Michael Kim, Jason Calacanis, and David Weisburd on VC marks, Rabois leaving FF for Khosla, and more | E1879

26:52And to Michael's point, like there are big hearted folks in VC who he's, you know, what he's describing is not like a rare case. I think a lot of people feel this sense of loyalty. And when we had a group of founders say to us, hey, we're selling in secondary, will you pass on selling in secondary so that we can sell more? What did you say to that? And I talked to my team and I said, let me get back to you on that. I talked to a couple of my mentors, you know, very high profile VCs who've been in it for multiple decades. And they said, well, you also work for the LPs. And so the language I came up with was, listen, we're parry pursue with you.

27:29Whatever percentage you sell, we'll sell. you it's really in your best interest is what i told them you know for the community for me to be able to liquidate so i can raise future funds so that i can help the next group of entrepreneurs so i have to take advantage of this opportunity for my lps just so you know for the ecosystem it's good the founders like yeah we totally get it no problem but you know the founders took a shot they went to all their investors and said please don't please decline selling secondary and they put a little pressure not a lot and i think you know probably worked with half the investors and the other half were like the lps need to get a taste here too they trusted us with those early investments and took the risk.

28:03So you have to be thoughtful. And J. Cal, secondary has been controversial subject for decades in Silicon Valley. Founders secondary. Is there a specific amount of money that you think is good for founders to take off? Like, you know, I would feel very uncomfortable if they were taking large positions off. Give an exact number, Michael. Yeah, give the exact number. Two founders, what could they take off each without you being worried? I have a number in mind. I want to hear Michael's first though. I think that if a founder would take, say,$2 million off the table by the time a company is at the Series B stage, that makes sense.

28:40I think a secondary at Series A is utterly crazy. That's nice. Generally, you see a founder secondary at Series B maybe, but typically even later stage, Series C or later. Ultimately, what you want to avoid is demotivating that founder. They have to maintain that hustle. And suddenly, if they have$100 million in their bank account, they may not wake up every morning worried about the company. They may not go to bed every night worried about the company. And I think there is, to Jason's point, there is, and to David, your question, there is probably a number and depends perhaps even on geography.

29:21But let's just say Bay Area, I would say that, you know, two to maybe three million maybe helps reduce your mortgage payment or eliminates it, helps ensure that you're comfortable that you can cover your kids' schools and your living expenses. But, you know, double digit millions is just ridiculous. Yeah, my upper bound is 10 million. Because after taxes is, you know, seven, six and a half, whatever it winds up being. Again, it really does based on geography, as Michael correctly pointed out, that's exactly what I thought of. What is your primary residence going to cost? If it's a family, if it's in the Bay Area, it's$2 to$5 million for a home.

29:58I know that sounds crazy to some people who are living outside of New York, LA and the Bay Area. when you start talking about private aviation or a second home that's when a founder's completely completely off the reservation they've jumped the fence they're distracted because i can tell you well you know and i'm 53 now when i got my second home at the age of 50 and i had a ski house my life became like super complex oh there's a second house and i have not caught in private aviation i literally have and i you know i've been sitting there with the jet card in my email box ready to sign and just didn't do it because i was like you know what i just want to stay focused and be normal once i start taking private jets i'm just disconnected i kind of like meeting people at the airport the fact that i can fly business class is a big enough win for me you know it's like delightful to be in united or american airlines business or first good enough for me as a kid from brooklyn so and i can tell you the number that was crazy was i don't know if you had anybody with exposure michael to the hop and founder uh which my friend gerstner had access to he took 200 million off during COVID.

