#663 - Porn Recovery Coach Steven Wolt

29:46It was a lot of things. And I didn't have like a safe outlet to talk about it. Um, and I didn't have any groundwork of like healthy connection at all. So that, uh, so I think it, yeah, that just made it like kind of tough. And then to avoid it, I would be like, okay, well I have these sexual feelings. I'll just go and, uh, use jerking off or whatever, something like that, as opposed to, uh, trying to figure out how to work them out because working them out in real time when you're a kid like when you're young you know when you're at adolescent or whatever it's kind of scary you know it's like a lot of that's scary you know yeah where do you go to talk about this stuff right and your peers like some of them are kind of helpful but some of them are also like like other kids can be assholes about this stuff so um anyway i'm trying to some of it i can't i can't remember exactly some of the ways but yeah instead of like engaging sometimes i'll be like oh i'm too nervous to even talk to that girl, I'll just masturbate later on or something.

30:45Well, you know, it's interesting. Does that make sense at all? It makes perfect sense. Okay. I mean, men begin to prefer the safety of porn versus the unpredictability of relationships and real people. Yeah. So once again, recovery is not just about stopping a behavior. Recovery is learning how to relate, engage, and connect with others. Recovery is about learning how to experience real intimacy, which, sorry, has to include some vulnerability and taking some emotional risk. Recovery is about learning to experience the joys of connection and love, right? Because if you're not on that path, it's hard not to be in pain and suffering.

31:30And so it's so important in recovery. So when you think about why this is so hard, right? You just talked about it, right? If you don't understand the neuroscience and the nervous system regulation, guys just stay in this hamster wheel loop. If you don't identify some of the root causes that are driving this compulsion, you're vulnerable to returning to it. And if you don't do a deeper dive around intimacy and what's blocking you from connection, you stay in pain and lonely. So kind of all three of these need to be addressed in order for lasting recovery to occur. Yeah. But it's more than that.

32:05And I'll tell you a few other thoughts I have on why this is so hard. Early recovery can be very painful. And so when you so overstimulate your brain from pornography and from sexualized social media, when you stop engaging those behaviors, your mood can be flat. You can have low energy and you can have intolerable boredom. and people think that boredom is the enemy. It's not. It's actually your body recalibrating. Everything you want in life is on the other side of you learning how to tolerate boredom. But for so many men, they quit too early because they can't sit with this discomfort. The other challenge we see constantly is that so many guys quit before the miracle happens.

32:58I mean, I struggled for many years before I was able to make real progress in my recovery. You know, oftentimes in recovery circles, we measure sobriety success by continuous days of sobriety. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, six months, a year. All good stuff, right? All good stuff. Right. However, however, that cannot be the sole measurement of progress because for many guys, myself included, they're not gonna get it right away. right? It's going to be a journey. And if you keep kind of having a relapse and you go down this massive shame spiral that you're failing, that you're a failure, you give up.

33:43So recovery is about becoming emotionally regulated, socially connected, learning to live with honor and integrity so that you don't need porn anymore. That can take time. Recovery is about building a life you don't need to escape from. That can take time. And so for many guys, especially single guys, right, where there's not external leverage or consequences on you, right? A married guy, he's really in trouble with his relationship. He's got to get sober or the marriage is at risk. Right. That's one dynamic. But now you've got a single guy right now. What is the motivation for him right now to continue on this work?

34:20You got to keep that person inspired and motivated to continue to do the work. And guess what? If the best that you can do is watch 80 to 90 % less porn in any given month, great job. Great job. As long as that is in conjunction with you developing new habits to take better care of yourself physically, spiritually, and emotionally, recovery is a, the ability to sustain abstinence will be a byproduct of you taking better care of yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Yeah, it's a three-sided deal. 100%. So guys quit too early. Like, where are you going? We just got started. And so why not also measure consistency of going to the gym, consistency of making social plans, consistency of learning a new hobby.

35:10Keeping your word. Dude. Taking care of yourself. Let's measure that stuff in addition to your sober day count. Yeah, there's a lot of other factors that start to gauge that you can use to self-gauge as well and that are super important. But also a lot of those factors are things that it's also just like,

35:27it's getting up, being active. I want to take care of myself physically. I want to meditate. I want to have a relationship with a higher power. I want to nurture this gift, this thing that I am. right and there's this other it's such a pandora's box porn is because it's like here's this thing and it's just it's tricked it's tricked it's it's it's it's like a it's a just a finely calculated molecule of the devil really you know and it's it's and so when sometimes people are like man we're not at war there's not a lot going on but we're sitting here losing a battle a lot of times so i do think there's that there's it there is this inspirational element sometimes, um, where I'll feel like I can, I like, if I want a war, there's one every single day for me against the dark arts, against the things that want to drag me down, you know, against the things that are literally are, uh, are finessed to take away the essence of me, right?

36:37The essence of me, man. And so it's like, there's a battle right now. I think for a lot of that. And a lot of us don't realize, um, well, and, and we can get kind of like, uh, lullaby into the comfort of it. You don't think it's a big deal. You're looking at it once or twice. Right. But then you, you, like, I would notice for myself, if I was doing jerking off or whatever, something like that, the next day I'd feel a little bit kind of bad about myself or I'd be shorter with people. Um, if I looked at pornography, it made me look at, uh, like, uh, dates and stuff. it just made me like it carried a little bit of shame inside of me you don't even realize that sometimes it's like you don't think it's on the forefront of you or that it's it's affecting like the look in your eyes or anything but there's a little bit of that in there you know it kind of like colors your coffee a little bit it's like um but it's not the best color you know does any of this stuff make sense that i'm saying you you kind of rambling no no no there's i want to i want to it's hard to explain yeah you did a good job with it a few things that come to mind number one you talked about the rig system.

37:39And so I read this, I shared this with you on a phone a few weeks ago. I read this stat that said that the dopamine spike is from the anticipation of watching the next video and not the video you're actually watching. Wow. So the addiction is to the scroll and like dopamine this is i may butcher this but i think that's what it said dopamine is not the pleasure chemical it's the motivation chemical it's the chemical of pursuit what's next so social media is rigged this way pornography is rigged this way you know back in the day you know getting access to porn was going to some creepy video store yeah going behind a curtain It's an adult only or beads, those beads that would hang.

38:33You obviously know. And all of a sudden to get this VHS in a brown paper bag, put it underneath your arm and do the walk of shame home. Yeah. Right. But you go watch that VHS, you know, for 15 minutes, do whatever and go about your day. That's not what modern day porn abuse looks like. It's infinite novelty where you're constantly scrolling for sexual imagery hours at a time. This is a whole new beast. Yeah, it says it right here. Industry analytics and search engine studies estimate that pornographic content accounts for roughly 20 % of all internet searches on mobile devices. That's astronomical.

39:19This is notably higher than desktop search rates, which generally clock in around 13%. The primary driver of this higher mobile percentage is the privacy, portability, and convenience that smartphones provide. Because of this, studies from major adult entertainment networks indicate the vast majority of adult content is accessed via a cell phone. Yeah, I read the other day that Pornhub, which is banned here in Tennessee, I do want to say that. Is that right? You have to have an ID to access it. That's correct. And that thing that they have, I think it's the Tennessee Minors Act. Is that what it is?

40:01The Protect Tennessee Minors Act is a state law mandating that commercial websites and digital platforms containing a substantial portion of content harmful to minors implement reasonable age verification methods. So you have to, you have to enter your ID. That's a huge thing because it makes you take some accountability. Okay, well, am I, is this something that I'm willing to say I do? Right? Is this something I'm willing to put my name, my height, my data. Am I really, you know what I'm saying? Am I willing to go that far with it? Um, I love that. I love that. Like there's been times where I've wanted to go look at stuff and that stopped me right there.

40:35Great. Yeah. So I do find that that is helpful because it like, um, yeah, I don't want to put myself in there really. Like I want to look at it as like this guy in the distance. Right. Have they seen fake IDs spiking right now? Cause people want, That's a great question. Good business, perhaps. Yeah. Around 7 % to 11 % of men self-report experiencing problematic pornography use or feeling addicted. I mean, that's unbelievable, man. And it's just not porn, right? You look at the content that's on X. You look at the content that's on Instagram, Facebook Reels, right? That sexualized content can have the same effect on the brain as watching pornography.

41:16And so it's an issue. And so we live in a really tricky time right now because it's everywhere. It's unbelievable that it exists. It is unbelievable that we allow it as well. You know, that we allow it. Well, there's also a societal thing with guys. Like that's what guys do, right? It's cool watching porn. And I'll tell you the truth. That ain't so cool. Guys don't do it together. I've never had guys watch a game together. I've never had a guy be like, hey man, I'm having a couple of the guys over. To watch some porn? Yeah. The thing that's really interesting to me is, here's the truth. So many men who abuse pornography, right?

42:00It affects their sexual performance. It affects how they show up in relationships and it builds shame, right? So, so many men struggle with sexual performance. That's not a new thing. But what is new and I think quite concerning is how many of those men are under the age of 40. They turn to Cialis, Viagra, testosterone replacement therapy, thinking that something's wrong with them physically. When the truth is, and the reality is, is their sexual dysfunction is probably caused by all the porn they're consuming. So heavy porn use can rewire the brain. And even my own story. Is that true? Heavy porn use can rewire the brain and cause all types of problems in the bedroom.

42:42Like even in my own story, right? I had difficulty getting and maintaining an erection during sex, especially with a partner. I had difficulty orgasming towards the end of my run with pornography. I had difficulty maintaining an erection and I needed porn stimulation to stay aroused. And heavy porn use can absolutely lead to premature ejaculation. You know, one of the things I didn't share in my story, which is important to talk about, right? Because there's probably a bunch of your listeners right now listening, waiting for someone to tell the damn truth. You know, when I first started consuming porn early in my life, before that relationship, I struggled with premature ejaculation.

43:21And I had so much shame and embarrassment around it. I got to a point where I'd rather not be with a woman than be with a woman and have that type of sexual performance. You feel like you were just so nervous about sex? I mean, it makes sense. Sex is a nervous thing for a youngster. I didn't realize a few things. For the children. Sex is nervous for the children. It's a nervous thing. Even for adults. Yeah. And so what I didn't realize at that time was that all the porn that I was consuming and the way that I was actually masturbating to it kind of conditioned my brain to orgasm quickly, and that carried over to real-life scenarios.

