Grads boo AI, Reese Witherspoon gets dunked + Karpathy joins Anthropic | TWiAI E14

22:55And then, uh, I need an opening sentence. I want it to be something like this. And they kind of interpret what you want and then give it to you. That's what Whisperflow does. So what I'll do is I just put it on. I do a real long winded, um, prompt, like the person who works for me, who's an associate at a venture firm, asked me how to do a deal memo. Can you please do research on the best deal memos ever written by venture firms, which sections are important, and examples of crisp, clean writing that led to funding from a deal memo, then make me a super prompt on how to make deal memos that I can save to memory.

23:28I just like speak for 90 seconds.

23:31Karri Saarinen:They'll end up taking your Sequoia Scout deal memo, I guess. Yeah, exactly. And so it then winds up going. And then I just share the prompt with them. I'm like, here's how I would have solved your question with AI before coming to me. And they're like, okay, boss, I'll do that next time. Yeah. You're referencing the famous Uber memo in which talking about writing a short letter, it says, why should Uber exist? Why should this company exist? And I told Rulof, I don't want to write deal memos. It's a waste of time. It's like, can you just please do this so that my partners don't cancel the scouts program and i'm like fine so i write like three or four paragraphs on how you know uber changes everything and then i was like this is anyway this is our word i delete it all and i say because cabs suck and i send it to rule off to troll him and he writes back that's perfect and then the way the original scouts program was done is they took five percent of the gains and they distributed to everybody in the program who had done an investment and then you know they split the rest between their firm back in the day they split it like 50 50 basically between the scout and the thing now i think it's 35 to the person who did the deal putting all that aside, I get like Uber goes public.

24:54Ruloff sends my deal memo 11 years later to the scouts program and says each scout in this like nine person original scout class is dividing up. I don't know if it was$20 million worth of Uber shares. They each got one and a half million. I literally started getting presents from the other cohort. They're like, J. Cal, you made me a million dollars for coming to two scout meetings and i never did a scout investment thank you it's a funny story from the archives all right we gotta get to work here yeah i think i was gonna

25:26Karri Saarinen:add like i think like the mistake probably like a lot of people do with the ais is kind of like that like one like write me a letter or write me this thing or write me this plan whereas i think like a better way is like ask me questions about i'm working on this thing ask me a question what I should be thinking about. And the point of using the AI is gain understanding yourself, not just generate. Here's a plan for Jeremy, go read it. But did you actually understand anything? What is in the plan? Is it a good plan? It sounds good, but is it actually good? So I think that I use it more as a reflective surface where it's helping me to think through problems instead of like solving the problems for me or like generating the solutions.

26:12I got to remember to do that. I was just going to say, actually, if you work this way, we actually open sourced something we call Blueprint, which is like an agent skill that asks you a bunch of questions, really simple. But it's tuned to ask you really good questions because Claude by default asks you shitty questions. The questions are terrible. So if you search Imbue Blueprint, you'll be able to find it. But what we found actually is that if we first answer good questions, then we can have it one shot much harder, much bigger things. Because now it has the context from my brain about like what it needs and things like that.

26:45Yeah, exactly. And we use it primarily for code, but I've been using it for like email. You know, I need to write like or a document. And it does a pretty good job searching for stuff. Amazing. Yeah, like knowing what questions to ask. This is actually kind of a sign of huge intelligence and also entrepreneurs who succeed. also capital allocators who succeed, is figuring out what questions you didn't know to ask and finding a tool for that. I think this all falls under, Jeremy, a new category we need to bring up and codify here on This Week in AI. I'm going to call this AI etiquette. In corporations and in personal life, people need to understand AI etiquette.

27:27Yes, let's snap it up for AI etiquette. Do not just dump AI slop on your coworkers. Figure out what the goal is and, yeah, actually succeed at the goal instead of dumping slop. We need like a whole playbook for this. I don't know what else should be in the AI etiquette playbook.

27:49Karri Saarinen:I mean, the code review is definitely like the one where like if the agent writes the code for you, then you should be one reviewing it first. You can't send someone else to review because you didn't even read it yourself. So why is someone else having to read it first? So I think first read it yourself, then use the AI reviewer, and then maybe get another person to review it. But you can't send directly to other people. Your agent is your responsibility. Your code is your responsibility. Take responsibility for the output. That's the AI etiquette. AI output is your responsibility. Don't dump it on your coworkers.

28:29Absolutely. And then take out the M dashes, okay? And always give the instruction. Can I say this in less words with less fancy words? Always use less words. Always cite your work. Always double check your facts. I do this as like an ongoing prompt. At the end, I'm always like, please double check your facts. Please do citations. And then I use this model counsel on perplexity. Have you guys used perplexity model counsel before? Oh my God, it's so great. I was, I was, I was in bed with my wife and I used it last night. Sounds a little weird, but we're going to Japan in the summer. And I was like, she's like, tell me about this model council you keep talking about.

29:09I'm like, Oh, let me show you. We're going to Tokyo with the daughters for 10 days. We want to do five, six days in Tokyo. Then we want a three or four day road trip to a beach that is within a three hour train ride. The train ride can be part of the experience. Let me know which beaches I should consider within a three hour train ride of Tokyo. And it comes back with, here's what clawed 4.7. Here's what Gemini latest version. Here's what five point whatever of open AI. Then it says, here's where they agree. Here's where they disagree. Here's why they disagree. And here's what I think you should keep in mind.

29:47and here's a table with the three different results. It's like, whoa, dude. It's so awesome to have it just run that way. I don't know how many tokens this burns, but it's at least three. It's gotta be five times the amount of tokens, I think. Highly recommend checking it out. What do you got on Jeremy, your AI? What else is on your AI? What are we calling it?

30:10Karri Saarinen:Etiquette list. Etiquette. What's on your AI? Anybody got anything else for their AI etiquette list? Things that are pet peeves? Coding would definitely be one of them. where I can make sure to check your own code. Same thing with writing. To be honest, it's like, just make sure that like, as you said, like you're, it's not different than the work you did before. Whatever work you produce with AI or the work you produce before AI, it's your responsibility to make sure that that work, you know, you're willing to present that work to your boss, to your coworker, to anyone else at the company. And that shouldn't change whether you're using AI or you don't use AI.

30:43Yeah, ownership over output or ownership of output. OOO, ownership of output. Kenjin, you got anything else on your list? I don't think you should be responding to anybody who's a friend with AI content. Like interpersonal relationships, friendships, lovers, spouses, children, there should be a no AI response rule. If you respond to a friend with an AI response, that is super lame.