31:01Great move on his part. That was insane. And then there was Bird. And I think the Bird founder, somebody whispered to me that they may have taken 50 million off the table in the scooter company. He got a nice place in Miami. There's your point. Like how focused are you going to be as a 30 year old person with a mansion or two? Yeah. Well, you know, the other thing that was driving this, at least in the Zerp era was the late stage guys as a way of competing were saying hey let's do a founder secondary we'll buy the shares and then post money post close we will give you more options so to be honest in a way that's bribery and that's actually how uh some firms are competing in order to win a competitive deal at the late stage and you know who gets screwed in that is the early stage investors right it might be such a good point and this is like the dark underbelly um and we fought it and i you know that now you put me in a really weird position i'm trying to protect my lps as a seed investor in the company we own 10 you come in and say hey we're going to give the founders this offer to win the deal so we'll put in 100 million and we're going to buy 25 million of their shares and we're only going to buy the founder shares not the other employee shares and then who is the founder going to say they want as their new partner at the board meeting exactly firm a or b well b is offering me 25 million dollars and they said we'll re-up you in the option pool so that's a bribe it's literally a bribe and i was in a board meeting michael saying hey guys um we should fork this conversation let's make a pure fundraising decision for all shareholders and then make the secondary decision and the re-ups for founders at the first board meeting after we closed that and you know what happened i lost oh yeah and i was the bad guy for bringing even bringing it up you know because it's not founder friendly yeah that's this is in the past though i don't think a lot of that's happening now right zero none of it's happening now yeah right but that that did happen so that everyone knows uh in in the past five six years i mean that was i wouldn't say it was common but it was it was happening and that's how later stage firms were competing and you know they're making their best offer and you know they're appealing to some of the short-term thinking of the founders if you want to be generous you could say short-term thinking it's not a criticism of the founders because they're just acting rationally right so it's an offer comparing we have multiple offers and we we pick the one that's best for us yeah so you don't blame it but it's bad hygiene i think for sure it's as michael's saying it doesn't exist anymore but yeah wow that's a good first topic we went deep on some inside information on how things work in silicon valley are you still using your personal number for business well stop such a common mistake that founders make, but you never have to make that mistake again because of OpenPhone.

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34:59So here again is the offer. Go to openphone.com slash twist and get this all organized. Get the 20 % off as well. Openphone.com slash TWIST. T. Speaking of inside information, no longer inside information. In a move that's done the VC community, Keith Arboy is leaving Founders Fund and going to Kostla as a managing director. Keith was previously at Kostla for six years prior to moving to Founders Fund in 2019, where he was a partner for five years. The announcement of Keith Arboy returning came shortly after Kostla announced their$3.1 billion fundraise across their main, their seed, in their opportunity fund.

35:38So Keith will have a lot of capital to play with. When asked about the change, Keith stated that Coastless culture of weekly partner meetings, which included debate, and Coastless hands-on investing approach and founder mentorship was a better fit for him than Founders Fund's more individualistic approach. Jason, are you buying this? Is this the reason Keith moved to Coastless? Well, so there's two things occurring here that I think are of note. Number one, this is succession planning. I didn't see anybody mention that. But Khosla is in his 70s. He's spry. He was at the All-In Summit. He is sharp as a tack.

36:15But, you know, he's in his 70s. And so I think this will be Khosla Raboi as a firm very soon. And I think whenever Khosla decides to hang it up, this will be Keith Raboi's firm. number two there is something to keith about debate you see him on podcasts you see him on twitter he made a funny comment on this podcast you know well i was on the internet and somebody said something that was incorrect so i felt the need to correct them like literally that's how he's wired if somebody on the internet says something that's incorrect he will correct them and you know wrong like this your actions that's a big burden it's well with you know four or five billion people on the internet it's a full-time job but i you know vinod loves keith because they're both candid and they're both like debaters now you go to founders fund and you think about peter thiel and obviously peter and keith and sax all went to sanford together stanford review all that kind of stuff they're all part of the same click but there there there does need to be a recognition of the culture at a firm how does this firm make decisions and and that's something i've learned being an LP and 20 funds, I always ask about that.

37:29And then I've really worked on it at launch. How do we make decisions? We have deal flow locked in, we don't have to compete for deals, because I have a good profile. And I act at the seed stage where this generally, it's not as cutthroat, it's passing the hat a lot. So then what's left? Really two things I have to really solve for. Do we make great decisions? And do we double down, which is also a decision. And that's what I've obsessed with. And I think at Founders Fund, Brian Singerman's approach has been, hire really smart people make bets that they have conviction on or let them start their own companies and then in every fund put a third or some crazy number he's told me into one giant bet and uh you know that's a different culture than say costa's going for and so i think it's great to have that recognition that different cultures work there's consensus-based cultures there's solo freelancing kind of based cultures and i don't know my question for michael kim is do you have a preference for the decision-making culture or do you see one win more than others?

38:31Yeah, I mean, a lot of the platform firms you can say are more siloed. Partners are more siloed and they have the authority to go ahead and make a decision. Founders Fund, clearly absolutely top-tier firm and they've done very, very well with their model. One example to just to amplify what Jason was saying, when they raised Founders Fund 3, they immediately put a quarter of that into Palantir. And that was a brilliant move. Wow. And in Founders Fund 2, they actually sold... Well, so Yammer was in there, David Sachs' prior company. They took the proceeds from that. And then Peter went and basically took cash capital out of the different funds that he had, and he put it all into Airbnb.

