Fact-Checking Mark Rober, and the Fall of TechCrunch | E2101

0:00tech wrench just got sold to a group company called regent that dropped out of the sky no one saw that coming like all these things it's probably an seo play i'm guessing it's a fire sale and seo plan they're going to cut two thirds of the writers and uh game over what do you think alex i adversarial uh you can have an opinion no i i i mean i'm this is one of those times that i'm so conflicted it's hard to hard to be clear-headed i mean i love so many people that we like to yeah we this is like this is where you could actually uh you know earn your bones here just let it rip okay i think the people complaining that the media isn't sufficiently nice to tech are a bunch of whiners and they should go sit upon their thrones of gold and stop coveting about people who make one thousandth of their income this week in startups is brought to you by atlassian from mvp to ipo atlassian for startups provides your team the right tools to plan track and collaborate on work head to atlassian.com slash software slash startups to see if you qualify for 50 free seats for 12 months.

1:01Fidelity Private Shares. If you want an all-in-one equity management platform, Fidelity Private Shares has you covered. Visit fidelityprivateshares.com. Mention this podcast for 20 % off your first year subscription. And Lemon.io. Get access to Lemon Hire, a platform with more than 80 ,000 pre-vetted engineers that you can interview within 48 hours. Get$2 ,000 off your first hire at Lemon.io slash hire today. All right, everybody. Welcome back to This Week in Startups. We go live Monday, Wednesday, day and friday typically at noon but uh i gotta get out on that ski mountain with my two daughters it's the end of the season uh looks like we're overcast we might get some flurries uh yesterday was my 30th day i set a goal just when my friend tony shade i you met tony i think maybe i have met tony a couple times yeah yeah yeah it was one of my good friends and um he passed away and uh he was a great guy he was a really good human being he created a company called zappos and for that link exchange.

1:58It's one of the most generous people I've ever met in my life. You remember he had that, he owned a bunch of buildings in downtown Las Vegas that he was going to make into sort of this new tech hub. And when what's trending, when we would go down there to cover CES, he would let us stay there and he took really good care of us. He was a really nice guy. Did you stay at the apartment building he had or did you stay at the, okay. No, he had a nicer place too. We stayed at, yeah, he had like apartment buildings and condos for people who were working on those tech companies around there. And he just let us stay there for, I think for free.

2:25Yeah, he would do that. Again, back to this crazy generosity that Tony Shea had. And people have been asking, why are you so obsessed with trying to hit a certain number of days? You know, he had some sadness in him. You know, he had the depression, I think, and the anxiety. And no amount of money cures that. You know, like, you can become a billionaire, and sometimes it can make it worse. And I just wanted to start the show just talking a little bit about him for a second with Yohan. She got to meet him. I would go to Vegas and, you know, I kind of made my bones already. And, you know, I knew people in Vegas, they would give me free rooms, you know, a very nice hotel sometimes or upgrade me to suites.

