E474 Kat Von D

32:40But you don't believe in ghosts, you think? Well, I don't know if I necessarily don't believe in it. I think, like, I just haven't experienced anything. And also, I've lived in old houses, so, like, they make noises all the time. And I think that a lot of people want to, like, experience it. So they, like, that's why they have, like, haunted tours and things like that. But I don't know. I just feel like I haven't seen it. Yeah, people want there to be somebody else. I think some people are lonely, too, and so they want a ghost to be around. Like there was this like these two guys that like when I bought the house, because I Googled the house to see if there's anything that came up.

33:14And on YouTube, there was like a like a house tour that these guys did. They like rented out the bed and breakfast. But I don't know if they told them they were they were going to film. And they were just like kind of dressed. I don't want to say goth, but like just older gentlemen. And they were just like really wanting to catch some paranormal activity. And it's so bad. Like there was it was like dust in the air. And they're like, did you see the orb? and it's like there's nothing there. But I don't know. I haven't experienced anything there. The Shank Mansion, there it is. Yeah. The house was restored in 2000 and operated in a bed and breakfast with the list of the National Register of Historic Places in 2002.

33:50Oh, look, it says that I bought it. Yep, so. That's cool. Yeah. So back to the tulip thing. So there's this plot of land that's right outside our gate, and it's just grass. And the lady who sold me the house, she owns it, my friend Lisa. And so I hit Lisa up and I was like, hey, look, I got a bunch of tulips. And I thought it would be cool just to bring something to the community, you know, just have – because people are coming here to take pictures anyway. So why not give them something, like, really cool to look at? Yeah. And so I got 10 ,000 black tulips. And I thought, like, this is going to be an enormous, like, just a field of black tulips.

34:31Yeah, VTM, bro. 10 ,000 is a lot. and then we did the math and the square footage it's like it's not that big like I feel like it's maybe twice the size of this room 10 ,000 of them oh that's all it makes yeah because you plant them about 3 to 4 inches apart so I feel like I guess they don't want to be far away from each other you should have got plants that were a little bit more like spread out yeah or just like they're cool with kind of doing their own thing I mean apparently tulips are kind of like I guess they're I guess they get lonesome or whatever. Yeah. Or, you know, whatever it's called.

35:06I don't know what that would be like as a flower. Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see. We have like, you know, wildlife out there. And everybody in my Instagram was like, you know, be careful because the squirrels are going to eat. They're going to dig them up or the moles. So we're hoping that by the time spring comes, they don't eat all of them. Dude, if you had an OnlyFans, if you just fighting moles, I think a lot of people would subscribe to it. I mean, I think you get a lot of the hunting audience, you know. How do you fight a mole, though? I don't know. That's up to you, I think. But I think it would just be pretty fascinating to watch.

35:44Do you feel different being out of L.A.? What does that kind of feel like? Does it feel like, were you kind of done with entertainment? I mean, you've had a neat career and at least gotten to experience, you know, certain things. You know, like that's one thing about having a different opportunity. sometimes at least you get to experience what it's like, whether it was great or you didn't like it. You get experience, you know? Yeah, I mean, I'm still, I haven't retired yet. So, I mean, I feel like, like you said, you know, the beauty of being able to create and do things, you don't necessarily have to be in L.A.

36:17anymore. And so I think before you used to, I feel like you had to live in L.A. if you wanted to do things. But now it's like, I mean, I make music, so I can do that from my house. I don't need to, or I could fly in and record. or I don't necessarily have to live in Hollywood anymore. Yeah, that's nice, huh? Yeah, yeah. What else can we think about?

36:41So, like, did you know that in the state of Indiana, like, you're not, it's illegal to own a squirrel? I found this out because my son found, like, a little baby squirrel that had fallen out of a tree, and it happens a lot. Like, squirrels fall out of trees and stuff, And this one was like barely breathing and really dehydrated. And I used to work at the California Wildlife Center back in California. And so like rehabilitating squirrels is pretty easy. It's not like an owl or something. Like do you need two hands to do it or do you can do it with one hand? You probably need two hands to do it, huh?

37:19Yeah, two because you have to like feed them with this little like syringe thing. Okay. But so we rehabilitated it. My son named him Lucky. He's like the cutest thing ever. and then I got baptized and then I got like a bunch of criticism about this baptism video so I had to make this, I didn't have to but I was inspired to make a video like calling out like judgmental Christians or whatever and in that video, Lucky is just like just like flying behind me he's just like running around and somebody saw him and reported me to the animal control and they showed up Like the guy showed up with like a gun and everything was like, hey, do you have you guys have a squirrel?

38:00Like, you know, you can't have one. So we're going to have to take it. And I'm like, they put him in cuffs. No, no. No, but I so I asked the guy, I was like, are you going to euthanize him? Because I know that's what you guys do. What are you going to you're not going to house him. And they're like, yeah, it's going to get euthanized. Are you kidding me? So they took him out of a warm home. No, of course they didn't take him. Oh, you kept him. lied and I told him I'm going to release him the next day. Oh, cool. And then we made like a little Instagram video like. Of him leaving? Yeah. Yeah. We don't have to tell anybody if he came back or not.

38:33Yeah. I'll just say. Yeah. You got it. Lucky lives elsewhere. Wow. Dude, that's incredible. Like who would do that? That's crazy. So, so cruel. Well, it's just also the, just the weird, like how legislation is so obtuse from like, like there's no intricacies a lot of times with like laws and rules, you know? It's just for this general thing. And they don't have any room to band a lot of these guys who come to, you know. It's like they're just trying to do whatever the. No, I was just more confused by who in their right mind would be like, oh, let me go and. Report a squirrel. Yeah, yeah. A baby squirrel, yeah.

39:13Yeah, I would feel so perverted even reporting it. Yeah. Or I would just be like, hey, imagine that call. Like, hey, I'm not trying to be a snitch or whatever. like a branch snitch or whatever. But there's a cat on DSA squirrel.

39:34Dude, you know how they release that body cam footage? They have to release that call. That call, you should remix a beat to that call, and that you should make. I wish they did have body cam footage. One of the best house songs ever. Cat on DSA squirrel. Cat on DSA squirrel. Well, the best is like my, it was my husband that opened the door and he was like topless with like, and he's like fully tattooed with the squirrel on his shoulder. Oh, well then that didn't help. Yeah. Yeah. People are like, people are trying to get this, they're trying to get this animal and, M squirrel 13 over here. Like there, there's not as bad stuff's going on out here.

40:13Um, yeah. So what, how did your journey go to like, I don't know if I want to call it a journey, but like, what was like, what like role has religion like played in your life? and stuff because, you know, I think we're at a time in the world. I think we're always at a time in the world, but I think it feels like a lot of people are looking for something that makes sense more. I feel like we're getting exhausted by the truth that a lot of the things that we feel like will make us feel good aren't doing it, you know? I feel like that a lot of times. But, yeah, what has some of that experience been like?

40:50I mean, if you got baptized, they really, what kind of, and was it like a, what are they doing in? What are they baptizing in? Water. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Good, huh? Oh, here's your video right here. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's pretty there, huh? Yeah. upon your profession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and in obedience to his divine commandment, I baptize you, my sister, in the name of the Father and the Spirit and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Oh, congratulations. I still get teary-eyed when I see that. That's cool. That's powerful. Yeah. Yeah. What is that like in your life? Yeah. What's it like? How do you get there?

41:44Like, how do you get? Because I think a lot of people are lost. I feel lost a lot of times, you know? I think a lot of us feel that way. And so how do you feel like you solved, like, you're lost? Well, I mean. Or is that even a fair question? I don't know. Yeah, I know. I get what you're saying. I was brought up with Christianity in my childhood, and then I strayed. and so like in a nutshell I just kind of in the last five years have like made my way back and have a a different understanding than maybe when I was a kid because I think when you're a kid you're like or at least for me it was like we just go to church because that's what we have to do and um you know I don't I didn't have actual profound questions that I I want answered like I do now and so I think as an adult you get to have a different understanding of that and so So that's kind of how I, in a weird, artsy way, just kind of came back.

42:41And the last five years I've just been studying the Bible, and now at this church we have our women's Bible study and stuff that I attend. You guys have a meeting you go to, right? I watched another podcast that you were on. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I heard you talk about it anyway, that you guys have a Bible study each week. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think I'm going to always have questions and continue to want to learn and have deeper understandings of things. And so but I in that podcast that you probably watched, like I talk about like a little bit what you said, it's like we're trying to find meaning or want to feel again, you know, and I think there's a lot of temporary fixes or, you know, like, you know, I used to like I was an addict.

43:28and I'll have 17 years sober in July. And so I feel like those are all things that kind of lead you in that direction. And yeah, I think it's such an intimate and personal thing. My relationship with God is my own and I've never really felt like I belonged anywhere. Especially now, I think, being public with my faith, puts you into like this microscopic critical tank, you know? And so I get criticized from all sides now, which I don't care because at the end of the day, you know, my relationship's with God, not you. Right. But it is interesting. I feel like now it just becomes funny, like some of the comments I get.

