its own thing like i kept thinking i have to fix this i have to fix this reputation i have to go back to where people have at least a neutral feeling about me and i realized i just can't i just can't i i and also for some people the kind of people i probably would want to know it's happened naturally right and dude i was shocked whenever we would hang out that you thought so many people thought that you were like like such a pariah or something i was like dude louis like people care but they don't care that way yeah no i'm the last one who gives a shit right and not even in a bad way but like i know i know you wouldn't even seem like that bad of a guy you know what i'm saying like well i don't know some for some people i know that's a good point sorry but but those no it's okay those those for for some people i'm uh there's a there's yeah you're a boogeyman and that's the way that is and it's like if i did a movie uh for marvel and now I'm on a McDonald's cup you can still get.

1:49:46And I can't really change that. I made the movie. I did that. So, and maybe it's good for those people in some way. I don't know. But, but, and I don't like the way it affects people in my life and my family. That's hard. That's what I still carry. And, and I can't, but I'm responsible for it. That's the thing. And when it helps me, the pat, my past and the way it's still present in the air around me helps me because my life was completely unmanageable and I had no power to change it. And now I've changed it hugely. My life is so different now. I have real love in my life and, uh, but I need to remember like where I was, you know, and I also need to remember what is important, you know?

1:50:31So, so I'm, you know, and I'm writing, I, I, I'm writing novels because I, I don't jerk off every 15 minutes. It's really all it is. And I don't look at the phone because for a long time the phone was a gun pointing directly at my face. So I completely extricated myself from social media and from scrolling. I haven't scrolled in – I mean it's a guilty pleasure about once every month I'll go and look. But the chronic looking I had to – it would have killed me to keep looking at it. So I got – I'm so lucky what happened to me because of what I was ejected out of. And also the culture, since this happened with me in 2017, the world has gone completely insane.

1:51:17And I've just been watching. Like, I haven't had to comment about it. I haven't had to pick a side. I've just been sitting back going like, wow, you guys are, I mean, like I'm on the bottom of the sea, but I look up and I see, you know, like there's still a full-on fucking battleship royale up there. And once in a while I see a body, like a blue body float down, and I'm like, hey, man, I remember you. And he's like, hey. And we're all collecting and there's more people down here now than there was up there. And it's quiet down here. You know, there's fish and stuff. Yeah, it's all right. Yeah, it is.

1:51:53Dude, it is like, I don't know, having a support group and being able to go to meetings and share what's going on. Listen to somebody else say something that has unlocked something in you that you never could have unlocked. Yeah. Fuck. It's huge. it's beautiful yeah i mean it yeah it's unbelievable it's like you could spend the rest of your life trying to figure that out and then suddenly somebody just helped you get to a new place um one thing i love about meetings is like you know there's like the structure to these meetings like in any other 12-step program where you get three minutes to share right and the regiment of that it's like perfect it's kind of like the way baseball is perfect like someone figured out just the right amount of feet to make the you know that the the throat of first is always close yeah 12-step meetings have like this perfect this three minutes and there's a spiritual time keeper a guy who just says at when you're one minute away from finishing yeah it says one minute and you acknowledge it you know thank you one minute right there's that thing but in two minutes you can get really lost into what a guy's saying and you get to have this moment where like a guy's going like you know i keep a lighter fluid under my pillow because of the days that my father used to come to my room and I'd want to burn him alive.

1:53:11Thank you. One minute. And I like these little interruptions and cause it reminds you, yeah, you're in your shit, but wrap it up. There's other guys waiting to talk and the world's going around and it's, you know, that was a long time ago, man. Get over it. I'm glad you're sharing it, but you only get three minutes. Yeah, dude. It's Monday, brother. Yeah. That sounds like a fucking Thursday. share yeah i need to check in some shit about what i did today you know oh dude yeah even things like i mean i was looking at pornography the other day just being able to like text somebody to say that to him you know just like yeah and then just like how many times do i want to go back to this feeling of after i look at pornography i just feel like empty you know or i just don't feel like myself the next day that's been the biggest thing that helped change it for me is like noticing that like the next day i don't feel like myself i feel like i'm a little scattered i feel like i still need to recover from something.