31:10Karri Saarinen:I had a funny story the other day. a candidate reaches out out of the blue and I look at his resume on LinkedIn and I'm like no this guy seems pretty interesting and so I schedule a call with the guy get on a call and I'm like oh thank you for you know whatever your thoughtful email and he's like oh I don't even know where I who you are like my agent essentially reached out and applied to that's pretty amazing like you just like completely like had no idea who I was and like um and so he's probably done that to 200 people but like he's done it it's it actually looked really legit so so you get an outbound you respond to it and then you find out the person who sent it it doesn't even know this came up for me the other night I was talking to this young couple uh who I met at a party and they the woman said yeah you know you know my uncle blah blah blah and I was like oh yeah I know Maybach Mike and uh they said uh yeah um I run his um I don't know hinge or whatever dating app he's on I'm like what do you mean you run it it's like I put in the filters I picked his photos I made the profile and then I go in for Maybach Mike and I do all this uh work and then I set him up on dates i'm like do the women who are going on dates with me back mike know you're writing the responses in the chat or are you doing the response to the chat or you hand it over him to the chat oh no i do all of it he just picks up at the date i'm like okay that's unbelievably dystopian or brilliant i don't know that's like agent fishing like a cat fishing but with with agent.

32:57Karri Saarinen:But I feel like that woman's job is going to soon be displaced with an agent. You can at that point just have an agent do that. AI phishing, then that's on the AI etiquette list. No AI phishing, no AI between humans in iMessage or whatever it is. It's just, it's super lame. It's just lame. Yeah. Andre Carpathy, topic number one, has joined Anthropic. He did a post at 10 a.m. This is a breaking news story here on This Week in AI. Quote, personal update, I've joined Anthropic, period. I think the next few years at the frontier of LLMs will be especially formative. I am very excited to join the team here and get back to R &D.

33:36I remain deeply passionate about education and plan to resume my work on it in time. Obviously, he was one of the co-founders of OpenAI. He worked on the autopilot vision team at Tesla. He founded an AI education platform, Eureka Labs, in 2024. he coined the term vibe coding uh he introduced auto research on march 7th that went crazy that was the open source python tool that let ai coding ai coding agents make large language models or machine learning models experiment and get better over time and like civilians started doing it. So Kanjin, how important is Carpathic to the future of AI in 2026?

34:22Obviously super important previously. And then why did he do this? Andre, uh, Andre in 2020, 2016, you, your first question is how important is him? Is he? In 2026. Obviously in 2016, but I like the way you went with it. In 2016, I am an invaluable person. In 2026, there's a lot more people who are there. So I'm just objectively looking at talent in 2026 with the industry exploding to the extent it has. How important is this of a move or is this just grabbing a bag and getting a ridiculous offer from a company that is apparently trading at$800,$900 billion with$50 million in revenue, or$40 billion in revenue.

35:14Yeah, Andre doesn't really care about money. So I think if he joined Anthropic, it's because there's something there that is interesting to him where he feels like it's uniquely suited to his contribution or something like that. And so, yeah, I think he's very, very talented. I think there are a lot of other very talented researchers. But Andre has kind of like a nose for, you know, a certain shape of thing that, you know, he wrote this viral blog post a long time ago on recurrent neural networks and what was wrong with them. And I think he's really good at kind of like framing things in a way that hit, educationally hit and help people kind of talk about things in a different way.

36:05And it's, I think, why he has such a following. And so for Anthropic, it's maybe even less about research and more about some other aspect of things for him. I'm not sure. Fascinating. Jeremy, what do you think?

36:19Karri Saarinen:I mean, of course, he's really talented. that but i think to me the story is more than just uh him joining entropic it's the fact that over the last few weeks we've seen entropic hire quite a few senior people and especially like ct i think the cto of workday or whatever became an ic at entropic or something that right like you've seen a lot of uh you know people from ctos and people on top management levels just going back going back to uh technical staff positions and i think that that is the more interesting story to me the fact that Entropic is hiring all of those senior people to join them.

36:59Karri Saarinen:Now, I wouldn't go and then say that, therefore, OpenAI is dead. We were talking about it right before you joined, Jason. It's funny because things have shifted so often over the last few months. A few months ago, six months ago, whatever, people were saying Entropic is a dead company. And then, you know, since the beginning of 2026, Entropic has had an explosion in terms of growth. And then people shifted towards saying OpenAI is that company. But, you know, I think that, you know, I would never underestimate a company that raised$120 billion in one round alone. So I think that both of those companies are, you know, currently dominating.

37:40Karri Saarinen:The question is to see whether that will remain the case or whether, you know, that will change over time. Kari, why did Andre join Anthropic? Not OpenAI, not Thinking Machines, not Google, not Meta, not SpaceX. Why would he go to Anthropic at this moment in time? And how important is any one, you know, AI executive in today's world with the industry expanding to the extent it has in your mind? Yeah, I think like continuing some of the other comments. I think like to me, like probably like what I see the most exciting part is like he has this quite original ideas of like how to apply AI in different ways.

38:22Karri Saarinen:Like he had this like knowledge wiki kind of idea and then the white coding and like kind of, I think they, I feel like a lot of the AI is still hindered by the understanding, like how to use it or like where to use it and like what is the shape of it, how to use it. I do think like maybe there is sometimes it's easier to go to a different company than return to a company that you know because I think like if you want to do something different or like differently you probably can kind of carve out that more easily in a new company like in Antropic where he doesn't have a history of doing stuff and then like I think there's a danger I don't know like I don't know him so I don't know any kind of like how he makes these decisions but I could see like sometimes like going back like something like open ai for example it's like he might get kind of stuck doing the same things he's known for or something and so like with anthropic maybe they found like a really good place for him where he can have a lot of impact and maybe it's not like hardcore research but like some kind of like applying or shaping that research to something more useful there's three things to say about andre joining anthropic i think the first is He's an incredible communicator, as you were pointing out, Kari.

39:40And he has a way of, I think, building massive consensus around how to frame AI, how to apply AI. That credibility is a massive communication tool for Anthropic, which every time Dario speaks, he creates massive investigations in Washington, D.C., massive hand-wringing. because Dario, I think, can't shut up about his P-doom. He's got a P-doom of like 90%. He thinks like 90 % this thing spirals out of control and everybody loses their job. And this has caused a lot of the hatred of AI, I believe. He is like too honest about this scenario. You know, I don't have any reason to not believe him when he says, you know, he thinks all jobs are going away.

40:30I truly believe he thinks that. I also think he's wrong, but he's the leader now of the AI industry by the fact that his company is doing the best. And people are listening to him, and they're weaponizing what he says. The Democrats are weaponizing it to stop data centers, to regulate AI. He's the worst possible spokesman for AI in America. Whereas Andre Carpathy is a great spokesperson, I think, and that might take a little of the pressure off. He could be doing that role. Number two, when you have a massive market cap in valuation, you put it to use and you take talent off the market. Google did this and Zuckerberg did this.

41:14It is a great playbook. Somebody's talented, get them off the market so they don't start a company, get them off the market so they don't join a competitor and leapfrog you. That is a tried and true playbook. So kudos to them. If they back, if they gave him$10 billion in equity, even if he's not motivated by money, it just locks him in. It becomes golden handcuffs. It becomes like the ultimate golden cage, right? Like, how do you say no to$10 billion in options? And how does Dario not offer him$10 billion if he thinks he could make the company 1 % better? And he will make the company more than 1 % more value.

