#620 - Keith Peterson - This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von: Summary & Transcript

In short

Podcast Notes: This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von - Episode #620 with Keith Peterson

Episode Overview In this episode of *This Past Weekend*, host Theo Von welcomes Keith Peterson, known as “No Nonsense,” a professional MMA referee, diesel mechanic, and wrestling coach. They discuss the complexities of refereeing in MMA, Peterson's unique experiences, and his passion for coaching wrestling, especially his daughter.

Guest Introduction

Keith Peterson
Professional MMA referee, primarily for the UFC
Diesel mechanic
Wrestling coach in New York
Known for having a straightforward, "No Nonsense" attitude

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Key Discussion Points

The Mind of a Referee
Referee Mentality: Peterson shares insights on what goes through a referee's mind during a fight.
Importance of stopping fights when necessary—highlighted with an anecdote from his early experiences.
The pressure of ensuring fighter safety, likening it to being a brain surgeon, where mistakes can have severe consequences.

Background and Career Path
From Fighter to Referee: Peterson transitioned from amateur fighting to officiating after realizing the challenges of continuing to fight.
Encouraged by an old referee, he took courses to become a referee and started officiating local fights.
Early Refereeing Experiences: Discusses his early struggles and how he learned the nuances of being a referee.

Refereeing Experiences
Notable Fights: Peterson reflects on various fighters he has reffed and the energy they bring to the ring.
Mentions fighters like Al Iaquinta and Paul Felder, noting their unique qualities and determination.
Referee Dynamics: Emphasizes the respect and communication between fighters and referees, which is crucial for maintaining order in the ring.

Personal Life and Music
Musical Background: Peterson shares that he has been involved in hardcore music since the late '90s and has played in bands.
Bands include GFY and Loser Sometimes Win.
Family and Coaching:
Discusses the joy of coaching his daughter in wrestling and the growth of women's wrestling.
Shares anecdotes about family life and the importance of being a good parent.

Health and Fitness Journey
Weight Loss Story: Keith discusses his recent health journey, including losing weight and becoming more active after health scares.
Living a Healthy Lifestyle: Emphasizes the importance of health, especially in the face of personal experiences with friends and family.

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Key Takeaways

Referee Responsibilities: Refereeing requires quick decision-making, emotional control, and a focus on fighter safety.
Passion for Coaching: Coaching athletes, particularly in wrestling, provides a sense of fulfillment and connection to the next generation.
Balancing Life and Work: Peterson exemplifies the idea of balancing multiple roles—referee, mechanic, musician, and parent—showing the importance of dedication in various life aspects.
Community in Sports: The MMA and wrestling communities foster a family-like atmosphere, where mutual respect among participants and officials is paramount.

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Quotes

“You have to treat people the way that you want to be treated, which most of the time is left alone.”
“As a referee, my main thing is to have them fairly fight and help them leave safely.”
“Wrestling is the best sport you can do at any level; it teaches life lessons you won’t find outside.”

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Closing Remarks Theo expresses gratitude to Keith for sharing his experiences, emphasizing the unique blend of personal stories and professional insights that make the episode engaging. Peterson’s journey from the ring to his family life illustrates the interconnectedness of passion, responsibility, and community.

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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life. And getting it right starts with good information. That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients at GoodToKnowFacts.org. No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage ingredients. Visit GoodToKnowFacts.org. Today's guest is a true Renaissance man. He's a father, he's a MMA referee, he's a musician, and he's a mechanic. And he absolutely hates nonsense. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr.

0:44No-Nonsense Keith Peterson. Shine on me and I will find a song I've been singing.

1:04I'm sitting here with the man, No Nonsense, Keith Peterson. Thanks for joining me, man. No problem. I got to ask you straight up, dude. Is there, how much nonsense is allowed? In what? In fighting or life or? Like, what are your thoughts on nonsense? Because you got the name No Nonsense, right? Yeah. I don't know. There's a time and place, I guess, right? but I think the no nonsense thing is just my approach towards things and you know John Anik gave me that nickname and it kind of just stuck and I think it fits but you know there's nonsense so you'll allow a little okay it depends during the holidays yeah yeah I guess maybe on your birthday we can there's a little bit of nonsense allowed But usually most of the things I do, I do very straightforward and, you know, no nonsense, I guess.

2:08Yeah. I've been involved in too much nonsense and it gets a little hairy, that's for sure. Yeah. John Anik gave you that nickname? When was that? Yeah. A few years ago. Yeah. We had a few conversations. And then I think on air, he said it. And it just seemed to take off and fit. Yeah. And I think it does fit. Yeah. You know, nicknames are weird, but I've had a few. Yeah, what are some other ones you've had? When I was little, my nickname was Froggy from, like, the Little Rascals, the voice. Oh, yeah. The little guy with the voice. I've always had this voice. So, yeah, that was my nickname pretty much until I got older.

2:50Some people still call me that, though. Yeah, there's this girl who moved in across the street. and she came over because she wanted to play. Yeah, that fits, man. That fits. You're from New York. Long Island, yeah. Long Island, New York. And I originally lived in like East Meadow, Nassau County area and now I live in Islip, New York. Islip. And how did you get into refereeing? How'd that start for you? Well, I fought amateurs for a while and for about three years. All different fights, amateur level uh mma fights muay thai fights um kickboxing and then um we had a lot going on so it was getting harder and harder you know to put the time in and um someone just uh it's a goal once you you know judge or or be an inspector at at fights at amateur fights or stuff like that and i was like okay that sounds cool i'll be you know still be at the fights and then um I went took this course and the it was in New Jersey and there was this old referee Donny Caroline he reffed a bunch of my kickboxing MMA fights and stuff Donny Caroline?

4:06Yeah he's he passed away a few years ago and he he was like you'd be really good at reffing you'd be really good at reffing so I got my chance to ref you know a few amateur fights and kind of just took off from there and he was pretty supportive during the amateur part of it. Were some of those early bouts tougher? Was it tougher to referee then? Is it something that gets easier over time? Yeah. I compare it to, I don't know if it's a good comparison, but it would be like being a brain surgeon. You're not going to be as good as you're going to be 10 years, but no one could die. Yeah. Pretty simple.

4:46So you learn lots and lots of little things. and so you're saying so you're not gonna be as good as you're gonna be later but as long as you don't let somebody die yeah you gotta you know stop the fight when it's supposed to be stopped and you know and and then the rules it all comes in as you go take me on like an early experience that was kind of like a lot for a referee yeah so for me my first like a couple like um i remember my first or second time ref and if i was really even as amateurs and really even and then the kid was like you know losing pretty bad and i was like wow this kid's losing pretty bad you know this fight should be stopped and i was like oh no that's me and and i stopped it and then uh and then kind of from there you're like yeah you're the one in there you know because it's you're up close and like you know you have to adapt into a referee like um at first you know I came out from fighting.

5:45So my mentality was like a fighter. Like as a fighter, I didn't always agree with the referee. Like, you know, Oh, it's a good point. Cause as a fighter, you have a, you're, you're just doing your thing. And, you know, especially, you know, at the high level, like this is, you know, it's their health, their lives, their livelihood, you know, and all the dedication in the world. you know, that it takes. So, you know, they're on a different journey that day than I am, you know, for sure. And are there fighters that will tell you, they'll come up to you before about and say like, this is like, do not do this or do this.

6:26Yeah, you'll get, you know, do not. And then I just let them talk and then I, you know, do my, you know, whatever my criteria is. I don't change it. You can't? No. Is there one fighter that's like, do not for anything? I think, like, is there somebody that's just, like, let me go to the end of the road every time? Like, somebody that stands out? Because it's kind of. No, like, there's been, like, not to name any, but a lot of times when they say don't stop this, they usually end up stopping it. It's weird. Or they'll, like, tap or something. They'll, like, you know, be like, wow. Especially when they say, you know, oh, I'm willing to die or whatever.

7:04But some guys are just quiet and just, you know, that they're there to get the job done. and as far as it's like a criteria let's say you've watched a lot of fights and when I'm reffing I'll say you have to move and if they fit that criteria if they're defending and they can move it's a fight my main thing as I said they're putting their health on the line my main thing is to have them fairly fight and, you know, help them leaving and being able to fight again or whatever they want to do again. Right? You know, be a family person. Like, there's a lot. Like, besides me being a parent myself, it's the most important thing I'll ever do.

