E513 Louis Theroux

30:42and more than 800 lawyers with over 15 billion dollars recovered for over 300 000 clients that's right morgan and morgan has a proven track record of fighting to get you full and fair compensation if you believe that you have been possibly injured at work or had a something happened to you an injury and maybe wasn't your fault it was there was liability on the side of the company or maybe you're working for? Well, Morgan and Morgan can at least help you figure it out. That's for sure. If you are ever injured, you can check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win. For more information, go to forthepeople.com slash this past weekend or dial pound law, pound five to nine from your cell phone.

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33:29It was ruining my life, man. Made me feel just so much shame. That's what it did. Well, watching pornography has become commonplace today. And oftentimes men will use porno to numb the pain of loneliness, boredom, anxiety, and depression. That's all I want to introduce you to my friend, Stephen Walt. Steve is the founder of Valor Recovery. He is a dear friend of mine. He is a dear friend of mine. And Valor Recovery is a program to help men overcome porn abuse and sexual compulsivity. That's right. Their coaches are in long-term recovery, and they will be your partner, mentor, and spiritual guide to transcend problematic behaviors.

34:13There is zero commitment if you reach out to them. It's just the first step in trying to figure out if you may need some help, if you can get some help. To learn more about Valor Recovery, please visit them at valorrecoverycoaching.com or email them at admin at valorrecoverycoaching.com. The links will be on the YouTube. And again, there's no commitment when you when you reach out to them but I promise you only something positive will come from you reaching out and figuring out if what type of help if any could benefit you thank you yeah I wanted to say yeah I think that there's something very the women here seem like more confident in themselves interesting and it's not a judgment against american women but it's just something that i noticed it just seems like they have their own things going on i think in america sometimes it feels like a lot there's we've created this space where women have to feel like this desperation to be seen on social media sometimes and i don't know if i feel that here and i'm not even saying that i'm not judging the women i'm just saying that that's a that's just something that i kind of feel like we've created in the states more but you live in nashville which is his own culture in its own milieu right yeah it's quiet it's like families um a lot of country and western music yeah a lot of country western music it's fine i i why not new york or la i lived in la for a bit it was too much it just it stayed closed during the pandemic and nashville was open and i didn't want to start paying the taxes in LA and have to, and have it be closed.

36:08And so I was like, I'm going to move to a place that's open. Is there a big opioid and heroin problem in Nashville? In all of America there is now. I did a story in Huntington, West Virginia. And it was, it was, it was, we called it heroin town. And it was one of those places you just arrived, nicest, friendliest people and just a terrible, terrible, I don't, it might be better now, but back then it was about four years ago. ago five years ago a lot of people sleeping and walking kind of sleepwalking a lot of people dying on the streets and then and then they get they get narcanned and then they pop back to life and they're mainly just annoyed because they're like i was enjoying that you know oh because you brought oh they were enjoying the opioids off their receptors and then they're like what'd you do that for yeah damn it let me ride yeah let me ride again it's almost like it's really become the new bull riding.

36:59It's like, I thought you were going to say bungee jumping, but yes. It's like, and then, and then someone like, have you, excuse me, sir, have you taken anything? And like, no. Yeah. And they just can't keep that. Like, I'm just praying. Let me pray for a second. Exactly. Yeah. It's wild. Well, one of the things that really, this is where I think. I'm fine. Would you stop? Yeah. It's really strange. Well, one of the things that started, they didn't even prosecute that family that did the opioids. epidemic yeah the sackler family that's fucking but they sued them they got a civil suit but they said what does that mean they're fucking riding around and eating banana pudding or whatever while people are dying in the fucking they even hit a speed bump they're like driver be careful and like that's an opioid man that we hit you did it you know it's like and once that's that's one of the things that's really started to make people in america be like there's nobody looking out for us anymore that was a huge part of it i think i bet that book by the way empire of pain i haven't read that patrick radden keith brilliant book about how they started making certain you know a kind of medical company three brothers and then the dynasty how they created various drugs each of them in different ways problematic like with side effects and then and then the mother of all terrible drugs which was the oxys and whatever and um and a lot of them live in start now apparently you know stard in switzerland like it's a playground of the of the wealthy of the wealthy that are hiding from yeah yeah wow yeah that'd be a good documentary yeah if you could get in there they probably don't want to speak and then it must be tougher the museums are all having to give the money back and take down you know because they made all these donations right but it's it's i think you're right i think the sense of betrayal and the way in which uh the way in which it was cynically rolled out and the way in which doctors were induced to overprescribe and legislators were persuaded yeah that's sales reps were all incentivized to make inappropriate so i mean everyone knows this now but yeah it was way worse than the pandemic right like in terms of like the loss of life unbelievably worse and to think that it was yeah to think that it didn't even hit that big of a crescendo.

39:18I've never taken it. Yeah. Have you? I've never taken it. I'm afraid. Fentanyl. Yeah. You got that good fentanyl. God, they got it. That fenty, they call it. Is it? That fenty. People just, yeah, just lay there. And then carfentanil. It's like each one. Do you know about carfentanil? That's the elephant tranquilizer. It's like, it's a hundred times stronger. A hundred times? What? Than fentanyl. And fentanyl, if you touch it, you can overdose. Yeah. You don't even have to take it. And so police officers are bagging it up and then keeling over saying, this is the best day of my life. It's a sad, that's awful.

39:58And then, or inhaling it, right? When they used to break into meth labs and then there was like, the officers were getting, you were keeling over because they weren't wearing gas masks. You remember all of that? Some of them weren't doing it on purpose. I bet after that first day, they're like, yeah, I'm leaving this at home. I'll be back in a month. You leave this one for me. I'll bag it up. you get on with the next hit. Yeah, no, it's awful. And then car fentanyl a hundred times. It might be 10 times. Even if it's one time. Do you have a guy who can Google? Have you got a Google guy like Joe does?

40:26Yeah, he is. He can do it right over there. Can you Google that? He's an import. Who's Joe's Google guy? Jamie. Get Jamie. Jamie, can you check that? Yeah, can you bring that up, dude? Black people in wishing wells. Is that what you were looking for? What's that? He's always got the credit. Car fentanyl is like, I think it's 100 times stronger. It's like, what are we doing? How could we? Yeah, I think at that point people were like, no. And so after that happened and then COVID happened, that's one of the huge reasons nobody trusted any of the pharmaceutical industry. Because everybody just seen, I have four friends that died from fentanyl, right?

41:05Seriously. Swear to God. Absolutely deceased. People you grew up with. Off the face of the earth. some from adulthood but some from childhood right gone that's just me and i don't even run in those circles yeah so i can't even so once covid happened and then it became like oh we're gonna trust a pharmaceutical fuck no that's where a lot of america was i think a lot of people don't talk about that but to me that was a huge link um that's wild car fentanyl yeah yeah i don't know you shouldn't be in a car first of all if you're in a car it's nothing to do with being in a car right it's called car fentanyl well then that's a strange name it is a strange thing okay fair yeah yeah but yeah yeah it's so strong it's for cars no it isn't that it's god damn i saw i just saw a couple of tow trucks doing yeah that's not what it is yeah it's for elephants they should You call it something else.

42:04It's confusing. It's wild, though. Dude, but yeah, those pills are insane. Can I ask, because this is intrusive, so you must feel, but you're in the fellowship. Are you allowed to talk about that? Yeah. I mean, I was on cocaine was my deal. Were you? Yeah. I liked a little bit of cocaine, and yeah, I liked cocaine. You know? Like, if you would have some cocaine, then I would have some, hopefully. If I had some now, what would you say? I would say, we'll take a break, boys. No, because you're in recovery. I'm in recovery, no. I would say, I would look at it. I'd make sure it's cocaine. Right. And then I'd probably hand it back to you.

42:41Yeah. And then a few minutes later, though, here's what I would do a few minutes later. I'd say, let me look at it again. Really? Yeah. How long are you clean? What's the term? How many days clean are you? Two years. Congrats. Yeah, thanks, man. I had a couple years and then went out. And it is what it is, you know. But I never had a drinking problem. I'm going to set a cocaine problem. Did you ever struggle with anything? I mean, if you go by what the guidebooks tell you, I probably drink too much. I drink more than you're supposed to. They say 20, is it 21? 20 beers a week? 21 units or 28. It doesn't seem like very many.

43:17You know what I mean? I mean, that's the first thing that a guy who has a problem says. No, but come on. 21 beers a week? Yeah, that isn't. 21 beers a week. That would be a good week for me. okay then that's a good that would be maybe if england was playing in the no but as in like that would be low like in other words i'll be like oh wow i had a great i don't think i don't want to characterize it like i don't have okay i'm sounding defensive check in with myself no i i like to have a drink you know and i feel like um i find it relaxes me sir we're gonna need to see your license and registration that's what i'm asking you for sir okay i understand you don't drive Never drive while you're drinking.

44:00No, I think, and it's more of the culture. In the UK, it's way more of the culture. Ireland is the drunkest thing I'd ever seen in my life. I couldn't believe. Did you do some shows over there? Did you have any guests? Were you doing podcast shows? Nope, no guests. It was too much quickly moving. They like a drink. We like it. Scotland, they like a drink. England, and there's, it's, what do we say about it? My wife says I drink too much. Good. I disagree. But they have to say that. Yeah. They're taught to say that as soon as they're born. Do you think so? Your husband's going to drink too much.

44:32You tell him. I think she eats too many crisps. Well, I think it's very fair. Which you call chips. Yeah, very fair. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I would never dream of saying that to her. No. She knows I think it. Every now and then. You can't say that. Why is she allowed to say you drink too much, but I can't say, I think you eat too many crisps. I'm going to everyone, all the women are going to be like, I used to like him and now I don't like him. No, the women love you. Any woman I've mentioned you to, they absolutely love you. Oh, I appreciate that. But then they'll feel like he's coercive.

44:58He's trying to stop Nancy from eating those chips. What's his problem with Nancy eating chips? I think it's, as you get older, do you find that you speak like women's language a little better? Like I feel like I understand women. You're more empathetic with women? You just, there's certain things you know that you just, you don't ever say. You just should never say. 100%. Do you definitely want to eat that? Just never say that. You should not even look at a piece of their food. No. Or look surprised or be like, seconds. Really? Never do that. Also, if they say, do I look good in this or in this?

45:38You say you look amazing in both. Right? You know all this. Oh, yeah. Well, I think as you get older, you just become, if you look at a senior citizen, most of them could be a man or a woman. They often evolve into the same haircut. Your gender really... You seem that old? Are you imagining my wife and thinking that she looks like a senior citizen? No, no. Is that where your mind went? You seem healthy and your wife looks hard in my imagination. I do want to let you know that. Okay. But not, is she naked? Nothing crazy. No, no, no. She's very well. She's working at a library. Okay. I did an AI, I wanted to do an anniversary present in a couple of weeks.