44:19I think because people have a hard time understanding the aesthetic and pairing that with something. Your aesthetic, you mean? Yeah. Right, the ambiance of you and then parenting. And Christianity. And it's so silly to me. And I don't understand how people don't see how closed-minded that is. Why would you think that you have to look a certain way to have an understanding of the Bible?

44:44Yeah, that's a good point, too. I think there's a lot of interesting stuff there.

44:52There's a lot to think about in all of this. Yeah, for sure. You know, like one time I went to like a Jordan Peterson lecture and my husband and I were like the only people that looked like us there. But I was black people. You mean what you mean black?

45:11No, I just like and I don't want to diss on like Jordan's fan base, but I feel like there everybody had their own uniform. you know like there was just rows of people in front of me and they all kind of dressed the same really yeah and i was like man for some for people and i'm not again not judging or criticizing but you would think that like free free thinkers would or maybe they just don't care i don't know or maybe there's just only so many stores too where you can i mean i feel like you it's a lot of johnson and guys who like are sad like i don't know i'm a jordan peterson fan but i'm like i think it's a lot of like there's you know it's a lot of uh lost boys but who have and uh who can uh comprehend well or well enough yeah you know because otherwise lost boys who can't comprehend they kind of you know they listen to maybe um hooba stank or whatever you know but i think if you get or uh or hey hey come out and fight remember that song you gotta keep them separated Oh, yeah, yeah.

46:17Offspring? Offspring, yeah. Dude, yeah. So a lot of like, yeah. If you are a lost boy who can't communicate as well as you'd like to sometimes, and this is a judgment, but you probably have owned an Offspring album. And then if you are a different version, then it's sometimes Jordan Peterson. But yeah, I could not imagine seeing. It would be like playing Where's Waldo if I saw you at a Jordan Peterson concert. so that's interesting but that's awesome that you guys went and you found like that that what the oh so i so my my whole point was just that i feel like uh maybe we pigeonhole ourselves right like i feel like everybody kind of like i went to this like so the church i go to is like a really small church and it's it's there's not enough people to have a a running trend or anything like that But when I went to like a big church in California recently, I looked around and it's like a lot of people have the same same style.

47:15And so I realized that maybe because like modern day Christians are so used to being surrounded by people that look the same as them. When someone like like me comes into the mix, it's like, oh, wait, this is demonic or this is because I get called demonic a lot or or this is like, you know, you're serving two masters. And I'm like, I don't think any of that is accurate. You know, I don't think you have to, there's no dress code to be a Christian. Yeah. Oh, that's baffling to me. Yeah. But I get it a lot. Like I just recently posted this, like my last post was just, I thought it was like a very cool, like modest image of me, like in a dress and some funny shoes.

48:00And I just, oh, the comments are just hilarious. It's just. People like Satan's going to bring you home. Yeah. Yeah. things. That's crazy. Yeah. I, I guess there's all levels of everything. Like, even if you get into like the Christian, like if you like, I thought I was going to get hate from my existing fans, you know, like just people who are like, feel like you could be a deserter or something, or maybe people that are fans of yours that, uh, aren't, don't have a religion or aren't Christians or something that they would have a thought about it. And no, they've been super loving and open-minded and I love that, you know, but it's been the other, the other side that I I was just so surprised.

48:36Wow. Yeah, you know, it's like I think there's a lot of interesting stigmas with Christianity, I guess. Like I like religion, right? I don't know if I care what religion people are. Yeah. You know? I think I wish I knew more about some of the religions. You know? I probably prefer Christianity for myself because that's what I know the most. Yeah. Or I would say that I prefer God. That's the term I like to use. And most of my belief started through AA, through going to 12-step meetings. It was like the first time I ever started to get an understanding of starting to build a relationship with God and talking to God and feeling like that if I think or feel something, that there's something on the other side of the universe that hears it or cares about it, right?

49:38And it blew my mind, dude, because, you know, I've been electrocuted a couple times. You have? Oh, yeah, but I never had a feeling like this. It's not like being electrocuted. It's just like feeling like. Wait, what do you mean? You've been electrocuted? Yeah, I've been electrocuted, dude. I've been electrocuted, yeah. I mean, I guess a handful of times or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. One time I got electrocuted at a carnival when I was young. I got electrocuted. Oh, three years ago, I stepped on. I was walking behind a food truck, and I stepped. They had a plug-in, a big joint plug-in, and I stepped right on it and just, you know.

50:21I wasn't. It was like the opposite of being baptized, I think. it was uncomfortable but yeah but I was yeah but um I yeah I like thinking about God I love thinking about it now you know I was just asking God this morning just to help me just to help give me some better direction in my life you know and help me with a few things I've been struggling with like I've been struggling to quit vaping right so I don't want to vape and so it's just been so hard and I realized like I'm an addict you know it's like dude I will wake up in the middle of the night and like see if there's vape places open and stuff and then some assholes started to stay open in 24 hours oh yeah cigarettes was the hardest for me oh my gosh I love smoking I love cigarettes but I just can't I don't want to be that mom like vaping became my higher power in a lot of ways if I have an uncomfortable thought, feeling, moment whatever let me hit this thing yeah and so i realized oh this is the thing i'm serving this like yeah whether i want to have a higher power whatever i want it to be yeah this is whatever i am serving this thing i show up when this whenever the little like a pain goes off inside of me i show up for this thing that's crazy um yeah my life revolves around smoking too and it's funny because you start like treating it as like little treats.

51:51Like I would be tattooing and I'd be like, all right, I'll just get through like two hours and then I get a treat. And then, you know, you get these little breaks and stuff. And then, but then everything, like life becomes an inconvenience, at least for me. I've never talked about this before, by the way. Like I feel like usually when I talk about like sobriety and stuff, you're talking about like drugs. But cigarettes were the hardest. I mean, I just, I love the ritual of it. I love the smell, like leather jackets and cigarettes to me is like so sexy. I just, I. Oh, Sam Elliott in the mask. Have you seen him in that?

52:21No. Was Cher a member of that movie? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking the other mask. Yeah, yeah. I wish Sam Elliott was in that one too. Yeah, yeah. I like Sam Elliott. I mean, I don't like him like I like him, but I like him. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, people don't talk enough about that. It's, yeah, it's so, I mean, it just, all of it is. Yeah. I mean, I was like two packs a day. What? Uh-huh. Like till recently. Packs Von D, huh? That's crazy, dude. Two packs a day. You're lucky you look so lovely still after having smoked that much. I know. Yeah, true, true. Not I know. I mean like. But no, it's a blessing.

52:56Yeah, it's like, that's fortunate. You see some people that are just like, yeah. Some people look like they start to eventually, they look like the inhale that they take off a cigarette. They're just like. Like their whole body is just like. Yeah. You know, yes. But if I see people doing drugs in movies, I just instantly get sick to my stomach. I'm like, the idea of doing drugs again is like I'm beyond that. But if I see somebody smoking a cigarette, I'm like, man, I still have that. I can't cheat on that. Oh, I stopped at a high school. Dude, this is the saddest story. I remember kind of milling around a high school to see if some kid was vaping after school one day.

53:44And vaping's so not cool. Like, that's the one that's like, I'm like, what? Just smoke a cigarette. Like, why would you? It's like so, like, steampunk, like, with your little things. Oh, yeah, that's the dumbest, dude. The steampunks are the craziest about it, though. They're, like, putting together, assembling. Like, it's so weird. Just get a cigarette and be a man. god i didn't know that i was such a loser right now but i'm okay this might be the conversation i need that helps me yeah i just didn't uh yeah but this yeah there's something the people they put this yeah like crank it and they make their own vape or whatever they like add vanilla season here it's like they have a machine it has a tumble drive setting on them like what yeah these are the guys that are doing this is a guy let's play that can we play that let's see one of these yeah they're the people that blow the smoke and they what like there's there's team compa like a guy you don't do any of that i don't do it no this guy's out of his mind this guy has a 12 gauge faith oh my god this guy this guy's wife is missing there's no reason to need that much nicotine unless you did something bad.

55:00Look at that. This guy's a damn mutter. But the craziest ones are the competitions. It's almost like it's one of those dog shows now. It's like the guy will blow a big smoke ring and then his wife will run and jump through it. It's like, what is this shit? Anyway, but it's hard. It is. It's hard. And I think since I don't have a family or anything that I constantly need to address, then... I feel like I probably wouldn't have quit if I didn't have a son. Really? Yeah. I mean, the minute I got pregnant I got the plus sign that was the day I quit and then I started again after I had my son not right away, but like Were you hiding and doing it?

55:42No, no Fuck yeah That's pretty awesome that you were No, I mean, I never would post like, you'll be hard pressed to find there's very few photos of me smoking online, but But then when my son was two Because I had my little smoking nook outside And he came out My son came He learned how to open doors And he came out and was like mommy mommy And he's like what's that smell And I just felt like such a loser I was like I can't be that mom Yeah Oh I would hate that being that dad What's that smell And it's like oh it's cranberry lime crush Or whatever Is that your flavor Ice or whatever Yeah whatever i know i prefer um watermelon lemon and sometimes i'll do watermelon lemon mango if they don't have the one that i like but it's like it's sad it's all pretty sad i think uh and the guy knows me huh he calls me big boy when i walk in there That's the worst part and he's like kind of like uh he's hispanic or like egyptian or something he's like what's up big boy that's what he says every time i go in there dude and this is the saddest part i will buy it hit it a few times and then throw it away so i don't hit it anymore and then you have to buy it again and then i'll go later on that day and buy it again oh i was just like i would just buy cartons cartons yeah you buy a boatload you'd be out there like on the ohio I remember flagging down.