7:56It's very important. And, you know, on the outside, it's just a fight, but a lot can happen, you know? So, um... You're kind of like a safeguard. Yeah. And, you know, And it's like you're in there and, as I said, emotions from everywhere, right? Fighters, corners, people who are there to watch the fight from, you know, you get a different vibe from the people in the front row, from the people in the back row, right? So it's a very emotional. So really I try to keep my emotions aside and, you know, just have this set thing of what I do each time. And, you know, everyone makes mistakes. you know I don't that doesn't make them acceptable either like you know oh everyone makes and they do and I do but you know make a mistake admit it and learn from it and move on is there a fight that you've had to like you were like yeah maybe that was a little earlier that was I didn't read it correctly or try not to read it totally into the early ones I don't have many where I'm like oh that that was late I got I'm lucky that I I don't really have one where I'm like, wow, that's not what I'm here to do.

9:12So that I'm lucky. But, you know, to know as you get more experience, you know. Like you'll know when even like sometimes someone will be like, ah, I think that was a little early. And you'll know right in your head it wasn't a little early. Because you're there right next to them. So, you know, you hear all the sounds. That's a good point actually. Yeah, you're right there. I mean, you're right there. You're the closest person to it. You can feel a different energy than we can. Yes. And even cameras, I've done, you know, because I look at my work when I'm done with it, and I've watched five different angles.

9:50And, like, usually the only angle, like, there's one angle that I'm like, oh, that's what I saw. Yeah. And the other angles are kind of maybe a little bit, and then there's one, like, closest to where my eyes are and they are. where you're like, oh, that's what I saw. You ever go back and, like with your lady, make love to a fight or watch one or something like that? You know what I'm saying? Watch your work type of thing? Like a thing people will watch their... Oh, like watch it just to say, wow, I did great? No, I don't look at the ones I think I did good. Yeah. I light on. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about your life outside of work.

10:28I know you're in a band. I remember you telling me about it one time. Yeah, I was in two bands. It was my first band We started in 1998 And my other one We've been around a pretty long time too What's that band called? The first one was called GFY And the second one's Loser Sometimes Win And they're like New York hardcore bands Hardcore? Yeah, yeah Nice And what do you kind of model them What is GFY for? Go Fuck Yourself Oh, yeah I was younger then Yeah Oh, that shit was fun, huh? Dude, where did you guys play? How did you guys get started? Long Island guys. And we met, you know, like a music scene.

11:15And we met, I was like, oh, let's start something. And then we just started it. And were you singing? Were you playing an instrument? I sing. You did. So that voice, as part of it, was that one of the reasons you even got into singing? Just because your voice was kind of different? It just happens to be that my voice kind of fit the hardcore thing. but I liked hardcore way before that. But I kind of like started listening to hardcore punk rock music when I was really young. But yeah, I was just into like, I got into heavy metal and like Black Sabbath and all that. And then when I started hitting my early teens, I wanted to find something that kind of like fit more of where I was and more like a workingsman, like street music and stuff.

11:57So I found hardcore and just fell in love with it from then. and, you know, I'm still, still, that's what I listen to. I listen to, you know, not everything, actually. I don't like people who say they listen to everything, but I listen to a lot of types of music. Let's take a gander at some of it. Let's take an ear gander here at a little bit of it. Play that second one, actually. I like Till I Die.

12:48Yeah, what? Yeah.

12:54Did you come in on this? Yeah, I think right after the intro. intro.

13:08Yeah, that's amazing. There's two singers in this band.

13:17Yeah, bro. I like it. That vibe is a pure vibe, dude. That was like, that's like one type of culture, that whole energy. And it's like silly too. like the intro that is the Death March right and it was like Halloween and I pressed this thing and that's what it was like dun dun dun dun dun dun dun so I went to my guys I'm like yo play the Death March yeah and there you go what are the ladies like that would come to those shows that's how I met my wife really yeah oh it's a pretty good yeah yeah that's it so from right before the band started or whatever I met her and then Where did you meet her at?

13:59Like taking through that At the band Hatebreed At a Hatebreed show Hatebreed? Yeah Bring them up They're famous And are they out of New York? No, Connecticut They're famous now They play huge shows Yeah, I think I've heard their name before Yeah And so were you guys just like Were you at the concession stand? Or were you just like I don't know if there is a concession stand But yeah It's just tongue piercings and vodka Yeah, where did you meet her at? At the show And Just You know Whatever The dance And what do you call it The mosh pit Yeah And yeah And we just met And that was that Yeah Dude those pits are fun Kind of if you can coordinate the pits Do you ever do that when you're on stage Where you're like Alright everybody did this side And this side And then you make a merge Like I was at a Suicide Boys show Not long ago There was probably a lot more people At that show Than my shows Yeah But they'll do this thing Where it's like This kind of controlled thing But mosh pits used to be pretty sick the wall of death yeah yeah yeah when there's a big crowd those are cool looking yeah it's just dope dude yeah hunker man that does that really good with says is sick of it all they do a good wall of death sick of it all yeah yeah i'm not familiar with them i think i'm not familiar with as much of that genre of music when i was growing up like we had like a brother's friend like like my brother's friends they had a band that was like that and so like being the younger brother we go lit you know just try to get involved and stuff um but there was always this kind of like uh i think in our area it was kind of fringe a little bit just because we didn't have as many people that listened to that type of music yeah in new york it's you know even though it has its ups and downs but like at one point you had like cbgb's was like the home you know and and stuff like that and you had lots of clubs and so it's would you go there when you You were growing up CBGB?

15:53Yeah. Really? That's where I went mostly. And then I ended up playing there in both bands a few times. Bring it up, CBGB. CBGB was a legendary New York City music club in the Bowery District founded by Hilly Cristal in 1973. It became a crucial incubator for the American punk and new wave rock movements, though it was initially intended for country bluegrass and blues music, which the CBGB, oh, I didn't realize that, Name stands for Country Bluegrass Blues. The unglamorous, gritty venue hosted influential bands like the Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads, and Patti Smith Group before closing in 2006.

16:36Wow. Yeah. So do you remember who you go see there? Oh, yeah. Like New York bands like Sick of It All, Gnostic Front. Pretty much like once you kind of get into that, then it's all French bands. They get to play. They play there. You go. like we played there a few times um it was like sundays you know you'd go to that's where you go take the train and go go to a show and then there's at the time um there's like a bunch of clubs and you know great clubs there and um dude you know being young you just go you know at one point you can go three or four shows a week yeah so and uh so that became like main focus for a pretty long time did you have like a routine before you got on stage with your band did you have any yeah uh you know like uh i would just stand like we'd sell on shirts so stand behind the distro and kind of get ready and just get on and go um it's not much you know how much like Like, I don't even, you know, I think it's good, but, like, anyone could do it.

17:48What I was doing. Just get on, and if you love it, you just start screaming, I guess. Yeah. But, you know, I, like, the raw energy of it all is really what I still love. And I don't get to go to shows as much anymore, but my son's really involved. My son's in three bands right now. Oh, wow. So he's really involved in that. But I still love the whole culture. Yeah, it almost seems like there's some correlation there between the intensity, right, of that and MMA. Yeah, there is. Definitely, definitely. Yeah, it's almost like when the pedal is pressed all the way down in a car and you're going at that.

18:26Yeah. Like there's that. I was actually really surprised when I started reffing events that were on TV, how many guys at the hardcore scene were into MMA And, you know, knew, like, you know, the events and stuff. There is a connection, you know, with jiu-jitsu and hardcore teams. A lot of guys roll. But with, you know, with the UFC, with all that stuff, like, you know, oh, they knew everything about it. I was pretty surprised. But it makes sense. Yeah, it does. What happens when your health becomes the punchline? That's where we're at. From seed oils to stress, toxins to pollutants, the modern world is screwing with our health at the cellular level, leading to exhaustion, brain fog, digestive issues, and more.

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21:30Do you remember? I think we went to the diner. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah, cheese fries or something. That's what I'm talking about. I'm thinking about sometimes fancy dates. I'm about to cheese fry a woman and see what happens. I need a wife. With a brown gravy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the ticket. Was she in a band or was she like? No, she wasn't in a band. Just, you know, like she liked ska music. Oh, yeah. And back then, like Long Island, they would, you know, bands would play. Hardcore bands and ska bands would play on the same bill. And then she just ended up being a big fan of hardcore music too.