41:52And 1 % of a trillion dollars is$10 billion, right? So you have no choice but to do that. I think the communication thing is an interesting juxtaposition, by the way, to OpenAI, which bought like a bro podcast, like a tech bros podcast. And I don't think that's worked. All it's done is made the competitors not want to go on the podcast. And the podcast now feels like, OK, it's just like a PR arm. So that's an interesting juxtaposition. And third and finally, each of these companies is turning into a bit of a cult. And SpaceX is the tech libertarian monk cult. It's the engineering cult. We want to be tech monks and be in this town on the edge of America building a starship that goes to Mars.

42:49If that appeals to you, and it appeals to a lot of tech people, to be multi-planetary, to answer questions. Like you go work for Elon. If you're woke and you're left-leaning, you're a Democrat, you have a P-doom that's a little higher, you join Anthropic. And if you're a cutthroat capitalist dealmaker, you join OpenAI. If Sam Altman's screw everybody and build the valuation and do deals and piss everybody off appeals to you, you go work for him. And what has that done? I think OpenAI is losing the talent race to those other two. That's just my very surface level evaluation. Tell me what I got wrong, Kanjin.

43:33Oh, he's calling me first for these. You're expressive. So I have thinking machines hooked here. Mira gave me an early release of it. So I have thinking machines. And it told me there's an 87 % chance based on your facial expressions that you want to add. and the other two guys had like 40s and 50s. Oh, thinking machines. It's doing real-time assessment of your propensity to drop a banger right now. So do it. I don't got a banger for you. No hot take. No, I think you're not wrong, but also that none of these people are doing this intentionally. I think like Sam Altman just is kind of like screw people over kind of person.

44:15And so the leaders will always attract the team and culture that they're building. And it turns out that screwing people over in business is not a good long-term strategy, which I think is why they, you know, ultimately it probably wouldn't work out for them. Whereas I think, you know, Dario is a very like, he's very earnest. Yes. It's very hard to get him to be not earnest. And that's a, you know, he's kind of like a pillar. You can't move him. And in that sense, you know, if that pillar is pointed in the right direction, then the pillar is just going to keep going in that direction. And so I think that's what we see in the industry.

44:53Like Anthropic was like, okay, this might kill everyone. We should try to make them harmless and honest and helpful. And also we should invest in coding because that's how it's going to self-improve and let's just keep doing that. And we should hold back a release because it might not be good for humanity. We should hold back releases. But I think the thing that is weird about Anthropic is that even though I want to believe that they're the good guys, they're also doing a lot of very anti-competitive things that are like very capitalistic. And maybe that's not the, you know, that's not just the like, maybe it's not intentional.

45:28Maybe it's just the incentives, but you know, they like locked out a bunch of third-party providers, like open code and open claw. They're like, you're, you can only use the API. Like if you use first-party Anthropic products, then you can use the max plan, which is like a 20X savings on your API tokens. So very subtle way to penalize open source and competitors. Most people would look at that. The FTC is not savvy enough to understand how cutthroat that is. Exactly. It took them 20 years to figure out what bundling a browser in Windows meant, right? It took them like 20 years to figure out what putting Google services at the top of search results in the first 300 pixels did to Yelp.

46:18If we're going to put Google Local up there, you no longer need to go to Yelp. We will take the oxygen out of it. They're just not savvy enough to know how anti-competitive that is. It's a really good point. No, they're not. And so how is the market going to play out? Like Anthropic is saying, okay, use Anthropic first-party products. like try to keep the data inside Anthropic first-party products. You build your whole workflow on Anthropic first-party products. You can't swap out. Even when OpenAI is winning, has better models. It's going to be expensive to swap out.

46:49Karri Saarinen:But to be clear, that's only for the individual plans. So companies kind of have to play for the API plans anyway. But I do agree that this pricing is kind of messed up there out in the market. and I my take on the what they're doing is that I don't think they realized what they were doing like so like creating this plan is like oh well people code some stuff on like eight hours a day they didn't expect like someone's gonna hook this up to some like eight agenda system that will run like a hundred agents like every minute of the day and like now they're realizing like yeah that doesn't work so we have to put some limits but that's the mistake like the classic pricing mistake is like it is always annoying like you shouldn't give out things that you will take away later because people will always hate you like you should have started from like no there's don't use anything and then you can only buy this plan if you you use it with the first party products and like people would be maybe people still don't like it but at least they like knew what they were buying but now they bought something and then now it's taken away from them and so it obviously it's not fair like the other thing though is that like what what's really interesting is that anthropic is like oh you can't use claude um you know pro max subscriptions programmatically using claude dash p but uh now with vibe coding anyone can actually just hack this terminal agent to do claude dash p without using claude dash p so um i think there's this really interesting battle going that is happening or about to about to start i was calling this punk software people who are like building software to like tear down the walled gardens and try to keep data their own and like, you know, try to make it so that we're not captured, you know, no, we don't get stuck in these walled gardens of the next generation of AI SaaS tools.

48:39I think this is, you know, you were saying, Jason, that everyone's booing AI at commencement speeches. Yeah, it's our next story. It's our next story. Okay, we'll get to it. Jeremy, you wanted to get in on this. So like the all you can eat buffet is an incredible draw in Vegas is an incredible draw, you know, in your small town to get people to come for lunch until a competitive eater shows up and eats every one of the shrimp. And then when the shrimp plate comes out for the second round, they're waiting and they just take the whole plate. Like it's all you can eat with a star on it.

49:13Karri Saarinen:Yeah. But, but like, to be honest, I'm, I'm a bit puzzled by why anyone is surprised by that. Like, I mean, that has been like, it's not new to AI, right? Like Amazon is doing that with resellers. Apple, as you mentioned, did it with the App Store. Google did it with search distribution. I mean, that same thing happens over and over again, right? I think it's just like, I guess the difference now is that the platform itself is programmable intelligence, which is different than, you know, where like there is a difference between the boundary where like what you had before, which was, you know, the platform and the application layer.

49:49Karri Saarinen:Now that gets blurry. And so that's why, personally, I would be worried about building on the application layer because you know that those platforms are going to try and verticalize everything. They're going to steal your ideas. Correct. Basically, what every developer needs to understand, whether you're dealing with, you know, if you think that Sam is inherently, you know, chaotic, evil, you know, in terms of Dungeons and Dragons. And he's the scorpion on the frog who's like, the frog's like, why did you sting me? and it's like, well, I'm a scorpion. I mean, duh, it's like, it's in the packaging.

50:25There's like a giant stinger. Like, did you not see it? And then anthropic is like, we're the good guys. We're looking out for humanity, but we do need to figure out how to pay for Colossus 1. We have a hundred billion dollar bill due to Elon and Oracle and whoever else is building capacity, Google for us. They're going to need to do the application level and verticalize everything here. And if you're training it, you know, then maybe you're the frog with the snake on its, with the scorpion on its back, whether the scorpion is, you know, upfront about being a scorpion in the case of OpenAI or they're camouflaging it in some way and it doesn't look like it.

