Hacking Meta's AR glasses, a shakeup at Initialized, and the best startups of the decade | E2021

32:10And so initialized, Jason, in a blog post from Brett that when initialized started out, we were small and scrappy, comma, comma, comma. Over time, we found success and grew, but we lost a step. Time to get back to basics. Restructuring our team, smaller team. This feels like an echo we've heard from the smallest companies all the way up to Amazon and back down again, Jason. Yeah. Yeah. I think what happens in a firm, and that firm has had both of its founders leave, Alexis left. I think him and Gary had some sort of falling out. I don't know the details of it, but there was some sort of falling out, as partners do.

32:43Sometimes people get divorced, no big deal. Just take care of the kids. In this case, that'd be the LPs and the startups. Gary ran it. Then Gary left to go take a bigger opportunity, Y Combinator, a little bit controversial, I guess, to leave initialized to go do that. But it seemed like they had some nice talent and a deep bench there, but we do have a situation where the venture game is changing. There is a cataclysmic creative destruction occurring because of the lack of distributions and because of Zerp and the overhang of all of these very large rounds. So we have so many unicorns in the Twist 500.

33:20We're over 100 companies now in our twist500.com listing of the top 500 private companies and so you know if it's not working sometimes you have to shake things up sometimes shaking things up means changing uh you know key players and maybe players who got you there so my knicks uh as you all know i'm like diehard knick fans we have a player named julius randall who kind of led the resurgence in new york when kevin durant uh wouldn't come to new york with kyrie irving they went to the nets and we got this weird consolation prize, a player named Julius Randall, who then created a winning culture in New York.

33:56And we just traded him for Carl Anthony Towns, who is a much better, more decorated all-star player who fits better with the team. The whole Knicks community for the past week, including myself, have been doing call-in shows and trying to reconcile that the team got better objectively, massively better, while saying goodbye to two players who we love. And I think that's probably what's happening here. You know, some changes have to be made to make the company work better, to make the firm work better. And hopefully we can have Brett on the pod. I invited him to come on Wednesday. Hopefully he's around and we can get Brett to come on the pod and talk about it because this is probably a mature, thoughtful decision, but people lose their jobs or people get traded.

34:40They go to other firms and, you know, that's just the nature of it. And one of the most important things to understand as an entrepreneur or somebody leading a firm is sometimes change is the right decision and it doesn't necessarily matter what change you're making. I know this sounds like very strange because when you're a worker bee working for a company, you see change and you're trying to figure out how, why did they decide to make this change? Why did they go, you know, from remote to back to the office? Why did they go from, you know, seven departments to four or from three layers of management to two?

35:14And what happens is sometimes just shaking things up and changing the organizational structure allows you to build a better product. And it's like some people might call it change for change stakes or people just screwing with the system. But almost overwhelmingly, when somebody leaves a company, even somebody great, you get a better person. It's a very weird phenomenon because you're like, wait a second, that person was amazing in that position. Then that person goes on to do better things. And you're like, wait a second, that person is doing something better. And the firm did something better.

35:46How is that possible? It's a very simple, very simple equation. The firm learned so much from that person. Let's call the person John. John did a great job. The firm leveled up. And then you get some fresh eyes on it with Jane. Jane comes to the firm. And the firm became better at hiring because John did such a good job setting up the foundation that Jane was able to build on it. And John went on to another Avenger, recharged his battery, took those lessons, and did something better with their career. And so when I see these changes being a weathered vet of the Clone Wars, I'm like, yep, I get it.

36:22But I understand how other people see these things, you know, a journalist, a rank-and-file employee, another company, whoever it is. And they're like looking at the tea leaves saying, what is it? But what's your take? Yeah. Well, I really appreciate the talk about change because if you just say, make some changes, change for change's sake, people get very, very defensive. Like, oh, you know, why would you do that? That's a little bit aggressive. What if you change the wrong thing? The flip side is a team that's been in place long enough doing the same kind of work will eventually form patterns that become so ossified they can't really adapt or change.

36:55And I've worked at several companies that I've had pretty long histories. And so I've seen this in action and sometimes you need calcification just break something and then everyone will run around with their hair on fire and then you'll probably find four or five other things that weren't super efficient when you do that great if you can be targeted but if you can't find anything grab a pipe wrench it out you'll figure out where everything's broken and so i do like that in the case of initialized though jason uh last two funds uh both raised december of 2021 530 million the main fund 170 for the opportunity fund no new form d filings that i can find said they made 14 investments this year.

