E486 Border Patrol Chief Chris Clem

26:03Try Blue Chew free when you use our promo code Theo at checkout. Just pay$5 shipping. That's bluechew.com promo code T-H-E-O to receive your first month free. Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Blue Chew for sponsoring the podcast. Were things getting worse in Mexico? Was that also a reason like where is there something happening in mexico that we don't know that people were like okay we have to get out of here that was causing more people to come no no and in fact uh there's been a there's been an evolution uh and change and and i don't know if evolution is the right word but a change in demographics over the last decade or more again when i first started it was mainly single adult mexican nationals we started seeing influx yeah a guy with some sandwiches and water coming to work coming to work it's what it was right um Then we started seeing an uptick in Central Americans, you know, the Northern Triangle, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala.

27:04We started seeing that show up in the, you know, they were always coming, but it was, we started seeing an uptick in the mid-2000s. In the 2000 teens, really 2012, 13, we started seeing a big change of family units and unaccompanied children and mainly Central Americans. In the last five or six years, it's been a world problem. I was the chief of Yuma from December of 2020 to December 31st, 2022. So just over two years as the chief of that sector. Rarely did Mexico or Central American countries make my top 10 daily or weekly numbers. It was all over the world. I led – and so that's been the phenomena that's changed over the last few years is – and that's another misnomer that most people think it's a Mexican problem or it's Central America.

28:03No, it's not. It's people from all over the world coming in to this country. Here's an article right here. It says, Chinese migrants pouring across southern borders spark national security concerns. More than 20 ,000 Chinese nationals have illegally crossed since the new fiscal year began on October 1st. Is that true? Yes. Yes. There was – today's Wednesday, so I think Tuesday – Monday or Tuesday, there was almost 270 in San Diego alone. 270 Chinese people. Yeah. Where are they coming from? China? Coming from China to Mexico and up the gut into the United States. So that's since October, 20 ,000.

28:40And here's the other thing too. A lot of these Chinese nationals and a lot of the people that we're catching and we're seeing down there are single adult men, like 18 to 45-year-old range. I was in Eagle Pass, Texas right before Christmas, and I was down in Lukeville, Arizona right before Christmas when those places were really popping. And there'd be 1 ,000 people on the ground there, 800 would be single adult men. Wow. And the other 200 would be families and some kids. So does that mean that it's getting back to the traditional like element that you're talking about? No, no. These are people – a traditional element would have been a single adult Mexican national.

29:15These are single adults from Mauritania, from New Guinea, from West African countries, from China, from just you name it. They were coming from all over the world. And it's also important though. This is how they get here. They fly in to Mexico City or Cancun on a tourist visa. And then at least when I was in Yuma, they would fly from Mexico City to Baja, California on that same tourist visa. And then they would take a shuttle bus to the border 45 minutes away and then come across. They're still doing that and they're just coming up different locations. So they fly from all over the world into Mexico City.

29:58There is still lots of groups that will fly into South America and go up through the Darien Gap into Panama and into Central America and work their way the traditional migrant route. But a lot of them are flying in and they're really crossing the desert for 45 minutes maybe. Oh, they're not – yeah, nobody wants to work anymore. Yeah, they do. I mean nobody – yeah, it's like even when it comes to migration, everybody's just cutting corners or like taking the easy route I guess. But, um, so that's unbelievable to me that it's so diverse. Yeah. So what are all these guys doing? Like, are they like, are these people whose families have been here and they couldn't get here to them who have been waiting for a visa?

30:41Are these people who are, um, need a job and they have a skillset that they, something has happened in their country, like religiously or like with a change in government or something and they don't have, like, or is it bad people? Is it okay? Or is it good? Is it all? Who is it? It's really a potpourri of all of this, right? So you hear the term asylum seeker thrown out a lot. Many of these people are not seeking asylum. Okay. And what does that mean asylum seeker? So that has been a narrative change that a lot of people on the progressive side, open border mindsets, is everybody's here trying to seek asylum.

31:21They want a better life. Well, we all want a better life. But there are certain standards to meet asylum. Asylum means you are pretty much being persecuted for your gender, your religion, your political affiliation. Living in a bad neighborhood, not finding a job, getting beat up by a gang is not asylum. It may be a rough life, but they're - Right, that's Jacksonville. So they'll just basically say, everybody is asylum. That's not true. Okay. And by the way, there are two types of asylum. And this is, I'm going to get too much into this, but there's an affirmative claim where you are leaving your country because of you're being persecuted for these reasons.

32:03And you fill out, like, I am seeking asylum. Like I am filling out, I think it's a 595 form and I fill it out to the, I need asylum because I'm being threatened for this, that, and the other thing. And that's an affirmative, somebody outwardly seeking. Let's, for example, you are, and there's a piece in that asylum affirmative claim. It says, regardless of your status at entry, in other words, regardless if you're here legally or not, you can affirmative seek asylum if you meet a criteria. That, for example, let's say you're a student on a visa. You're a student from the Ukraine and the semester's out and your visa's about to expire, but you want to go home for the summer.

32:46But there's a war breaking out in your country and your neighborhood's been destroyed. So you can apply for asylum. And let's say your visa expired because you're waiting to get your plane ticket and now you're out of status. So you're here illegally. But because of the situation, you can affirm the claim for asylum because there's nothing there. So that's a way that is by seems like the way the law should be used. Yes, absolutely. The right way to do it. Something's changed. Yes, you are out of status now, but you can't go back to your country. Your government's in shambles. I need to stay here.

33:20I need to stay in. That's perfect. That's what the laws are for. Right. Your government's killing women. Your government's killing gays. Your government, there's a war. Right. And I can't go back. But people are abusing that. Right. So, well, that one, not so much. The other one where I was going is the defensive claim, and that's under a credible fear claim. So you cross the border illegally. You are arrested by Border Patrol. Border Patrol process you for removal. During the process, removal is deportation, so you're going to get your hearing in front of the judge. We ask you if you have credible fear of return to your country.

33:58Well, most of them say yes, because then we ask a few other questions and they get to go have a credible fear screening. Now, nine out of 10 people do not meet the criteria for credible fear, but it gives them an extra bite at the apple anytime during the process because they're just coming to look for work. They're from a bad neighborhood or they had an abusive relationship. That's not asylum, but they can use credible fear and asylum as a defensive claim. And that's what the majority of these people that we're encountering are using that as a credible fear asylum claim. And also on asylum, just in general, is you're supposed to seek asylum in the first asylum country you step foot in.

34:44So if you - It would be Mexico. It would be Mexico, which is why the policy of the remain in Mexico, the migrant protection protocol, so many people were coming into the United States after passing through multiple countries that were asylum countries, but they were claiming it, oh, I want it here. Can you send people back based on that? Or can you reject people based on that? So what we did under the Trump administration is we created the Migrant Protection Protocol and said, all right, you're here. You passed New Mexico. You want asylum. You should have claimed it in Mexico. We would send them back to Mexico to wait for their hearing here.

35:20When that happened, the numbers just dropped. People realized we just closed that loophole because they didn't want to wait in Mexico because if you were really seeking asylum, if you were being persecuted, you'd take refuge in the first place you could seek refuge. Okay. And some people are flying through multiple countries. Look, if you were from Pakistan and you were targeted because of your religion and you got on a plane and flew to Germany, asylum country. You flew from Germany to the UK, asylum country. You flew from UK to Mexico, oh, asylum country. You crossed the border illegally in the United States, oh no, I want asylum.

35:55Okay, you're playing a game here, man. Yeah, it may be the better place of all those countries, but if you're using asylum, you should have got off the plane in Germany and said, I need help. I need to seek refuge. And then again, and that's the loopholes that some of the policies that we had in place. And the numbers, and I'm gonna tell you the numbers because you can see where all this works. Let me just take this here. So once people can just say, I'm here to seek asylum, does that limit the border patrol agents do you then have to follow a script like there's no like once somebody says a certain thing like do you then have to go by a script and there's nothing else you can do yeah so the great question and so we're processing somebody for what we usually call a notice to appear in other words you're being you're being processed for an appearance in front of a judge to be removed or make your claim is and we ask them if you claim fear if If they say no, it's just check a box.

36:53No. And you continue to process and you would turn them over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement for detention if there's spaces to hold them. If they say yes, it is five additional questions for us that we have to answer. And I don't recall the questions anymore. They used to getting it. Yeah. So if they say, yes, I have fear. I have fear. I want asylum. We ask these five questions and there's a form that we put on there. And so that case goes into a credible hearing process. In other words, they're going to get in front of an asylum officer to go through that. And again, that just gives them an opportunity to stay a little bit longer until that asylum officer decides, yeah, you meet the basic criteria and then you'll get in front of a judge at a later date.

37:38But yeah, absolutely. When somebody claims fear or claims they want asylum, we have a protocol, an extra form that we fill out and we take care of that. Yeah, so that's another thing that was always kind of a misnomer. It's like, oh, border children are making those decisions. No, we're not. I see. It's five extra questions. It's really easy for us. Yeah, it says right here, unfortunately, a growing number of asylum seekers are well-versed in our laws and more importantly, what they need to say in order to get a foot beyond the first asylum hearing. As a result, many individuals claim credible fear of persecution in the hopes of being released or allowed to remain in the US.

38:12This creates several significant problems. improper claims clog the system and deny legitimate asylum seekers a swift adjudication adjudication thanks of their claims uh two the u.s government must devote valuable resources to the care shelter and processing of large numbers of people who likely will not be eligible for asylum or similar similar protections and uh number three the longer the asylum loophole exists there will be human traffickers and false asylum seekers who will abuse the system and put their own lives at risk too. Yep. That's, that's, that's. What does that mean? So they're coached that this is the marketing piece of, so the cartel and I'll use the cartel and smuggling organization interchangeable.

38:57I mean, cartel is the hierarchy. They're the ones, the big boss. And each one of them have their commodity neutral, whether it's people or things, they're going to smuggle it and pay for it, whatever. Okay. And they own, they own kind of plaza space along the, what'd you call it? The plaza boss was somebody that owned like the area near the crossings where people are going to cross. And they may not own the land, but they're the mafia there. Yeah, that's basically it. Okay. Difference is the cartel really has got huge influence over so much. But to those bullets – It's a real mafia, not like our mafia.

39:27It was like, yeah, a couple of guys. So I used to kind of compare the two. But the mafia back in the day here in the United States, you wouldn't need a military to take it out. where the cartel is well-armed and well-financed to handle things. And police officers are not going to go take out the cartel, right? But those three bullets, kind of paraphrasing that is, number one, the rhetoric that goes on in our political and media sphere in the United States. When you say rhetoric, what do you mean? Oh, they're asylum seekers. We need to do this. The false choices of either for border security or you're anti-immigrant or you're for immigration.

40:09That means you're an open border person. know. So the bad guys are listening to all this, right? So they hear this, oh, asylum seeker. Okay. This is going to be our marketing point. I'm going to charge you whatever I charge you. I'll give you the information. I'll tell you how, what the things to answer and say. And then you clog the system up. And since there's no room at the end, in other words, there's no place to detain them. Once we've caught them, they get released. And that's what they want because they're in the United States. They are going to find work. Generally, it's going to be below board.

40:44That third bullet is the one that should concern every one of us. If we're really going to make this a humanitarian issue, which it really is, is the human traffickers. Because - Yeah, how real is that? It's so real. So many people do not realize they are in this trafficking vortex until it's too late. There are stories out there and we don't need to even go that way today. But I can just tell you that it is real. It's what I'm pretty much dedicated my life to now, looking for solutions. And we can talk about some of that down the road here. But let me just say this. So many people, well, let's just cut to the chase here.

41:25So these people are looking, are being sold a bill of goods that they're going to be able to come over here and live the American dream. All right. But it's so controlled by cartels and trafficking organizations that you have – they were charging anywhere from$5 ,000 to$15 ,000 a person to come across. People don't have that kind of money. So they're going to have to pay that off. Indentured servitude, whether it's going to be put them in forced labor or prostitution, things like that, narcotics smuggling, all that. So people are paying that. They'll say you'll do it in trade? Yes. Wow. Or they don't know that.

42:00Like, hey, yeah, give me your$20 ,000 for the four of us to come across. Well, I'll have$20 ,000. Okay, well, give me what you got, and I know where you live, and I'll put you to work when you get there and you can pay off your debt. Sounds like a great deal until they realize what they have to do. If what was real, this is real, you'd have families show up at the border in Mexico. They're still in Mexico. through the cartel organization, the smuggling organization, trafficking organization. Say, okay, this husband and this husband are gonna swap wives. This kid's gonna go with this single adult and that's gonna be a family.