46:16I can't remember how many years it is because it's been so magical. It didn't make any sense. But my point is I thought I'm going to do it. It'll be funny if I do an AI picture of me and Nancy having a wonderful time together celebrating our anniversary. You can put that into AI now, right? and it'll make an amazing picture. But sometimes it's so over the top, it looks kind of funny. So Louis and Nancy having a romantic meal to celebrate their anniversary. And it was Louis Theroux. So there was a guy who popped up in the picture and his beautiful wife, Nancy, the guy looked like me, but she looked like a 70-year-old librarian.

46:57And I kept having to fiddle the search terms to make her hot, like his much younger, very attractive wife, Nancy. But I couldn't meet, I couldn't seem to get the AI to make her attractive. Yeah. So I ended up just putting in Liv Tyler look-alike. Ooh, that's good, strong. And that did it. I bummed a cigarette off her one night. Did you? Yeah. She seems like a nice person. She was very nice. She gave me, I think she was, yeah, she gave me half of a menthol cigarette. And I was like, yeah, I kept it. I didn't even smoke. I took a couple of hits off of it, but then I put it out. Yeah, I really thought that was nice of her.

47:32It's funny how you can tell a lot. Maybe not that, but, you know, little encounters with people, chips passing in the night and that was enough you get a sense yeah you get a little bit of a funny that she smokes menthol though it shocked me but first time i smoked a menthol it's like this tastes like it's good for me oh yeah that's that kind of mint sort of refreshing tastes like you just had washed under your arms you're like god that's strong well i could see a lot of black guys would smoke them when i was growing up yeah but according to legend according to legend i'll tell you straight up terry was smoking the mitches dude when i met him a lot of the brothers would smoke them yeah because they wanted a stronger cigarette i think black people are just a they can they're strong there's just a tougher ilk but they haven't they banned i'm not touching that by the way menthol haven't they banned menthol or not i don't know if they banned it or not but us people are still doing it unfortunately and a lot of gin a lot of redheads will smoke them too so when you see that's sort of the you know if you look along the i mean yeah redheads are kind of exotic i would say you know if you look in the bible but kind of yeah yeah there's no redheads in the bible for real so have you really checked that 100 percent will you run that up how many gingers are in the bible and also uh so obviously they're man-made I think that's safe to say right engineered yeah that's interesting I feel like I was just going to say I feel like this is a good conversation but I also feel like I've talked a lot about kind of stereotypical gender stuff and I feel like people might think he's made all those programs and he's been to incredible places and like that's what he's learned I think they think we're just joking around and having fun I think that's what they think yeah 100 % that's what I think but I think there's also snippets of reality I think when you talk with people like guys who are creatives like yourself there's I think even you probably surprise yourself sometimes with what's reality maybe at times and what's your imagination and a little bit of both maybe I don't know my thing is I'd like to feel like I'm wise and I'd like to feel like I've gone through life and I figured something out.

49:57And, you know, I've been to extraordinary places and delved deep into human psychology and I've arrived, you know, like with some elder, so some elder wisdom. Yeah. But I haven't. But I think people respect that you're on the journey, no doubt. Yes, I'm still on the journey. I think a lot of people see that. If they pitch you, they pitch you on the side of the Himalayas with a backpack on. Thank you. And I think part of my gift, if I may put it like that, you've really seen some of my programs that's a thrill where would you have seen them? I watched the new documentary which I do want to talk about I want to talk about that I'm not in that one, I'm executive producer of that one if it's the one I'm thinking of Tell Them You Love Me on Netflix oh it was great I mean it's dark I did not see some of the turn that it took it's extraordinary can I set it up very briefly?

50:46I was going to ask you, no because I want people to go watch it because it really was good it really was good It's like a true crime kind of psychological thriller drama. You will love it. If you like true crime type of stuff, I think you will absolutely love this. In a twisty turny, I can't believe what I'm watching kind of a way. It's about a philosophy professor and a very disabled young black guy who's nonverbal and has always been assumed to have a cognitive, significant cognitive impairment. And she's a philosophy professor and she starts working with him and appears to unlock all kinds of special abilities.

51:30And his family, the young guy, Derek, his family is obviously thrilled. he starts going to college he's having philosophical conversations with her I don't know if he's writing poetry but he's he's sort of writing essays and they they they have this meeting of minds and according to her version they fall in love and they strike up a physical relationship but then questions start being raised about the nature of the technique that she's using to open up his abilities, his alleged abilities, and then the abilities come under question. And his family, Derek's family, start feeling, actually, he doesn't have the special abilities.

52:13And this isn't a thrilling story about love across the divide. It's actually abuse. And she gets prosecuted and sent to prison. So all the way along, you're trying to figure out what really happened. It blew my mind because there's so many little things. well and one of the things that you have to know i are that helps to know if you're a listener is that one of the ways she that the teacher and a stubblefield is her name that she would um help derrick because he basically at first you see him or you think of him and you think there's not a real him in there well there's a there's a well i don't want to say that no offense but my people my listen no i don't know i'm trying my best but when you look at him there's him in there but you don't know how much of him there is and it's hard for us to see a lot of times the person that is inside sometimes of a person that has a severe physical disability yeah i i he's there but he's and he's just got a profound disability and that's you don't know the nature of what is capable of right and and she starts she starts teaching he she starts becoming She, the facilitated, the way that they start to communicate, it's called facilitated.

53:27Facilitated communication. In essence, what happens is she's called Anna, Anna. I can't get you saying Anna, but that's how she says it. And Derek's mom's called Daisy. And it becomes almost a custody battle between them. And the first inkling that something's wrong is that Anna starts saying, like, Daisy will put some meat and potatoes down. and Anna will go like, well, Derek really doesn't like meat. He's a vegetarian. And his mom's like, what? And he doesn't listen. And she'll put gospel music on there from a churchy family. And Anna goes like, Derek really doesn't like gospel. He prefers classical.

54:09And he drinks red wine. And he prefers Cabernet. And like all these sort of markers of what might be construed as sort of elite or slightly refined. Oh, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, so there's a sort of class thing. And so Day's like, well, Gaspel's not good enough for him anymore. Like she feels offended. Like the son that she's always known is being kind of taken away from her. And it's almost like a power play. Like I know him better. I'm not saying that as how Anna meets. But that's a season. I would come across to a mother, and especially, I think, also a black mother. Who's like, yo, he's not going to eat my cooking?

54:49Right. Because he's a vegetarian. Like, he only eats nut cutlets now. Yeah, yeah. He only eats, like, shortbreads or whatever. He eats corn. And I'm not trying to mischaracterize it. Not at all. We're joking around. He only has a booyah base or whatever. But she said he was a vegetarian. Yeah, and that's insane. First of all, to say that a black guy's a vegetarian is absolutely, nobody's going to believe that, dude. Name 70 black vegetarians, dude. Okay, maybe Arthur Ashe was one. But that's it. Nobody's buying that shit. So out of the gate, the mom is like, hmm. You know, so, but I think. So that's where it starts.

55:30There's a glitch. I see what you're saying. And it spins out. And then when she says, and then they have the moment where they announce to Daisy and to Derek's brother, John, that they're having a relationship. And they sit down and it's Anna and Derek sit down with John and Daisy and say like, I don't know, I think they might have been excited to break the news. Of course. But it's a sensitive thing saying like, not only are we, because they weren't saying, do we have, I'd like permission to ask for your son's hand in marriage. It wasn't like that was like, by the way, we're doing it. Like we're already.

56:06They said we've been shagging a bit. Yes. Basically. And we're in love. I don't think they used the term shagging, but it was along those lines. Yeah. And I think it felt to Daisy and John like they still had a protective. Because the kids, he's not a kid. He's a young man. The young man is vulnerable. Right. So they don't know. And also they don't want to think about him. Sexual probably. Yeah, having adventurous sexual relations with the woman who's basically got a caretaking role. Right. And it's a professional relationship. It's a complicated power dynamic. So the brother, John, he's so shocked he goes and throws up.

56:51He cuts him to the soul. He feels so confused and befuddled by the relationship. I mean a lot of it is just also the awkwardness of you know the bigger conversation is around well I was going to say disability oh okay is that people who are very disabled I say very but people who have who can't walk and in fact maybe can't actually feed themselves or who need round the clock assistance with day to day life and may have like real cognitive delays like where they seem to be incapable you know they'll watch cartoons and enjoy life but they're not going to be reading books and stuff a lot of people don't want to think about uh the sexual relations it's almost like they they're infantilized and it's seen as inappropriate oh that they have sexual desires right but they do they could of course they do because they're full-grown people right yeah they're gonna obvious and especially well one of the things you have to let people know too i think is the way that Anna or Anna would communicate, she, there's like this sort of typewriter type of contraption, it's almost like a first typewriter you would give a child to learn to do typing on.

58:1306 S3 Like a speak and spell. 06 S3 Yeah, like a speak and spell. And she would kind of guide his hand or hold his hand because his hand would often kind of vibrate a lot. So she would hold his hand as he would write out the different things he wanted to say so right there it's just such a like who is the right who is yeah is it mostly him is she guiding based on things she wants is she even unknowingly guiding based on things that she may want because there's desires inside of us so the allegate the contention by the the skeptics would be that because you had long conversations with him using that technique right a little like a ouija board would be the other analogy if you know if you wanted to say that it was dubious and non-scientific, but the allegation would be that she was in essence having long conversations with herself and producing her ideal love partner, like someone who likes all the same things.

59:10You know what I mean? Like a fan fiction, almost writing her own fan fiction or something. Creating. And I'll leave it to people because viewers could go on the journey and figure out what they think happened but um one version of events is that she was you're projecting a kind of idealized version and using derek almost as a as a prop like a geppetto and a pinocchio type she was puppeteering yeah yeah a real life human used as a prop but then it's so strange right and certainly possible for sure it feels so strange to want to go spend all that time with someone Oh, I should shout. I need to mention the director, Nick August Perner, who did a brilliant job.

59:56It's great. Yeah, he's terrific. And as much as I'm here talking about it, I was an executive producer on it, but it's his project. He did it. Bring him up, Nick August Perner? Nick August Perner. August. Let's get a picture of the man. There we go. There he is. Perner. Do Google. There he is. What a handsome man. Look at his eyes. Wow. I don't want to look like that. Is he Bangladeshi, you think? I think he, I don't know his, you know, I never asked. I don't think August Perna sounds like a Bangladeshi name, but I love that he's got beautiful swarthy skin and piercing blue eyes and a thick beard.