57:10I buy cartons, and one of my biggest pet peeves was when people would ask to bomb a cigarette. Why? You have a carton? Well, yeah, but I'm averaging one every 30 minutes. I don't have a spare. Why would you do that? Just go buy your own. There's some famous comedy duos out there, baby. Tom and Jerry, Ricky and Morty, Buzz and Tony. I don't remember the other guy's name. But there's a lot of great comedy duos. What about the perfect duo when it comes to growing your business? That's you and Shopify. Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Whether you're selling scented soap or offering outdoor outfits for the outdoors.

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1:00:29That's betterhelp.com slash Theo. That's how it was when I would do drugs too. I remember in the beginning, it was like fun party time. You're out with your friends. And then the minute that I realized like, oh, no, this is mine, I would just start doing drugs by myself. Oh, yeah, me too. Yeah. Like that was it. Like no, no sharing because there's so many freeloaders. Yeah. And I was one of them, first of all, and I'd finally gotten some drugs. So the last thing, if I'm, yeah, it's finally time I get to freeload off myself, you know. But yeah, I would go home. I would get cocaine. I would go home and just do it by myself.

1:01:05And it would be sad. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was the saddest, man. Uh-huh. I don't know why. But, yeah, people do that. But, yeah, I think through, like, going to 12-step meetings is where I started to build a relationship with a higher power and really believe in one. Before that, I just never had it presented to me in a way that felt, I don't know, that it, like, meshed, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's important, I think, is how it comes into your life, too. you know, a lot of times. Um, and I just like having our power, like having an invisible friend that, um, yeah, I like having an invisible friend.

1:01:50Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, um, I came from the, the school of thought where, you know, you, you have to be like empowered and, um, you know, just believe in yourself and all this, the, this idea that you, you know, it's kind of almost like self-worship and um and i think in a you know they do talk about that where it's like that you know you can't do this on your own and i think taking that to like the bigger picture part of it um where it's not just with addiction that for me i'm like i've definitely surrendered to that and i don't think there's anything wrong you know to humble yourself and be like i can't i can't do this on my own.

1:02:30And so that's kind of where I, where I, you know, landed, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's the part I struggle with a lot. Sometimes it's just on a daily basis, like turning my will over to God, you know, turning my will over to a higher power. Like, you know, I pray every day and, but I just, I know that it's a relationship that I want to be stronger in my, in my life. You know, I can feel it all the time. Like me just wanting like a stronger relationship. And then, yeah, one thing I liked about churches was just the sense of community or religious places people meet up, worship centers, was just the sense of people doing something together, kids being able to do Sunday school or whatever, and you go in the back and you're back there.

1:03:19Everybody's making little arts or whatever. And I like that. I like that sense of community. I think it was good probably for communities to have some shared meeting space. And I think churches and religious worship centers used to be that more in America. I don't know what it's like in the rest of the world. Yeah, I love that community. I personally love, like, I look forward to my Sundays, and we do choir practice on Thursdays. And like, I definitely feel, um, I mean, I think because we have a small church, which I think is a good thing. Like, um, when people are missing, like they're, you know, when they go out of town or like they're, they're, they're missed, you know, like I feel like I, I genuinely miss my, my church family when I'm in LA.

1:04:10Oh yeah. It's cool. Yeah. It's cool. I've never really had that before. And I, I, I'm not that kind of person either. Like I don't like group therapy. I don't like doing, I don't like communal seating at restaurants. Like I like Lone Wolf, you know, but, but where I, you know, I have found my little, my little, I guess, tribe, whatever. No, that's fair. Yeah. Well, I think there used to be a lot more of that. I mean, there's even that book by Sebastian Younger, I think it's called tribe maybe where, yeah, it was about that. It was about when we were in smaller groups and stuff like that. People used to, yeah, you would miss somebody.

1:04:44They'd be gone. It's like, otherwise you get so caught up with so many things and your space gets too big and it's hard to know. it's hard to pay attention it's hard to connect you know or you're trying to connect to too many things you know and people feel like that's part of it we're just trying to connect to too many things i don't think our system is built for that a lot of times yeah so i think it's nice i bet having a yeah a place where you notice if somebody's gone yeah that's pretty cool yeah it's cool it's important i think it's important for us yeah you know um yeah what was it like Did you think you really had an addiction problem?

1:05:19What was that like? Oh, yeah. I mean, I was like a big-time... User? Drug user? Loser, yeah. Loser, yeah. That's fine. No, I mean, you know, I'm like a quick learner, so it's not like... I can't... I'm never casual about anything. So it's like, you know, what starts off as innocent and just experimentational turns into like my entire existence. Yeah, wow. Wow. And that part of my personality, I've managed to change over the years, too. I've grown up a little bit more. Like what part of it you mean? Well, because I think before when I looked at my relationships, when I looked at just everything has to be an excess.

1:06:02Oh, yeah. And now I'm a little more balanced. Did you ditch the jacket? Yeah, I just took my jacket off because I don't know if I'm getting warm or not or I don't know if I'm just feeling like if something's wrong with me. I feel fine. I'm not going to faint. I don't feel sick. I was like, do I still want to have a jacket on? And so I just took action, I guess. You know? Yeah, I think faith is just so interesting. I think it used to be probably a long time ago, people had to have more faith because there wasn't, like your television screen was almost like the sky or the, you know, it was like watching nature.

1:06:40Like if you wanted to watch the nature channel, you had to go outside. Like, you already lived outside, so you gotta just look, you know? It was like, I think we're so much more connected probably to the universe. And I don't know. I think, I don't know. I just think it's interesting what religion is like. And some people say that it's bad for people, you know? That people call it like the opiate of the masses. You hear people say that. And, but I don't know. I would. I think there's bad representations of everything, you know? I mean there's like certainly bad representations of people in AA you know like I always had a hard time going to AA because I just couldn't stand a lot of the people to be honest and well that and also like I just feel like they were never it was never really anonymous especially in LA like people go there as a scene like you would go and it's like so and so was at a meeting or yeah I remember I was going with a friend and then someone like took a picture of us like from you know the back or whatever and post like man like you know it's like my friend's trying to get through something and then yeah you know it's like this unnecessary attention or or the worst would be comedians like that would show up and they would speak and they're just like practicing their really yeah it's like the worst the worst i'm like um this is why i vape at least now i have somebody to blame it on but no i'll say this you know what there is some things about that that make uh people feel uncomfortable you know I try to go to meetings and share as honestly as I can and um that's cool but it's sometimes you know that part I'm able to get over like if somebody hears something I'm thinking or feeling about because that sometimes could be was a hang up for me a little bit like you know if people started to recognize you it made me feel like scared I think a lot of times um I mean it all helps and it all doesn't I mean And, you know, I feel like if it inspires somebody to keep coming, that's cool too.

1:08:36But you don't want that to – somebody's sobriety hinged on that. And I think there's also – it's like churches. There's some that are mega churches that are, you know, preaching weird gospel. And then there's smaller ones that are not – or whatever. You know, I think it's like – because I know there's meetings that are much more private and like, you know, it's not a scene or a dating scene or something, you know. Yeah. Yeah, A is interesting though I think it's interesting But then also you're like, well This is why I'm here It sometimes depends on my attitude If I'm in a good mood that day, it's like I don't care But yeah, there was a meeting in Las Vegas Where a guy was kind of filming Like himself With me in the background And that made me just I mean, I spoke up for myself And I asked him what was going on But it was just, some of that stuff's a little bit weird Yeah, it's to be But then you're like, well, yeah, I don't know.

1:09:35But I love going to meetings. That I really like. I thought it was super helpful. That's good. I'm trying to think of something else with faith that we could talk about. You want to talk about that stuff more? Is it okay with you? Yeah, yeah. I love thinking about it. I don't have a lot of people on that I guess that we talk about it with as much. I'm probably the worst person because I'm not like a studied, you know. Oh, I don't know anything about the history of it. I mean, I know about the family in the woods. I know they had the apple. I know one of the sons killed the other one. So things got a little hectic right out of the gate.

1:10:11But there's a lot of the specific... I don't know a lot of the logistics. So I think I wouldn't... Yeah. That part I don't know about. But I just think about feelings and stuff. I like thinking about that kind of stuff. Some of that is intuitive, too, I feel like. You know, like, like there's parts of, you know, I think there's like some, some things that are like ingrained in us that you can't really explain, you know, like it doesn't feel good to harm somebody and things like that. Yeah. Um, but I don't know. Yeah. But then, yeah, it's, it's interesting how that kind of stuff happens in the world sometimes, you know, I don't know.