42:37You two are now a family. You two are now a family. You're gonna cross in California. You're gonna cross in Arizona. And then when you get released, you play the script. When you get released, y 'all can be reunited. Now - And that made it because if they were families, they faced a different... They would be released. We weren't detaining family units, so they'd combine people. And by the way... They would just be released? Yeah, the process, there's no place to hold family units. So if things were full and you were a family and you came across and you guys caught them... We'd process them and we'd release them.

43:09And just release them into America. Into America, to the nonprofits and the nonprofits would facilitate. So here's what happened. So now, so if that was my wife with some other guy being pushed across someplace else, 100 miles away, I'm going to do whatever it takes to ensure her safety, which means I'm going to play that script. I'm going to pay that debt and pray that I get to reunite with her in the next few days. Right. That's the mental trauma. And by the way, my kids are involved in this. So I'm hoping that I at least got my kid with me or she's got a kid. But they'll separate those families on the south side of the border to control and manipulate.

43:47So I won't say a word because number one, you know where I'm from, you know where I'm going, you've got my family. So I'm just going to keep my mouth shut and I'm just going to play the game. And I'm going to just try to get through this without being discovered by border patrol that this isn't really my family. Are the cartels afraid they're going to be ratted out? Is that what you're saying? Like what? Why would they? No, the cartels really aren't worried about being ratted out. Well, I'm just, I'm curious. But they tell the migrants, if you rat me out, if you squeal, they're not going to get paid.

44:21So we're going to take it out on you. So it is completely mental and emotional human exploitation. So I guess I'm still confused and I don't know why. It could have just been I didn't sleep much. So they'll mix and match the family. Yes. And send them over. Control. You're going to pay me the money that you owe me. Or if you want to be reunited with your family and you can't pay, I'm putting her to work over here. Oh, wow. That's the mind control game that's happening. So much of this was, again, and we were caught up in this as agents too, right? So you'd have, oh, they're separating families or the families are being separated and released.

45:08We didn't know. we had you catch a thousand people in in eight hours you don't have all the time and the resources to to dedicate to ask every question that you should be asking because you kind of pick up on things right when why this the the the the wife is not talking and the guy is giving all the instructions i mean when you have time you can pick up on that stuff but when you have got so many people coming and you're overwhelmed we miss those things and and that's what i used to get asked what would keep us keep me up at night chief and i'd be like well my agents will be in but then the people that we we missed because we know that was happening and when you can't do anything you can't say hey this seems suspect if it does oh yeah absolutely and we would we would bust up these fraud families when we had the resources and the time to do it when we weren't overwhelmed with look theo the numbers let me let me tell you this put this kind of in perspective why this becomes a challenge.

46:03In, I think it was 2019, we had just over 900 ,000 arrests in the southwest border. In 2020, that number dropped to 400, just over 400 ,000 because we put, we had wall being built, we had technology being deployed, we had strong policies in place that were closing loopholes. We reduced the number of illegal entries over half. Well, we had a change of administrations and all that got basically put aside. We went from just over 400 ,000 arrests in 2020 to 1.66 million in 2021. Arrests. Arrests. 2.2 million in 2022. In 23, I think the number was around 2.4. So, and we didn't increase border patrol agents.

46:52No way. So when you look at the number of people, the number of people, it just becomes a math problem. I was, when I was chief in Yuma, the, in 2020, the year that I got there, so federal fiscal year ended in September 30th, we had just over 8 ,800 arrests that year. I was like, this is going to be great. That's, those are fun arrests for board of choice, right? I was just, you know, I just, and not to interrupt you, I guess I am, but I just saw this the other day, and this was in the New York Times, an immigration shift, and it had a graph in here. Can you go down?

47:36Annual Southwestern border apprehensions, and it showed, yeah, in 2020, you were at less than half a million. That's the 400 ,000 I was talking about. And then in 2022, up to 2.21 million. That's almost five times. That's almost five and a half times. And that's only Border Patrol arrests because what they're doing now is they're playing numbers. Those that are illegally arriving at the ports are not included in that. So there's still another 500 ,000 that were released by the ports. But so let's put that in perspective. there's only 18 ,000 border patrol agents in the entire United States. Southern border is about 16 ,000 and the rest of the Northern and the coastal.

48:21So you do that math and you look at shift work, you look at days off. I mean, it's, you're really outnumbered 201 every day in certain areas. So think about this in 2020, we had just over 8 ,800 arrests in Yuma with a little over 900 border betrayals to include myself, right? 8 ,800 arrests. Yep. And it went up to 114 ,000 in 2021. So we went from 8 ,800 to 114 ,000 arrests. And in 2022, it went up to 310 ,000 arrests. And I still had the 950 more or less border betrayals. So we didn't, I mean, I was literally out there as chief, you know, I wasn't processing, but I would be out there with the men and women.

49:06And I go out to the border and literally see 500 people at a time walking through a hole in the wall, you know? And so - And what can you do? Can sometimes you just have, or sometimes as a border patrol agent, are you so outmanned and overwhelmed that all you can do is watch them go by? Yeah. Well, so a lot of these people were given up. Is that true? Yeah. So a lot of these people, here's the thing. The cartel is controlling where they're coming through, right? So they knew they were delivering 200 to 500 people at a time. And were they strategic about it? Yes, absolutely. Andy Reid over there.

49:38Yes, yeah, absolutely. Putting them right there. These people weren't running from us. They were giving themselves up because they were wanting to come to the United States. Here's the kicker. And that's fine. They weren't running. There was always going to be something going on in that group. There's usually a sick person or there's maybe a woman in labor or the agents had to respond. but while we're diverting our resources to handle that group of 100, 200 to 500, what do you think's happening 10 miles the other way? The people we really should be going after are jumping over the fence and taking off and running into the neighborhoods and getting smuggled out.

50:13I mean, that's the kind of things that are happening right now. And here's the other thing. Like let's send 100 right here. And then in the meantime, let's send 1 ,000 over there when there's some response. Yes, so we're gonna put all our resources into that one. The cartel was controlling our border operations that way. In other words - Controlling, oh, they were manipulating the situation. Yep. I'm going to send a couple hundred people here. That's going to get a response by border patrol. Meanwhile, the 10 criminals that are either prior deports, potential terrorists, drug runners, we're going to send them a mile the other direction because all the resources went there.

50:48And that's how this is happening. Look, the gotaways. Those are the gotaways that people talk so much about. There's been a half a million gotaways every year the last few years. And we have no idea who they are. And they're just in the country. They're in the country. See, that's the part. I am all for legal immigration. I'm all for – I don't think it's fair that I get to be born in a place that is like – or that somebody has to be born in a place where they have to suffer or struggle or that they – I feel like people should be able to go. But I do feel like we can have an organized plan because if you don't have an inventory, if you don't know what's on your shelves, you can't accurately offer aid.

51:33You can't accurately have teachers in a community. You can't guarantee anybody's safety. It's like to not have a fair inventory is you can't do anything. if I don't know if there's 20 cats in my house and I walk in and I have food for one cat. Goes back to your plan, right? And that's all we're saying is come through the front door so we can have the inventory. So we can, and that goes back to what I was talking about going to the community. You brought up teaching. My wife's a lifelong educator, right? So this hits home. Let's think about some small town in the middle of America, right? Well, let's talk Covington, Louisiana.

52:15All right. What if all of a sudden a hundred Brazilian families who speak Portuguese showed up in Covington? Because is the Covington School District, is St. Tammany Parish going to be able to have Portuguese speakers there because we have an obligation to educate those children? Maybe there's one or two that could do it. Maybe Linda Green, if she was the teacher, she was good. But think about all people. Yeah, there was definitely some great ones. People from all over the world speaking all these different languages. but those are the type of things that we have to think about right you tax the system now now you have a and now the the students and the teachers in the town probably feel bad that they can't help right so their morale is low they don't know what to do now they're like you know teachers are up at night like trying to learn uh portuguese online just and it's a nightmare and they've in the portuguese people are sitting there like we they probably feel bad they don't know what to do it becomes a deprecating cycle that doesn't get better if we just don't we just want people to come through the front door.

53:14Yeah. So we know who they are. They're invited guests, right? And we should be, and that goes back to the wide gates. We want to invite guests. I mean, I think charity starts at home. We need to clean up our own backyard. We've got homeless children, veterans and all that stuff. I totally agree. But we can certainly invite guests in if we can control it and know who they are, what the strengths and weaknesses are, where they're going so we can apply resources that way. Because not only is it the educators, but the ems and the first responders something happens and they don't speak these languages it becomes a challenge for everybody so again there there is a it can be fixed it's complicated because it's people right if it was if it was easy we'd have fixed it years ago it's it becomes vitriolic and political and it's complex because it's people so that's why it's it's a perpetual cycle that keeps getting the can keeps getting kicked but we've got to figure out some way to stop the leak on the security side so we don't have mass people coming in illegally and then figure out the human side of it to bring people into the front door and invite those guests so we can so they can be proactive they don't want to i don't think they just not all i mean i want to broad brush anybody but i think the majority of them are trying want to do good i mean there's still a there's going to be a good minority chunk of these people that are probably just not doing good we've seen that in new york city right recently the the the migrants that beat up the cops i mean those yeah i mean that we got to get that dangerous goldilocks is up there just running around in the house eating the honey yeah able to just shoot the bears if they come in like that you know and they don't it's not even their huh like there's well one thing it does is um yeah Yeah, this was the case, right?

55:03Yep. Brawl between migrants and police in New York's Times Square touches off backlash. A video showing a group of migrants brawling with police in Times Square has touched off a political furor and renewed debate over a longstanding New York City policy that limits cooperation between local police and federal immigration authorities. So those are sanctuary city laws where certain cities will not cooperate with Immigration and Customs Enforcement. In other words, if this person tells them they're a non-U.S. citizen, those cities pass policy that they're under obligation to report their immigration status to federal officials.

55:42But can they detain them or no? They won't, not because of, not for immigration status. That's the federal responsibility. But there used to be, we have what we call a detainer program. And what would typically happen and what still happens in non-sanctuary cities, if they encounter somebody and they ask them, what's your citizenship? And they say, well, I'm from, you know, wherever, name a country, Mexico or Central America or Venezuela. Do you have any documents that allow you to be here? No. That would be a call to federal immigration authorities. Say, hey, I've got John Doe over here who's an illegal alien from Venezuela, and they would put a detainer on them so ICE would come pick him up after the state crime.

56:23Yeah. If they weren't charged him but he was here illegally, it's the federal immigration. Those are these sanctuary city laws that have been really pushed and shoved down over the last decade. Yeah, the past eight years and stuff. And what are the benefits of the sanctuary city laws? Here's what it comes down to. There is this idea. What are the benefits? The idea behind it is, well, if the migrants are witnesses of crimes or have been a victim of crime, they won't report it to the police or cooperate if they feel that they could be deported. I see. So what they've said is you're not going to be turned over to immigration if you report a crime.

57:08So they're not cooperating with federal immigration. I think that can probably be debunked because there are visas we can give people if you are a victim, if you are going to be a witness on behalf of the state. It took what was – they just politicized the whole thing. Well, it also seems like it's being used as a loophole. Absolutely. It's like another way of like where somebody is like – it's set up for a good reason, but it's taken advantage of. so many of our laws and policies are that way right well it's just it's like at a certain point if you get so taken advantage of you have to start to adjust um the advantages you offer yeah i just it it it goes for humans yeah because at a certain point you're just um you've stressed yourself to you've stressed your population and your people where they don't feel safe anymore um yeah it's and to to have people where they used to they buy a piece of land or they buy a home right and they're raising a family and they can't even go to bed at night without thinking if if there's thousands of people passing through their area yeah and some of them are desperate um and there's no rep like there's no they're not going to face any you don't even know if you can face any criminal charges you don't know who they are right yeah it's like um it's just very scary it's not fair that uh people should have to um live in fear i think we have way too much ability you know um it just breaks my i mean it's just you know we send all this foreign aid it's just it's time to take care of this country for a while and it feels like it's just been sold out to the highest bidder that um that the american dream was just auctioned off years ago and And it almost feels like we're pretending sometimes the rest of us that still believe in it.