37:32Doesn't sound like they're out of cash. It's my read. 14 investments on average, a Series A firm like that, seed to Series A firm, you put it at four or five million per, they've deployed 75 of the 500. The 170, no way to know because you would deploy that opportunity fund in a very unique opportunity. This fund had, their previous fund had Coinbase in it. Coinbase, at the level they did it, was a career-making investment in the way uber robin hood were for me that was one of the great investments of all time of the last cycle there's only been maybe two or three companies in the last cycle that had extraordinary returns uber airbnb coinbase think are the three that when lps look at them stripe would be another but that hasn't been liquefied yet but stripe would be up there as well basically anything 50 100 billion yeah would be it and if you were to look at that entire cohort one of them's worth 150 billion happens to be the one i was the third investor in that's why this firm did so well when you have that behind you some big bets like that yeah it really does give you momentum and i think that's why alex was alexis was able to do his own firm sorry and i think that's probably why y combinator uh hired gary tan um is because he's a good picker yeah but i think the lps and initialized now have to think okay what we have to re-evaluate this firm from first principles again i wonder if that's why they did this now because it has been a couple of years not a odd time for them to be out fundraising if they are i don't know but let's say you want to go out there maybe your last fund isn't showing as much juice as you want shake up the partner list maybe lower the overall burn at the company cut half a point off your fees for per I can see some action there leading to a new fundraise.

39:21And if you're going to change the chapter, rip the whole last one out and throw it. Don't do it half measures. And this seems to be a pretty top-to-bottom cleanup. Yeah. After we talked about CRV giving money back, somebody pointed out last year that Founders Fund had given back half their very large billion-dollar fund. Ah, yes. And I remember talking to Brian Singer about that. Brian Singerman, sorry. And he, you know, I think it's a very mature thing after Zerp to realize these companies don't need as much money. We're not up against Masayoshi-san and SoftBank. We're not up against the Tigers and whoever coming in and dumping these large rounds, not taking board seats.

40:01So what is the setup here? I believe these will be the next two vintages of, you know, if you consider a vintage three to four-year investment period, I think we might have three world-class vintages coming up. One we're in, and we're right in the middle of it. And then the next two could be some of the greatest vintages of our lifetime. Okay. That's a really great way to bridge into what we're talking about next, because there was a fascinating article in the Financial Times. I have been critical, Jason, of unicorns, and there have been too many of them, and then raising too much money. But one thing I've never really doubted is that there are some really amazing companies in the current unicorn crop and we're going to see some great outcomes.

40:41So I sound negative occasionally, but I'm actually not. The FT, though, pointed out that according to Bain and Company's scale insurgent demarcation, which is$10 billion in annual revenue and$1 billion in operating cash flow, only two companies, they say, in the last 20 years have been built that meet that threshold, and they are Meta and Uber. Now, I, one, am fascinated by that as a threshold for having quote, quote, made it. I want to get your take on that. But also, I think the list is too small. First of all, scale insurgent, 10 billion in revenue, billion in operating cash flow. How important do you think those metrics are for deciding the true winners?

41:17Yeah, there's this expression that, you know, the markets are a voting system and then they're a scale. And you know, because you're obsessed with S1s, you did a great job on an S1 in cautious optimism today. Thank you, Justin. I appreciate it. And the bogey, you know, like what you need to hit to IPO, I've been told is a billion in revenue now. Now we're starting to see some people with less, you know, tee up, but that's what I was told. A lot of banks are telling founders. It's not true, but that is what they're looking for. But to have an enduring company, I do think that those are two interesting numbers to look at because you do have to hit a certain amount of cash flow to be a real business.

41:58You cannot be a money losing business forever. Amazon learned this. At some point, Amazon had to stop the break-even train. People gave them runway for a decade or more when they saw that nice top-line growth, but eventually they needed to say, we're going to have some cash build up here. And Tesla as well. Tesla was invest, invest, invest. And then all of a sudden, the J-curve turned around and I don't know if they have 30 or$40 billion in the bank, man. It's a lot. It's a lot. And so the J-curve can be violent in both directions. And Uber and Tesla would be probably the two best examples I can think of.

42:33Oh, yeah. Because Uber's cash burn for years was astronomical. And then Dara took over and some changes were made operationally. Things got a little bit less cash consumptive. And now it just kicks off cash. And the thing is, you mentioned Amazon, you mentioned Tesla. Those are companies that the same analysis put in the 1990 to 2003 bucket. And it said six companies met those requirements that came out of that era. Okay, I can tell you them. Okay, Google is in that. Yep. Google's in it. NVIDIA was probably launched around that time or slightly after. I don't know their founding date. Ah. Well, we know.