22:03What differentiates ska? Sky's got I don't know the definition but it's got saxophones and stuff and the horn section usually I never really thought about that I've always wondered Sky music is a lively genre originated in Jamaica in the 1950s blending elements of Caribbean Calypso American jazz and rhythm and blues a walking bass line with strong accents on the offbeat played by guitar piano known as the skank fast tempos and energetic melodies. Let me see. In Jamaica, Scott was popular among working class rude boys. Rude boy! While in the UK, skinheads adopted the genre during the two-tone era as a form of working class solidarity.

22:51Ah. That's pretty cool. How long have you guys been married now? Is it your... 23 years. What's been the key to a long marriage do you feel like? How's that been? How's that road been? Oh, awesome. The whole... That part... Amazing. Marriage, kids, I love. That's, you know, my number one thing. And it's been good. I would, you know, lie and say easy, but good, good, real good. You think you chose a good partner? Oh, yeah. No, definitely. Yeah. What makes her pretty great, do you feel like? I don't know. I guess the smart answer would be everything. But she's Italian? She's Argentinian and Italian.

23:32Oh, yeah, boy. Keep you on your toes. Yeah, yeah. She definitely is. And, yeah. You know, as far as, like, us parenting together and stuff like that, it's just perfectly, like, very good. Works out really good. You know, like, certain things I'm good at help her. Certain things she's good at helps me. Mostly what she's good at helps me. She keeps it definitely going. She's the one that keeps it going, yeah. By a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure, man What was it like when you guys decided to have kids? Was that like a scary choice Or was it something you guys were just both excited about? Was it scary for you kind of to become a dad?

24:13Like what was your relationship with your dad like? I'm good Both of my parents Good But Yeah I don't think I was nervous I do know like When our first son was born I kind of looked And it was like real deal now Right? You're like holding him Like all right Like this guy depends on me for everything like everything you know so you're like I gotta get it together I gotta make sure you know and I had it together but I gotta make sure that I do this right you know and you know obviously just like we said before you make mistakes with things but like my goal is to you know raise I have three kids and you know raise them to be good people without having to try if that makes any sense you know how like guys like us be like oh we're trying to do the right thing.

25:02I want my kids to just be able to do the right thing without having to try, which probably impossible. But if you shoot for that goal, you know, it's good. It's a good thing. Yeah. So yeah, I don't have any experience parenting, but I think it's something that I start to look forward to more and more. And I do think it's something that like kind of gets you into a new phase of life, right? Like, oh yeah, definitely. I feel like I've been in this same phase of life sometimes for a while kind of like but i don't have another phase yet you know it's like i don't have a wife or family yet you know sometimes people will be like dude you got to grow up and i'm like to what do what like what what do you want me to just go sit in a like rock and dress up like what do you want me to do yeah definitely not i want to enjoy my life even with my kids it's been different like my 23 year old is like really into the hardcore scene because when he was born i was still very into that still played shows still you know did you know went to shows my friends would come over that's all we would play in the backyard for barbecues so like he's really into that and then you know my daughter it's wrestling wrestling wrestling oh she loves it yeah and because by the time you know she was getting older she's 19 and she was getting older that's what my older guy was doing we were into the wrestling thing so and then that you know my 14 year old just wrestling, wrestling and skateboarding.

26:24He's into the skateboarding. So, you know, he's pretty good, but, um, Oh, there's your children right there. Yeah. That's them. Let's go. Keith. That's awesome. That's my son with the Rancid shirt on. Then that's his girlfriend. That's my youngest one. And my daughter's at the end. Dude, congratulations, bro. That's so cool, man. It's cool. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. There's something just special about that, about seeing a man and his family, you know? Um, You look like you've lost weight since then, huh? Yeah, I've lost a good amount of weight. Have you? Are you taking the peptides? No. I just stopped eating horribly.

27:01And I'm running every day. And just, you know, like I wasn't eating well, I don't think. What were you eating? Everything.

27:14Everything. Did you have one snack like at night? What was that snack that got you at night? Like three gallons of ice cream or something. like I was eating a lot really you know like I guess it was gradual so people didn't realize but I'm not the biggest guy in the world and I weigh like 186 pounds it's a lot and uh so I slowly you know even though since I've been losing the weight people oh he's sick or he lost too much weight or whatever but you can never make people happy you're fat you're skinny you know you're short which I can't make myself taller so I don't understand that comment yeah get taller you're fat or whatever you're like yeah it's like What do you mean?

27:51They need me here. I'm closer to the fight. Yeah. You have a big head. Oh, right. I didn't choose to have a big head, so. Yeah, let me get this nail file. Yeah. So, like, things. But I feel good. I love that I've lost the weight. You know, I'm trying to put some muscle on. Did you have a health scare or anything like that? No, I wanted to be healthy. You know, a few things were going, and not so much with me, but around me. and I was like, you know, I want to make sure I'm healthier. What do you mean like a few things were going? Like a few people passed away. Oh, you saw people having the effects of not being healthy.

28:29Yeah, and just, you know, even, you know, some of them healthy but just, I guess, not lucky. So I'm like, got to give yourself the best chance, right? Yeah, sometimes you got to meet God halfway, you know? Yeah, and it's never going to be perfect but, you know, like I saw this barbecue place. I don't know where I am. I'm eating some fried alligator later For sure Hell yeah They got some good stuff around here The food scene's been getting better here in Nashville As the city's been growing too What about Did you struggle over the years with any addiction stuff? Did you drink? No I drank but I wasn't necessarily Struggling addiction I don't drink anymore Really but I never never really even tried drugs it was never kind of like I wrestled all the way through school oh that'll keep you clean and you know so I wasn't the greatest ever but I was really into it and and you know kind of kept me whatever I was I was wild enough without drugs yeah you're a drug yeah yeah yeah something already in there you know what I mean yeah you already got half a gram with something stuck in the back.

29:43Yeah, I was never attracted to it. Wow. That's wild, because I think people would look at you and probably think something like that. Yeah, probably, I guess. And people, I mean me, too. I thought it. In the music scene that I'm in, a lot of guys just, you know, probably you would think, oh, that guy's on drugs, but they're just on whatever. It's who they are, right? But I guess that, you know, even these days, the tattoos and stuff, you would think, oh, that guy's, but no. Are you fully tattooed? What are you? Yeah, I have sleeves, you know, sleeves and my back's almost done and stuff like that.

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30:21Wow. I, whatever, for some reason, I got my hands in my neck like real fast. I was young though, like 22. Oh, okay, so these have been there for a while. Yeah, yeah, I don't dislike them. Yeah, no, it's cool. It's definitely an energy. I mean, you seem like, you know, like, yeah, you're like, you're a no-nonsense guy, so it's like, you know, I think you kind of look a little bit like there's not a lot of nonsense allowed here. Yeah, I guess you're supposed to. So it's kind of wild that you almost grew into that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You kind of lived your life and then met that name right at the end.

30:54Yeah, it's kind of, yeah. I kind of mind my own business. I always have. I'm always, and it's just like I treat people the way that I want to be treated, which most of the time is left alone. right I'm nice to you know I'm nice to kids old people and animals keep moving on yeah what else can you ask out of a citizen that's it right I think that's fair yeah I think that's fair yeah I'd love to see you working at a petting zoo or something like that dude being like the operator or something I could have seen you working at like whenever like the carnival would come to town when I was a kid yeah I would definitely probably be a good carny right yeah dude but only on the like the ride it was the Gravitron where they had the dude in the middle that did the music.