1:00:40I used to have a beard like that, and then I got alopecia. Did you really? Yeah, my beard fell out. Oh, my God. I know, and my hair's gone thin. I have patches in my hair. That's an exclusive. I've never spoken about that on a podcast. About having alopecia? Yeah. And is it a real thing you have to deal with all the time? Well, it's always there. it's there when I look in the mirror and if I touch my hair I used to feel kind of thick lustrous locks like gorgeous just enjoyable like a bit like your hair it's thin though it starts to get thin and then little holes appear can you see that and my beard it's coming back but it's white I feel like one of those guys who's seen a ghost and their hair goes white and falls out oh yeah that sounds very like a scooby-doo yeah does it stress you out or do you care that much you already have a family you have a wife already I care because I think my wife cares and the last thing I need is to be even less attractive to her yeah have another crisp Lindsay or whatever exactly yeah Nancy like he's coercive she doesn't sound like that he's coercive and he's almost bald he's got patches in his hair you need to leave him he's no good for you right you know And that's your daughter saying that.

1:01:59Exactly. He's no good for you. Your wife's friends, you've got that to look forward to. It's like the toxic friend. Yeah. You're too good for him. Oh, yeah. Every girlfriend I've ever had has had that friend for sure. And they were right. They were right. She is too good for me. You're all too good for us when it really comes down to it often. She's so much better looking than I am. Oh. But I was on TV when I met her. So it was adjusted. it was adjusted for celebrity it happens you know what one thing that i thought was interesting about um about tell them you love me is that right yeah was that so she kind of has the ability to guide his hand possibly right or probably does some ability to guide it she has the ability and whether she's doing it is the question right and only she kind of knows yeah like there's some studies in there that that a doctor or a scientist does it helps you get a little bit of inclination but even then you're not fully sure because some people say like, like we're the keys to each other's locks, right?

1:03:02Like when we, maybe when we join hands, something more magical can happen, you know? Um, but then also I start to think about like, um, like the ownership now of like social media and these bigger corporations that own a lot of the platforms that we communicate on because they can dictate if we're even allowed to say certain things. It's like you might write what you really want to say, but at some point they can say, well, we understand what you'd like to say, but you're only allowed to say these things. Are you okay if we format it for that? And you have to say yes. And if you hit no, it just asks you the question again.

1:03:45Seriously? I mean, I just... Has that happened? Is that real? It just feels like that's very much where we're headed. Like they give you a certain amount of emojis. You don't get all of them. True. If you want to feel belittled, you must, you have to pay$2 ,000 a month for that emoji. I just wonder if that's what, you know what I'm saying? What color are you in your emojis? Like when you, you know, the smiley face, did you opt for the white one? Because I'm sticking with yellow. And increasingly, I wonder if. It's very Asian. That's a bold choice. A lot of Asians would be upset about it too. Would they though?

1:04:18Because it's a bright puce yellow. It's no yellow that's found in the human condition. I would agree with you. What emoji? Because you know there's a certain point where the first time you use a reaction, it gives you a choice. So now you have a dilemma. Do I go white? Do I go off-white? Do I go beige? I think it depends on what neighborhood I'm driving through at the time sometimes. Really? Oh, yeah. Because I'll be like, you know, this is what's going on around here. and you're half nicaraguan so you must did you go white or off-white i'll go off i'll go middle eastern sometimes so you keep choosing different oh yeah i'll throw a sand brother out there dude yeah i'll do it all man because you got to keep people on the edge i mean i even choose the pregnant guy nowadays you know it's like what are we even fucking doing is there a pregnant guy There's a fucking pregnant guy.

1:05:14What are we doing? They're trying to legalize all that, you know. But do you worry about that, about like censorship and what will be allowed? I've said this before, but it's like it used to be like you wrote on the paper, right? And now you can still write on the paper. But what if the piece of paper? Yes, you can. But what if the paper? What if they own? What if I think I got shadow banned? I don't know what for. Well, here you go. I don't know what for. Either that or it's so boring that they were like, we've got to stop putting – we've got to – he's making the platform look bad. His tweets are so banal.

1:05:50Just dial them right down. He's making everyone – you know, when I did Joe Rogan's podcast, I did it twice. And when he moved to Spotify, do you remember that big deal? And they gave him like 10 ,000 million whatever dollars. Yeah. And some of them they took off. Like they took some episodes. They took one of yours off? So they took the most contentious, like these are two. We can't put this on Spotify. This is too inflammatory. And one of mine was taken off. But I think it was taken off because I was so boring. I just can't because I said nothing. But I loved that I might be too spicy. Yeah. And I was like, they've taken me down.

1:06:30You know, like I've been made. They made me. They canceled me. Yeah. But it was, I think, because the first time I did Rogan, I didn't know how big he was. And you know how he kind of plays a reactive game? Like, in other words, he doesn't go on and say like, I've watched all your programs. I'm going to do an English accent. I don't know why. Here's Joe Rogan. I've watched all your programs and I've done a lot of research. And he's more like, hey, welcome. How's it going? And I was like, I'm very reactive as well. So it was kind of like, how are you doing? I'm like, good. How are you doing? Good.

1:07:05and then it was like two hours went by and it kind of got into a groove a bit yeah i mean it's probably fine i haven't i listened to the one i listened to i thought was fine that was good the second one i went back and i was like oh i get it maybe that was it yeah the second one was fine so i'm quite glad that they but your point was about so yeah i think they shadow banned me on twitter I can't prove it Instagram I'm okay I can put a picture of my I could just I could just do a selfie and put it on Instagram and it goes viral I don't know why but you know if I say I've got alopecia and I'm feeling sad you know like cynical what do they call that I'll put three black dude emojis in there if you say that just to spice things up you think that would make a difference oh yeah dude you bring a brother in it adds some heat to the situation I when I because I've listened to your content and you go close to the line.

1:07:58I'm like I better check out How the like what's the closest Theo's got to being canceled some of it, but you've never been canceled I've never been can't you know, like I don't know like I think a lot of times I'm kind of like just having a good time You get a free pass I think because you're a comedian and people are like he's just having he's goofing around and you're like people Know I feel like a lot of times like you're saying even just running in a live Tyler for 30 seconds and getting a menthol offer you sometimes can know where people but didn't you used to work out with David Duke they're harder at yeah and yeah we just all we did was fitness dude did you like what's it called did you spot him is that the term does that mean something I don't know if it means anything beyond the fact that you're right there assisting him in that moment would he be like hey Thea would you spot me what could he bench he was strong he was strong I mean he Did you try and be Were you trying to be A positive influence on him Or would that Would that have been inappropriate No I was using steroids I think at the time I was just trying to Freaking be jacked Out there dude I was trying to flirt With this chick dude His girl was So She was just a gorgeous She didn't do anything At the restaurant Like she worked there But I don't even know If she knew what her job was She was just so pretty People would just Do everything for her You know Like one of those maidens Or whatever you know Did you But did you You would have been what 1920 yeah did you and you knew he was like politically i well i'd seen they used to have signs in in louisiana it was david duke versus edwin edwards and he was a famed history a famed um political figure in louisiana who had stolen tons of money like most of them and his the the campaign slogan was don't vote for the racist vote for the crook those were the posters so you I'm surprised he authorized that.

1:09:52But I think people would rather be stolen from, at the time, people would rather be stolen from than have a little bit of racism going on. But Duke got a majority of the white vote. He might have done okay. Yeah. I don't remember. That's a good question. What was the runoff vote between David Duke and Edwin Edwards? Well, first of all, Duke, he got the whatever, was it the Republican nomination? Like, he ran for Senate. Did he really? Yeah, and then got the majority of the white vote in the race in the final. When I knew him, he was just doing chest and tris, you know? Like, that's what he was doing.

1:10:23Was he? Yeah. I don't even know. Yeah. How do you? Yeah, I'm trying to work out. I'm trying to get more hench. As you get older, you lose muscle mass. I know. That's scary about being alive. I want to be attractive for my wife. Oh, Nancy. Oh, Nancy. What does it say? I can't even read that. But basically, oh, is he the Democrat? No. In 75, he lost to Kenneth Osterberger. in 79. He was the Republican Bennett Johnson. Is that it? He was the incumbent. He got 40. Duke got 43 % to 53. Yeah, not bad. United States Senate election. I mean, that's wild. I don't know if at that time was he still that guy though?

1:11:08He may have been. He was. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of old, there's a lot of racism in the South, you know? And there's a lot of racism that goes both ways in the South too. there's a lot of black folks that do not like white people for real tons dude tons anyway it always gets looked at as the other way only but there's a lot of but they're they're making they're making up for lost time i agree that there's some of that in there for sure they're like i agree we gotta get simone back but the documentary is called no sometimes one of the tough things you have it now is there's so much crime in a lot of the black communities and it's very unfortunate i've made documentaries about gangster rap yeah i made a couple and one was in well i wish they were just rapping unfortunately a lot of these men are shooting each other for no reason yeah it's rapping seems like the only man two of my good friends have died my black friends have died from the only part of show business where like died from being killed obviously but sorry died from just miscellaneous other men shooting them for no reason it seems like it's the only branch of show business where actually killing someone is not necessarily a career ender.

1:12:20Rap music? That's a good call. Right, because you look at Gucci Mane. He killed someone. They said, yeah, well, it was self-defense. And no one really minded. Well, what's his name? Just killed someone at a Walmart not long ago. Who was that? Baldwin? Again? That would be like, okay. That's hilarious, dude. Thank you for that. okay that was awesome dude alec baldwin every week he's fucking shooting somebody and he wasn't even shooting a movie and i think that's his defense he's like i thought we were shooting a movie you know like come on that's crazy that's too much i love how he's on trial for this they hand him a gun yeah he fucking shoots it yeah and the person who gave it to him It's just the whole thing is just bad news.

1:13:16But yeah, somebody just killed somebody at a Walmart and they're getting off. Oh, DaBaby did. Yeah, DaBaby. Yeah. I heard he was in Da Adult section. That's the crazy part. Okay, that's enough of that. There we go. I was going to say, though. It's a great documentary that you made. Yeah, and the truth is, one of the things that his mom, Daisy, says at the end, he's like, but now he still hasn't recovered. He masturbates. And she basically blames Anna for the fact that she's caught Derek jacking off. And you're thinking like, he's a 35-year-old man living at home. What kind of world is she living in that she thinks that's pathological?

1:14:02Do you know what I mean? Right. Like, what else would he be doing at home? By himself all day. By himself all day with no girlfriend. Yeah. I just put two extra Ottomans in the middle of the room and let him figure it out, you know, to be honest with you. Yeah. That's what a lot of kids need, you know, if he's at that stage in his well-being. Or send in, like, I don't know if this is, like, considered kosher or not, but aren't there nurses who can do that? And by the way, a nurse can be a man or a woman, but aren't there nurses that can go in and isn't that part of therapy? Like, that you would be allowed, like, someone would...