59:04I call it the – And I don't mean to sound dour and hopeless. I'm not hopeless. There is a true erosion of empathy that's happening because of all the situations around the world and right here at our border. When you are a multi-generational rancher who is putting food on the table, but now you have to be armed to take your kids to the bus stop because groups are coming in that are evading arrest in certain parts and are stealing your car. cars are breaking into your homes, where a generation ago they were, hey, can we get some food and I'll clean up your stall? I'm just trying to go look for some work.

59:39It's changed so much. So Americans shouldn't have to live in fear. At the same time, the migrants shouldn't be living in fear because they're being exploited just to try to get an opportunity. And that's where it kind of boils my blood when I hear, oh, the humanitarian crisis at the border. But they're not fixing it. They're just talking about it and kicking it for the next election cycle. It seems like they always do that. And that's where it gets frustrating. It's like we need to take care of the people. And by the way, the humanitarian issue is not just the migrants. It's our agents. It's our border communities.

1:00:11It's the people that are suffering in these sanctuary cities. I don't want to leave that topic just yet because you hear the mayors of New York and Chicago and Denver, now they're crying about all this. But they were with their bullhorn a few years ago saying, we welcome everybody. And now all of a sudden they realize, hey, this is kind of a mess. I will say this to defend Mayor Adams to some extent from New York. He sent his team down to the border. We met with him back in 2022 and showed him this is what's happening. This is what's going on. There was a lot of jaws dropping, like, oh, my gosh, didn't realize this.

1:00:44So they kind of knew. But how can you not know what's going on? Yeah, I know. That's what, how do you have no, like, I don't even know what's going on and I know what's going on. Daylight savings time is starting up again for most states. God, it makes me nervous because I just don't even know what's going on. And I feel like my watch doesn't even do, is out of a job. But I'll say this, if you're hiring, it doesn't necessarily help you find qualified candidates for your roles any sooner. There's only one way to do that, and that is ZipRecruiter. Right now, you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash Theo.

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1:03:06Yeah. Like, how do you not know what's going on? bring back that article up of what happened in new york i just want to go through that a little bit more i just i want to tap into this um new york issue again real quick the surveillance footage recorded on january 27th outside of manhattan homeless shelter shows several men kicking officers on a sidewalk and trying to pry them off a man police had taken to the ground police have arrested seven people in connection with the attack though prosecutors dropped charges against one person they say may not have been involved. I think if you don't prosecute or eliminate or get— Well, it's tough because these people are obviously in a state of desperation.

1:03:46They've been kind of released into a place where there's no clear path for them either, probably. So they don't know what to do. And then you've put, but the fact that they're putting the officers at risk, any of that, you got to go. Did you see the video of them when they were released that day after the assault? They're walking and flipping the camera. Oh yeah, they're flipping everybody off. They don't care. So think about it. They all think they're a, hey, so that right there, broad brushes all these migrants. Not all of them are that way. Agreed. I mean, again, fortunately, the second you kick a fucking cop, though, dude, I think it's a bad look to the people of this country who are still trying to obey the laws.

1:04:24Yes. That and uphold them. Yep. That that you don't make a point. You're gone. Well, that's the lack of consequences. Right. These people now, I don't know all their their story, but I know they were they were processed and released and went to New York. um these people um have been yeah get the fuck i don't give a fuck who these people are get them the fuck out to be honest with this this is the this is what we're talking about right this there yeah this is him this is the guy right there dude let that motherfucker loose around son strickland will beat the shit out of that this is what in a heartbeat this is what pisses off the border patrol agents because we've had to process and release these type of people and this is what they end up doing right this is this is not beat the horchata out of that motherfucker right there to be honest with you i just don't like it man that shit is sick right there we've got just a sick way to behave man and i don't mean that against anybody like i have countless mexican friends and all kind of shit i don't need to justify myself but yeah it just there's a total lack of respect and when we don't show any respect for ourselves it is it after a while um people just there's a lack of respect that's going to keep coming man it's like you're attracting it Well, you know, the profession, the law enforcement profession has taken a hit over the last few years, right, wrong or otherwise, from different incidents that have taken place.

1:05:43But right there, when you see that and you look at it and go, this is why some of the cops end up acting the way they do. Oh, 100%. Or they just don't end up responding because it's like, why do I want to go get in this mess right here? I mean, it literally took cops being assaulted, these people being released, flipping off the cameras for it to gain enough attention to where people said, okay, this is enough. Yeah. You know, it shouldn't get to that. Well, it's because the media, finally, these people are in New York causing some trouble. That's what I say. A lot of, if you're going to go to a, go into a, the richest neighborhood, that's the guy you got to go.

1:06:22You're down here battling in the fricking trenches. That's the dude. then you want to then then some things would be adjusted that's the old not my backyard mindset like hey it's fine until you bring it in my backyard right and now i think it's well i think now it's ending up in in new york city it's ending up in backyards where people are noticing it but also the media is extremely it's all one group yeah and they uh they don't want to show the truth they want to live in this fictional world that um that doesn't uh create reality I don't think a lot of times or reflect reality. Yeah. So this, this, the, the, the busting of the migrants, right?

1:06:59So I hate the fact that we had to get to that. Yeah. That's a big thing. So you see this a lot, right? So people, but I don't blame them. I mean, I don't blame these governors, right? Again, I hate the fact that we're there. They, we had to do that. That's because of failed policies coming out of Washington and these states have said enough's enough. Right. So let's back up real quick. Okay. Let's get to that. Yeah. I want to, we spoke to a border patrol agent a few years ago, Roy Villarreal. Yeah, chief. I know Roy, yes. Yeah. Amazing guy. And really, I mean, just awesome guy. And he was saying that one of the issues was then that the legislative part was the issue because they were doing the paperwork on guys, but they weren't, no one was really being prosecuted.

1:07:48People were being re-released. And so then it was just you were constantly arresting some of the same people. Like, what is the problem that you're saying now that like, what are the problems that are holding up the border patrol from doing their job effectively? So it's a combination of things. Right. So, number one, and I think this is a great, great question. And it's really important. And let's talk about the requirements that agents need to do their job. Right. So every administration, and I remember I mentioned earlier, I started under Clinton. Every administration had leaned forward on border security.

1:08:24Clinton brought people on board, hired more people. We had the tragic of 9-11, and that addressed illegal immigration and border security. So President Bush started building infrastructure and access roads. Obama built a lot of wall, 15-foot wall. Trump comes in and says, hey, we are, candidate Trump was build the wall, right? President Trump's, hey, we're going to build the wall. But - Candidate Trump? Candidate, when he was candidate. Oh. When he was running for president, he was build the wall. That was a campaign slogan. When he became president, he's like, we're going to do this. Building the wall was so much more than the actual wall.

1:09:04It was years, multiple administrations of requirements that agents have said we need. That wall that President Trump built was not only was it a 30-foot steel wall where it made sense, it was cameras. It was lights. It was sensors. It was access roads. There are so many places on the border that Mother Nature will, through a monsoon storm season, will wash away and you can't even drive to the border. So we needed all-weather roads. That was the wall system. Right. There was so much more. There were places where agents could stop. There were places where they could sleep, get rest. There was so much to that, right?

1:09:45Right. The wall was the talking point. The system was what was important to us. Wow. We didn't need a wall from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean. Right. Where we needed it was in the urban. So the Border Patrol has decided through our requirements and our experience that there are three operating environments. Urban, where the vanishing point is seconds to minutes. Like literally if they cross, they can disappear. El Paso is a great example. They can, a hundred yards, they're in a neighborhood, they're in a high school, they're in downtown. You get into rural areas, it's hours to, it's minutes to hours they can disappear.

1:10:20And then you get in the remote areas, it's literally days to weeks they can disappear because it's a hundred mile trek through the desert. So where it made sense, we built the wall based on agents required, not just all the chief's requirement. It was, what do you need agents to do your job? sir we need more wall here a double wall here we need cameras so we built that package and that that package was being deployed and was being effective as i mentioned the numbers you combine that with consequences through policy detaining people prosecuting people that took those numbers from 900 000 to 400 000 but by a stroke of several pins under this administration the wall was stopped the migrant protection protocol was turned off this administration uh halted all deportations for no less than 100 days which means nobody was being removed is that true what you're saying yes that's all look at all up it's all executive orders biden's election the foreign-born population has grown spectacularly in millions um yeah i see yeah right there are there are places on the border right now, Theo, where you can drive and see 30 foot wall and then a quarter mile gap with stacks of steel right there that was just left there.

1:11:36Some of it's being sold off for salvage now. Our agents had to drive by spools of fiber optic cable with a trench, but we couldn't deploy it because when they signed up, when they ended that wall, it was the system, the whole package. There's right there. That's human actually. So how much did that hurt morale down there do you feel like? So that was the big kicker. We actually had a - Because these are human. These are our agents. it's like why don't you care about the people who are doing a real job to keep you safe it's so sick in this country how they don't care about people who are really fucking doing a real job man so without border security every town becomes a border town every state becomes a border state because we can't it doesn't stop at the border they're not all hanging out in yuma they're not all hanging out in tucson or they're coming to nashville they're coming around and people are seeing that.

1:12:22You talked about the morale. We went from an administration, the Trump administration, who championed border troidans, who had them at the state of a union, had them at his inauguration parade. Now, Obama had done a lot, you said, too. Obama had. So let's talk about Obama on that one, because if you remember going into his second term, he wanted comprehensive immigration reform, the DACA, which is the Deferred Action Against Childhood Arrivals, which I don't think anybody disagrees with. If you're an adult and you bring your one-year-old kid over and that kid has stayed here all his life or her life and they're graduated high school, you're going to deport them because they're not, you know, that's what DACA was for, right?

1:13:02That makes sense. That makes sense. No one's going to boot that kid. All this kid knows is American life, right? As long as he's not a criminal and doing bad things and trying to contribute, let them stay. But there was the issue also, but there was also, there was another thing that he did where it was like, um, he did DAPA, which was on the parents, now you can bring your parents in. So what happened was he wanted comprehensive immigration reform. The Republicans said, well, we border security first. So he said, okay, I'll give you border security if you give me immigration reform. So he went to bat and started removing people.

1:13:38I mean, he had a lot of deportations under Obama. He built a lot of wall. and then in typical political fashion they argued over the definition of border control operational control of the border and so the left and the right started the political football back and forth what does control mean what's an effective uh level of control obama said okay enough's enough i'm just going to start doing you know uh i'm going to start writing this as executive fiat and do executive orders and i'm going to start allowing people to stay here i'm that and that's what he did and that's when it kind of went look the republicans at that point missed an opportunity and and why because they could have they could have had they could have had more border security and championed some kind of immigration reform because we hadn't had any changes in immigration law for you know 20 years before that so there was an opportunity and to obama's credit at least on the front end now i don't know all i'm not going to get into all the behind the scenes stuff, but at least on the front end, he gave it the old college try.

1:14:36You got, I'll give you security, but you got to give me something in return. And when we've, when we argued on the definitions. Semantics of it. Yep. He said, fine, I'm going to do my own thing. And we're going to start letting, if you were, you know, he started doing his own executive actions and, and that, that was a pull factor. So we started seeing this huge increase of people in the, in 2012, 13 and 14 under the second term of Obama. Why? Because you mean they're, they're seeing these reactions in the news and stuff like that and they're knowing okay now's the time now's the time to come he's not going to remove you you're going to be he's going to reunite families he's going to do all this stuff so people just started that's when it all started changing was in about 2012 remember earlier i was telling you single adults mainly mexican nationals a few central americans in 12 13 and 14 we started seeing this huge increase and i'll tell you a very funny story.

1:15:27It's not funny, but it's a true story. I'm sitting here in Washington, D.C. It is, I believe it is Mother's Day weekend, the Friday before Mother's Day 2014. We had so many people in McAllen, Texas, Border Patrol Station that it was making the headlines. And we were on the phone. It was a lot of children and families. And there were literally hundreds of them in the sally port where you bring them into the station. And Border Patrol stations were short-term holding for single adults. They're not designed for detention, long-term detention. So you had bodies stacked everywhere, sleeping in these, you know, mylar blankets and stuff.

1:16:06It was an ugly scene, but it was, it was the reality. It was out of control in South Texas. We were on the phone with people from Department of Homeland Security. I'm in Border Patrol headquarters in Washington. And we're telling them, hey, this is, this is getting out of control. And they said, well, well, let's think about what we want to do. Let's have a good weekend and we'll reconvene on Monday. And one of the guys that worked for me, he's just like, chief, let me say this. I said, tell him. He says, if you wait till Monday, you'll have a full blown crisis on your hands. Now that was Friday.