1:54:06I still need to like, like put my aura back together a little bit. Yeah. Cause you ran away into pornography. So when you, when you, you feel you get, let's like you froze yourself and the next day you start to thaw and that's uncomfortable. It's like feeling your leg coming back to, uh, you know, after falling asleep, it's, it's tingles and it's bad. It's a bad feeling. Uh, you want to be in one or the other, you know? So it is, it's hard. The hard thing about being in recovery from addiction, something like what we have is that You can look at something like pornography, but you're aware now.

1:54:38You know there's a cost to it. Yeah, you know there's a cost. But thank God because you get so much of life back. And being able to tell another guy, like, I'm doing this, because there's a lot of shame involved with sex and love addiction, like all this kind of thing. When you tell somebody, I'm an alcoholic, people have a lot of sympathy for that. Yeah. This one's a little tougher. So you really need the group because these are a bunch of guys who get it. and so when you tell them um i'm struggling not to do this the the the genius of that is just that someone else knows it now that's all that it's too much for you to carry at some point for anybody who's an addict or not life got to be too much to handle it just was overwhelming so you found a way to shift away from it and thank god you did like thank god i had that when i was a kid i don't this thing that was right there to soothe me.

1:55:33Yeah, if I didn't have that thing, I mean, I found pornography, and then when I would get home, I would go. I would look at pornography and stuff like that because it was a way to make myself feel good. It was like I felt so horrible. I didn't even know I felt so horrible about myself. I just felt like a fucking cavern. I felt like, I mean, I felt like I didn't even want to impose myself on people because I didn't, I don't know. I just, nobody had time for me. Right. And so it made me think that I wasn't worth people's time. So I always just felt like I just couldn't say what I needed to say. I just didn't want to waste your time.

1:56:09I didn't want to waste your time. Cause you would see that I was a waste. Like if I could just, how old were you? Probably 10, 11, 12. I mean, imagine a 10 year old kid, like look at a 10 year old kid's face and imagine that he feels like a cavern inside. That's a hard thing to carry. And so you take on this thing that helps you just simplify life. I do this. I search, I search. I push, I push. I get to ecstasy. I'm calm. Right. It's homeostasis. It regulates me. It's just regulating. Right. And if you're exposed to sex early in life, which I was in a way that was, you get, that's it. That's it.

1:56:48That's what you got. And then later in life, when your feelings are supposed to be developing, they're still under this muffled thing. So they're not developing properly and you're ashamed of what you're doing. Yeah. But when you, the thing about a fellowship, it's just so simple. It's not God. It's not something that's better than you. It's a bunch of guys who just have the same problem and you're able to just go, you know, I'm having this problem. They go, yeah, I get it. They don't give you a solution. They just go, I know it too now. And you go like, now I got two souls to carry this problem and I'm there for him when he needs that.

1:57:18Yeah. And that just makes it a tiny bit easier so that you can go to the alternative, which is why do I do this thing? It's because I feel like a cavern. And the detaching from the behavior and stopping the thing I couldn't stop doing gave me the opportunity to go, what's in that cave? What's in that? Is there something in that that's worthwhile? How bad is it? What's wrong with the cave? Is it that I'm alone in there? Am I alone in there? it gave me the courage to sit in the cave alone and take a look around and go like you know with a flashlight man there's like crystals on the right roof it's fucking cool in here you know how did I get in here there is a there's a little there's a little door where does that go and starting to really be okay with I'm just here I'm in here and then a feeling comes, the kind of things I used to run from, like deep sadness, I miss my mom, something like that.