3:05And I would go there and I would never stay there because he would invite me to stay in a trailer park with him. And some of my fondest memories in life were going and staying in those trailer parks. And then I would get back from CES stuff or meetings or poker tournaments, whatever it was. and uh it'll be 1 a.m and he would come out of his trailer he's a billionaire he's staying in an airstream and he'd knock on my door i heard you come in i was waiting just in case you came back this is a guy who's a billionaire 1 a.m i come out we'd sit by a fire pit and we talked for two hours it's just incredible yeah and one time in a poker game and i'm going to tell the story in a documentary my friend is playing uh is making if ever comes out um and he uh we're playing it's it's somewhat high stakes but not like millions of dollars but tens of thousands of dollars are on the table and wow you know it's i mean it's high stakes you know trust me for a kid from brooklyn when i'm in a 10 20 30 000 pot my it does make me think for a second i have to actually remember that like that number doesn't impact me now but you know that's the thing about high stakes it's meant to make you consider your behavior because your blood will flow if there's a tesla in the pot or as i tell people win a prius lose a prius i said famously at chermatt's game and that always stuck uh and uh he didn't care about money he wins his pot and he had you know had a couple of pops and it was late you know it's early morning poker game and you know he needed to go to bed and so i'm trying to get him to go to bed um and we have this like final hand and i i had you know uh a full house and somebody else you know has a straight and then he turns over in this thirty thousand dollar pot i kid you not a straight flush uh you know really great hand in poker one of the best and he's like and i'm like okay we're gonna count your money you're going to bed we count his money it's you know he's got over thirty thousand dollars a prius and uh he uh says to me you take spend it you know on your daughters whatever i said no no tony tony you can't take your money just you won the money if i had won it you would pay me and if this person in the hands had won it they would get paid right this is just how the nature of poker is right we we don't feel bad afterwards we all sat down at the table scandalous um and he's insistent and he's had a couple drinks and he's he's not being belligerent but he's being insistent that he will not take the money i'm trying to get him to bed he says i've refused to take this money it's like game is stopped there's 20 there's two tables going there's 20 people in the room now it's becoming a bit of a thing and he says you take he pushes 30 000 to the dealer the dealer looks at me and i do a big sigh and i think um you know these are well-paid dealers these are my dealers yeah yeah these are my dealers they get professional vegas dealers they're they're getting these are the ones who play in home games who can handle certain types of situations that only happen in home games things happen sometimes somebody has a little too much to drink somebody somebody maybe throws cards at a dealer sometimes a you know a situation can happen accusation i mean yeah well this is their career they don't want to risk their whole reputation on one thirty thousand dollar pot like word gets out hey this dealer steals pots you know yeah yeah so this is a yeah but even beyond that there you know anyway just have this moment this will be one of the greatest stories of all time you know how i have my moments like i just and i have one of these moments in my mind where i'm like my timing and i just said uh this is like one of the greatest moments of all time and uh i look at him i look at the dealer now the other dealer for the other tables watching now too because the whole room is stopped and they're both looking at and there's a third dealer to rotate in so we have three dealers so at least you're going to get 10 times each.

7:01And this is 15. Yeah, they're right. They're thinking we're splitting this three ways. And they're also thinking, J. Cal's not going to let him do this. They don't want to make their money that way. You know, guys have too much to drink. Exactly. And I look at him. I look at them. And I said, okay. And the dealers are like, no, no, we can't accept it. And I look at the dealers and I say, it's okay. He can afford it. And he's like, that's right, I can afford it. And he goes to bed. It's a few hundred. I take the dealers. There's a Zappos, you know. I take the dealers. I give them their 10K. Wow.

7:32It's the greatest night of their lives. That's a huge night. That story was told every poker game around the world. Legendary poker story for 15 years. And it gave Tony so much joy because he didn't even remember he did it. He was barely with us. He was drinking, having fun. And that story's been told thousands of times since he passed away. And I just told myself, it was a long story, but I told myself, as we warm up in the audience here. You know, when he passed away, I was talking to some friends about it. You know, he said he always just wanted to have more fun, specifically with you, J-Cal.

8:11He wanted to hang out and have more fun. I just thought to myself, you know what, that's a good operating system. I'm going to try to have a little more joy and a little more fun in my life. Yeah, that's what matters. The one thing I do that inevitably makes me joy of fun is when I do a podcast, especially with you, Lon. I love doing it. We've been together for many years. That's a kind thing to say. and uh you know i'm super excited we're going to spend more time together but at the end of your life all these chip sacks uh you know and other victories and things they don't really get remembered all that much what gets remembered is the funny times you have with your friends exactly and the joy you have and i gotta tell you on this mountain or when i'm in the second my friend laughing it up skiing like i did this year all those moments they just add up to like all this incredible joy in my life so i just set joy goals and the only joy goal i set is just that getting out there on the mountain with my daughters and friends and and then making funny podcasts for you all to listen to maybe learn something during them i feel like at the end of your life you're not going to look back and be like oh if only it was one more deal if only i had made one more big deal one more robin hood one more time one more uber you do those in order to fund and allow for the fun parts the the social parts the parts with family and friends exactly exactly so anyway that's Lest anybody think I'm just like retired and ski all the time.