1:16:39Sunday, then Secretary Jay Johnson rerouted his plane and went down to McAllen, Texas with his wife. It was Mother's Day. Saw what was going on. on monday he made a secretarial proclamation this is a you got all hands on deck and then by the end of the week the president got involved and said we're gonna do everything we can i mean that's how quickly and we were catching less than 3 000 a day that's that was 2013 and 14 3 000 a day was a full-blown crisis wow and now we're at five times that yeah well so for most of last year we We hovered over 10 ,000 arrests a day. Right now we're sitting around 6 ,700 arrests a day.

1:17:21So now we're at twice that. Twice that. It was a full-blown crisis under Jay Johnson and Vice President Biden. And fast forward, we've doubled that, yet we won't acknowledge the crisis from the White House now. Wait a second, what happened? And then in between, you had President Trump who tried to fix it and was making huge progress, only to be kind of the – yeah i mean the media hated him oh yeah well that was even though now some of the the democratic policies are turning into the republican policies they're like coming over because at a certain point i there's no argument against organization there's no argument against like investing in our infrastructure and wanting to have this machine run well it's like Like, you know, you asked about morale and that's kind of where we were going.

1:18:14So let's think about that. One of the biggest morale killers for us was in September of 2021 in Del Rio, Texas, the horse patrol incident that people would talk about. And you could probably bring that up. Yeah, we had over 16 ,000 people showed up in Del Rio, Texas in a matter of like three or four days. Now, I'm over in Yuma dealing with a large number of people, but just not that many in three days. all the resources were shifted down there. And our horse patrol, which is our traditional, we started that, we were gonna be 100 years old in May. Every agent had a horse back then. And I've ridden horses.

1:18:53Horses are great tools on the border. They were keeping the chaos organized. People were going back and forth to Mexico. They were setting up, vendors were setting up on Mexico, selling them tacos and food. Like food trucks? Yeah, food trucks, right? As we were trying to organize, all this chaos. So this one particular subject grabbed food from this family and was running across the river. The horse patrol, and like you can see in that picture, comes down there to try to round him up, right? The image that was taken, the actual still photo, was iconic. The horse in the river, the cowboy hat, the split reins, the migrant run.

1:19:42And it was a beautiful image. It was captured by the secretary, the vice president, and the president as they whipped those migrants. And the president of the United States said, I promise you, they will pay for strapping those people. And he made that motion. Number one, the person that took the picture said, there's no whips. Nobody was being whipped. this was there's the image right that's a split rein that's the guy controlling the horse trying to grab this guy who just stolen stuff from people and he's running away from the agents right that's an agent accosting somebody who's stealing yeah so and maybe for desperate reasons but stealing well yeah but it was yeah so you're stealing lunch from a family so that's that's if you've ever ridden horses and you split reins that's how you control the horse right so we knew all that and and this was something to hear the president say they will pay wow i mean i i was a thousand agents yeah the agents are gonna they're gonna be in trouble for this the cameraman said there nobody got whipped this was they didn't it was a good distraction from the chaos that was happening right you know let's shift it to the bad border patrol agents as opposed to my bad policies that allowed 16 ,000 people to come in in three days.

1:20:57You want to talk about morale killer when the commander in chief, the president of the United States in a country where you're innocent until proven guilty says they will pay when the facts were, they didn't whip anybody. They were doing their job and - Throw his own border patrol under the bus. Under the bus. And so, I mean, I was a thousand miles away going, oh my gosh, my agents were just like deflated. And not only the agents, but let's think about the agent's parents and their loved ones who are going, they're down there trying to do the best they can. The president just called them out. Now, if they had done something wrong and they had beat somebody like that on camera, yeah, there's a consequence for those agents.

1:21:35But that wasn't the case. That's somebody doing their job. It's like at some point you have to have people do their jobs. So the morale just tanked from that. It was already tough with the flow. And we expect under every administration, some kind of change. And we figured it would be a few months. We didn't realize it would be that long. Then it just compounded and got worse and worse. And actually, you know, the following year, I think we had 14 border patrol agents commit suicide. And we had one of them in Yuma. And I'm not going to say that it was because of the border crisis, but I could say that not being happy at work, feeling demoralized and not having a purpose is a contributing factor.

1:22:17I'm sure there's financial, emotional, physical issues that they were dealing with. But when you can come to work where it used to be, hey, I can go out there and make a difference. And now I'm being relegated to transportation and babysitting. There's just no happy place for them. Right. And yeah, you take away somebody's purpose. We had a great thinker in here, John Vervakian. He talks all about purpose. Right here, it says between 2007 and November, 2022, CBP, is that California Border Patrol? No, that's Customs and Border Protection. That's our parent agency. So DHS, Customs and Border Protection, U.S.

1:22:52Border Patrol. Okay, Customs and Border Protection has lost 149 people to suicide among the highest rates compared to other law enforcement agencies. I just don't understand why there's no support. I don't understand why you have to beg for support. I don't understand why you give people a job and give them all this training. Yeah. but then don't even give them the fair environment to do their job in. Right. And then look down upon them when they're doing their job just for what? Like I just, it's just unfortunate. And you want your law enforcement, just like you want your doctors and your teachers to have their head on straight and head in the game and not distract, at least minimize all the distractions while they're doing that.

1:23:43because, you know, number one, if it's a doctor, it could save your life in surgery. If it's law enforcement, it could protect you and save your life in an event of a tragedy. And if it's a teacher, you want them to educate you so you can make your own decisions as you learn and grow. We have to support all our military and law enforcement and first responders in that mental health resiliency world because it's so important because we need them. And we need to recruit the good people too. So we need to offer that like, hey, not only are we going to expect you to do your job. And Theo, I'll tell you too, I'm from old school.

1:24:19You're going to roll your sleeves up and get the job done. But it's okay now to talk about it. Like, okay, what I'm dealing with, how I feel with that. I'm not saying we need to be soft on all this stuff because we still have a very difficult job. And you've got to get dirty. But it's okay to talk about what's bothering you afterward. Or, hey, I wasn't 100 % today because of this. All right, how can I help you? That is okay. You know, we all grew up and get some dirt on it and go back in there. Right. And that's OK. But we can talk about it now. And I think that's the difference in where we evolve professionally and we grow as a leader.

1:24:52That's where I saw I couldn't make policy changes under President Biden, but I could make operational changes. So I can devote some funds to mental health and resiliency with my workforce and bring people in to champion our agents and tell them the same thing as chief. I would say something like, okay, yeah, chief, that's just box checking. You're the boss, right? But when I bring in an NFL player to come in there and say the same thing, like you guys are heroes. Thank you for doing what you're doing. It changes. They come to where they're happy. Like, hey, somebody appreciates us. And so just little things like that, you know, it's cliche, but thank a cop.

1:25:27That's what you want to do because you want them. On your side. And nobody, by the way, nobody hates a bad cop more than a good cop. And so we're not going to tolerate bad stuff amongst our ranks, but there are so many good people out there, whether it's a border patrol agent or a domestic law enforcement or an FBI agent. There's so many good ones doing good work. We've got to champion them because what are the alternatives if we don't? A nightmare. Complete chaos. Yeah, and I want to say that too to people out there who are in a position where you're a teacher, where you're an officer, you're a sergeant, you're a community worker that isn't, you're not rewarded as well financially as you should be by your environment, by your city, your state, your country.

1:26:13I just want to say, just hold on, just, just thank you. And just, you know, just, just know that citizens, they feel that with you, you know? And, um, I don't know, maybe I'm just kind of getting preachy or weird. I don't know. It just makes me sad, man. It just doesn't, cause it doesn't add up. And I think people are tired of, uh, even nice people are getting like, fuck. Yeah. It's that erosion empathy, right? That we talked about. So look, we understand that we can't always pay people in their their their their bank accounts more money but we can pay them in that emotional bank account by thanking them oh 100 that's important we had some we had a uh a garbage man on dude legend bro yeah um and he said the best thing you can do go out there once in a while thank you garbage man he said they never even see anybody nobody's doing awake they're out there doing the long haul buy him a sixer way knowing yeah there he is right there man you're right so uh chris let me ask you i want to just before we move forward i know like i want to think about some of the political stuff you know because you hear a lot of things right like being in an election year right now it's like you start to see the political kickball like you were saying being kicked around of the border right it's the bit the border the border immigrate you know you start to see a lot of that happening and one of the things that you hear recently is that that uh The Democratic Party wants to allow people into the country to be able to get them to be able to vote, even by whatever means, to be able to get them to become Democratic voters.

1:27:56But also I was thinking, is there a value in like the Republican side and also letting it be an issue? Because then they can say, hey, this is an issue. So you have to vote this way. So so those are two things that I hear kind of and that I think about. What is that like? Like, would you is that something that border agents feel at all? Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, we did not want to be in the limelight and not be in the political sphere, but we are because we're on the news all the time. So let's dissect this a little bit. For the Democratic side, it is all about victim of the poor migrants. We need to help them out.

1:28:41They're being exploited. We need to bring them over, give them a better life, right? That's a feel-good story, right? Now, there's some truth to that. There are victims and there are people that want to – but that becomes a feel-good story. The Republicans will say, hey, look, it's a security issue. They'll talk about security. We need to save our country and secure our borders to prevent terrorism and criminal aliens and drugs and all that stuff because that's a real problem too. So they're both real. They just present them as false choices. Like you can't have one without the other. And if you want one, then you're against the other person.

1:29:11And that's the divisiveness that this country has become is you can be pro-security but still have lawful immigration. The other piece too is there's a – if you utter this, people will say it's kind of a conspiracy. But you have to start kind of thinking about where are they going. Why would you allow upwards of 7 million people to come in here? And one theory and that people will float around is, well, not necessarily to have them vote because your only citizens are supposed to vote. But you know what? Census determines representation and ultimately electoral college numbers and things like that.

1:29:55So if you can flood a Texas and you take it from red to purple, you get more representatives that may vote swing to a district that could be a more Democrat. I see. So if you feel like your party could influence to get more electoral votes. Or representatives. Or representatives. So if you feel like your party could get more representatives because there's a larger population in that area and you feel like you got the ability to get more players in the game, then you're going to be pro that. That is like without the truth, without somebody saying, well, here's why we're letting 7 million people in.

1:30:36You kind of start floating these ideas. And I'm not saying that that's the case, but if you look at it, if you have a state that is split 50-50 when it comes down to Republicans and Democratic elected representatives, but you can put in five more million people into that state. And the next time they redistrict or do a census and, okay, well, you get to increase the number of representatives and it's leaning one direction or the other. You're going to lock it. And look how close the House is right now. Yeah. One extra or two extra Democratic officials now on the House swings everything to the party of power.

1:31:17So there that I mean, again, without somebody telling you, hey, why are you letting all these people in? Why are you bogging the system down? Someone floats that idea. It's like, well, I mean, if that's the truth, it's evil genius. Great. At least we know now we can work the devil, you know, versus the devil you don't know. Right. And that's because for the life of me, I can't make heads or tails of why this would happen. So as an agent, you're like, these people should be given a hearing and removed because they're not going to meet the merit. Instead, we let them go and we house them. But then it's about control because then it's about a sickening few people with such control.

1:31:59Like where is the value in that as a human being? It's like the people that are controlling shit have no, do they have any fucking feeling? I'm just like, what is even going on? I think because why would you let all of these people suffer? Not only the people who are being, um, who are, don't, don't have a clear path to, uh, to asylum or to residency or to comfort or to peace. They're not in peace either. If they're having to sleep hiding behind something to not get arrested all the time, you know, like, and also the families and people who are just, um, citizens of the country. It just, first of all, my wife tells me this a lot.

1:32:40Clear is kind. We need to clear, send a clear message that, you know, and, and so if somebody's sitting here for seven years before they get their first hearing, that's not clear. Yeah. They don't know what the results are going to be. They don't know if they're going to get to stay. They don't know if they were going to get a work permit. That is not very kind, right? No, it's not. And then I also, to your point about this sick, demented, whoever's pulling the strings here, they want servants over citizens. Because you know what? Citizens will stand up eventually. We will speak our mind. But if I can bring you in and give you handouts and control you, you are going to be my servant and you will do what I tell you to do.

1:33:19I mean, again, I don't want to be a tinfoil hat wearing person, but without the facts, without somebody telling me what the plan is, you start inserting these things. And some of it kind of starts making sense because you can lean things, you can control things if you have a bunch of servants. Well, it's where conspiracy theories really – that's how it starts. I was talking about this with a friend yesterday. It was like, well, when the news got bad and got not news and it was just like the news was just trying to say what it wanted to say and not just give the facts, that's when conspiracy theories start because people have to make sense of things.