1:14:41Do a milking of them. Yeah. Yeah, I don't see how that's not a service. Right? You can get, oh, dude, you can get somebody to deliver you like a damn power tools at midnight. But I can't get somebody to come over and relieve my cousin Ricky or something at two in the afternoon. I totally agree with you, though. They do that in Holland. You know how Holland's ahead on all this stuff? They do that, I think, in Belgium, probably. Bring that up. If anybody's milking, I don't know what the term is really. If some people are exasperating the... I think it's called, there is a word for, there's a polite word.

1:15:22There's a kind of medical word that makes it sound okay. Something very British, yeah. If people are... Yeah, manual relief or assisted ejaculation. Assisted ejaculation, bring that up. Actually, no, that's going to fucking... and I'm 22 days off of pornography right now. So are you? Oh, thank you. Thank God. How does that, I've been in a long time. How does that feel? And you're in a hotel too. Where are you in a B and B? I'm in a hotel. Oh, I'll, I'll, yeah. I'll, it doesn't matter what kind of place I'm in. I'll bust. Yeah. But I haven't been. Why not? 22 days off of masturbation, something like that.

1:16:03And off of pornography. I just have gotten into like this, this other program. I have like a kind of a, I got to check in and make sure just like, I just don't want to do it anymore. I wasn't having a problem with it, but it just had been a long part of my life where it's like, oh, this is habitual and I don't like it. How does it make you feel not doing it? It makes me feel more empowered and it makes me feel proud. Like a little bit, there's a part of me that makes me feel proud of myself. Is that crazy to say that? You could get a bumper sticker or something. I wonder the best way of honoring that.

1:16:36like a little like i would say like a little bump me too hard yeah proudly what is it proudly 50 days non-jacking off what would be uh yeah is there a support group for that there are there is yeah because a lot of it's just about like just making sure you're not looking at pornography i just want that stuff influencing my thoughts and feelings because then you start to like whenever it intrudes into daily life 100 well when you're engaged in sex you think of it in like frames of shot you're not even involved in like a real connection with someone you know and after years of that and stuff it's just for me it was really unhealthy so what are your vices now then vaping probably drawing pictures of tits a lot of times like if i'm sitting around and i'm with a napkin or something i notice i'll just look down and suddenly there's like six or seven sets of breasts or whatever tits or whatever some people call them tits i call them that um what else having some chocolates probably not drink you don't drink at all what about are you california sober you know that term yeah you can still smoke pot yeah and take mushrooms too no i've i've done like the microdosing or whatever and i've done ayahuasca you know have you and that's really fascinating that's fascinating dude you want to see something you never thought could happen on earth go try that it's like getting abducted by aliens it's almost as crazy as that.

1:17:58I'm scared. You've never been abducted by aliens. I don't know. Which is, I think, what any good man should answer, Louis. Yeah, right. It's possible. I'm a little scared of the ayahuasca because the people I've spoken to, they're like, yeah, it is really heavy. And they'll say, and the person next to me, they're like, it was a pretty good trip, but the person next to me was screaming and thought they were dying. So that kind of harshed my mellow a little bit. And I'm thinking I might be that guy. Yeah, that person could have also just been Scottish as well, you know, because I know they can get very verbose at times.

1:18:35Do you think so? Yeah, the Scots. Well, the whole thing is fascinating to me about the British. No, I think you would love it, man. Did we get anything on carfentanil? 10 ,000 times more powerful than morphine, 100 times more potent than fentanyl. I told you. The presence of carfentanil in illicit U.S. drug markets is cause for concern as. and that's the nice thing if you're going to do cocaine come to england what's it look at the chemical formula is c24 h20 n203 i mean look up a little bit more carfine i'll go to go to wikipedia right there who would you would just have to walk past it effects and side effects in humans are similar to those of other opioids that include euphoria relaxation pain relief pupil constriction sedation slowed heart rate low blood pressure lower body temperature you know a lot of people choke to death when they take these drugs because they then they're on it they think they're okay they eat the muscles in their throat don't work right and then they choke and they choke to death so you just imagine you're having a piece of chicken and you love it and you can't swallow it you tried to swallow you did the normal and your fucking neck breaks down.

1:19:54That's hideous. You wouldn't think you'd be that hungry. You know what I mean? It's like I'm higher than I've ever been, but what I really want is a chicken sandwich. Seems a strange, you know what I mean? Yeah, it really does. Like I'm still not happy. Yeah. I don't know. No, I think, yeah, that's a very, but every now and then you'll be shocked sometimes when you'll try to do some food when you're on you'll be surprised you're like oh i didn't expect that's the worst i remember i'd be all coked up or something and make a nice meal and then i want to eat it just fucking do more drugs but it's exciting being on netflix with the with the doc and um for us like it took us six years to make this i mean that was just to and i into i joined nick like nick had already been the The director had already been making it for a couple of years.

1:20:46Wow. So like it's an eight, nine year journey. And to finally land it, not just in the UK because it came out here first, but on a big streamer like Netflix feels big for us, feels like a thrill. And you've got your specials on Netflix. They're the big game in town now. Yeah, they're good. It's definitely. Did you have a good experience with them? Yeah, I think so. They actually made us, they told the fans like that were coming to shoot at the comedy special, the last one, that they had to have COVID vaccinations like literally three days before last time. Really? Or maybe even, no joke, two days before.

1:21:23And I thought that that was kind of fucking weird. Yeah. So it wasn't enough that you get tested. You actually had to get vaxxed. Right. For real. And so that made a lot of people be like, fuck them, you know? Yeah. I mean, people love Netflix, because we're addicted to it. But at the same time, I think people, there's, well, here's one of the things I noticed personally. Like, so I went to the last Blockbuster. Did you ever have Blockbuster videos here? Of course. Beautiful places, right? Yeah, I used to use it a lot. That was Netflix before Netflix. A hundred percent. And it's still functioning.

1:21:56You can go in there. It looks just like the ones you used to have. There's a kind of disgruntled person behind the desk. One thing I noticed about that Blockbuster is the autonomy you have when you're, I don't know if autonomy is a word, but the amount of just you, when you're walking around looking, there's so many options of things to look at and see you're like oh i forgot about this i'd love to see this look at this what about this whereas once you get on to one of the streamers it's really only what they want you to see like you have to unless you know exactly what you're looking for right but before but it's so hard for our brain to keep all that catalog so for them to have all that catalog but you don't really get to peruse it really it was a total different experience like and the joy you felt kind of finding something a little bit physically like oh let's watch this and things you never even thought existed anymore you know so then you kind of get channeled into only what is happening now in a way so i think it's also going to be tougher for movies to become classics or like build up that indie fervor sometimes you're definitely a victim of the algorithm and that's a soft kind of influence it's not censorship obviously but what it is is a kind of curating of your experience obviously they want you to watch as much as possible so they don't want to feed you things you don't like yeah but it keeps you in your lane a little bit is this is the risk yeah but maybe they'll have like when they get further along with um things like vr you will be able to kind of go inside the tv right and look around on the shelves that would be don't you think you would hope that that's what they're headed towards because yeah just that experience was so it just brought me back to oh i have some say in what i choose whereas this felt like i don't have as much but i'm i i was though i was one of those guys who would rent something and then weeks would go by and i would still not have watched it i think i had blade runner for like three weeks and then i did the that'll get that gets expensive oh yeah it would stack up and you'd be embarrassed taking it back yeah and you'd say give me a come on give me a break and sometimes they would bring it down a little bit sometimes they give you some snow caps or something like i need a fucking financial break here but you remember like when they you're probably too young but when videos first came along and it was a new technology it was kind of like before blockbuster everyone everyone thought i could make money with this so you would pop into the dry cleaners and then have a little v a video section or your or the 7-Eleven or like the local candy shop, right?

1:24:31And they'd have a little like 15 video library. You know what I mean? I didn't even know that. Yeah, it was weird. That's awesome. And then there was a winnowing and they're like, you know, we should, this is ridiculous. We need to have some place that just does that. We had a place called Pat's Shrimp and Video and you could get you a pound of shrimp and get you a movie over there. In Covington. Yeah. It was nice, dude. Get you a little bit of shrimp, get you a little film or something. You know what you'll find over here is that I think the chocolate's a little bit better. 100%. And if you go in, I know disrespecting them, maybe they're one of your sponsors, but Hershey's chocolate I'm not a big fan of.

1:25:05Me neither, honestly, and I'll say that out loud. Yeah. Come on. Fuck those guys. Well, it's just shit chocolate. What are you fucking making for people? I think, I actually think, and you can check this, they could not legally sell that as chocolate in the EU. Wow. Because they'd be like, there's not enough chocolate in the chocolate. right i'm serious oh 100 you know because the cocoa content would be they'd be like this is vegelate we can call it vegelate right if you want to call it coke hershey's vegelate but we can't call it chocolate yeah uh because it tastes it's very sweet but it doesn't have the richness yeah like we can call it african-american butter if you want you know and like well it doesn't need to be racialized we just need it to be actual chocolate you know you would think though also in america that has had a lot of history with african-americans you think at least they would put the appropriate amount of african-american in the chocolate dude that's the kind of shit that pisses me off um hershey's lawsuit sparked british revolt for superior cadbury chocolate but i will say this when you walk into some of the chocolatiers that are in britain it feels like you are oh yeah it feels regal it feels royal it feels imperial and if you go to belgium forget about Really?

1:26:19Yes. Oh. I mean, it's ridiculous. Like, it's actually, it's like being in Tiffany's, like a jewelry store. It's so redolent of class and kind of gourmet values. And the things are exquisite. Like, they just make beautiful objects out of the chocolate. Presentations, yeah. The presentation is off the scale. Yeah, we have. Have you tried Revels? Do you know what? Try some Revels while you're over here. Is it good? It's a mixture of different. I just like, you don't know what you're going to get when you put your hand in. And then they used to have, like they have a raisin one, like a crunchy honeycomb one.

1:26:58There'd be an orange one, a coffee one. And they used to have a peanut one. Oh, yeah. And then they discontinued that because of the allergy issues. Yeah, but those people, we don't need them on earth, I think. People would say, like, the joke was like, you know, people with allergies would use it like it was Russian roulette. Oh, I love that. You know, I have one. I don't know if this is going to kill me or not. The thrill. I don't know if anyone actually would do that. But a little part, I'm not going to be the guy who's like, is health and safety gone mad? I mean, we don't want people to die from eating a chocolate.