43:59I didn't realize at that time that the intense porn that I was watching so overstimulated my brain, leading to early orgasm. Wow. So my porn use was tied to shame and secrecy, which fueled kind of anxiety around sex, making it kind of uncomfortable. And porn was the cause of this. Yeah. So that's one area. Men, not so manly when you think about, hey, is it really that cool? Right. Second challenge that guys tend to have, it can totally affect how guys show up in relationships. Oh, yeah, dude. watching like like touching your body or whatever jerking off or whatever it was like um it was like it just made it easier than having to go and try with women and having to go and have a relationship it made it all just easier and if you came from like and for me i just there was so much it was so uncomfortable that i was like i don't really i mean i guess i had a choice, but it just was too much of a, of a easy alternative.

45:06It was like, I don't, I don't know. Like, you know, I'm so embarrassed. I'm so like, just have so low self-worth, so many little things that are like, man, I can't, I can't go ask this girl out or do, you know? So it became this little thing. And then the, this was the part that I was going to get that you made me about sorry every everything about sex felt like a secret right like i would like it was always like when i was growing up we would go in the woods and see the tits or whatever chiseled in the wood or whatever or you would sneak into is that still around you think i'm sure it's been no i think they had weevils or whatever got it i think it was that i can't remember exactly i have to look it up okay but or it could have been one of those new ticks that uh bill gates unleashed or whatever, but whatever, I'm sure it's gone these days.

45:54Or it's really, it's eroded to an A cup, you know, for sure. And what's the point to visit it then, right? Come on. At the time, those things were, oh. And they're making a road trip for an A cup. Dude, they had a woodpecker would land on one of them. That's big. Pretty nice. So, but dude, the biggest thing I think about, like, it was just like, everything with sex when I was young became like secretive. it became like secretive because yeah if you were looking at pornography she was doing masturbation you was sneaking off and doing it so everything became secret so then like everything like even when like dating i never want anybody to know was i was very secretive about stuff so it always had all this like a little bit of extra like kind of taboo around it i think i don't even know what that means but it was just like you know when things are in secret it's it's you know they they things in secret can be kind of uncomfortable things you're always trying to hide can be kind of uncomfortable.

46:49That's right. And I, you know, I think also that secrecy can lead to shame. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, you're always, if something's in secret, you're always worried somebody's going to find out about it. And I didn't have any positive, like a relationship with sex or no, like I didn't have any, not like I didn't, nobody taught me it. It told me nothing about it. It was just like your body, you're going to change. And then you're like dealing with it. And I'm still waiting to get the birds and beads conversation from dad. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. They should just have a decent man that travels around the country helping just have the birds and the bees conversation.

47:27Like a temporary rented dad to have the conversation with you when you're like 12. Yeah. Just like some wiener Santa or whatever. He travels around. He pulls up. You know what I'm saying? Do it outside where it's in view of, you know, where the Lord can see it. But anyway, you were going into a second part about. Relationships. how it affects relationships and dude i'll even remember like if you've been if i if i say if you but if i'd been like you know doing touching myself or whatever yurking off or whatever like that then i would uh it you're right when you said it's like it changed the amount of intimacy now it's like if my girl and i are going somewhere maybe i i i don't i would i wouldn't touch her touch her elbow or like you know what i'm saying or like give her a pinch or like you know i'm saying i wouldn't create that energy so a lot of that energy disappears and that's the thing i think that uh we don't realize a lot it's that little like that yin and yang that whole thing that keeps like nature and society and and really the future because of procreation which keeps it all in balance is this kind of tension right a romantic kind of like samba between like like her aura and mine and pornography like uh weakens that and then you're right people take into their head, like a woman will take in her head, like, oh, something's wrong with me, or he thinks I'm not this way, or I can't do these things, which is, you know what I'm saying?

48:51So it's just, it's a tough cycle. And I think a lot of it does fall on us men, because we got to be stronger, you know? I'm not saying that I'm great at it or anything, but I do think that somebody's got to come to the rescue of us, and I think it has to be us. Well, no one's coming to rescue us, right? You got to take accountability in your own life, but I think you really eloquently kind of laid out the dynamics that porn abuse can have in relationship. Did I really? You really did. That was really well said. And, you know. I just, I feel bad about some of the, I feel like, dang, I wasted a couple of relationships.

49:30I wasted some, and I wasted somebody's time and I wasted like, and I didn't even know it. But yeah, some of that. You know it now. The only way you learn and grow. Yeah. And, you know, what you often see when men abuse porn over time, they can lose attraction for their partners because they can't compete with porn. I mean, how unfair is that? Yes. There could be less desire for romance. I'll say it again. Pornography abuse burns off the nerve endings of sensuality in relationships. Less touching, holding, kissing, caressing. So if I'm watching porn, you know, maybe I don't notice the waves in my wife's hair.

50:08If I'm watching porn, we hold hands less perhaps. So pornography abuse can deaden the vibrancy of our partners, our wives, and our marriages. I mean, that kind of sucks. Yeah, well, it dims the way you feel. For me, it dims the way I feel if I'm waking up. That's right. Like, oh, I still, my first thought sometimes is if I'd looked at pornography the day before, it's like, oh, man, I wish I hadn't done that. I think I can not do it. You know, it's like, but you're always in this war. It puts you always in like this battlefield. It's like being hooked up to an IV drip of shame. And for not every guy, right?

50:42We're not talking about the casual use. We're talking about the compulsive use. And the other thing you tend to see over time, the guys that end up abusing pornography, porn and masturbation just become the preferred sexual outlet. And shame and secrecy and guilt become the norm. And because of that shame, so many guys, especially our young guys, are not dating. They've given up on dating. They're not actually having physical sex. I read a stat not too long ago that one out of three men under the age of 30 have not had sex in the last year. One out of three men? One out of three men under the age of 30 have not had sex in the last year.

51:23But some of those men could be 10 years old or whatever. I would imagine, I didn't look at the fine print of the thing. I would imagine it probably told me age 18 to 30. Oh, they should say that then. They should probably, yeah, good point. Because if it's like this five-year residence, you're like, yeah, I hope not. Yeah, we'll fact check this right now. Anyway, recent data from the General Social Survey indicates that nearly one quarter of young adults aged 18 to 29 reported having no sex in the past year, looking specifically at younger single men under 30. The rate of sexlessness can climb closer to one third.

51:59And then, bro, you know what happens? I think when you start to like... when you dim the men in a culture, anything can come in there. Sure. It's like when you dim the warriors who are standing at the gate, anything can slip in there, you know? And then they come in and now they got the women on OnlyFans because they're not in a relationship and there's not like a provider and there's not like a leader and you're not part of like a, we're doing this together, right? And then like everything's for sale. It's like, what's for sale now, you know? And I don't mean that, it's not, none of that's negativity at anybody.

52:32It's just like, you know it's just like I don't know do I sound judgmental I'm just kind of looking at it I think it all makes me just like I don't know I feel like we're stronger than this but we are in a war well I think what you're highlighting and what I'm hearing you say is so many of our young men in particular they lack confidence in themselves they're full of shame right they don't have the they can't handle rejection, right? The world needs healthy, strong men and pornography abuse is emasculating our men today. That's what I'm saying. That was definitely the case for me, 100%. But here's the deal.

53:16And I need your listeners to hear this right now. Yeah, amen. Cause I don't want to get stuck in the dour parts of it and that things are not healable because that's not the truth. That's not the truth. The truth is it is time to reclaim your damn manhood. Type shit. You know, seriously. No, I feel you. Enough is enough. Right. Enough is enough right now. There's a cesspool out there that are killing our men today. So let me tell you, in my own journey, when I got the right type of help, I was able to work through these sexual dysfunction. When I got the right type of help, I was able to be in a healthy relationship where I felt good about myself as a partner, as a man.

53:55So it's not just like Steve stops watching porn and everything fixes Excel. Right. Don't work that way. It's a process of retraining your brain, your body, and your relationship to intimacy. Amen. What were some of the first, like the initial moments? Was there kind of like a day or a time in a rehab? Because you went to some different, is it okay to say that you went to some different rehabs? Yeah, I went to all of them. You did?

54:18Fucking boy. Dude, Steve was a animal out there in the park. His old partying stories are great, bro. That's right. You have some great ones. And I'm not talking just sex. I'm not talking sexual. I'm talking like just your AA partying stories. And sometimes we tell those war stories because it keeps you out of the battle. 100%. And you got to laugh at them now. Oh, dude, if I go to an AA meeting and I laugh with my friends about like times where we all used to do stupid stuff or something ridiculous. That's right. The feeling I get laughing with friends, I leave out of there. I don't want to drink.

54:47I don't want to use. I don't want to do anything harmful to myself because I've just felt connection. And that gives me something that I'm supposed to have. So like you ever see like on a, maybe Theo Vaughn or the Red Hot Chili Peppers go on tour, they have t-shirts that list all the cities they visited. I did that with rehabs. So I mean, come on, dude. And so - What was your tour called? Do you have a tour name? I don't have a name for it. Maybe you could help me out with that. And so, you know, it's just the journey's the journey, man. And so once again, it's, you know, it's about perseverance and not giving up.

55:26But I'll tell you some things that are interesting that when I was able to get the right type of help, as it relates to my porn addiction, I was able to stabilize my arousal. Stabilize your arousal? Arousal. Okay. Tell me what that means when you say that. You know, I was, pornography abuse so distorted my view of women. Pornography abuse had me in a constant place of euphoric recall and fantasy, right? And so I had to learn how to not rely on that kind of dopamine-fueled kind of energy to deal with life. I had to learn how to build sensation for sexual experiences, to be present in sexual experiences.