1:10:52I don't. Yeah. But I think then people go, well, you know, if. Why would God let that happen? I'm going to take my shoes off. Is that okay? Yeah, for sure. That's fine. Don't get a shot of it because that's gross. I hate people do that. I just want to do this. I don't even have my phone on me. Yeah, well, we can blur them out. No, you don't have to blur them out. Okay. Yeah, but I think sometimes people want to blame God when it's bad and not for the good stuff. But I think you look at like, I always think like we're human. You know, we sin. We were capable of making mistakes and we have free will to make good and bad choices.

1:11:28So it's like, yeah, of course there's going to be evil in this world. But I don't think God would be the one to blame. You still have to take accountability for your actions. It's a shame that bad things do happen to a lot of good people and innocent people. That's the way of the world. Yeah, I think that's always been there throughout time. I don't think of God is like a specific instance-to-instance type of landlord or whatever you want to, you know, leader or champion or whatever. Some people call them different names. But I think of him more as just this jet of like – I like to think of his view of us as like a general energy, more like it's just something that's always there.

1:12:15No matter – even if things are horrible, it's there. And if things are good, it's there, you know? It's almost like this, like, it's like this code or something that kind of fits to whatever you need it to be. I don't really think of it as like too much of like a rigid thing. So yeah, I guess I wouldn't blame God. Like if something horrible happened, I don't know if I would take it to God. I would just be like, that's what we do here, unfortunately, in the world, you know? I might talk to God to try and have understanding, and maybe I would blame him, and he would let me blame him. That's one of the things he does.

1:12:57He just lets you blame him. I don't know. I don't know. I like thinking about this, though. Some of it's interesting. Because it's like, yeah, how do we? And I don't know if our brains can conceptualize everything. We only have five senses. I was just talking to my buddy about this the other day. Like, dude, we only have five senses? Yeah. Not that many, dude. A lot can be done with that, though. Huh? A lot can be done with that. No, no. And look, people are doing a great job. No, but you're right. I feel like there's parts of my brain that can't comprehend the concepts of time, you know what I mean?

1:13:32But we just try our best to get through that. I think about the story of Job in the Bible. That one is, even if you look at it not literally, but where Job was this guy, and I'm going to just paraphrase it, obviously. Totally paraphrase. And look, if anybody judges somebody for paraphrasing out of the Bible, dude, we're not pastors, you know? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, we're just two people sitting somewhere trying our best to be alive in the universe. Yeah, yeah, it's true. But thanks. But, you know, like, Job was put through all these trials and all of the worst things that you can imagine happening to one person.

1:14:06And through it, he just maintained his faith. And even at a point where even at one point his wife was like, come on, are you serious? Like, how can you still like praise God when you're, you know, you're losing your children, you're losing everything we've had, you know, and now you're sick and covered in boils and on the brink of death, you know, and he was just like, praise God, you know. And I feel like a lot of times, you know, through my decades of tattooing people and hearing like the worst and saddest stories, like just, you know, I was kind of known for doing a lot of portraits. and so I would do portraits of people, their loved ones who have passed or, you know, their loved ones who inspired them, things like that.

1:14:44And you just hear some of the most heart-wrenching stuff that, like, I can't even begin to imagine, like, how you're still walking, you know? But they still find a way, you know? And I feel like that's, like, I want to be like Job in that sense, you know? Because, like, the last few years for me, I've been so rough, like, behind the curtains, you know? I don't share all of my, I'm not the type of person that goes on Instagram and cries, you know, but it's like, you know, we, we suffer quietly through things and we like, um, you know, no one's, no one has a perfect life. And, um, but I'm still going to live in a state of gratitude, you know, and I'm still going to be like excited to be here sitting with you today, you know?

1:15:24And it's like the world could be falling apart and I'm still like, I praise God, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It gives you hope. I think. Yeah. that's the thing I think that's I don't know I mean yeah I love that yeah and we do all it is interesting how we suffer quietly huh yeah I mean some suffer loudly like a dick but oh yeah like my freaking neighbor's dog that thing's not even suffering and uh but it's loud yeah um but it's all gonna be okay yeah I think that's what God is to a lot of people it's a real it's like Like I would way rather have hope. Me too. Than not have it. Yeah. That's the thing.

1:16:10It's like, and yeah, I don't know. I've just felt God. I've just felt God. Same. It was the only thing I could say it was. Yeah. You know, because one time I was smoking a bunch of menthols actually going back to cigarettes. But my girlfriend had broken up with me and I was about to just, you know, peel my skin off of my body and feed it to something. And I wasn't doing real well. And I was just really doing real bad just on the inside. And I swear, I felt like something literally just put like a big hand went around my heart. And I started to feel better. But I felt like it really felt like that.

1:16:50Same. Yeah. I had the exact same feeling. Really? Yeah. It was weird. I don't really talk about it because then you sound all like. Oh, I don't give a fuck. People know I'm that. We're doing our best. Yeah. If anybody thinks, yeah, that they think I know anything about God, like any exact low key BTS information about the Lord, they're out of their effing mind. And if they think they do, too, then they're out of their effing mind. I just am trying to think out loud and feel out loud with somebody. Is that what that but you had something similar? Yeah, yeah. Where I felt like like a hand, like just kind of wrapping me in warmth.

1:17:26And and I just I just had this feeling of surrendering to it. You know, where I was just like, oh, man, like it's it's going to be fine. And it's not it's not me just be like, oh, tell myself until, you know, like, no, like I had like a clear understanding that like you got me, you know. Yeah. It's kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. And well, what's interesting, too, for me is I've even taken my own will back so many times since then. Yeah. And that's the tough thing. I think that's where I want to get more into like just my morning routine. It's just like turning my, just die will be done, you know? Because then it just takes all the pressure off of me.

1:18:02It takes all the pressure off of me to like feel like I have to make everything okay or that I got to make everybody okay or that I have. What are those pressures? Like, I don't know. I think I just feel, I've always felt like I'm running late for something. I've felt that my whole life. Like I'm, if I don't keep doing more, then I'm not enough. Or, or like if I don't do, I think I felt as a kid, like if I don't do something, like I just wasn't seen. My mother, my mother didn't really look at me. Right. And so I think, uh, I felt like I have to be perfect if I'm not, the only way I have a chance of being seen is if I'm perfect, you know?

1:18:54And if I'm not, if I'm not like perfect, then I just don't have a chance to be seen, you know? And, um, yeah, it makes me, it makes me sad to think that a kid would think that, you know? Um, but I think that's how I felt, you know, I think, and I'm not blaming my mother, I think, or my father, you know, I don't know, I don't know what their lives were like, but I just remember like, as I've gotten older, I've been able to recognize. that like man if i just that's what you were feeling for so long you know i felt like i always needed to go do something to try and make myself better so that i was enough same yeah yeah yeah be seen you know yeah um so i think uh when i say yeah i will be done it's like just letting like none of that matt it does everything's okay yeah yeah you know like no matter how you are if you're good or bad or if you're not doing your best if you're not even like not if you're not even trying really i feel like you should try yeah but just that everything is you're just not alone you know yeah and so i think i i've always had a tough time like letting people love me you know yeah it's been really really tough like like in relationships or something yeah i think i'm just i think that muscle just wasn't built up when i was a child with my mother and so So I just didn't, I just have had a tough time with it.

1:20:19And so I think the interesting thing about having, through 12-step for me has just been having some, trying to build some relationship. It's the first time that I've kind of really let somebody into my life is in my negotiations with God. And I hate to call them that, but that's kind of, you know. That makes sense, though. Like how much am I willing to turn myself over to that somebody else is going to. That somebody else is going to be that be with me, you know, even if I'm not even if I'm not enough or if I don't feel like I'm enough for them to keep me around. Yeah. You know, anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

1:21:03Sorry. No, don't apologize. No. Yeah. I think. Yeah. I had this scenario last week when I was in L.A., actually, where I had this makeup line for 12 years, and it did really great. and then at one point I got a bunch of backlash and um and I ended up having to like really like sit with myself and figure out like what I want to do with my life if I want to keep up this fight of um like I mean I don't know there's like contractually things that that that I can't talk about anymore. But, but when I sold my makeup line, um, I had to sit there in a, in a meeting with the production company and, um, and lawyers and stuff.

1:21:58And I remember I just wanted to like, shut it down. Like, let's just let it go. Like, I don't want to do this anymore, you know? And they were like, but I think they, they saw there's profits to be made and stuff. And so, um, in order to buy me out, like, you know, there was negotiations at one point and I was always very fair about things I don't I wasn't asking for you know the world and and I remember at one point um uh this guy this old man with like this balding old man with a potato nose alcoholic potato nose like looked me in the eyes and told me you're not worth anything anymore like and um and those words and his voice like haunt me still even though i know it's not like this guy's telling me what's cool like yeah you know and um and i know it was just like a leveraging point to whatever try to give me as little as possible but so i uh when i go to la i like this is one thing that i don't that i that i do complain about where i'm at in indiana is that there's no places to work out and i actually like it's it's good for my health to work out every day yeah so when I go to LA I'll fly in and then I just go to um I go to Barry's boot camp where I just have a bunch of people yelling at me to run faster and uh and so but if you've ever been to like a Barry's workout it's like there's no uh talking and that's another thing I like about it you just go you work out and then in between um like you do like floor work and then you have to switch to the treadmill right and in between that you you switch and so we're right about to switch and I'm just sitting there like this guy's voice gets in my head I'm looking at myself in the mirror and it's just like like uh you're not worth anything anymore and uh i'm like what am i doing my life and i was like on the verge of tears and right at that moment this like blonde girl just comes up to me and was like hey cat really quick i just want to tell you i think you're so amazing and i just like lost it like and then she just went on her treadmill and like what you know and i didn't see her again and i was like man i know it's not um this is the part where you should blame God for like these beautiful divine like moments where it's like, man, you sent this girl like to me just to say like a few little words that like just changed my, you know, I was just like so grateful in that moment.