1:27:32But a little part of me was like, so we can't have fucking peanut revels anymore just because. That's a huge part. I think at a certain point you have to go with the status quo. I was in a movie theater once. and I had my, I think I had pick and mix. You know what that is? Okay, you just select different sweets and candies. You know, a bit of them, a bit of them, but you make your own bag. Okay. I was like, this is going to be, and I sat down to eat the sweets and the woman in front of me says, sorry, just to say my son has a peanut allergy, so if you wouldn't eat any of your sweets, I'd appreciate it.

1:28:12What? So, of course, I'm like, oh, of course, yeah, not a problem. I don't want someone to die because of me in the theater. But I was also thinking like, what? I can't eat my sweets? Yeah, dude, that's incredible. Who do they think you are? John Wilkes Booth or something? It's not your fucking responsibility to keep this kid alive. It's her responsibility. What if I go and sit over there? Nope. No, that's not good enough. Okay. Dude, yeah, that kind of stuff. You know what I did? And we can cut this bit out. No, we'll keep it in. I went to far away in the theater and then I ate them. I ate them.

1:28:53Yeah. And did part of you eat them out of spite almost in a bit? I ate them. Of course. No, I ate them because I wanted to eat them. Yeah, but some of you, with each one, you were like, oh, that little motherfucker couldn't handle these. I keep them out. Yeah, you're just firing them over towards him. Oh, man. Let me think about what else. Oh, do you think, what's on your mind these days, Louis, like what's something when you think about... I've got a podcast on Spotify. I went the Rogan route. Are you on Spotify? Yes. Are you? But you're only on Spotify. No, I don't. I don't have a deal. But they can put you on there.

1:29:26Yeah. And they don't pay you. Nope. Wow. I know you're making it sound like a horrible situation. But we just put it on there just to be everywhere. Yeah, you're not a Spotify pod... I'm a Spotify podcast. Oh, nice. The Louis Theroux podcast. So I've been doing that. And then I've got new shows coming up. I've got stuff that's on. Oh, I mean, my big thing is I diversified. So I started making more stuff behind the scenes. So I've got a series. Do you remember the Challenger explosion? Yeah, a lot of people said those people are still alive recently. Where are they? Huh? Where would they be? Bring some of that up.

1:30:04People have been saying that. Can you say Challenger people still alive? We did a whole. Do you have it? Is this what yours is about? It's not about. According to us, they're dead. According to our research. Did I say Challenger? I meant Columbia. Okay, Columbia. Sorry. I fucked up. Columbia is the one that was in 2001. Oh, yeah, those people are dead. The Challenger people, I think, are alive, though. Challenger is the one that exploded on takeoff. Columbia exploded on reentry. No. Yeah, and not only that, they had, I wouldn't say they knew, but they had an inkling that something might go wrong, and they decided not to tell the astronauts.

1:30:47No. And so the question at the heart of it is, what could they have done differently? Could they have sent another rocket up and taken the people out in a spacewalk and bring them back home in the other rocket, like send up a Russian rocket? Right. Could they have fixed it, done a spacewalk and fixed the bit that they thought might be damaged? So there's a lot of questions around how it could have been handled. So actually, I wasn't an exec on it, but my company made that. We're very proud of that series. Wow. And then we've got one about Lockerbie. We do a lot of heavy stuff. Do you know what Lockerbie is?

1:31:29Lockerbie, that's not the Loch Ness Monster, is it? No, but it is in Scotland. It was a village and a plane, it was a Pan Am plane that was flying from London to New York, I believe, and had a lot of American and British people on it, including a whole bunch of students from Syracuse University, I believe. And it was bombed. And there's a lot of conspiracy theories around that or theories as to what happened. So we made a four-part documentary. That one's going to be on CNN. So anyway, I've been making a ton of different. And do you do any behind-the-scenes stuff? Do you have people you're mentoring, or do you have a production?

1:32:09No, right now we've just been doing this sort of thing. I would like to, sometimes I think about doing some different, I've had just some thoughts about stuff. Sometimes maybe about Alzheimer's, learning about that maybe. I made a documentary about that. You did? That's an interesting, yeah. It was called Extreme Love Dementia and about the ways, yeah, it's about how we can best look after people with dementia. A lot of them are very happy, like not to sound weird about it. No, I think it's fine if they think they're younger or a child or whatever, you know, I don't know. But it's just about making them okay and comfortable, you know.

1:32:45Yeah, you just got to let them be them. I mean, that sounds a bit glib, but, you know, if they say one of them was a doctor. no he was a dentist and he was in this memory support facility in Phoenix Arizona surrounded by nurses and other very old people and fairly old people and he'd been a military dentist and he was like I'm on this base I'm a dentist I'm doing something dental I know that I'm like really? you mustn't contradict them because that creates distress and then you change the subject so he thought he was still working as a dentist fixing people's teeth. And if he was distressed, you would say to him, Hey, Gary, would you mind taking a look at my teeth?

1:33:29And then he'd do a dental inspection, and then he'd forget what was bothering him. So look, in this bit we can see he's trying to get out. He's like, I want to leave. I want to go through this door, but it says push and the alarm will sound. And he's getting agitated. And then I'm like, hey, Gary. You're an Indian or something. You know you're always going to be an Indian. Would you take a quick look at my teeth? Yes, sir, I would. They're not very clean, though. Well, I know. You're a Brit, aren't you? Yeah. Well, you guys don't clean your teeth like me. I know. Why didn't you? Why down, please?

1:34:05You got good occlusion. No, he's fine. You could know you're a crossbite back there. Uh-oh. I wouldn't do anything about it because it's not going to hurt you now. Oh, he might be, yeah. It sounds like somebody that's checking in on animals, too. Like he could be breeding dogs or whatever. Some of the commentary he gave there. But the point being, he's happy and he's living in his own world. He's in a fictional reality of his own memories. Yeah. And it's kind of amazing. I wanted to do something called like children of the porn, right? It was like children that were conceived on pornography sets during the shootings.

1:34:41Right. I think that's not many though. Do you think? I think you've got to get at least seven or eight of them. You only need a decent batch. It's hard to prove as well because if you're a working porn performer, you're going to be doing at least three or four scenes a week, maybe more. Maybe not during a strike season. Maybe if you went and looked during a strike possibly. During a scare when someone tests positive and they shut down. So there were only a couple of shoots that year, that month. I don't know. Just something that I thought about. Have you got an OnlyFans? No, I don't. I don't have it and I'm glad I don't.

1:35:17what else did i think about oh morning sex maybe a documentary about that how did we get here you know like sex because you're bereaved and you're in mourning no morning sex no you're talking about like funeral folk like yeah like funeral sex or whatever i can't get out of my grief yeah like um or more but you mean sex in the morning in the morning angle i just think i don't care what it is it's just probably just uh i think fucking somebody right after they woke up is pretty sick i think you know sick as in good no oh because sick means good now oh yeah well i think it just no it went back now it's bad again yeah anyway i'm coasting out of that all of that stuff yeah yeah i'm pretty old well i think it just also you part of you loses interest in some of that yeah i'm on the other side of the hill yeah well your penis you've done all the tricks you can do with it i'm just trying to stay alive yeah you know what i mean i'm retreating you know what Like gradually everything is, it's about, we just need to focus on getting to the next day.

1:36:22Yeah. Do you feel accomplished? Yeah. You're not supposed to say yes, but I do. I do because. It's a really cool thing to say. I think it's important. I don't think I, you know, there's people have done way more obviously stuff than me, but because I've been so lucky with the career that I've had, and I think maybe because of when I came along, it was like there was various things happening in TV and documentaries, and it was kind of like there was an opening. There was no one who'd done kind of like, well, there just wasn't that guy. He's kind of a little bit cerebral, but he likes to joke around, and he's curious about this and he's a good listener and he makes and then the BBC gave me like they just like just keep making those programs and they didn't really even check up on me and suddenly like 15 years went by and I'd made 50 programs and I basically I'd covered everything I mean there's still stuff out there but there's so much I've got you know like I've done a prison I've done jails I've done a maximum security mental hospital for pedophiles I've done most the high crime areas like let's say most of but i've done philadelphia milwaukee johannesburg lagos uh i've covered so much i feel like i've had this huge privilege this gift and uh it's pretty cool i don't want that to sound weird i don't think it does no i don't know all right well it's just a lot of times especially i think in the u.s we don't feel that you never hear someone talk about okay i feel accomplished but you know it's always just like this never-ending thing that is but i'm trying to make myself okay with slowing down as well obviously by one metric no like i'm not you know i grew up in a household where we valued shakespeare me again welcome back and so for me i accomplished my dad's a writer Yeah.

1:38:30He's a travel writer. He lives in Hawaii and also Cape Cod in the summer. And he's written like 60 or 70 novels and travel books. Like he's off the charts accomplished. So, and, you know, and the people we looked up to when I was growing up, people like, you know, just great literary figures like James Joyce or F. Scott Fitzgerald. John Irving. John Irving. He wouldn't have been, he would have been too close in age to my dad. So my dad would have probably, I never read John Irving, but if it was, let's say, Hemingway or Faulkner, right? I'm mentioning a Southern writer. Do you know who Charles Portis is?

1:39:10He wrote True Grit. Oh, wow. And he was from, I believe, Little Rock, Arkansas. He's a Southerner and he's dead now. Brilliant writer. Everything he wrote is a kind of classic of a kind. And so he was just someone who my dad was like, you should read Charles Port. It's like true grits, well-known, but his other books are equally good, if not better. So I read three of his books. But my point is just, and I totally recommend them. One is called Norwood. Another one is called The Dog of the South. And so by that metric, no, I'm not accomplished because I'm not a gifted writer. I'm just a TV presenter I'm not even really a documentary maker really like I'm not a director I'm the guy who works with a director and we say hey I'd love to go to a prison and then the team says we'll make that happen for you and they go and you know they figure out how we get in and then we get amazing access for two, three weeks right or in a cult or in the world of adult film or the far right some far right group which is the right amount of curious though but I'm curious and in a sense by being a little bit scattershot, a little bit not ready for prime time, a little bit unfocused, maybe a tiny bit, I don't know what, maybe ADHD, I'm not sure what it is.

1:40:32I don't want to medicalise it. But whatever that is, I get impatient, I get twitchy. And then so the people who are focused and on it can get me in there. And by dint of their work, I've created, I've been part of making these programmes. it's cool yeah i've been trying to i'm trying to row back from saying i'm accomplished i've already regret no i don't feel i feel like it's you very lightly say very lucky yeah you very lightly say well most people view you as extremely accomplished so i just think it's interesting to hear your thoughts on that um the pedophilia man what'd you learn about it because now sometimes people are saying that it's you know the next big business or whatever in what way like it's like the next Apple computer or whatever you know I'm saying it's just gross I mean I feel like it's like in America there's like there's there's that Nambla group there's people trying to like legalize it they're saying that the Romans used to do it yeah Romans did it Greeks I think famously was Greeks wasn't it um and they said that was normal in those days and then um there was Nambla I remember seeing a documentary when I was coming up I used to live in New York and there was a place called Kim's Video talking about Blockbuster.