31:39Yes, I love that ride. So I have an awesome Gravitron story. It was actually, I know the date. It was April 19th, 1985. This place local near me, it's called Eventual And and they had Gravitron and the Van Halen album, uh, 5150 just came out and they played that song. Why can't this be love? Like a hundred times. Me and my brother went on it like 80 times in a row and we just kept going. And then like, I would find, I was, um, yeah, it was, uh, it was my ninth birthday, I think. And, um, it was for my birthday. That's why I remember the date and, uh, the, uh, like you'd go and then have the rules right of every single thing and like every single one I'd break one of them my brother would be stop stop stop kick off my shoe and it'd come back at ya you know yeah I remember that that's crazy the grab-a-charm was like my favorite fuck yeah dude and that was like where cause that's dude at that time period like when we would go yeah I was like 11, 12 or something like that and you'd get in there and the dude who ran it would be like this kind of like kind of look like a guy that shouldn't be running yeah yes yeah like dude somebody who dropped this guy in here somebody hired him yeah and it almost looked like this this thing came from like outer space yeah you get in like they built it around them yes and the ramp would close up and it would be this dude who kind of looked like slash from guns and roses and and then and it would you'd slide up against that wall and you couldn't even like you could barely even move but every now and then you could like get your arm out and like Just put it on your friend.

33:20The more you went on it, the more your body got used to it. Really? You didn't go upside down and stuff like that. Oh, damn. I didn't know people got used to it. Yeah, sideways. Oh, shit. Look at this. Yeah, yeah. Like standing there. That's pretty brave there, too. See, I'm the other one. See the one where the guy's facing the wall? Yeah, like, he's getting me out of here. Yeah, the dude who would try to turn over and he just didn't have enough energy to get back over. That would be me. Just humping the edge of the gravitron. bodies like split dude that shit was cool though there was just something that guy looks like a normal guy there amazing guy running it there yeah that guy's an op dude that guy's not fucking real dude that guy's a narc probably but but dude that shit was so the whole idea of they're not spinning and you're spinning always like got me like i would always like x for explanation like he looks like he's spinning too yeah he's not dude did you have who influenced that music in you when you were a kid because I remember like my brother would listen to like uh Dio lock up the wolves yeah he would listen to some like like skinny puppy maybe I think was a band as well like nothing too crazy but like kind of a little bit of mainstream edge yeah skinny puppies yeah um good uh the you know the metal stuff like I kind of like just grab it you know like sort and was like I thought the guys would like the cut off sleeves and the long hair even though I've never had long hair i was like ever no damn some in the front like uh in the mid 90s i had like that skater hair thing but somebody make us a couple uh put together a few memes of um somebody out there who knows how to do it uh of uh of no nonsense with some long hair just we just so we have them for the future let's we'll throw a couple of them in or we'll put this clip online and put a couple of men i'd love to just see that yeah dude i can't believe we didn't even try it yeah no and then uh just that whole whatever and then like my brother as he was going he started listening to like the different metal but like Van Halen and you know stuff like that so we kind of got Motley Crue yeah my first ever concert was Poison I went with my brother he was a few years older so I went and then my second one was Motley Crue fuck dude that's so sick bro on Dr.

35:42Feelgood tour he's on the we've had Tommy Lee on here awesome yeah that's crazy so that tour he played like up on the ceiling and he just like did like even I think it was like ACDC cover songs and just like went across the ceiling it's pretty cool and your brother took you to that? yeah so you guys were pretty close does he play music? nah he actually passed away like a year and a half ago oh man young at like 50 oh so yeah but uh what was he was he suffering from something no he had um he had uh tumors but he he didn't know or didn't uh take care of i'm not sure which one but um he uh so he went to the hospital on a tuesday he died on a friday so it was real fast real fast so did you get to see him in between those days i was there the whole time you were yeah oh man yeah so yeah what was that like uh i mean i hate to ask you that good uh yeah sorry so no it's all right fuck it's not the most thoughtful question no i'm sorry that happened man yeah but uh so i bet he was super proud of you huh yeah so how yeah so how things work is like this stuff's gonna happen to all of us unfortunately yeah bad stuff right so the way i feel is how you're gonna handle those moments so i believe at that moment and it was handled as perfect as it possibly could um what makes you say that well you know in a room of people uh the room was full of people he loved and they loved him You know, he wasn't married.

37:23He didn't have kids. So my kids were like his kids. And so they're surrounded, you know, surrounded by his parents. And just as good as that could happen. You know what I mean? And so, you know, I don't know. Like, my brother was the nervous guy. He didn't seem nervous at that point. So I don't know. You know what I mean? But that's, yeah. Much is weird. That's kind of interesting, huh? I'll probably be crying like a baby. But, yeah, he had to, you know. The world is kind of nerve-wracking. It is. You know, when you think about it. Yeah. So that's how, like, he was always nervous, and I never was nervous about anything when we were kids.

38:04Even crossing the street, I'd run, and he'd be screaming. Yeah, yeah. So we were really, really close. It was like me and him. My mom worked most of the time two jobs and stuff. So it was me and him, and we were total opposite. um like even growing up like i got into like the metal music first he would listen to like cultural club and like tears for fears just different then he got into rock and roll stuff and um but um you know he he he was a comedian he was uh in school he was in the drama club and stuff and i was in sports so we were totally different but like the same i guess did you kind of feel like his protector sometimes in some ways uh well he was older than me but yeah I was definitely and you know sometimes you got that gritty brother yeah I was definitely that but it was weird how we balanced it like he as I said he was nervous and had major anxiety but like we were so different but it fit like perfect like our relationship was like good like really good what was his name?

39:15Rob Rob. Yeah. Nice, man. Rob Peterson? Yes, sir. Oh. Well, hello, Rob. Nice to meet you through your brother. And hope you guys are having a good time out there, wherever you are. Yeah, whatever you're doing. Yeah. For sure. Did he get to come see you referee? He never saw me referee. What? Actually, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess a lot of times you don't go watch somebody work. Yeah. But he came to see me fight. I actually have a pretty funny so I was fighting for a title amateur title in Atlantic City and him and his buddy was this one of your biggest fights? yeah I think it was my first amateur title fight so it was a big deal and it was actually no I was actually defending it I took a fight on short notice I bumped up a weight and I lost so now I was fighting the same kid but at our weight for the title he was gonna take my title whatever so my brother and his buddies come and i guess they're doing their thing pretty early and they're going you know uh atlantic city and and having fun and then i i come and as i say he's really nervous guy and uh he's standing in like the uh the hall but the cage is right there and he's like staring at the cage and he looks like he's sweating and i said to him i'm like yo what's up robbie and i'm right behind him and he's like oh my god you know fighting and you know you're getting older you have kids and whatever and and the ring girls walk by and i go hey robbie you see the ring goes he goes he goes i'm not that nervous of course i've seen the ring girls that was pretty funny it's like i'm on mine it was pretty funny and then i won the fight we went out it was a really good uh great night too oh i remember it being really really awesome so you had an amateur belt a few yeah a few I won that one Did you have a nickname when you were a fighter then?

41:16Shortly, the Spartan Yeah, so like we were watching 300 or something And someone said something like He was just fighting Hanging out with his wife And playing with his kids And they're like, oh, that's kind of like you I was like, oh, go with that Spartan I saw where you fought one guy three times Yeah Jose Villanueva What was that? Because that was like a trilogy, I guess Yeah. What did that feel like? Was that part of that same thing? Yeah. That was part of it. Oh, it was. Yeah. So you guys were 1-1? He ended up winning two. He ended up winning two. We went back up. We'll wait. And he won two.

41:54Did you feel like you could go back up? You're like, I got him here. I can go back up there and get him? Or what was that like? I don't know. I can't remember. I'm trying to think. I think back then. Did you have something against the guy? I don't know. But I think back then, you know, it was still kind of the amateur scene. is just kind of growing. With MMA? Yeah, and he was good, and I was good, and he was competitive. So, you know, probably, you know, I was trying to fight some other guys in between, so I was kickboxing and fighting Muay Thai fights too. But no, nothing against him. I actually reffed him a bunch of times after.

42:31Oh, that's pretty cool, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, this is part of that bout? Yeah, I think this is the one. So this is the one I bumped up, and I fought on three days notice. I lose this one, yeah. Keith, that's dope, bro. You're in there. It's weird that the ones I went on on here, and that's the guy, Donny Carly. That's him. The referee? Yeah, that's the guy who got me into reffing. Wow, that's cool. My first, yeah, my first. That's good defense right there, man. Yeah, I know how to wrestle a little bit, but my first, I think he does take me down, but I pop up, and basically what happens is.

43:07Oh, look at that, bro. Go back. Like, let's see a little bit of that freaking, yeah. You were loving that shit, huh? What happens is I miss a back fist, but I think if I hit it, he'd probably still be asleep, but I miss it and kind of get slammed on my head and move on from there. That's good. He submits me. That's cool, man. Yeah. Those fights were good. They were fun, and he was a good guy. And as I said, I reffed him after, even in his pro career. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Well, it's cool that you reffed him after and that the referee is the guy that got you. Yeah, there's a lot of connections.