39:24And that was a brilliant move. They recycled it. Yeah, they recycled it. And, you know, I think that kind of decision making and non-consensus thinking and high conviction, non-social proof investing is brilliant, but it's not for everybody. And the typical VC firm does have their Monday meetings where they sit around and argue about specific companies. And that works well, too, because there's that sort of pushback that a particular partner might have on a company that he or she might be in love with. And in getting that feedback on additional diligence or why it won't work, I think is important.

40:06So, it really depends on the type of people and how they're making the decision as opposed to this is the, you know, it's one size fit all kind of decision making. It also depends on, to your point, I think, Michael, is this firm nurturing and developing talent, which our firm is doing. We're teaching people the skill of being a VC because we're small. We can't afford to compete with Sequoia for partners given the scale of their fund. So we're training up talent. So we need to have more meetings. We need to have more debate. That's how people get good at the job. They put out their deal memo. They say, hey, we were having an argument today.

40:48non consensus argument, I want to put$25 ,000, which is our founder university bet, you know, first check into a company to help them form the company for 2.5%. And there was like a nice debate going on about this company. And I just came in and I said, Okay, the person who wants to make this bet owns it. We're making the 25k bet, we don't have to over debate it. But I love the debate, great debate. And the debate was so good in our organization. And we have such a high volume of companies as an accelerator and a pre-accelerator we instituted two investment team meetings week every tuesday every thursday we do an investment team meeting and 1 30 till 3 30 you know it's this is not a short amount of time four hours of it a week we now record it transcribe it and summarize it that's like crazy vel but i want to have on tape the discussions and the transcript so we can go do a post-mortem.

41:40We didn't invest in Airbnb. What was the discussion? Who is the loudest person in the room saying, don't do it? Who is the loudest person in the room saying, we have to do it? And so I'm very keyed into this as I go into my second decade and I try to build a firm. Like I'm trying to build a firm right now, right? It's a different thing than just be great individually. But I think, you know, I don't know Keith personally, but my immediate thought was when I read the news, Khosla must have offered him some sort of assurance, if not an agreement, that he would be taking over the firm. Yes, 100%. And I think if you even go further back, Khosla was at KP back in the heyday, right?

42:18Yep. And if you read Sebastian Maliby's book, Power Law, each chapter is about different firms. The KP chapter really talks about how in the early 2000s, there are KP's sort of on Mount Olympus, and then they started hiring old guys. and, you know, like Al Gore or like Colin Powell, whereas in the chapter on Sequoia, makes it crystal clear that they were very focused on generational transitions, bringing on Roloff, bringing in Alford, and how the senior partners like Doug Leone would specifically put them on high profile boards and mentor them and giving them more airtime, giving them more decision-making and basically building their gravitas.

43:06I think those two chapters really stand out. My point here is that, obviously, Kosala left KP, and I think he probably is a very wise observer of venture capital funds, and so he must be thinking about succession. I would also argue that he's probably a very young 70. I don't know his exact age, but let's say he's 70. he probably has another 10 years to go. So I don't think it's an imminent kind of thing, but it shows a lot of foresight. With all the longevity investments he's making, I think he's going to be around for a while. He also reported in the same article that he didn't want to start his own fund due to the operational intensity.

43:48How do you look at that, Michael? What are the pros and cons if Keith was to leave and start his own firm? I mean, clearly he could do it. How much do you think he'd be able to raise as a spin out? You know, Lee Fixel left Tiger and raised billion-dollar funds every year almost. So, you know, I think Keith is in that league or even above that and are certainly peers. And, you know, Keith could raise that kind of capital. I have no doubt about that. The question is, what kind of investing does he want to do? And what, you know, ultimately, what's the appropriate fund size, right? If he wants to have a barbell strategy where he's investing in a bunch of early-stage companies and then perhaps selectively late-stage companies where he can write$100 million checks.

44:33So it really depends on the type of investing that he really likes. My sense is that he likes to be hands-on and really work with founders. And that suggests to me early-stage investing. So a$300 million to$500 million Series A fund out the gate with some seed exposure. and the question is you know when you become a fund manager and you start raising larger funds i'm experiencing that in the last six months i have to go to the middle east i have to go to new york i gotta go to europe i gotta you know do phone calls at 10 p.m i have to do relationship calls you know and maintenance calls so when you have to take over that function i think that's a 12 month ramp up so then does keith at his age want to spend a year raising that fund and even if he did it extraordinarily quickly in six months, it's possible.