9:24I just go out for two hours, 40 days a year. It's 80 hours of my life. And I just am trying to hit 41 days. And this will be day 31. Saturday, Sunday will make it day 33. So I'm within seven days of tying my record, eight days of breaking it or so. We'll see if it happens. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Maybe I have to go to New Zealand at some point. It's a goal. You know, you put a goal out there. It's a goal. You know, yeah. All right. If you're shipping a product or rolling out an update, you're building a company, You need to be organized, right? We know that. Atlassian has exactly what you need to streamline your work and smash your goals.

9:56And the Atlassian for Startups program is packed with all the tools you need, like Jira, where you can track every task, sprint, and bug. That's the industry standard. Confluence, another industry standard for team collaboration and documentation. And of course, Loom for quick video explainer creation. Now, Loom is really brilliant. My team started using Loom on their own. They started paying for it on their own. Why? They wanted to get credit on the investment team for communicating to me, the general partner of the firm, why they wanted to invest in a company. So they would do a loom where they recorded over a recording of an interview they did with a founder or visiting their website and going through why they want to invest in a company.

10:38And this was so great for me. I would be skiing in Japan. I would be on a flight to New York to see my parents. And all of a sudden I get a notification from one of my team members. Hey, watch this loom. And I get the link for the loom. I click it and then I can put comments at any time. So it's like doing a conference call, but on my time asynchronously. And I can communicate right there on the video. Also included in Atlassian for startups is Compass, Jira Product Discovery, Bitbucket, so much more, all powered by Atlassian Intelligence. That's their built-in AI. Atlassian software helps companies like Canva, Cloudflare, and Rivian keep growing and keep innovating.

11:14Whether you're brainstorming on sticky notes or scaling to the big leads, Atlassian is here to accelerate your startup's growth. Check out Atlassian for startups where eligible startups get up to 50 seats for free for one full year. That is absurdly generous. Why can they be so generous at Atlassian? Because they're the standard. Atlassian is the standard. And they are generous to startups because they were once a startup. I remember meeting them 20 years ago in Australia. What a great company. Head to Atlassian.com slash startups slash twist for complete details. All right. I wanted to start the show today with you.

11:48And, you know, as we get into a rhythm with you and Alex here, we had a explosive show on Wednesday. A lot of, you know, back and forth. It was a lot of emotions going on. We're going to do a follow up on that story. But I really want to get the show really focused on founder stories. One of the great places we find founders talking is Reddit and sometimes on Hacker News. Yeah. Hacker News. Good discussions. shout out to paul graham for creating that or whoever created it whoever create hacker news great job by the way they never changed it reddit never changed yeah they just focused on the community there's something really special about that as we're designing the new inside app we have to keep that in mind don't change things just make it work and then focus on the community i find hacker news very comforting it hasn't changed in so long you can always go there it's it's it's exactly the same as it ever was and so little of the internet is like that everything changes all the time i find i know paul graham created it one of my friends like Paul Graham created.

12:40I know Paul Graham created it, but he wasn't the one who wrote the code, I don't think. I think there was specifically a person who did it, and I think there's an open source version of it, which is really interesting. There was a time when everybody thought there would be like a thousand hacker news. Anyway, putting it aside, we find really good stories there. Why do we find good stories there? If we ask people for stories, a lot of times when they pitch us a question here for me, those stories are not authentic. They're like packaged from backdoor promotions. It gets a little annoying for me.

13:05But I told Lon, just hang out there see what's going on with the vibes on reddit um we have a this week in startups one where people are talking about stuff entrepreneurs startups there's a bunch of different places people talking about business so that's a lot to surprise me with conversations there and then we i want him to round trip them well let's go with our first uh question you found on one of these yeah we'll go find the hard ones let's work backwards from heart yeah i'm trying to find questions where there's like multi-stages or it's a little specific or something that you can really speak to.

