#676 - Billy Strings

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31:10Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results will vary. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors, LLC, and ICC Registered Investment Advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com. It seems like you've had a lot of people kind of pass away from your kind of life just probably because a lot of the drugs that came to y 'all's area. Yeah, drugs, depression. I mean, it was always like overdose. You know, a couple friends that I was close to committed suicide. And then a lot of people were kind of hauled off to prison. And so that's where, you know, a lot of the folks that I were friends with and loved and stuff, that's like the three ways that they would mostly leave.

31:47Yeah. Yeah. Was there a funeral that you remember going to? Like, do you remember the first funeral you ever went to? Yeah, my grandpa's funeral, I think, was the first one, at least that I remember. Were you, like, surprised that people died? Like, I remember I went to a funeral for the first time. and even though i had known like like we we knew that my friend's brother had passed away but when i went to the funeral i didn't i don't think i really registered it like and then we went to the funeral and like um it was like oh and it was just like so it was i don't know yeah i remember thinking it was so much it was so much it was falling dude and i just wanted like my tear like i was like it wasn't even my family but it was just like so crazy to think think that like this part of that that that's part of it yeah and i remember wanting to be my tears my tears were like going into the cracks in the fucking floor and i was like god that's i just want to crawl down in there it well it just feels like it's so like i don't know i was just like it's hard it hurts already the fact that you're gonna not have to be here one day something about it already hurts yeah i think that's how i felt like when i was young for sure yeah it's it's tough to think about.

33:02I mean, nobody, nobody wants that. Um, but it's kind of the only thing you can count on really. Yeah. I remember thinking it was really like for, I, it was first time I saw a dead body, I think was my grandpa's. And I remember like, I think my aunt, maybe my grandma and stuff was like, you know, kissing him and stuff. And I remember just kind of being like weirded out by that like whoa you know they're like kissing that dead my dead grandpa's body that was a freak yeah i mean i would i'd be like damn i didn't know what that was possible damn he must have really had it yeah no he was he was badass man oh if somebody's yeah i think yeah if i'm laying there i want somebody my friends to come up and tickle me or do some little things like that you know maybe sneak a pill under my tongue or something or give me one hit of lsd at that point yeah because if i die sober man then that's what i want and i don't know if that's crazy to announce whatever but yeah if you come if you come to my funeral you're welcome to slide a little hit of lucid under me you know yeah help you with you know good journey yeah good luck out there brother yeah let's make it hey make it rip bro um dude you had your how's your leg how's the leg going on i I know everybody asks you, so I...

34:23It's great. Yeah, I mean, it's healing up pretty good. I've been doing lots of physical therapy and shit. Last time I saw you, I was on crutches. Now I'm just kind of rocking this guy. Hell yeah, that cane, baby. Yeah. Billy Wonka, dude. That bitch is hype. Your wife got you that? Yeah, because this is the cane that Lawrence Talbot had on the original 1941 Universal. motion pictures, the wolf man. And Lawrence, Larry Talbot, in the beginning of the film, he's working on his dad's telescope. He just comes back to England or wherever they're at. And he's working on the telescope, and then he comes over, and he sees this girl in her window, and she's putting on her earrings and stuff.

35:15He's peeping Tom and that shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then so he sees her and then he realizes she works at the antiques shop. So he goes over there and he's like trying to talk to her. And then he really doesn't know what he's looking for. She's like, well, what are you looking for? And he said, well, what I'm really looking for is a walking stick. And he picks this one up. He's like, this one's pretty cool. It's got a dog on it. And she's like, that's a wolf. And so he goes out on a double date with this chick, with her friend Jenny. and she sees this fortune teller in the woods that's actually played by Bela Lugosi, who was like the original Dracula.

35:52Oh, yeah, bro. Lugosi was like that. Yeah. The wolf man, this is called? Yeah, man. And he was a peeping Tom? Lon Chaney. Yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah, dude. That's how he found his girl. But anyways, that fortune teller sees Jenny in the woods and he's looking at her palm. He's reading her palm and he sees this symbol, that star with a circle in it. And then he's like, you guys got to dip. Like, you know, because that's what happens is the wolf man sees that symbol in the palm of his next victim. And so then, you know, they skedaddle. And then all of a sudden you start hearing these big howls and shit.

36:34And this wolf is attacking Jenny. And Larry beats the shit out of that wolf with this cane because it's got a silver head on it. Silver bullets, you know, silver can kill a wolf. a werewolf and then he goes home he gets bit in the process and he goes home the the old lady drops him off and then you know they the cops show up and he's like man you know the fortune teller was found dead in the woods and he's like i'm telling you i killed a plain old ordinary wolf and uh so yeah anyways this is the larry talbot cane i'm a big fan of all those old monster movies My dad used to watch him with me when I was a kid.

37:12Yeah. And I was really fascinated with the wolf man when I was little. I wouldn't go outside if there was a full moon. Really? Yeah, because I knew he was out there, dude, just lurking on his tippy toes with them fangs. Yeah. Dude, being scared as a kid, bro, remember how scary it was? When you think of how scary it was when you were scared of something as a kid, dude. Yeah. The dark, bro. Yeah, yeah. Bro, under a bed? Get out of here, bro. Yeah, monsters in the closet or something. Or you think something's some shadows. You see the, like, when it was nighttime and we were driving in the car with my parents and stuff.

37:53And I was looking out the window. We'd be driving past a forest. And I used to call them wolf-assist trees because, like, I knew the wolf was out there. And, like, in the movie, he's, like, lurking behind these trees and shit. And they're all, like, oily black. and like I just always whenever I saw like the woods at night I was just like I knew the wolf man was out there I believed in him oh dude I remember thinking that like I would oh that's him yeah that's Lon Chaney Lon Chaney Jr damn he's like that he looks like he used to play for the Minnesota Vikings a little bit like my buddy Steve Setzler he's got that look bro I remember we would watch those Jason.

38:31We watched Friday, the 13th movies with our older brothers. And then our older brothers would just go dip and do some shit and just leave the younger brothers. Like the craziest thing you can do is watch a scary movie with your younger brother and then just dip because that kid is fucking scared out of his ankles, bro. I remember me and my friend William just sitting there. We sat back to back to, we were so scared and we stayed up for as long as we could yeah we put every light in the house on except the one of my mom's bedroom and then we put a towel in front of her door so the light wouldn't go in there and we had we were like we are not losing this plate like oh just everything was fucking traumatic dude and you'd hear a car go by and you'd be like that's freddy krueger yeah it would always be something that was so intense bro my dad when i was uh when i was little there was one night because i he you know he's the one that showed me the wolf man and shit when i was i don't even know fucking five five, six.

39:30And, uh, yeah. And so I remember there was one night where I was, I was up in my room and I was playing with toy cars and I was probably supposed to be asleep and I probably had, you know, school the next morning or something, but I was in there playing with my toy cars and shit. And my dad had this wolf mask and he went outside and I had a window that went off to the back porch and he, you know, I'm sitting there playing with my toy cars and I heard a noise and I like looked around and I was like, what the fuck was that? And I'm like, uh, you know, and I went back to playing and then I heard clearly a scratch on the screen of the window.

40:05And I looked up dude. And I saw he was wearing that wolf mask and it fucking dude. I freaked. Your dad did that? Yeah. He scared the living shit out of me. And I, uh, I ran out of my room, like down the hallway. We lived in this little trailer. Did you know it was him? Hell no. I mean, I thought it was a wolf, you know and uh i ran and i've ran like i jumped from like the hallway all the way over to my mom who was laying on the couch and i just landed right on top of her i was screaming crying my dad came in the back door just laughing he's like it's a mask it's a mask you know oh and i'm just like oh dude i man it must have been funny but why would you do that so scary dude he still talks about it bro yeah i guess but i guess yeah maybe look dude maybe you're like i'm gonna scare the shit out of this fucking kid you know i'm saying who knows what parents think because all you have to do is have two beers and be like hey i think i'm gonna scare my kid the next thing you know you're doing it yeah you know or maybe it's like he's he's supposed to be in bed but he's in there playing with his toy cars i'm gonna go you know oh yeah but dude he just scratched on that that metal screen and i'm like i heard it the first time i was like what the fuck was that and then second time and he like moved into the light with that mask dude i was so terrified god dude yeah yeah dude they we had uh we called it they called it like haunt people would go haunting in our area and it was like that was like peeping times they had a lot of peeping times in our area so you'd see people out there almost on the circuit or whatever like people would like hit like it was just like a lot of peeping times you know they busted a lot of dudes in our area they had a lot of pedophiles in our area because they used to have this this law where if he was a pedophile, and you might, I don't know if you believe in him or not, I believe in him.

41:52Believe in what? Pedophiles? Yeah. Like, do I believe they're real? Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they're real. Okay. All right. Same. Unfortunately. Same. Yeah. But the problem was, dude, they would have to come to your door. They had a law if they moved into the neighborhood, they had to come to your door. But all of our moms worked in our neighborhood. Like, Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, a lot of it was a lot of single-parent families in the mom's work. So you'd have a pedophile would come to the door and, like, have to let you guys know I'm a pedophile. Oh, yeah. And it would just be us kids answering the door.

42:24Like, it was the worst. Oh, shit. It was the worst idea that they'd ever come up with, dude. Yeah. Because we, I remember three different pedophiles or P-files, people call them because if they're in a hurry or whatever. But I remember three different P-files would come and be like, hey, I just have to let you know that I'm registered and that I'm in the neighborhood. and we're like, and we'd just be standing there, dude, just kids. Well, I reckon that was like, you know, probably the early days of the internet and stuff and long before that like database. Oh, for sure. This was just when, yeah.

42:54So that's what they had to do is they had to go kind of out themselves. Yeah, well. They'd organize them. Because before that, they were just working freelance or whatever, I guess, you know, before they, you know, had them all registered up. But anyway, let's change the subject. Yeah, dude, so what happened? Take me through a little bit of the injury. So is it better now, would you say? Yeah, it's definitely getting there. I mean, it's stiff and it hurts a little bit. But, yeah, I was just, man, I grew up skateboarding and it's always been one of my major loves, you know, outside of music. And I think, you know, the last little bit I've been playing a lot more music than skating.

43:37but I was on tour and I was skating a fair amount I remember we went through Tampa and I went through the skate park of Tampa there dude I've been there that indoor building bring that place up what's it called? skate park of Tampa dude this was one of the neatest things thank you so much for reminding me about that today they let us just come and watch one day and watch all the guys skating yeah they have a big contest every year Tampa Pro and when I went this last time all the pros were there warming up and shit. Yeah, it was gnarly. It was cool to go see them skate. But I was skating and you know I don't know.

44:15And like in these arenas that we play I mean you know it's like you get to the back door sometimes like just the walk to the green room is like a far ass walk, right? Oh yeah, dude. Sometimes you have to stop and even get a snack. Yeah. So I had been using my skate like I would get off the bus and I would just bring my skateboard and I would like slap down. Also, the concrete's always so smooth in there. Yeah, it is pretty slick. A lot of the concrete in those places is kind of slick. Yeah. So it's really nice on a skateboard. It's super smooth. So I could just like push twice and like be all the way around the whole arena and like, you know, into my green room or whatever.

44:53But I, you know, I'd been skating a bunch.

44:59and we finished this show in Charlottesville, I think. It's the John Paul Jones Arena. Dude, that's a great spot. Yeah. Been there. Yeah, so we finished there. That town is great. Yeah, it is. That's where UVA is. Yeah, and yeah, I was lucky that I broke my leg there. They had a great medical team there, you know, like that. The hospitals are great there. Oh yeah, you break that bitch up in Syracuse Or something, I just wish that bitch was better You know It was crazy So like I mean It was really weird, I was all excited After my gig, we just Finished the last song, it was this big hide and seek jam And we just spanked the crowd And And I was all excited I had all this adrenaline from the show And my board was sitting there We walked off stage, we were getting ready to do an encore and so I just grabbed my board I did like a couple bonuses and then um I went out just right backstage and I just kind of flung this back 180 and that's like it's a go-to trick for me I've done it millions of times and I've never broke my leg you know and but the thing is is like I wasn't like focused and I wasn't really skating I was just like flinging tricks and I wasn't like thinking about it.

46:16And so, and it was dark and I had brand new like sticky shoes on. And so it was weird. Like I did this back when 80 and I kind of slipped out. And then when I put my foot down, my body kept spinning and I sort of like sat on my foot and my, my shoes were brand new. So like there's the bottoms was sticky. And it just, when I put my foot down, my toe stayed right where it was and the rest of my body kept moving. So I just heard it snap. Oh dude. Yeah. I could hear it over the crowd, like screaming. And it was just, I mean, it sounded like a two by four snapping in half and I'm laying on the ground and my guitar tech comes up, Toby, he says, dude, get up.