1:58:27I don't want to just have it. I just want to have it now. I just want to have it. And I've got a new habit, which is that when I get that, huh, that used to lead to an addictive moment, when I get that, ah, I know that if I pull away from it, it gets worse. It actually only hurts if I pull away. But if I get up to it and I go, what do you got? and I see colors and I see beautiful things, you know? And that's the potential is to welcome every feeling. And then you don't want out. And I love my life so much now that the last thing I want to do is gray it out with - I know. With a kind of chronic sexual half-release fake thing.

1:59:11Watching a sad person on a video in a weirdly lit room and I'm in it, you know, I just don't. Come on, buddy. And I don't even know who I'm cheering for when I was in pornography. That's crazy. Yeah. Which team are you on? Yeah. And you're like, ah, tie. Let's just have a tie. Yeah. But, oh, dude, yeah, it's like, oh, that sedative. And it's just a full body sedative. But yeah, I would, yeah, I didn't have, it marred really my ability to make a lot of connections because I'll even notice still in my life, and I still need to go through my steps again. I need to check in with my sponsor today. But if I'm face-to-face with a woman and they say something nice about me, I can't stay there for a second.

2:00:03Really? I cannot. Even a woman looking at me, I just have to. What happens? What makes you run away from it? Like inside of me, it feels fucking like it almost feels like a dirty electricity. Yeah. Comes inside of me that's or just like shows up at the front of me. It's a power. It's a weird electronic. It really is like touching a third rail. Yeah. Love and sex are both extremely powerful and they ain't all good. It's what I learned after like months of not jerking off. And then I decided I talked to my sponsors like it's time to try. Oh, yeah, I remember that big weekend. We were all excited.

2:00:46I think I bought one of those Amish fireplaces. I could just feel some of the distant north out there. But weren't you out of town? Yeah, somebody – You were up in New York somewhere, weren't you? You had to be in the totality of my first jerk-off. You had to be in that one stripe. That's right, in the island. I was out in Shelter Island. Yeah. And I said, okay, you're going to visit this. And you're not doing this for pleasure. You're doing this to visit. You're going to go to the country you left. And I did it and it was like an electrical shock. It wasn't like this pure pleasure. And I realized that's what it's always been like.

2:01:25But I've been putting like wet towels and asbestos and shit over my whole life so that I could barely feel it. So I had to really, really rub hard and with the most penetrating fucked up thoughts in order to find it. And I've been doing it since I was a kid. And I'm like, I can't believe I felt that as a kid, as a child. That's crazy. Because I really felt its raw strength again. And I said, I don't, my, my little conversation I have in my head with this presence I call Wally, it's just my own thing. And I said, I don't, after I did it, after I came, I said, that's no joke. And while he said, no, it's not.

2:02:03And I said, I think I need some rules. I should not go there alone very often. And I should never go there without, with somebody who I don't trust. and Wally said this is that sounds smart kid and that's what I've been living by I've been respecting sex as a very hot fire that's beyond electricity your feelings are your feelings are fires that you can sit by and warm yourself but sex is electricity that you have to deal with with real discipline and thoughtfulness and uh and so is love because that's a two-way thing You've got somebody else involved.

2:02:42And the other thing that the steps did was looking at my life, looking at really looking at it. And I was writing down my history of my sex life, you know, from it was the first assignment I was given. And I got to like, I've blown up my life like twice really. And the first time I blew up my life, I looked at that moment. I was writing it and I yelled onto the paper. I said, stop to myself. You got to stop. And I felt this huge remorse because I realized I can't hear it. He can't hear it. That happened. I can't change it. But then I heard a voice say, please stop. And I realized it's my future self whose life kept getting wrecked.

2:03:29And he said, please stop. And I'm like, I can hear him. I can fucking hear that guy. and I can actually, I'm in this moment. But I thought, yeah, but I can't. I'm not strong enough. And I asked the universe to, I just said, somebody fucking help me because I want to live. I want to really live my life. And that was a big moment for me. So - That's powerful. I can hear that guy now saying, thank you, dude. And please keep it going because you could still fuck it up. You have to keep going in this better direction. That's all just from this stupid 12-step thing that you get. It's like a DMV fill-out thing.