13:34There's a lot of general questions and I skipped them. Question one, let's start with question one, Court. This is a technical founder. They say they're in need of a reality check. This comes from user James Calhoun 2 in Reddit's startups community. I'll summarize. They are a technical founder. They built 100 % of their company's product on their own. It was not their idea. They have a co-founder slash CEO. It was that person's idea. They then built it entirely themselves. Now, this CTO says he was promised equity by the non-technical founders. But now that the product is built, the plans keep shifting and changing.

14:12And he finds that he's being offered a lot less equity than his other partners who did not build the project. They're also now telling him that he's, quote, not founder material, and he needs to, quote, acknowledge the CEO's leadership. One more factoid. He claims that he still owns the IP rights of the code base as leverage. So what should he do? And I think the even bigger question for you is what could founders do to avoid ever having this problem down the road? Sure. So before you start any project, you should document the arrangement. If you are the idea person, the business person with the idea, you're going to want to give what's called a work for hire contract to anybody who works for you.

15:00And you pay them a salary in exchange for that. So I own This Week in Startups. Lon is an employee of mine, well-paid, well-trusted, and adored employee. He has signed an IP assignment when he comes to workers. Same with Alex. And they sign this thing that says, hey, you don't own this week of startups. Jcal does. Now, they don't expect to own it, et cetera. But if the three of us got together on a weekend and I said, hey, let's do a pod. It's going to be called three dudes talk about, you know, movies. You would probably want to say, here's the arrangement. I came up with the name of the show.

15:34I came up with the IP and everybody works for me. I know this because this is what happened with All In. I ran All In out of my company here. two years into it, it went from being like a J-Cal production where it was one of my employees doing it. I paid for everything. They showed up to becoming a company. We formalized it. It was a little bit of a negotiation. We had a little hand wringing and it's always uncomfortable. Whose value is more, et cetera. We wound up in the all-in situation just saying, hey, there's four of us. I just said to everybody, listen, if everybody shows up every week, four people will do 25 % each.

16:10If you want me to be the CEO of it, I'll take a little more equity. They didn't. They wanted to hire a CEO. I was like, that's fine. And you know what? Worked out great. There's a CEO. Company makes a ton of money. All I have to do is show up and do that. If we had done it earlier, it would have been less negotiation and time consuming. So you always want to do that in advance. In this case, the mistake the CEO of this company made, apparently, is if he didn't pay this person, then that person does own the idea. He does own what he created. And it was created on his laptop. Now, if you're creating on my laptop that Launch gave you and you signed an IP assignment, then when it went to a judge or whatever, if it ever got there, which it never would, your lawyer wouldn't take the case.

16:51They'd be like, you don't have a case here, kid. You got paid a salary, signed an IP assignment, case closed. So they did this wrong. Now they have to have a hard conversation. These guys are insulting him. They don't value him. He's going to have to establish his value with them. And the way he's going to have to establish his value is by having an attorney, giving the attorney a thousand dollar retainer and paying them four or five hundred bucks an hour. And it might get up to 10 hours and this is going to be messy. And that attorney has to say, listen, my client, you know, and that's going to probably make the whole relationship toxic, right?

17:24Because now they're they've got to get an attorney. So if all of them watch this and they understand that this whole situation is going to implode because nobody wants to spend and do a legal battle over this is probably not that much at stake. I think what the folks who are running the company have to determine is, is this person, do they actually mean what they're saying when they say he's not founder material? Because apparently he is, because they picked him. That's like picking a spouse, Lon, and being like, you're not really a great husband material. It's like, but you picked me. So what are we talking about here?

17:55What does it say about you? Are you also partner material? If you pick me and then you're deriding me as not founder, you ever meet that couple at a dinner party? Yes. Who hate each other and you're like, why'd you pick each other? Why are you still together? You're both opting into this. So I think what they have to do is sit down and he has to just say, listen, I want to be a co-founder. I have a lot. You may not think I do, but you picked me. And so I want to be an equal co-founder. And I want to build with you for five years. And the way we do that is we put ourselves on a five-year vest. If anybody has to leave, it gets advanced one year, let's say.