43:1393, so yes. Is Salesforce in that group? Do they have a billion dollars in trailing cash flow? I'd have to check their metrics. I would think so, yeah. Money printing companies, companies that are just compounding. are they all tech companies or are there non-techs in that list i believe this is an all tech list all tech list all tech list uh okay so apple was already formed microsoft was already formed apple was already formed um you can't count the youtube because like above my google may have google on the list already meta came after that that was 2004 founding i believe tesla was 2001 or two founding i guess uh okay so salesforce would by the way fit it's uh it did 900 million in operating cashflow last quarter and 9.3 billion in revenue.

43:56Okay, there you go. Oh, did they not mention the names? Because I'm just rattling them off. They mentioned just Tesla, Amazon, and Alphabet. So you and I are hunting and packing. But the thing that's more interesting, Jason, is they said there's only two in the last 20 years, Meta and Uber. And I don't think that's true. I did a little digging for us. Airbnb founded 2008. So more recently - Just became profitable. Yeah. They got to be getting close to a billion in cash. They have a billion in trailing free cashflow. And in the last quarter, they 2.75 billion revenue putting them above a 10 billion dollar yearly run rate so looks like ft made a little mistake poo and alex fact checked you so somebody send this clip to the fb editors oh i'm not done strike so founded 2010 processed over 10 uh a trillion dollars last year three percent cut that's 30 billion gross revenue and the company said it was robustly cash flow positive in 2023.

44:46Sounds pretty close to me. Yeah. Coinbase, not profitable. I see Coinbase is the only one that I didn't think of when I was prepping for this show. I will find out for us live because I know where the earnings are. This is why Alex is amazing. He just can just get this answer for me. Because the thing with Coinbase is they get these incredible custodial fees and there's a lot of corporate people who park their Bitcoin there and have them manage it for them. Like this is corporate thing. And I think they get paid a small percentage of just as a custodial fee which i think is just all margin for them i think that's all profitable i gotta think that's throwing a ton of money to the bottom line yeah so their revenue is north of a billion um per quarter as of you know q1 q2 this year and they're not 10 yet yeah no no so i think they're gonna miss on this on the scale side but then if you look at their free cash flow for the last six months it was um 895.7 million sorry net cash operating activities last six months so profitable enough not big enough but there's the shopify i think also meets meets the standards i should meet this i think this is too harsh on the last couple generations of tech companies there are more big names than people give um wait why am i gassing you up so much no i like it i was about to say like theses deserve more credit and that almost came out of my mouth i mean here's the thing the entrepreneurs deserve the credit uh the vcs and the capital structure and the lps deserve the credit for taking the risk but what it does prove is the power law and i think getting back to our discussion of where the industry is i think we are at the turning point right now because private equity is coming in and trying to buy positions and then i invited you to sit in our investment team room since you're launch an employee technically.

46:32And you get to see some of the investment stuff we're doing under our NDA and confidentiality agreements. We had somebody offer to buy one of our positions in our first fund at some discount to the last round, which was only 20%. Now, most of the discounts I've been seeing have been in the 50%, 75%, just bottom feeders. And of course, we don't even respond to those secondary ones but this one which one of my associates uh researchers you know told me about this weekend on sunday and today's monday and i said hey that would be if we sold our position in this fund that would return 1.5x the fund we really believe in this company but that funds are already at 1.2x i think 1.1x so we add 1.5 to it now we've got a 2.6 or 7x fund with still some holdings in it, maybe this is something we should consider for our LPs.

47:29Would be great to get that firm to, you know, DPI actually returned, not on paper, because that one on paper was kind of right around 4.95X. So my job is to get those two numbers to, you know, meet as best I can. And so I haven't had to think about an exit for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm questioning from the fund management perspective, do you go to your LPs and say, hey guys, listen, we got this offer. I don't think we should take it. Let's say it's a 25 % discount to put a random number on it. Let's say discount, but you're like, I think we should hold, I could return all your money plus.

48:05Do you do that or do you just make the decision yourself? That's literally a major part of the job. The reason the LPs hire you is to make those decisions so they don't have to got they're looking at cash in cash out right now in that fund cash in a dollar you're at a buck and buck 20 now you're cashing for a dollar is at two 250 260 feeling pretty good now do we hold on to try to get you back to to have this investment double again and now you know give you 350 or four dollars and that's where greed you know and discipline, you know, become the factors that they're hoping that my carry helps me to make a good decision.