45:22It's just not probable. And the environment right now is really challenged. Even if he wanted to go raise that fund, there are people who are pencils down right now. I mean, Michael's active, but that's true, too. I can tell you three out of five, maybe LPs in the United States are pencils down. 60 70 % are like, can when's your closing date? Because we're done for this year, right? And that was 2023. And we're going to open up two slots in 2024. And we'll see what happens from there if we get stripe distributions or by tense distributions, etc. So, yeah, it's got to decide how much of that overhead and then starting a firm, you have to do all this back office stuff, you got to hire operations people.

46:00Like this is it's it's not de minimis, it is significant, and you have to do it right. And we had some missteps as a firm. We you know, with back office stuff, and man, I had to do cleanup. And, you know, if your numbers aren't clean, and you go to somebody like Michael, or, you know, let's say the next tier up, the CalPERS of the world, or, you know, etc. It could just be a no based on you not having your package and your data room correct, right? Like, like a venture fund. Oftentimes, they won't even tell you why. They'll just say thank you very much. Yeah, well, one thing I'd point out, and J.

46:34Cal makes an excellent point about where LPs are today, You know, I think with someone special starting a new firm, then you might get some FOMO. And it's almost like fuel gauges. The fuel gauge might read empty, but I read somewhere that there's probably another 40 to 60 miles of range. And so, yeah, I think LPs would be able to find the capital to make a commitment to someone special. And I think Keith would probably be in that category. Yeah, I would agree with that. They would, but it would still take three meetings and it would take a champion and And it would take somebody saying to the investment board, the investment committee, hey, here's why we're making this exception, right?

47:10And I'm sure Keith, you know, he just loves to invest. He likes to hang out with founders. I get the sense that he probably doesn't, I'll do respect to Michael, who's delightful to hang out with. But Keith might not want to hang out with, you know, a bunch of LPs all the time. It might not be his bag. He might just want to, at this point in his career, he's so successful, he just might want to invest in the next company. Absolutely. And I don't think it's a huge loss for Founders Fund. I think they're going to do great no matter what. that's one of the things when you have that many great partners, you can afford to lose one, right?

47:38It's like being a team with a stacked group of all stars, right? You'll be they'll be fine, too. Yeah, I mean, Kevin Hartz was there, right? And for a couple years, and he moved on started a star, you know, nothing against any of these groups. But, you know, that's actually the mark of a resilient firm, a very strong firm, you know, you lose a star partner or someone who's very promising, you'll continue on. And I think Sequoia is a very good example of that. Yeah, absolutely. Great. And next up, Bill Ackman, everyone's favorite modern day conqueror, has decided to go after Business Insider after Business Insider went after his wife, Neri.

48:18According to the timeline of events, Business Insider sent Bill Ackman's wife, Neri, a 12-page email on January 5th at 5 19 p.m eastern business insider then gave nary only one and a half hours to respond to a 12 page email before publishing their allegations jason what do you think of this was business insider within its rights to go after bill ackman's wife there's kind of a rule like in the mafia and in other you know areas where respect is important you know you don't go after wives and kids like you would never do that it's it's not appropriate um in this case because bill was going after other people for plagiarism and his wife happens to be in academia academia it feels like it's fair game in a way but yeah i think that broadening the discussion out here for this podcast you have some very vocal fund managers out there and some of them have gotten very addicted i would say uh to social media and being heard the all-in podcast you know has become a bit of a joke to some people like oh my god what are we going to think about what's happening in this area of the world this conflict this crazy thing um oh i know we have to ask some vcs like i can imagine being an lp enactments fund you know or anybody else's fund who's taking on these really charged issues and wondering are they focused on their fund and their companies and their trades or are they focused on you know dei at harvard in this battle so i think you know while i appreciate him defending his wife and fighting the good fight and everything like that i do wonder i don't know michael if watching you know gps be spicy on social media or their podcasts etc does that factor into the public personas and chippiness and elbows and craziness your decision making or how you partner with folks or you know just part of being successful being human and i I think people might have larger platforms than other people.