43:40It's so amazing, man, about life. If you're able to stay kind of, as you're saying, healthy enough, right? If you're able to take care of yourself mentally enough to stay, you don't have to stay in the center lane. You can veer off a little bit. But if you're able to stay, so many of the pieces of our past kind of really connect and make the future make sense. For sure. Definitely. I've had, in the last couple of years, I've had so many moments like that. It's crazy. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Anyone that stands out? Well, so my first couple of years in high school, I didn't do so well. And I ended up doing pretty well.

44:18Like what do you mean didn't do so well? Like in school? In school, yeah. Did you not like it? Yeah, I guess. In like ninth grade, I didn't really do very good. People were like, were you like fighting with other kids? No, not so much. You know, back then kids fought more often than they do now for sure. but I just didn't you know I guess that whole punk rock feel like not listening to authority oh yeah yeah something like that but um so I didn't do so well and I went to Eastman High School didn't do so well there and then uh you know I ended up going a few different high schools we moved a bunch of times and um so it didn't end well and then um did you graduate?

44:57no I graduated oh yeah I graduated high school I went to college for a year and then I started I'm a diesel mechanic for what town I live in I've been there 28 years Are you still at Diesel McKinney? Yeah, yeah. Are you in the union? Yeah. Oh, wow. What union are you in? Now we're USP. We change a lot. But when I first started there, we were Teamsters. That was pretty cool. I thought the idea of being a Teamster was cool. Yeah, we had Sean O 'Brien in. He worked with the Teamsters. He was Teamsters president. I'm not sure if he still is. But so we've learned a little bit about unions over the years.

45:27I didn't know anything about him until we had him in, you know? Yeah, that's the whole union job is awesome. I'm able to do what I do and stuff that I want to do. and branch out. Wow, so you've been a decent mechanic this whole time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How'd you get into that? I decided college wasn't for me. My dad's like, well, working is get a good job. So got a job like back then when you left college, you were off your parents' benefits right after that. It wasn't like now where it's to 26. So I needed a job. I was roofing and I think I broke a rib or something and my dad was like, You need a job with insurance, and if you get hurt, you know, you get paid.

46:09So I found this town job, and I started a highway for a little while, like nine months, and then I got into the mechanic shop, and that was that. You started working on the highway? Yeah, so like, you know, mowing the lawns and stuff on the highway. Oh, wow. You ever find anything cool out there? No. Damn. Garbage that you have to pick up. That's it. I always want to find a body out there. Like a dead body? Long Island has a bunch of them on those highways. ways, but yeah. Or semi-living. I'll find, you know what I'm saying? I hope they're alive, but yeah. I could totally be fine with not finding a dead body.

46:42Yeah, definitely. I'm good. Yeah. Tomato, tomato, you know, a body part or something, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Foot. Just a thumbs up. Thumbs up. That'd be kind of cool. Yeah. Sounds like you're finding an emoji. Just like that. That'd be cool. Sean O 'Brien is still the general president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters as of October, 2025. Um, did you, uh, did Did you have a mentor that taught you how to be a diesel mechanic? No, kind of like on-the-job learning. I did have, you know, there were older guys there that were really good. And kind of like if, you know, if I can't fix it, I could break it even more, you know, just keep going.

47:17And then from there, you know. And did you teach your kids any of those kind of skills? Yeah, a little bit, you know, like the normal skills. Like, you know, like I actually, you know, there's kids that don't know how to change a flat tire these days. I've had a few of that. My kids know how to change flat tires, and my daughter knows how to change flat tires. Yeah. You know, stuff like that. And my younger guy is the one that seems to be the one that's going to be working with his hands. My older guy's a chef, so he works with his hands just differently. But I hope his hands aren't dirty when he's working.

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50:18so take us on the journey of how you get into working with the ufc um so i started raffin and um so each one you know is commissions in and i started raffin first in new jersey and then um pennsylvania uh got sanctioned and it's a really big state so i got a lot of work there and i was working putting in a lot of time there and um i think a few months into being sanctioned they had a show ufc 101 in in uh philadelphia and um and you went to the fight and i know i worked i reffed that one that's my first one was one-on-one and bring that up bring that card up i reffed the first two fights wow what was that like that first day i mean did you have your own like kind of green room?

51:08Was it a little bit different? What was that like? No, just normal. But you had to be so excited. Yeah. But how did you get it? I was actually so excited I didn't even know how to get in. So I've never gone to a venue without a ticket, right? So I didn't ask them. I didn't ask what I needed. And I got there and realized how do I get in? So now I know. You have to have your credential, obviously. So, you know, and I ended up getting it. But now I know how that works. but you just tried to come in through the ticket no I just got there and I was in the park lot and was like how am I getting in I don't have a ticket so yeah so that was you know 2009 so who were the other referees do you remember on the card maybe the same guys as now there's some I think some were still now maybe Mark Goddard yes actually I believe that was Mark Goddard's first time reffing in the states or UFC in the states or something like that So yes, he was on that card.

52:08BJ Penn. Wow, that's amazing. Dude. That's Forrest Griffin? Yep. Wow. Yeah, Anderson Silver versus Forrest Griffin. So it was a while now, I guess, right? Yeah. Was there a fighter that you reffed for early before he got to the UFC that you saw like in amateurs and stuff? Yeah, a bunch of them, like Paul Felder. Yeah, Paul's the best, huh? Yeah. He's fearless. He's awesome. Could you tell then When you were seeing Paul then Yeah Different level Al Quinta Yeah Different level Tough Yeah I think There's been a good amount Over the years That you see In the local Stuff And you ref And then And then you ref With them in the UFC Which is pretty cool That's pretty cool man For them and for me Yeah for sure Like for them That they're there Not that I'm there I don't think they really Care about that But yeah, for me, it's like, wow.

53:05Yeah. I'm a part of something. Yeah. Yeah. Like we're all on this journey to, we're all on the same journey in a way. Yeah. As I said, you know, it's like, besides, you know, my family stuff, it's the most important thing that, that I'm going to end up doing, you know, and to see, you know, you think about it, you left them in the, you know, the local scene and they're healthy enough to get there. Right. And, you know, you think, you have something to do with that. That's a good point. Was there ever a fighter that you remember that stood out that something happened in amateurs and they didn't make it like someone that really stood out over the years?

53:43Well, there's a lot of ones that you would say, oh, this guy is going to be and they don't you know, it's a tough sport. So, and anyone that comes to mind that kind of like that you not particularly name wise, but there's been guys where you go, wow, you know, sky's the limit. And then and just, you know, for whatever injury or it's hard, you know, like we were saying, you talk about having kids and stuff. I think, you know, once you start having kids and stuff, the guys that have these families and they train like that, you know how it's dedication that takes and sacrifice like a lot. And women, you know, who do the same, like the men and women who do that, it takes a lot, a lot, a lot to do.

54:26So, you know, at that level. Yeah. Oh, when you see a guy going away, like, um, to a camp for six weeks, eight weeks, 10 weeks to get ready. And there, a lot of times they're going to be away from their family. Maybe their family will come and visit on the weekends and stuff because, you know, there's, there's, um, there's only a few places in America where it's like kind of premier training. Um, and then you could go into the bout and losing the first round or, you know, it's like it could end in 30 seconds. Yeah. That's like training for the Olympics, you know, taking last. Right. You cannot train at all, take last.

55:01Yeah. Training for what? Your whole life, you know? So that's what makes it, you know, cool on the way too. Oh, that's the, that's why I like when I go to the fights and, you know, I like to go early. I just, because I'm like, this is like, this is their life, right? Yeah. I noticed that. You're getting to witness a piece of somebody's life. Like they, they, they mean this. Yeah. 90 if they're at that that level they mean this so much yeah that to even be in the presence of something like that i think gives me energy it's like i'm showing up to watch an eclipse almost something so rare you know yeah um are there fighters when they come in the ring like uh you know alex perera has that energy when you're in there when he comes in like when i'm in there as a fan and he there is a unique energy like that pentameter of i would say yeah there's definitely fighters with any that you feel the energy are there some like what are some that you would even name like are there some that dustin poirier yeah poirier people are excited yeah the people energy his own energy yeah just can feel it um that's interesting and uh like clay glider he's win or lose the energy is just so good yeah you see him you just get excited yeah yeah yeah just the energy and it's coming off of him you can feel it and that he wants to be there you know like wow you But, yeah, there's a lot of fighters that you just get that energy from.