1:24:19I like went back home after that workout. I just went to my husband. I was like, this girl just changed my life, you know? And he was just like, yeah, why are you even listening to that? I'm like, I know. And that was like years ago. And I just still like, you know, I don't know what part of me and it's probably my childhood stuff where, you know, I don't know yours, but mine was like constantly seeking validation through, through my mom, you know, like that wasn't there. And it's like, um, and you know, I've gone to like years of therapy to like fix myself and stuff. So I'm not where I was before, but before I was like, definitely like, Oh yeah, like I need to, um, do more.

1:24:55There's not enough. Like I, there's so much I want to do that. It hurts. And it's just like, and it's not, it doesn't really matter if you have like a sea of people that are like cheering you on at the end of the day it's like it's just all in here you know but um yeah it's just it's crazy to see it in real time now I feel like ever since I got to this place that I am now like with with my faith like I start seeing it in real time all the time where it's like God's just kind of diving in and being like cut that shit out like you know um but i don't think it's ever gonna go away though yeah yeah and that childhood stuff and all that kind of like i don't suffer from that stuff every day no i mean right it just creeps in sometimes yeah sometimes people see you know they're like man you seem like you know i'm like i'm i'm okay yeah you know but it's still a part of me yeah that lives inside of me you know and um and sometimes there's still like i notice there's a lot of feelings like i never got to have feelings when I was a kid I didn't know I was always in some type of mode of like I need to be like seen I need to make sure my mother sees me so I'll be fed just taking care you know whatever so I know so at that point you're not developing any other feelings except for like you know yeah like a stress yes and so I think yeah but I think the first time I've ever really been able to have some sort of a, even discussion of a relationship in my life has been, um, through recovery and through, uh, the introduction of God that way.

1:26:25Cause it was like, you get to choose your own God. Right. And I, I've just chosen the most common God that I know. And, and, um, the one that I, you know, friends, families would take me to church and stuff. And so, and that's fine for me, you know, it's, um, but I think a lot of that's interesting. Yeah, man, I can't, what gets to me is that somebody would even want to work in a job where debating or negotiating for money is worth even the value of saying something like that to someone. That's the sickest part of the world. I mean, it worked. I've definitely was like questioning myself in that moment and was like, maybe I should just settle, you know?

1:27:04And it's like, you know, but lessons learned. I don't, I think everything turned out the way it was supposed to anyway. Yeah. You know, but that's a lot of LA. It's like, you almost have to hire sick people to deal with other sick people and some of that. And it's like, you know, but that's the nicest thing about being out of there. I think it's having some semblance of, uh, like I don't have a manager. I don't have, I don't know. I've simplified my life too. It's crazy. And, and a lot of these things have just, cause you know, I've been so used to being in this little bubble where it's like, uh, having the assistants and the managers and all this stuff.

1:27:42And then it's like, we move out here and I was like, I can't really, I don't want to bring a compound of people over here. And, you know, we had a nanny, for example, like, um, and, and, you know, I w I wasn't blessed with a very close family. So when, when I had my son, it's not like I had a village of family that was helping us out. Like and it's fine you know we can do it but then I ended up hiring a nanny who was like family to us you know and she would just come from nine to five so that I could do all my work during the day and then and then once we moved out here it was like I was kind of like left alone and I was like man this is actually cool being a full-time mom I know it sounds so dumb to say that out loud but like where I'm it's just me 100 % of the time instead of having somebody help and I think it's made me obviously a better mom and um and but but you you realize like with with less is sometimes easier um it's definitely less complicated you know like my life is definitely like i i let go of publicists and all that stuff i mean we will definitely hire like when we when i have an album launch and stuff i'll put together a team and we do things but in general like i'm not dealing with a sea of people anymore and it is it is definitely liberating and it feels like just um there's just more benefits to it i think like even when you guys hit me up and stuff it's like i used to be like oh yeah i'll just let so and so hand i'm like that's cool i'll just drive myself here you know like um because southern indiana is not that far from here and i'm like my son and my husband we took a little road trip you know oh nice yeah and then it's just like like it's just easier that way yeah oh yeah and these days it's like i don't want somebody fielding something that does has no idea what my interests are yeah or what who i or what you know they may have some idea what my interests are but they don't they're not going to make the choices i you know yeah it's almost like a lot of that whole world is built on this shell system that you need somebody to help you be a human you know um but these days a lot of like people don't even believe a lot of stuff in the press nobody takes i don't believe any of it like it's all it's all a bunch of fucking sound cloud rap.

1:30:00Yeah, yeah. You know? It's like a lot of fucking... I mean, if anything, usually if I see certain headlines, especially with my friends, I'm like, well, you already know the truth behind things. And I'm like, oh, I'll be more... My first thought is to be like, oh, it's probably the opposite of whatever it is out there. But I feel like, do people still fall for it now? Probably. I don't know. So if you still fall, if you don't think that, I mean, there's just so, like I have friends, it's like, who was my friend the other day was telling me that there's some celebrity that they pay a couple grand or something.

1:30:37And then some people show up and take pictures of them and then it's going to be in some tabloids, but it's all set up and none of it's like, it's all for show. None of it is not real. Yeah. You know, it's like, and it's like people will come out with a brand. And then they'll call their friend in a magazine and they're like, hey, can you say that this brand is amazing? And then their friend writes an article says the brand is amazing. And we don't even know if the brand is. It's just like so much of it is it's just valueless. Yeah. Because it's not true. Yeah. You know, and I think that's the thing is just trying to sort out what's true.

1:31:14And I think that's what we're all trying to do. I think a lot of times just in our own lives even is like, well, what do I really think or feel? what's true you know I think that's something I've had an interesting time um so I mean I mean that I think that's one of the reasons I've always loved you and everything you do is like there's a level of authenticity um and it's like like earlier we were talking about style and stuff and I'm like I love your style because it's it's just you're effortlessly doing it whatever you like you know or unless there's a lot of effort I don't know I mean it took a while to stand there and be like, I don't know if this is okay.

1:31:50But I'm good. I don't wear that black coat because I know you like black stuff. I love that. I wish I could be as brave as you, I think. I did think that's the reddest lipstick I've ever seen in my life. But it's kind of a nice Christmas color, too. Wait, what do you mean brave? I think it's just brave to like. Oh, you need to put this on? To be like. Like, because I remember when I was in junior high school, my friend Matt Shinnevere, he was like, he was a neat guy. and his brother played in a band. And I don't want to say the band was bad, but the band was probably had a unique sound. Okay. Okay, so.

1:32:25And their name was like, you know, like shuddering. Like it was something crazy, you know? Like desperate victim or something, you know? Like definitely, like the name of the band was, one guy was playing the drums, but he was just fucking shaking with anger so much and he had the sticks in his hand and he was just keeping some type of a vague wooden to metal falsetto. And it was just, that's who they were, you know? But so I would go sometimes and try to be like, and I would listen to like Blind Melon and like fucking... Blind Melon is like the one that... All I can say is that my life... But they somehow rolled...

1:33:09I guess they weren't goth, but they were kind of hippie. I don't know if we had goth. Maybe we had one dude. oh yeah goth was different sorry these were just kind of like like violent hippies okay all right so that's kind of the group i was in for a little while was this violent hippie group and then um but yeah the goth kids would wear like those shoes that were like and then yeah but they had to wait till everybody left to walk back because it was like such a uncomfortable walk sometimes she's like why are those goth kids still hanging out by the tree over there like always in the trees it's weird there's even a website i think it was called goths and trees and for some there's like a fascination with like goth people that are like in trees i didn't i've never felt the feeling calling but i don't know there's a lot of them yeah that's cool it's a thing so go on there it is goths and trees right there let's look at a few of them yeah that guy definitely oh that guy is goth dude yeah they all hang out in trees i don't understand Ooh, there's something very Edgar Allan Poe about it.

1:34:15You know? Because of a raven? I think so. Now, this lady seems like... It's a thing. I have never done it. Let's see more. This is fascinating. Wow. Now, that guy is goth. Yeah. Look, they're inside trees. It's weird. I wonder if there's something about it that feels good to them. To our species? Yeah. I could see it. Now, this is really interesting. She brought props. Oh, yeah, she's a Sith. Or Scythe? Is it Scythe? She's a Scythe. Oh, wow, yeah, these are Goss on... In trees. Is it a treehouse? Yeah, it looks like a treehouse or a zipline. Goss on zipline would be good, too. But I love this.