1:33:57Right. So it's your brain's only function is to organize and to make sense of things. That's all it's supposed to do. And so a lot of conspiracy theories, it's like, it's just— Not adding up. Yeah, when things don't add up, you have to—the equation needs to make sense. So that's the only reason why a conspiracy theory even gets created is to make things make sense. And when things aren't making sense anymore, then the conspiracy theories could be what does make sense. And oftentimes these days it is. Yeah. And the naysayers just throw that back at you. Well, they don't know what they're talking about.

1:34:33They're a conspiracy. Well, no, one in one is two. It's not three and it's not adding up to two. So what's the deal here? You know, you know, it is kind of crazy because we've seen such an evolution of, you know, what's happened at the border. Right. I've talked about that. And, you know, there's solutions out there. It's just, it's, you know, we just got to be able to, I like to say, get the extreme left and the extreme right, take extreme recess and get some common sense in the middle, right? To start coming up with some solutions. Well, and they're not doing it. I mean, they just had the Mayorkas guy.

1:35:07Who was the? He was the secretary, just got impeached. Yeah, he just got impeached. But that was impeached by the House of Representatives, right? Right. Which is only, the Senate's not going to pass that. So he's not really going to be impeached. No, it's just like President Trump, just like President Clinton. They were impeached in the process, but they weren't convicted, so they're not removed. And so, yeah, it's – Right. People have given up. The American public has almost given up on all of this charades of bullshit because you can't even follow it. Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas has been impeached by the House of Representatives.

1:35:39A cabinet secretary has not been impeached by the U.S. Congress since 1876. the office of senate majority leader chuck schumer who is the worst i think said mayorkas impeachment trial will begin later this month so this is just going to be a whole big hoop raw process man and it probably will not happen yeah unless they need to have a patsy to make it look like they're going to do something different yeah so i mean you can have the trial and it's still going to require two-thirds of the senate to so that would be everybody on the republican side and half of the democrats saying he's convicted right and that's not likely to happen if this even happens and it's easy to say it's likely to begin in a month but you've got all these other world events happening um you know it again it's um that's the politics of it you know and this is a classic example of of uh of an election cycle last go around they ran on gonna impeach the guy it took two years for them to finally do it um and did it change anything no it you know nothing and they ran on the Russia shit.

1:36:42I just, it's, it's, I'm okay with letting people make their own choice, right? I'm people are, you would think people can get a sense and trust their instincts and find a leader that has enough of their commonalities, things that they believe in. Right. Um, I don't think I ever fall into like identity politics where I'm going to vote for somebody just because they're a one party or this party I've voted for people from both parties. um back to choices think about everybody wants choices until it comes to politics then they they they forced their just their choice on you yeah we want it we want to be pro-choice in all things in life right we want to have options doesn't matter what what those options are but we should have options right then it comes to politics oh no you can't have a choice yeah back to the political politicalization of the border i tell you i had so many congressional delegations under president trump i couldn't i was the deputy chief in el paso number two the congressional delegation that is where a group of congressional members representatives will come down uh and they want to hear and learn it's a they it's a field trip for them right sometimes their caucuses like hispanic caucus or a border security caucus or you know african-american caucus they'll they'll be a group of like-minded mainly usually one party they go down there and they they want to hear what's happening um oftentimes it's oversight committees will go down there under president trump in el paso i kid you not i couldn't turn around without tripping over a congressional delegation wanting to point the finger at big bad trump and what he was doing and all the people that was when the aoc was said they were drinking out of the toilet all that kind of stuff was when i was there in el paso completely ridiculous but you know what under this administration when i was the chief in in yuma i had two democrats come down to the border one was uh democrat scott um he was he came down but but he was uh i had uh mark kelly the senator from arizona who worked with me to try to fill some border gaps so he we it took us 18 months but we finally got something done and i had uh gary johnson out of the uh homeland security committee uh senator johnson from uh from michigan only two democrat sitting representatives that came down to the border a lot of republicans but they did they wanted to ignore the problem i had some phone calls from Senator Sinema, but never came down there to meet with me.

1:39:07Only two. But when it was President Trump, I had hundreds of people. So why aren't more coming even just because it's one president or the other? That shouldn't determine why one. Because one side doesn't want to talk about the problem. The other side wants to blame the problem. So under Trump coming down to blame, just like the Republicans come down there now to point the finger at the Biden administration. So it becomes – so we have to – Right. That's what I was saying. It's like the Republicans also, part of them is happy that it's open because they can say, look, this is the problem. So it gives them also – There's a handful in every party that really want to try to solve this.

1:39:48But unfortunately, they're the minority piece, right? There's people that just don't want to deal with it, right? Part of it too when it becomes political is it goes back to that victim boogeyman thing. I can run on the emotions every two years as a congressional representative, Senate's every six years. But as a congressman or woman, I can say, if they would have just voted for my bill, we would have solved this. But if you elect me next time, we'll get it done. And think about this has been going, we've been talking about this since 9-11. 23 years we've been putting border security, immigration controls in the forefront.

1:40:25And we still can, and it's the worst it's ever been. it's the worst it's ever been right now yes it's the worst it's ever been and we've been talking about it now let's let's be clear 9-11 was the worst right that was a separate event but that triggered us talking about securing our border for 21 years or 23 years now do they even have tsa at the border well they're at the they're at the airports but not when you're walking across no that's us that's border patrol so do if people come in illegally do they take their shoes off or anything like that or no? So, so well, look, if they, if board patrol is in Canada, you've come in illegally, we're, we're arresting you.

1:41:02We take, we do all, we take all, we take, we check everything. Oh, I see. So there's either people that are, that are legal that are coming in and they are probably doing their paperwork and all that. Yeah. So if you come into the airport, then you're going to be dealing, you know, if your TSA deals with domestic stuff, international, that's the custom side of things. When you come into an airport or through a port, eventually they're going to inspect you. And everybody's subject to an inspection when you come in. When you come in illegally, you're arrested. And then you go through, just like if you were arrested in downtown, they're going to take you in, they're going to patch you down, they're going to go through your stuff.

1:41:37They're going to inventory your property and all that kind of stuff. We do the same thing at the border, which is a challenge when you're arresting 2.2 million people every year and there's no place to put you. What percentage of people get arrested and sent back? That's very few right now. No way, really? The ones that get returned back immediately are going to be Mexican nationals because the continuous country, right? They're going to send them right back. There are some, oh, there's just, man, 95 % of the people I caught in Yuma were caught and released. In New America? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:42:11You know, let's, you know, let's talk about a couple of things. And what do you just let us? Yeah. Here's, here's, here's, here's a very important piece, right you've heard this about you've heard the term vetting they're not properly vetted or you know they're being released without vetting well let's let's let you in the in the audience know so anytime somebody is arrested by border patrol we are taking their biometric data we are fingerprinting them we are photographing them as long as they are 14 years and older there's laws from uh tender age minors okay the problem with that is the record checks are only based on information that we have.

1:42:48So if you are a serial killer in New Guinea and you've never been caught and we don't, there's no system of record, we're not going to know who you are. We're going to take your fingerprints and photograph and say, well, there's no immigration or no criminal history, excuse me, no criminal history in the United States. We have no place to hold him. So he's going to be processed and released. But meanwhile, he can go about his business. So you can't check with another country to see? If they don't have the data in our system, that's the problem. The process the agents go through, perfect. No one gets released or everybody that gets arrested gets the data taken.

1:43:25But if there's nothing in the system because we don't have a relationship with our country, that goes back to the Obama and Trump travel bans. the reason why there was a travel ban on those countries they did not have a vetted system of record for us to make compare notes to see if these people are good or bad so if you are from a country if unless you're like in some kind of interpol record that matches with us if you've never committed a crime in the united states we're not gonna know who you are so you could be an ms 13 gang member that has no visible tattoos that we can see in another country another country and never been arrested in the United States and not in some kind of Interpol database, we could theoretically release you.

1:44:08That's why detention is so critical so we can hold on to them to make sure on no uncertain terms that who this person is, what's their intentions, what's their background, who are their sponsors, where are they going to go? That's why holding people and doing all the extra checks is so important. And by the way, the databases and systems are only as good as the databases and said, they'll garbage in, garbage out. Sometimes there's delays. Sometimes there's a system upgrade. And when I ran your check today, it came back clear. I released you two days later. It came back as a hit. Well, we released that guy.

1:44:50So that's why we have to detain folks for – the process is to detain them until they see the judge. But that's never going to happen. The pipes are clogged. Yeah, pipes are clogged. There's way too many people in line. When you release someone, right? You release them back into America. What do they have to do then? Yeah, it's great. You're going to love this. So we process them and they get a, they have to check in when they, within 30 days of their, or where they said they're going. So if I catch somebody, somebody caught somebody in Yuma today, they said they're going to Nashville. We would give them the information for ICE here in Nashville, okay?

1:45:29So when they arrive in Nashville, they're supposed to call and check in and say, hey, I'm John Doe. I'm supposed to report to you. And there's that. There's also some ankle bracelet monitorings they'll put on so we can track and follow. But it's basically on the honor system. And we don't have the ability to vet that location where you're going. There are places where you'll find 200 people using the same address. But here's another kicker for everybody because we're all paying the price at the pumps, the gas, the grocery table, everywhere else. I was spending close to just over$400 ,000 a day in my soft-sided migrant processing facility with medical, food, laundry, and migrant care services.

1:46:21Migrant care was really the minors. So if they were children, it wasn't agents having to babysit anymore. where we actually hired people to do that. That was$400 ,000 plus a day. There was six other southwest border sectors, or six total south, that was kind of using the same model. So$2.5 million, I don't know the math, not too quick. But when we, they'd be in our care for maybe two to three days, and then we'd release them. We don't release them to the street necessarily. We release them to a non-government organization who will take them in, and then they will help facilitate if they want to go to Nashville.

1:46:54Do you have a plane ticket? Do you have the means to get there? If you don't, we'll help you get there. If you do, then we'll get you on a bus to Sky Harbor and you can fly. Those organizations are getting reimbursed dollar for dollar from FEMA through DHS grants. So now we're paying for the shelter and processing facility. You guys are paying for it up front. And then you're paying for the non-government organization. Well, the non-government organization is a nonprofit? Yes, but it's getting reimbursed for the monies they spend by the government. So the government's paid twice now. Oh, and by the way, the sanctuary cities said, hey, we need$5 billion to handle these migrants that are being dropped off.

1:47:33So in theory - So it's all a money laundering. Yeah. In theory, we could be paying for the majority of those migrants up to three times. So it's a money laundering. Yeah. It's basically little Ukraine in America. I mean, so when you're looking at the cost. Now, remember, a couple years ago, former Speaker Pelosi said that we didn't have the money to build a wall. But the states have now said we want$5 billion. We wanted$5 billion to finish the Trump wall. We would have sent$100 billion to another country. Again, charities should start home, right? Yes, it's just fucking unbelievable. And here's the saddest part is, Chris, is that it feels like as a voter, it doesn't even matter anymore.

1:48:11That's the part that starts to feel like this doesn't – like what has to happen where these sick people – here's an article right here. The Biden administration and the U.S. Congress have directed more than$75 billion in assistance to Ukraine, which includes humanitarian, financial, military support. And I wonder where all that money is going. There's no – I don't believe – this war doesn't even seem like it's – No one's talking about it other than the money was spent. Right, it's a facade. All we're talking about is the money being spent over there. It's a Zelensky – I believe it is a money laundering.

1:48:47That's exactly what I believe. I'm crazy about that with the number you threw out and what I was talking about as far as how much we're spending. And a spirit laundering of the Ukrainian and Russian people. I think they're being laundered mentally and emotionally. Not that I'm in favor of paying off people's student debt. But if we just focused a little bit of energy here in the United States with the money that we're spending everywhere else. And I get it. We have to invest around the world. I'm not saying not do that. We could help people. My other problem I have is the homelessness and the mental health issues we have facing this country.

1:49:24What would$75 billion do right now to help the homelessness and the homeless veteran problem and the mental health issues we're facing? What would that – it would be a life and game changer. Meanwhile, we're just printing money to go someplace else. But the ones that should matter the most, the American people, the people within our borders are suffering for that. And it's frustrating. And here's why. it is frustrating, but here's also why it's frustrating because it's not like I want to say that, Hey, we're fortunate enough. We shouldn't help other people. I don't believe that. I believe that if someone is in a place of power or possibility, they should do what they can to share it.

