State of early-stage VC, finding PMF, Caroline Ellison testifies & more with Zach Coelius | E1826

34:52Because if they don't want it, they're not going to click on it. If they really want it really bad, they're going to like click, click, click, click. You're going to have a high CTR and you're going to have something really, really viable. Do they submit the email address? Do they leave comments? Like that so quickly will prove - Classic landing page technique that takes a day of work. Nobody does it. Like literally, I see zero startups that come in when they're pitching, They're like, oh, here's our landing page technique approach. Here's the outcomes. And here's the metrics. And I'm like, they never, they never do it.

35:22And here I typed in AI tool, video tool. The auto correct or auto suggest on Google added the word free. So I thought I'd add that. Sure. And to your point, the first sponsored ad is from Vimeo. This product actually exists. Then one from Adobe, the new Adobe Express, grab the best AI video maker. It exists. Yeah. And then turn video into AI, create stunning videos with AI, video leap app. So I don't know who that is. And, you know, what you learn very quickly is not only is this validated, but you have two of the largest players in the world doing it. And then a third person who's a startup right here with that product and market.

36:00So do you have to validate from that point on? No, you've got massive competitors. You're too late to the market, perhaps. yeah or perhaps there's a good opportunity for you to do something that's got a beachhead market a channel a bigger niche maybe it's just for parents and baby pictures maybe it's just for family photos um so there you have it a very simple way for you to validate is landing pages and that's the the category you want to look at um someone needs to talk about this like just startup validation just like here's how to validate your startups so like and just like go through all different categories and like just with examples yeah yeah and you know to your point uh and to the person's question we saw this as an opportunity we have this founder university which we did as two days which we changed to a 12-week program now and we had 2 000 people apply zach for founder university uh for the 12-week course we accepted 450 people representing 220 teams and i added would you like to be considered for the launch funds 25 000 friends and family investment what percentage of people who filled out their weekly progress report do you think check that box you had to pick what 10 10 just because people are bad at that 60 oh yes and this is at a 1 million dollar valuation so it is a 25k check at a million dollar valuation six out of 10 people click it every week cool i did that as a test so talking about a b testing and product validation i didn't know i thought maybe you know people have their own 25k so they're just you know if I was starting a company today, I would put 250k in for my own pocket, you would put 500k and you've done really well for yourself.

37:34And then maybe you'd call some of your friends and say, Hey, I'm raising at a$5 million valuation$10 million valuation friends and family around I'm putting in 250 myself, you want to put in 250 again. Yeah. But you know, we forget the days where you were raising 15. It's a pretty scary concept to for you, Zach, at that time to find 15k in your own personal account, and then write it to the company. Yeah, I didn't have it. um and so i was just shocked you know how guess how many in the last two classes we have those checks we wrote take a guess uh 460 so 240 you wrote 100 of them 46 wow that's awesome that's cool that's quite an awesome portfolio 45k checks and i'm just like you know when this thing gets to 300 of these yeah which is only 7.5 million yeah i'm gonna be really interested to look at what of these yeah what i got right just little 25k micro checks what's in there and then uh you know so you we as uh investors also a b test concepts and try them and we'll see what happens right we're running the test we got there's a market for it now let's see if the returns are there right yeah so we'll see very quickly that that's really fascinating it's really different it kind of goes back to the original charles hudson idea of writing really small checks or really low valuations into a lot of companies and then seeing what happens from that but you've got because of your media empire and because of the footprint that you have all the infrastructure and the team and all the stuff that you've built you've got the ability to do that at scale which is like yeah i like that idea i'm i'm gonna be really curious to see what comes out of that yeah that's absolutely awesome yeah i got it's gonna be interesting it's kind of part of my launch for pitch if you want to read that launch.co slash memo i wrote a deal memo but well in this third fourth fund we're doing my plan is to have 300 of those checks in the fund and then to invest a second time in maybe the top 20 of those so maybe 60 of them would get 100 to a 500k check from us and then that would put us at you know five to ten percent ownership in those come the winners of that company if you think of it like a funnel yeah yeah um so we'll see it's a great way to do it i like it that's smart yeah it's an experiment right it'll be 7.5 percent of the hundred million fund, hopefully.