1:35:01This is really fascinating. I used to love when there were some dope Tumblr pages out there. That was fun, wasn't it? Yeah, but you were going to get to the point where, so you had the friends that were in the band. Yeah, and I thought I was goth, but I wasn't, I guess. Yeah, we would just listen to Skinny Puppy or different bands like Epilepsy Lizard or some kind of shit like that. And then, yeah, that was it. That was about as goth as I get. But I was always marveled at the people that could go full Darkwing Duck. you know like people like that dark winged duck yeah i think the people that like could be like whoa like this person like how did they get to school do they flew here themselves like that type of i think there was something like interesting about it yeah yeah and there was always like there's such an allure i think about that sort of woman or yeah i would probably say woman more because I think it's like a there's something interesting about a goth person what is it what is it about goth people why is it like a like the loose screws probably or what is it like why do they what is like the the the calling towards like is there like a code of conduct or something I mean there's got to be um some childhood stuff right I mean I know for me I I, like I said, I never felt a sense of belonging even within my own family unit.

1:36:28So I remember discovering music and then not necessarily seeing myself, but like there was a reflection of emotions happening. Like when I like I love The Cure and Suzy and the Banshees, Depeche Mode. And I think like lyrically and just like this, the soul to it, you know, I feel like a lot of people are sensitive in that sense. but, and then they just like take it to the, you know, to the outward expression of that. But I don't know. I, I just, I just like it. I, you know, I've always. Maybe that's it. Maybe like a way to be seen too. Cause I guess it was an outlier. Like I grew up in a small town, so.

1:37:07But it's kind of not. Cause like. Right. Cause you have your own group then. Like, is that what you mean? Well, I mean, I don't know. I. I'm not judging. I'm just looking at it. I'm like, it's just interesting. Like even this morning when I was getting ready, I was like, you know, I feel like I tend to dress very, I cover all the time. Like I don't, I very rarely show my tattoos at all. And I was like, you know, I'm going to change it up. I'm going to go see Theo today and I'll just wear short sleeves, you know? But I feel like I would always get tattooed for myself. Like I just like to look at images or I like what it looks like with the appearance of it.

1:37:40Um, I, in the middle of nowhere in Indiana, like I dress like this every day, like, and it's like, but it's not for anybody else other than why are you laughing i could just see how many men got like pulled up back at home like honey i seen a damn apparition down there that damn this neighborhood's going to shit so really i think there's something interesting about or no there's some look i think a lot of men i remember in our town a lot of men would go and cry over by the win dixie in their truck i remember why i don't know why but we would go ride our bike over there sometimes. It was like a sad place.

1:38:19I think men would just go sit over there and be sad sometimes. I remember seeing that. But I think there was something very alluring about a goth woman to me. It seemed like a siren, you know, like in that book? Yeah. For Odysseus? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. That's what it seemed like. There was something like, what's going on? Yeah. This is different. It's different. You know? I think it's... Well, it's brave to be different. I think so. That may be like, well, yeah, was an element of like, this feels brave to me. Like, I'm just interested how somebody kind of leans into that or how they, you know, not that they're joining a group, but it's like, what, how does that kind of, yeah, why does, why does one goth, you know?

1:39:08Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I just like what I like, I think. And I just do more of that or do a lot of that, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I've never gotten a, you know, I think there's maybe I might have dated a goth woman at some point. I don't remember. But I probably, I think I could have. I think I did. She didn't write you a poem? Huh? I'm sure she did. I'm sure. Dude, I was in the French Quarter the other day with my brother and there's people there, if you go up to them, they'll write a poem for you and your friend. Oh, really? About you? Is it funny or is it like a... No, it was like a nice poem.

1:39:42Okay. They're like, okay, tell us a little bit about yourself. And I was like, oh, this is my brother. And so you tell them a couple little things, and then you have to stand there for about 11 minutes. That's the tough part. Because they're on typewriters. Yeah, yeah. And they're all sitting there on typewriters. There's like a row of like four of them, and everybody's just like, and there's like music playing. Like people are playing the street music, and it was pretty awesome. We had a great time, and yeah, we got a nice little Christmas gift there. That's cool. It was super cool. Yeah, it was real nice.

1:40:07That's cool. But yeah, I was in a class with this lady, and she was. she smoked a lot of weed like her some of her I think she had discolorated teeth from a moment but she was awesome she was like the stoner teacher kind of her alleged stoner and we would write poems in there all day so I think that's maybe where I saw some guy were her teeth they were yellow? I think they had a tint to them I don't want to yeah I don't want to call you know I don't know she could have had a I'm so self-conscious about my teeth lately I feel like in pictures because I wear red lipstick all the time no I feel like I'm looking at yours yours are super white mine are I'm not even going to show them anymore.

1:40:43And I was like, I even Googled, like, why? Because I brush and floss like crazy, and I quit smoking. So I thought, oh, I'm going to get white teeth. It's going to be amazing. And then I just, it's just not happening. I don't know what to do about it. I don't want to get, I won't get the fake teeth that everyone's getting now. It's crazy. Everyone looks crazy. Hey, brother. They look so crazy. I'm like, damn, what have you been eating, buddy? Electricity? Huh? What have you been eating, dude? Damn, you got gloss finished teeth? What's crazy is if your teeth look very nice I would yeah Your teeth are whiter than your skin No your teeth are so white Nuh uh Oh I guarantee you not But this is Everybody watching is like these people have the yellowest Fucking teeth these idiots Um I just won't I'll live with my yellow if it means not having like Chicklet teeth Or whatever everyone has Oh my mom was always brushing her teeth and putting on hand cream.

1:41:40Yeah. Oh, our house could be burning down, but as long as she was getting her hand cream on. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty cool, though, actually. I think, yeah, it was just, you know, she'd always have that hand cream. I like to have it. I think it was probably calming to her, too, maybe to be doing to kind of do this with her hands. I wonder what my son's going to take away from like, that's one of your little core memories, and I'm like, I wonder what... Oh, what his will be? Yeah. Because he's so sweet. He learned the word ravishing. Now he's like this morning, Mom, you look ravishing. I'm like, thanks.

1:42:16You're like, go get in that tree for family pictures. Actually, no. Dude, that would be a neat idea. No, we do a lot of family portraits together. And I love our little family because we look like a little family. My son, he is not scared about what I think. I'm not scared, but spooky to him is fun because it's what he's around. You know what I mean? So his normal is a lot different than normal kids. And we get a lot of criticism about that, too, because he wears black. I'm like, that's what he likes. At this point, he sees his dad or his mom. It's normal to him. So we did a photo shoot for this.

1:43:00It was actually for an interview for a magazine thing. And they wanted to shoot us in front of our house. And so I was like, oh, there's this little fountain. and I had like my little like Tim Burton like parasol thing and um and people just hated it I think they just hated seeing like it bothers them that we we don't look normal I don't understand it's really weird I would think you would think like oh that's cute it's very like Adam's family or something you know well even like we're saying earlier you people want to put and I'll die do it too I want to have a box I want to have a safe space yeah for things to be and I don't want things to...

1:43:36I'm okay with the edges fraying, but I think there's a part of me, even like a system of organization, I think. Because all your brain does is just organize. It's just an organizing tool. So I think when things start to get a little weary, they don't know what's going on. What's your husband like? He's cool. His name is Raphael, and my son's name is Leofar, which is Raphael spelled backwards. Leofar. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Wow. I know. I wish I had a cool name that sounded good backwards. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. But it's cool. You don't. I just read it. I know. Sorry. Yeah, right? Sorry. But yeah.

1:44:14Dinov attack. Yeah. Dinov attack. Dinov attack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's very, you should get your son a vulture or something for Christmas. I bet. Anyway, sorry. Yeah. Sorry. You've been what? Sorry for making so many jokes about your aesthetic and stuff. Yeah. But it's cool. I never. Some of them are very accurate, though. Well, I wish I'd gotten to talk to more people that are goth people. I think I don't ever do. I don't know if I don't go to enough goth places. I think I've always kind of had an affinity for goth women, maybe, I think. Oh, my brother likes goth women, too, I think.

1:44:48Or he likes creative ladies, kind of. Yeah, like artsy. Yeah. And, yeah, I think where I was growing up, being artsy was weird, you know? I think it was like people thought you was gay or something, you know, or you was damn gay or whatever if you, you know, did. Like, I remember if you got good grades, you know, people thought you were homosexual. Really? Oh, yeah, dude. And so it was like, yeah. So I think being brave enough, probably. Yeah. And when I was little to have somebody be, like, unique. Yeah. Like you seem. Like you are. I think that would have been. So maybe that's why I think it's really fascinating.

1:45:28I think it's maybe the trauma. Like that's like like because I think about why does it why do I think cigarettes are sexy? Right. Like because there's this like sense of like. You don't care that you're damaging yourself. Oh, yeah. There's like a not a danger to it, but just like it's self-destructive a little bit. And I think with maybe it's just like, I don't know, like some of my favorite bands and the music I listen to, it's like there's some stuff that I'm like, oh, they're good. But you could tell they just like they don't have any trauma. Like, so it's like I just don't listen to Happy Me.