48:52And this is where the understanding of psychology of your general partners is important because some general partners, maybe they need the liquidity, maybe the 20 % on that. Let's just, you know, say, let's just say it was a, I'm going to just pick a random number sure 10 million dollars sure so if they have 25 carry they say okay we're above the threshold i get 2.5 million do i want 2.5 million dollars this year the five partners want 500k each or three partners want 750 each whatever it is and then the rest of the team gets to chop up a you know a couple hundred grand uh for their for their troubles maybe um or if the person's like i've already got 100 million or 200 million dollars sitting over here yeah 500k doesn't do anything for me let's go for the gold i'd rather you know how you know and and so the this is why boards can become complex because you need to have the individual's net worth and how much this matters to them just like when zuckerberg got an offer for a billion dollars from yahoo peter till said don't take it zuckerberg's like well i don't have any money my dad is his dad a dentist or a doctor or something if i remember correctly yeah yeah he's i think he's a general practitioner or something a dentist orthodontist i can't remember so you know got a son of a middle class, upper middle class, you know, person, you know, who went to Harvard and, you know, he owns 70 % of the company is going to get$700 million to not take it, but he's now worth 200 million.

50:17So he literally held on and became worth 250 times that offer. And this is the really hard thing. So, you know, looking at this situation, perhaps the best thing for us to do is sell half our position or a third of our position and then, you know, let the rest and just RLP has got a nice little check. Oh yeah, now we're at 1.7, you know, consistently drip, drip, drip. And this is why, you know, we have to get the single and double M &A world going because maybe in the same situation, instead of a secondary offer coming in at 20 % discount, we would have a proper offer from, you know, Salesforce or some giant software company who wants to buy another software company say, you know what, I'll give you, you know, three times what you paid in the last round.

50:59I'm really curious now about the connection between exit timings and total DPI returns based on GP or venture partners net worth. because I'd be curious to know if holding periods are simply longer if they're wealthier. And the other version of this is a realtor data. In the old data sets that I saw, realtors that were listing their own house left on the market longer to get a higher offer than they did for their customers because they were getting a hundred percent of the gains when they held onto their own house, but only a fraction of a fraction if they held your house longer for a higher price.

51:37So incentives matter. Yeah. Show me an incentive. I'll show you an outcome. And And the reason they do that is because they know it only takes one buyer. Yeah. Only takes one buyer. And this is something for entrepreneurs to know as well. You know, think of a sale that was like an extraordinary sale, WhatsApp,$20 billion to Facebook. It only took one frisky entrepreneur, Zuckerberg, a bold entrepreneur, to do something crazy like that. And he told his board, I bought WhatsApp. He just told them, I bought WhatsApp. I just went for a walk with Jan and I bought it. That's, you know, baller. And, you know, if it was Microsoft, let's say, or if it was, you know, I don't know, Apple under Tim Cook, there would have to be a very long board conversation, you know, like Iger trying to buy Twitter at Disney, you know, which eventually he didn't do.

52:31That was like a year or two of conversations. Should we buy Twitter? Really interesting. You know, founder mode's great because it gives one person the steering wheel. The other part of founder mode is that if you give the wrong person the steering wheel, you may end up towards a cliff. But going back to our point about change and about how things get ossified, the thing that I actually have liked about the idea of founder mode is the ability to go, I know that's how we have been doing things, but what if we just didn't? And that is the hardest, I think, muscle for our company to maintain. And I think that's why we're seeing companies from small to large try to retool themselves so they can actually move again.

53:04now uh before we sign off for today twist 500 we have a couple of new members that i want to throw on one is the company you brought up which is snick s-n-y-k it's not saying it's snick and it is a cyber security company and it fits under a couple of things we've been talking about one sovereign seat at the table i think they raised some money from an overseas uh sovereign wealth fund and i do want to put together a cyber security theme for us i haven't gotten the name down but i think this fits underneath that uh what's really fun about this company is because of some of where it's based and so forth we actually got its information and i think it shows a very interesting picture of how some of the things we've been talking about on the show can yield better financial results so jason i'm gonna bore you with a um an income statement here and pronounce the name of the company because the spelling's crazy snick snick s-n-y-k so the y is an i snick and no c if it's not snick i will buy someone at the company lunch for butchering their branding all over the show but i don't know how else you pronounce that sure um and uh this is a cyber security company um and we're looking here at their pnl here their financial statements looks like turnover fancy word for revenue in thousands of dollars for the year ended December 31st, 2023.