51:07Karri Saarinen:uh i mean and yeah and i and and that's why i think that you know if you're a developer or company like you need to find a way unique ways to keep your uh to keep your customers right whether it's i mean like think about you know apple right like apple did it uh didn't they do that with apple music after spotify launched right like they they saw there was so much popularity they built apple music and what did spotify do they found creative ways to keep their uh their users whether it was at a certain point, I believe they paid for, to have Joe Rogan only be able to have his podcast on Spotify.

51:42Karri Saarinen:But like, you know, what Cursor is doing in terms of like creating a really great experience for some developers. Or like, you know, you just need to make sure that whatever you build doesn't depend exclusively on the frontier labs in order to maintain an edge over those frontier labs building in those verticals. Kenjin and Kari, you both, I believe, are building on top of Frontier Labs. Does it make you nervous that they could rug pull you, they could study you and copy you, and they probably are doing that already? And then what's the solution there? Do you eventually have to take an open source model and train some models for yourself and stop sharing your data with the anthropics of the world, with the open AIs of the world?

52:28Karri Saarinen:Yeah, I mean, I think like no one really knows like where this will lead. And like, I think that's still the question is like how much they're going to verticalize and like to what degree, like we haven't quite seen that yet. Like, yeah, like you have a cloud legal or design, but it's kind of like a prompt you run, like it's not like a full fledged product in a way. And so I don't know if they will have the appetite to like solve a lot of problems. And like, for example, like linear, a lot of times I think about it, it's not really, it's not really a technical problem. like it's more like a human problem like how do you organize things in an organization or like get how do you like how is the organization productive and like gains the right understanding about how things are going so i don't know if they will have these labs will have the motivation to solve people problems this way like do you worry about it and do you have a plan like if you are the founder you must be keeping it front and center in your mind and what's your plan if they do suddenly me say, hey, here's a straight up competitor to linear.

53:27Karri Saarinen:I think the product is the plan. And I think the more we can, I think we can build, we are building one product. They're building maybe hundreds or thousands of products if we assume that they will verticalize everything. So I think in the end, it's like who will have the higher motivation and what is the exact advantage the frontier lab can have because in some ways we have the ability to do our stuff and then gain the AI LLMs to use in our product too. So we can use their technology. They can't really directly use our product or the product thinking in a way. So I think our advantage is the product thinking and the product, the team we have and the relationships or whatever understanding we have you'll always be more focused on yeah the the customer but i guess the question kenjun is at what point do people on the application layer say yolo i'm going to build i'm going to build on an open source model i'm going to host it locally i'm going to have my customers hosting a um uh of you know a verticalized small language model in slm when when do people start protecting their kingdom, putting walls up to stop those frontier models from absorbing everything?

54:55Or am I being paranoid about this? Not paranoid. Not paranoid. No. I think responding to your point, Kari, if we look far enough into the future, this thing is going to be incredibly, all of these models are going to be super capable, much more intelligent than we are as humans. And so, you know, they can come after every application, every industry, and Anthropic and OpenAI and the model labs will verticalize in the industries that are profitable. So if you have, you know, if you have customers that they want, and they think that this is a good industry to go into, they will go into it. So I think that risk is a huge and real risk.

55:35And that's why I'm concerned about power concentration and the centralization, because these models are incredibly powerful as a technology, and they're incredibly intimate. They know everything about us. They can control us. They can influence us. Intimate in the way that our software even today is very intimate. But the models are even more intimate. Claude knows more about me than my partner knows about me. And that does not say anything about my partner. I love him very much. We're very close. Well, you can get a key, if you get a keystroke logger on your devices, and then you could just send that to your partner and then their LLM can just - Yeah, he can digest, you know.

56:13He can digest it and be like, hey, honey, I understand you got your password wrong for 10 months. That must've been incredibly frustrating for you. Exactly. If Claude doesn't get there first. Yeah, exactly. But to your point - Yeah, continue. I was just going to say to your point, I think actually that it's very important how we architect the industry as we're going forward. So one of the things that we released recently is an agent orchestrator where you can swap out the underlying model or harness really easily. So whether you use Cloud or OpenAI or an open source model and everything that we're building is on top of that.

56:51And so that means that everything that we're building, you can easily swap out the model underneath. And also everything we're building is like meant to keep user data yours, like local or in your own servers and like meant to not verticalize. And so just trying to figure out like how can we create an alternate ecosystem, an alternate path where it's not just like everything getting swallowed into this giant juggernaut machine. I think actually as an industry, we need to decide, like each of us needs to decide, like, no, I'm going to choose a path that does allow me to commoditize the underlying models.

57:27And I'm going to use these orchestration systems that do allow me to swap out the underlying models really easily. Like, I think that's actually really important in order to stay competitive and keep it a competitive industry because the FCC is not going to help us. This is the key, Jeremy, in my mind, which is if you make your product headless and it can swap out, it has an orchestration level. When I use perplexity, I don't know what model it's going to use. I just ask my question. It routes it intelligently or I use the model council and I'll pick ones just so I can stay up on them. And then I did the same with my open claw.

58:01It had Kimi 2.5 in a virtual machine that we started referencing or it was using clawed. And it would just pick itself or I would tell it in my prompt, use Claude for this, use this for this. That seems to me to be the way to defend against everything going to one player as is open source and these very powerful Macs. I have the M5 right here. I unplugged my Mac Mini and I started plugging my system into the M5. I have 48 gigs of RAM. I'm thinking of just giving this to somebody on my team and getting the 128. I don't know if there's a 256 gig one, but having all that extra memory is just so amazing.

58:42And I want to start running local models. And people are now daisy chaining them. They're getting like five Mac M5s, putting them into like a stand, daisy chaining them together. There's a piece of software to have it addressed as one cluster. And that's actually the most affordable cluster. now you can exo labs is the company that does this we got to have him back on the program but somebody do a quick uh picture of it and pull it up on the screen here uh alex chima is the the founder over there and until the studio comes out like this to me jeremy feels like the future yeah here's exo labs those are pictures of like stacked studios jason you know you know one place

59:24Karri Saarinen:where i've actually seen that uh with my own eyes has been with you know enterprises a lot of enterprises have data is their moat, and they want to keep total control and sovereignty over their data. And so we've actually embraced that. So what we have done is, I believe we're currently the first and only company to have built something called Confidential Compute with Amazon, which means that we can deploy our models fully within a customer's own environment, own VPC, and encrypt both the model at the architecture layer and at the weights layer. And so the enterprise knows that the data stays with them, and we know that they cannot decrypt our models.

1:00:04Karri Saarinen:And so that essentially gives both sides a win-win. And that's, you know, as opposed to what we've seen with, you know, the LLM world, where like, you know, if you use OpenAI or Entropic, as you mentioned, right, you move your data to their infrastructure, which a lot of large enterprises are not willing to do. Or you use open source models, but then you have to host everything yourself. Yeah, we have a company, Abacus, that is doing proprietary language models for organizations. And we incubated them and they pivoted their way to this. But it's very interesting. Companies now are saying, I want to, every week, take...