46:56And I'm like, I just broke my leg. And he's like, nah, I'm like, look at it. It's fucking, it's pointed 90 degrees to the left. And he's like, Oh shit. And so I laid there for a minute and nobody was like moving me or anything. So I'm like, fuck it. I just got up. I Lieutenant Dan, my ass out of there. You know, I just scooted on my ass back behind the curtain. They came, they cut my pant leg up. Could you tell it was broken? Oh, I knew it was broken immediately. I mean, I heard it. It was like, and the fact that it was like pointed the wrong way. It was like, yeah, my leg is fucking broken. Did you try to fix it yourself at all?

47:28No, no, I didn't fuck with it. But I scooted out of there And then the medic came And he kind of cut my pant leg up And they took me and they put me on this stretcher And then I called my wife And I'm like yeah I just broke my leg She's like what? I was dicking around on my skateboard And fucking slipped out And somehow I broke my leg And all the pros I've talked to and stuff Even Tony Hawk, Jamie Thomas All these cats They're just like man that's how it happens It's like some stupid little trick Like it's always like some dumb thing. Um, but so I'm sitting on the stretcher and the guy comes up and he's like, we're going to give you some fentanyl.

48:07I was like, nah, like I was like, no, like it, don't you know how far I've come? Yeah. You know, I was like fentanyl, like, you know, and he's like, and you know, one of the guys was like, dude, the roads are pretty bumpy around here. You're going to want that. It's like, all right, fuck it. So they gave me fentanyl and IV. It like took the edge off, you know? Yeah. And at that point, I was starting to go into shock, and I started sweating, but I was freezing, and it started to hurt. Because it didn't even hurt when it happened. I hurt it, and I knew it was broken, but I had so much adrenaline, it didn't even fucking hurt.

48:41That's wild, dude. Was that a pretty—that whole experience has got to be pretty wild. Because adrenaline is just like a crazy drug that God gives you, but you can't just get it whenever you want. Yeah, it was wild. I mean, I knew my leg was broken. I couldn't even feel it at first. My leg was pointed sideways, and I'm like, oh, man, it's busted. But it didn't hurt until that adrenaline started to wear off, and then it was like, oh, and then it kind of started coming. I'm like, oh, shit, here it comes. And then they gave me that fentanyl. They hit you with an IV? Yeah, and they were doing that and morphine back to back.

49:17Fentanyl would work better, but it only lasts like 10 minutes. Damn. And then the morphine would last longer, but it didn't help as much. but then so they got me there and they they gave me a red carpet man it was like you know we got a uh you had a police escort yeah police escort you know they're like we got a high profile patient you know and so they've man they brought me in this back door they closed off the hallways there was nobody in there they wheeled me right into the x-rays immediately it was fucking cool and then uh did it feel like a movie kind of yeah i mean it was just nice that i didn't have to sit there with the broken leg in the emergency room forever.

49:51Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. And shit. Oh yeah. Getting a little bit of treatment. Just to not just sit out there and some other guys coughing on your fucking leg or whatever. And somebody's fucking, yeah. Some guys using you to fucking sleep on your back and shit. Bro, our healthcare system is fucking crazy. It's wild. Just people like, like trying to heal each other, like religiously and shit in the lobbies. A lot of these hospitals just got crazy. Yeah. People rubbing pepper Jack on each other's fucking necks and shit. Like, And just people just like thinking up shit they can do because they got to wait five or six hours to get in there to even get a fucking hug, you know?

50:24Yeah, totally. So I was lucky to get in there and they x-rayed it and stuff. And I mean, I can show you the x-rays. They're pretty, pretty gnarly. I remember when I saw you in Austin, you showed me a picture that was crazy. It looked like they'd fucking turned it into a damn violin. Yeah, that was. That one you showed me. Well, that's, yeah, after they, you know, the surgery and stuff. There's one in there right after it happened, before it was even set and splinted, where it looks really fucked. Yeah, dude, turn it into a viola. Dude, what if you had a viola leg, dude, and you made it wooden, and you put some strings on the side of that bit?

51:03That metal bar in there could work as a whammy bar if I ever get it taken out. That's what it looks like. kind of. But dude, the craziest part about the whole thing was, so I get in there and we get it x-rayed. Yeah. That's the one that looks really screwed. That was before it was set and splinted. So it's what they call a distal tib fib spiral fracture. And it's, it means like it's broken like pretty close to my ankle, which made it worse. If it was broken in the middle of my leg, they could just put a rod down there, screw it. And like, it'd be a lot better. But because it was so close to my ankle.

51:35It was, it's a bitch of a surgery, like, you know, and so, but dude, they, they x-rayed it and they're like, okay, we're going to have to set it and splint it before, because I don't, I'm not going to get surgery till the next morning. So they had to get it straight and then, and then put a splint on it. And so they needed me to like not be in the room, but they couldn't put me under anesthesia. So what they did is gave me this huge dose of ketamine and it was insane. It was like one of the most like crazy psychedelic experiences I've ever had. I mean, they dropped me straight into a K-hole. Really?

52:13And take me through some of that. Take me through the K-hole. Was it like, was there a layover or was it just straight there? Was it direct flight? Like were you getting emails? Yeah, direct flight. I mean, it was immediately everything just folded in on itself and like language and everything kind of made up all these molecules. And I could still hear the doctors talking a little bit, but they were using now this alien language that I couldn't understand. And I was frozen in this white space and time, and I went down into this other dimension. It was like when Matthew McConaughey was trying to move the book on the shelf.

52:49It was like I was trapped behind layers of language. Fuck, that's a good description, Billy. Yeah, and I was there, and I knew I was there, but there was nothing I could do. And it felt like I turned into like computer code or like, I felt like I was the, the microchip inside of an iPod sending signals. But you know, um, and it, it was, it was wild. I felt very much like an inanimate object. Yes, dude. That's what it felt like. Dude. Yeah. I felt like I was playing hide and go seek, but I just, I never told with myself, but I'd never told myself that we started the game. Like I felt like I had fucking, I felt like I would never find my shoes again.

53:36That's what I felt like. And I also remember feeling like I was like something very small that had fallen behind a piece of furniture. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. I just had like, you were making me, dude, that's some of those thoughts you just had were freaking bananas. Yeah. It was like, I was stuck in this frozen dimension and I was just kind of was like, well, I guess this is life now. Yeah. You know, I guess this is where I'm at. And this sucks because I think I'm dead, you know? And I just was like, well, shit. And I was kind of like, well, whatever. I guess I'm just, there was nothing I could do because I was paralyzed in this state.

54:13Yeah, dude. I felt like you ever see that ball in the back of your throat kind of that's there? Yeah. But you just see like every once in a while, you kind of get a glimmer of it through your whole life. Yeah. And yeah, I felt kind of like that. I felt like that, but on like an animal somewhere at a zoo that had been closed for almost 2 ,000 years. Right. That's what I felt like. Yeah, long forgotten. Yes. I felt like these sunglasses that are just sitting here, but nobody knows that they have a soul and a brain, but they can't say or do anything because they're just frozen in these glasses. But you know what I mean?

54:45Yeah. So then when I started to come back to, that was hilarious too because I guess I started coming to, There's this lady's face right here, and her face is all distorted, and she's talking to me in this alien language. And I looked at her. I'm like, who are you? And then I look over here, and there's this big, tall man in a white shirt, and I was like, Uncle John? And then my wife said I was talking all sorts of gibberish about the inside of an apple core and that this has all been predetermined. This was all thought out, and this was part of the plan. You know, everything You had the wizard's tongue, they call it Yeah, yeah, for a second there, I thought I was And then I was also speaking complete gibberish Not saying real words Yeah, but you got it, yeah That's fucking, welcome to New Jersey Yeah, the doctors were running around Doing a bunch of stuff to me And I just like, I was like I didn't know what was going on Like I thought there were aliens like fucking with me You know, like trying to probe me or something And I was like, fuck you Like I just told them that Get away from my ass, whitey I was like, I'm sorry.

55:50You know, I didn't mean that. You know, and then. Oh, yeah. There's nothing crazier than being on drugs and being an asshole and apologizing at the same time. Yes. Right away. I was like, fuck you. I'm sorry. You know, and then they put this thing on. I mean, it's. You're the best. The. What do you call it for your blood pressure? Oh, yeah. That cough. Yeah, that cough. It fills up. So I'm laying there. I'm all fucked up. And that thing fills up. and probably because of my guns, that thing popped right off, right? The Velcro came undone, and it goes pop off my arm, and I go, my butt popped. It felt like my butt cheeks blew up with air, and then they popped like a bubble.

56:34And I was like, oh, my butt popped. My wife was trying not to laugh, but I was saying some crazy shit. And then they brought me upstairs, and I was in a lot of pain all night long because they started giving me like Dilaudid's and hydrocodone just orally and it wasn't doing anything to the pain. I just laid there and moaned and groaned all night. Dude, but that seems crazy that they, and did they have to go over with your wife if they were going to give you all that medication? Like who approves that once you're kind of like... Yeah, my manager was there, my wife, my security dude, you know. Okay, so there were people there at least like keeping tabs on you.

57:12Yeah. Okay, bad. Yeah, I think my dude, Jim, he rode with me over there and then my manager and stuff. Yeah, you know Jim. Dude, he's awesome, bro. Yeah, he's a killer. He's a great guy. Yeah. Then the next morning, they fucking took me down for surgery. And before they gave me a nerve block, which was the best thing ever, because it's like an epidural for your leg. It just drenches all the nerves in lidocaine. So I didn't feel nothing then for the first time since it happened. I was like, oh, it just felt so good to not feel it. Damn, you were like Lemon M in the 2000s. You were like, okay, Marshall, nothing matters.

57:47Yeah, dude. For sure. That's crazy, bro. And they gave me this one shit. I can't remember what it was called, but it had me so chilled out. And then like, God, dude, it sounds like this is kind of the worst thing to say, being in recovery, but to fucking say like, yeah, using drugs like in a hospital, like under like proper care. Yeah, it was a freebie. Yeah, it was a freebie, dude. Yeah. It was. It really was. I mean, and I, except for the, except for the, I mean, I sort of enjoyed the ketamine, but it was also terrifying because I thought I was frozen in a different dimension, you know? Yeah, you're like, nobody's ever going to come.

58:23Like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I thought my brain had fried and I, you know, it was like you took a glass of water and poured it on a television or something. It was like all the, you know, my brain just fried. But man, the thing that they gave me right before surgery, I don't know what it was, but it had me so chilling and I was finally just getting some rest and some relief. And then my oxygen kept going down. So my thing started beeping. So I'd start chilling like this and then she'd go beep, beep, beep. And then this lady would come in and say, I need you to take a big, deep breath for me.

58:55I'm like, you know, I take a deep breath and then I chill a little bit and it goes beep, beep. And she's like, I need you to breathe. And I'm like, I am breathing. You know, like, just leave me alone. Like, I'm fucking chilling finally, you know. God, now that I'm chilling, you're coming in here making me breathe and shit. Because I guess I was so chilled out I wasn't even breathing. I was just, you know. Yeah, that's one of those breath diggers, dude. It was good. Chicks like that that just want to fucking all they care about is you filling your lungs up, dude. All those fucking, just those lung diggers or whatever they call them.

59:25Probably the smartest thing that I did coming out of the hospital was I gave all my pain meds to my wife. And I said, you divvy these up, you know. Yeah. You're in charge of this. Give me my pills when I need them and stuff. Because I know myself too well. I'd be like, oh, man, one of these is good. Wonder what two is like. So then. Yeah, start hiding or whatever. Yeah. I'd fucking start boofing them. I don't care what I would do. Crush one up and snort it or something. Yeah. I'd snort it with my ass, brother. I get it. You know what I'm saying? If I had to like. A little parachute. Yeah. What's it called?

59:59A little parachute. Oh, yeah. A little parachute, bro. Yeah, dude. I'd send somebody behind enemy lines I'd send one of them behind enemy lines For sure But yeah, I can't trust myself And I'm You know, I've just been around it a lot And I know myself, I'm an addict So I was like scared to You know, be on that stuff Anyways, but I had to take out They gave me Dilaudids And then I was on this What is it called? Gabapentin was like the nerve pain thing And then there was another I just saw a lawsuit about gabapentin. You may be able to be part of this. Dude, that shit gave me vertigo like a motherfucker.

1:00:37It was crazy, dude. But, yeah, I weaned off it in, like, I weaned off, like, everything in, like, two weeks. And then I was just on, like, ibuprofen and stuff. So it was pretty good. Two weeks. Two weeks is a long haul. Let's read it really quick. Is that new? Yeah. Is it really? Is it dementia? Shut up. But, look, dude, I'm just going to tell you just in case. I'm telling you, this shit gave me vertigo, like weird brain shit to where when I'm laying in bed and I roll over like this, next thing you know, I'm spinning. You know how when you get way too drunk and you're spinning and you can't fucking hold the, you know, that's what it was doing to me, dude.