56:13So when I got into recovery, dude, my sex life was so enjoyable, right? I learned how to kind of make love and connection and kissing and sensuality, all kinds of beautiful stuff. When you get into recovery, oftentimes here, you have better erections and more satisfying sex. That's what I want. I want that super erection. That's it. And you hear all the time that guys get into recovery and sustain recovery. it's so much more enjoyable they're present for it they're not full of shame there's a confidence that comes from it yeah I want that wiener that plays the game I feel like my wiener is a designated hitter it'll get up to the plate but it knows it's not going to be out in the field it's just showing up for the freaking Otani's a DH sometimes Otani is?

57:00yes what are you trying to say? I got a small wiener? I'm not sure what I wanted to say I'm not sure what I was saying with that although he gets a lot of home runs So that's what we're talking about. Yeah. Uh, we might take that part out, which is fine. Um, so, so you're saying like, you know, and you noticed that, like, do you remember, do you remember like a first experience where you kind of noticed something small that you were like, Oh wow, these things that I'm doing in recovery are working. And then what were some of the things that you were doing in recovery? Well, I did a bunch in recovery, right?

57:31And so I did a lot of therapy. I was really active in 12 step recovery. I was, you know, had my own personal coaches that were really helpful. And I'll tell you, I believe that recovery is a team sport. I think men need other men to become better men. I think men need vulnerability role models. Men need love and support. Men need around other men that have similar life experiences around sex to transcend the shame that's keeping our lives small. I think that's really, really important. I think men heal best in community as it relates to sexual compulsivity. And so - Yeah, it's so hard to heal in shame by yourself, bro.

58:10You can't. I don't think you can. I know, man. I don't think you can. It's tough for people, huh? Yeah, so I think, you know, in conjunction with that, so many men today are so isolated and so lonely. And so that's the driver of some of these behaviors. So once again, the roadmap to healing has to lay the groundwork for connection and community. And so where you practice kind of being part of something bigger than yourself, you practice honesty, you practice vulnerability. It gets modeled to you. Really important for men to see other men living this way. Like in recovery circles and stuff? 100%.

58:53Oh, yeah, man. Oh, I'll sometimes, man, I'll be in a meeting and it's like some guy will say something. my friend James Beshera he always tells me uh he says we are the keys to each other's locks that's what he says that's sweet it's one of the best things man I think about it every single day you know it's like something that gives me hope I think a lot of times yeah because it's like uh somebody will say something man that like something inside of me has been trying to save my whole life and I just couldn't put the right few words together it doesn't even have to be a big huge words or fancy words sometimes it's just a simple thing but somebody will say it and a part of me will exhale that's been waiting to exhale for so long how sweet is that yeah oh it's amazing man so yeah i i can't iterate how much recovery and and the community right yeah and then the fact that like dude sometimes like i'll notice like uh especially these days you we get so caught up in our own worlds, but it almost feels like a gift when I think about when somebody else comes into my mind or heart, like there's times where I purposely sit down.

59:57I want to think about people and stuff, but if I'm just like, I'll be like, Oh, I just saw them the other day and they mentioned this. Let me call and check in about it. Or just something that's like, if it's about somebody else, bro, that's like the, when that happens naturally in my head, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. and it's just because of community but it only happens if i go to those meetings if i'm interacting with guys that's right if i'm a part of of community right and you need guys in your life like okay theo enough with the show what's really going on right you need guys like that oh dude to tell somebody that bro i'm fucking yeah like this i was in a meeting this morning man i'm trying to let me think about what i said if i'm really honest right i got into a meeting a lot of times I'll do a zoom in the mornings uh you and I go to one that's similar is that okay to say please um and I'll be in the gym I'll work out while I'm in there so I'll listen because it helps me get two things done it makes me feel pretty like I'm doing something and uh what I say today oh I'm trying to keep some negative things out of my head so I'm staying focused I'm staying on a path um like I'm I'm staying active because if I stay active I stand a better chance when those things come into my head.

1:01:14Uh, and I was trying to be honest to guys like, Hey, these are some of the things that I've been thinking about. I know that these things grow. If I don't share about them at this level, at this level of being a seed, I know it'll grow into a, it'll grow into a cactus that I don't want inside of me. So I have to share it at a seed, right? I had to learn a lot of times. I forget juggling a lot of cactuses because, but learning to share something at a seed level, um, calling it out early, calling it out early. yes and then just that like uh yeah like i'm so sick of myself but i feel like i'm the only person that i have and that was like and i know it's not true but to share even if it's a feeling right because once i shared this feeling i know it's not true i have a ton i have a lot of friends i have people that love me but sometimes i have to share what a feeling is right so it doesn't because that feeling sometimes can grow if i don't share it it sits in there you know anyway Does that make any sense?

1:02:09I make, you know, it's so interesting as you're sharing, I'm just thinking about this concept of like, like recovery is about this journey towards healthy masculinity. And when you think about like, like the word masculinity often gets conflated with toxicity today, which I think is kind of unfair. Oh, it's unfair. And I think it's by design. That's right. Masculinity to me is what you just talked about. honesty, integrity, vulnerability, courage, being a protector, being a provider, being a great friend, showing up for others and living a life that's bigger than just yours. Yeah. And so when you think about like this journey of recovery, this journey to becoming a healthy man, what a beautiful journey it is, right?

1:02:56You think about like, you know, porn abuse teaches us and trains us to objectify and disrespect women. I think healthy masculinity is about humanizing women. Women are beautiful and amazing. Yeah, and we came from a woman. I wonder what the effects are. See if you can find something about this. What are the effects of pornography on young men's relationship with their mothers, of watching pornography? You know what I'm saying? Because it's like I do notice when I'm healthy and I'm taking care of myself, I'm able to view the women in my life differently, right? And I'm able to view them how they should be viewed.

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1:06:01You know, I think a lot of guys are in hiding. I think a lot of us are afraid to say that we know that we're in a war and everybody's going and fighting behind closed doors. And that's kind of crazy. When you think about that, that's kind of scary. It's scary. Scary. Right? Scary. And how can, is there a way to win it that way? I don't know. Well, you know, I could tell you from the life I live today, I mean, I don't feel like I'm in a war, you know? I have a life that's kind of rooted in love. Bro, you've changed so much since I met you, man. Yeah, I have. You give me hope for the life I could live, man.

1:06:38That's right. And, you know. You really do. I'm glad. You do. And you were always everybody's favorite. You said earlier that people cared about you or like there was something, there was always somebody like your family's always, you were like the guy in the meetings, dude. It was like, cause we went to meetings that had like some fancy people in them. Real fancy. Some tall people too. Oh yeah. Tall guys, all types of people. One tall guy anyway. Yeah. A couple of real grade A perverts, right? The creme de la creme, right? That's right. But bro, and it was, but bro, we got in those rooms and we, here's the thing.

1:07:11We laughed in there. We were, people were honest. We laughed. Uh, but yeah, you were always like, dude, I wish I could be friends with Steve. That's sweet. It was the truth. Thank you. And you, you just made it. It's so important to laugh in recovery. Oh dude, people, you got to realize this shit. It is people laugh so much. It's not just this dour thing. No, no, because this stuff is dark. It's heavy and laughing at each other. I think laughter is so good for the soul, man. You read the news right now. It's so heavy. You listen to the news. It's so heavy. Finding a place to be lighthearted, to have fun and to laugh is so healing.

1:07:57Oh, yeah, man. You know how many guys I struggle with that I talk to and work with that are struggling? And if I can get them on the phone, I can get them to laugh. Amen. man. Oh, dude. Oh yeah. It just takes it from a nine out of a 10 to a six out of a 10, you know? Yes. And it's just so important to let the air out of the balloon with laughter. What are the things, how do, how do, how do guys not realize, um, okay, here, uh, Trevin found something right here. I'm going to interject real quick here to go back. Cause I'd never thought about that before. Does it affect the way I look at my, my sister, my mother, women in my life and world.

1:08:35It could be your teacher, anyone, if you're consuming pornography, how porn-shaped beliefs affect views of mothers. This article explains that frequent exposure to pornography reinforces rigid gender norms and the objectification of women, where women are seen primarily as sexual objects rather than full, complex people. Yeah. As these attitudes become part of a teenage boy's belief system, he may begin to see women, including his mother, through a more dehumanized, stereotyped lens, weakening genuine mutual respect. And I'll tell you, the challenge today with what you just read is so many men today started watching porn when they're 10, 11, 12 years old, right?

1:09:21That was like the part of a generation where the iPhone just came out. And so they had access to porn at this very early stage of their life. and so by the time you get to work with them in treatment or therapy and you hear about like their childhood, they've had pretty normal childhood. Normal, right? Not a lot of trauma as we would understand trauma. The trauma is the porn that they started watching at 10 years old and it's just kind of intense porn. You know how many guys you hear like 10, 11, 12 years old watching rape porn? I mean, how painful is that when you think about that? Well, yeah, you have to know.

1:09:56Oh, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable and you have to know that these companies, and I'm not setting myself apart from anybody. Like I've been down these roads, you know?

1:10:08But you have to know that these companies, this is strategy by them. This is, I believe, I don't think that the people that work in porn or sex work or anything like that, I don't have any ill thoughts or any of that towards anybody like that that's involved in it. I just think as a man in mass that they don't have the best, these, these companies don't have the best interest for us. Right. Like the, a lot of the pornography now it's like, um, mother, son, grandmother, uh, son, you know, you can't unsee that. Right. Right. And it's also makes you think it's like, well, these are the most important relationships in the world.

1:10:48Boss secretary, or just like whatever it is, sisters. It's like they're taking the most valuable relationships that have been given to us by our creator and by the world and even by science, and they're trying to manipulate those that they don't have any value to us other than some sexual perversion. And if you're 12, 13, 14 years old consuming this stuff, how are you supposed to process that? Yeah. And just even seeing the words while you're looking at pornography, you see the word mother, son, father. It's all like, it's all a strategy. The devil is at work. Um, I believe that, you know, it's the dark arts and, um, I'm not saying that I don't wade through the waters of them and, you know, but that's one thing that you said.

1:11:37It's like, we continue to fight. We don't give up, you know, and you learn so much along the way. Yeah. Yeah. Before we keep moving on, I want to ask you too, Steve, what are there things that could be happening that mothers or fathers might not see that how their use of pornography or like checking out like that, sexually checking out of like their environment, you know, their use of watching pornography could be affecting things with their interactions with their children or their home life. Yeah, totally. You know, it's so interesting as a - Because sometimes you don't correlate that. No, you don't.