1:50:05Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I believe that you are killing the very people you're killing, You're killing the spirit of the people who do that work by making them feel unsupported, by making them feel like their country doesn't have any tradition, that it doesn't have any purpose, that the borders that people died to protect don't even matter. you're killing the will and the spirit of the people that are going to do that that outreach and work and so you're going to get to a place yes where like you're saying you just have servants yep that that if they even want to do that as opposed to spirited American people that want to help others I'm with you and I don't want I don't want to keep saying it but it goes back to that erosion of empathy and not only empathy, but just the spirit.

1:51:00Like you said, to roll up the sleeves and get the job done and go to work and fight for what's right, you just kind of numb them. And I think that's what the plan is, right? If we can create that servant mentality, we're like, all right, fine. I can't beat them, join them. And that's not what we were founded on, right? I mean - No, it's not. But it's a bill of goods that people are starting to think that they were sold that's not real. And that's why I think people, that's why I think you have to start voting for people that have some real morals and ethics and some ethos. I think you got to start voting for those people who believe that, yeah, because if you don't take care of this, this can't do anything.

1:51:39If you don't water a plant, nobody can see it or smell it or enjoy it. And it can't be a part of growth. You're exactly right. I think that that's so powerful to, again, to have just a moral compass and an azimuth set for the right. It doesn't mean we're going to agree, but it's rooted in good faith, right? And that's the problem. And we become so addicted to just immediate response or some kind of illicit of a response that we're not putting in the work anymore. It takes a little bit of effort to do that. If it was easy, we wouldn't be in this problem. It takes hard work. And just like are the men and women in the Border Patrol.

1:52:26I go back to that was my wheelhouse in my life for 27 and a half years. Out there walking in the desert in 120-degree heat, climbing up in the mountains when it's sub-zero temperatures, sludging through the snow on the northern border, going through, you know, through rattlesnake infested desert out there to track somebody one more mile. Because number one, you may rescue somebody or you may have gotten a drug runner or you may have gotten a potential terrorist. But if you just didn't put in the work, they're going to get away and they could cause harm. And that's what, you know, what I love about what was my profession for, for a better part of my life was it wasn't easy.

1:53:11It was rewarding and it was hard work, but at the end of the day, the scars, the limps and all that stuff was worth it because of the camaraderie and the spree decor that we had because we were doing something good. And, and it's, and to have that minimize and victimize and not supported is tough. We are a resilient agency. The men and women of border patrol ride to the sound of gunfire. We just need that shot in the arm every once in a while that says, hey, keep up the good work. We got your back. And we get that from a lot of people. We just need that from a broader branch because for all the things that are wrong for this country, in order for us to get it right, we have to protect our country, both domestically through border security and then militarily be safe you know, around the world.

1:54:01Cause we know that there's fires everywhere. Um, and that starts at the top. Yeah. Not only in your house and every day when you go to work, but the top of the country, which is our, the white house has got to be able to establish that. And we're not seeing that. And that's, I think that's, I also believe, and I I've been around the country the last few months and continue talking about the border around the country. And I, and I'm noticing the pendulum swinging back to like, hey, enough's enough. When people are dying because of fentanyl overdoses, because it's coming through the border, because we won't shut it down from China and from Mexican cartels and it's coming in and it's killing people.

1:54:38When you have 300 opioid related deaths a day and most of it's fentanyl related because it's coming through, because our overworked border security apparatus is not being able to do the job to the extent it can, people are getting fed up. You know, it's not, it's no longer a border issue. It is an American issue. And I think that people are seeing it and they're seeing the, the, the, it's being shrugged off at the, at the highest levels. And I think, you know, it, it sucks that it gets to this point, but if this is what's going to have to happen, this is what's going to have to have people have to got to wake up and make sure that we stop electing morons and get people in that have a, a good head on their shoulder that are pointing in the right direction.

1:55:19We can disagree. That's okay. But I guarantee you, if people will just pause for a moment and sit there and listen, they'll find more common ground than they have differences. And I think that's the spirit of America. That's the spirit of what makes this country tick and why people still try to come over here every day. Amen. Yeah. Yeah. No, I look, I think that you, yeah, you have, I'm just amazed that people would sit there in places where they're not even brave enough to go to their own vehicle because they're scared, but yet they would vote for policies and people that aren't going to make sure that they have police and street lamps.

1:56:02I'm just sick. I think our souls are starting to feel sick. And I don't want to get just stuck in that. And I know you don't want to either. um so what is what do solutions at the border look like what does that look like yeah no great question i think what we have to look at and uh it kind of it's it's great timing because we've talked about kind of the evolution of what's happened over the the past you know nearly 27 28 years of my life the the adversary has has changed right so traditionally traditionally people would come across you had your migrant workers we talked about earlier but then you had the criminal side of the smuggling operation, whether it was narcotic smuggling or people smuggling.

1:56:45This is people, the smuggler crossing the border, guiding the people to a vehicle, jumping in a vehicle and driving to the next city and then going to wherever they were going, right? What do you mean driving? Who do you mean? Yeah, yeah. So literally you would have like vehicles. I mean, this is all organized. So I'll use Arizona as an example. So a smuggler would come down to, from Phoenix or Tucson. Okay. There'd be somebody on the American side. On the American side, leaving a vehicle. Oh, I see. Coordinating with the South side. So it's a two day walk to this vehicle. The smuggler is smuggling through the desert, avoiding border patrol, guiding people to this vehicle.

1:57:27And sometimes they all get in together and drive off. Sometimes it's so well coordinated that they know they're going to show up in this window, this one hour, and the smuggler drives in, picks them up, and then they drive back to the next city. That's how it used to be. And there's still factions across the border where that's happening, where you're having these pursuits. I'm telling you, it was so fun back in the day when it was really cat and mouse games. We would chase these people for hours or shifts. Yeah, all those things on TV, people being smuggled. Theo, some of the funnest things - Y 'all use lassos?

1:58:04You don't use a lasso? No, no, no, we don't do any of that stuff. No, we, we, handcuffs. And, but what I would tell you what would be fun and, and, and again, give it context. You got to realize you're chasing somebody. That's the, that's the thrill, right? It's part of it, right? The adrenaline. Cops and robbers. Yeah. You would get pursuits and they would be, you know, you're going high speeds or sometimes low speeds. And then they would bail out and people would. It was like hamster Shawshankin out of the back of a pickup truck, my friend, bailing out everywhere. right? And so you would throw that vehicle in the park and you would give foot chase.

1:58:41You had to go after the driver. It's like when the pinata bus opens. That's right. You got to get the big snick up. Yeah. So our goal was to go get the driver because that's who we could prosecute. And then you go round up everybody else. But that was, that was fun. And you would even almost kind of like you and the smuggler would almost kind of like, all right, all right, you got me. Oh yeah. And so, and that was before we had all the databases and systems to double check that this person has been caught. Now we would know if we caught you 10 or 100 times. But that was some of the most thrilling part of my job.

1:59:14Yeah. It was rewarding because you were saving lives if you end up rescuing people. But then they'd be fun. Like, you know, you'd pick up the two by four or the plywood on the back of a pickup truck. And it's like, hey, man, I can see you. And they wouldn't look at you. But you would get vans with. You're it. Yeah. I'd get 30 people in a van. Oh, yeah. You get 10 people in a Ford Fiesta and you're like, how does this happen? What was really funny is you see these older model vehicles. I'm like, my vehicle, I wouldn't trust driving it to Michigan in the middle of the night. These people didn't care.

1:59:46They were going. What was the number one vehicle that got left down there, by the way? Was there one vehicle that was always like? If you saw a Suburban, any kind of SUV, that was always just a giveaway. way. You're driving down a two lane border highway. And then there's next to a culvert, there's a, some kind of SUV. Uh, they love pickups because they could just jump in real quick. Um, so, you know, uh, pickups were very, uh, uh, extended cabs were great because they could put people in the front end and, you know, you could, they would, if you drove by, they drove by you, you wouldn't see anything in the bed of the truck and you couldn't see what was in the back.

2:00:24Um, but we just knew cause you'd see the yellow lights cause they were usually older vehicles and they're riding like this. But we would get into all that. It was so much fun. Or you would track people for days. Literally like you go in, if you're a day shift guy, you're in at six o 'clock in the morning, you're on a trail by seven. You work until three or four in the afternoon, turn it over to the next shift. You come back the next day and like, hey, we're, oh, we pushed it 20 miles. So you'd go out there and work it and then you'd catch them. And it was people looking for work, people that were criminals, gang members, or there were, you know, back then it was the cash crop was marijuana.

2:00:58That was when everybody was backpacking marijuana. Now you don't even catch marijuana anymore. It's legalized in so many places. But it's changed now. It's changed because, again, for years we fought a conventional war, if you will, against a conventional smuggling. Now because of policies and the way things are so interconnected, like people are making all the arrangements now on the cell phones, using online social media platforms. the smugglers oftentimes don't even cross the border anymore all the arrangements are made prior to people getting to the border as i mentioned earlier the large groups are being you know pushed through in one area the other ones are using their apps i'm not going to name the the programs but they will communicate with the smuggler via cell phone and via apps doing dms and, hey, I'm lost.

2:01:52And they will send me a picture of what you see. And then they will text back, okay, you need to go through this way. And they'd put a, they'd roadmap it for them. Oh, so the coyotes or whatever who are bringing them across usually aren't even going anymore. They're either in Mexico or in Phoenix. Wow. Because they, and then everything's done through cash apps and everything else. So we have this beautiful thing called interconnectedness has made the unconventional, it made the adversary unconventional. So how do we attack it? It's one of the things that I'm doing right now, and this is necessarily a big pitch, but the reality is, is there is so much online smuggling and trafficking done on our numerous social media platforms that children are being recruited to be smugglers.

2:02:44children are and and people are being recruited to buy uh uh you know uh illegitimate you know narcotics you know uh you know underground stuff you know hey you want to i've done it we're using oh yeah you can do this on the apps and this is where it becomes so deadly yeah because this it may be pressed in a clandestine lab in mexico as a vicodin but it's they don't have the same sanitary so now you've got residual fentanyl you know dea put out a stat recently like like seven out of ten off-market things have uh enough fentanyl in it now to kill them that's ridiculous so one of the things a solution that we have created i'm part of is is using artificial intelligence and machine learning to target the online predators whether it's human doing that So, yeah.

2:03:38So this is, this is my company that I'm part of massive blue. So we, we basically use deep tech and to identify the, the habits and the process of, you know, look, I worked on a physical wall. Now we've created a cyber wall to protect and target those that are going after people. Right. Like there are, look, there were over, I think in the last seven days, close to 2000 unique individuals posting. sex services in Nashville alone. Yeah. Who do you think those people are? You know, Theo, you and I are close enough in age to remember milk carton, missing kids in the milk carton. You don't see that anymore, right?

2:04:21It's this, it's these people, not only are they internationally being victimized in traffic, domestically. In Nashville alone, that many unique individuals, right? And about 25 % of that stuff is narcotics crossovers. So not only are they selling people and services, there's also drug related. So we have got to take this unconventional approach and use the technology - That they're using. That you use. And we play by the rules, obviously. Wow. But we have got to create that cyber wall to protect our country, protect our community, our companies, because there's all sorts of corporate espionage.

2:05:00And our children, most importantly, because if you think that, you know, kids are upstairs going to bed on a school night at nine o 'clock and not on their social media, do you think the person they're engaging with is really their friend or somebody that they know? This is where this, these predators and, and boy, the sextortion, all this stuff that's going on. You look, that's, I did this for so long that this was where I knew how could I continue to make a difference and not wear the badge and gun anymore is to go after the bad guy in an unconventional manner. And, you know, I think it's going to save lives.

2:05:35It's going to protect lives. It's going to, you know, there's so much we can do with it. Let's use the technology to our advantage. It's not going away. Right. Let's use it to help. And if I can minimize human trafficking online, if I can save lives, then I'm living the best life. How does this company do that? How does your company do that? Well, I'm not going to get into too much of it. You're just saying, but that's where you're headed now. That's where we're heading, right? Okay, so you, and that's where you're headed? Or you also think that that's where we're headed as a border patrol agency?

2:06:06Well, so I would love to be able to get this in the hands of the border patrol because let's think about what's happening right now online. It really takes a person staring at a computer, data mining, just going through websites and going through all, why not use technology? What I can do in an hour would take somebody a week or more. And so this is how we can get this into, we're working with a couple of states and a couple of agencies with this program to help them use this tool. It's a great lead generator, right? It's going to do that. And we're just, we're going to continue to evolve. There's, we love online.