50:17And if they can use that for good, which I think Bill Ackman is doing, I'm all in favor of that. And the thing about Bill Ackman and his firm, Pershing Square, they're activist investors, right? So by definition, Bill is someone who's going to lead a crusade. And I think overall, his funds have done well. I mean, I think there are some notable problem childs like Valiant, for example, but in Herbalife. But as a person, I think it also October 7th, you know, a light bulb went on. And the testimony that the three presidents had in front of Congress, that was another light bulb. And then he started digging in because it's clear that he's intellectually curious.

51:01And oh, by the way, a crusader. And, you know, so that's how he got on to that. And then to your point, Jason, you know, they went after his wife, you know, BI went after his wife. And that's verboten. You can't do that. And to people's families. So he went after, he's on a warpath. And Michael, if you turn the tables, limited partners, obviously there was Harvard, MIT, and Penn involved on the other end with the presidents. Could limited partners in what people call an access class, could limited partners hurt themselves on their end? I think so. I think certain firms that really have no issue raising their next funds, the absolute top-tier VC firms, let's just focus on VC, they can pick and choose who their LPs are.

51:54If there is a strong belief, just to pick on Harvard, that Harvard now is completely overrun by a 200-person DEI department, and it's insidious, and it's permeating through all of the hiring that they're doing, the areas of study that they focus on, and the courses that they offer their students. An absolute top-tier firm who does not believe in that could say, why am I funding this? Because the fact is, a large chunk of a university's operating budget comes from the proceeds of an endowment. It has to be 5 % a year, right? Like they have to distribute. But I know universities where it's like half or 40 % annually.

52:39And so the VC returns the distributions that I'm happily sending back to my LPs. Then there's this epiphany that, well, some of that is actually ultimately funding these programs that I don't believe in. So I think it's really important. So who am I going to work for, right? And I think when you become elite at this job, it's such a good point, Mike. You made two really good points. number one thank you akman's an activist like what do we expect him to do when he sees something that he perceives as unjust in the world but number two such a good point you know when i as a founder would go to sequoia's fat they would have a ceo dinner it was kind of like a dl thing but they would have all the ceos come to the golf course over there and michael moritz would come up and say i just would like to tell you what you're working for and uh the great returns we had the returns from Google helped in Ford Foundation do the following and they'd show what the Ford Foundation was working on and here's an email we got from this foundation here's what they're doing in Africa you know with you know malaria whatever and he would walk the CEOs skipping the LPs right this is just GP to CEO your hard work lets us make money and give it back to these incredible causes and you were just like wow capitalism is awesome and those same people as Michael's pointing out they they may not want to give to these endowments anymore and they might not want to make money for them anymore so that you know they could lose two sources of revenue the donations and oh i want to have my name on a building right and number two i i want to take the what are they they're usually typically 15 percent in vc 10 15 percent yeah some of them have gotten up to 20 25 percent like yale and i think certainly like 30 plus percent for private markets right including pe including pe yeah so i mean it's it's a double that's why i think this is like an important thing to discuss here is who are you making money for and are you motivated to make money for those people um it's a really nuanced point but an important one yeah but then also sort of a related topic is and i'll mention it since uh jason you mentioned the middle east you know how do you decide which authoritarian countries endowment or sovereign sovereign wealth fund that you feel comfortable enough taking you know um and you know there's kind of a danger in getting on a moral high horse to be honest and um we don't have capital from any sovereign wealth funds but i would say that you know i hear amongst uh lps and us lps and also u.s fund managers some debate about should i take money from a an authoritarian company countries uh and uh you you know, sovereign wealth fund.

55:17So there's, I think there's debate about that, too. And I've been very public that I've been spending time there, I don't have any announcements of efforts we have in the region, but I did meet with everybody. And I was doing it more to get educated, to be totally honest, I felt, when we would have these conversations on all in, and, you know, I'm kind of thrust into this position of, you know, needing to have an opinion or be at least educated, I hadn't been to Saudi, I hadn't been to Dubai, I hadn't been to Doha. And, And, you know, and having spent time there now, two trips in the last year, basically in the spring and the fall, I feel really educated.