1:12:13You know what I'm saying? You just think, man, my marriage isn't working, but separately I'm watching porn. That's right. And so when you think about the idea of healthy masculinity, being in recovery, and being a father, right? And so I'm a new father right now. And, you know, my son's young. He's about a year right now. But just the responsibility I have in modeling to him how you treat a woman. Really important, right? The kindness that I show his wife, getting to see affection, touch, all that stuff is really important. I know your story from your childhood. You know my story from my childhood that wasn't necessarily modeled to us.

1:12:55And so if you're watching pornography, right? And as a result of that, it's distorting your view of women can be challenging, right? You think maybe they don't know. Trust me, they know. They may not know you're watching porn, but that energy you have that you can't hide that. Yeah, it's a little bit of shame. It's a little bit of I'm keeping something secret. That's right. It's a little bit of something's wrong. And it's a little bit of I'm scared somebody's gonna figure this out and I don't even know what it is. Well, you know what happens too also, guys that abuse porn, right? They're just not present for their lives.

1:13:30Yeah. They're not showing up for their kids, right? They're on their phones. They're consumed in fantasy. They're not present. They're missing life. Yeah. You're missing life. And so when you guys get into recovery, dude, you see this all the time. They start coaching flag football teams and loving it. They're able to show up in their lives and be present. They're better fathers. They're better husbands. They're emotionally regulated. Yeah, they're not involved. It's almost like porn is like your wiener playing video games. That's interesting. It's not real. If you walked into a room every day and your wiener was playing a video game, at some point you'd be like, turn it off and get the fuck up and go outside.

1:14:12You know what I'm saying? Like you would tell – you'd want your – Depends on what video game. That's a good point. If it's Castlevania or something, yeah. But I'm just saying like – anyway, I don't know what I'm saying. That's one thing I noticed in meetings that I've been in when people share and people start to get better, they start to say, man, like today I had the desire to spend time with my kids, to engage, to go outside and do this with my daughter, to like flirt with my wife in the kitchen. Like I walk in the house and there's a look on my face that I'm excited to see this person that loves me.

1:14:47Just little things like that, that I've heard guys share in meetings that are like, that just let me know that recovery is real, you know? And the joy of living. yeah what have you seen recovery look like for people like what are some testimonials that you've experienced in the rooms yeah um and even through valor yeah and so uh lots of good stuff uh let me think of a few good ones that might be well i'll share a story one of our first clients um 62 year old man been uh abusing porn for about 40 years and long time you know and uh by the time he got Dr. Valor, he was six years sober in Alcoholics Anonymous, but he was in so much pain.

1:15:31He had not been divorced for 10 years, had not had sex in 10 years, and was so full of shame. And when I first met with him, you know, I would try to like get some goals. Like, what do you want to try to accomplish here? And he said, I want to stop watching porn. I said, awesome. We're going to help you do that. What else? Tell me when I play. And he just couldn't get there. Just make something up. Tell me a long-term goal. If you had like a genie in a bottle, you had a wish, give me something. I'll never forget what he said. He said, you know something, Steve? For as long as I can remember now, on Sundays, I go grocery shopping by myself for the week.

1:16:11And I see families shopping and couples shopping and it's so lonely. He goes, one day I'd like to go shopping with a girl I'm dating I said okay you know about eight months later that guy sent me a shot of him and his girlfriend grocery shopping and it broke me and I remember telling my wife this story and just crying and she's like what's coming up for you and she can't really understand because two things. I know that pain of loneliness and I know how good it feels to be free of it. Wow. Great story. Love that story on what's on offer here. That's what's on offer here, huh? Yeah. The dojoies of living, finding love.

1:17:07Another great story. You hear this with consistency. I get a phone call with a guy that's maybe sober six, nine months. This one guy in particular, and he says, Steve, you know, last night I was on the couch staring at my wife and it's like I'm seeing her for the first time and I can't believe how pretty she is wow like to me hearing that brings me so much joy when you kind of that fog lifts that porn induced shame-based fog lifts and you can actually see life and color versus black and white. What a gift, you know? Yeah, man. And then you see guys that get time. This is what drives me wild. They get time.

1:17:55They get six months, nine months, a year away from pornography and wild stuff starts happening. They go back to grad school. They launch a new business. They get a big raise. Like what the hell's I got to do with you not watching porn. Yeah. The answer's everything. Because what's happening now is you're transcending the shame that's keeping your life small. You always hear like a guy all of a sudden, guy lacks confidence in himself. He's so full of shame, lives a double life. He walks into a restaurant, can never actually make eye contact with that woman at the bar. He maybe looks over, puts his head down and walks to his table.

1:18:33He's now nine months sober, right? He makes eye contact, walks over and introduces himself. Yeah. And they're now engaged. Let's go. These are the stories of recovery. Didn't mention anything about not watching porn. Not watching porn is just the point of entry. Learning how to live a life that you don't need to escape from is what recovery is all about. Recovery is about learning how to experience the joys of love and connection. so one simple question i tell guys all the time it's real simple it's real simple is your porn use bringing you closer to or further away from the man you want to be and if you don't like the answer to that question what do you want to do about it yeah

1:19:28yes it's uh i've been in a lot of the meetings where i've seen guys share about stuff and you've seen a guy have a new experience, you know? It's the best. When does a lot of this start? Is there a time that you notice how and when a lot of this starts for a lot of guys, Steve? Have you been able to put together any theories about that? Younger and younger. You know, because you've talked a lot about Valor on your podcast, we have seen a lot of younger men in their 20s. When I first started Valor, I thought I would work with guys like me, older professional men that are dealing with a porn addiction, sexual compulsivity, and need to get help.

1:20:06And we've worked with a fair amount of that. But because of your fan base, there are a lot of single men in their 20s. And challenging dynamic because they're not married, they're not in a relationship, there's no external consequences, and they've been doing this for like 10, 15 years. Right. And so it's like, you know, they've been in full-blown addiction for over a decade, and they're 22 years old. They don't even realize it. They don't even realize it. That's the craziest part. Wild. Wild. It's just like a regular habit. It's like taking them melatonin. A hundred percent. It's just part of their life.

1:20:45Yeah. It has rewired and conditioned their brain, and they're full of so much shame, and they lack such confidence in themselves. so breaking them free of porn it's interesting how do you motivate and inspire a guy like that to stay on this journey how do you create motivation in their life to continue on this path even though their path can be choppy at times yes how do you get that guy to continue to show up and not be in shame if he watches a little bit of porn right that guy can be getting better watching 80 to 90 percent less porn over any given month great job keep coming back if you return to the behavior and you relapse or return to use own it quickly talk about it learn from it and keep growing yeah and so motivating younger men is been a little different and to create inspiration because here's the truth they're so isolated and so disconnected they have significantly less friends than decades before.

1:21:50Everything is kind of online. Everything is virtual. And so the loneliness is profound. Well, as part of existence, it's not like, I think some people, you don't even notice that you're lonely anymore. That's one of the wildest things. You'll spend all day by yourself, but you won't really notice that you're lonely because you have some interactions you see people you see them so there's all this hijacking of things that are real that would normally make you feel like you have are not alone you see people you hear voices you know i mean you're you know you can even engage i'm hearing voices is perhaps it's like you can see people on your phone or on your computer you can you can do facetime like So there's all these like, like these secondary little pieces, but the connection, the true, the reality.

1:22:45And remote work certainly doesn't help. I mean, there are guys that just don't leave their home. Well, yeah. It's like you could basically go to work online. You could get off work, get some, order some food online. Then you could look at pornography or something, go to bed and that's your day and that's your existence. and you're just sort of this thing, but there's so much, we're supposed to be so much more than that. I think some of it has become almost just this habit that we don't even know that we're in. Yeah. I could see that. And I mean, yeah. And I'm not preaching at anybody. I think it's just like, I don't know, just the, like the awareness that you could be in something and not realize it is something kind of wild, you know?

1:23:27Yeah. I think that's, that's, that's absolutely true. and what are some I want to ask you outside of Valor because you run Valor Recovery that's your program and thank you so much I know there was a lot of guys who kind of came in through the podcast who you were trying to help and offer recovery to so thank you so much for having conversations with those guys over the years and by the way so many of those guys are killing it right now yes they are and I'm going to say this to you because it needs to be heard there are so many men that because of your vulnerability on this podcast talking about your challenges around that gave them the courage to reach out and ask for help so your vulnerability is a gift to this world well thank you i appreciate that yeah uh yeah sometimes it's scary to be vulnerable i don't know it's not scary it's like i don't know i don't know any other way to live really you know I don't think I know any other way to live I don't know sometimes I'm thinking I share too much probably but well I can tell you as it relates to this topic I can't tell you how many conversations we've had in the thousands now where the conversation starts Theo said it was okay to talk about this I've shared those stories with you over the years yeah I know you have I appreciate it That's important, man.

1:25:00Yeah, man. That's important stuff. What a gift. Yeah, it's, I, uh, yeah, I mean, it makes, it's, it's tough to know that a lot of people are hurting, you know? It's tough to know that I, that we've all hurt, you know? It's tough to know that most of the people that I love the most have, have, have hurt a lot of us, you know, me included. Um, and we didn't just end up, you know? So, yeah, I'm just glad. I've met a lot of good guys through recovery, you know. There wouldn't be a program, you know, if you didn't do it. That's right. And the great thing about recovery is you can live a life that's superior to the life you were living.

1:25:42Yeah, that's the truth. That's the beauty of it. And so not easy sometimes to get there, but if you stay the course, you don't give up, you keep leaning into this you're going to build a life that brings you joy where you don't need to engage in behaviors to numb the pain that you're in that's a process yeah what what are some of the triggers that you see uh that you notice is that okay to ask yeah i can know there's just patterns right so many men struggle with profound loneliness and boredom they're disconnected they're alone. And so when you look at these urges, right, there's tends to be a predictability to when you're vulnerable to them, right?