1:01:12And like one of the first times it happened, I laid back in bed and I moved my head like this and I was like that because I thought the bed was falling down into the floor. I thought I was going to slide off the end of it, you know? Dude, fuck yeah, I know what you're talking about. Dude, when I was like 13 or something, I fucking, the dude left the Gravitron. door open at our fair one time and my fucking legs were hanging out of that bitch and dude no joke bro i walked sideways for probably almost 11 days after that dude i just like my body just could not adjust to what was going on that thing would that thing fucking remixed my little ass um there is currently no nationwide class action lawsuit or multi-district litigation for these cognitive claims the allegation lawsuits are being investigated or filed individually alleging that manufacturers failed to warn patients and doctors about potential long-term neurocognitive risks such as mild cognitive impairment or dementia tied to repeated use for off-label conditions like back or neck pain.

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1:04:41That's better h e l p dot com slashth eo Just a second ago, you mentioned addiction. When you say, I know myself, I know I'm an addict, what does that kind of mean? Addiction, it feels like it's almost this shadow that has its own game plan or something. Addiction is kind of a weird thing. I think a lot of people don't understand it. I'm not saying that I understand it totally. I know that I have addiction. I know that I struggle with addiction, but I think it's just interesting to think about what it is. Yeah, it's an illness. I mean, I think some people are lucky enough not to have it. I think people who can go out and have a couple beers with their dinner or a glass of wine with their steak or whatever, it's like, man, that's amazing.

1:05:34I wish I could do that. Because I'm like, we need to get a bottle of whiskey and finish it, and we need to go on a mission to get more after that's gone. Oh dude I'll fucking If I come over to your house And you give me a glass of wine I'm gonna fucking get an eight ball I'm gonna sell I'll sell your front porch on Etsy Yeah You know what I'm saying I'll sell all your fucking windows Out of your house You little Sorry And I'm gonna take that out But You wanna know what's crazy Is that It just Yeah It's just not gonna end well dude So After my mom died And I was in Australia When I found out that She died from an overdose I was in Australia on tour.

1:06:12I still had no idea what happened. I was like, was it an aneurysm, a heart attack? Like, what the hell happened? And then I got her autopsy and her papers back and her death certificate, and it said methamphetamine intoxication was the cause of death. Like, holy shit. Because that was a surprise. Yeah, big time. I mean, and I had no idea that she was using again and stuff. So it broke my heart, and I've been dealing with it. But as soon as I got back home from Australia, I went straight over to her house and I went up in her bedroom and I started digging through shit and I found her stash. And I found all these, you know, pipes and, you know, little bags and vials and stuff and all that shit.

1:06:54But, dude, the difference is like this speed was different than the stuff I was used to. Like back when I was around that scene, living in Ionia, and it was that epidemic at that time, it was being cooked in this area, and it was like Sudafed, like shake and bake, kind of country bumpkin sort of crank. I know you're talking about just like that homemade shit kind of. Yeah, it was like white powdery stuff, and you put it in a pipe or a light bulb or a foil. Like jank them or whatever. Not exactly. Not exactly, but I know what you're saying. But I'm just saying it's like a localized mixture. It's like a local recipe.

1:07:31But it got the job done. Anyways, this shit that I found after she had died when I found her stash, this was straight crystal glass. And I had never even seen shit like that before, right? I had heard about it, and everybody's seen Breaking Bad and shit. But I'm looking at it. I got this vial, and it's like half full. And I'm like, damn. And it just looks like broken glass in there, like shards. Really? Yeah. And I'd never. Does it look like anything like that? I mean, we just brought up a picture here. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could also, I could send you the pictures of it, but, um, dude, you want to know what the first thought that went through my head was?

1:08:08It was like, man, I should just take a little bit of this and put it aside for like a rainy day. Yeah. You know, cause I don't, where the hell else would I get some, you know, I don't, I don't know anybody anymore or whatever. That's like that addict, you know, coming through. It's like this literally the stuff that I'm holding in my hand killed my mom. And my first thought is I should take some and just hide it. Like that way, if I need it someday, you know, I'll have it. And yeah, it was just that was a crazy thought, you know. And I just ended up, you know, getting rid of it. I got a hold of my buddy, my friend Alec, who's a police officer I went to high school with growing up.

1:08:53And I called him and I was like, man, can you have one of your boys come just grab this stuff? Like, I don't want to put it in the trash can because I'll go digging back through there later or my dad will or something or somebody will. Or I just needed to get like actually dispose of it, you know. And so my mom would have hated that. She always told me don't even speak to the police. But, yeah. Yeah. Man, another crazy thing too is like. That's a good definition of it. Yeah. I mean, that's how bad it is. It's like, like I said, this literally killed my mom. And I'm thinking, man, I should just take a little bit.

1:09:28Yeah. Put it aside. Nobody would know. And also thoughts like for a rainy day. Oh, yeah. I would be like, let me keep some so I can scrapbook it. I'm not even joking. That's what my brain would do. So I can like have like a, you know what I'm saying? Like I'll think like, let me keep some for like a memory. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, but there's a part of my brain that's like, man, I don't know. That's just a good, I'm sorry to hear that. I know we had texted kind of around that time, but, um, yeah, man. And I appreciate you, uh, reaching out, you know, this guy, he got a big heart. I mean, you stayed in touch with me through all that.

1:10:07When I was in the hospital with my dad, you kept, you know, kept in touch and you offered to come walk my dog when I I broke my leg. Man, you're a good dude, and I appreciate all that. Well, thanks, man. You're one of the realest guys we've ever... You're one of the realest people I've been around. I don't know how God gave you that gift to be so real. I don't know. And I'm sorry to hear about your mom, dude. Yeah. She loved you, bro. Did she? Yeah. Oh, dude. Yeah, she loved you, man. What did I met her somewhere? Did you? Yeah, I met her somewhere. I'm trying to think if it was at... a show of you?

1:10:48Yeah, probably. Was that a lot of your shows, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, she came to so many shows. I would be in fucking New Orleans or Seattle or Texas or somewhere, dude, and she would just show up in my green room. I'd be like, what are you doing here? She's like, oh, I hitchhiked down with so-and-so, and can you get me a hotel room? Really? I'm like, holy shit, mom. I'll sleep on the bus. You can have my room. Yeah, what was her spirit like? Tell us, if it's okay with you, let's just think about her for a second. Man, she was a hard to explain. She was a beautiful, beautiful soul. And I've never met anybody else like her, that's for sure.

1:11:35I mean, she was born in 1960 on Halloween. No way. Yeah, she's a Scorpio. So she was always kind of like psychic and always had this intuition. Always, even though she was an outlaw, she like never, you know, she skirted around the law in a lot of different times. But, yeah, she loved music and she loved art. She was an artist. She made a lot of art. She loved music, huh? Oh, yeah. I mean, I remember being a little kid, like a little kid, and she would like show me all these, you know. Do you know who this is? Oh, this is, you know, Led Zeppelin, or this is, you know, Pearl Jam, or this is a, she used to play, she did like backwards masking where she'd play the record backwards and find like secret messages in it.

1:12:28And she was playing me when I remember being just a little kid. She was playing Revolution No. 9 backwards, the Beatles' White Album, Showing me how it says Turn me on dead man You know And I'm just like a little Seven years old or something I was like mom What are you doing You know But yeah She was amazing man She She dealt with a lot of A lot of trauma in her life I mean I think she had a wild Upbringing anyways I mean when she was Is that a picture of her when she was young? Yeah Oh Yeah When she was like 16 years old Bro, go back to that one picture Look at what a curious But also kind of mysterious young lady she is Yeah, yeah But witchy too Like she's just something There's something different about her, man Just like she came from like another realm Just to audit humanity Yeah, I mean she definitely did She was tapped into some shit That we will never really know about And it was always crazy too Because like, man, she's got so many crazy stories And I would hear these stories And I wouldn't even believe them You know, she's like, oh, I was hanging out with those dudes from blow like down in like Miami and shit.

1:13:39They had, you know, they were breaking out lines this long and they were, you know, they had boats full of money. They didn't have anywhere else to put their money. So they just would buy a boat and just put it on this boat and park it in the marina like just with full of cash, you know. And then, you know, things just crazy things. And I would I would not believe her. Right. Because these Tories would be so insanely just like whatever, you know. And then, you know, like she used to hang out with like all the bands. She would get backstage. She's got, you know, I got pictures with her like Lynyrd Skynyrd and, you know, all these old bands.

1:14:16She said one of those bands, what was that band? 38 Special or some shit like that. One of these bands had a damn chimpanzee that would ride on roller skates and bring drinks around. Really? Who was it? That's what she said anyways And I'm like okay And then later on She seems like such a gypsy woman Yeah she was man Later on in life there would be somebody Show up one of her old girlfriends or something Debbie remember that time we were partying with the band And they had the chimpanzee And I'm like are you shitting me And it would always be like Some story that I did not believe But just crazy Crazy shit like that man She had a wild life And it makes sense that she would go out like that because she's not going to go out in some boring way.

1:15:02She's not going to get sick and drag it out. She's just going to. And that's the other thing about her is she would be there and like you're partying and you're hanging out. And then it's like, where's Deb? Like she just she would just leave without saying a word. And like that's how she left, you know, is how she always did. And it was, you know, now that I've had more time to process it and just been in a lot of therapy and stuff. And like, I mean, obviously it still tears me up. I'm like grieving a lot in my dreams. I wake up like suffocating in my sleep, and I just like, my mom comes to me, but it's never like a sweet, like beautiful thing.

1:15:39It's always like really painful. And I wake up, and I'm just like not breathing, and I'm like I'm crying so hard in my sleep that it just wakes me up, and my throat hurts, and my head is throbbing. And so I feel like I'm grieving a lot in my sleep or something. but um well she seems so whimsical it's almost like the only place you could even touch her is in your dreams in a way you know i'm saying like she's just seemed like such an ethereal type of creature you know it's even hearing you talk about it man um it's so wild that she loved music so much and that the thing that she created was a musician it's just kind of like, I don't know.

1:16:19It's kind of, it's pretty cool. Because sometimes our mothers go through a lot, I think, and we don't realize it. Because a lot of moms, they don't really share all that with you. I think - Well, I think that was a big part of her addiction and stuff was, let's see. I mean, she had a crazy upbringing anyways. My grandpa was always drinking, coming in, smashing up the house and just, it was just a wild place to grow up. And then, you know, she was with my, my dad, William Apostle, uh, and he died when he was 35. I was two years old. And, um, and that was only a couple of years after her sister was murdered.

1:17:09so her sister was her best friend and Mel who's now free you know on a fucking bass boat somewhere he killed my Aunt Carla with a 45 point blank closed case fucking you know um and my mom you know there was that and then a couple years later my dad died of an overdose or um I mean, that's what it was, but also there's a lot of, like, kind of word on the street is somebody actually gave him a hot shot, like on purpose. So, like, that's a crazy thing, too, is I just came across all these. My cousin Patrice, she just found all these old tapes that was my grandma apostles from her home phone back in the day.

1:18:03And it's the first time I ever heard my dad's voice on these tapes, you know. and it's just really crazy, the shit that they were all doing back in the day. Everybody was in and out of jail, all this crazy shit going down. Was it voicemails and stuff like that, leaving on a message machine? No, it was like my grandma had her own phone tapped, and every single phone call would just be recorded. Sorry, dude, that's just so bizarre. Yeah. And perfect for your life. And what a gift now that she had it in a weird way that you get to hear them. I can hear my dad calling his mom from jail or something, bitching about whatever, this and that, or I need some money in my commissary.

1:18:46I gave my shirt away to this one guy or whatever, because he was like that too. He was kind of this Robin Hood type. He would go in. My dad, he would go in in some store, Walmart or something. Back in the day, there was them hyper-color shirts. yeah and you'd blow on it and it would change colors yeah so he would go in and like steal a whole rack of those like just come out with the rack and put it in the car and then he would like drive around Lansing and like give them away to the homeless people and shit dude the fact that the homeless are out there reffing hyper colors yeah reffing hyper colors yeah those were the shit bro that's so wild but yeah I've always heard a lot of crazy stories about my dad too he was I mean they were all nuts dude just fucking wild bunch you know hillbillies and my dad like there's this one story where he worked at a cable company for a while and um ever even Eldridge or whatever I don't know it was some kind of but but they made cable like no I'm talking about like T for TV okay bet like so even when I was a little kid my grandma always had free cable it was just hooked up it was like wired in and my dad had did that when he was back when he was alive.

1:20:02And it's like he would, he climbed up the telephone pole or whatever, and he's got the case open. And then everybody on Fairfield Street came out of their house and was looking because their TV got shut off or something. And he's all up there on that pole. He's like, do you have HBO? And they're like, no. And then he's like, well, you will in a minute. Just go back inside, you know. So he hooked up everybody on Fairfield Street's cable for free. like after he worked for the company, you know? Yeah, dude. Shit like that. He was like Robin Hood, bro. Bro, we could use him now to take care of these flock cameras.

1:20:36That's what we could use him now for. Man, and one of the craziest things too is like that I'm coming to terms with and like learning and stuff like that is just hearing him talk about me and my brother and stuff. Like when I was growing up and he died when I was two, I always thought oh well he loved heroin more than me and I was kind of like well screw him I got my Terry that's my dad he raised me up he taught me everything I know how to play and everything and I always kind of had this chip on my shoulder about my real dad but it's just not the case I mean he did love me and my brother and he did try his best and he was trying to get his life straight and stuff and it turns out there's a pretty good chance that he was kind of murdered, you know?