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40:55So to access our new Miroverse template and thousands of others, sign up today for a free Miro account at miro.com.com. startups. Again, M I R O.com slash startups mirror.com slash startups. So an interesting question, somebody asks that they are going to be coming to the Bay Area for two weeks, starting Sunday, any advice on how to officially meet VCs and pitch my startup? Okay, so they're just showing up. They're showing up and they want to walk down. Well, Sandhill Road and just pitch folks. Yeah. Is that exactly how it works or uh no no no uh i would i would change the expectations uh at the end of the day silicon valley is a is a place of relationships and it's about uh honestly it's a place of giving which is like you in silicon valley when you show up the nobody knows you and the only way to really break in here the best way to break in here is to just do favors so it's funny when um joseph wallah who was the founder of hello sign um he uh was on my debate team and my ex-wife and him were really good friends.

42:03And so when he first moved to Silicon Valley, he was like, what do I do? How do I break in here? I was like, look, it's really simple. You just go to as many events as you possibly can. And you go, there's tons of events happening in San Francisco every day, all over. You meet people and you just help them. You figure out ways that you can be useful to them in scalable ways, like not where you're going to go work for them. We're going to put hours and hours of work in, but like where you can make an introduction or you can help them find a customer or you can do something useful for them. And you just plant these seeds throughout the city, throughout the valley.

42:32You're just constantly meeting people and helping. And you're helping in ways that are valuable to them, but low cost to you. And you just do it over and over and over again. And it takes a long time, but those seeds, they become an orchard. And that orchard bears fruit like you wouldn't believe. Because the valley creates so much amazing wealth and so much promise and potential and awesomeness that if you're out there helping people, they will give back to you like you wouldn't believe. But it takes time. You can't just come here and show up and be like, I'm just going to go pitch people and then everyone can give me money.

43:04You need to know that your time in Silicon Valley, if you want to really come here, is about relationships. Now, once you have a company that's scaling and you're growing and you have month-over-month metrics, totally different story. But in the beginning, it's about helping people. Yeah, I call this the Johnny Appleseed strategy. Johnny Appleseed, actually a real person. And what he did was he planted a bunch of apple trees from apple seeds and then he took those um seedlings i guess whatever you call a small tree um and he sold those or gave them to people to start their own uh apple orchards and this uh planting of seeds and being you know in a minor way helpful to people um really scaled for him and uh that's the strategy you're talking about it could be just uh setting up dinner with three or four people you know and then this was my hack when i was trying to break into the industry i would find one or two people who wanted to have dinner with me i would get a reservation for six or eight at a mexican or pizza joint somewhere where i could put a super cheap and i could put a bunch of food on the table chinese food as well and i just say hey everybody um i see the two people hey did you know anybody interesting i have an extra seat or two and i'd ask those two people they'd say i know this person this person like okay great can you introduce me to them i'll talk to them on the phone hey what are you working on you listen you ask a couple questions then you invite them to come to dinner and they say oh by the way somebody dropped out i have one extra seat yeah you know anybody you know two or three interesting people um or you could just cold email people hey i'm having dinner with three or four people would you like to come to dinner i would do this constantly yeah i remember one time i was in at sundance with david sacks and elon musk it was the preview of thank you for smoking yeah and uh walter mosberg was there and i was having a talk with walter mosberg and i was like walter hey uh can i bring my friend elon and he walter uh now uh walter mosberg got a little upset at me he's like listen i don't want to take pitches you know i'm just here like you know whatever and i was like okay no i won't bring you and i didn't bring you on oh wow because he called me out on it he was savvy he knew i was using his name in my relationship with him from engadget yeah to help elon because i wanted him to review the tesla whatever when it came out so he kind of saw right through it he called me out on it i was like you know i got elon with me can i bring him elon didn't ask me to do that i was just doing it because i was trying to help elon out because the you know the car company was failing um and so those stories well those stories of me helping people whether it was travis before uber or elon you know when he had just uh started the the tesla journey those a lot of those are legendary stories now of just trying to be helpful to people be of service try to help people it all comes back so less focus on you more focus on um helping others and it all comes back it's a huge giant favor bank here and goodwill so keep building up that goodwill every chance you get all right dave asks you discuss money going after everything in a zerp environment a zero interest rate phenomenon i think is what the p stands for environment what attributes of companies uh that are getting funding today more stable and break even different industries what is working today.