18:32So, you know, if the two of them gang up on a farm day one, he gets a plus a year, right? So that stings a little bit. So they have to decide, oh my God, if we're each getting 33%, divide that by, let's say four. And it's typically a four-year vest, but I like the five-year vest for co-founders. That's 8%. They got to just give him 8 % of the company, plus whatever he earned already. Maybe they've been doing this for a year. He has 16 % of the company. It's like, it kind of stings, right? And it's supposed to sting. It's supposed to sting because there's something at value here. and there's a long line of people who left youtube snapchat early and they got equity chunks for you know the other parties might say not doing anything but in reality they did do something they did obviously contribute so he's going to just have to be prepared emotionally to not continue on with them this would be my advice to them if they were like my sibling i tell them you want to be equal founders or nothing or i need to have this percentage whatever the percentage you think you deserve it.

19:26I want 25%. You two can split 75%. I agree. I'm not like a CEO. I'm a CTO. That's what I think is fair. If you guys want to pay me 25%, great. I want to get paid 80 % of whatever dollars you get paid. I want to get 80 % of whatever equity you have. I agree. You have more experience. I think I'm 80 % as good as you guys. And that's going to be my contribution over four years. Take it or leave it. If not, you can buy this code base for me, or I'm going to go do my own thing because we don't have an agreement. That's it. And he's got to be hardcore and believe what he's saying. And he's got to emotionally be ready to lead.

20:01I think that's the thing is, yeah, it's probably a little bit emotional. He built this thing. He doesn't want to leave it by, but that's the only way to make the deal is be ready to walk away. This advertisement is paid by Fidelity Private Shares. All right, founders, we all know, cap tables, due diligence, and of course, managing investors is a huge headache. But there's a very simple solution for you. Today, we're talking with Kristen Kraft, an old friend of mine, and she works at Fidelity Private Shares, a new group over at Fidelity. You've heard of Fidelity before, and they have a mission to help startups simplify equity management.

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21:45once again fidelityprivateshares.com and tell them that you heard about it here on this week in startups uh great great fine there and um if the person wants to email me anytime i'm happy to yeah i'm gonna go leave this as a comment on there once the video goes up and i'll let them know one more question uh this one comes from i found a new subreddit that i really like founders hub it's a just community of founders uh knocking ideas around joining each other's companies a really nice little reddit community maybe our first caller should join that community maybe they should they definitely should uh so this one comes from a big brainy is the user's name on reddit they are building a tracker for founders who are building their startups publicly so the idea is you're you can track your progress and failures you turn the process of building your product into early marketing for your company yes and you're getting real-time feedback from potential users while you're still in building mode.

22:42The system even nudges founders to log their growth, track what they're working on, and release new updates once every 15 days. So my question is to you, are you interested in this? Do you think this is a useful tool? And what are the pluses, negatives of building your product in public rather than stealth? If you build your product in public, it's obviously giving intelligence over to potential competitors. The truth is, potential competitors are going to watch you like a hawk anyway, in this build in public movement, you will get great ideas. You will get new employees and you will get new customers.