54:25So they're on a calendar year, $220 million up from$147 million the year before. Yep. Just over 50 % revenue growth if memory serves. And that is a number that I think we should hold on to because if you look at the company's administrative expenses, which in the US we would call operating costs, the company spent less money this year than it did last year. This goes back to our theme about static team size and in general, getting more out of people. And so Jason, 50 % growth, more or less a reduction in costs, a dramatic curtailment in their losses. This company looks like it is going to be in reasonable shape to go public.

55:04And it did, I think, begin to work on its perspectives earlier this year. Now, the other thing - So we're seeing the J curve to just do a callback. The J curve, hey, you're investing, you're losing money. The total losses in this business keep increasing, but then the losses are slowing down because because the revenue is increasing. So here, they dropped their spend in administrative expenses, we're gonna think that's like where the headcount is 10 % while growing 50%. This is like a good recipe for lowering the loss, and then eventually becoming a money printing machine. If they do this again, if they grew 50 % and cut costs another 10 % static team size, they would be right there, right?

55:45Yeah, absolutely. The thing though, that I'll say is looking at this, I think it just goes to show how much work some companies needed to do to shift from the ZERP mindset into now kind of what we expect from companies that do want to list. Because the company had in 2022, 147 million in revenue and their loss for the year was like$267 million. That means they were spending over 400 against 147. That's a pretty - They were losing$20 million a month. They were losing$5 million dollars a week. So let that sink in. That's nearly a million dollars a day. Yeah, that would be right. Million dollars per business day.

56:21Yeah. I mean, there's 365 days in a year, 267 million in losses. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's down to just$500 ,000 a day. But the point is their revenue is scaling faster. So this is a company in transition looking to list. And that's why I think it's a good twist 500 entry, lots of venture capital, multi-billion dollar valuation. So I'll put it on the list. Awesome. And then I got one more really quick before we we go um the company called nim n-y-n-m sorry and this company the moment i heard about it uh during the production meeting today i was all in because it's doing automated medical coding and if you have a spouse that works in the healthcare space you know how big of a market this is jason also a company called epic does medical systems they're huge tons of spend here however you heard about this and you went boring so i'm very curious why this company which i think rules didn't uh didn't I mean, this is one of the great things about entrepreneurship.

57:15I will meet founders sometimes, and they're building something that would make me wake up every morning and want to commit seppuku. I literally met a founder yesterday when I was at Austin City Limits, thanks to my friend Josh from Capital Factory for inviting me. My daughter had a great time, my wife had a great time. Got to see Chapel Rhone, and it was the largest, large audience for Austin City Limits in history. There were like close to a hundred thousand people listening to pink pony club. It was epic. And the interesting thing about it, I got a little inside information is that they had booked her last year before she broke out.

57:51Oh, no way. So they had booked her at, I don't want to be more exact here. Cause I got some, what I think is inside information. It could be secondhand, but I think they booked her at like maybe one seventh of her current price, but she honored that contract. so they call this uh like planting seeds or something like that they they make these bets it's almost like being an investor so you know they will make people the offers a year out and then some number of them you know pop out and and become you know really giant acts and i was talking to guys i said well why do you think that happens it's like yeah you know we don't really exactly know but you know it's like you know it just happens always happens in music and i said do you want to know what happened he's like hit me and i was like tiktok i was like chaparron is the queen of tiktok and tiktok with their algorithm it doesn't have to spread like youtube does where people subscribe and views and thumbs up and comments feed the algorithm and you know you you hear from a friend about mr beast or you know whatever tiktok you do nobody goes to their subscribe page on tiktok it's the for you feed so the for you feed the algorithm has i think accelerated pop stars ascension and the person said oh my god that's exactly right because you know just like six months ago she was and i don't know if any of this is true so like people speculating around a table um after a couple cocktails in the vip lounge at uh austin city limits but they were it was very interesting on a technological basis because and an arbitrage basis She had dates she had set with very small venues, like 600 people, a thousand people.