1:21:25Like somebody shot him up with like, you know, a hot shot, is what they used to call it. Would people do that to people like they didn't like, who they knew were struggling with addiction sometimes? Is that a common thing? It's a way to murder somebody with, you know, it just looks like an overdose. That's a good point. And I think that was happening a lot back then. I mean, the guy who supposedly did it, Steve Rogers, he died the same exact way months or a year later. And I think his old lady Martha might have shot him up like that because she loved my dad, you know, or whatever. But I think there was a lot of that tit-for-tat stuff going on back then.

1:22:01And, yeah, it's crazy to learn about and hearing these tapes and stuff because there's also tapes of my mom calling my grandma Apostle, talking about what happened. My grandma Connie on my mom's side calling my grandma Betty on the Apostle side, calling and telling her what happened to her son. stuff like you know apparently he like collapsed in the driveway and like they you know steve rogers was like let's get out of here and you know martha's like hell no and and and took him inside and was trying to do cpr and everything and you know so hearing all this stuff is really i went down a bad rabbit hole of it when i found all these tapes and i started listening to everything and i just you know it's like i'm trying to put these puzzle pieces back together from 1995, you know?

1:22:51Oh, it's like a serial podcast. Yeah, I mean, it's just, but it's like my dad, you know? Yeah. You have to go down it. Was it a lot of hours of tapes? There's a lot of them on there, yeah. I haven't even listened to all of them yet. Wow. But there's also just like, I always thought the Lee side was crazy because my grandpa, for instance, he was an outlaw, race car driving, you know, bringing moonshine up to Michigan, crazy, just a crazy bunch. and he hung out with like Riff Raff from Lansing and stuff. His whole crew was just like, dude, crazy. There's this guy named Art Schaefer and he's still around.

1:23:30And Art Schaefer was like a klepto. And he would hang out with my grandpa. My grandpa hung out with like the outcasts. He would befriend these guys. There was this guy, Billy Struble, who was mentally challenged and there was Art Schaefer and there was Hillbilly Pete who had a big beard and he always had a big 40 wrapped up in a paper bag. He never really said much. But Billy Struble was always like helping my grandma mow the yard and stuff and he was always real proud. Guess who mowed the yard, Boomer? I did it. I did it. And I was like, hell yeah, Billy. He always smelled like coffee and like bad kind of stinky coffee.

1:24:08But then Art Schaefer, he's total klepto. And so there's this great story of him. My uncle worked at this place called Crystal Ray, and they had events there and stuff. And so they had all these, what was it, like turkeys or some ribs or something in the freezer. Was it like a convention center or like a place, like a hall people would go and have? Exactly, like a VFW kind of like a hall. They would have like bingo there. Weddings, maybe bingo. Weddings, yeah. Maybe, yeah. But my Uncle Billy, he worked at this place. And so, oh, they were steaks is what they were, big old steaks. And so they were going to have this event when they were going to cook all these steaks.

1:24:51And Art Schaefer was good friends with my Uncle Billy. And he found out there was all these steaks there. And he went and stole all them steaks. And so he had them. And my Uncle Billy, he said, the next day or something, he said, man, he was sitting there with Art. And he knew how to draw it out of him. he said man art man it's a nice day i mean i sure wish we had some of them steaks that come up missing man i'm sure they'd be good and he goes they are good you know he snitched on himself he said they are good bro my buddy antonio the other day he freaking he had some bad zins that he bought off the internet like like a bunch of cans of them so he went and sold them to like some gas station owner, like at some like kind of small gas station.

1:25:41Whoa. Knowing they were bad. But then fucking such an idiot. Two days later, he went to that gas station and bought a can of them because he was just going to buy Zins. He bought his own bad Zins back. Oh my gosh. Were they like expired or something? I don't know. They were just, I think they were bootleg when he bought off the internet or something. Oh, like fake? Yeah. I think he got them on Etsy or whatever. Golly. I'm like, bitch, that's what you fucking get for getting Zins off of Etsy. Yeah. Man, I was on those things for a while. I just kind of last couple of months or whatever. I got off them damn things.

1:26:11Dude, it's like we spend so much of our lives trying to get off of some of this stuff. Now I'm just on coffee. Yeah. And I quit smoking weed back in December. What made you want to quit? Dude, it was like kind of on my mind for a while, like wanting to quit. And then there was two like real big moments. First, what happened is I was leaving to go to the grocery store to go get some groceries and just, you know, get some shit to eat. Yeah. Dinner, lunch. Yeah. Just some stuff to put in the cupboards, you know. And I walk out to my truck and I'm just like this. I'm like, oh, shit. Like, you know, I don't have my vape pen on me, you know, my weed pen.

1:26:59You're just frisking yourself. I'm just like, yeah, exactly. And I'm like, oh, shit, I got to go back inside and get my pen. And I'm just like, in my mind, I'm like, really? Like, do you really? You can't go 20 minutes to the damn grocery store without weed? And so it just made me feel kind of weak or something, right? It's like, man, you can't do anything without this. You really need to smoke weed every five minutes? You know, and then. Just a perspective kind of. Yeah, just like maybe, you know, I was just going to the grocery store. I'll be right back. I can get it in 20 minutes. yeah you can't go 20 minutes without it well that's what's interesting that feeling of that moment like whenever I it's like if I can just let this moment pass for 30 seconds I'm gonna be fine yeah but this moment feels like I'm never gonna have that again yeah yeah yeah and it's just like I need it you know so so that was kind of weird and then uh the straw that really broke the camel's back was my son was sick.

1:27:55He had the flu or something. And he was just a little guy. River? River. Yeah. He was just a little guy. And the first time he really ever got sick, like, you know, he was throwing up. And it was like two days of this. And he was just like nursing and he was sleeping. And I was just like, okay, he's kind of seemed like he was in like a pretty good spot. And like, I was like, are you guys good? Like, I'm going to go upstairs and work on some music in the studio. And, um, he, she, my wife, yeah, he's sleeping, you know, he's good. He's just nursing and sleeping. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to go upstairs and I'm upstairs and I'm working on some music.

1:28:39Of course I'm hitting my pen, you know, and I'm working on music and playing on pro tools and shit. And then, uh, getting high, you know, and when I came back downstairs my son had gotten worse like he was like lethargic like we couldn't even get his attention we had to bring him to the hospital and that was the last time i smoked right there it was like i felt like such a you know my son is sick and i'm upstairs getting high like that's like yeah like a commercial almost it was just yeah it was just like man i'm done with this shit and i just like threw all my paraphernalia away and just i just quit right there fuck dude Yeah.

1:29:19Does it feel different now? Do you feel, have you, what are some things that you noticed since you quit smoking? Because you probably smoked it for a decent amount of your life. Dude, I smoked every day since I was like 11. I mean. Oh, damn, dude. Sorry. I mean, by the time I was 12, I was like scraping my bowl to get high. You know, I was like. Fuck, bro. You know, looking for roaches and shit. Yeah, it's just, I've always smoked weed. The only time I ever quit was when I was like 19 and I got DUI. They put me on probation and I couldn't smoke for that whole year. So I was just doing acid that whole year.

1:29:47yeah but um oh dude cocaine helped me quit vaping at one point oh that's a that's a different one but so it's you know i'm saying it's just the way that some things kind of work out yeah well like i said now i feel like i'm just drinking so much coffee it's like i gotta have something yeah yeah but i just i've always wondered about it too because I grew up, I mean, dude, when I was fucking 10 years old or something, like, dude, we were like sitting in a field, like huffing rubber cement until we heard mystery music in our head. Like I was like just a little baby, you know, like trying to get high.

1:30:28And, uh, you know, but like I said, by the time I was 12, I was full on stoner kid, you know, and, um, fuck and, and, and whatever. So it's like my whole life I had always, you know, had something like that. And so I've often wondered, like, what is life like without, like, drugs and getting high and drunk and stuff? Like, what would it be like to just raw dog life? Yeah. You know, like, and it's actually hard, you know, but it's not as hard as, like, I feel like drugs and shit cause a lot more problems than they medicate. I think a scenario like that with the kid would probably, yeah, it would make you have to about face.

1:31:19Maybe just even that moment. It's like, I just can't, I can't risk this. I can't risk being high in case something happens to myself. No, and also like I grew up in an environment that was very pro party. Yeah, I remember we talked about it last time we were podcasting. Yeah, you know, beers, music, people smoking weed, even the whole culture around the music I grew up with, not necessarily the bluegrass side, but, you know, the Beatles and the Grateful Dead and the, you know, Hendrix and all this, you know, LSD and trippy psychedelic stuff is all, it's all cool, you know. It is until it ain't.

1:31:57It's fun at first, and then when it starts to take over your life or it gets too much or you can't stop or you overdo it, it all starts fun and games until somebody gets hurt. What's something about being a dad that you think has been kind of surprising, dude? Has that been like a totally crazy adventure? Man, it's the best. I met your son in Austin. Remember, dude, I met your son and the governor of Maine. that lady janet mills dude she was rocking bro yeah that was a good hang i'm glad you swung by she was rocking and they had that pimento cheese spread over there dude who is that the some some i mean oh yeah she's my business manager she's the no joke uh since she's might be the nicest woman that i've ever met she is just like being helpful like she just like wants to be helpful yeah you know yeah that's what she does i mean she helps me with everything on the daily everything she's like my business manager but i also you know she helps me like with like my doctor's appointments and like my you know every single thing she helps me with and my manager bill yeah she was so nice man and then we went to your show and stephen wilson jr was there dude and i got to meet his son which was awesome oh wow his son was there yeah his son was there and his wife was there um so that was just great that was so cool dude and i got to see you guys meet you guys I think you guys had kind of passed, but had never gotten to meet each other.

1:33:22Yeah, that's where I met him. That was what? Was it Farm Aid? No. It was Willie's 4th of July picnic. Yeah. And Willie's kids were there. Micah I got to meet and his wife I got to meet too. She was - Yeah, Micah's the shit, man. Yeah, dude. I think we're going to try to go to Farm Aid. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You should, man. But yeah, dude, that was so great. Just seeing you and Steven Wilson Jr. get to meet each other was cool, dude. Yeah, he's an interesting cat. And he's got such a cool style. I think he's found his own sound, and it's cool because he doesn't sound like anything else that I've ever really heard.

1:33:58His guitar playing is really interesting and really cool. See, he feels like a little bit of a time traveler or something, but I don't know where he's coming from or where he's going, but it's kind of nice to see him pass by. He has some sunglasses, too, that he just mailed me a pair of. like kind of, I think he kind of came out or like maybe did like a collab on some sunglasses, but pretty cool stuff. Um, yeah. What's something about, about being a dad that kind of surprised you or does it feel like a surprise at all? Maybe like to somebody like you who like has had so many types of feelings and like kind of traversed so many different moments of highs and lows of life that, um, that that's not as big of a surprise.

1:34:37It just sort of feels like, uh, I think life moving on. So the big one for me, I mean, besides just. I would fucking rip your esophagus out for him if I had to. Like just feeling that about somebody like I would kill someone for him if I had to. Or like, you know, like I love him that much that I would fillet you right here. You know, and that's awesome. That's crazy to feel that love. So it's like a new kind of love? Does it feel like a – because that's interesting. Truly, like I would take bullets. You know what I mean? I believe you. Yeah, and I've just never felt that before. It's like I would die for him.

1:35:24I would do anything to protect him. It's just a crazy feeling. Does it feel like a part of you or does it feel like a new – does that question make any sense kind of to you? Yeah, he does feel like a part of me. Actually, what's so funny is the other day he had this little booger, and I picked his nose, and I grabbed this little booger, and I was like, wait a minute. I have boogers. He came from my balls. Now he has boogers. This is still sort of my booger. You know what I mean? Yeah, dude. This booger was once in my balls. Yeah. I'm like, wow. That's so wild to me. Yeah. Yes. And then I like rolled it and I like flicked it.

1:36:13Fuck yeah, dude. You know? Yeah, I love that, bro. Fuck a kidney stone, bro. We on some new shit. Yeah. Yeah. But one of the beautiful things about. Yeah, my fucking boogers aren't even just mine. Yeah. And now, yeah, he's got everything. Shit, piss, puke, boogers, and tears and everything. but man one of the big like things that I felt like a shift in is that you know music has always been like the most important thing to me it's like been my the way I've survived it's been my social currency it's been my survival tactic it's been my coping mechanism it's been everything and it's always been the most important thing to me my guitar is my best friend there's nothing that comes before that, you know, and I used to be so worried about the music, like even just on stage where I'm so concerned about playing well, singing well, performing good, probably because I don't want to go back to where I was, like being poor and not having food and just living in squalor and kind of having a shitty life and, you know.