46:15Great question. What is the profile? Let's leave out the type of company like AI, we everybody knows AI companies are getting funded. But what is the what are the attributes, the qualities of the variables that you see help people clear market in the seed stage? Let's put this on seed stage. And then we'll do series A as well. What are the qualities you see at the seed stage? Any of the three phases we outlined? And then at the series A? I mean, the biggest thing is that every everybody was able to raise money a few years ago in zirp um and raising capital was easy capital was free it was it was like it was quite quite a wild time today the bar is substantially higher and what that means is is like when you go into your buddy your friend you're raising and precede you go to your friend and you're like hey i got this crazy idea i want to do it two or three years ago they were getting zero percent on their bank deposits their the stock market was overly inflated so it didn't make sense to go buy public equities uh their house prices were through the roof so they didn't want to go buy more houses they had cash sitting in the bank and they were like i don't know what to do with it okay fine i'll invest this crazy startup you didn't have an alternative today you're making six plus percent on your cash sitting in a in a very safe investment uh vehicle uh houses are cheap uh cheaper theoretically cheaper depending on where you want to go.

47:41They're on the market for six months. So you're not like you're having to overpay and come over the top. So you can take your time and pick the right house for you. So that's true. Public equities are all over the place. So there's some things that are overpriced. Some things are massively underpriced. Like there's opportunities everywhere to deploy capital right now. And smart capital allocators who are sitting on capital, whether they're your friend, Bob, who's a dentist who has a couple extra hundred K or their multi-billion dollar fund, they've all got places to put their capital. So you're in competition.

48:09So you literally have gone from a place where the FOMO... Oh, by the way, and two or three years ago, everything was going up. Every startup went up 50%. So I would feel so dumb when I would pass on a startup and then see somebody come in and mark it up at a crazy price. Every time that happened, I was like, I'm an idiot. I should have done that deal. So the FOMO was raging back then. And now, not so much. Now, the alternative. We're all looking at startups that are fighting to stay alive. uh and we're looking at qualities of those startups the ones that you see getting a 500 to a k to a million dollar check from a seed fund let's start there you know pair first round uh you know some seed stage fund yourself me well what are the qualities of those companies yeah so we could we could break it into the three groups if we want or we can make it simple in the beginning you either you've either validated an idea and if you've a validated idea in a big market and it's it's a great opportunity and you can prove it call me call jason call other people you're very quickly going to figure out if we are excited about your validation or not or i'll tell you i'll be like um this is what i need to see um and that validation if you have that great now you doesn't really matter anyone who validates a big idea in a big market that has the chops to build it is going to find the investors are going to be excited to talk to them second piece you kind of just subtly put it in there has the chops to build it yeah is critically important yeah you know we could build a landing page and validate it but if you're just an idea guy or gal and you're a solo founder chances go way down oh yeah if you're a team of three man chances go way up because i think investors correctly see teams of three as having a greater chance of survival and it's more serious and you've proven that you can get two other people to come on the journey with you like shackleton getting people to go to the north or south pole or wherever he went like pretty pretty uh hard to convince people to come on a journey and if two or three of the people two out of the three are actual builders who can actually build the thing and have the chops to build it and have previously built stuff and are in the process of building the prototype and you can show each week or two hey we made a little more progress that's going to be specifically very attractive to our firm.

50:28We really like builder founders. We really like multiples of founders and we really like product velocities, the internal term we use. Yeah. I mean, so if you, if you come to me and you're like, Hey, I invented a new battery that runs a thousand miles, you know, unless you literally are the world's expert in batteries, I'm just going to hit archive on that. If you come to me and you're like, Hey, I got this idea that's trivial to build and I can build it really easily, you know, and there actually is a mode, you know, that's another hard part. Then, you know, suddenly you might find people get interested.

51:01So the question is not so much what, what are the capacities of your builders is what are you trying to build? And is it possible to be built by you and your team? Yeah. And so this is absolutely critical at the series. A, it's pretty straightforward. You're, you're looking for, I would say 10 % month over month growth, growth, two to three x growth year over year. So you're doubling from 250k to 500 to 750k. Or you're going from 500k to 1.2 million or from 700k to 1.7 something in that range, two to three x growth in the low millions of dollars is going to be interesting for a series A today, could be as little as 500k could be as much as two or 3 million to get a series a to get that vc to say this is one of my 10 boards i'm going to be on and this is one of my five million dollar i have 10 five million dollar series a checks to write uh you know i'm going to buy 10 of your business i'm going to spend the next 10 years with you uh if it works that's what you're looking at doubling your revenue year over year on a base of let's call 500 to 1 million something like that yeah yeah minimum and one thing that is really important right now, it's capital efficiency.