23:17You will also educate people on what your plans are. So be thoughtful in how you do it. It's one thing to be like, hey, here's the new version coming and we have three features. What order do you want to see us release these features? Or, hey, here's what I built. I was vibe coding. Pull up Fresh, who used to work for me, his Twitter handle, and you will see him vibe coding this weekend he was making some sort of like a 1990s retro you know health app and he builds in public and he's you know he worked for me for like seven years great great great employee uh and team member here but he wanted to go be an entrepreneur so i let him go do that and i actually backed it so he's doing this sun seek it helps you improve uh he's building apps to help you uh be healthier whole plunge app sun seek getting sun and you know he puts some he's into apple watches and all that stuff and if you scroll down you'll just see in his feed uh if you scroll down him building like different pieces of software and showing it so he was vibe coding this week and he was bringing this like he made a uh a mac retro runner app right yeah and so now what has he done with this and i'm not sure what this app was called um looks like retro run yeah so you know it's like it literally is using the original mac os look and feel to you know make a running app like run keeper or strava i guess track your track your runs and your roots and whatever i think that's what it's doing yeah so now like let's say like this is actually a killer idea people can go steal the idea oh maybe people want to have that retro i'll add it to airbnb we'll have a retro thing and you can switch your interface to retro uh if you like um so you know but how many views and how many replies and how many followers did he get on that tweet let's let's take a look at it here um you know most people get like when i see people like dunking on me and quote retweeting me i look at how many views they have they have 10 and i'm like i bet you six of them so now he's got 281 people who saw this and he got one reply he got two likes so this one didn't break out for him yet no but if you look at some of his other posts like his pin tweet or whatever he might have thousands of people doing that and then there's like some building public um communities where they kind of help each other so i think it's great um i wouldn't ever share things that are really great growth hacks on it i wouldn't share like really important news on it some people are too filled in public um and uh but for other people it gets them a ton of advice we had another company i think it was jenny ai you can pull up jenny ai um and they were literally releasing their revenue and now they're sort of making millions of dollars so people were like really tracking Jenny with a J AI.

25:55Yeah, I found it, Jenny AI. Yeah. And if you look at the founder, you know, he was literally sharing and some of these folks take it real serious. They share their revenue. They have a bad quarter. They're sharing their bad quarter. I mean, I prefer this to not having product velocity. I think this lights a fire under people on your team and it makes it exciting for certain people who feed off the energy of a crowd. Great. So this is like being a comedian who writes a series at home and never talks to anybody as introverted versus somebody who goes and, you know, does stand up or host a live talk show or something, you know, like some people feed off the energy of the crowd.

26:33Some people like to work quietly in the laboratory. Viva la difference. All that matters is you're building a great product. You're obsessed about product, team, product, customer, team, product, customer. You have to be obsessed with those three things. This helps your product get better. It helps you build a team and it finds your customers fast so under my rubric of three things matter and startups team product customer uh and if you're focusing on anything other than those three you got to ask yourself like why am i focused on this right now you know like accounting or legal like yeah sometimes you have to do chores but you really got to get back to the big three and also anybody wants to ask a question that gets on the show you can post it on reddit or hacker news but you could also send it to me on twitter at uh twi i'm sorry at twi startups you could also send it to us post it on our reddit we'll find it if you send it to us are open right on the yeah yeah feel free reach out ask us questions all right what's in the news line let's get to some news stories here we got a little plug in there for founder university do you want to we could bring in alex and talk about i know he was working on the docket let's get in the news here and i'm sure we can end up the first hey alex how we doing there he is hey i am doing fantastically i uh it's weird to sit backstage because i'm always like oh i want to jump in and then i'm like dude you no one can hear you shut up so it doesn't matter this is like the fun of it well well we our cup runneth over now and we have plenty of uh we keep adding resources to the show to make the show better and some of these stories are complex we did a complex story monday and wednesday which is a youtuber who set up a series of experiments.

28:06It's quite controversial. Maybe you could catch us up on Mark Rober, Rober, Mark Rober, NASA scientist, former, former NASA scientist with an incredible YouTube channel where he runs experiments. This one, this experiment might have blown up in his lap and people are replicating it. We'll see. Let's see where we're at. Yes, absolutely. People are replicating it and people with much smaller accounts. So today we're going to talk about a guy named Kyle Paul. He runs a YouTube channel. It has a grand total of 2009 subscribers. Shout out Kyle for having to start. He's had a couple of videos out, Jason.

28:41They mostly do 5 ,000, 6 ,000 views. And then most recently he replicated part of the Mark Rober Tesla test. He didn't do the fog. He didn't do the water. What he did was the Looney Tunes wall to see what he could get from the tests. So this video did 145 ,000 views in less than 20 hours. people are definitely talking about it and it goes through and answers some of the questions people had about the original video. So in this case, he runs a Model Y with full self-driving and we're going to show that clip in a second. And then later on, Jason, he also breaks out a cyber truck, which has the newer self-driving hardware in it.