1:37:26You had the uncertainty of it all? Yeah and just like you know When you don't have food it sucks you know So I think ever since I started Like making money playing music Or just making a living off of it You know like I'm like oh man I have to Every time I step on stage I have to just Kill it otherwise like I could go back to that Right like the pendulum is there Every single time Dude I feel that same way And it's like I'm always like running away from I'm never like running towards success It's like away from poverty And I'm scared That this is all going to go away And I'm going to end up in some trailer smoking foils again Or whatever And so I have Strangled the life out of the music Before because I've been so concerned About playing well that I'm playing hard And I'm thinking and I'm like trying to lead the band And I'm just like all this you know crazy stuff And it's like man That's not really the way to go about it And at the end of the day We're just playing music here It's not the end of the fucking world If you play a wrong note or you forget a couple lyrics Or whatever Dude, nobody cares, nobody's gonna get hurt It's not a big deal But to me it is If I have a bad gig, dude, I'll be depressed for days Or something That just happened recently, really Dude, who's your therapist, man?

1:38:50I want your therapist Well, her name is Dr. Kahneman yeah she's in nashville is she yeah dude bush because some of the stuff you're saying it's like exactly like i've just felt sometimes like in my life dude it's like i feel like like one little thing goes wrong it's like it's gonna like everything depends on me it's not true but it's like and it's not everything does like like um like i'm some kind of god or something but it's just like well dude you're famous man but it's like but it's like every it's like nothing everything has to go this way or i i can't even explain it exactly but everything feels like a lot of pressure you know yeah yeah because you got all these eyes on you and everyone well i have my own eyes on me it's like my i won't like my i fucking i'm under my own microscope you know yeah but it's like yeah it's just like um i don't know i just i don't give myself enough room to breathe in there where it's like hey man we're having a good time it's kind of we're having a comedy, you know, it's like we're doing, it's like we're making laughter.

1:39:50And at a certain point, sometimes it's like, you almost start to lose some of the laughter because you're, it's, it's like, you're squeezing it too tight. Yeah. Everything feels so life or death kind of, but it's always felt like sometimes you have to allow yourself to bomb, you know, to have those, like to have those better shows. They can't always, they can't all be zingers, you know, and you have to just realize that. And so that's kind of the beautiful thing about it is like, when you're truly improvising, you're not always going to do it. Like the ball team doesn't always win, you know? Like the Red Sox don't always win, even though they just did like 14 in a row or something.

1:40:25Yeah, yeah. And I just went to like, yeah, one of my first ball games out there. That was pretty cool. Did you? Yeah. Who was pitching, do you remember? No, I don't know. I don't know enough about that stuff. But I brought my son to that. It was cool. But, man, what I was getting at is like when I had my son, when he was like brand new and then I started going to play gigs again, like all of a sudden it's like, I don't give a shit if I play bad. I don't give a shit if I miss a few words. And instead of like strangling the music, all of a sudden I'm singing and playing. As long as they're okay, I'm free to go play and sing.

1:41:03As long as Bear and River and Allie are good, man, then I can go play and sing, right? And I'm not only strangling the music less, which in turn, I'm playing much better and singing better. I'm singing from a place of joy in my belly. I'm singing, and I'm playing guitar free from the restrictions of fear. And I'm truly just letting it go. Yeah, I'm not playing out of desperation. Yeah, and I'm actually playing because it's fun and I get to go play. And I've just realized that I mean I play and sing much better now And I always also Every time I'm playing I have this little cosmic listener That I can just look out in the crowd But I can picture River's face Wherever he is in the world And I can sing to him He's my little guy Really?

1:41:55Yeah That's cool dude When I walk out the front door of my house To go get on the bus and go on tour Now I have a reason to provide for my family. I'm on an actual mission, not just to go stoke my ego and to go play and try to whatever, keep doing this music thing that has always been the most important thing. It's like, no, it's not the most important thing. I am a musician. That's what I do. That's my job. But it's not the biggest thing in life. My family is. And that actually makes me play better because I'm not squeezing it so hard. And now I'm actually loosey-goosey. It's like when you look at a cheetah run, if you watch it on slow-mo or something, it's like they start, and the faster they run, the looser they get, right?

1:42:45I mean, they start looking like a spaghetti noodle. And that's kind of how I feel my life is going right now. It's like I'm looser now, and I'm just kind of more flowing with it. And I attribute so much of that to my son because he's the only thing that is really, truly life or death important to me. I mean, all of this stuff is important. My music is important. My fans are important. My career is important. So what a gift he is. Yeah. But it's not as important as River. Yeah. So it's nice to have something that trumps the music that's more important than that. you know do you think you needed something like that when you when you're looking at your life now like you're even able to see that because dude as you're saying that billy it's like it's kind of funny because it's like yeah man like sometimes you get tired yeah and some of the stuff you made me it just kind of brought up some emotions i think there's nice there's something nice i always feel something when a dad talks about his son you know i think there's something about that that like you know all like i don't know it makes me feel something i hear that I absolutely love it.

1:43:54You know, before I came over here today, I was working in the garage. I'm building him a little table. Like yesterday I went to Home Depot and I got like a bunch of lumber and stuff. And I'm building him this little table for him to play with his monster trucks on. And there's like this big ramp that comes down and they do a loop. And I saw this. Me and him watch these YouTube videos. It's called Our Time for Adventures or something. it's like this guy that just basically plays with these toy monster trucks he's like let's go racing and like River loves it and dude I love it it's like I sit there and watch him and you know he just races these monster trucks and so I'm building him like one of those tables like that and that's what I was doing before I came over here this morning is like working on this like table for my son and you know just stuff like that it's like like yeah like that you know like that table.

1:44:50Oh, sweet. And it has these little things. He lets go of them and then they ramp. So I'm building one of these for my little dude so he can have a cool table to play with his monster trucks on. He loves monster trucks right now. Oh, it's so fun, dude. Yeah. Do you almost get to have some childhood moments that you didn't get to have through your son, but you almost have them in reverse psychology? Does that make any sense to you? Yeah, you get to view the world again through these kind of more innocent eyes and more curiosity, which is an amazing thing, you know, because I grew up really quick.

1:45:26I mean, I, like I said, by the time I was 13, I was, I moved out of my mom's house and I was, you know, I look at a 13 year old kid right now and I'm like, oh my God, I was like homeless at that time. Yeah. Sleeping on couches, you know, like, holy shit. I didn't really have, I mean, I had a good childhood for a little bit, but then it got, things got kind of rough and feel like a lot of my child, I had to grow up too quick. Yeah. You know? Yeah, dude. That's a great way to put it. So yeah, I just, man, I love playing with, with my son and like just, you know, his little toys and watching like cars or whatever.

1:45:57Like he loves Lightning McQueen. Yeah. And dude, I've watched that movie so many damn times. It's so good. That's kind of nice that you get to do that and go back and have those moments. Yeah, dude. Even when I think back when I was like 14, I moved out and live with some other people. But before that, for like about a year, I would go to school each day and I'd stay with like a different friend's family or something. So it would be like, I'd be at school and all day, it's funny, I didn't even think about this until just now, all day, part of my day was, how am I gonna convince somebody at school today to let me stay over there?

1:46:28So sometimes it would get to like fourth period and shit, it'd be like, fuck, I've already exhausted a couple of options, dude. I'm gonna fucking have to stay with somebody I don't even know, dude. and sometimes it would get a little weird bro like there was like two days two nights i stayed with one of our janitor's families we had a vice principal used to sleep in his trunk the trunk of his car during fucking recess and i'd go over there i'd go over there and i seen him get in there a couple times so one time i mentioned that to him like a little bit of like not like bartering like trying to like threaten to snitch but a little bit of me was like dude i fucking know what's going like i don't i didn't know if he was smoking i didn't know what he was doing But just the fact that he's over there sleeping in his trunk, I think he didn't want that information out there.

1:47:12And his wife worked at the other school and said, let me go stay over there for a couple nights. But I'd always remember I'd have this big backpack because it had all my stuff in it. Like it had my change of clothes. It had my toothbrush. It just had my stuff. So it was like, you know, I forget about sometimes. I was like, I think you're right. Just growing up quick. It's like the other stuff that you're thinking about that other kids aren't thinking about probably, you know. In a lot of ways, I'm grateful for it. Yeah. You know? Do you think, like, so say you're a dad that doesn't get to be there as much as he wants for his son, right?

1:47:44Like, maybe you, like, heard from listening to some of your dad's, like, tapes and stuff from the voicemails and the conversations he had with your grandmother, right? Just, this is all kind of a hypothetical thing. Or say you're the kid that didn't get some of the experience he needed, right? Or some of the nurturing and, like, or just, like, the connection that he needed, right? do you think that like as a dad now like you think it matters which side of that equation you're on or either side you can get the healing from one side you know i'm saying like is there a little bit of healing you think for like the kids like a young person out there who maybe didn't get some stuff if they are able to apply themselves as a dad do you think that there's some healing like in some of that in the dad side of it does it make any sense sorry i'm kind of yelling i feel like some of that stuff gets me kind of animated.

1:48:31No, man, I think like... Does it make sense to you when I'm asking you? Yeah, and I think I am trying to like maybe heal some of my childhood through being his father. Yeah. And I think as he gets older and older, I will be able to do that, you know. Just I want to like be present. That's part of the, you know, another part of the reason I quit smoking dope and stuff, you know. Yeah. I just want to be there. I want to be there. He looks at me with these big clear eyes. I want to be clear, you know. But yeah, it's a way for me to kind of redo my childhood and stuff Now, there's this other thing that I have It's like this experiential density Because of the hardships that I've been through And even as a young man, teenager, young kid I am able to have this perspective that I feel like a lot of people don't have and I have this kind of like terminal uniqueness in a way that's like I never feel like anybody would know what it's like to be in my shoes.

1:49:39Like what I've been through, what I've seen, the life I've had, you know, the trauma that I've dealt with, you know, because it's much more than just, you know, having parents that were on drugs. I mean, I was molested when I was a child. I was fucking sodomized before I was seven years old or something. Damn. And so there's a lot of shit. And I live on this island that I feel like nobody would ever understand what it's like to be me, right? And so I think that's more of the negative side of it. But the experiential density, I think, is kind of like I can use it as a positive thing where it's like, I have this perspective, like most people, like, you know, or not most people, but a lot of people, you know, they grow up and their parents feed them and they buy them a car when they're 16 and everything's fine.

1:50:34And like, man, I didn't have any of that shit. You know what I mean? I had to figure it out for myself. And I have this perspective, um, that a lot of people, you know, by the time I was 15 or whatever, I was more of an adult than my teachers. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so one thing that I've kind of considered at one point was My wife and I, we were looking at houses in Nashville And we ended up just staying where we are And we're going to like do a renovation and stuff But we were kind of house shopping a little bit And, you know, I was looking around at these different houses And they're all like, I didn't want any of them Because they're all like on an acre and a half And they're like tall and skinny And it's like, man, I want to live in the country You know I don't like this shit Yeah I don't want to live In a bunch of stairs That's just Some of those houses Feel like a bunch of stairs Yeah It's like where are you I'm on the stairs Yeah like you look out the window And you can see your neighbor You know Washing their dog Or whatever Yeah And it's like But As we were looking At these houses And I was looking at You know There was a couple That we were kind of Thinking about And I was like Man Is my son Gonna be A kid that grows up In a house like this you know what I mean cause I grew up in a moldy meth house you know that didn't even have a furnace you know we just had like a wood stove that always went out yeah dude our living room was fucking sinking dude we'd have to have my mom's boyfriend would come and spray like this kind of foam under the fucking carpet to kind of even it out oh yeah I think our whole side of our apartment complex was sinking yeah but no judgment oh you told me about your balcony oh yeah people fucking kept stealing it yeah the balcony would just fall off or whatever what the heck dude people would kept stealing it bring that picture up one more time dude right there that's the balcony yeah it was they put christmas lights where it used to be like bitch we know there was a balcony there's still a door there what the heck dude we would come home and somebody would have stolen our fence because there was a front gate in front of the apartment, and then there was a balcony, and people would steal it.

1:52:49How do you steal a balcony, and for what reason? For the wood. Just for the wood? Yeah, for the textiles. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, and they would use it down at their joint or whatever. That's such a strange thing to steal. Yeah. A balcony? But I think it was easily like, I think we didn't hammer it in good or whatever. They could just remove it really easily. Yeah, I guess, dude. Throw it on a flatbed and get the hell out of there? Not a flatbed. People would fucking just run down the street with it on their backs. Because three blocks away, somebody would have a new baby crib or something made out of half of it.

1:53:23Dude, we fucking, all that neighborhood was bananas, dude. Bruh. It was fucking bananas. I'd like to go check that place out sometime, dude. Your hometown? It was cool, dude. That'd be sick. And I'll have to go up to Ionia sometime, too. We're close. We wanted to be able to go up today and see some of it. But next summer, we're going to have a better plan, and I'm just going to come and do a trip in Michigan. I want to go to Charlevoix so bad. What about Charlevoix is drawing you there? I just heard about it. It sounds kind of magical. I want to go to Traverse City. Traverse City, I understand.