59:32You can cancel those. She has canceled some shows recently. So I think either she's upgrading or moving those shows over to larger theaters, larger venues. And they said, you know, what they did do for Chaperone at this event was she was on like a secondary stage. yeah but because she had ascended so much she was the second to closing act tyler was the closing act tyler came out after everybody left every chaperone and was like i just want to give a shout out chapel she's amazing because she basically became the de facto headliner even though i'm sure on a price basis and on a stage basis and a billing basis she was second or third and maybe even further than tyler tyler the creator yes who's fantastic huge fan yes um and so you know we've got to see his set he also crushed it but you know it was like i don't know 70 to 100 000 people for chaperone and you know and maybe 20 left after chaperone to see him but it's still 50 60 000 people watching him and he crushed yeah the tiktok effect that was so real and it even actually um dribbles down into more niche genres so there's a band called bad omens and bad omens if you're into metalcore is a big deal they got really big off of tiktok and so suddenly everyone was like, oh, Bad Omens tickets went from like$20 to like$160.

1:00:50Their tours sold out instantly. It was insane to see the same motions, but so far away from pop, so far away from country, all the way into people shouting at you, Metal. I love it. I love to see more eyes on cool stuff. And Chopper Run's fantastic. So you got to give her points. Well, and here, I'll just want to share with you, we made an investment in Chef Reactions, who has 3.6 million followers. And I fell in love with this guy. Just asked him if he would pursue this full-time. And so I literally, as an experiment, gave him 25K, which I like to do as my first bet on really crazy ideas. And I said, hey, if you quit your job and you do this full-time, I'll give you 25K.

1:01:28This lunatic does it. Then he comes to our accelerator. I put another 125K in. He is making a multiple of his salary now, has two employees full-time, including himself. And all he does is reactions to people making food. Seems like a very small concept, but this one has 8.3 million views yeah and he will give a live reaction now this person i don't have the sound on that you're seeing i don't want to get dinged with anything but this person's put a non-safe tray on heat and melting like 20 sticks of butter in it and then he does his whole reaction to this and he's just like how terrible is this dish and then he rates it and says if he would try it anyway i think this person is amazing and i think that there's going to be an entire genre of these people niche people who then go on to do great things he's had every major thermidor hedley and bennett that make the beautiful aprons that you see on the bear just to give you uh like an idea of where he's gone with this business chef reactions no had hedley bennett crossover and his joke is like would you try it on a scale of what he tried on a scale of one to ten that's like actually built into the apron and you can like sort of switch it around and here he is like as a spokesperson and um you know he's got a little thing there that says work faster because that's one of his big things and uh he came to our liquidity like formerly known as angel summit event in napa i think you met him and he went to um the michelin stored restaurant uh uh french laundry yeah they're all huge fans of his they gave him his own custom menu when he went in there and he had this extraordinary experience and so what i love about these businesses when you look at direct to consumer businesses warby parker eight sleep etc you have to have a really unique product in order to make those business work businesses work now normal mattress companies maybe they can't make it work eight sleep is like that's a whole different level of like sleep optimization for quantified self.

1:03:36They figured it out. But you have to spend a lot of money on distribution. Mr. Beast Feastables, no money spent on distribution. Chef Reactions, no money spent on distribution. Zero. So he's got a new product coming out. I won't say what it is, but it's a really cool product and he's going to sell it direct. And I think this will be one of our great companies of all time. And I'm looking for more influencers who have low millions, but who do not know how to build a business or have never done entrepreneurship to come to founder university, we're doing our ninth cohort, go to founder.university, or you can DM me anytime I'm at Jason on Twitter, X at Jason on Instagram, and just email me Jason at calacanis.com, my email for life.

1:04:14I'm always looking to meet more founders and do more crazy investments like this at the precede year zero before you would ever go to Y Combinator or Techstars or Launch Accelerator. Year zero investments, you're not even incorporated yet. Hit me up. I love that story because one I now better understand the thesis behind the chef reactions bet that you made but also I really wish that when I was playing poker and he was sitting roughly three inches behind me and I was too busy to I'm like oh it's that chef guy okay and I just kind of kept playing cards I should have just stopped and spent time with them we got to wrap Jason really quickly though in the twist 500 vein I'm going to add names I think it's really important but also there's so many cool companies out there so some more names that I'm looking at to add.

1:04:55I'll tell you about it next time we chat, but Exowatt, Fervo Energy, Polymarket, we all know, Cobalt Metals, and Merge API, who I'm trying to get on the show. So there's so much going on. It's very exciting. More live news, everybody, coming your way. All right, everybody, this has been another amazing episode of This Week in Startups. That's my guy, Alex Wilhelm. Please, go pay a hundy for cautiousoptimism.news. It's fantastic. Thank you, Jason. I'm Jason. we found a temporary office in Austin now I'm just looking for an event space and if you have a building for sale that would be a good place for me to do podcasts out of and have small events austin at launch.co just share the building with me and I'll see you all next time on this bye-bye see ya