2:04:12Anybody can do it. When you go to these SLAA meetings that are on Zoom and stuff, there's like 100 dudes on every meeting. And a lot of it is young guys in their 20s, some are 19, who are addicted to porn. Because they were born into a world where they're being encouraged to go to their phone for love and acceptance and power and money. And that's where they find sex. And it's all addictive. They've turned every human endeavor into an addictive act. And these kids are so overwhelmed by it. Everything. The most important ones. Well, one of some of the things that I've learned are, I mean, well, the crazy part is, so say I'm sitting there, I'm jerking off, and then there's some, just because I'm jerking off on my phone, some county out in uh in uh in iowa is they're losing water uh because they're having to run a data center that's right that's flaring up a little icon that's right so now some kid can't even take a hot shower because some other because you just need a little 40 year old kid won't stop jerking off somewhere in the distance um oh it's unbelievable i mean and here's one of the crazy things that we had a lady that came on who who told us about Pornhub and a lot of these sites a lot of the uh content on there isn't even consensual right of course so now you start to realize oh I'm jerking off to crime yes I'm jerking off to possible sexual crime like they found like 70 percent of it was non-consensual this lady Lila McElwade is her name she came on was fascinating uh to learn about it um yeah and if you're jerking off to anything on that site You're supporting that.

2:05:52Even if the thing you're watching is consensual, it's all the money's going into the same pot. It's financing this shit that's not consensual. And then also one great thing about being in the program, and I've never really talked about it this way. I've talked about it with one other comedian on here actually, is that we have a buddy in the program named Steve, and he's awesome. And he runs a program called Valor. and this isn't really an advertisement for it, but we do free ads for the Valor on the podcast and it's a lot of young dudes in there and I'm in some of the meetings and it's a lot of dudes in there who are just going to, who are getting help.

2:06:33Yeah, because it's really hard to unlearn this shit and it does make you, it gets dangerous because it does make you an unthoughtful person. That's the way I got into the trouble that I got into because I wasn't stopping and thinking. I was like so blinded by what I wanted that I didn't, and I would just get this basic feeling of like, this is okay. I would tell myself that, but I wasn't stopping and thinking. And I just have so many, you know, like when you're in a, if you have a power boat and you're pulling water skiers or people on a tube, that kind of boat has a elaborate system of ignition.

2:07:06You know what I mean? So that you don't chew somebody up with the propeller. So like when someone's in the water, you turn the ignition off. and when you turn the ignition on it beeps really loud before you start the motor and that's before you go in gear you have all these movements before you're harming and that gives everyone a chance whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa right so i got all these beeps and triggers in my life now like especially if i'm looking at a moment of of ecstasy if i'm looking at something that's going to make me feel euphoric i go you might be being selfish right now like that's an automatic thought to me now like you might, who's, who is someone paying for this?

2:07:45Is someone looking like they're okay when they're not? Is somebody saying yes when it was tough for them to get there? Can you just wait a second? Can you cool off? Can you take a breath? Cause you might be going too fast. You might be so desperate to get this moment. That's going to give you that assuagement that kind of like I'm okay feeling that you're not thinking you're not in, you're not in it. You're not in the room with somebody. You're not in the room with yourself. Even you're not, you're hurting yourself. You're using yourself too. So that's new for me. That's new. And, and, and it's become an installed part of me.