1:53:55But, like, I mean, Charlevoix, too, it's a nice place. Don't get me wrong. But I just feel like Traverse City would be, like, the more destination. Charlevoix is, like, a smaller place, like, outside of Traverse City. There's, like, water there and marinas and stuff like that. I guess I just can't imagine it. Dude, we went into Lake Michigan yesterday. Dude, we took a ride on a boat in the Chicago River. And dude, it was one of the coolest things I've ever seen through the city. Oh, wow. If you ever get a chance, honestly, it really is. Because I just couldn't even believe it. And I was like, oh, I've never gotten to go on a boat through a middle of a city.

1:54:32I know you can do that here in Grand Rapids, but it's just like Chicago is a bigger entity there. Kind of like reminds me of Amsterdam or something. and there's all those little canals. Oh, yeah, Venice and Amsterdam. Oh, yeah, Amsterdam has a ton of them. Dude, what about, what's that island place with the dunes? You ever seen that place? Sleeping Bear Dunes. Is that cool? It's very cool. Yeah, dude, I heard about that. Yeah, it's a beautiful place. Michigan has some, like, damn near tropical, like, paradise. Like, look at that blue water, dude. There's not water like that anywhere, and it's fresh water.

1:55:03Bro, that's what I'm saying. Like, even when I got into Lake Michigan, yeah, in Chicago, August, like we went off the coast a little bit. I never knew it existed like that. Like I knew the lakes were there. Yeah, we got to keep it a secret, bro. We shouldn't even talk about this. I don't want any more people. No, some stuff, dude, you want to keep it a secret. But we went to that Field of Dreams baseball game. Where was that at? Dyersville, Iowa. You ever seen that movie? It's an old movie. Yeah. Yeah. So we went to Dyersville. Oh, I saw a video. You ate a bunch of peanuts. Oh, yeah, dude. I ate like six bags of peanuts.

1:55:36I ate almost 400, probably 400 peanuts. Well, each peanut has like two, sometimes three. So you might've ate 800 and something. I don't even think about that. You know what I mean? Yeah, I didn't even - Because each peanut has two nuts in it. So if you ate 420, you might 880 peanuts. Fuck yeah. I didn't even think of that. It's fucking close to a thousand, bud. Damn. Fuck yeah. You know what I'm saying, bro? Dude, next time break a thousand. Yeah, you right. You right. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to run for mayor of Chicago now, dude. If I can eat that many peanuts at a ball game. Dude, the guy came over and had to sweep up the nutshells like four times, dude.

1:56:14There were fucking birds overhead. Like fucking they were pissed that we created so much like probably usable material for Ness and shit. But it was that. Yeah, dude, that was just a great experience. I just love them. I don't know. I love the Midwest. I love the people. I've always heard about. Yeah, there's some of the players. They come out of the corn? Came out of the corn. No way. Yeah. One came out of the closet, I think. Dude, one day, yeah. That's epic. And you even, they had a corn like built up to walk up to it and stuff like that. And I got to meet Patrick Renna, the guy from Sandlot.

1:56:46He was the great Hambino in Sandlot. And then just got to see some of the players. They had, let me think, Joe Maurer, Scott Rowland, Lee Smith, the Hawk, Andre Dawson. Joe Ryan was there. Yeah. And the twins. they gave me a new hat too nice I see you've been rocking that Detroit hat pretty heavy dude yeah well because one of the nicest or like one of the dopest squads that ever came out to see me like guys that ever came to see me play were some of the Tigers guys came one time to see a game Rodgers Scooble Carpenter just some of their different pitchers came out and it was just awesome dude and they like were just it was like probably two or three years ago and they were younger and just like their energy was like they were just fucking like ecstatic but they were all like really nice guys so that was just a good experience dude oh it's sick to see that old english d out there and then here i am in michigan which is kind of crazy like the things you kind of like maybe i didn't know that i would be here today you know yeah and getting to spend time with you dude um dude thanks so much for just kind of thinking about some stuff i uh i want to ask you i want you to see if you can tell me this story i know you got to meet bob dylan right can you tell me that story or do you not want to tell it?

1:58:04Sure. You can? Yeah. Um, yeah. So we were on tour with, uh, Willie and Bob and this is one of my favorite stories, dude. Yeah. And you know, I don't take this for granted, you know, I remember when the, when the thing first came to me that the offer, it was kind of put to me in a way that was like okay well we could go do our own tour and like probably make a lot more money or we could go on this tour as an opener but we're going to be able to you know go tour with Bob Dylan and Willie and it's like dude we're going with Bob and Willie are you kidding me? of course and so every night we played with them me and the band would like finish our set we would hurry up and go back to the green room like you know have a snack or whatever and then like get right back out there get our good seats sometimes just on the side of the stage and watch Bob Dylan play and then watch Willie play you know and so it was just every night was just like we watched them intently every night because like I said we We do not take this for granted.

1:59:21So actually, I need to rewind a bit to tell you the story about Bob Dylan. Somebody had told me, T-Bone Burnett actually told me. He lives in Nashville. Yeah. He's friends with Jeff Bridges. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love Jeff. Dude, and Crazy Heart. Yeah. Such a good movie. Yeah. But so T-Bone's like, hey, man, Bob Dylan's like a big fan of yours. He keeps bringing you up and stuff. And I'm like, what? You know, that's crazy. And then my manager says that one of Bob's people, one of his managers or something, kind of just told my manager, Bill, the best way to get a hold of Bob is to write him a letter.

2:00:00He likes letters. So I was going to write him a letter,

2:00:08and I remember I was staying at St. Cecilia in Austin, and I walked in the room, and they had this really great paper there, like this stock paper. And I thought, well, this will be cool because it's from like a hip hotel and it's nice paper. I'm going to take this paper. This is what I'm going to write my letter to Bob Dylan on. And then I never did. A whole year passed. I procrastinated. And then the next year passed. We're doing Austin City Limits or something. I was in Austin again. And I stayed at the St. Cecilia again. And I walked in that same room I stayed in last time. And I saw that paper again a year later.

2:00:43And I go, man, screw this. And I just set my backpack down in my luggage. I grabbed that paper and I went straight up to the cafe and I had a coffee and some eggs. And I sat there and wrote Bob Dylan a letter, just basically, you know, saying thank you and just thank you, you know, and telling him about how I, you know, love the way Doc Watson used to play his songs and stuff. And so after that, you know, I had heard that Bob was excited about this letter that he got from me and stuff. And I was like, okay, well, that's, you know, I don't know what to believe, right? And we get on that tour. We play like a couple gigs.

2:01:24And we're opening for Bob. And then one night after our set, before Bob goes on stage, well, that was when I sat in. Actually, the first time I met him was at the Hollywood Bowl. And I was standing backstage after his set. And my security guy Jim was like Here stand over here And I just thought like I was in the way Like they were going to move some road cases or something But no Bob was coming off stage In this huge north face parka And right as he was walking by Somebody was like Hey that was a great set Billy And he stopped in his tracks And he was like Billy And he walked right up to me And he was like man thank you for the letter And I was like man thank you Bob for the music And he shook my hand Oh, yeah.

2:02:13And. With his hand. Yeah, with Bob Dylan's hand. He shook my hand. And my hand is like tingling right now just talking about it. Every time I talk about this story, my hand starts tingling. That whole night. And it's like vibrating. I shook his hand and I looked him in the eyes and he said, you know, thanks for the letter. And I told him, thank you for the music. And, and then he walked away. Did he have a good hand? Yeah, it was a nice little hand. And, and that whole night, my hand was just tingly. Like it was, it was like I touched a magic crystal or something, you know? and so now every time I tell this story it does the same thing but later that night I was like it's either like some crazy beautiful energy like he's just got this magic or it's like you know some leftover Ben Gay or something is what I was thinking um yeah but then so like the next night on tour or yeah a night or two later we played our set and I'm sitting in the green room and then uh I was like smoking a bowl or something And this lady walked in and she's like Bob wants you to play with him tonight And I was like what?

2:03:32And she's like are you too stoned? And I was like no I'm not stoned enough You know So I'm like okay Fuck you guys it's happening Bob asked me to sit in So I'm like walking out to my bus Because I know his band they all wear black and stuff So I was like I got a black shirt I can put my hair in a ponytail, get a little bit more classy. Blacking up a little, me darking out. Yeah, to get a little bit more classy than whatever T-shirt I had on. Right. I'm fixing to play with Bob Dylan. I want to go put a nice shirt on. Yeah, yeah. And pull my hair back. And as I was walking out to the bus, I saw him.

2:04:09He was walking right toward me. And he just came up to me, and he said, you know, let's do all along the watchtower. He's like, just sing the first verse and second verse, and he'd play after the second verse. And then he walked away. He didn't say hi. He didn't say thanks for playing or nothing. He said, let's do the Watchtower, play after the second verse. Just information and stuff. And then on his way to the stage. And I was like, oh, man, this guy means business. Yeah. So I went to my bus. I got my nice digs on. Type shit. And then I was texting my mom and dad. And I called my mom. I was like, you're not going to believe this.

2:04:50What did she say? She was always over the moon about stuff like that. She called me her dream weaver is what she called. She's like, who are you going to play with next? Because so many of her heroes I had met and played with. Mom, I just met Eddie Vedder. Mom, you're not going to believe this. David Grisman or Del McCurry and all this stuff. Fleetwood Mac? More recently. Stevie Nicks? I've never met her. That would be a crazy collab with you guys. Yeah. Anyway, the one, sorry. Yeah, I was like, I'm getting ready to go play with Bob Dylan. She's like, what the fuck? Like, who are you? Who do you think you are?

2:05:38It's like, I don't know. He just asked me to play. So yeah, man. I'm your son. So yeah, I go out there and it was amazing. I mean, we played. The cool thing about that too is that whole tour, That was my favorite song that they were doing. I mean, I love All Along the Watchtower and, of course, Jimi Hendrix's version, but they had this cool arrangement of it, and it was like such a hip version of it, and that was my favorite tune that they were doing, and that's the one he asked me to play on. It's just like, wow, you know? So, yeah, he sang, sang the second verse, and then he kind of looked over at me and I played, passed it back to him.

2:06:16We had a little musical conversation, and then that was it, man. I played with Bob Dylan. It was like, holy shit. And I walked off stage, and I go in the green room, and my whole band is so excited. They're making toasts and shit. Yeah, let's go. Especially my bass player, Royal, has just been on a huge Bob Dylan kick the last couple years. We just couldn't believe this happened, really. Shout out Royal. Yeah. So then we're sitting in the green room, and we're all just like, oh, my God, that was amazing. And then Jim, my security guy, he comes in and he says, hey, somebody wants to say hi. And in my green room walks Bob Dylan.

2:07:01Dang. And he sucked the oxygen out of the room. It was like everybody just like fell silent and like couldn't breathe. And then he was like, man, you know, thanks for playing. Like that was awesome. And I go, man, thank you for having me, man. I'm such an honor to play with you, you know. And I was like, I want to introduce you to my band. This is Royal and Billy and stuff like that. And then he just turned around and walked away. I was like, what? No way. Dude. And then a couple days after. He's a busy Bob, dude. Dude, he dipped. He was like, and then just left. And we loved it. I thought it was amazing.

2:07:44Oh, it's fucking almost. Bro, it's almost. It's even better. That's the most lower shit you could do Dude he just literally I was like I want to introduce you to my band And he just turned around and left I was like wow What a badass And then so A couple nights later He sent me a message

2:08:09Through one of his managers And it just said Thanks for playing I think you're great And he said Like my friend Jerry Lee told me a long time ago He said you're going to be around For a long long time And I just Man I like was in the back of my bus Like reading this and just Cried you know I mean this is Bob Dylan kind of Patting me on the back First of all it's unbelievable dude It's such a great story it's like I can feel it dude It's almost like I'm like Yeah dude Well I know one of the craziest things Is that the few interactions I had with him which was like three or four over the course of a couple days and I talked to him and I looked at his face and I spoke directly to him and I looked in his eyes I can't picture his face I can't picture, I didn't see the skin when I think about him, what he looked like all I see is these deep oceans of blue in these deep concerning eyes and this white light behind them.

2:09:24That's what I picture when I think about what did Bob Dylan look like to me? All I can see is the deepest, bluest eyes with the most concerning emotion in them and then this aura of white light. That's what Bob looks like to me in my memory. Yeah. I can't remember his face. Yeah, like it's almost something that's like maybe from another realm or something. I think God's concern shows up in our eyes, I think. So maybe he just has a lot of concern from the other side. Yeah, and it's not a paranoid concern. It's more of like a compassion and a love from an elder. You know? Yeah, maybe like a kind of semi-aggressive intrigue kind of.

2:10:18Like some kind of musical grandpa, you know? Yeah, dude, Bob Dylan, bro. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it's a trip. And then like a little while after that, I got to play and make music in the studio with Edgar Winter. And he was like one of my mom's favorites, you know, him and John. Edgar Winter and who else? Yeah, well, Johnny Winter, his brother. Johnny Winter? Bring up a picture on these guys. Let me get a gander at him. Yeah, they look like... Oh, wow. They kind of look like Targaryens, man. They're albino. Yeah. He looks like Sia a little bit. You know who Sia is? No. But Johnny Winter is one of the best guitar players to ever live, man.