1:00:48I can't just use our data and train a model and then essentially run a job every week to do reinforcement learning on it just based on our data and never share that model with anybody. Like this is clearly the future. Here's a picture, by the way, Kanjun, of five MacBook 128 gigs. And I think these cost 4K each. So five of them would be 20K. I believe that this, I'm stalling so my guys can put it on the screen. Wake up, guys. This is the cluster of the future. So here is, I guess, three or four. That looks like four of them. And yeah, you just use ExoLabs and put them together. The fans must be blowing really hard on those because they don't have great heat sinks.

1:01:43But I believe that this is the most affordable stack today. Wow. Here's Abacus. So it's goabacus.co. But they're making this box and you put it on and you put it in your organization. I think the box costs 75K or maybe it's 75K for the year and they incorporate building your language model. And this is for regulated industries. This is, Jeremy, a good partner for you. I'll introduce you to the founder offline. or Oliver, can you do that? You might actually have a good partnership here of putting your software on theirs as well. But yeah, on-prem, I think, is coming back.

1:02:20Karri Saarinen:But I'm wondering about the training. Isn't it one of the bitter lessons that the training always ends up useless eventually because the model capability keeps increasing? So yeah, you will eat this bitter lesson all the time, and maybe it still makes sense. You just keep training and training. but it's like kind of the capabilities are getting maybe like greater faster than your training produces results so i'm just kind of questioning it's like how much actually any experience kenjin on this specifically of like hey i'm going to roll my own model i'll fork deep seek or kimmy and then use all of my own personal training data to what what do you call that when you use your own training data and put it into a model Fine tuning or like, yeah, kind of like continual learning on your own data.

1:03:12Yeah, I think there are a few ways to think about this. One is kind of the way I think about open source versus closed source models is the models will keep getting better. The open source models and the closed source models will keep getting better. It seems like open source is about a year behind closed source and has roughly stayed that way. um and so the frontier you know frontier tasks in terms of capabilities like the hardest things they'll always require the frontier models but there's some things that even now are starting to only require the capabilities of an open source model you know not all tasks are like infinitely hard and so probably what you want is something that routes things to cheaper models and i think cost is going to be start being a concern next year um is you you want something that routes things to cheaper models and open source models are cheap.

1:03:59And so how do you do think about fine tuning or training on these open source models? Well, you do want to be careful. Like we don't train our own open source models. We just wait for the next ones to come out, but we do do, you can do things like, um, there's a, there's something called Laura L O R A, which is a little adapter layer that you can train that you can kind of like put on like a bandaid or a patch on top of an open source model or any open weights model. And then that will kind of fine tune it to a specific task or specific purpose. And so if you have a training corpus and you train up, you like make a little LoRa patch, then you can kind of like in theory, patch it onto any open source model and get your own data and context into that model.

1:04:40Now, this is all very early. Like I think a lot of this research is still very early. And so it doesn't work. LoRa works really well for certain applications, but not for others. But I think that's the kind of thing that we have to develop and we'll see more of of these like little patches you can tag on. Well, this story silently went through this week, Kari. Chrome didn't tell anybody and they installed a four gigabyte LLM. I think it's Gemini Nano and it's doing interesting things like I'm assuming, you know, text-based things. And they're now, I think, being a little more upfront about it.

1:05:20But your browser has it And I guess websites can call it and it will do proofreader, writer, rewriter, all this kind of easy layup. So this to me feels, Kari, like a step in that direction is everybody will have some micro tiny LLMs in their products.

1:05:42Karri Saarinen:Well, I was also curious about the harness. So like, do you create those? because I think like we've been talking a lot about models, but like model is just like, it doesn't do anything like really. So like, but then the harness kind of like what it makes useful, which I think then like you could have cloud code is like a code specific harness. So like could you create more specific type of harnesses for specific tasks and then run whatever open source models with them. We made this open source harness that this is for coding agents kind of, but it doesn't have anything specific to code. And so you can run any agent and the agents will write their own code and things like that.

1:06:22So there's a harness that we made that's open source that lets you swap out. It supports, you know, Pi and, you know, Codex and all of these other agents in addition to Cloud. And I think that the harness layer, this is actually one layer above the harness layer. The harness is kind of like the thing that orchestrates the model itself. And then this is the thing that orchestrates the thing that orchestrates the model. and um i think the harness is actually probably going to co-evolve with the model and so you you know what we see with anthropic is that the cloud code harness you know they're probably training the underlying models alongside like with the cloud code harness if you use a different harness with anthropic models they won't it won't work as well um and so i think we're going to see that kind of like adapter where the model harness is like a unit.

1:07:11And probably someone will figure out how to make it a little bit easier to like tune your harness to a model or tune your model to a harness. But we haven't seen that yet. I don't want to end before hitting on graduation season. Everybody loves all these commencement speeches. They're so inspiring. And tech leaders have been doing this forever. Seminal, amazing, inspiring speeches for graduates. Steve Jobs obviously did one. But we've had a trio. Eric Schmidt, friend of the pod, Google CEO, Big Machine Records CEO, Scott Boracetta, and Gloria Caulfield, Tavistock Development Vice President. I think these are all different layers of commencement speeches that are commensurate with the school.

1:08:06Eric Schmidt, seemingly a great get. I'm going to play just maybe 30 seconds of Eric getting booed every time he speaks, and then I'll have you respond, and then we'll do Scott and Gloria. So let's start with Eric Schmidt. Here's the high-res version of his keynote. It will touch every profession, every classroom, every hospital, every laboratory, every person, and every relationship you have. I know what many of you are feeling about that. I can hear you. There is a fear.

1:08:48We do not know. We do not know the precise contours of what this transformation will look like. Choose a diversity of perspectives, including, let me add, and if you'd let me make this point, please. Oof. All right, we can, I think, stop there. Jeremy, why are these students booing Eric Schmidt? That's the question.

1:09:19Karri Saarinen:I think, to be honest, I think the boos are ridiculous. First of all, I think that those students are hypocrites. I guess they profess to hate AI, but I can guarantee that every single one of them has used either Chad Gipti or Claude for every first draft of every essay they've written during college. So that's the first thing. And second thing, I think it's also there's never been a better time to be graduating from college in history. I think that AI is a really powerful tool for your creative expression. And I think creativity and critical thinking will still be very important. But on the other hand, I do understand that, you know, there is anxiety about job displacement.

1:10:00But I think that that, like, ignores the bigger picture.

1:10:03Karri Saarinen:And I think, you know, Mark Andreessen made the point of, like, fear of AI is more dangerous than AI itself. And I do believe that that's the case. You know, even though, like, today, you know, like, when you look at AI, you look at the fact that it's a technology that essentially does what humans do, but much better and faster. and maybe AI, whatever, tomorrow or next week or next month will do things beyond what humans can do. But that won't happen overnight. And I think that a lot of those fears are overblown. All right. So Jeremy, your take. They're entitled hypocrites who shouldn't be booing.