55:49And my first job was working at Amnesty International. Most people don't know that, but I'm very passionate about human rights. Really? Okay. Yeah. When I was in college in New York, I just felt passionate about it because I had seen Peter Gabriel and Bruce Springsteen play at the Human Rights Now concert. And I was like, wow, I really care about human rights. It just spoke to me as an 18, 19-year-old in college when I was at Fordham. And I was an IT specialist there. and uh now i'm an adult and i'm in a position of power or you know writing checks and you know people are knocking on the door and i've met with them and i've come to the conclusion and people can come to different conclusions and i respect it that this group of the monarch states right they want to have a seat at the table they're investing they're lp and they're going to be on the same boards of the companies we're all investing in they've decided in the next 30 years, and they've said this to me explicitly, we can sell oil for 30 more years, is our projections.

56:41And in that time, we're going to convert our economies to tourism, real estate, private equity, alternative fuel, and venture capital. And venture capital is one of their favorite assets. Private equity, not so much. They did that game. They really like company formation. They have a large amount of capital, and they're very smart. And these are multi-generational folks who've been educated in the West. There's the other thing I learned when I was there. All the people who are our contemporaries they went to oxford they went to michigan state they went to georgetown they went to fordham they went to nyu because they were all on these scholarships that were set up for the nationals there they're very westernized and the countries are making massive progress on personal freedoms and economic freedoms now they're not democracies but they've made progress and so then the question is you have to ask yourself do i want to participate with a group of people who are making massive progress and bending towards you know a better world or do i not want to participate and then have them work with putin and xi jinping because if you just take a look at what's happening in the region as well xi jinping and putin are spending a lot of time there as well and i think we're at this very interesting moment in time where either that region is going to tip one way or the other and it's their choice and so if we don't participate and you know build companies with them well then they're going to build them with xi jinping and and putin that's not a better scenario for humanity either and um they really want to reform you know you go to dubai now it reminds me of new york in the 90s i went to riyadh and you know it has changed more in the last three years than in 30 and i'm pretty enthusiastic about the entrepreneurial scene there as well people from hong kong singapore India, they're all moving their companies to Doha, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, and Riyadh because there's angel investors and seed funds there and programs there and golden visas will give you a visa for 10 years.

58:37So they're going to be a player. The question is, do we want to participate, Mike, or not? And, you know, I think I'm coming to the conclusion that if you build startups together and you build businesses together, that's pretty good for the world, I think. Absolutely. One person's belief. I totally agree. So absolutely. It's an important topic. And, you know, I'll probably make an announcement later this year that we're, you know, might be doing something there in relation to the things I'm known for. I'll leave it at that. Okay, great. Spicy. Well, well, Michael, I really appreciate you jumping, jumping on the podcast and discussing these topics and hope to see you soon.

59:16Absolutely. Yeah, great job, Michael. Really appreciate it. Nice to see you guys. Take care. All right, David. Great job. You've done two great episodes with me. I really appreciate it. And if you don't know about the Liquidity Podcast, I used to call it the Angel Podcast, but because our conference and what I do is expanding beyond just angel investors to include LPs and GPs, I've decided to rebrand. So the Angel Summit we do in June will be called Liquidity, and we're spinning out this content and having this Liquidity Podcast, which is a niche broadcast for LPs and GPs. David, you did a great job today.

59:50Awesome. Thank you, Jason. And thank you for mentorship and for being a great model for moderation. Oh, thank you. And where can people follow you on social media? You got a social, are you on the social media, x.com? For sure. You could follow me on x, dweisberg, D-W-E-I-S-B-U-R-D. And you could also follow me on my podcast where I interview limited partners, including Michael Kim. And I even had J-CAL on the episode called The Limited Partner. So check it out. And you just had Friedberg on. Great job. I did have Friedberg. Did you talk about All In at all? I looked in the chapter. We did not.

1:00:21We talked about his life as an investment banker. Did you know that? I know. I heard about that. No all-in talk. I thought for sure you were going to ask him about all-in. No, I tried to vary it up a little bit. Keep it interesting. Very good. Very good. All right. We'll see. Oh, and so if you're having a chance, if you get on the liquidity feed or you search for liquidity podcast in your podcast player, subscribe there. Probably once a week-ish. And you'll get information about the event in June. It'll be June 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, I believe, in Napa for LPs and GPs only. and angel investors, high net worth individuals who participate in the space.

1:00:55And we have a YouTube channel, search for Liquidity Podcast on there, you'll probably find it. And liquiditypod.com has all the links. So if you have a chance and you like this, subscribe to it or rate it, that would be helpful because this is episode zero. And the handle everywhere, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, everywhere, Twitter X is Liquidity Pod, Liquidity P-O-D, and we've got a nice beautiful logo for you. All right, we'll see you next time. Thank you.