56:23And then when you get it from both at the same time, that's where you really – it's firing off, right? Yeah. Is it tougher to referee some of the bigger fighters? Is it because of their body shape? Like when they're – is there a weight class that's a little bit tougher or different that you have to adjust how you do or where you place yourself? I don't know about tougher or different. Like the smaller guys are faster, the bigger guys are stronger, right? I'll just write physics, I guess. So you just, you know, make sure you're fast enough for the faster guys and you're in the right position for the bigger guys.

57:03I don't, like, have a preference. I can refer, whatever. You know, you want to be in the right position and, you know, they'll listen to your commands and, you know, Because people do ask, like, oh, how would you stop them? Same way you'd stop a small guy. And they always all honor the referee for the most part. For the most part, yeah. Because that's part of the code of— Yeah, you give respect. You get respect, right? Yeah, the level of respect that's in that ring is pretty amazing, too, I feel like. Yeah, I think people would be surprised, definitely, how respectful fighters are to me. I can't really speak for anyone, but to me, and obviously, you're not going to always agree, but for the most part, for the very, very most part, very respectful.

57:55Have you ever been at a fight where someone passed away in the ring or there was something that tragic that happened? No. Wow. That's amazing, man. That's a blessing. There's a lot of fights. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because you've ever played thousands of fights. Yeah, probably, yeah. Definitely. Definitely a lot of them, yeah. Is there anything different about refereeing a male fight to a female fight? No. I, you know, I've been lucky to get some of the best female fights ever. And there's really no difference. You know, it's, you know, pretty amazing the level that they've grown so quickly. For sure.

58:34And female sports in general. We, you know, talk about, you know, women's wrestling. and last year I went to the NAIA Women's Nationals Your daughter was in it? Yeah Oh she was Yeah She'd won the regional last year Let's go And The level of competition was insane Really? She fell short Her first year Last year So we'll see how this year goes But The level And these You know They're like They're not girls They're 26 year old women in college Oh that's a good one point. There's some real tough women out there. So it was amazing. Although I wish she had won a few matches, me and her sitting there watching that level together was two days.

59:21It was in Kansas and I was kind of, at the end, kind of happy she didn't do that well because we were able to go out for lunch and dinner and hang out. Oh, that's nice. This year's a new year and we'll see how she does. And she really loves it, huh? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. All my kids really loved wrestling. There's such a great value in that. There's such a great sense of like you can take care of yourself that you can handle yourself, I bet. There is. It's just, there's more. Like wrestling's the best sport, you know, that you could do in high school level and, well, youth level to college level. Oh, wrestlers will always be the craziest too.

1:00:01You'd like, you'd just be driving one day and you'd see your buddy wrapped in trash bags, right? It's like 90 degrees out in Louisiana. My buddy Paul Corso would be like, and I think it's his birthday actually today or tomorrow, but wrapped in trash bags just running down the highway. He's like, I got a fight in two hours. You're like, who are you fighting? You're fighting off Satan, brother. That's wild. Yeah, but same as what we were talking about with the dedication, that commitment, right? And then it carries on to almost anything. And also like, you know, like when you're wrestling and you feel defeat, right?

1:00:36like you're learning life lessons on a wrestling mat instead of having to learn it outside world where the you know the cost sometimes is a little more so you're learning it just by you know you know training and stepping on a wrestling mat there's not you know it's nothing better than that when I was going to MMA classes I remember there would be like days where like even after like I'd sit there at the end of the day and sometimes I would just like bawl like just emotions would come out of me but it was stuff that got unlocked that had been in my muscles or in my fascia or in me. And it was like the ability to be able to be like beaten by somebody that also cares that you're going to be okay at the same time.

1:01:18There's something really fascinating about that. And I don't think you can find it any other place, right? Like, you know, your competitor also, they want to beat you, but they also, some of them want to teach you, especially if you're new. It's just like, there's, it's unprecedented the different levels of wellbeing and competition and ferociousness and defeat that are all wrapped up in there. Yeah, and bonds can be made that way. Oh. You learn who all the cops are because all of them are off duty. Yeah. You know, they're all in there. And I saw a few guys that I used to train with and mostly in the stand-up stuff and, you know, buckets of blood.

1:01:56We would really go hard. A lot of people would come and be like, what the hell? Right? It was my early training and I just got bonds with those guys forever, you know seeing him is great and and we laugh about that because uh i don't know you spar pretty hard yeah so it was good it's good do you ever think that a fighter threw a fight or had given up but kept fighting what is that kind of energy like how do you manage something like that and how do you decide if it's just you interjecting some of your own thoughts into what's going on can you take me on even just some journeys about some of that so like you know what like if a guy is giving up or yeah like do you ever think a guy doesn't want to be in there but he's staying in there like do you ever get some of that energy yeah it's it's kind of the sport where if you don't want to be in there most likely you're not gonna be for very long right so like i have seen guys that it's not going very well and you can tell they definitely want to be there right that's a little easier to see i think um definitely but um yeah i guess it's a good point huh yeah usually if you don't want to be there at some point, you're not going to be there pretty quick.

1:03:03And you can see, you know, guys get surprised or, you know, overwhelmed. And for that moment, you know, live to fight another day and whatever. And, but usually like if a guy, you know, they, you know, you're stopping them. They're not stopping themselves for the most part. Have you ever had a guy stop himself or their corner stop them? What's some of that? I have like amateur stuff. Like I had a kid walk out of the cage and leave the other day. One for him. Good choice. Yeah. wasn't for him and I was amateur so like good decision yeah fuck yeah go get a smoothie I was like alright I waved it off and they're like what I'm like yeah once you leave it's over yeah yeah that'd be crazy he comes back in his mom's like walking back in with him or something or his buddies one time it was my buddy and he knocked this guy out and somehow his mom got in and you thought she was gonna to kneel down and tend to her son.

1:04:02But the doctors were there. He was being taken care of. She stepped over and gave him the finger. Gave my buddy the finger. It was crazy. I remember it was many years ago, but I remember because ACDC Thunderstruck was being played and the moms gave the kid the finger. It was pretty awesome. Oh, it's epic, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, have there been some other instances that have happened at the end of the match where what's that like? Because that's a lot of energy. People are coming into the ring. You still have fighters that are down sometimes. So obviously that was years and years ago. And so now it's, you know, only the right personnel coming in.

1:04:38But, you know, actually I fought on that card, that woman. So that was a long time ago. But, you know, it could be pretty crazy, you know, especially like the higher, you know, the event and loud and stuff. and then when the fight ends, sometimes it's just like that. It is. Yeah, it's just like, like, you know. So, yeah, it's crazy. And the more, over the years, the more you work, the more the sound's kind of, some you hear, some you don't. Like, I can pinpoint someone's voice, and then other, you know, there's thousands of people screaming. Yeah, it's crazy that it can be dead quiet in there with so many people in there sometimes.

1:05:23And sometimes there'll be certain cheers going on, but it's still, there's this real silence that's right up there by the cage. Like, it's almost eerie in a way. It can be. Or mysterious. Yeah. Or unique. It's powerful. Yeah. You know, because there can be like this insane moment, 20 ,000 people are watching. And it's quiet. Yeah. And then other times it's loud and cheering and you're like, what are they saying? Sometimes you can't understand what they're saying and stuff like that. And so it's like up and down. You know, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, it's like life, man. Yeah, yeah, up and down. Yeah.

1:06:00Did you ever suspect that a fighter threw a fight? No. No. Like, no. Like, some guys aren't, you know, obviously I ref all different levels. So some guys are coming in and they get punched and they're done. But that's just, you know, they're not throwing it. They just don't have the talent to, but I've never suspected anything like that. What was it like when Conor would come in the ring? Did you do any of his fights? I didn't. No, I didn't do any of his fights, but it was crazy. I've, uh, I've been, you know, I've worked cards where he was on and like, uh, Madison Square Garden when he fought the first Madison Square Garden.