1:10:40They should be embracing. I like the hot take. Let's play our next candidate on who wants to get booed at a commencement speech for referencing AI. Here is Scott Borchetta and then Kari, you're going to get a chance to comment on the first two. And then I'll play one more and Ken June, you'll be batting cleanup here. So here's our second commencement speech. Go, Scott. AI is rewriting production as we sit here. I know it. Deal with it. Like I said, it's a tool. hey like i said you can you can hear me now or you can pay me later

1:11:24hey then do something about it okay it's a tool make it work for you all right okay so uh kari there we go you've seen too eric schmidt who was like please let me finish a little condescending then this next person he's just like hey straight up it's a tool deal with it what's your take on our first two uh commencement speeches and the booze that they got for invoking the ai super god

1:11:53Karri Saarinen:i mean i think this connects a little bit on the whole problem with the ai comms that like it seems like people in the field don't know like who they're speaking to and i think like this these comment speeches, I think the failure really is like understanding the audience or reading the room. Like you, you don't go to like an oil workers union to talk about, Hey, do you know, like what's cool, like electrical cars. And like, even if you believe that, and, but what you do go there is like, Hey, like, yeah, you know, there's electrical cars, but you know what oil does? It does a lot of other things.

1:12:26Karri Saarinen:And like, we should be thinking about more ways to do that. And so I think that they, I think these people think they kind of like give the speech they would give like, I don't know, some like tech conference or like some like boardroom or something. They're not thinking like, who are they giving the speech to? And maybe they think that they're giving some kind of lesson here or some kind of, they're trying to help these students. But they, like, if you make a speech, you need to like address the emotions first. Like if you like if you whatever you say, it generates this kind of response. There's like emotional reaction.

1:13:01Karri Saarinen:And like you if you are a great speaker, you should be able to like work around that. Like you should be able to respond properly. I think the person who said, hey, tools, they're just tools. Deal with it. He was a little too hot. Eric Schmidt was a little too cold and condescending. Let's see if our third speaker gets it right. Here's our third commencement speaker. And then I'm going to give you a secret fourth. I'm going to surprise you guys with a fourth hot take that I think is the best one. Here is our third commencement speech. It's Gloria. Go, Gloria. Change is exciting, very exciting.

1:13:37And let's face it, change can be daunting. The rise of artificial intelligence is the next industrial revolution.

1:13:58Wow. This is pretty interesting. I struck a chord. Yes, you did. Kanjun, you get to bat clean up here. What is happening? Why are students so vocal when the word artificial intelligence is spoken at their commencement addresses. I mean, I think it's real. Their fear is real. This is a technology we're building that is threatening and doing what we as humans conceive ourselves to be, which is intelligent species. We are not animals because we're intelligent. And it threatens our very identities as people. You know, we believe as humans, we work to provide. You know, we're here to work and do work.

1:14:47And this technology threatens and says, no, no, no, it's going to do work better than we do. And it's going to do everything that we're doing today better than we do, except maybe have relationships. You know, there are things it can't do. And so I think there's a real truth to what people, what students are feeling. And there's no narrative that replaces it. No one is saying in the tech, people are like, this is a great industrial revolution. It's like, okay, that doesn't really resonate with people. You know, the real truth is like, this is telling us where we fit as humans in an ecosystem of intelligence, species, animals, life, and other things.

1:15:26And perhaps the thing we should not be doing is cranking out emails every single day. That's not something that we're very excited to do all the time. But I think the other thing that it points out is also a real sense of disempowerment that people feel, that students feel, that the younger generation, a lot of younger friends I have feel, that they feel like kind of the powers that be are controlling them or they don't feel like they have very much say. In American democracy, we kind of see this. And so it reflects a moment in time. And I think that disempowerment is real in a sense. Yes. Kind of why, you know, I, I, I speak to it as like, oh, we're building technology and that technology controls people.

1:16:10And that that's real. The addictive feeds, the phone addiction, you know, all of that profit seeking. Like we have teams that optimize for engagement, engagement of people's attention. Like we have internal teams at tech companies that do that. I think there's a real kind of like moral question as to whether that's a good thing. I think, Kari, I doubt that Linear has a team that optimizes for engagement. I love Linear. I think it's a really good product. And I don't think that you think about product building that way. And I think there is a morality to building products that we aren't respecting.

1:16:39And people feel that. Yeah, it's very interesting. There is a moment in the TV show, The Sopranos, where the grandmother, Tony Soprano's mom, who is like kind of mentally ill, you know, Alzheimer or whatever. and she just says to Tony's son, the live soprano, she says, it's all a big nothing. Like incredibly nihilistic, incredibly like demoralizing. And she says it to like a 12 year old kid and he's kind of crushed by it. He's like, life is just nothing. And that's, I think, how these kids are feeling now about their future. They've been told, they hear Dario saying all jobs are going away. They see these clips on social media.

1:17:24Then they see Mondami in New York saying these billionaires and Bernie Sanders saying, Ro Khanna, the whole cohort saying, hey, we are, this is the largest wealth creation ever. And you're not part of it. And even if, and then they see the layoffs happening in a very large way. And Jack says, hey, listen, I'm just going to cut half a block because the writing's on the wall. And Coinbase does the same thing and they get rid of 15, 20 % and they see meta not hiring and Zuckerberg cuts 20 ,000 people here, 10 ,000 people there and says, hey, it's all because of AI. They're listening. They're going into the job market.

1:18:02They're talking to career counselors. And all they're hearing is all the entry-level jobs, there's no training program, there's no professional development, all those first rung of the ladder, first, second, third rung, they're all just being taken off the ladder and these companies are going to become wildly profitable. So if they hear that, they go, well, this kind of sucks. And then you have the audacity as Eric Schmidt to come up there in their minds. I'm not saying this is my belief. And he says, listen, you're scared. I understand. It's like, well, fuck you. We're not scared. You're telling us that you don't need us.

1:18:34The world doesn't need us. And that it's all a big nothing. Okay. If it's all a big nothing, then fuck off. And we're going to boo you off the stage because you're an out of touch Gen X or boomer who made their money and now is torching the entire fucking world with your AI. That's their feeling. Now, are they right or wrong? Are they luddites? You know, OK, yeah, I think they're misinformed. It's the greatest opportunity to start a company ever. But it's the worst opportunity probably to go work in big tech. All we are thinking about is how do we make companies that have 10 or 25 or 100 million per employee.

1:19:12It's the best opportunity to do a startup because two or three people can get to a million in revenue faster than ever. And that's$333 ,000 each. You're golden and you own your company. It's the worst opportunity to work in big tech because they don't want to train people anymore. They're just taking their 10x employees and making them 11x, 12x, 13x. And that's a better strategy. If you're Zuckerberg, if you're Brian Armstrong, if you're jacket block it is better to just give more tokens to your top performers give better hardware give them more h100s h200s whatever it is that's a better strategy so it's like a best of times worst of times yeah but i mean go ahead you're you and i might be on either side of this i don't know if we have common ground or space between our two different views i don't know i just think that you

1:19:57Karri Saarinen:know um a lot of those young people are also you know in a way lazy and right it's now now is the time to reinvent yourself like and the difference won't be education in my opinion it will be like whether you're leveraging ai or you're not leveraging ai like you know you say like you know all of those companies are firing people that's true but at the same time you know open ai um i was talking to uh someone in the co-op dev department a few weeks ago and he said they were they were at roughly 4500 people they are gonna double by the end of the year you know who's getting those jobs the top the top people people who are using ai and people who are reinventing themselves and people who are, you know, performing better with the new skill sets.