1:46:07I don't like Happy Me. I don't I'm not attracted to it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah, maybe that's what it's what it takes. I know I've had trauma. I mean, I've seen some crazy things. Do a lot of people mistake you and Dave Navarro ever or not? No. But you know what I do hate is like, because I really want to have bangs. And every time I've ever cut bangs, people say that I look like Cher. And I don't think I look anything like Cher. I think it's because we have a deep voice, right? Oh, yeah. That could be it. I saw Cher at a game. She was running around with a young brother at the Super Bowl last year.

1:46:42Yeah? Yeah. She's dating like a 17-year-old, I think. Or 18. Sorry. Yeah. but um yeah um yeah but I don't look like Dave Navarro take that back sorry you don't look anything like Dave Navarro I was just trying to think if like somebody were like really ridiculous that they would run up and say that dude the saddest thing his his mother got murdered I know I did a portrait of her on him you did yeah no way wow yeah uh the street I lived on is where it happened in Los Angeles oh really yeah and it always I always think about him all the time. For some reason, I guess because of that or something.

1:47:20He's an interesting guy. I never got to meet him. I don't really know him that well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I never got to know him or know anything about him. But yeah, I just remember that. I like Jane's Addiction. Oh, dude, yeah. Bro, a friend of mine threw his one-year-old kid's birthday at Perry Farrell's house, right? Oh, cool. So I knew about Perry. I didn't know. I knew about Jane's Addiction, but I didn't know Perry Farrell, right? Yeah. So I'm over there just kind of lurking Wait, somebody's kid's birthday? Yeah, my friend They didn't have a lot of You know in LA a lot of times if somebody finally gets a nice house Everybody starts throwing their children's parties there Because it's a big enough space So yeah, they did it there And Perry Farrell was in there And I didn't know, I was just kind of loitering around in the other room Because I'm hanging out with a bunch of fucking one year olds You know what I'm saying?

1:48:06Well I was just thinking about this the other day Because it was my kid's birthday, right? And he's like super into Billy Idol right now He loves Billy Idol and not even Billy Idol, he loves Steve Stevens, which is the guitarist of Billy Idol. And I just love that my kid thinks he's so cool, you know? And he has this little like plastic red guitar that like he'll be in front of the mayor at the house and he'll make the faces like Steve Stevens. And so I tattooed Steve a while back. I did a portrait of his beautiful wife on him. And I was like, I texted him. I'm like, I sent him a video of my son.

1:48:34And in the video, I'm like, hey, who are you? And he's like, I'm Steve Stevens. Like, you know, like, it's the coolest. There's a picture of him there. Yeah, right? That's cool. Exactly. I'm like, oh, I love it. See, my son gets it, you know? And so I was like, should I? Because my friends were like, are you going to ask him to come? Because I did a rock and roll themed birthday party for him. Like, you're going to ask Steve Stevens to come? And I was like, no, dude, I'm not going to do that. Because I feel like that's one thing that irks me about like L.A. people, that they'll do that when they get weird about their kids.

1:49:03And they'll be like, I want to get, without naming names, I've like dated some people that put their kids on these weird pedestals. and they'll like use their name to get people to, you know? Right. So it's like, I was like, no, I'm not going to. And also like, it'll be weird if he just like shows up and is just hanging out with like a bunch of. And a five-year-old if he's hanging out with a five-year-old. Yeah, or just, it'll be boring for him, right? Yeah, it's like, it's not like him and Steve, Steve needs to take a walk and talk about their careers or whatever together. It's like, yeah, that part I think would be kind of the strange part.

1:49:33I think it'd be really probably sweet for your son. Even though I did ask, I did ask Leofar, I'm like, hey, what would you do if Steve, if you hung out with Steve, He's like, I'll take him to the pirate park because there's like a pirate ship park there. I'm like, oh, cool. Show him your Sonic the Hedgehog toy. Did you? But one time, one time, a long time ago, Kirstie Alley hit me up. Really? And was like, hey, my son, True, is like your biggest fan. And he's having and this is when he was really little. He's like an adult now. but um we're having a Kat Von D themed birthday party and she showed me the cake and she's like she's like I know it's weird and annoying but do you think you could come over and just like surprise them and I was just like Kirstie Ellie's so cool you know like I loved her you know and I was like should I go over there and I was I was tattooing that day and afterwards I just rolled up and it was just so awkward because it was just like hi and then you're just like I don't have any tricks like you know there's nothing to do so yeah oh there's nothing weirder than when you realize you don't have a skill like an actual like yeah skill set like big balloons or something unless you start tattooing little kids you know um dude i my best friend scott his aunt his aunt worked with kirstie alley and we went out to maine one time uh-huh why is that that's where they live at like out on islesborough island really so we got to go out there and we got to go eat dinner at her house one day.

1:50:59Oh, cool. It was pretty cool, I think. That's cool. Like, memory's not that great, but I think it was pretty great. Yeah. And she had a tennis court that was, like, kind of in the ocean on these rocks. Really? It was literally in the ocean. So it was just, like... So cool. And being on... Maine is so, like, you know, it's, like, so just, like, yeah, we'll see about that. You know? It's got that fucking grit in it. Yeah. Stephen King grit. Yeah, a lot of fucking domestic abuse up there as well. I'm not... pointing fingers, but you could point them anywhere up there and you'd be right. But yeah, I love that place.

1:51:34Portland, Maine, have you been there? Portland, no. One of my most favorite cities. Oh, really? Yeah, I didn't know it would be amazing and it actually blew my mind. Is there a place that you really like? I'm not going to say it because it's uber goth. Oh, it is? Transylvania? No, I would say like Prague was my favorite place. Oh, yeah. Yeah, just the gothic architecture and stuff. And also I love Beethoven and like, I'm going to be a nerd right now, but one of his apartments is there. And so I went and like took a picture in front of the apartment and everything. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think if I've seen anybody's good death place or a place that's like, have you ever done any weird like rituals or something?

1:52:17I'm sure people think that you've done some. No, no. But my friend and I, we used to collect pictures at cemeteries all around the world, which I thought was really cool. Yeah, I think my two favorite cemeteries that I've ever been to, well, there's three, but they're obviously in Paris. There's the famous one where Edith Piaf and Oscar Wilde and everyone else is buried there. And then there's one in Argentina that is like the coolest one ever. And there's like this huge wait list to get buried there. But it's just the most monumental mosques or whatever they're called, but super cool. You just walk and see all the architecture.

1:52:58Yeah. And New Orleans is like that, too. I went to the New Orleans. It was good. But it was right after the Hurricane Katrina. A lot of the body parts and things were - Are back up. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people coming back to probably get money from the government or whatever. Even bodies were like, you see an arm coming out of the ground. Like, give me a check. It's just that kind of city, I think, over there.

1:53:23What else do you want to do? You've had an interesting life, Kat. Yeah. and look I know some of the things we say like being able to leave Los Angeles and do that kind of things we've at least had enough been able to like I don't know I sometimes wonder does that seem like egotistical you know I mean I never want to put down like LA because I love LA you know like I love the dirt there I love my friends I love a lot of aspects of it and the weather being able to go to the beach if you want ugh the beach Oh, yeah, that's true, Mom. Yeah. That's your arch nemesis. Yeah, the son. I forgot about that.

1:53:59Sorry. You got to put me back in that little box with a bow on it. Yeah. I know. What if your name had been Kat Vitamin D? That would have been so ironic. Well, you know, I thought, like, what if you and I would have gotten married? Then my name would have been Kat Von Von? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, damn, this lady is interested looking. But even crazier, she's got dyslexia. Oh, who's that stutter? I heard a stutter, yeah. The stuttering Icelandic chick? Yeah, she's something. Oh, that's cute. Yeah. Oh, there's some pictures that we had of some tattoos that we wanted to just look at.

1:54:40Is that okay for a minute? Okay. I'm sure people have done this a lot. Do I have to say bad things about them? No, no, no. Okay. We can just say whatever we want. Oh, but I want to ask about your tattoos. Oh, yeah. So you are getting inked out. What is it? Is there a term for it? It's really fascinating looking. It reminds me of one of those hairless cats. Yeah, I have hairless cats. Yeah, I've been blacking out all my tattoos. And so I'm in the process. I have like almost 80 % of my body done now. Oh, my God. Yeah, but it's not going to look like I'm wearing a scuba diving thing. I'm going to have these black flowers kind of, you know.

1:55:14So how long does this process take kind of to do all that? I think I'm up to 40 hours now. so but but I mean I've done like the arms yeah but in increments I you know I go and I can't sit for more than two or three hours and there's this guy in Philly that um he like specializes in it but it's funny because you know when I first got into tattooing was during a time when there was no tattoo shows or anything so it was like you would not get hired if you had a face tattoo or you know what I mean it was a different era and then I think when like certain celebrities started getting tattooed like the Drew Barrymore's and the Angelina Jolie's like it started kind of bringing it to the like if you had a tattoo a cute one it was okay you know and then the tv shows like blew up and then everybody has a tattoo now and it's kind of boring but um but I feel like ever since I started blacking out my tattoos I feel like I went back to the time where people hated tattoos again because people just do not like this they like they're very confused by why I'm doing this every time I post progress shots it's always like why are you doing this to yourself like this is so ugly like this is you know I think it looks for some reason I I didn't know what I think it looks nice I did too I like I like very interesting yeah it's almost fascinating in a strange way like it's like like the inverse of something yeah exactly you know it's like that car it's like carb I don't know what it is um but it's yeah it's uh I'm not I don't like pain And so I just numb myself up, and he sits there and tattoos me.