2:06:45We love our social media. And it's a good thing. It is a good thing. But let's put the safeguards and let's use it to - Well, it goes back again though, to why doesn't our country have, And maybe this is me just expecting out of government. I've often said, if you expect anything out of government, you're out of your mind. But you would think the one thing that you would want out of your government, that you would get, is safety. That is the number one thing that people always pay for, is safety. And the fact that they just had Zuckerberg in court the other day, apologizing with no emotion. I don't know if the guy's ever had a feeling.

2:07:25And he's in court because of families that have lost children or had children sex trafficked or bought and dropped. There's just, there's no wall. I don't know why an adult Zuckerberg apologizes to families of online child sex abuse. in an unscripted scene during tense testimony Wednesday Meta Platforms Inc. CEO Mark Zuckerberg stood before a PAC Senate hearing I am sorry for everything that you have all gone through he said Wednesday while facing a crowd of safety advocates and parents holding photos of their children it's terrible no one should have to go through the things that you families have suffered yeah I mean it's unbelievable he's sitting there surrounded by all of his lawyers and it seemed like he didn't have an emotion like it's like it just but that blows my mind why there isn't if how could you are you even allowed to use a fucking i can't even buy a deodorant that doesn't have a little thing on it right that has a plastic thing on it now yeah so that some kid just doesn't put it on or put his mouth on it right but yet you can have an app where some predator can reach out to my fucking child yeah and not go to fucking jail for it i feel like these guys should be jailed you know it's the same with that family the Sackler family that did the opiates with Oxycontin.

2:08:48It's like they killed hundreds of thousands of people in this country. They killed hundreds of thousands of human fucking beings. It's unbelievable. And they didn't go to jail. Yeah. It's unbelievable that, you know, which is again, your passion is exactly my passion when it comes to this. You know, we need to be able to come up with tools to combat this because look, social media, the platforms, the different apps, it's not going away. We're not going backwards. So let's attack it from the front end. Let's beat them at the punch. And that's what my company has been doing. I'm super excited because I think that is a way that we can feel safe as a parent myself.

2:09:24I want my daughter to be able to enjoy the technology that's there. It's part of her generation, but I want her to be safe. 100%. And I want to be able to, we're investing in this to make sure people can be healthy and live life. You know, for every story I can tell you, there's a dozen more of parents that have lost their children on something as simple as I'm ordering this online. It got delivered to the house and I thought it was a Vicodin and they woke up. Well, they never woke up, you know. I met a lady a year or so ago and it's exactly that. Her daughter was dealing with some, you know, recovering pain from – she was a gymnast and her friends were chatting online.

2:10:04She's like, well, you can, you know, you can order this online. And she did. Mom went to bed. This got delivered. to the house. And she woke up, went upstairs to find her daughter and she was dead, you know, and, and she found the, the exchange on, on her phone, you know, and no parent should, you know, it's tough enough just to imagine losing a child, but when you lose them because of something like that, that could be prevented, or at least there could be safeguards. There's gotta be, there's no way they can tell what kind of shit you like to look at and advertise you bullshit but they can't tell they can't keep uh they can't have a little bit more efficiency with figuring out who is able to reach out to children or who children are able to reach out to now i guess somebody could create and look obviously i'm not arguing the other side of it that maybe there's like somebody could create a plat but if somebody hasn't been online long enough with a platform that maybe they shouldn't be able to reach out to children or there should just be much stricter things in place, it seems like.

2:11:10I don't know enough about it. It's a stark reminder that there's evil out there. But it's fucking winning. That's what it feels like sometimes. And that's why we're invested in this. I can tell you that there are platforms out there that will recruit teenagers, and this is very prevalent in Arizona, in the Phoenix area, to get your mom and dad's SUV, drive down. If you're interested to make a thousand bucks a person, you want to make$5 ,000, get an SUV, DM me here. And then that message disappears, right? But now they're messaging and they give them a pin drop and go pick up these five people.

2:11:49Well, now these kids, and most of them are minors, 16, 17 years old, so they haven't been driving very long. Now they're in mom and dad's SUV. They end up picking up 10 people in some remote area near Douglas, Arizona, and they're told, Drive to Phoenix. And when you get to Phoenix, DM me. I'll give you a pin drop. And don't stop for Border Patrol or cops. They're doing 100 miles an hour with 10 people in their car, top heavy. They don't know how to drive because they're young anyway. They're rolling over. People are dying. They're T-boning innocent civilians caught in an intersection, killing people.

2:12:20This is happening every day. And they're using social media to coordinate it. So the smugglers are not at risk because they're - They're not even doing the job anyway. Yeah. Burn the account, burn the phone. There's no overhead for them. Wow. They just used mom's SUV. Oh, and by the way, if you were successful and you got to the drop-off location, they're going to say, yeah, I got your license plate. I know who you are. I'm not going to pay you this time. You're not going to squeal because I know who you are. I know what school you go to. I know what your mom drives. The hook's in, man. The hook's in.

2:12:57Yeah, there's stuff right there. Yep, that happens. migrants kill in pickup crashes, undocumented immigrants killed, chase on border, they killed eight. Wow. It's nuts. And again, back to the solutions. How do we fix it? So we attack it. We have to attack at the front. We still have to secure that border. We've got to plug the leak. Not just what this administration and what a lot of politicians like. They like to give you buckets to bail the water out. Just fix the damn leak. Right. Right? Yeah. But if they fix the leak, then they won't have something to fucking kick the ball around to use as a football.

2:13:29So we keep playing this game. Yes, yeah, exactly. What do you, well, yeah, if you're the board, if you were the, you could make the choices, what would you do? Well, I'd finish what we started as far as securing the border where it made sense, what the agents need. Well, I don't need, again, like I mentioned, I don't need a wall 2 ,000 miles, right? Right. But where I need it, I need it. Right. I need the technology. I need the agents. I need to put some of these safeguards back in place to close loopholes in the existing policy. I would put immigration judges in mass to quick court these people like we do sometimes in municipalities, night courts, right, where you just go up there and see the judge and you know what you're saying.

2:14:07So we can start thinning the herd of this backlog, right? So the legislative side, you need help. Yeah. Is that legislative? Yeah. So we need some laws. Just the laws in the books are good, right? But we need laws to hold the executive accountable to pursue the laws and not have too much latitude. So I would do some things, and we need legislature to appropriate, to fund. You need people to do the processing. Yeah. Well, so that, again, that's kind of one of those things where if we minimize the flow, then we could handle that. Hiring more people to process is a bucket to bale water. It's not fixing the leak.

2:14:49Got it. Forcing them through the ports of entry through better lawful pathways, right? Instituting that migrant protection protocol where they're going to wait in the country they first stepped in for asylum until they can get here or until they can get those kind of things. We can modernize and we can clean them up. A lot of these policies were highly effective. They were a little clunky to start, but they were working. They could have been smoothed out. That's what I would do. I would secure the border first and I would start right away with working on the backlog and then the preventive piece, which would be better pathways.

2:15:22But I would do it by not my circle of friends in Washington. I'd be out there in every all 50 states saying, what do you need to make? And I don't want to sound political, but to continue to make this country great, to make sure that we are doing the right thing for we, the people. and opening that door to our invited guests as we need and see fit, right? We, the country should determine who and what comes in here and how they come in, not just come in in mass and we'll filter through it when we can. That's no plan. Like you've mentioned, that would be the plan. Secure cleanup and preventive maintenance is what I would do.

2:16:05And there's people out there that see that, you know um and that that want to do good they want to secure that we want to find that balance like when you what do you mean when you say that like there's politicians yeah there's politicians out there that i think see this um from uh from a a common sense and compassion have you had some that have showed up like that yeah well uh bobby kennedy there's an example is a guy who's so we've had well let's talk about current oh bobby gives a fuck it's unbelievable you look at bobby and you look at other the other candidates you're like he oh he actually gives he has thoughts and views on shit biden i don't have i don't know any of his policies trump is very like one-handed kind of in a lot of ways you know he doesn't elaborate um biding is not he's just not hell it's just not fair what they keep doing to that man as a senior citizen i think it's sick um Um, but yeah, Bobby is dialed in.

2:17:03Yeah. So I would say this has views. He has views on things. He'll give you reasons why he has, you know, you can tell that he cares and I think he's open to, to whatever, but you can, I just like to have anybody that gives a fuck. I think that's, that's, you're going to see in that, that video that there's actually picture me and what he posted. He posted a couple of things about with me on it today. I'll do this. I'll say this. in the current sitting political pieces, there's for every one that gives a dime, there's a couple that don't care, right? You just get it, right? They're down there for photo op.

2:17:36They're nodding their heads. It's like they don't want to solve that as we just talked about so they can pawn it, right? But then there's, again, there's yours truly right there. There you go. Wow, that's cool, man. So when you - Yeah, I'm not trying to sound like a, I'm not some right-wing nut job. I just, that's the crazy part too. They start brainwashing you to feel like you're some far-right crazy person if you just think there should be organization to the fucking program. It's compassion and common sense is all we're talking about. Yeah, I don't want us to not have people here. I don't want us to not have diversity.

2:18:14I would hate that. But I don't want us to have people hiding in the desert who are scared, who don't know what the fuck is going on, who don't know how they can, they don't have a path. Both people need immigrants to have a path. It seems like the current elected class, if you will, and I'll just say the former politicians, current politicians, they present you with false choices. Like you can, and we've talked about a little bit today, you either for it or you're against it. You can't be one or the other. No, that's not true. That's not true. You know, there is some common ground. And that's what I, you know, anybody to include yourself, That's why we're here today that wants to learn facts, to learn about the border or come down to the border and see what's going on.

2:19:00Not just a photo op, not just saying I've been there to check a box, but literally go down there and spend some time. Talk to the sheriffs. Talk to the mayors. Talk to the agricultural leadership, the farm and ranchers. Talk to the nonprofits, the domestic violence shelter. Talk to the superintendent of the hospital who has a$21 million bill from illegal immigration that hasn't been paid yet who's supposed to serve the community. Talk to retired Border Patrol officials. Talk to people that have lived there to find out what's going on, not what one TV show or news station says or the other counterpoints it.

2:19:39Go down there, and that's why I appreciate what Bobby did. He came down there. He spent three days. I spent maybe a couple hours with him giving him my take. That's longer than anybody else has spent. That's longer than the president, the vice president, the secretary goes often. But look, this is somebody, that's what we want. We want those choices. We want that out of our leadership. Whether it goes anywhere or not, you come down there and you listen. And when you listen, you can pause and you can maybe learn and maybe make a difference. And I think that's the critical piece. As a country, as we talked about earlier, we want choices.

2:20:21We want options. We want to look at a menu. We don't want to be told what we're going to do. And so many of our elected, I don't even want to call them elected leaders because they're not leading. So many of the elected politicians, like you said, it's either one way or the other. It's either so strong-handed this way, and that's just not how we are. And so it's refreshing to have people that are actually listening, people like Bobby that come down and say, hey, I want to learn. You know, it's a good thing. And I think we need more of that to make this country better. Yeah. Amen, man. I think, yeah, I would love to see Bobby get, I don't know if most people know if he's on the ballots.

2:20:56I think they're still figuring that out. But it's Trump, Biden, and Kennedy. Those are the options. I don't even think some people realize that Bobby Kennedy is an option. Yeah. You know, I tell you what. I listen to him often. I've had the pleasure. Look, his campaign reached out to me. The others haven't. So I'm, you know, I don't care who you are. If you want to listen and you want to learn and you want to hear what I have to say, I'll be happy to talk to you about it. Yeah, I think he is, the campaign's still trying to get on some of the ballots. But at the end of the day, that's the big three that are going to be probably left when it's all said and done.

2:21:30Don't know how that's going to play out because we still have a primary. There's still one Republican candidate out there, two out there. Haley and Trump are out there. you got biden and you got kennedy haley has some good border policies doesn't she well yeah i think she's she's kind of i don't know who's advising her i i'm certainly not um uh i think she's about securing the border but a lot more openness about it you know than than than you know uh than some of the others i i think that there's uh uh i think at least from trump and kennedy it's like, Hey, we got to secure the border, you know?

2:22:05And I think Haley is saying the same thing, but I just Biden's saying it now too, or their campaign. Well, it's that they're saying it. I'm saying, yeah, the timing is, is, is impeccable, right? Right. The numbers at the lowest he's been border is a number one. So it's definitely a last ditch effort. Yeah. I can't imagine they're going to run. I can't imagine he's going to run for president. I just don't think it would be humane is my argument. I don't think it would be humane to do that to somebody. Yeah, well, you know, what I will say is that candidates and campaigns, they change and evolve over a campaign cycle.