1:26:27So late at night, scrolling on your phone, dude, leave the phone. Don't bring the phone to the bedroom. Yeah, shut it down. Simple fix. Well, Steve, I work all week long, Friday nights, I'm by myself. And there's just this period of time right now of unstructured time where I'm really vulnerable. Okay, let's make a plan around on that. Why don't you book dinner? Why don't you bookend the evening with a friend of yours so you're not alone right now? Make a dinner date with a friend right now. Get out of the house. And so there's just these patterns that men experience as it relates to stress, boredom, and loneliness.

1:27:02And so when you pull up and kind of look at this stuff and learn from this stuff, men don't plan to fail, they fail to plan. And so working with people that understand this can go a long way to putting you on the path to being successful. Amen, man. Yeah. The other thing that's really tricky today is social. You're going for a walk with a friend. Just go for a walk. Dude. Dude, my best time. Maybe we'll go for a walk after this, me and you. Yeah. I'll go for a walk with you. Yeah, sure. You got a little time? No, I'll make time. I'd love it, dude. Yeah, bro. Thank you, bro. Dude, there's nothing better than going for a walk with one of your friends.

1:27:38It might seem like, and even if y 'all are straight, y 'all can do it. if you're not straight you could do it but some of that stuff got hijacked by the gay community i think like just going for a walk with your buddy i'm not saying it did yeah but it got slightly hijacked just a hint hey we got to take our we got to take our pedestrian rights back um but anyway what were we saying we're doing about triggers oh yeah so that's one for me i noticed things that would lead me to do masturbation or be touching my body sometimes like that looking at pornography stress right i'm up later than i need to be a lot of times I'll have a deal with myself.

1:28:11I have a plan to go to bed. Shit will happen. Shit will happen with work. Next thing I'm up 45 minutes later, I can't handle it, right? So now it's like I got to go to sleep. I'll think that masturbation will help me go to sleep, right? What else? Social media. Yeah, social media just – I know that that keeps me up late, so I do a pretty good job of that. Like I know now when I open up, there's not anything super good in there, you know? I'll maybe say, all right, I'm going to go for 30 seconds. You find one thing that's kind of engaging, and I'm shutting it down. I'm starting to realize that what a Pandora's box it is.

1:28:47It really is. And the science will support that, like these dopamine spikes from this endless scrolling on social media. And you look at the sexual content on social media. It may not be full porn, but it can be pretty explicit. And so it's a real problem because it's this funnel. and oftentimes guys in early recovery get tripped up because they're on instagram right now there's this kind of image which is a link to an only fans account and all of a sudden they're back in the dance yeah and so that's really important that's kind of you know endless scrolling endless seeking novelty can be really challenging because in the alternative the alternative is though you have to think about what that is and you have to plan for that in your head i noticed for myself right So if I'm not going to be scrolling, I might just be laying there in my bed.

1:29:38And what's wrong with that? There's nothing wrong with it. But at first it can feel a bit uncomfortable. Oh, I should be doing something. Those are the feelings I go through. I should be doing something.

1:29:49You're like, well, what would that be? So at first it's a little tough. Now, sometimes my mind will start to just imagine or think of things, which is kind of nice. If it's not negative stuff, it's like my mind. It's like daydreaming or something. It used to be something people did a lot. daydreaming. But so that can happen or I can read or I can just go to sleep. But there is a little bit of like an uncomfortable moment sometimes where it's like, ah, I should be doing something, but I don't, I'm not really playing. I don't really mean I should be doing something. I mean, I'm usually mean I should just be looking at something on my phone.

1:30:20Can you tolerate the boredom in that moment? Or do you need to go get a quick fix? If I do, I'm doing meditation pretty regularly now. So I'm having a little bit more tolerate, more toleration with it it's important yeah a little more toleration with it like the the short form videos these kind of quick fixes on all these social media is such a distraction yeah right and so getting time away from your phone oh yeah that's key long form reading hobbies creativity working on projects i think are so healthy for you yeah i think yeah doing things building a little birdhouse doing something like that getting excited about leap year just doing regular shit.

1:31:01When is leap year? You know, huh? When is next leap year? We'll never know, bro. Because for, you know, it is gone. That's right. That's how it is, bro. I missed a lot of leap years over the years. Who hasn't, twin? Let's look at some of those stats. What did you have, Trevin? I want to get in a little bit of information here. I want to say this just so people, to give a little bit more context to pornography overall. Pornhub was the fifth most visited website in the world by December 2020. Just if people don't think that we are at war, right? Some people think like, oh, America, we're safe. We're not, we're, we're at war.

1:31:38Pornhub had about 170 million visits per day and 62 billion visits per year. And that was 2020. The amount of content uploaded to Pornhub in a single year would take about 169 years to watch if you played the videos back to back.

1:31:56And this was some information because sometimes you're watching stuff on there where the people in it have not consented to it being put online or that it was even recorded. And sometimes that it's not – that they haven't consented even to the sex in the video. The Broward County, Florida case, this was a case. A 15-year-old girl missing for a year was found only after a Pornhub user recognized her and tipped off her mother. police eventually found her in 58 monetized videos on the site so just to know how porn hub is okay with operating uh lila micklewaite who came on here and she has done a great job with exposing the porn industry um for the negative aspects of it uh the london sunday times investigation reporters were able to find dozens of illegal videos on the site within minutes including videos of children as young as three that were on Pornhub.

1:32:57So just to let you know, like the kind of stuff that can be happening on there. Oh, nice. So Lila tested that. Oh, at the time, Lila tested the upload flow to just see how easy it was to just put something up. All it took to upload a video was an email address. There was no ID or age verification, no consent verification required for people in the videos. Anyone with a smartphone could upload a video in under 10 minutes from anywhere in the world. So anyway, it just gives a little more context to what we're even watching. Because sometimes you're looking at something and you don't even really know what it is.

1:33:33Or where it came from. Or where it came from, right? And if you can add some context to it, it makes it a little bit different. You know, so many of those people have been either physically or sexually abused in their childhood. right have been trafficked this is not sometimes this is non-consent and uh there's just a gross element to a lot of it there is and you get you kind of get tricked in a little i think in a way you don't maybe realize it i don't know especially if you're kind of susceptible um oh yeah this right here i remember this visa and mastercard suspend payments for ad purchases on porn hub and mind geek amid controversy um visa and mastercard said thursday card payments for Advertising on Pornhub and its parent company MindGeek would be suspended after a lawsuit stoke controversy whether the payment giants could be facilitating child pornography.

1:34:26Visa condemns sex trafficking, sexual exploitation, and child sexual abuse. It is illegal and Visa does not permit the use of our network for illegal activity because Visa was being accepted on these websites. So it's kind of crazy. It's like, okay, so you're saying that if this is happening on these websites, then you're okay with your... Kind of complicit. Right. You're kind of complicit. Give me an update on that if you can. And who owns MindGeek Change to A-L-O? I remember that A-Y-L-O. Who owns that company? Ethical Capital Partners. Of course they do. Of course they do. Unbelievable. Parent Organization is Ethical Capital Partners.

1:35:07Key ECP leadership is Fadi Mansour, a managing partner, Rocco Miliambro, and Solomon Friedman. Through its parent company, ECP owns some of those highly trafficked digital networks in the adult entertainment industry, including Pornhub, RedTube, YouPorn, Brazzers, and Min.com. Find photos of those guys if you can, just so we can put the faces with just who they are. And that's all according to what site? Wikipedia. Okay, that's all Google and Wikipedia. So, yeah, give me pictures of those three guys. Let's put them up just so people know who feels like it's okay, you know? And I do want to say most recently I saw there was a story I saw where one of the financial companies failed to stop a payment for, was it OnlyFans?

1:35:59It was something that was MasterCard Visa failed to stop payments on OnlyFans for child sex abuse content says a whistleblower. Yeah. Let me see. MasterCard and Visa failed to stop their payment networks from laundering proceeds from child sex abuse material and sex trafficking on the popular website OnlyFans, according to allegations in a previously undisclosed whistleblower complaint filled with the U.S. Treasury's Financial Crimes Unit. The complaint was filed in January 2023. The complaint said the whistleblower and other anti-trafficking experts, including U.S. federal agents, alerted Visa and MasterCard to unlawful content on OnlyFans in a series of calls in 2021 and 2022.

1:36:39The federal agents corroborated the presence of child sexual abuse material on OnlyFans. The complaint said it also drew heavily on a 2022 study by an anti-trafficking group that said it had found a high volume of OnlyFans accounts with common indicators of child sexual abuse material or sex trafficking. The whistleblower said he helped with the study, which was shared with the card companies. In the interview, the whistleblower said the agencies never contacted him to discuss his complaint. The card companies had the power to turn off the switch to stop illicit material from being monetized. so there's just you know it goes to the place i guess there's like a there's a business element to it a visa spokesperson said financial institutions and merchants that don't comply with visa's robust compliance requirements will be terminated from its network the company uses best-in-class controls to deter detect and remediate illegal activity if there's anything else i should in there let me know um since the whistleblower complaint was filed rooters uncovered more allegations of child sexual abuse and sex trafficking on OnlyFans, a porn-driven site that generates money through subscriptions and pay-per-view content.

1:37:47Huh. I mean, those companies are also so big, I bet it's so hard to police everything. Sure. And that was just a complaint, Trevin? That's right, not a ruling. But it was officially filed, it's on the record. Okay, got it. Okay, thank you so much. Tell me a little bit about Valor Recovery. And this episode was not intended at all to be an ad for your company or anything like that. But, you know, this is just such a thing. And you're the guy that I know and we've been friends for so long. But tell me about Valor and thank you for starting it. Yeah, thank you. Valor Recovery is a company I founded many years ago now that helps men that are struggling with pornography abuse and sexual compulsivity.

1:38:31It's a virtual program. You know, what we have found over the years is so many men struggle getting help for this, finding the right type of help. Using community-based resources are challenging because of shame and stigma. Like, what do you mean by that? Like, going to a meeting locally? Going to a meeting locally, going to a program locally. People are just, they're so concerned given the nature of this. And they don't take advantage of those resources. So creating a virtual program that can be accessible with the click of a button is amazing. And offering something that's more discreet just helps guys feel more comfortable getting help.