2:11:02Oh, my gosh, bro. He's one of the best. Little, skinny, scrawny albino dude. And he played with Muddy Waters and all sorts of shit. He was one of the best blues players ever, man. Played with the slide Played you know Acoustic, everything But he's the man And then Edgar Winner You know you've heard like Free ride Take You know that's his jam And then you remember So Edgar Winner had a huge hit That was an instrumental song Called Frankenstein You ever remember that Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da That's Edgar Winner man And the cool thing about that Did you get to talk to him?

2:11:43Yeah, no, he's actually become a good friend of mine. He came and played with us at Bridgestone Arena when we played, and we were in the studio for like a day or two working on some stuff for his record that's going to come out at some point. But yeah, Edgar Winter is one of the sweetest, sweetest people. Wow. And Johnny's alive too? He passed away. Oh. When did he pass away? Like 2012 or maybe a little bit after that? 2014 Yeah, 2014 Oh, they're Switz, huh? Well, no, that's where he died is in Switzerland They're from Texas Oh, yeah Yeah Yeah, he was on the road Wow I think he died in his hotel room Oh Yeah That was my mom's dog right there Really?

2:12:36So she loved him. I'm going to have to listen to some of their music today in honor of her, dude, on our ride later. Yeah, listen to just the self-titled Johnny Winter album from 1969. And then for Edgar Winter, listen to White Trash. It's just some of the funkiest stuff you're ever going to hear, man. They got this one tune. It's the first track on the record called Give It Everything You Got. And I remember I was tripping hard on acid one day, And I was down by the river And I slipped and I fell down this mud bank And I landed like waist deep in the water And I was just splashing It was also October in Michigan It was kind of cold Yeah But I got out and I climbed back up the bank And I was soaking wet but I didn't feel wet Oh yeah Because I just, I think my brain was wet Oh yeah, because you were having a good time Yeah, I was already tripping And so I walk home and I'm sopping And you know, I walk in my mom's back door And she's like What are you doing?

2:13:35I was like, well, I took some acid, and I went and fell in the river. She's like, oh, you're on acid. And she drops the needle on Give It Everything You Got. She put that record on for me to hear. And I just sat there in front of the speakers, and I listened to that. And when the song ended, I moved the needle back over, and I listened to it again, and I listened to it again. I was in this loop of Give It Everything You Got. There's these crazy saxophone solos, and everything's pan stereo, and it goes right to left, and it's just, dude, it's so good. That whole album is good. And there's a couple tunes on there, one called Fly Away that I can hardly listen to without crying because it was one of my mom's songs, and it really reminds me of her.

2:14:15That's the Johnny Winter's album? That's the Edgar Winter album called White Trash. White Trash. Yeah, and then the Johnny Winter record, it's just called Johnny Winter. Dude, what a crazy pair of brothers they must have been. Couldn't you even imagine? Oh, man, they were really musical. And Edgar, he's amazing. I wish I would have been able to meet Johnny, but I've listened to a lot of his music, and I just love him dearly. I mean, gosh. So I feel so lucky to have been exposed to good music like that from my parents. As far as I'm concerned, man, they listen to good music, and they taught me about it.

2:14:55So that's the thing. When I was in middle school and stuff, I don't know what kids were listening to back then. I wasn't listening to that. I was listening to John Lennon or whatever. My teachers always thought I was kind of like, who is this kid, man? He's wearing a Jim Morrison t-shirt. What's he doing? How does this end? I'm going to the library trying to find books about Janis Joplin and stuff, and I'm just in sixth grade or whatever. Some of my teachers thought that was really cool. The ones that were around in the 60s and stuff, the older cats. Yeah. I used to get like, I almost want to say like special treatment or something because of that.

2:15:34Because like some of my teachers that were old hippies, they were like, man, this cat's sick. Oh, dude, yeah. If your teacher, if you're into something that they're into kind of, or they think there's something a little bit different about you, I think it makes sense that a teacher would be like, oh, this kid's cool. There's something going on with this kid. I'm curious to see. Like we had this teacher named Miss Plesch, and she was cool, man. She was like our poetry teacher, and we'd go in there, and it was like all the misfit kind of kids were in there. and you'd have like you know people that just wore extra lipstick on different parts of their face and shit and like um and uh and we go in there and we got to write poetry and it was kind of this weird group like well not weird but it was just like this like um i don't know it was this group of it was just different than the norm and it was like a place where it felt like okay i could share how i feel and there wasn't any other place in school really to do that like in regular school you know like unless you were talking like one-on-one with a buddy but just like to go in there and write poems and like think of things together and you go in there and like they'd have a lot of like some some kids that were in kind of like i don't want to say school shooty garb or whatever but just like you know we'd have like kids wearing like uh i'm trying to think of um it'd be like sometimes like trench cody or less like big combat boots and yeah combat boots dude we'd have like um doc martens right and the higher the doc martin like kind of the like it got to a level where it was like normal kind of wild and then just like and then like someone was like kind of perverse or whatever i think a little bit like way up to the thigh yeah like way up to the cooter even you know it was like damn dude you definitely ain't no hood hopper yeah yeah we ain't no ranker but it would just be like i don't know and you'd see like they'd have like a hippie girl in there who never wore a bra and that would make you fucking go to class every single day bro because you could just if you closed your eyes you could just hear her tits you know like it was just that age remember when you had that much hormones when you were in high school and if you closed your eyes you could just hear somebody's tits dude yeah fuck yeah they sound so soft oh welcome to ohio brother yeah i just feel like that's the most Ohio thing ever.

2:17:48Um, dude, thanks so much, man. I'm excited about your new album. Can you just tell me like one or two things about it? I, I've read somewhere that it's a, um, that it's in honor of your mother. Yeah. Um, you know, I think a lot of it, you know, I was writing when shortly after she passed and stuff. So yeah, it's kind of dedicated to her and, um, kind of an interesting thing. I mean, I, I, I kept wanting to call it so much for goodbyes. And I just, I was thinking about that for a while and because I didn't get a chance to say goodbye to my mother. So that's kind of how I thought about it. I was like, well, so much for goodbyes, you know, I guess I'm not going to get a chance to say bye.

2:18:31And when I, I brought it up to my manager, I said, I think I'm going to call the record so much for goodbyes. And he was like, man, that's cool. It's like, you know because it's not really goodbye it's just like farewell for now right and i was like that's not really how i was thinking of it but yeah that's kind of more positive thing um yeah like so much for goodbyes like it doesn't even that doesn't matter yeah because it's you know she's still kind of with me no matter what oh i'm sure she's hitchhiking dude she might have just got tired of kind of rocking around this galaxy she might have just be hitchhiking out there she's probably in Sedona somewhere in some, you know.

2:19:06Oh, she's probably freaking nested up in a wind chime somewhere fucking living it up. Yeah, totally. You know? Yeah. But I do believe that when we think about other people, when we speak their name out loud, when we make music for them, when we pray for them, I believe that people can feel all of that. Yeah. I don't really even doubt it because it just feels so bigger than us. Yeah You know Right after she died I kept There were so many little things That I would feel You know like Just these like Certain animals would come around Or whatever Like a dragonfly Or I'd see a doe With like two fawns And I'm like Man It would just break my heart You know what I mean It's like that's my mom And that's me and my brother Or whatever You know And for a minute there It was like pissing me off It's like I don't want A fucking dragonfly like I want my mom like fuck that dragonfly but now I look for those things a cloud or whatever it is just the way the breeze feels but my mom she was an amazing artist she would constantly be calling me saying hey I took this hubcap and glued this to that and I made this little alien battle and I did this and so she always made this stuff and this was actually the piece that she was working on the night that she died because she was always going to make the next record cover.

2:20:32That was kind of our deal. So this thing that's in the frame with the hand and the little crystal ball and stuff like that, it was unfinished. So we kind of like filled the back end with some portraits and stuff like that. But this was the last piece that she was working on. And it kind of, it really, you know, it gives her essence of just kind of how she was. I mean, she was like a million little things all glued together and very iridescent. So that's the art that we chose for the cover. And, you know, she got to make the record cover like she wanted to. So stoked on that. And yeah, the songs, I think a lot of them are about just kind of what I was feeling at the time.

2:21:27And, you know, there's a tune on there called Wrestling an Angel. There's one called Still I Crash, which is like pretty much me exactly. I think I wrote that like days after she passed. Just like me speaking to her, you know, talking about how I just feel like I got to learn how to walk all over again. And, you know, I feel like a baby deer and my legs are all wobbly. And I'm just trying to learn how to stand up on my own this time, you know, without her. And it's, you know, so it's a pretty, a deep record, but there's some good stuff on there. You know, there's some bluegrass on there. And that Milltown flood, that's like a real, there's like some real characters that really were from Muir back in the day and stuff.

2:22:12Really? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I grew up in Muir, Michigan, which is like. Yeah. Yeah, I remember you talking about that. Yeah, there's like 600 people that live there or something. And nowadays it's kind of like a little, just a tiny little town doesn't have that much popping. But back in the 1800s, it was like kind of popping, you know? Like there was like this whole little strip and they had these gristle mills and sawmills. And they would float the logs down the Grand River down to the sawmill and then they'd chop it all up. And then when the railroad came through there, then they could put all that lumber on the railroad and ship it out to Milwaukee or whatever.

2:22:55And so it was a hustling little place. There was this guy named Darwin Lyon. He was the station agent at the Grand Trunk Railroads Montrose Station, which was later named Muir. But yeah, so he was the station agent there in Muir And this family, the Blanchard family Was like some of the first people that like Settled there and started, you know, making shit happen And so I like used some of those characters And then kind of made this like sort of fictional story About some actual non-fictional characters, you know So I like that tune I think that was a cool thing I've been infatuated with the history of the area Just the Grand River Valley Well I know you have a concert You have your Freak Fair Is it Freak Fest?

2:23:54The Ionia Freak Fair Yeah Ionia Freak Fair And that's something you started right? Yeah But I just think it's awesome to create something That people from your area can be a part of Oh man I've been trying to do this for years I've been wanting to bring a festival To my hometown for a while now But yeah, we got a bunch of good bands coming You know, Green Sky, Leftover Salmon, Sierra Hole Michael Cleveland and the Flame Keeper Yep, Lindsay Liu And then we're going to have like this tent Where we're going to have some metal bands Bane, Cryptopsy, Flesh and Blood Robot See You Next Tuesday, For the Fallen Dreams Some of these bands I used to run around with Back in the day when I played in metal bands and stuff Let's go, Full Chord Yeah Dude, that's so cool, bro.

2:24:41What a great thing to just bring to your area. Just a great weekend of music. It's going to be sick. I'm really looking forward to it. That's like in freaking two weeks. Yeah, man. It's going to be awesome. Hell yeah. Yeah, dude, thanks so much, man, just for catching up today and stuff, for inviting us here, just to be in Grand Rapids. It's cool, man. I remember when I came here, we did a show here, and it was great. I actually have a friend named Paul that lives here that I just realized on the way in town. I don't even know if I'm going to be able to get to see him. But I love you, Paul. I remember when we used to work, he and I was a dishwasher.

2:25:18He and I was busboys at this restaurant, and I found an Abbey Road cassette tape. It was the first time I'd ever heard the Beatles. And I put it in. I had an 84 Ford Escort. I put it in there. Dude, I listened to that for probably three years, dude. Yeah, I just saw you film Busboys. oh you saw it i loved it did you yeah i laughed my ass off dude so i didn't know you were an actual busboy at one point oh yeah bro i was in the trenches dude i was one of the first busboys to use creatine regularly i was man we fucking did a good job on it bro there wasn't a fucking dish dude i'll say this west of the mississippi there wasn't a dish that i couldn't that i couldn't fuck with yeah i was fucking good bro i was good i loved it so much and then i think i got caught up in drugs that brought me down a little bit was it really like that though like the the servers were like all hot shit oh yeah like they were good looking and shit and they would all fuck or whatever and you couldn't you like they looked at you like you couldn't even hold their condoms or whatever oh man it was just so trash dang it i know but yeah dude and we had Dude, bro, we had this dude named Todd.

2:26:34He was like part of some work release program there in Arizona. That's where I did it at. And he would fucking be – they had a chain. He would be chained like this fucking pizza oven that he was over there working. But they had like a six-foot chain that he couldn't leave like the area or whatever. Dude, our freaking chef got busted for buying illegal shrimp. One day like the – I guess the food and beverage, like if you go high enough in that department, some of them get guns or whatever. because they came running in, bro, kicked open the back door. They had everybody on the ground, and they busted the place for buying illegal shrimp.

2:27:06Camerones. And I was like, what the fuck is going on? Wow. But yeah, bro. Thanks for checking it out, dude. It was crazy to make it, dude. We went through so much. Yeah. But I think I would do something fun again like that. Dude, you should. It was awesome, man. Yeah. I love that. We did it all ourselves. Yeah. Yeah, and to make a film with David Spade is probably a dream come true, right? I can't even believe it. I mean, we all grew up on fucking Joe Dirt. Dude, he did Joe Dirt. I think they did Joe Dirt 2, and they shot it in Covington, Louisiana, which is oddly enough the town that I grew up in.