52:16So if you spent$5 million to get a million dollars in revenue, you're going to find that most investors are going to be very skeptical of that. The unit economics of how you acquire customers, and then what those customers are worth, really, really matters today. Two or three years ago, nobody cared. You had all sorts of crazy companies that were being funded that had negative unit economics, where it cost them more to acquire a customer than they would ever make from those customers. But people didn't care. As long as you that growth, you were able to raise more capital. Now people are going to look very closely at what is your cost of acquiring customers?

52:48And then what is the value of those customers? And what's the long term value of the business? Because right now in the public markets, you can buy SaaS companies very, very cheaply, like you can buy SaaS companies at a very low price. And so 1015 times revenue. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's amazing how cheap. It's amazing. Yeah, I mean, and so if you were in that position, and you, if you're trying to pitch David Sachs for your series A or Lemkin, Jason Lemkin, two really great SaaS investors, and you'd play 10 million to get to 1 million ARR, that is wildly inefficient. yeah uh now if you spent three million to get to one million arr they're going to say hey wow for the first million in great how much is it going to cost you to get the next uh million is it going to cost you two million to get a million in is going to cost you one million and the closer you get to that one to one ratio i spent a million to make a million in reoccurring revenue i think they're going to be delighted when you start to get to three four or five times they're going to go huh are you just throwing parties and flying first class to conferences and just not being thoughtful about the growth so if you are lucky enough to have growth it has to be thoughtful growth it cannot be spastic um you know wasteful growth so capital efficiency you're going to hear that term all the time multiple founders and builder founders are also capital efficient the other piece of capital efficiency that we love internally is the company doesn't go out of business.

54:17If the company is capital efficient, they get a they might have 24 months of runway. When we see people raising money, they got six months of runway, they're constantly coming to us nine months, and they're in a panic. We're like, this person is not doing great financial planning. And it's usually because it's three idea founders who want to pay themselves 200k each, and then hire a third party dev shop for a million dollars a year. That may have worked in Zerp that you're blowing 1.6 million that way not going to work here, hire your own developers, get them internal. that's the key um or have them as co-founders ideally all right uh listen big big breaking news story while zach and i were taping here sbf's former romantic partner who was the ceo of alameda research took to the stand for the first time today zach in the sbf trial according to reports from inside the courtroom it's not televised but people are reporting from inside the courtroom um allison admitted to fraud during her time in alameda under sbf's direction that second part, really important.

55:17This is Carolyn Ellison, I believe is her first name. She placed the blame for misuse of FTX user funds directly on SPF claiming he quote set up the systems leading to Alameda taking roughly 14 billion from FTX. Some more quotes from Carolyn Ellison Alameda took several billion billions of dollars from FTX customers and used it for investments. I sent balance sheets that made alameda look less risky than it was prosecutors made ellison's point made ellison point out spf and say everything was under his direction um and uh here is an excerpt from ellison's back and forth with prosecutors these are from uh inner city press um on x thank you to them who uh they cover sdny trials that's the southern district of new york the hardcore folks uh prosecutors how do you know the defendant ellison we met at jane street then alameda we dated for a couple of years uh jane street i met the founders of that uh firm really interesting uh savvy firm prosecutors did you commit crimes ellison fraud what others with others yes prosecutors do you see sam back but freed ellison he's over there prosecutors what's his involvement in the crimes ellison he was the head of alameda then ftx he directed me to commit these crimes prosecutors what makes you guilty ellison alameda took several billions of dollars from ftx customers and used it for investments.