2:08:19So I just move slower and, uh, that life has a speed. And if you can get on the same track with it, you're okay. Like the thing I get from like, I, every morning I look at the sky, I just look at the sky and the world and nature. And I just, there's a message I keep getting, which is that you're meant to be here. You're designed to be here. You don't even have to look at it as like some conscious being made you. It's just that you're of this earth at this time. Yeah. So chances are you match if you're willing to be in it the way, as long as you're willing to be in reality the way things really are accepting what's not there and because we're human going for it a little trying a little trying to make things happen i think that the universe when we fuck around to find out goes like huh nice yeah nice this motherfucker yeah and so there's a little there's an edge there that you want to be at where you're just like i'm here which means i'm i belong here and everything that happens will basically be okay with me if I really take it in as reality and I don't try to just like think my way out of it but I'm a clever little fucking monkey and I want to try some shit too you know and it means I'll fall yeah you know try try to try to try only as high as the fall won't break you when you get up really really crazy high in life you're too high you're Madison Square Garden and all this kind of crazy shit that I was doing it's like the fall will kill you and uh because it's not a human height it's not human and there's no oxygen up there and there's no drag on your wings and it's lonely and it doesn't have it it's not affected by your feelings anymore it's just this other thing but when i went back to work and i was like i'm doing clubs again how's that gonna feel and i'm sitting in the funny bone inst louis And the Coke, the machine that sends Coke to the bar is next to my head.

2:10:21And I'm sitting there and there's the smell of chicken wings and pizza. And I'm doing retail comedy. I was happy as fuck. I was so happy to be telling the jokes to people whose faces I could see and whose admission prices, they're giving that to me as a gift. And they're going home happy. and I got back to that level of comedy and it was really beautiful. That's where I live now. I mean, I do the theaters because I'm still a fucking pig. I still want, I still like it. Well, some of them are nice too. Some of them are nice. The Ryman in Nashville, beautiful. I'm excited to come over there. Well, dude, I just knew I came over to your place and you were making art and you were sculpting and sending me stuff.

2:11:03And then you sat me down one time with a friend when I was over there and she had made something and you were reviewing it or she was reviewing a project you had made. it was like a some type of a cartoon I believe it was a silent film maybe it's a movie that I was starting to make and we were making an animatic with charcoal it was just fascinating like oh this dude is a fucking artist man and that's when I realized oh this guy really like he likes being an artist you know it just feels good it's just fun and if you can share this stuff it's great yeah it was great and then you said this and I was like wow this dude's really in his spot but yeah i agree man having that like having that that like need for attention from women or having watching pornography or watching porno and stuff it's taken a lot of things moments in my life you know i was on one time i was on a vacation and with with uh with my girlfriend instead of like spending i was like like texting some other woman or i was like watch them.

2:12:07And it took us out of this great weekend where we're supposed to, and it's like, and that call, it's like, you know, I can never like get that right in a way, you know? But it's, it's understandable because you have that feeling that if you're with somebody, you're too much for them. You're scared to be alone with her. You're scared. So you're finding a way to not be in the room. Yeah. And it's just that old pattern though, that if I don't try and get it under control, if I don't try to do better. and I think even this year has been tough for me it's just like um yeah I just feel like work's gotten busy and it just makes me scared kind of a little bit and it's like you know and then popularity makes you scared and that's kind of scary and then you're just like looking at yourself you know it's like what am I even you you're like I can't even feel like I can't even the controls feel far from my hand sometimes not yeah not like I'm doing crazy stuff or anything, but just like, you know, I just, I don't know.

2:13:05No, it's, it is scary and it should be. That's the thing is, it's like another electricity. You got to respect it. It's not, it's not a small, small thing being famous and it can go bad. And it's, it's your fault because you got into it. But that's, I don't know. It's also a human thing to want to share your work and want to be out there, you know, but once, when, when it goes bad, you get in this predicament of like, I want to go to each person's house and tell them what really happen and what you know the little things that are that aren't in the way that's you know and that's just never going to happen yeah and at this point with all to me i just want to get i just i just want to live and i want to like i haven't talked about this the way i'm talking about it to you we can take it out if you want it's scary we'll talk about it after okay but there's so many times i just want to come out and tell people like i'm fucking sorry i'm really sorry i hurt people.