1:41:41Kim's was like, it was way beyond Blockbuster. They had everything and they had every kind of film and they were organized by director. They'd be Kurosawa, Spielberg, Jean Renoir, like some obscure stuff that you wouldn't see anywhere else. You know, go into Blockbuster and say, where's your Kurosawa section? They'd be like, you know, oh, sorry. We'll give you some snowcats. but Kim's had everything and in the 90s when I was coming up I was working as a print journalist and you go down to Kim's and it was like an education in film and they had a documentary section that had incredible like one film they had that I want to mention you may even have seen it was called dream deceivers have you heard about it and it was about two kids who listened to a lot of is it black Sabbath no Judas Priest and they had a song called suicide solution and And the two kids decide, like, they think the lyrics are saying, suicide solution, just do it.

1:42:43And so they're like, yeah, we need to commit suicide. I know, it's very heavy. And they kill themselves. No. Yeah, and then one of them doesn't manage to do it. He just shoots off the lower half of his face. So he's interviewed in the documentary. I've got to see that. But he can't really speak properly. and then Judas Priest are prosecuted by the kids' parents, I think, saying like, it's your fault. It's because of the lyrics. And then Rob Halford from Judas Priest is on the witness stand explaining like, it's not, you know, we just made a song. He's from Birmingham, isn't he? So we just made a song and it wasn't supposed to tell anyone.

1:43:26I can't. You know what I'm talking about. That's fair, yeah, that's very fair. And I remember seeing that and thinking, this is so fucked up. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm really curious about. And it's dark and it's upsetting. And there's the kid. He's died since then. Oh, man. I've got to learn about that. We just had a group on called the Suicide Boys. And they had a pact when they were young that if they didn't make it, that they were going to commit suicide. Make it as what? As white rappers. so I mean it was a fucking let's just say the deck was stacked against him but there's some there's some pretty good I feel like down south there's is it Bubba Sparks Bubba Sparks he was on one time Bubba Sparks is a really neat guy is he still going he had some pill addiction he still does do some work though he still does work some really but there's a lot of there's a lot of white rappers out of the UK now oh yeah I would say white and black very talented in fact the UK drill scene Central C?

1:44:29Central C, did you have him on? Central C, no. I thought about reaching out to him, but... Do it. We had Ed Sheeran and KSI and you, and I felt like it was a good... That's a great mix. I feel very flattered to be in that company. I mean, I feel very flattered to be in the company, so... But on the chemistry, because you were talking about pedophiles being the next big thing in tech, which I didn't fully understand, but you're good. I don't know if I said that exactly. You said it was the next Apple product. Oh, yeah. I was just saying, like, it's like, it's become this thing in America. It's like, it just seems like they try to make it seem more norm.

1:45:03Well, so the thing was, I was going to say, there's this documentary in Kim's in the documentary section, and it was about Nambla. It's called Chicken Hawk. All I was going to say on that was, so back in the day, Nambla was big. Alan Ginsberg, the poet, I'm not trying to, like, throw shade on him or whatever. Brilliant poet, much beloved. But he was a member of Nambla, I believe. you can check that but uh and howard stern in the 90s always used to have you know how he would have people on who uh he had a clan guy who would come on and he'd make fun of him and he had a nambler guy he would have on so my point is just like nambler's been around a chicken horn men who love boys it's a very weird documentary where they spend time with a couple of guys or one guy from nambler and they're just talking to him figuring out what makes him tick what's going on with him.

1:45:53Did you confirm the Allen Ginsberg? Yeah, let's look back and just bring up Allen Ginsberg. I just want to make sure that we're referencing him. Yeah, we don't want to make someone part of Nambler if they're not. Well, he was their celebrity like they had one celebrity. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Associated with Nambler. Was a supporter and a member. Good enough. There we go. He's a North American man-boy love association. So, was Michael Jackson in Nambler? I mean, I'm sure he definitely performed at some of their events. You would think, yeah.

1:46:31Have you ever said, like I went on Twitter and said, come on, we all know Michael Jackson was a pedophile. Like we've seen the program and even before that, like there was no shortage of evidence. Like his music's still great, obviously. Yeah. But let's not be silly, but let's not be in denial about what's happening. And you get so much comeback. Really? On Twitter, like on X, from that. Does that surprise you? No, I'll say I'm going to tweet that as soon as we get out of here. Yeah. Just to remind people. Yeah, I was really surprised. There's people who are still like, you know, that's so shocking that you would say that about Michael.

1:47:12I'm like, what? Which Michael Jackson are you talking about? What are you talking about? So I don't think they're trying to normalize it. But my perception, when I went to Koalinga, it's a maximum security mental hospital for sexually violent predators is the term. And they go around in beige suits. And it's a hospital, so they can't punish the men there, right? It's a legal requirement. It's a hospital. So they're not incarcerated on the grounds of serving a sentence. they've done at least two significant terms in prison for sexual offenses and then two psychiatrists have said yeah we're not ready for you to come out and they're like hang on we i've done my time what are you talking about i've done i've i've done 15 years and they're like yeah but you're mentally ill and they're like i'm not mentally ill they're like i i'm just a pedophile that's their oh i see right they're like i don't have delusions and which is obviously in a weird way is a kind of medical arguably a psychiatric gray area right because they're saying i know i'm a pedophile yeah it's not like i'm in the yeah like oh i'm not a pedophile yeah or some of them are like and i don't mean to be like but they're like i mean i uh because some of them are rapists and they're like but i'm a rapist why are you putting me in like i but i did my time for that and also why are you putting me in with these pedophiles right and and and they're you know saying i committed a crime but that doesn't mean i can't and like why are you letting out murderers but you won't let me out but the argument goes well because you're mentally ill according to our metrics due to being a pedophile so anyway so they're there and they're like well i'm not gonna they're like and if when if you spend a long long enough here uh and do enough treatment will let you out.

1:49:05And they're like, no, you won't. No, you won't. So none of them, very few of them, proportionally, are doing the treatment. But they can't be punished, so they play in jazz combos, they're playing tennis, doing art therapy, they can have porn, they can vote. They're like, I'm gonna vote for Obama. You know what I mean? They're living lives It's too strong to say country club style, but like a relatively pleasant mental facility. And everyone in there is a pedophile? Or a rapist. They're a predator, sexual predator. Sexually violent predator. The term violent implies like, oh, they beat you up.

1:49:55But some of it's grooming. It's a kind of legal definition of violent. And then they play softball. They play a lot of softball. Oh, wow. Yeah. Now, if they live stream that, people would pay to watch that. And they sell their hair. Do you think so? I don't know. And a heartbeat. Why? Watching pedophiles play softball. It looks a lot like anyone else. Yeah, but still, every now and then it's going to get a little weird and people are like, ah, look at that. You know? People would pay. You'd be surprised, I think, of what people would pay for. I wouldn't pay for it, I don't think. I would look at the highlights or whatever if it was on sports.

1:50:27It would be like on ESPN 5. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like one of the real, you know what I mean? And lawnmower races. With the dog shows on there? Dog shows and lawnmower races. I'm saying lawnmower races like it's fringe, but that's probably mainstream. You know what I mean? And yeah, there they are. That's the worst. Do you think this is a born sickness or a learned thing, do you think? I would say, according to what I was told, a bit of both, I think. But I think there's a component where... it's what they term a paraphilia. Like it's just, it's like you can't actually cure it, you know, the term cure any more than any other.

1:51:10I was told like it's like a sexual orientation, which isn't in any way to attempt to normalize it because it's just the idea is like, actually, this is just something they are. Not even how, like something they are. So, and they need, and even like and what they they have to and what they do is they convince themselves that there's no victims like that the kids are okay with it a bit like Michael Jackson right my theory with Michael Jackson is that the whole time he was trying to tell us what he was like every interview he would say like I sleep in a bed with kids it's love what's wrong with that you know like in other words like he was always trying to come out you know what i mean yeah oh he's talking in his diane sawyer interview or his michael it went with martin his martin bashear interview there might have been was there an oprah one he just wouldn't shut up about it yeah i think it had to get it yeah he had to find some way for it to let people know he probably was a nice guy who also had this affliction you know well that's the craziest thing about a lot of things it seems like that you investigate a lot of the stuff you investigate or these people it's not like they're some of them could be practicing i think the kids took i think it took the kids a while to realize they'd been abused as well yeah they thought they were just having fun with michael jackson i don't mean to sound like no well i think you know what i mean yeah well i think it all just goes to what you believe is okay you don't know you know what i'm saying like yes in the over in the bigger scope of things yes it seems it's really messed up and we were able to see that but at the time if you're there and you're in it and nobody's told you that it's bad or you haven't told anybody that it's happened i can i tell you i've never said this before but i heard a theory that um you know michael jackson was on an episode of the simpsons i didn't know they pulled it it was an uncredited guest cameo as a mentally ill man who thinks he's michael jackson does that ring a bell it's a really great episode you can't see it now they pulled it but the theory I heard was that he agreed to be on the Simpsons on the one condition that he could spend the night with Bart Simpson so they had to write that into the script no way so in the episode he's he spends the night with Bart and they stay up all night writing a song together called Happy Birthday called Happy Birthday Lisa I think oh this looks like it right here yeah i don't know but i it's uh i feel like can i spend the night with bart in the episode yeah but because why would he do that though unless he's trying to in some way normalize um adults and kids spending the night together unless he's trying to eat that eat my shorts you know or whatever god it's crazy yeah that's what i wonder with like a lot of the epstein stuff and stuff it's like are we are is there this overall master arcing thing it's like leading us into this like depravity world or did people always used to behave that way i don't know i feel like uh it was always it used to be like you know in this country in the uk we used to have page three girls and you could be 16 and be a page three girl and you know that's it's arguably porn like they're topless uh they don't do it anymore but you know 16 is very young and um but like to have that in your national newspaper there's a topless 16 year old they changed the law in around 2003 my point is just that i think in a weird way uh it was more normal in the past to fail to to fail to police in appropriate relation like there was more sense of like in you know when you look at all the Roman Polanski stuff yeah or stuff that was happening in um the 60s and 70s I think nowadays I almost feel like um the Epstein thing is a distraction I mean I might be being naive I feel like they're trying to make out obviously he was a terrible guy right who was grooming and molesting teenagers but um I almost feel like they're trying to make it like make us all feel like there's this vip and maybe there are but i feel like it's all most of that stuff's actually happening in play look at the stuff that's going on in the regular porn industry you know what i mean they don't really need to hide it yeah does that make sense yeah well it's part of it's like yeah it's like well i think it makes start to make people think that okay the rich and elite are like on the island i don't really but i mean the island the idea of the island's kind of appealing like wow what did they and like right island always adds mystique yeah that's a mystique he had a private island what are they doing out there they do and then people would fly out there i think they were probably out there just eating chicken wings and you know rich being rich and it was probably quite boring yeah you know what i mean unless there was a group of dudes because i've been around some real rich people when you start you know a lot of them do like they'll go on like these kind of sex kind of really romps and tours nothing with i've heard that and about some of the tech ceos that they get together they go to romania or just different places do some weird shit and shoot backpackers like in hostel oh yeah i haven't heard that but they hunt humans because everything else is too tame for them at that point oh i would believe it though i'd believe that that goes on somewhere the they don't value a lot some people at certain levels that don't value human life at all, I don't think.