1:20:35Karri Saarinen:And at the same time, like, you know, Jensen Huang, I believe, said something along those lines at GTC. You know, if you're a CEO and you fire half of your people, that means that you're not a creative CEO, because, you know, you should essentially have those people and leverage them with tools to perform better. And so I think that all of those things, you know, are true. while it is true that there is real fear about job displacement, but I think it is overblown. And when you look at the Industrial Revolution, I'm sure that the same things you just mentioned, Jason, were also felt by people then, right?

1:21:09Karri Saarinen:Yeah. And it's different now. Yes, we're automating cognition. It's different. I agree. But still, that same fear on an individual basis was felt then. And I don't think that anyone looks now and says, you know what, I want to go to a pre-Industrial Revolution world. That's just not true. And so, and then - Well, you know, to Eric Schmidt's credit, he does say, you have the choice. You have the agency to do this. Go use the tools. And they didn't like that either. I think he has a bit of off-putting, and I know Eric, but he's so hyper-intelligent and he thinks he's giving them the best advice, but the way he packaged it was a bit condescending.

1:21:49Karri Saarinen:It's not just Eric Schmidt. It's all of that, right? The three people you showed, right? The reaction seems to be the same from those students. And the point here is just make sure that nothing will be handed to you. Just work hard and make sure that you do something with it. Okay. Here we go. You each get to give your five-sentence commencement speech that you would have done better. Okay? So I'll give you all a chance to think about that. This is your assignment. Here we go. I'll go first to give you guys a little bit of time. Graduates, parents, administrators, and teachers, thank you for coming out today.

1:22:26It is an honor to address you here at Harvard University. We stand at the crossroads of the creation of superintelligence. And this is an incredible milestone for humanity. And it's a huge technological innovation. But all of these innovations mean nothing. Without humans, the creative spirit, the intentionality. So as you go into the workforce and maybe you're hearing about job layoffs or maybe you're hearing your career is gonna be automated, understand that nothing, nothing is more powerful than the power of intent and individuals working together towards a common goal. And these will be looked at, all of these AI tools and all of the nonsense you're hearing from these AI billionaires will mean nothing in the future.

1:23:17they are but

1:23:23paintbrushes and canvases and you get to decide and define the future. Thank you everybody I wish you great success. Ed Roaring cheers Okay Kenjin it's your chance to give your commencement speech and now to the stage our top graduate from the class of Stanford when did you graduate Stanford students I went to MIT You went to MIT. And now the incredible entrepreneur, Kenjin Q, graduate of MIT, giving MIT's commencement speech here for 2026. Rounding applause. Good. Five sentences. So at MIT, we talk a lot about building things and progress and how cool technology is. And I think going into this world, the important thing to think about is not Just, oh, what can we build?

1:24:18How cool is it? How much progress can we make? How much can we automate things? It's to think about what is this all for? Why are we doing this? Why are we building AI? It's not just to drive some capitalist machine. It's not just to make money. The purpose of it is because we all want to live better as humans. And it's very easy to lose track of that when we're just building technology because it's cool and we have a bunch of enterprise customers. And so I would challenge you all students to think about what kind of future you want to live in and to build toward that future. Don't build things that you don't want to see in the world.

1:24:57And don't build things even that you would want to see, but that are not the most important thing. Instead, I think you should build with AI the things that you want for yourself going into the future. And find some way to make money. Unfortunately, I think that's the hard part. If people had enough money, then they would go and be creative. But I think a lot of people are in the game of trying to make money. Kari, go ahead. It's your commencement speech. Where did you graduate from? What's the great university in Finland? No. What's the great university of Finland? What's the top four?

1:25:27Karri Saarinen:There's the Alto University in Helsinki. All right. Welcome to the Alto Helsinki graduation. Today, we have somebody who never had a degree, but we're giving him an honorary dual PhD doctorate for his incredible work on behalf of the six million people who live in Finland. What's the population of Finland right now? Five and a half, I think. Okay, I rounded up. Kari, you have the stage. Inspire the people of Finland. All right. So I didn't graduate from school, but you all are today graduating. And we are all in this now in this world of artificial intelligence. And for many people, including me, it creates a lot of uncertainty.

1:26:09Karri Saarinen:It raises questions about jobs, like what is the structure of the government, or the structure of the societies, what it means to be a human, like how do we should be spending our time? Those questions are real and we shouldn't ignore them, but you should also know that the news, what you read, can be one-sided. And today I would want to more speak about hope. So the hope for AI is not really that the machines replace the human potential. The hope is that the machines help more people reach it. An AI can help students learn new things. It can help you to do things you never could done by yourself.

1:26:46Karri Saarinen:And it can help you gain more understanding. And hopefully the whole society can learn from with it, not to replace the society with the machines or with AI thinking. So I think technology never creates alone like a better future that people who use it do. So all of this starts from you. It's like you can take the technology, direct it in a way that makes a better world. Amazing. Standing ovation. We'll put some post-production applause there, and we'll put a bunch of students roaring after each of your speeches, standing up, giving a massive determination.

1:27:24Jeremy, we'll close with you. Thank you. Where did you graduate from?

1:27:29Karri Saarinen:Johns Hopkins. All right. Today, Jeremy is giving the commencement speech for Johns Hopkins. And did you get a PhD there, Jeremy? No, that was my undergrad. Undergrad. And we're giving an honorary PhD. in philosophy and computer science, a dual degree to Jeremy. Do you have the stage? So there has never been a better time in history to be graduating. AI will make it easier for anyone to create businesses, art, ideas, solutions at not just a local scale, but at a global scale. And while I know that many of you may be fearing AI replacing your jobs, every major technological revolution was doubted before it actually transformed society for the better.

1:28:14Karri Saarinen:And the future will not belong to people who compete against AI, but it will belong to people who learn how to use it creatively and responsibly. And because at the end of the day, no matter how powerful technology becomes, the world will always need human creativity, judgment and courage. And so I am very excited about the future and the possibilities that you will unlock with AI. Amazing. Here it is. Oh my God. Everybody's going crazy. Incredible applause. You know, I'll just leave you with this. The New York Times dunked on Reese Witherspoon this weekend because she's a girl boss and she was giving people good advice for AI.

1:29:02Here's what they said. This is like the most incomprehensible, woke, nonsense victimhood I've ever read. But all right, quoting from this New York Times article that barbecued a bunch of successful female entrepreneurs, including Reese Witherspoon, quote from the editorial page. Nobody wants a parasocial bestie who shills for the plutocrats who are nullifying their votes, degrading their educations, jacking up their power bills, stealing their wages and rigging the system. There is no feminist case for scaring people into adopting AI. Why would anyone even try? And then they get into all of this nonsense of like attacking these women who are entrepreneurs.