56:41Prosecutors, what was the defendant's role? He set up the system and told us to take the money. How much did Alameda take to repay its lenders? In the Ellison, in the ballpark of 10 billion, ultimately around 14 billion. Prosecutors, how did you defraud Alameda lenders? Ellison, I sent balance sheets that made Alameda look less risky than it was. Prosecutors, why was there not enough money for customers in November 22? Ellison, we had taken we had taken it to repay lenders wow uh well i guess she's flipped and is going for a smaller sentence but what do you think of this entire crypto space writ large did you invest in it and what do you think this trial um which is obviously going to result in a massive sentence for spf i think he's getting life in prison or at least 30 plus years i set the over under at 30 years everybody took me over so i mean i didn't set a great line but what do you what do you think this case represents in the bigger picture here i mean i've always been highly skeptical of crypto because it's it's it's fundamentally it has beautiful product market fit for doing illegal like it's amazing it's amazing product market fit for illegal things it's so good and i think a lot of people like they see the growth and they see the money that's flowing into crypto and they're like oh there's a real thing here it's like no it's really good for illegal amazingly good at that yeah um and you know i think i think this is a great example of that which is you know they they engaged in a giant fraud um because of the nature of crypto crypto facilitates and makes it so easy to do this and they just they they it's amazing the the amazing digital digital money and the ability to create your pop up your own currency if they didn't have this ftt token they made if they didn't have the ability to move money around seamlessly if people didn't pour money into the system to gamble in their casino uh they wouldn't have had the opportunity to do this if this was actual real dollars there would have been real controls in place if this was equities this was people's netflix shares there would be really serious controls in place but because they were playing with an entirely new paradigm shifting i'm using air quotes there paradigm shifting technology all regulation all controls were removed what do you think happens if you play chaos and we had a poker game where one time chamath and sky date my friends were like okay let's play an orbit of no rules poker there's now no rules uh you can do whatever you want and so me and chamath lead over to each other we put our four cards together and said we're playing from the same four cards yeah and then somebody else said okay great i get to take two cards from the bottom of the deck because i'm the button the button now gets the day to and it immediately turned into chaos it was lord of the flies uh and and then then it was like okay if i have a deuce i get everybody's stack first person to turn over deuce and then i turn over and do seven i get everybody's stack it was complete chaos what do you think when a bunch of young entitled and i don't want to say brilliant but you know above average intelligence let's say and above average tech savvy you give them their own casino and say do whatever you want make any rule you want they're like okay great uh let's tell everybody that they are guaranteed to double their money playing roulette and then let's have everybody lose 90 of the time go yeah yeah i mean it's just the michael lewis quotes were just did you watch any of the michael michael lewis quotes go by some of the things he appeared to have gotten snowed pretty hard so i um it's really from weird yeah i'm i'm i'm really really uh interested to see if tethers role and all this comes out because the end of the day tether is literally has the ability to print money whenever they want wherever they want at billions and billions of dollars and it appears that what they do is they basically take that and they fund all these exchanges like the biggest one they had ftx and they give them the ability to print billions of dollars as a loan quote unquote um so that the exchange is able to basically have access to free capital to go to go gamble and that it appears what happened here is that ftx at the end of the day they gambled with their loans they lost them and then they had to steal from their customers to pay them back and the great part of all this is one of the bets they placed was on anthropic and apparently like i don't know exactly what the numbers were but supposedly there's this 500 million dollar number now i don't know if that's how much they put into anthropic or how much their anthropic stake is worth but um supposedly they wanted to bring that up in the trial and the judge is like yeah prosecutors are like no you don't get to you know do a parlay with the jets and the giants and then you hit some crazy parlay and you win with stolen money and then because you paid back the grandma you stole it from yeah and then gave her interest yeah you don't you sorry that's not how uh stealing works um anyway yeah it's uh this is uh absolutely disastrous speaking of disastrous the city of san francisco has lost their mind and i know correct me if i'm wrong uh but cruz was one of your great investments of all time am i correct it was one of my first uh so we invested is the first second investment i ever made first obviously billion dollar eggs that i've ever had so i was like woohoo look at that and you know what it really really makes my heart warm to see them getting all the progress that they're getting because every year 40 000 people in america die from human driver error there's no other the only cause of people dying from car crashes is humans being stupid they're looking at their phone they're drunk they're not paying attention they're just driving like morons 40 000 dead people a year just in the u.s alone and robot cars are going to eliminate that we literally have virtually no deaths from that every again it's like curing cancer it's like so freaking huge so i get really excited when i see them driving around well and we we talked on all in if you just look at the top three or four reasons people die in car accidents is you know drunk driving speeding distracted driving not wearing a seat belt yeah all four of those are opt-in by stupid humans yeah like stupid humans get in cars don't use their seatbelt use their phone drink and speed uh and so cars just automated cars can't do any of those so the top four killers are removed immediately um what did you see that was a deep tech investment that you made i think a decade ago right first investments how did you make that deep tech investment that you knew was going to be a long bet what what gave you the courage to do it at that time and make that long bet.