2:13:55And I feel, I've felt like in the way that it was so hard to take all of that at once, that much anger at once. It's like, I just don't have a sorry that covers it. And so, and I don't have only one feeling. Sorry is not the only feeling I have.

2:14:16And so I don't want to say something and I'm scared of the way that I, anything I say can be used by other people. There's all kinds of fears that come up. And I'm very raw in that space. But that's all because I made this, I'm making these choices to stay in this. And it's because I love the work and I want to share it. So I guess like I really wish there was, like I could have a simple kind of watershed where I can say just yes to everything that happened and I'm sorry. I really am. And I'm just trying to do better and I don't think I can prove that to everybody because it's a private thing.

2:14:52It's a one-to-one man thing. It's not a famous guy act. Right. But I got work that I want to share with people. Yeah. I have work that I think is worthy. And there I'm like, if you don't like it, you don't like it. That's always okay with me. When I'm on stage and I'm talking and people aren't accepting it, like, oh, that's okay. That's fine. That's fair. Fair enough, man. And nobody owes me nothing. I'm trying. We'll see what happens. dude i'm kind of like in a weird way like i know this sounds maybe crazy to say it's almost like well i think so many of us probably needed we needed a guy like you to have some of the same problem because you have such an ability to look at things and kind of like examine them and it's like we needed an astronaut like i know it sounds crazy but it's like we needed like a neil armstrong like you well you know i felt out there and report what you're feeling under your feet because it's like so many people are struggling and you say things dude that like i mean the rest of us just cannot put it into words and it's just such a gift that you have you know well it's it's been a little bit painful because i know it has well because because uh i felt that and when it happened like hey this is an opportunity i can tell people what this is like and i can really i can i can come back with something great to say but i just i'm I just couldn't.

2:16:12Like I just couldn't do it. I was too scared and I was too fighting for my life and also worried about other people in my life. Everything I say affects people that love me. I know that. And people that I'm related to. And I can't just decide like what's going to fix it. And also I'm completely confused by it. I still live with this thing every day. It's still part of my everyday life. It still imposes limits on me every day.

2:16:43and I still don't know what to do about it. I really don't. It's really confusing, but so I wish I could feel – I'm like a shitty astronaut. I'm like an astronaut who's not – they sent the – I'm – what's his name? Don Knotts. In that whatever – I think he did an astronaut one, right? If he did, he should have. Yeah, there it is. Yeah, the reluctant astronaut. That's me. Yeah, it's no good. and uh i'm gus grissom i blew the hatch and uh i just was i was just too weak man and i flailed through it you know i said some things uh um out of confused anger because i am who i am on stage i'm pretty raw up there you know so i'm not like vetting what i say i'm not careful about it um you know but you you may be the reluctant astronaut but i think it's like what we all are.

2:17:35It's like we all just want to try and figure out whatever the truest stuff that's going on inside of us. That's right. And that's the part that I think you report back. I'm just saying like - Well, life will, you will never choose the hard road for yourself. Never. And the choices you make in life are a combination of fear. You do things because of what you're afraid of to avoid things you're afraid of. Most things in life. You work for financial success because you're afraid of being poor more than anything else. And you work towards acceptance because you're afraid of being alone. Yeah, and sometimes you look at pornography, you do stuff like that because you're afraid of going in and sitting, talking with your spouse or your girlfriend about things that are scary to you.

2:18:19Yeah, that's right. So that's how life, that's how a person, and it's understandable. It's like people just do their best. 100%. But when life throws a bomb in the middle of your life and you survive it, you are given this beautiful opportunity to go like to see everything from another angle and go like what is what is even breathing like what is even like why do i put a sock on like what am i doing here and it breaks everything that takes everything away and it goes start again and you look back at your life and you go that was a fucking mess and you're met with real remorse about your mistakes.