1:29:42This is in the New York Times, so I don't think anybody read it. But I'm bringing it up here because this is part of the problem is people are just saying like, you know, this is all bad and your electricity bill is going up. You're not going to get a job. And here's Reese Witherspoon, who got dunked on it. And she has a pretty simple take. Time to learn about AI. I was with 10 women at a book club yesterday and I said to the 10 of them, how many of you guys use AI? And only three of them used AI. And then I said, how many of the three of you feel like you really know what you're doing or they're using it the right way?

1:30:18And that was only one person. So if three out of 10 women are the only ones using AI, that means 70 % of that group is not keeping up. The thing I've learned about technology is if you don't get a little bit of understanding from the very beginning, it just speeds past you. So you have to have little bits of learning just to keep up. And let's get real. Our kids are all using this every single day. I think we should learn the basics together and learn some really good tools that are going to make our everyday lives easier and better. Kenjin, you're a woman. So I'll have you speak on behalf of all women and the feminists move in second, first, third, negative retrograde waves.

1:31:02I can't keep up with all the different waves of feminism, but I have three daughters and a wife, so I'm soaking in it. What's your take here on this condescending bullshit from The New York Times and then Reese Witherspoon's completely, I don't want to lead the witness here, reasonable advice for people. Speaking on behalf of all women everywhere. As is your right and want. As is my right, yes, and want. Yes. I don't know, man, this is kind of bullshit. I think it's great to adopt AI and use it to make things better. I do think that the New York Times is trying to point at, like, hey, our system has problems.

1:31:44But I think a lot of the issue with that is just saying, hey, our system has problems doesn't point at the underlying mechanisms of the problems or what's actually going on. And so like these two are completely separate divorced things. Like one is use AI. Yes, obviously you should use it. There's a really good tool. And the other one is like the system has problems and it's concentrating power, you know, not to go back to concentrating power, but it's real. And so they're like, ah, if you support AI, then you support power concentration. I don't know if that's true. If you use AI, you're going to support giving yourself more power.

1:32:22So I think this is maybe a puzzlement, a confusion. Speaking on behalf of all women everywhere. Yes. And since you are speaking on behalf of all women and for all women and future women, I think we'll end on that since you did it so perfectly. I'm sure all women feel heard and you've held space for them and for the New York Times. I mean, how does Reese Witherspoon take a taking strays? She's wonderful. She's delightful. She's inspiring. She's talented. She's making a smoothie. Like, let her cook. Literally, let her cook and let her give advice. She's a great entrepreneur and a success story. nobody hates women who are successful women as much as the new york times is what i've come to the conclusion here uh and yeah the balance of power is not going to be swayed by reitz witherspoon's use or opinion on ai uh of like yeah the top models uh okay you all get a plug jeremy uh give people a plug of how they can engage with your company if you're hiring anything you want to

1:33:29Karri Saarinen:give a plug to now the plugs yes we are hiring very quickly um you can go to fundamental.tech slash careers or follow us on linkedin and on x um and we would love to talk to you if somebody is incredibly talented and they wanted to just show you that and reach out to you directly they can guess your email jeremy at fundamental.tech okay there you go that's for the super high performers that's for the top seven uh kari uh top one top one percent top one percent that's what i said yes 0.7 i'm sorry set 0.70 basis points the top 70 okay kari now the plugs plug it all yeah we are also hiring we have quite kind of like more like a talent density idea where we don't hire a lot but we try to hire well um and i think like for anyone who is interested in some of our new stuff, like building this agendic product building system for a lot of the leading companies.

1:34:26Karri Saarinen:So this includes working on the agent itself, working on coding agents, coding harnesses, also like different kind of automation systems. So I think there's a lot of like AI and agent related work where you actually get to apply these things into real kind of product, like a user customer problems and it's not just like building a like one tool for um for the model or something so and also we've been profitable the last five years oh and the growth has accelerated quarter after quarter so we're also a very good standing on a business wise so if you want to want to join then we have some open roles on engineering product and design and others so yeah it will be uh it's a profitable company, your venture capitalists right now are banging their heads against the wall.

1:35:14Please start losing money again and grow faster. Yeah, that's always the battle cry. Grow faster, burn more money. We have money. You have the ability to burn it. Kendra, now the plugs. Yeah. So at MBU, we work on building open source agents and making the open agent ecosystem win over closed so that we all have power. Let's go. Let's go. Let's fucking go let's fucking go let's fucking go for the win power to the people yes uh and hiring anybody or where can they try the product if they want to engage it or you know yeah their organization with it so we have released a variety of open source tools in the last three months but uh some of the products that we're building kind of i can give you a sneak peek maybe uh i currently use i I mean, this is internally codenamed minds.

1:36:09But I currently use this kind of like agent UI mix in order to do all of my email, do a lot of my to-dos. I put my to-dos in and ask the agent, hey, can you draft a message to everyone who said X? And it'll do it for me. And so it's a really cool kind of, it will be fully open source. and really cool UI plus way of kind of, you know, I just think that agents, they will allow us to operate computers in a different way and interact with computers in a different way. And we want to build a version of that where all of your data is yours. And where can we download it? Where can we sign up? If you email me at canjun at mb.com, you can get early access.

1:36:55It's currently only in private testing with a bunch of friends at the moment. When do you think it'll be released? When will people be able to sign up for it? Good question. Probably, you know, a month or so. Okay. And are you going to charge for the hosted version? A hundred bucks a month? What is it? The hosted version. So if you run it locally, it's going to be free forever. And the hosted version, we will charge for. Great. We don't know how much yet. As Kari said, pricing, you know, pricing is a tricky thing to figure out. So my best advice is to charge a lot at the beginning so that you challenge people.

1:37:29It was always my advice to founders. Just, you know, make it 500 bucks a month and say, this is like, you know, reasonably unlimited. And you get to be in this discord chat room with the developers and we have room for 500 people and just start there. Everybody starts with the low end and this low end pricing. And it's like, then you have to like retrain people to pay what it's worth. And you get the looky loos. Just start at an absurdly high price and say, it's incredibly, uh, you know, it's like the Amman hotel. Take the Amman Hotel approach to it. Hey, we have a limited number of slots in this beta.

1:38:04It's 100 bucks a month. Just challenge people to do it. That's what Superhuman did. You referenced them before. It was a dollar a day. I was the first investor in that company. And it was a dollar a day for email. And I said, so you want to charge$365 a year for a product that Gmail does for free? They're like, yep. I'm like, who would pay that? I was like, you. I was like, why would I pay for it? They're like, we can save you five hours a week. I was like, if you can save me five hours a year, I'll pay you$365. And can you find five more hours I can get back? Yes. There you go. Luxury software.

1:38:34All right, everybody. Luxury software is the future. All right, everybody. Another amazing episode of This Week in AI. We'll see you all soon. Bye-bye.