1:39:14And so virtual program, it's a coaching program. And the thing that's really unique about that, what we have found is so many men benefit from coaching on this topic. Different than therapy. Therapy is very valuable as well. but coaching is around accountability, setting goals, learning new skills, and practicing those skills so you think and feel differently about yourself over time. Got it. Yeah, you have to put something on the other side of the scale. That's one thing I've learned in recovery. I'm not saying I do it all the time, but you can't just – you have to put something on the other side of the scale that has valuable weight to it.

1:39:56I think that's right. And so, you know, the program is unique. One of the unique aspects around it, everyone that works at Valor Recovery is in long-term sexual recovery. So these are men that have 10 years, 20 years, in several cases, 30 years of sexual sobriety. Why is that important? It's just the shared life experience puts us in a very unique position to help people, to understand people, because we've been there. We are you. So collectively, this team has helped thousands of people over their lifetimes deal with these challenges. So that's really important. It's a program that really is set up with small intimate groups so that men learn to be part of a community.

1:40:39Men learn how to connect with each other. The opposite of addiction is often not recovery. It's often said to be connection. And so we're a program that offers small group settings, process groups, there's curriculum around how to deal with urges and triggers, identify root causes that are driving compulsions, curriculum around healthy intimacy, healthy sexuality, and healthy masculinity. Amen. And so we've had a lot of men come to this program and get better. It's something we take a lot of pride in. Now, it's not easy work. I can promise you that. It's not easy work, but we take a lot of pride in helping men become the men God intended them to be.

1:41:21And whatever that word God means to higher self, whatever that is, we help men, put them in alignment with their higher self so they can go on and do good things in their lives. Are there guys or women out there who may not have a problem specifically with porn, but is there other things they could be having a problem with? Yeah. I think what you're asking me is if the, can people be suffering from other behaviors other than pornography? That could be having the same outcome for them. That's correct. Yeah, that's what I'm asking you. Is it relationship compulsivity, infidelity in relationships, prostitution?

1:41:58I mean, there's just a host of behaviors that can manifest itself that are just really unhealthy for people. And so men or women doesn't necessarily have to be pornography. And so the answer is yes. And there are just a lot of great resources out there for both men and women to deal with these issues, whether it's working with a therapist that may be trained in sexual compulsivity or sex addiction. There are great 12-step programs out there, different fellowships for men and women, Sex Addicts Anonymous, Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, Sexaholics Anonymous, that men and women that are community-based, 12-step-based programs that could be really valuable.

1:42:43Adult children of alcoholics. Sorry to interrupt you. I just want to forget. There's a lot of important—yeah, people don't realize that there's things out there that it's like, you might be like, well, I'm not this. I don't have this, but maybe my parent did. And you lived in the shadows of it, or you lived as a recipient of the byproducts of it. Um, there's recovery stuff for that. And we're not saying everybody needs recovery, but we're saying that this, some of this stuff is a big issue that's facing people and we both struggle with it. So shit, other people might. And that's right. And I think the one thing you can listen to, this is not a life sentence, not a death sentence, man.

1:43:14You can get better for sure. You can absolutely get better and you can live that life that you've dreamed of. It's going to take work, but there are great people out there to help you. And so if you're struggling, I mean, have the courage to reach out and get some help. Yeah. And we'll put links to like Valor. We'll put links to sex and love addiction, intimacy disorder, anonymous. We'll put a link to some of those things in this so people can check it out. There's like some online like Zoom sex addiction meetings that you can go to. Can I share that publicly? Yeah, there's those meetings you can go to.

1:43:49You can just sit with your camera off and just listen and see what it's like, see how people are sharing and see what's going on. Yeah, I just want to know that that stuff's out there. I think sometimes people don't even know that it's out there. I didn't know it existed until you get into certain places and you're like, I was realizing I was just having such a tough time in relationships and a relationship with myself. it was like it was so hard for me to get to know myself without like I always felt like I had to just prove who I was even to me like almost every day it was like yeah it was like if I didn't I had to do something to show you who I was I couldn't just be right I've had like that love what's it called love attraction love avoidance love avoiding but what is it when you it's like come here go away or whatever that thing not sure it's like come here go away i would have whatever that shit was bro sounds awful yeah oh but it was it was a lot of my relationships yeah it was like hey i need you over here i want to be with you but then the second somebody got close i was like that's right and if a lot of guys there's sexual anorexia what is that i mean just a complete avoidance of all sex Oh, I thought you're starving, so you have sex or whatever.

1:45:11A good hamburger? No, no. That's how that American pie scene came to be. Sexual anorexia is a term coined in 1975 by psychologist Nathan Hare to describe a fear or deep aversion to sexual activity. It is considered a loss of appetite for sexual conduct and may result in a fear of intimacy or an aversion to any type of sexual interaction. And the compulsive non-sex is an addiction of it itself, right? And so you just think about like, you know, what we are striving for, right, is a version of healthy sexuality that works for you. Yeah. So many guys get into recovery and then that's it. I've stopped these behaviors.

1:45:56And they can go for a while, but they're kind of unhappy and miserable. so unless you kind of lean in and challenge yourself to date companionship connection healthy sex that's what recovery is about yeah that's how you put these behaviors in the rear view mirror and never look back you have to replace it with something that brings you more joy and purpose amen yeah and a lot of times that will happen because you're uh the way the program set up. It's like you interact with more people. You say yes to more things. It's like, you know, so it's like, and it's easier to say yes when you're not full of shame.

1:46:35Oh, for sure. When you're feeling better about yourself, cause you're not putting that junk in your system with consistency. You know, it just gives you, uh, your ability to show up as the best version of yourself kind of happens over time. Yeah. Yeah. It's a learning process, man. Yeah. And the thing is the program is always there. So if you, if, if something happens or something, you know, I'm saying if you have a setback or whatever's going on, it's always there. It's there. It's like unconditional. That's pretty cool. It is great. That's like that. Oh, here's a summary of how Shorys come here, go away the dynamics of fearful attachment.

1:47:13I think this is what I had. Past tense. Fearful attachment. Yeah. I don't think I have this anymore. Nice. which is it's kind of crazy it's like now i feel like i used to never think i would dude it's so funny when i was a kid this is true and when i was even a teen and young adult i didn't understand how people could be married it didn't even make sense to me at a level of like human affection like i don't even understand i remember i'd go watch people's families eat dinner and should i go sit and like watch peep and tommen or whatever right because it was it was like a full i didn't even understand it well what was modeled to you in your child at home now you understand it nothing there it is i mean nothing in fact the opposite so like opposite nothing yes less than nothing less than nothing dude some weird integer but dudes i can't but and at the time i didn't even know what i was i didn't even know what i was doing but i was just so like it was like it was like watching somebody find something i don't know see something foreign and then uh and then slowly over time it made sense to me and then there was like times where i was like i remember the first time that i thought i wanted to have a family bro it blew my mind i'd never felt that in my life.

1:48:35You know? I cannot wait till you get married and have a kid. Yeah, we got to get it out there, boy. I cannot wait. You're going to just, A, you're going to be, you have a heart as big as any person I know. Thanks, bro. And the more that you get comfortable showing that side of you to a woman and build a life right now with that person, my goodness, it's going to be incredible to be part of. Yeah, we're going to have to get a camper, dude, right after you hit the road. That's it. Yeah, take that love on the road, brother. But no, I feel you, man. Thank you, bro. Yeah. Like, yeah, my first instinct is kind of joke sometimes when things get serious or something.

1:49:12And I used to be that way all the time. Now I'm not that way. You know, there's times where I can be in some of those spaces. But, dude, I remember the first time I thought, man, I would like that. Yeah. It blew my mind. But it's all because of just things I've learned in meetings over time, you know, things that there's a different way, right? Yeah, what would you say, somebody out there who's thinking, I think this is me, right? We're talking about porn addiction or some of this intimacy stuff. Yeah, what can they do to start getting some help? Yeah, there are lots of great resources out there.

1:49:49And we'll put Valor too. Valor Recovery is a great resource out there. Happy to talk to anybody listening here to see if there's a way we can help you. Happy to refer you to other programs as well if you need a higher level of care, right? There are great therapists out there. There's great 12-step communities out there. I think anybody that's listening to this, the one thing I hope is that you have the courage to reach out and ask for help. Amen, bro. That's it. Dude, and I want to say this. I want to say thank you. I have received messages from so many guys that said, I called and I talked to Steve.

1:50:27A lot of places, that's not the thing. No, I promise you. Early on, I promise you, I made a promise to you that I was gonna handle your, people that call me a podcast myself personally. Yeah. And I did. I appreciate that. I did. It was important. And I, you know, it was rewarding. I learned so much about how these men are hurting and struggling. And I also learned so much on how important your voice is in these men's lives. And so keep doing what you're doing, brother. well thanks man yeah yeah we're just learning as we go you know and we don't have to do it alone so i haven't had to do it alone with this show this show helped me not be alone this show gave me something to do like you know there were times i probably would have been using or doing things that i you know like there's times it hasn't saved me from that but there's been so many times where it has you know where it gave me like some sense of like value or uh purpose yeah even your voice matters, man.

1:51:31And sometimes not even my voice, just listening, just being somebody like I learned that at some time, sometimes I still make mistakes on it, but let me just listen so other people can listen. Yeah. Beautiful. You know? And I don't mean that in any egotistical way. I just feel like it's just been like, yeah, I think when I was little, I just wanted to have a voice. Like I just, like I wanted like, yeah, I was just, I think when I was really young, I was in so much pain and just nobody could hear me you know and i didn't even know what was wrong i just knew that it hurt and then yeah you get to like uh and that's all i wanted and god helped me have that you know and so it's been like it's not by accident you're here yeah we all have this belief like some reason like going it should have looked differently it should be different than it than it was.

1:52:27And the truth is it all happened exactly the way it had to happen to be here right now. Right. I look back at my history and be like, oh my God, like that should have looked all the money that I wasted on drugs or crazy behaviors. Well, if I had$1 more, maybe I would have bought that line of Coke that had fentanyl. If I had$1 more, perhaps I don't meet my wife, have my son or start Valor Recovery. So who am I to go back and say that should have looked differently? Everything I went through, I had to go through to be here right now. The only way to put purpose to your pain is to have lived through that pain.