2:18:58You don't have time to regret when you're living life, but when it's cut off and you just go, wow, that was fucked up. Uh, and I can't even fully fix it for some people. I just can't. I just, what do I do now? Put a sock on maybe another sock, maybe on the same foot, maybe two socks on one foot. What's wrong with that? And you, you get, I got my sense of humor back that way. So it's just like, this is all pretty silly. It's all pretty fucking silly in a sense. Don't you dare take life seriously. It's like one of my big things that even as a comedian, you sort of think I'm a great comedian. Yeah.

2:19:36Lighten up, buddy. You know what I mean? And, um, the shows I've been doing on the road now are just there. I called the show ridiculous cause it's back to, I just want to be, I just want to surprise people with what I'm saying. Yeah. And I just want to be a bit of an asshole for an hour. It's just fun. But also just seeing that – I don't think I would have seen these things if life didn't force me to. So it's good. It's good. Like right now for me, life is just so fucking good, way better than it was before. Well, to be able to live in such fucking, I mean, just to be able to like really face some real challenges in your life, that's pretty fucking crazy.

2:20:20I mean, you walk away going like, I can do that. Yeah. And what happened that was terrible was okay. And it wasn't all terrible. Some of it was so beautiful. Because when you're exposed to the hardest part of life, you're also exposed to the most wonderful. like I was looking the other day I don't know why this is but the word compass and the word compassion like they share the first what seven letters I don't know why that is but you get some direction out of life but you only find real compassion by seeing real pain and you go oh wow life is really tough you know and then that that's all you need all you need is to understand how much life can hurt because it's um well i don't know sort of spinning out with what i'm saying but it's okay it's uh yeah life is uh better now and i also the what's happened to me can be an example for other people and like in fellowship when when i go to a meeting in person and i and there's a guy who's really hurting his life's fucked up and i approach him and i go hey you should and he's not sure about being in this program.

2:21:35And, uh, and he goes, Oh, I, I ruined my life. And I go, do you know who I am? And he goes, yeah. And I go, I'm doing pretty good, buddy. And the fact that my wreckage can be a mountain for folks to lean on, take a little load off. That's a beautiful gift. Um, you know? Yeah. Well, it's been awesome, man. It's so funny. I never really got to know you as a comedian, him and I got to know you on stage, but I've gotten to know you. I feel like as a man, you know? Yeah. You're my brother. Yeah. I got to know you just by being kind and being cool. And yeah, man, I just, yeah, I hope one day I have a cool kid like you, man, that's creative and fun and brave and fucking weird and, you know, not afraid to hide somewhere and fucking jerk off a little bit.

2:22:22Yeah. Also be fucking cool. Yeah. Yeah. Open up. Stay open. Yeah. So I hope that one day I have a cool kid like you. Um, and yeah, I just feel really proud that, that, uh, I just feel like, yeah, thank you for being a role model to me, man. You've done it. Same, Theo. You do a good job of that. And I think you should know that, you know? Thanks, bro. That you do a really good job of that of being important to people, Louie. And it's definitely been that for me. So thank you. Thanks, bro. Yeah. I think you're a brave dude. And, uh, yeah, man, I'm excited to see you guys tonight. So let's get the fuck out of here.

2:22:57Shit's getting fucking gay, dude. dude. But this book is great. You got cum coming out of your eyes. There's jizz coming out. It was. Because it's backing up. Very clear. That's where the gay jizz comes out the eyes. Oh, God. Yeah. It's true. That's true. Oh, I know it is. Yeah. Oh, I've given, I did a four-part series on it online. Ingram is great. It's kind of, it's like a, it's a new kind of Tom Sawyer, but it's just good. It's written well. It's not like, oh, this is a big name writing a book and that's why it's going to be good. But this book is good if anybody wrote it. It's magnificent.

2:23:32And I'm so glad that you finally get to a place in your life where you feel you have the time and the ability to make such magic like this, man. Thanks, bro. This is really cool. Thank you. All right, Louis C.K., thank you so much, bro. Thank you, Theo. Yep. Now I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take...