1:06:39It was crazy. Yeah. And then even after you went outside and there was, uh, you know, Irish people cheering everywhere. Yeah. Oh yeah. They show up. Yeah. Yeah. They really do. So could you even tell us who you thought the best fighter is that you've seen? I don't know if I so I stopped looking at fights like a fan a pretty long time ago yeah I kind of don't see him that way I wouldn't even be able to like to pick a favorite fighter or say who's the best fighter or anything like that but you know obviously there's fights you make like wow that was really exciting or something like that yeah you know but yeah I kind of just very look good at it at the the referee standpoint these days mostly.

1:07:25Is there a fighter that you feel like plays by the rules the most? Well, there's a bunch of polite guys who are just polite. But for the most part, everyone really plays by the rules. That's a good point. I think a lot of the fouls that are accidental. You do? Yeah, I do. Some of it couldn't even if you wanted to do it the way it's such a fast thing. That's a good point. It'd be hard to strategize something like, yeah, I'm going to do this. But then you have some guys that are real grindy, and when they're in the cage, they're going to do what they have to do, and it is a fight, and you've got to try to control that.

1:08:06Did you get to ref any of Khabib's fights? Nope. So him and Conor, but mostly everyone else. Is there a reason why, you think? No, I don't believe there's a reason why. How do you guys determine which fights you'll referee? Do you draw out of a hat? No, the commission just gives you, you know, you'll go and you'll get your assignments. So I never really asked exactly what they use. So you and Herb Dean are back there like this then? No. Okay. No. So you come and they give you a sheet and you already have your assignments there. Oh. And is it almost like opening up like a Christmas wish list? Like in some ways, like are there some you're excited about?

1:08:43Like are there some actually you're happy you don't have to so you can sit and watch it? Or do you even think of it like that? No. That's like a fan thinking of it. it yeah i do sometimes and and this sounds maybe crazy but like if i'm like oh wow that fight would be hard i kind of hope i get it to see if uh you know if i'm if i could do it you know and and uh and what would determine if a fight would be kind of hard like what even in your head makes you think of that uh or what makes some fights harder than others yeah well some match-ups and and you know things are like oh this guy is really uh has one knockout power and this guy is really great on the ground but you know it's not very good at taking them down so then you know you're right so you don't know what you're gonna get right and i think that's what would make it harder or not complicated but interesting so let's get rid of the word harder but interesting for sure yeah i think it's so interesting how so many fighters have different reasons why they fight you know like some is to test themselves some don't even know some is to get rid of anger you know to challenge um some just love the violence you know i just think it's it's pretty fascinating to see how many uh why guys do it yeah different you know from different roads right yeah and everyone uh yeah you coach um and we can wrap up in a few minutes thank you so much man this has been cool i appreciate it you know it's like i get to go sometimes to the fights and get to see you guys there and it's like um you know it's almost like you i mean you guys are kind of like celebrities in that fighting world.

1:10:13I mean, that world is built so big that, I mean, the referees are celebrities. Yeah, sometimes it's like, oh, you know. But you'll have to have people that are excited to see you. There is, but, you know. It's crazy. Yeah, it is, because it's definitely not about, you know, me. Of course, but there's not a lot of other sports. I don't think, what's that been like? What's it like being a part of something that's changed? Like, have you noticed the changes over time? have you noticed a different energy in the space have you like have you noticed that fighters change what have you what have you noticed well it you know obviously it it's still young sport right and and it's it's growing and growing um not only like so i think was 2009 was my first so not only has that all changed but people have changed since 2009 so yeah fighters are different because people are different.

1:11:11And, you know, and we have, like, oh, the internet's even bigger and all that stuff. And, you know, so, yeah, a lot of things have changed, but the concept is there, right? Put two people in there and they fight. And so that's the same. Fighters, like, end up the same. Like, you know, even though times are different, like, eventually, like, you'll, even me talking to one, And, you know, they're there for one goal and, you know, to be competitive. And that's always stayed the same. Yeah. Yeah. Was there ever like a fighter that retired in the ring? Because, you know, a lot of times they'll lay their gloves down.

1:11:54Was there any moment, one of those that kind of stood out to you or? I'm trying to think. Or just one that even caught your own feelings? I believe, I might be wrong, but I believe Quake Guido retired the last time I reffed him, I think. So that would be pretty significant because I reffed him a few times and he's awesome. So I believe, and there's probably been others too that have retired after I reffed him. But those are always like, I know some of them you can feel coming, right? And then some you can't. It happens in wrestling too. They'll take off their shoes and they leave it in the center.

1:12:37And sometimes you're like, oh, yeah, makes sense. And other times it's like, hey, you got more to give and more to go. But as you said, the amount of time that stuff takes. Yeah. You spend time now coaching your daughters? Yeah. Is that true? Yeah. So my daughter and I. Is this her school? This was her high school. So I coached for the, well, she went, this is the team she wrestled for. So we have in our area, so we have one school, which is Bayshore, that has the girls wrestling team. And then the other schools, which she went to isolate, all go there. So I coach the Bayshore, I'm the assistant coach at the Bayshore girls team.

1:13:16And then me and my daughter run a club together called Empire Girls Wrestling together. So, and right now that's growing. Like the whole sport's growing. It's amazing. it's great that girls get the opportunity to be in what I believe is the best sport and it's awesome yeah it's awesome and then coaching with my daughter right now is really she's very good she actually coached at which is a big thing for us at the national team New York national team at Fargo this year it was her first year coaching there wow and she did really well and she's gonna be an awesome coach she's dynamite huh yeah what's her name Mora Mora oh that's a pretty name man yeah wow that's cool man oh there you go look at that so this was really cool how much nonsense does Maura allow not much either yeah there's not much going on not much nonsense this was August on the end of August it was the New York State Fair and they invited us and we brought a girls team and a boys team and the boys and the girls stay in like the 4-H dorms so they get the State Fair for free.

1:14:25The kids get to walk around and do all that. It was really cool. And then they wrestled us for the people that are watching. And then, yeah. So all those people are just walking by the State Fair, watching the dual meets. Dude, that's great entertainment. Why not put something like that in a place where people are already at and looking for entertainment? Yeah, it was pretty cool. Because so often, sometimes you'll put it in a gym or something and people don't even know, you know, especially a lot of times in high school or even outside, like in college people, you just don't know. But if you're at a fair, you're looking for entertainment and there it is it was really cool it was our first year doing it my wife uh planned it and um we got invited and it was really cool we'll do it again for sure it was really cool wow mora mora mora mora m-o-r-a m-o-r-a beautiful young lady that's awesome dude congratulations thanks i didn't yeah well you showed up yeah yeah yeah that's for sure you know yeah yeah i mean that's a lot of it yeah yeah and you kept going yeah yeah you know we're talking about it today It's like, yeah, like life has, there's a lot of little off ramps that you can get on.

1:15:23Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, you got, as we were just talking earlier about things that, you know, you don't think ever going to happen happens. And you just got to keep going forward. And then, you know, you know, eye on the prize, I guess. Yeah. So, yeah. So I'm lucky, you know, I got all these good things going. Yeah. It seems like you stay really busy. What is your daily routine like kind of? So I start work at the town at 7.30 to 4. At the Decent Mechanic? Yeah. And then - That's unbelievable. And then our practices, well, right now, our practices, just Empire practices, they're from 7 to 9 o 'clock on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays, and Sundays.

1:16:10And then now we're starting the high school season, so we have open mats for that too. Wow. Keeping busy. Yeah, that keeps you busy. You like staying busy, huh? Yeah, very. I like to stay busy. I like to, you know, keep moving. Yeah. Yeah, that's me. I don't sit around much. I've never been much of a sit-around type of guy. Yeah. So, but, you know, I... Well, too much nonsense can happen. Yeah, but you can still have fun. Yes, true. But you can have, like, I'm a pretty serious guy, but I'm, like, things I'm good at. I'm good at making fun of myself. I'm good at laughing. I know, you know, like, I came to see your show.

1:16:44That was funny. Yeah. And I was surprised by cousins were there. They're huge fans. They had a good time. Yeah, yeah. When they told me they were going to be there, I was like, oh, hey, I'm going. So they're huge fans. It was good. It was good. Thanks, man. It was funny, yeah. I'll accept that. I appreciate that. Hey, you're a referee. You would know, man. Well, I don't know about it if I know comedy, but. I'll take it, though. Yeah, yeah. It's good enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. I've laughed a few times. Hey, that's fair. That's all we can ask. From a guy who doesn't accept nonsense, that's the most we can ask.