1:03:26It was all Kyle. So Kyle, the founder of Cruise, I had tried to hire him to work for me for many, many years, for over a decade. I met him when he first started with Justin TV and I was like, wow, this guy's brilliant. He's like, he's really, really good. And I was like, please come work for me. Please come work for me. And he was like, yeah, no, yeah, no. He's smart enough to avoid that. And so when the Justin TV team split off and they ended up starting Twitch, they ended up starting Exact, which was justin's thing uh and then they ended up starting uh social social cam yeah michael's thing was social cam and then kyle went and started um cruise um i was just like in love i'm like this guy's really good and so and the market is so big i mean you think about the scale of the market for autonomous driving is like it's huge trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars i mean it's like it's probably one of the biggest markets in the world we have yeah it's the tem is ridiculous so san francisco is uh one of the test beds uh a hit and run driver hit an individual yeah that individual tragically ricocheted off the hit and run driver the human yeah and got pinned under a cruise car yeah uh no problems with the cruise car yet the local socialist communist lunatics fringe in san francisco including the san francisco chronicle which is i think a bunch of lunatic communist commie bastards over there uh feel free to quote this they just said they have mind worms their brains their brains have literally like become so convinced of their own rectitude and righteousness about the beliefs the political beliefs that they hold that they just literally just engage in falsehoods constantly and the falsehood here was they framed this as cruz yeah was responsible here which quickly got debunked um your thoughts just on um the progress how do we how do we continue to accelerate progress of the human species in the face of uh lunatic fringe trying to including sadly some members of the press were part of this lunatic fringe which are just so anti-tech how does the tech industry deal with this i mean the good news is that we've always had stupid people they've always been around They've always done stupid things.

1:05:41And I don't think that they've stopped us before. They're going to do the best they can to slow things down, to try to create their own narratives and to try to change the future in the ways that they want them to be. But if you look back at the history of technology, it's a history of constant improvement and progress. Like, you can look at the cost of solar power now. I mean, it's falling so rapidly that there's a real hope that we actually will have clean, safe power that we can use everywhere, everywhere, every now. It's so crazy you bring that up. Literally, in Australia, they hit 126 % capacity with solar.

1:06:24And now they're having to figure out what to do with it. So because rooftop solar and solar farms, they are doing so well, they're just planning on doing a bunch of batteries. And the amount of coal being used went down 80 % as wind and solar levels started hitting these record this summer. And so congratulations to the people of Australia. Germany had hit that as well during some particularly sunny days. it's not always sunny in new jordan yeah australia's got a lot of sun so the the the southern part of australia is just gonna have free energy forever and so they're doing a major major push there so yeah and you can think about all the things that we could do with free energy like it's like the world the world could be a very cool place if we have free free clean safe energy um and so you look at people have been fighting technological improvement for the history of humanity the luddites have always been there they'll always be there and so the the people who run san francisco they they are they are luddites at the core they don't want any more housing built they want their museum to stay the way it is they don't want anything to change in their their little museum city and they don't they don't like technology and they don't like technology companies and so like but at the end of the day the cruise is safer cheaper better it literally is going to replace all human driving.

1:07:55Our kids will not drive cars. There's no reason to. You know what? We'll be thrilled with that. Check this out. This is just so insane. That's awesome. The season of renewable records on Australia's main grid continues apace. With the first days of spring, also adding a new milestone for solar in South Australia, the country's most advanced renewable state, combined output of rooftop and large-scale solar reached a record 120 % of local demand at 1255pm on Sunday, according to data provided yada yada. Rooftop solar alone contributed 93.7 % of the state's demand with peak production of 130 1332 megawatts large scale solar added another 23 % of 374 megawatts.

1:08:43This is extraordinary. And the state was reporting more than 400 megawatts of excess power to victoria so now different when they say states they mean regions of australia just people uh so different states inside of australia are shipping their energy to each other because they've got so much and so abundance is upon us folks all we need to do is keep executing and what we need most of all is great entrepreneurs to take money from zach and jay cal let us slide in that 100k let us slide in that 250 get on the cap table 100 exit for us so that we can keep doing this job because it is the greatest job true on the planet to be able to sit with entrepreneurs zach how lucky are we two lucky bastards does not suck it's just great even in this sucky 18 month period where like i have to do five times as many meetings to raise 10 as much it's like a it's a 50x lift i think right now raising the phone right now i mean we'll get there it's no big deal but um how lucky are we even in you know with the shutdowns and the hard work to get to witness things like uber and cruise change the world robin hood whatever you get to you know invest in it's just fantastic what a job we're so lucky life does not suck i like it a lot all right everybody you know how to get to zach you figure it out you're an entrepreneur and uh if you want to come to the founder university i mentioned founder.university we're doing it quarterly now so and i do maybe three in-person sessions with the teams so you get to spend get some face time with jacal as well uh so founder.university it's my new passion we'll see you all next time on this week in startups thanks zach