1:53:08I think that's what you just shared. Thanks, man. Yeah, amen. I'm glad you did, bro. I'm glad you stayed the course. Yeah, me too. Yeah? I really am, man. I super am. Mike Tyson said that same thing, man, when I talked to him. he just said man i wouldn't trade any of it as painful as parts of it were as disgraceful as parts of it were you know i had to go through all of it to be the man i am today yeah it's kind of i mean it's yeah i mean it's unbelievable really it's kind of crazy yes it's kind of crazy you had to go through everything you i know a lot about your child i know a lot about your life right it it prepared you for this moment.

1:53:50So it's crazy to go back and think, oh, it should have looked differently. That's a good point, huh? Wow, I think sometimes it's tough to, yeah, you're so right. And sometimes I still will think that. I don't know if I still will think that, but I still will suffer some of like, there's still like some old pain that flares up. Me too, me too. And people sometimes will be like, you have to get over, you have to get rid of that. And it's like, you can, but sometimes it's still a real thing. It's like, just because you forgive and you move on doesn't mean that there's sometimes still not some shit that hurts.

1:54:23That's right. And both things can be true. You could be living a good life and still be hurting at times from your past. Yeah. It's not either or, it's yes and. Yeah, I agree with you. There's this idea in recovery that, you know, everything is rainbows and unicorns. Yeah. That's not life. That's not life. Yeah. Right? Part of life is discomfort. comfort part of life is being uncomfortable yeah and i wish they kind of would have told us that would you have joined if that was the cell that's a good point though if you if they would have told it's such a here's the dude you're not really going to feel that much better about yourself but come on in try this i'm not sure that's a good selling point yeah dude they just show you your future and it's just you like you're just crying behind a win dixie in your truck gee and you got to do a better way of selling me on this recovery thing than that.

1:55:11Dude, it's so true, bro. We had some calls, man. These are calls. We have a hotline here on 985-664-9503. That's a hotline. We're coming up on 10 years, I think we've had this podcast. When did this podcast start? December. Of 2016? Yeah. Wow. Incredible. That's crazy, man. Incredible. And your place in LA? Yeah. Incredible. In my kitchen over there in Westwood. We put those curtains up. Shout out to Matt. ex-girlfriend Megan who would put up with me and when I would, you know, it'd be like our one night of the week to spend together and I would, you know, I would spend it doing this. Yeah. And then like get in a bed, you know, just, you know, she was such a nice person.

1:55:53I know she's the best. Yeah. She's the best. Um, let's play a couple of calls that have come in on the hotline. And, uh, this may sound weird because it's like we're like one of those call-in shows where we're like experts we're not experts we don't know anything we're just two guys who are surviving and doing our best steve's doing better than me um but let's play some of those calls if we can please steve if you'll sit here sure thanks man hey theo this is siege from new mexico and i just want to tell you man you've been a great help And I'm not gonna lie, I'm kind of drunk right now It's like 12, you know, it's afternoon, it's about 1.10 or whatever But I just want to seek your advice on some shit You know, I've been addicted to porn and masturbation my entire life And that led me to being addicted to alcohol And a way to cope maybe, I don't know But, you know, I was texting these Filipino ladies on some bullshit app.

1:57:03And it turned into me sending them money. And they sent me nudes. And then it turns out it was all scam. Obviously, I should have known that. And I did know it before I even went into it. But I don't even know if I'm addicted. I've been on a seven-month bender. I think I've only missed four days of drinking alcohol within the last seven months. Hey, Siege, thanks for the call, man. And, yeah, I just appreciate you sharing so honestly. Steve, what do you think is, like, can addictions jump from one to the next? What have you noticed about that? That's kind of the thing that I'm taking away from just listening to this.

1:57:37And thank you, Siege, bro. And just thanks for being honest. And I think I'm going to let Steve kind of share some of his insights here. You see that with frequency, just the relationship between alcohol and drugs and compulsive porn use. And so making recovery difficult. You know, that was the case for me, but I had a history of porn abuse, but also challenges with cocaine and alcohol. And hard, really hard. Yeah, because it'll be, one can cause the other. Chicken or the egg. Yeah. Chicken or the egg. And how many guys kind of, because they're hungover, turn to porn to try to feel better? How many guys kind of make a bad decision, like he did, reaching out, giving money to this scam, because he's under the influence of alcohol or drugs?

1:58:20It's just really hard. and one of the things he highlighted, these scams, how often we hear guys kind of being blackmailed because they got caught up reaching out to people. There's photos. There's information. It's dark stuff. It's really dark stuff. So it sounds like this person can really benefit from getting help. And here's the truth. Sometimes it's hard to address all this at once. Right. And so maybe you pick one and maybe you start with alcohol and say, okay, I'm having some issues with alcohol. What can I do to get help? I mean, I'm a huge fan, as are you, Alcoholics Anonymous. Great resource right there.

1:59:00Oftentimes you see guys kind of pouring you spike in early recovery coming off alcohol because it's just a way to numb. Oh, yeah, I've had issues where it's like I don't want to engage in certain behaviors so I'll even masturbate to keep myself away from those behaviors. it's like sometimes you're you know you're cutting off a chicken to save the horse or whatever it's called i'd like to think of it as harm reduction yeah harm reduction that's what i'm saying nothing wrong with that yeah nothing wrong with that especially you know oftentimes even with sexual recovery sometimes you get sober off more detrimental behaviors first you know if a guy has issues with uh a married guy and you're dealing with things that might end the marriage infidelity strip clubs or a host of those behaviors you know getting sober off those first can be critically important.

1:59:48And then over time, exploring your relationship with porn and masturbation. Oftentimes, porn and masturbation can be a harm reduction tool not to engage in more harmful behaviors. Yeah. Yeah, and it's all a process. And the good thing is even if you just go to AA, bro, you go to a 12-step, you start learning about this. You start getting into the world of it. Or if you go to like a SLA Zoom, or if you call and talk to someone that works over at Valor, It's like, you know, you just start to get into the world of realizing that there's some hope for whatever's going on. Well, you're not alone. Yeah, that's fine, bro.

2:00:22You're not alone, man. You're not alone. I mean, looking at two guys right here. You're not alone. You're not. I know, man. You're not alone. And anything is possible. That's right. You know, anything is still possible. But I'm going to quote one line that I hear you say all the time. Nothing changes. If nothing changes. Nothing changes. Yeah. And guess what? I learned that in the rooms. That's right. So whatever, do something. Don't do nothing. Yeah. I can guarantee the one way nothing will improve is doing nothing. Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, this ain't rocket science. Oh, dude, I've walked into some meeting rooms and then 10 years later, walked in again.

2:01:03That's right. Walked in and said, man, I think I need this, but I'm not sure. 10 years later, I'm back. Five years later, I'm back. You hear that all the time of guys like, I knew 15 years ago there was something wrong. But I didn't step all the way in. It's okay. Yeah, it's okay. Here now. It takes what it takes. That's what they say, too. That's right. It takes what it takes. Let's take another call. Thank you, Siege, bro. Hey, Theo. This is Ashley.

2:01:33I just wanted to call, I guess, and get some advice about my relationship. my boyfriend of almost two years now struggles a lot with lust and not being able to control himself when it comes to looking at porn or OnlyFans and things like that and I love him so much And I just wanted to get your advice on if you think men can change. That's a nice, that's thoughtful of her to call. What came up for you when you heard that?

2:02:22Just, I thought it was nice how much she cares. That she chose to call. First of all, I believe her. Sometimes you get a lot of calls, you say, you know, I don't know if this person's realistic or not. But I just, for, for, to me, I felt like she was genuine about it. Um, and it was kind of, and, and can people change? She didn't really make it about her, you know? And she said about lust, like she understands the bigger picture of it. So it's obvious that she's put some attention towards it to maybe even look, go search and look online, see, see some ideas or read up on it or something. Cause it's not just like, Hey, this guy's watching porn.

2:02:56It's like, he has a problem with lust and it's fascinating to think about lust. what do you think like when she says that like what do you kind of think steve like what is that about like well first thing i felt was she was sharing i felt the first thing i felt was a little sadness oh yeah i did feel some sadness for her i know she's going through a tough time tough and thank you ashley for calling sorry i should i should have said that first thinking about her boyfriend uh the behaviors that she actually knows that he's engaging in um are leading him down just a dark path. And so first thing I was thinking about is, wow, I hope she has the ability to take care of herself.

2:03:34Oftentimes, we focus so much on trying to get the significant other some help, which is important, directing him to really good resources out there. If he wants to get better, does he recognize this as a problem? And if he does, get him some help there because guys can get better and your relationship can thrive at some point in time in the future as he does the work and hopefully you guys get to do the work together and grow closer together. It doesn't always work that way, but there are some countless amazing stories where couples kind of do the work and their relationship gets better than it ever was before.

2:04:10That's the truth. That's the truth. That's the truth. Sometimes it doesn't work out that way, but as she was sharing, I just hope she's got a place to go a person to talk to perhaps a therapist that she can just share find ways to take care of herself yeah in the process right now um yeah and she stays on this journey yeah and you know what sometimes it's like the first time you have a real intimate conversation with somebody you know i was at a meeting the other day my friends and i were talking and they were saying after like dude we never even really talk like this you know And I was like, fuck, hey, hey, hey.

2:04:47Like recovery gave me the, I've been waiting my whole life to talk about something that meant something. It gave me like the language too. Like think about growing up where like the kind of man rules, right? Men don't cry. Men are tough, right? If you're sensitive, you are a fill in the blank. And so all of a sudden - If you see a Ford Festiva, you got to yell, down the street or whatever. Something like that, yeah. And so not a Mustang. and so it's not a mustang and so you know so so many men right you know where do we learn how to be vulnerable where is it a safe place to be vulnerable to be sensitive yeah the truth the matter is i'm a very sensitive guy a lot of men in recovery or dealing addiction are very sensitive men and for so much of my life i tried to hide that part of me that's thinking it was a weakness.