1:56:58The scary part is, like, it's a bit like Squid Game. If you've got, like, a hundred desperate people, like, if they were addicted to carfentanil or something, and you said, like, one of you is going to... You're all going to be hunted. Of the hundred of you, maybe three are going to get shot and killed. But the rest of you will make a great, like, a really big paycheck. check you would probably not have any trouble finding guys to to agree don't you think 100 % i mean in a way it's kind of like what boxing is in a way because they're saying like you're you're gonna get brain damage probably or or a lot of you are but you'll get a great payday yeah and you can until you're about 50 you probably won't notice a lot of the side effects i'm not trying to be down on boxing i've got two of boxes but we all know that you know there's a brain you know brain side effects yeah no man just interesting to think about stuff you know it is and and and uh did you ever get to meet michael jackson or no i shook his hand he did yeah what did his hand feel like very soft he i made a film it was the only time i think yeah you made a documentary about something about yeah it was called uh Louis and Michael Louis, Michael and Martin it was around the time Martin Bashir was doing his interview and I was trying to get an interview it's the only time I've done one where it was in search of so I didn't get that close but I did interview Joe Joe was his dad the one who he said messed with his head, the one who, because Joe would call him all kinds of names that later on people allege that was part of why he got his surgery because he would call him pepper nose he said his nose no i'm not going to do an impression of joe that's a bridge too far but he was he just like he was kind of a bully yeah then martin bachier got fired he was the guy who did the interview with lady princess diana do you know all of that and then turned out he got it on false pretenses by forging a document and that was why princess diana princess diana thought the intelligence services were snooping on her based on that so she agreed to do an interview with martin basher there's majestic magnificent he so he was michael's um personal magician wow so that right there so you could say like what that's the best you could do was talk to his magician but you could also say like well who has a magician that's pretty cool to have a personal magician and um god he must have been just so broken-hearted or in so much self-pity he also and broken-hearted who michael yeah or something just wrong deranged with him he had to have a personal magician you need someone ali had a personal magician oh he did same guy i think well maybe maybe it wasn't his personal mid i mean i he lived with the jacksons it's i could never quite is this guy still alive he's dead sadly he was a good magician look at that do you see that you

2:00:11And then Joe, my thing with, I thought I said to Joe, what's going on with Michael? You know the angle I went in one was like he looks like he needs help. like he seems he seems he's a brilliant artist but he seems troubled he's taking surgery surgery too far and i i don't see a healthy relationship in his life and in fact the relationships he did have you know with lisa marie presley and what was the um um oh uh debbie rowe debbie rowe was the other one yeah who was his the he was she was like the receptionist for his dermatologist Arnie Klein? I think that's right. Anyway, I was like, what's going on?

2:00:54Wouldn't you like to see Michael? And this was the slightly troll-like thing I did, although maybe not. I said, you know, don't you want to see Michael happy, like settled in a consenting and happy relationship with a man or woman? And what did he say? I think I said boyfriend, a boyfriend or girlfriend. He said, boyfriend I was like yeah boyfriend or girlfriend boyfriend and then he went off he said you saying Michael's gay you saying Michael's gay now and then they kind of went off and freaked out that I might have suggested that he's homosexual that he was a gay man he was a homosexual man he could have been I think probably like if he'd had if he'd been able to channel his sexual energy into consenting relationships with men it would have been fine then it's all good.

2:01:47I mean, I think of some pedophiles, when you meet them, like the guys at Coalinga, they're not the most attractive men, right? What a surprise. And actually, when I've met pedophiles, I've interviewed them also doing prison sentences at San Quentin. And a lot of times you feel like, okay, these are guys who have socially maladapted, who for them like to have sex with, I don't mean to belittle it or in any way trivialize it, but that's just an opportunity for them because children are weak and easily influenced. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. No, it does. It's, yeah, it's like some people prey on women that are weak and easily influenced.

2:02:26Some people prey on whatever they can that's weak and easily influenced or whatever they're able to assert themselves onto. Yeah. It's like, you know. It's heartbreaking. Yeah. We had a decent amount of pedophiles in our area. Not enough to make a softball team or anything, but we certainly, they certainly had a group of them around. Was it known? In those days, we called them dirty old men, right? Mm-hmm. And it was called stranger danger, and it was dirty old men, and don't talk to strangers. Or they were called flashers. Oh, yeah. Do you know what that is? Oh, yeah. I saw a flash once at a wine store when I was a kid.

2:03:00My uncle dropped me off at a wine store, and a woman flashed me. There was a woman. A woman? Yeah. And what did you – how old were you? Probably 12. But I remember – and were you upset by it? i don't know it was kind of like by some i mean i've had a affinity for cabernet ever since i know that you know for sure dude what does that mean i don't know it's just i remember being in this wine store and if somebody brings up a damn cabernet right because you were in a wine store winner yeah i mean she just and i just didn't and my uncle was driving me after and i told him and he went back to the wine store to look for the lady dude what a fucking pervert Because he wanted a seat.

2:03:41For sure. He's a pervert, dude. His wife was on pills, too. What was she wearing? Just a kind of a coat or something and nothing under. Was she a customer in the store or she worked there? I didn't look and see if she had a receipt or anything on her. I know she was not. I don't think she did not seem like an employee. So I think she was just somebody traveling around showing her body to children, you know. Did you like it? I was pretty. Were you confused by it? Were you upset? I don't think I was upset. I think I was like, all right. All right then. Oh, well. Hello. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know if I, you know what I felt like now that I really, I felt like I didn't know if I was supposed to do something.

2:04:24Like, am I supposed to do something now? And then I felt like I didn't respond quick enough to maybe if I was supposed to do something. And then I felt bad about myself. A cousin of mine was, he was, this is his story to tell, but I'll tell it anyway. he was in Washington DC not that that matters oh there was a lot of pedophiles and the guy called him over to his car him and his friend I guess they would have been maybe 11 or 12 and the guy was in his car and he was exposing himself like here in his lap but you know things happen quick and it was so decontextualized my cousin thought that he was showing him his gerbil so he was like oh that's nice that's cute and then they went off and then afterwards they were like, hang on, that wasn't a gerbil.

2:05:15But you just wonder whether that was the reaction the guy was hoping for. You know, oh, that's nice. Or whether he would have preferred they were a little freaked out. Yeah, like what the fuck, they got to call my penis a gerbil? Yeah. What an asshole. In a way, like, that was the best reaction because I'm not, you know, I didn't faze him. Yeah. I had a guy come up to me once and he was, this was when I was 12 and I was outside at WH Smith in Putney and he's like, and I used to like smiling at older people. I thought, I just thought it was. Yeah, he's supposed to do it. Yeah. And like, you know, they're nice and you're nice and sometimes they'll give you a little bit of money.

2:05:51Like here's 10 people being a good boy. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. He's a butterscotch or something. Yeah, go get yourself some sweets and then you go, oh, I can't take that. And they're like, yes, you can. Yes, you can. And then my family's all dead. Yeah, I would. You go and take 10. Here's another 20p and go buy yourself some sweets. But this guy, I smiled at him and he said, I bet you've got a big one. I said, I still smile because I hadn't taken it in. I said, I bet you've got a big one with lots of hairs on. And I smiled and then I went off and then I was like, eh. And yeah, I was quite upset by it.

2:06:26We used to have a dude, he'd give you 10 bucks, right? And he'd be like 40 feet away. He would show you his butthole and all you had to do was look at it. Yeah. And you got the$10. Isn't that amazing? That's a lot of money too. I thought it was a crazy amount of money. We're like, come back tomorrow. How long would he be standing there for? It was just a quick like, okay. Or how did you know when he'd finished? He wasn't touching himself. He would kind of bend over and pull his buttocks apart. Yeah. And that's how he would see us and make sure that we were looking. Through your legs? Through his legs, yeah.

2:07:02And we would kind of. Through his legs. He would show us his butthole. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it, yeah. And you'd have to just do that. And then, yeah, you got the 10 bucks. I had a – We had a lot of gays that were drug-induced homosexuality in our area. And it was – they would happen behind, like, the rest areas along the interstate. And the men back there would get in the river back there and make out and be high on drugs. Were they doing it for the drugs or were they already gay? I think it was a mix. It was a big mix. Because it seemed like guys that maybe weren't. A lot of that stuff's fluid.

2:07:39Yes. Like guys in prison, right? And then you're like, well, you know, there's no gay men in prison, really. I mean, they're all gay. There's no straight men. Depends on how you look. Yeah. Right? It's like, yeah, you might be in, you know, Sherwood Forest. You know, where did Christopher Robin live? What was that place called? Sherwood Forest. Oh, you might. Robin Hood, Robin Hood, yeah. You might be in the Hundred Acre Wood. Oh, Hundred Acre Wood, okay. Yeah, but you might not be a, you know, I don't know. I had a good analogy. I can't figure it out. But I went to the doctor once because my bum was itchy, and a few weeks went by, and then it was still itchy, and I was like, this is weird.

2:08:17Like, I don't know. Maybe there's something wrong with it. You know, you Google it, and I couldn't find it. So I went to the doctor, and I said, I've got a very itchy bum. And I think he was French, but he said I'll take a look at it and then he looked at it and then that's already quite embarrassing oh the worst and then I had the strong impression that he thought there was nothing he couldn't see anything wrong with it so I had the strong impression he thought I was just doing it for thrills and then what am I supposed to do about it he said I can't see anything I said okay well thanks for taking a look and it was such an unsatisfactory encounter oh of course and you can't call later and be like hey, can you let me talk to that guy again?