1:17:15is there any other oh are referees allowed to is there like an alcohol rule with referees like I know with pilots can you look it up for me how soon before a flight can a pilot have alcohol is there a rule with referees that you can or can't drink before a fight you can't drink before a fight I would think it would be like 24 hours or something like that I never, you know. But they never, it's never like, they're not breathalyzing refs or anything like that. Yeah. But it would be hard to do. To what? Referee a fight if somebody had been drinking. It would probably be, well, it would be impossible.

1:17:56Like, to actually do the actual thing would be impossible. But then, you know, you spend, so you're in there, you're with doctors, commissions, and whatever, and I wouldn't think they'd let you. Yeah, somebody would catch on. Yeah, someone would catch on. Let me see what this says. Many airlines have stricter internal policies, with some requiring pilots to abstain for at least 12 hours before flying to allow sufficient time for metabolization. Dude, 12? I don't think 12 hours is long enough, to be honest. I agree, bro. 12 hours seems, you know. That's not that much, bro. Even when I hear something crazy, so I have a CDL, so it has to be zeros.

1:18:32When they do the drug test, they do a blow. You're allowed to blow a percentage. in summary pilots must avoid alcohol for at least eight hours before a flight maintain bac below zero point zero four yeah that's that's drunk in some states i think and not fly while hungover or impaired wow yeah so no yeah so i guess oh my god bro they should have to blow it in the front of the plane and show the number of the rest of the plane you know that's pretty crazy that's yeah No, we don't do breath labs or anything, but it's, it's, you, you wouldn't. It's never been an issue. No, I, you know. Yeah, have you never heard any, you've never heard of anybody having an issue?

1:19:15No, a real one. No. What's it like when you get there from when you, when you leave? Take me through a UFC fight as a referee. So you get there. How early, like how early do you get there? It's usually, it could be two hours, hour and a half. I think usually like. And who's there when you get there? Like is Megan O 'Leary in there yet or no? I guess. I don't know. Do you have a meeting with the commission? Yeah, like just take me through. So I straight go in and walk in, find the commission room. You know, obviously if I've been there before. But if I haven't been working in a place I've never been, walk in, find the commission room, get my assignments.

1:19:53When the fighters come, I do my one-on-one rules meeting. With each fighter? Yeah. Wow. Every fighter on the card? Every fighter I have on the card. Yep. So usually we'll go with the average is three fights on a card, right? I've had more, less if a cancellation, whatever. But go over the rules, ask them if they have any questions. Then, you know, depending on what state, mostly now you do also, you do RO, like a review official. What does that mean? So it's like the Instamoney play. We have Instamoney play now. And then the fight before yours, you usually do, you know, the gate when they walk in the check and so you're busy pretty much the whole time yeah and will you have like what do you eat before do you have an energy drink what do you do i don't have an energy drink but uh some places i eat before sometimes i don't eat before it all depends like um when i are from new jersey there's a few restaurants i'll have have something um madison square garden i always go to the same place and i eat there what is it uh it's a molly we pub and they have like um Irish beef stew and I yeah you know get what you like I like quesadillas that have with almond flour tortillas we like what we like yeah yeah yeah so I get that and then you know so and that like like give you an idea like MSG I do the same thing every time so there's a guy I wish I could remember the name of his company but I can't right now but he sells shirts and stuff outside I go out and say hello to him every single time right he's always out there no matter how cold no matter what the guy's out there he's awesome he's right on 8th Avenue.

1:21:32He's on the corner. And then I say hello to him and I go down and get ready to go. And then I go to the mall and then I eat, usually the beef stew, and then get going. Yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of a creature of habit in some ways, you know? Yeah, I'm very much the same. I use the word criteria and whatever, but this is how I do it, but almost everything I'm like that, really. hey discipline equals freedom man that's what jocko willink always says yeah that's pretty yeah that's awesome and i think that's kind of true it's like if you get up and get the things you don't want to do done out of the day your day is so different yeah you know yeah definitely um have you ever been unable to do a referee a fight and for what reason uh before you go Yeah, well, I have a story of, like, I reffed, but I had, when I was reffing, I had two kidney stones and staples, like, in my stomach.

1:22:35So it's a crazy story. I had my appendix out when I was, like, 20, and then a few years ago, I had it out again. so they took out the appendix but they left in like a stub so I actually had my appendix out twice, pretty interesting or you got scammed either way it was the same hospital who forgot a little? I don't know and it was bad so they had to like that's real nonsense and the fact that when I asked you know I'm like hey does this happen? they're like uh it does I'm like, oh. So I also, at the same time, had kidney stones. So I did a recovery, and so everything was kind of miserable. And I had a big show, an event coming up, and it was an important one for me.

1:23:31A fight? Yeah. A fight. And it was just a little meeting to me. It was local, and I had the main event. It was just, so I decided in my head I was going to do it. So I ended up getting the doctor that I was going to see every two days for the recovery to say you can do it. And she was like, you can do it. I said, great. But the staples were getting really tight. So I took a few of them out from the top. By yourself? Yeah. And then it was easy, though. They were coming out already. Yeah, it's like Build-A-Bear. Yeah, yeah. Just put it together. Boom, boom, boom, boom, you know. And then, so then, but the kidney stones started kicking in really bad.

1:24:17It was just a weird time. And so the night before, I'm like really panic button. I'm about to say I can't do it. But I hung in there. So the next day I get there. And then the pain's kind of starting to go away a little bit. So I get to the event. I get the fights in the main event like I was hoping and awesome place that I've always wanted to work and so the bathroom is like attached like the fans and us were using the same bathroom so I walk by and they're like oh Keith you're the man so I walk into the bathroom and now I'm feeling pain like real bad so from the kidney stone yeah so boom I pass it it goes ta-ting yeah yeah it hits the thing all good for that like well the pain was still there but it felt so much better yeah and I was walking out and the you'll shoot your eye out and the kids like the kids like oh you're a legend and all I can think of is you should have saw what just happened in there dude like and crazy and then the event went great and then um and then I passed the other one cause I had two on the way to Seattle the next week in the plane oh yeah you got to save one for when you travel.

1:25:36Yeah. Yeah. It's just miserable. But, but yeah, it's kind of a funny story. And then the appendix out to it is pretty funny because even it was actually almost ended up being bad because I was telling people what was wrong with me because I was. Oh, and they thought it was already done. That was already done. So they kept skipping over that. and, and yeah, so it was a week or so and I was pretty infection by then, you know, caught in but it was fine and everything worked out great but dude that's wild that just to know if people want to know if some of these referees are tough or not this guy's passing kidney stones between fights in the bathroom that's pretty unprecedented um keith peterson man thank you so much one for always making me feel welcome when i'm at the fights it's such an honor to get to see you guys, man.

1:26:30That, it's, will you agree with this, that it's one of the most, the people that make that, that are part of that company that put that event on, it's pretty spectacular. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is. Like, yeah. Some of the, like, T-Mobile. It's just all so special. Everything about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you see the same people over and over again, and it really does feel like a family over there. Yeah, it is. Does it feel like that to you? Yeah, yeah. You know, as we figured that i kind of keep to myself but right uh there's some people i see every time that i really great people and and um you know i speak to them and uh briefly and it's a really you know well thank you so much for all your efforts man thanks for continuing to just support uh wrestling and i think uh that it's just you know you being out there just inspires other young people to get into it and just having like um so much history yourself in it and uh yeah thank you for letting us talk about your family and stuff today, man.

1:27:25And yeah, cheers to many more years of being on the journey, man. Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Amen. You bet. Thank you. Now I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found. I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take

From the publisher

“No Nonsense” Keith Peterson is a professional MMA referee known for his work in the UFC. He is also a diesel mechanic and a wrestling coach in New York.

Keith joins Theo to talk about what’s going through the mind of a referee during a fight, his alter ego as a frontman in a hardcore band, and what he loves about coaching his daughter in wrestling.

Keith Peterson: https://www.instagram.com/thereal.keith.peterson/

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#620 - Keith Peterson

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