1:56:53When you say numb yourself, what do you put on, an analgesic or something, or you do a pill? Topical anesthetics, like a cream. Does that work, really? Yeah. I mean, it saves me like a good an hour and a half or something like that. Yeah. No, I can't do pills. I can't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I can't do nothing like that, boy. Nope. I don't do no pills, bubby. Yeah. And so how much Now you're going to get 80 % of your body done No I'm going to do all of it Your whole body is going to be in a In dark ink Your whole body is going to be in dark ink Yeah But it will have like sections that are Okay so parts that aren't Yeah yeah yeah Oh interesting Wow it's almost like It reminds you of like stained glass Or something for some reason It will look nice I'm like, like people need to trust the process.

1:57:47It'll look good at the end. Yeah. If anybody has an eye for something that's unique or trying to do something new, I like that. Yeah. It seems like you would be at least granted that ability to experiment. Yeah. Oh yeah. Here's a video of you right here. Yeah. So that's like my last session I did. Wow. Ooh, what is that? Boy, is that a damn cake cutter? That's 40 needles. Yeah. Damn, brother. That thing. Ooh. Wow. Yeah. That's cool. Have your folks been to visit your new place? My dad has, yeah. My dad's my contractor, so. Oh, he is, huh? Oh, good. You can bitch at him easier. And what about your mom?

1:58:32She lives in Southern California. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Are you guys close or not? Not as close, yeah. But I think, you know, when I had my son, I feel like she likes being a grandma. Oh, she does? Yeah, I think so. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's one thing that's fascinating about kids. It gives your family a chance to regroup a little, I think. I remember when my niece was born, it was the first time that our family started to have any semblance of a family. Oh, really? Because we all had one thing in common that we cared about, and it was undisputable. And so it was like other things start to kind of bloom from that a little bit.

1:59:09That's cool. Yeah, that must be traumatic hearing people's stories when they come to tattoo because some people are coming with a story, huh? Yeah, every single one. I don't think I've ever tattooed somebody that just, you know, was getting tattooed out of boredom or anything like that. Yeah. A lot of our therapists in the world are getting, they're oversaturated with pain, I think, from other people. Yeah? Yeah. What do you mean? I just think there's a lot of therapists. A lot of my friends that are therapists, they are oversaturated with people, you know, because even if somebody shares their story of uncomfort or pain, it still lands on somebody.

1:59:40Yeah. You know, and I find a lot of my friends that are therapists are starting to struggle because they are like waterlogged. Yeah. With other people's like trauma and sharing of it and stuff. Yeah, it's going to be a heavy job. Well, that's what I thought. When you said it about tattoo workers, I never thought or artists, tattoo artists. I'd never thought about that. Yeah. I mean, I love hearing people's stories. So I'm always very welcoming to or I was welcoming to all that stuff. So, you know, it never bothered me. But I know that a lot of tattooers didn't want to. Didn't want to hear it. Yeah.

2:00:10What would they do? What do you say? Quiet tattoo time only? No, I just think that like, I think when the TV shows came out, people saw it as an outlet for therapy, which it can be, you know, but some people aren't equipped emotionally to do that. You know, for me, I'm like, I, I can talk about anything. I don't care. Yeah. You know, and I ended up studying books on death and everything just so I could better understand grieving processes and stuff. I'm not a therapist by any means, but you know. Well, these days, anybody who will listen to somebody caringly, I think, is better than half. Sometimes it's better even than half the stuff we have out there.

2:00:46There's a lot of shit therapists out there, too. Yeah, yeah. Because anybody can do it. Yeah. You just have to go to school, and then they'll let you do it. Yeah. That's like crazy, dude. Yeah, I wonder how much of that works. Yeah. But, I mean, there's a lot of great therapists, too. But you have a lot of therapist friends? Yeah, a lot of friends that are therapists, and you just start to see that they're getting... I start to notice a lot of them having a tough time. And it's like, I think a lot of that is just them taking on that people's pain, you know? And I'd never thought that tattoo artists hear a lot of it.

2:01:15Yeah. I just never even thought about it. Yeah. I mean, different types, I'm sure. Like, if you're doing, you know, dragons all day, I'm sure it's not the same experience. What's the toughest part for somebody to get a tattoo on them? What do you mean? Toughest? Like the hardest part? Yeah. I think like some people assume that like if you have like a fatty area it's not going to hurt as much but it's more based on your nerve setup so you know your spine you're going to have a lot of nerves branching off of it so places like your lower back or your butt like things like that are pretty sensitive but like your butt cheek is sensitive I remember like the crease where my leg meets my butt was fire oh god that seems scary The back of your kneecaps, like, ugh.

2:02:04Do you think there's something about the pain of getting the tattoo that is also part of the... I don't know. I don't... I never... I'm not one of those people. I know there's, like, kinky people. I never, like... I was... That's not their thing. I don't know. I have a hard time with it. Yeah. I don't like it. Anything else we can think about or talk about? Did you ever find that video on Macaulay Culkin? Yeah, I did. I did. I did.

2:02:31I just thought that this was interesting. I'd like to thank Brenda.

2:02:39You are absolutely everything.

2:02:45You're my champion. You're the only person happier for me today than I am.

2:02:53You're not only the best woman I've ever known, you're the best person I've ever known. You've given me just all my purpose. you give me family you know and after the birth of our two boys you become one of my three favorite people you're somewhere in there but I love you I love you so much so yeah to wrap things up and in the spirit of the holiday season I just want to say Merry Christmas you filthy animals and his life is like there's a part in the beginning of that where he still seems like a kid and a man. I never heard his speaking voice as an adult until now. Yeah. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about, Kat?

2:03:43Is there any other endeavors you think about in your world? Do you think you'll go back to tattooing, or do you still do it? Is that a weird question? I don't know a ton about tattooing. No, no, it's cool. Yeah, I think I'll always want to tattoo until my eyesight goes or something, but I don't know if I'm interested in doing, um, like I, I just, you know, I, I stopped doing tattoos for money decades ago. It's been like, you know, almost like 15 years or something. Like I just, I just tattoo my friends, you know? Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause I think, uh, the dynamic is, can be pretty intense sometimes if you're tattooing like people you don't know, you know?

2:04:24so because you're like in a room together intimately for like you know hours stuck in there sometimes it's been a nightmare being stuck in a room with somebody uh i'm never alone but like usually when i used to tattoo strangers but uh but now you know um i just tattoo my friends do people like say they hire you for like a specific a guest like is that kind of thing happen as a tattoo artist like when you get to have a claim as a tattoo artist do they say like I want you to come and do my tattoo. I want to hire you. How do you book an appointment, you mean? Specifically, does that happen? Some people might...

2:05:02Commission? Commission, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it kind of works that way. When I used to take appointments, it would be more like they'd have to show me what they wanted to get and have a little bit of the backstory, that kind of thing, and then we'd have a booking process. But now do people, does it ever, you get a ring from like a prince of like Nottingham or something and they want to, does that happen to? Yeah. And I don't like that. Okay. I don't like when people like, like want me to go to them. Cause like, first of all, it's like you're creating a sterile environment. And so like, I don't want to do that in your kitchen.

2:05:39You know, I've only done that like a few times for, for my friends, friends, but like something about like, I don't know. I don't like feeling like a, like a stripper or something. oh so okay there's something about that then oh yeah that's interesting I would hate to be a stripper I would be so bad at it I don't like people seeing my I think like my butt sometimes like sometimes if I hook up with a woman or something I'll walk out of the room backwards really? I don't think there's anything wrong with it nothing is wrong with it just know that when you stand up after we're done here it just makes me nervous I think because I know I look at people's butts sometimes.

2:06:22So I'm just like, dude, so I just got to stop looking at people's butts. I'm self-conscious about that stuff too, to be honest. Like I feel like I, even in, in photo shoots, I'll always try and conceal myself somehow. Yeah. I was like hide behind things, but. Yeah. I love to be high. Dude, I play I can go seek. Dude, I go hide. I'd fucking leave. I'd go home, dude. My buddy's out there looking for me for three hours, bro. Fuck him, son. That's life. You better get used to it, buddy. Yep. Thank you so much, Kat Von D and everybody. You just, you know, you can just find her wherever you usually find people in.

2:06:56Best of luck with your new home. I want to see when that tulip garden is going to be going. Yeah, you'll have to come up. Yeah, what's the ETA on that thing? I think in spring is usually when they come up. Yeah. Boy. Yeah. That's going to be interesting. Oh, you got to get a good scarecrow in it. Yeah. Maybe not. Yeah, you could. Yeah. You don't want to. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. That's all good. Kat, thank you so much. Yeah, no worries. Thanks for having me. Now I'm just floating on the breeze And I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take...