2:09:01Apologize. Yeah, I just want to say, hey, look, man, there was nothing weird. Because then that's weird. Yeah. It's so hard to follow up. Have you ever had testicle problems where they have to look at your balls? No, I had erection problems where they would, like, shoot this stuff into your wiener to see if it worked good or not. Really? And it works immediately, but literally the guy's, like, with a needle just right into your wiener. And it is harrowing, dude. Do you know why you had that? just a lot of stage fright just fright from being a kid just constant nervousness you know and it would just like um yeah that was harrowing dude so they just needed to find out that it worked they want to know that it like the inner the ballast tanks or whatever work you know and so they would shoot it up and you're like oh it works so it's in my head it's not in my body you know and was it okay after that yeah it was hit or miss for a couple years but it got better past few years it's gotten better just you get older things wear off even like you're saying like your desire all that confusion all the fucking you don't know the paint comes off the car and you're like all right yeah we'll just keep driving it keep going some porn performers use that you know yeah shooting them up yeah they shoot it up like because that works every time and it's quick oh i wouldn't i would hate that though but they used to i don't think they do i think now the porn industry is so like it's all only fans and private people and the the big set where there's pressure on and people are standing around i did a documentary way back one of the first episodes of my series weird weekends and we followed a young guy called jj on his first big shoot and i'd read a lot about how people get anxiety and and then everyone's standing around and think like we can't shoot anything until you basically...

2:10:51JJ gets ready to rock. You get wood, that's the term. And we were like, we're going to be there filming. Okay, JJ. And I didn't mean really to put a hex on him, but because of the nature of documentary filmmaking, you were sort of slightly, I don't know if even hoping is a strong word, but you were aware that you're going to... If you get, you're going to get a better scene if he fails to get wood. And there he was and he couldn't get wood. Couldn't get it. yeah was he talking to it that's the worst when you start talking to your own penis he was kind of I don't think he was talking to it but I remember a lot of the people he was trying to get something going and it was just not happening god I've been there buddy what a nightmare and you know but nothing on the line like he had something on the line that's him more recently I saw him again he lives in he was living in Ukraine then I think yeah it was about five years ago maybe four years but back then he was he was telling me about his techniques and he'd done three scenes and this was his first he didn't want to mess up on his first big studio shoot it was his first big one yeah it was a sad situation that's a tough go there was one thing I wanted to ask you about before we leave oh they just had a social media they wanted to put a social media disclaimer I was looking at this I want to see what you thought about this Louis can you see that in the news articles there's a social media a Surgeon General's warning on social media.

2:12:19Can you open that up? Oh, I heard about this. Yeah, is that here or in America or both? Not sure. They're basically campaigning to put a surgeon's advisory or a kind of health warning. A Surgeon General demands a warning label on social media apps and they're trying to make it more sort of childproof so that actually 13-year-old, because you can get it like my eight-year-old got on tiktok when we weren't paying attention we were on holiday he started a tiktok account and then he was going viral we didn't even know what was going on right we were just in a restaurant in greece you know talking about this and that we thought he was just playing on his ipad or something and then the next morning like they came down they're like he's gone my older kids were like he's gone viral on his tiktok and there was a picture and he filmed himself going blah blah blah making a weird like he obviously liked seeing himself so he's opening closing his mouth yeah all right and he goes i like roblox was making a shake with his mouth and then for some reason it kind of lit up tiktok i don't know why yeah it's just i guess you don't see many eight-year-olds on there right no i don't think so yeah you're like who gave him this how did he do it we're giving him bad reviews oh yeah and i'm like he was he was getting like tens tens of thousands you know like more than a lot of stuff gets on TV yeah and people would say and then one guy was like don't harsh on the guy he'd just be vibing like kind of defending defending his his integrity and and the quality of his content that's crazy the kid just started he was only his like third post but I'm also thinking you know it's like having a portal in your pocket, like, or in your front room, you know, if you've ever, if you have like a million or a couple of million social media followers, and then you have a few drinks, it's kind of, I often think it's a bit like if you had a balcony outside your front room and you could wander out and any time there's two million people standing outside.

2:14:31So you could just, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to show them my wiener. You know, like you could do anything. Yeah, I'm going to show them, I'm going to tell them what's up, I'm going to tell them how I feel right now. Yeah, I got a great joke. This is funny. Like you couldn't, and that's a horrendous, I accidentally, like also there's famous people in your phone and you go like, okay, Siri, or you use the thing and it goes, beep, beep. And like, I'm going to send a text to Bill Clinton. You know what I mean? Like I don't have his number, but some famous person, right? And you're one thumb click away from.

2:15:01Sending something crazy. Sending something crazy. And what if it started to do it? What if it started just like, you know what? Fuck these people. Yeah. The algorithm, whatever. Yeah. I mean, we're already calling it an algorithm. We're already calling it artificial intelligence. Kids do inappropriate. I'm not going to call it anything, but kids take, they think it's funny to do inappropriate stuff. Yeah. That's part of being a kid. Like they have a bath together and they, maybe they even, if you're not, they have a phone and they think it's fun. Like they take a picture of, maybe one of them takes a picture of his younger brother naked or something.

2:15:32I'm speaking hypothetically. Of course. And maybe they zoom in on his wiener. Wiener. His willy. they think it's funny like because they can show it to you or like to their you know brother or something like look why but then one click like they have your social media account they put it put that on social media now you're a pedophile and you'll go to jail not even joking right that would be I'd be put in prison for that and who what court is going to believe oh yeah I didn't do that my son took a picture of his brother's wiener and then he posted it exactly like your four year old son did that exactly it's just that that's at the risk and then one thing like that is career potentially career ending and what if the actual owners of these corporate if they wanted to they could just post something on your fucking account they can hack into your every you're clicking all those what are the terms and conditions you know you take the one in Samsung it was like you have the permission to listen to everything I say yeah do you remember in the smart TV and they were stockpiling everything you said Their only get out was, oh, we're not listening to it.

2:16:39We'll only listen to it if you get into trouble, like if the president thinks you're a spy, you know, or a terrorist. But other than that, don't worry, we're just collecting it. Yeah. Like, oh, fine then. Right? I think that's still going – that isn't even a conspiracy theory, I don't think. Oh, I don't know. Did Samsung – can you bring that up, man? Well, you know, one of my beliefs is that a lot of pornography sites are able to record you while you're watching pornography. Yes. So that's how a lot of these people get compromised, I think, for all types of things, is because they have video of everybody.

2:17:14Your TV's spying on you, but you could stop it. On newer Samsung sets, go to Settings, Support, scroll down to Terms and Policies. Here you can turn off Viewing Information Services, Internet-based advertising. You could stop it. Yeah, but tell me how many people are going to click through all the menus to figure out. I just read how to do it, and I'm still not going to do it. Exactly. You don't even read the bit that's like quick start. Here's the thing. You just like put the batteries in. And if you can't figure it out with, you know, on its own, then you get someone else to figure it out. You seem it doesn't work.

2:17:46Well, even with having a child, people will have a child, not even read anything about them and just take it home from the fucking hospital. Yeah. Yeah. Big time. There's no manual. But you should do some research. You should do some research. They're not spying on you, though. Well, maybe they are. that's when you know you're fully schizophrenic is when you think your children are oh yeah there's a uh shane moss is a great comedian who he's like uh he'd done a lot of psychedelics and he wanted to do a documentary while he was on psychedelics but as he was taking him he got like further and further down the whole of them and he started to think that the camera crew that he'd hired was spying and working against him so now he started leaving clues to the camera crew so So whoever would be watching this on the other side would be able to come and help him.

2:18:33But to be fair, it would be quite normal. That sounds quite normal to think that, like, I don't fully, fully, fully trust any crew, any team I work with. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Because if you did something like horrific, in a weird way, you would expect them to expose you, right? Right. There's a part of them that would. You'd hopefully hope that they wouldn't. If they caught you, they were doing a documentary about you and they caught you looking at animal porn or something. Yeah. Then maybe that's a better story. And maybe they should be like thinking about we need to do this, like uncover.

2:19:16Suddenly their allegiance changes. It's no longer about mourning sex, right? The documentary about mourning sex, this is mourning. They'd go to like 60 Minutes and think we have Theo Vaughn looking at extreme animal porn. Well, so you can just go to any dog park and watch it for a little bit. For free. It's not the close-ups you want. Or David Attenborough, right? That's basically what nature programs are. Oh, the snow finch. Did you meet him? I have met him. I interviewed him, not for TV, but for a magazine. What a voice of the times, huh? Great voice, yeah. Soon it will die. It will be weeks before it feeds again.

2:19:55I learned a lot from how sparing he is Like he uses the minimal Minimum amount of words In his voiceover It's winter The prawns are feeding Soon they will die You know like he just doesn't say anything Extra And there'll be some little rye And then Time for a nap You know, like you just throw in a little, kind of like a little bit of light irony. There he is. Yeah, that was when I still had my beard. Look at that. That was peak me when I had like a beard. I had a little gray. That was probably like the beginning of, like it was two years before the rot set in. And you met Nancy then? I was with Nancy.

2:20:45At least she got to be with me during the golden years. That's what counts, man. Yeah. Well, you have a love in your life. That's nice, man. Oh, yeah, very much so. I feel very lucky. Louis, thank you so much, man. Oh, man, it's a real privilege. I really feel it's a thrill being here, for real. Yeah, it's really been nice, man. I just, so many people were fascinated that we were going to be able to have you hang out with us. And so a lot of women, too. Loads. For real. Wow. Loads of women. Don't tell Nancy. No, that's nice to hear that. It's nice to be, what's the word? Like, obviously, I'm not on the menu, or I'm on the menu, but I'm not in stock, or I don't know what the metaphor is.

2:21:28Yeah, the market price is very high. Well, the chef doesn't make that anymore, unfortunately. But maybe for special occasions. Yeah, there we go. I love your attitude. No, that's a joke. I'm fully. No, that's a joke, Nancy, and you enjoy your crisps, miss. Yes. I'm sure you're a lovely lady and hopefully get to meet you one day. Louis thank you so much for your time your podcast every week is just the Louis Theroux the Louis Theroux podcast yeah on Spotify and Tell Them You Love Me is on Netflix Tell Them You Love Me is really really it's really it's crazy there's a lot of little things I felt during it I was like man do I feel this what do I know here it was cool thank you yeah shout out Nick August Perna I mentioned him enjoy the rest of your stay will do man have fun yeah I'm gonna do my best and I'll let you know next time I come in town.

2:22:20Please. Catch up on your part next time. That would be nice. Yeah, it would be a reciprocal deal. I'd love to have you on. That's very fair, man. Thank you for your time, brother. Thank you for yours. Now I'm just floating on the breeze And I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take a little bit