2:05:43And I use drugs. I acted out in certain ways to numb the pain of that sensitivity. I can tell you right now, my sensitivity today is a superpower. Amen. Because that allows me to have empathy and to feel your experiences in pain, given where I've been with this. Facts, dude. Yeah, man. Facts, bro. And you have the best stories too, dude. We didn't really tell today thank god because you'd probably have to filter them out yeah the best stories dude yeah yeah and we can even we can take this out but you have one story i remember about partying so hard in miami that you and a friend went instead of like you guys bought more drugs and more diapers out on the dance floor so you didn't have to yeah well we bought dope it was obviously laced with a laxative and we had a choice we had a choice to either throw the drugs out or make these kind of makeshift diapers and keep the party going needless to say you know how that the rest of the story goes yeah brother just so you gotta know steve is a real one the steve is and that's just that is the tip of the iwo jima dude that's the tip of the iceberg steve's a real one um oh and what else she was she was asking about something else though she was asking oh do you does she think it's possible for him to get better, right?

2:07:08Did you, did we answer all that? I, I am such a believer in the power of recovery. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no doubt. This, this whole episode, I think could help maybe be beneficial to him. If you want to share with him, you can tell him like, it's a, just say, Hey man, Theo, I wanted you to listen to this. Um, if you want, I don't know if I know him or not, or if I've ever met him, you know, you meet a lot of people, but, um, uh, so yeah, just say, Hey man, Hey, this is something your girlfriend wanted you to listen to. I've had issues with it. So if you feel okay listening to it, then check it out.

2:07:42So you can send him that little clip right there. And that can go along with this episode if you want.

2:07:50And then, oh, lust. She talked about lust. Lust kind of gets hijacked or something, doesn't it? We don't talk about lust too much, do we? Does it matter? Is it just a word? It's just a word, but I'll tell you what's interesting. How many guys come to me like, Steve, you don't understand. I think I'm just so horny. Maybe, but what's probably closer to the truth is you're actually just really uncomfortable and you've sexualized that discomfort. Oh yeah. If every time you get uncomfortable, you end up jerking off or looking at pornography, then when you get uncomfortable, you're like, oh, I'm horny.

2:08:25It's like, no, you're not. Connect the two in your brain. And so, you know, and what happens when guys get into recovery and get some time, you know, they stabilize. And they realize that they're not as horny as they think. Yeah. Because you're no longer using it as a tool to deal with your emotions. Right. Dude, they hijacked us, bro. The devil hijacked a lot of us, bro. You got to give props to the devil in a weird way because. Check on this one. They win this round. They won this round. They won this round. Hey, what's going on, Theo? My name is Donald. So I have a situation. I have a girlfriend.

2:09:08She's a long-distance type shit. We've been together for three years. But for the first year and a half, I would just, you know, lay that semen around type shit. Yeah, I wasn't a big infidel. just cheat on her. I'll stop. I told her a couple times, you know, that made me feel a bit proud of myself. But yeah, lately, you know, it's been a while, and I've just been jerking off, to be honest. Just been jerking off a couple times a day, honestly.

2:09:49So, not really sure what your thoughts are on that. I mean, it's better than cheating, but, you know, I'm struggling out here.

2:10:00Yeah, been watching mom porn. That thing, yeah. Okay. Yeah, dude. I think we've kind of, we've talked about some of this. Thanks for calling, bro. Donovan or Jonathan? Donald. Donald. Okay, thanks for calling Donald. I didn't know people saw the name Donald, but I'm glad they do. I'm glad they do, bro. And bring it back. B-Y-O-D, bro. what I'm saying is this, dude, is yeah, sorry, this whole segment to me, it feels like it's very foreign, it feels like here's the energy I don't like, and this isn't the real energy of it, that we know something you don't, right? Like, we're just two guys who are fucking trying our best here.

2:10:41But we have shown up a lot to places to try our best. So I'll give us a lot of credit with that. And Steve has done a great job of like transforming his whole life. yeah dude I just know if you do that it just weakens the spirit so something's uncomfortable in you something's uncomfortable in your spirit right and you're only going to get clues from it probably if you stop masturbating and stuff you'll start to get some clues but the tough part is and this has been tough for me the clues get scary and sometimes it's it's hard to handle you don't know something's ah you know sometimes you just want to scream and sometimes it's like primal stuff you don't know what's going on and so you just you sedate yourself with like pornography or masturbations to keep yourself at bay but um but it can be different right steve yeah what i took from the call was uh this kind of idea like you can't really do this alone uh yeah because this dude sounds like he's pretty capable of getting stuff done that's right and he's insightful he's honest but he's running the show right and so you know i i would strongly suggest to get some help you know willpower will only get you so far yeah right getting some time to understand what's driving these behaviors get to the root cause of some of these challenges get some professional help great resources get involved in the community a men's group where you can kind kind of have some, a band of brothers where you can kind of run stuff by and talk through these things.

2:12:11Tough to do this by yourself. Yeah. What happens is it'll be 10 years from now and you'll still be struggling with this stuff and you'll just lose time. That's bro. That is the truest thing. If you relate to some of this stuff, if you relate to it at a pretty strong level where you like, I think I had it. It does not just go away. No. I can, there's nothing that's been, that's the most honest thing I could ever tell you in my whole life. It does not just go. When I started this process, I had a head of hair like you. And I look at this thing right now. Yeah. You just lose time. You lose hair. You look great, man.

2:12:52And bro, you've done a great job today too, dude. Yeah. Thank you. It's been a pleasure being here. Thank you, bro. Thank you so much just for being here, for talking about this, man. Some stuff, it's like, I don't know. I just, it's been so much more comfortable than I thought it would be. and I don't even know why I didn't think it would be you know alright let's see let's have one more call that came in please hey Theo this is Cody from Florida and I think you're really big on porn addictions and that's kind of a weird topic to get personal about if you know what I mean very awkward topic but I feel like I feel like I just lost the love of my life because of it I can't control myself I can't I feel like this is my generation I'm 19 man I just I feel like it's so normalized it's so routine it's so normal for me to feel normalized about doing this shit.

2:14:03And I just lost. The best thing that's ever happened to me, she broke up with me, man. This is a fucking, this is a Gooner National Anthem right here. She left me and I can't believe it, bro. Can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop dreaming about it. I can't, I can't get past the memories that we had because of my actions, my actions, my actions made me lose it, bro. and I just wanted to see if I could get some advice from you yeah dude thanks for calling in about it bro and uh yeah sorry I was kind of joking around dude but it's real and it's and if you really have this porn addiction if you related to it enough where you kind of call you heard it and thought about it and called then it must have some relative there must be something inside of you that's connecting with it right if you've even just heard me talk about it before because today's the most we've ever even talked about it ever so if you're picking up on something from the from before uh it it won't get better you have to you have to you got to help it get better right so you got to show up for it and help it get better and it will get better and as far as yeah you might have lost your girl this situation for now but you i i believe you get second chances and i believe that you won't miss out on the next good one and you will be so grateful down the line that uh you started to solve the solve some of the issues uh now then waited that's what i think man from my own experience steve what do you what do you think i think um everywhere i go there i am meaning that um you know that's just the reality If I could date that woman without me, it'd probably be a great experience.

2:15:53But I bring me to that relationship. So I think pain is the cornerstone of spiritual growth. And what happened, happened. Sounds like awful, tragic, horrible. But I'll tell you what, what would be really tragic if you didn't use this moment in time to get the help you need. Leverage the pain you're in right now to get the help you need. Really important, right? The gift of desperation. don't let this go by and pass and like oh maybe it wasn't that bad use the pain you're in as leverage to get help amen that's the truth bro that's dude that's cool dude yeah yeah bro the gift of desperation we both lived it but yeah thanks Cody for calling in um did we get those three guys guys by chance if we have accurate shot them here we go right here these are the ethical capital partners.

2:16:49This couple of guys right here, there's the managing partner, Fadi Mansour, Rocco Meliambro, and he's definitely been gooning, and Solomon Friedman had a feeling he was involved. There he is right now. He's the partner VP compliance. I love how compliance is part of it. What do you do working at a porn company for compliance? I'm curious I don't know dude I do not know so that's them right there ethical capital partners so we want to thank those guys for being basically they are those are your porn Sackler family right there that's what I that's what I call them that's just my thoughts those are the Sacklers of pornography right there those good people Fadi Mansour Rocco Meliambro and Solomon Friedman.

2:17:47Thank you guys for your service. Steve Walt, man, thank you for your service, dude. Today is a service call. That's what they say in recovery rooms. If like you, you know, you make a service call on people, you do something to be helpful to the group or to someone. So what a treat to be here. Thank you, dude. What a long journey, huh? Yeah. It's only just started. That's the craziest part, bro. And that's the best attitude to have. congratulations man on starting a family on making something real out of something that was just like do you look back sometimes and you're like I cannot even believe it I really do I just talked to my wife last night in anticipation of this and I was like I can't believe I'm here really unfathomable and how did I get here just one day at a time one step at a time taking better making better decisions yeah Anybody can do it, huh?

2:18:45100%. You believe that? I really do. Yeah. Doesn't matter if you have money or don't money, if you're in a wheelchair, if you can't see far, it doesn't matter. No. Anybody can do it, as long as you don't quit before the miracle happens. Amen. Steve, bro, I love you, bro. Thank you for being a part of my life, bro. Thank you for letting me be a part of your life. You showed up for my comedy show when I came out to Bend, Oregon. We had so much fun. That was awesome. That was cool, dude. That was awesome. and you've just been such a light over the years, dude. We know so many friends. Most of like the most important people in my life, you know them.

2:19:18That's right. Best friends in the world that have friends in recovery. Oh, dude, nothing better. No, amazing human beings, crazy as can be. They could be decades sober, off their rockers, incredible and beautiful. Yeah. Oh, the good times do not end, bro. No, they don't. You always want to know who's got the best story in the room, dude. You finally get to meet all of those people. That's right. That's right. It's good stuff. Steve, Valor Recovery. You guys can check out his program. If anything, you feel like you can relate to. Steve, I love you, bro. Thank you, bro. Thank you. Now I'm just floating on the breeze And I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take...