29:14I believe it's a version four and we'll take a look at that, but let's start with a video of a Model Y. And this is a 2022 and 22 Model Y with hardware 3, and FSD turned on, going towards a Looney Tunes wall that Kyle Paul, this YouTuber, put together. And to be clear, this is, in the Mark video, Robler? Robler. R-O-B-E-R. Robler. Mark Robler's video, he used autopilot, a different technology than FSD. That was the original sin, I think, of the video. Here, we're correcting the original sin and using FSD, full self-driving, which uses um you know different pieces of the technology let's see what happens does he run into the looney tunes wall which is a wall that perfectly replicates what's behind it to try to trick cameras and as i said humans would be tricked by this in some cases too uh if they're not paying attention but let's see what happens i'm interested to see all right here is one of the takes not touching the wheel vehicle doesn't want to go much faster than 30 one currently does not see the wall does not see the wall does not see the wall and he breaks okay he breaks and people did say why didn't you just go through it it turns out there's I think a U-Haul on the other side so if he went through it it would be a collision just to be clear he ran this test with the Model Y Jason I think three separate times he had to apply the brakes manually each time so I think that goes to show that for the 2022 using fsd and hardware 3 it will not catch this particular uh scenario if it ever comes up in your life but i'm curious jason your take on the quality of the experimenter it looks like a pretty good experiment because if that was a human being who was paying partial attention there is a chance one out of 50 one out of 100 would go through the wall if they were you know, applying their lipstick, changing the radio station, putting in navigation, you know, advancing their podcast, whatever it is.

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32:03They're only going to offer you handpicked developers with at least three years of experience. And if something goes wrong, Lemon.io will find you a replacement developer ASAP. A bunch of launch founders have worked with Lemon.io and they have told me they've had a great experience. So here's your call to action. Go to Lemon.io slash twist and find your perfect developer or an entire tech team in 48 hours or less. And twist listeners get 15 % off the first four weeks. So stop burning money. Hire developers smarter. Visit lemon.io slash twist. I do think that this test, a certain percentage of humans would fail and FSD on hardware three, which is what I have, is a distinctly different experience than hardware four.

32:48Yes. So much so that I believe in the last, I know in the last Tesla call and somebody can fact check me if I'm if I'm wrong here, Elon said he was probably going to have to upgrade hardware three to hardware four. Yep. And they were going to do that for free if FSD couldn't do stuff. And they had hinted at that the call before it. And then I have I can remember him sort of casually mentioning that. And I remember people at Tesla talking about there's a big jump in the hardware between three and four. I think that it's pretty clear. I'm going to go ahead and guess hardware four gets it right. hardware three doesn't let's take a look all right so next up here we have a cybertruck so a much more recent vehicle than 2022 running hardware for running fsd and uh two quick notes for folks out there who want to get into the nitty-gritty here uh kyle actually did have the cameraman zoom in to show the actual version number of fsd so you can get down to the absolute release date if you want anyways here is the cybertruck running the same test a little bit later in the day and we'll go back to that in just a second all right we are in a cyber truck full self-driving computer four full self-driving version 13.2.8 we have full self-driving turned on ready go

34:06that sounds like a slowdown to me it's making that millennium falcon light slowdown sound yep and that's a stop yep so i think that that shows that at least a little bit later in the day the tesla cybertruck did a great job stopped early stopped very calmly didn't slam on the brakes the last minute some people have said and we are in the business here of kind of poking holes at things that it was so much later in the day that the actual outline of the image on the wall might be more visible that said i would have more stock in that if it had been more of a chaotic stop but given how confident the cyber truck was i do think that if you are in a cyber truck you will not go through a looney tunes wall while using fsd it's a meaningless test this will never happen in the real world it's super entertaining for us and the overall picture here alan is that the looney tunes test is the stupidest test but the most but the most entertaining and so um i i I think we're entering the phase of self-driving and autonomy where we're coming up with insane tests because having it stay in the lane and having it stop before a bicycle goes across it, we know it's going to do that 100 % of the time.