2:22:45So we're still, I mean, yeah, we're months away, but those are long months away. Anything can happen with whether it's the current president or the other contenders. I just glad that we've got, you know, uh, uh, uh, another option out there, you know, I think that's, what's important. And, and, and again, super smart guy. And, uh, you know, I wish him all the best and I, you know, I've always liked the, I liked the underdog, you know, I like, I've always, um, I like the underdog. It's fun to listen to him because he comes, he's smart on the, on the topics, right? And you can't even fucking understand him half the time, but that is just a vocal thing.

2:23:24Some people don't realize that. Some people are like, he's drunk. I'm like, no, no, that's. No, he has a bad e-cord or whatever. But you know what? When you listen to him and he talks about it, look, he told me, he's like, I didn't see this border issue. I thought it was some right wing deal, right? We don't have a country if we don't have this border. I mean, he literally changed his mind in 72 hours of where he was coming from. and to me that's a win and that is successful and that is also someone that is showing compassion and common sense and i've said that multiple times i think that's what what we stand for when it comes down to this border i agree common sense to secure it compassion not only for our agents in our communities but also the migrants and he sees that he also wants to hold mexico accountable and they because they've got they've got a stake in this claim too yeah how How is Mexico benefiting from the current border security?

2:24:23Well, you know, well, first of all, it'd be very interesting how much money transferred to Mexico when Marcus and Blinken went down there between Christmas and New Year's to address the issue. Because all of a sudden we went from 10 ,000, 12 ,000 arrests a day to about 6 ,700 arrests a day. So Mexico - Oh, so you think maybe there could have been some sort of a payoff or something? Oh, they're absolutely foreign aid to help support their micro—that's just money in the coffers. Look, I want to make it very clear. The Mexican people are beautiful people. They are God-fearing, hardworking. They are so— I want to be Mexican so bad.

2:24:59Everyone that I've met and even some of the officials, but the government of Mexico is very, very difficult to deal with. And I'll tell you that I think that a lot of the, you know, obviously there's the cartel influence on things and the amount of money that is coming through that country through smuggling and through just human beings transiting through Mexico to get to the United States is astronomical. You know, when you, and so what I, what I will say is they probably are getting some kind of financial support from the United States. You're not hearing about the caravans anymore, right? They're, they're being disrupted.

2:25:43I'm sure, I'm sure that's what Mexico is doing is caravans of two, three, 4 ,000 at a time coming up from Guatemala. They get dispersed and Mexico is, is taking some, some of the migrants that get returned and they're flying them back to the interior. so they don't have an immediate, you know. Like giving them, like taking them, yeah, setting them back like men's tees or whatever. Yeah, exactly. So if I caught you in San Diego and returned you in Tijuana, you just could come right back. Right. Well, if I caught you in San Diego, returned you to Tijuana, and Mexico flew you to Guanajuato or down to Oaxaca.

2:26:17Yeah, Oaxaca. You got a whole other journey to get back up to the border. So that disrupts that smuggling cycle and gives us a little. So Mexico is cooperating with that, But it ain't happening without a lot of money. So I'd be curious how much arrangements there. And the State Department under Blinken, you know, the State Department has so much money. Well, how about send them$5 billion? That's what I would do then. Send them a decent amount and let's shut it down completely for a while. Yeah, well. But yeah, I don't know enough about how things work. Constitutionally, Mexico does not see immigration as – they see that as a human right.

2:26:50There's no laws preventing. So it's very – So they don't have any laws preventing people from wanting to come here. They don't say, hey, don't do that. Yeah, right. Ah, okay. So that's a challenge, right? So they have a constitutional challenge. So they'd have to do things like we would do, use executive actions as long as it's not considered unconstant. So they've had to navigate some things, but I'll tell you, they did it under President Trump because of the different mindset in the White House. Holding Mexico accountable. If you don't, we will shut this down. I will tear a few. And Mexico all of a sudden complied to establish their own humanitarian national guard and all those kinds of things.

2:27:25In fact, probably had the highest level of cooperation I ever had with my Mexican counterparts. That changed a lot under this administration. Still good people, but they didn't have the pressures coming from Washington to Mexico City to do anything. And, you know, it's just challenging, you know, to ask another government. Look, we should never be in the business of negotiating with another country for our own border security. Not as the American, not as the United States. I get it. Other countries have to do that. That's why we have NATOs and things like that. But the United States of America should never negotiate our security with another country, not here in this hemisphere.

2:28:02We talked about it. We hinted a little bit. The government's responsibility is life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. You do that through a strong domestic security, a strong international security in the sense of our military to protect us. And I'm not saying going into wars, but just protect us. And then a strong economy so we can pursue happiness. It doesn't say we're going to be happy, but if the government would just focus on those two things and they get the heck out of our lives, we'd be a lot more fun. There's some safeguards, like we talked about, that that's the protection piece. But at the end of the day, where does all that money go to, right?

2:28:35I know. It's crazy. That's what's baffling. And it's still, at the same time, we're able to sit in a place that has heat and cool and have water and food and know that we can go eat when we get out of here. And I know that there's a lot of people that's far less fortunate than that in the world. But I again go back to the fact that if we are healthy and safe and organized, then we as individuals can best service other people who want to come to this country to stay or to visit or to work. We can better have a plan of how to make that happen. as a group, but then as individuals, we can service that and be a part of that, which makes you feel like you're part of immigration and you are grateful to share your country with other people.

2:29:34And that is a sense of pride, which gives you a sense of purpose, you know, and a lot of that disappears when there's not a program in place, I think. I think you're right. You know, the, the, the sense of purpose and contributing is important to just, just living a good life. Right. And if we can get our act together as a country and we can, can contribute and, and number one, clean up our own backyard, but then also help others contribute to others to come. Oh yeah, we can do, I just, we can do a lot more from a healthy place. It's hard. It's hard when you're not, when you, when you, when you're in fear, it's really hard to, uh, to do your best and have just raised kids that are, it's just, it's not a, it's not good.

2:30:18Um, and I love, you know, I love you having this platform and I think it's so important to be able to have these type of conversations because when you've got a status, you know, a celebrity status, it's got a podcast or you're a, you know, a rock star or you're an athlete, you know, you, you, you have an audience that is not, you know, doesn't always hear some of the things that are really going. So when you can use this platform that you have to talk about what's impacting people every day, that's impacting this country, I commend you. I mean, look, I love it when I see people like yourself having these type of conversations.

2:31:00It's so important because a lot of your audience, they've heard about it indirectly, but now they're actually hearing it today about this is the real problem. This is, what you're seeing on TV is real and there's not a solution in place. There was a solution, wasn't perfect, but it was working. But now it feels like there's nothing. Yeah. And the plan, and we need a plan. We just need a plan. You need a plan. You do that when you hit your app to figure out how you're going to drive the grocery store, but we won't do it to chart what's best for our country. I know. Yeah. It just, yeah, we need to feel safe so we can operate well.

2:31:37Yeah. I don't think it's a thing where it's like, I don't want anybody to come over here. Yeah. I think it's like, like, hey, let's get this. We think should be in an organized space. so you can come over here and we can be here and everything can work well for the better of the people coming and the better of the people that are already here. Yeah. Um, I would say that, add to that foot stomp that, you know, like secure our border, recruit and attain the best and brightest that we need. Right. Let's, let's have, let's invite people and let's have people sign it for the guest list so we know who's coming, right?

2:32:15Let's have consequences for those that are taking advantage of those people that are violating the system. And then let's have full transparency about what's really happening so people can make informed decisions in their life. People need to know what's going on on our borders because it's impacting them. Look, when the administration is more about securing their narrative than securing the border, that's a problem. That's what I see as the issue to me. I'm sorry to cut you off, but that was something that was very, very important that we have to have a plan. We have to, we have to create the invite list.

2:32:46And we also let people apply to be on that list as well. And just know who's coming in and we control that. Yeah. And the fact that there's only so many visas, it all just, the thing needs a huge overhaul and people know it. And I'm just amazed. I wish I could see a little bit deeper. I don't know what's past the first few shovels of dirt, you know, what's fucking holding the roots of some of this stuff in place, um, that makes people want to keep it the way it is. Some of that I'm a little foggy on. Um, but man, I want to ask you one more thing. If you go to like the border, like you're going to Canada or something, um, and they, when they look up your stuff on the computer, do they know everything right when you go through there?

2:33:27Like they border patrol, like, yeah. So if you're, if you're going lawfully in and out of Canada, they're going to, Yeah. They're running your car, your driver's license, your passport, your vehicle license plate. Yeah, all that data. It's all public information that's in there. Oh, so they just have all of that. Yeah, it's all in the databases, which is interesting because in New York, going back to sanctuary cities and policies, they refuse to share DMV, motor vehicle information, with the federal agents. So it's difficult for agents sometimes to run license checks on vehicles. how do you know who the smuggler is or who this person is that may be going through the border i wonder why they did that though it's just because it was just seen as bad but yeah so if you go into canada and if you go into mexico if you're crossing through a lawful port of entry whether it's an air land or seaport when you present your identification it's going through everything that we've got on you that is a public record so your your your driver's license there um it's always curious because like have you been here before yeah and you're like oh shit do they know if I've been here before?

2:34:31Do I know? Yeah. They'll, they, they know your crossings. Uh, there's, uh, I'm not going to get into it. Well, it's not, it's not anything that's, you know, you know, uh, secret or anything like that, but yeah, we have, uh, we have records checks to know if you've crossed in the last 72 hours or how often your vehicle has crossed. And same thing, there's visa entry exit requirements in law. So we know when you come in and when you leave the country, even if you fly a domestic, sometimes there's a, you know, you can take a, they'll take a picture just to track you yeah you can voluntarily opt out of that kind of stuff but yeah it's it's part of it you know um what one last question why isn't the same problem at the canadian border that's at the southern border who's to say it's not it's just not volume right so let's talk about that um uh uh about 90 percent of the canadian population lives within 100 air miles in the united states all your major cities because it's so much tundra and wide open land Yeah, shout out Windsor.

2:35:25Yeah. Every major organization, terrorist organization, affiliate like that has some kind of tie to those, all the cities in the world pretty much, but in that Canadian population, in those cities, right? So there is a threat on the northern border. Difference is it's not sexy enough because the volume. Now, I can't recall off the top of my head, but I think there was probably only like 8 ,000 to 10 ,000 arrests on the northern border compared to the 2.4 million on the southern border. So because of all the focus on the southern border, we've had to shift resources internally within the Border Patrol.

2:36:06So about – and I don't want to say too much, but during 21 and 22, about half of our northern border agents were down on the southern border. Wow. So that creates a vulnerability. Now go back to morale and resiliency. So in the frozen north, you only have a few months that you can get your house and your life prepared for the winter. So when our agents are being deployed down south, they left their family behind. It just creates a tough cycle. So by not fixing the southern border, you've created vulnerabilities on the northern border. And our coastal, which includes the New Orleans sector, Miami sector, and Puerto Rico sector, those same resources were shifted to the southwest border as well.

2:36:44So we're creating vulnerabilities on our coast. So without plugging that leak on the southern border, you're creating vulnerabilities everywhere else. So, I mean, we got that right-sized a little bit better than we were. So we're not as vulnerable up north as we were a few years ago. We've gotten better. But it's still something we have to consider. so it does if we fix the southern border which this latest bill that failed was all about the southern border there's still a northern border threat yeah i mean again we we you have to think broadly on this yep you got to think broadly and you got to stay positive too i know there's been a lot of like kind of like it sounds dour here and there it's a lot of looking at it and um and you know and even uh we got to stay hopeful though yeah and that's where i'm at with it and um yeah Yeah, Chris, I got to hit an AA meeting, man.

2:37:32Thank you so much for your time, dude. You got it, brother. This was great. Thank you for talking about it. I hope the audience appreciates it. And just stop and think, man, if we can cause somebody to pause a little bit to just take it all in and think about, hey, we can do better, I think this is a win for the show today. And I really appreciate you having me on and talking about something. This is a serious issue, but it can be solved. But we got to roll up our sleeves and get it done. Yeah. Awesome. And Chris Clem, thank you so much, man. Yeah. I appreciate your time, brother. I appreciate it, man.

2:38:03This was great. Now I'm just floating on the breeze And I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take