2:27:44No shit. Yeah, and then years later and he became friends, and he's shooting Grown Ups 3 right now out of New Jersey. Dude, I used to love just how just mean everybody is to Joe Dirt. It's such bullshit. Like the very first scene, he like pulls up and the guy's like, why don't you just drive this piece of shit off a cliff and do us all a favor? And then Kid Rock's like such a dick to him. Def Leppard fucking sucks. Yeah. Yeah, dude. And the crazy part is that them knowing each other is one of the reasons that I even got to meet Kid Rock. So it just, I don't know. Life's the weirdest thing, isn't it?

2:28:28It is weird. Isn't it the weirdest thing? I mean, yeah. I feel like my life definitely is, but I feel like probably everybody feels that way. Yeah. I think it's true. I think if you get out and try And just push yourself into life That there's like Things happen These pathways they connect And there's all these circles That eventually You run back into the other side Of that other circle or something Dreams get weaved man Yeah Dreams get weaved dude If you feel comfortable you want to play a song for us on the way out Sure Is there something I want to ask you too I have a couple questions really quick we have a quick segment that we do with Mountain Dew since you brought it up so many times can I ask you one or two questions yeah alright what should I give this try bro yeah it's sugar free I haven't had Mountain Dew in fucking years bro let's have some here you go yeah

2:29:36hell yeah it's good Wow, that's a blast from the past. Not even Baja. Just regular. Remember when they came out with Code Red, dude, and people were like, this is for Valentine's only or whatever, like rich people or whatever? Yeah, Code Red is like fucking, that's like chewing five gum. Yeah. No sugar, don't even have to worry about it. That zero sugar is kind of a vibe too. Same feeling, no sugar. It actually just tastes like Mountain Dew Yeah Did you ever go to summer camp? No, I never went to summer camp I don't even know I didn't even know that was an option Yeah But I did one time Our school When I was in like sixth grade I think Took us to like this like winter camp And that was like You know, we were all like sledding and shit And I remember me and Mike Borton and Travis Rogers were always trying to go like sneak over and see these girls in their cabin and shit.

2:30:42I remember like who was it back in the day? Marissa Smith. Oh, God. Anna Conrad and like Risha Ranucci and stuff. Oh, the Ranucci girls were dimes, bro. I don't know them, but I just know I can only imagine and I like to imagine, you know? I had a big crush on Marissa Smith, but I was too shy. Bro. Just way too shy, bro Dude, I had a freaking crush on this one girl This one girl, Amanda Dude, I had the fucking biggest crush on her This girl, I had a crush on her, dude And the only thing I could do I drew pictures of her on my wall at home all the time And my mom got so pissed My mom ended up spanking me pretty bad for it one time And it was so sad Because I was like I loved her so much and then I would just end up getting like spanked for it or whatever, or beaten or whatever.

2:31:37I don't want to say beaten because you can't say it anymore, but we used to call it beaten. So, but dang, yeah, winter camp sounds great. Yeah, winter camp, that's kind of what it was. But a couple of my friends, my friend Matt and my friend Brendan, just dropped their kids off for summer camp just recently. And so they're out there having fun. Yeah, dude, I wish I had gone to summer camp. We went to like YMCA summer camp, But everybody got really bad allergies. I think the field they put us in was like the worst. Pollen fields. Yes. It was just like right on the edge of a pine forest. And like the whole thing was just so much pollen.

2:32:16And people, you try to play kickball, but like two minutes into the game, people couldn't even see or play. Like it was people just standing around in the sun. Dude, I remember this one kid, his allergies would get so bad, he would just put his hands straight up in the air. almost like the cops were like the cops were getting him or whatever but dude it would be so bad and then we had to eat these hot lunches because there was nowhere to keep our lunches cold so we'd eat like these like just like bologna and cheese like and it was just like you would just sweat all day and then your mom would finally come get you like in the beginning you would be excited and at the end you'd be like please mom come get me and they had one kid who was kind of mentally challenged or whatever, but he would moonwalk all day.

2:32:58And in the morning, everybody's like, you're a loser. But by the end of the day, everybody's just watching him dance. Oh, yeah. If you were doing a road trip, this is the last question I have. If you were doing a road trip, what small town would you go to or would you suggest someone go to?

2:33:17Oh.

2:33:21I have to think about this for a moment. Is there a nice one in Michigan? I know there are, but is there a nice one that you suggest?

2:33:32Oh, like, I mean, there's so many small towns around here. Like, if you drive in any direction, you're going to find, like, these tiny little towns that have been there for ages, but they're just tiny. Like, there's one called Sparta, you know, Greenville, Belding, and stuff. But honestly, Ionia is a nice one. I was going to say Muir, you know, but that's I'm obviously biased, but that's OK. It's a beautiful place. I mean, it's the Maple River runs through there and it's it's a tiny little town. There's there's some history there. There's not much there. You might get all the copper wires stolen out of your vehicle or something.

2:34:13They need it. Yeah. Village of Muir right there. Show it to me. Well, dude, my town, Covington, Louisiana is a small town. But, dude, I went back not long ago, and I was just walking around downtown. It's great. Yeah. There's a lot of, like, nice, like, first of all, there's a lot of great people, and it's changing, and I didn't know if I expected that when I was growing up there. Like, it's always been a place with, like, great storytelling and just, like, kind of mystery and stuff like that and intrigue, but it's turned into, like, the most beautiful little town. Village of Muir, right there.

2:34:47Is that you right there, Billy? That is, yeah. They put this sign up that says hometown of Grammy winner Billy Strings. It says 2021, but they need to put three time on there now. Let's update that sign, Muir. I'm going to donate to the coffers over there in Muir so they have enough money to update that sign, dude. No joke. We're going to reach out to the city council over there and see if we can't get that updated. That's awesome. We could buy the, you know, village market and turn it into a titty bar or something. I think that'd be probably a good venture. Oh, yeah. As long as we keep some of, like, the produce section or something.

2:35:28I mean, I want people to still be able to get fresh stuff. Hell yeah. You know? Yeah. Because I'm not saying the titties won't be fresh, but, you know, it's TBD, man. Yeah. I mean, it'll be something. There might be some kind of pirate-esque kind of things going on. Yeah. Yeah, dude Yeah, you wanna play one on the way out first, fella? You don't feel like you have to, though We can also just call it a day Yeah, I'd love to, man Would you really, dude? Yeah Let's go

2:36:11Heck yeah, dude

2:36:39yeah man And let's see. I was thinking about this tune because we were talking about the village market and it kind of made me hungry. Yeah? Yeah. So maybe we'll go get something to eat after this, but this will get us in the mood. All right.

2:37:23Shoulder up the gun and whistle up the dog Shoulder up the gun and whistle up the dog Off to the woods for to catch a groundhog Oh, groundhog Run here, sailor, with a snicker and a grin Run here, sailor, with a snicker and a grin Groundhog grease all over her chin Oh, groundhog

2:38:03We're on here, Sally, with a ten-foot pole We're on here, Sally, with a ten-foot pole Twist that whistle pig out of his hole Oh, Groundhog

2:38:21There's meat in the cupboard and butter in the churn Meat in the cupboard and butter in the churn If that ain't Groundhog, I'll be darned Oh, Groundhog

2:38:48There's a little piece of cornbread laying on the shelf A little piece of cornbread laying on the shelf If you want any more, you can take it yourself Oh, Brown Hall

2:39:17Gonna eat up the meat and save the hide Eat up the meat and save the hide The best damn shoestring that ever was tied Oh, groundhog

2:39:44Oh, look at the fellers, they're about to fall Look at the fellers, they're about to fall They eat till the britches won't button at all Oh, groundhog

2:40:11Shoulder up the gun and whistle up the dog Shoulder up the gun and whistle up the dog Off to the woods for to catch a groundhog Oh, groundhog

2:40:27Oh, groundhog

2:40:36Oh, groundhog Let's go. Groundhog, baby. God. You think they're good? Would you try one? Yeah. I would too. Got hog in it. You know, it's not probably wild, you know. I'd go in it with a bacon mindset probably, to be honest with you. I'd hate that. Yeah, I bet they're nice and greasy. They kind of get off easy, though, having hog in their name and not being like accosted for it, you know, not being put in that place. Heck yeah. Thank you, dude. Thank you, man. Appreciate you, brother. Thank you. Appreciate you too, man. Thank you so much. Of course. Anything else that you want to talk about or anything else you want to play?

2:41:26Do you feel like a little bit?

2:41:38I could try one off the new record. Yeah, if you feel okay, but you don't feel like you have to. Let's see. So, you know, I was talking about Muir and how I just get kind of obsessed with that place and just that whole Grand River Valley there. And you ever go driving through your old hometown and just like look at your old haunts and... Just kind of get flooded with these memories. I'm one of those, like, real nostalgic types. Oh, I love nostalgia, man. Yeah. So I have this tune that's called that. It's called I'm One of Those.

2:42:47I'm looking for the place I used to live I've been driving up and down this road Trying to bring back old memories For one reason or another I let go I'm one of those, I'm looking for the time Where the river used to make a bend But it's been too long and I'm a fool to try to find that place again I'm one of those, guess I have too much time on my hands I'm one of those I could not find a place that I could land I hope you don't But if you do you'll probably understand that's how it goes I'm one of those

2:43:57I've got a thing for shuffling the day Leaving town in the cover of the night And top the ties that bind me If I don't, I know I'll end up in a fight Now could I go back to the place I love to dwell Where we sang our song and passed the jug around Well, I wave to all the ghosts that wander back across this road I'm strolling down I'm one of those, I guess I have too much time on my hands I'm one of those, I could not find a place that I could land I hope you don't, but if you do, you'll probably understand that's how it goes I'm one of those

2:45:01let's go

2:45:16let's go

2:45:52guitar solo back this way again. I'm one of those. Guess I have too much time on my hands. I'm one of those. I could not find a place that I could land. I hope you don't. But if you do, you'll probably understand that's how it goes. I'm one of those.

2:46:24I'm one of those.

2:46:37I'm one of those, man. Dude, that's magnificent, bro. Oh, thanks, man. Thank you so much, man. So much for goodbyes. So much for goodbyes. Comes out August 28th. Yeah. Dude, that's so exciting, man. Dude, I'm one of those, man. I'm one of those. sometimes I spent so much time in the past I just don't, you know. But at a certain point you start missing out too much. Yeah, I know. You gotta look through the windshield, you know, instead of in the rear view all the time. Yeah, they say that's why it's bigger. Somebody said that. I don't know who said that. Yeah. Oh, man, you like nicking daddy's hands and giving everybody kisses?

2:47:14Yeah, this thing, just this best date I've been on in a while. This.

2:47:20So much for goodbyes. That's out August 28th, man. With your mom's beautiful artwork right there. Yep. What a creative lady. What a creative family, man. You know? Hell yeah. What a creative family that you're a part of. And uh...

2:47:58I'm trying to think on the first one I did cocaine blues. Cocaine. Cocaine. There is this little one that I could add on there, even just for fun since we're sitting here. All right.

2:48:30guitar solo

2:48:51These people here, they treat me fine These people here, they treat me fine They feed me beer and they feed me wine Cause I've got the blues, those Nashville blues I've got the blues, those Nashville blues I ain't got no cap, I ain't got no shoes

2:49:49guitar solo I've got the blues, those Nashville blues. I've got the blues, those Nashville blues. I ain't got no hair, ain't got no shoes.

2:50:17Oh!

2:50:25I've got the blues Those Nashville blues I've got the blues Those Nashville blues Ain't got no hat Ain't got no shoes

2:50:41So much for goodbyes, man. Ain't got no hat or shoes, Bear. He don't got no shoes or no hat He don't even have a collar on right now Oh, what a pleasure, man Dude, Billy, thank you so much, bro Thanks for coming Man, just what a gift today to be able to just sit and spend time with you To kind of go through whatever's been happening in your life And you just share stories so well, man You're just like, I don't know You're kind of like this connector piece to the other side, man And it's nice, so Thank you, man Well, I appreciate it, and I'm glad you're doing this road trip, man, and was able to swing up through my stomping grounds a little bit.

2:51:25It's kind of nice to have you here in Grand Rapids, man. Yeah, we appreciate it, man. And, yeah, and good luck with Freak Fest. Yeah. Yeah, and good luck with Freak Fest and Billy Strings, man. Can't thank you enough, dude. All right. I can't thank you enough. Keep your stick on the ice. Yeah. Don't let your meatloaf watch your top knot. Keep it greasy side down. Yeah, greasy side. I think both sides are greasy, but we'll do our best, man. If you ain't in bed by midnight, come home. Yeah. Stay out of the tall weeds. Yeah. You're a gift to this world, man, and you're a gift to us today. Thank you so much, brother.

2:52:11Thank you. All righty. Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found. I can feel it in my bones, but it's gonna take...