Why New Yorkers hate AI Friends, Producer Claude gets an update, and the value of human writers in the Age of Slop | E2185

26:09So going up into the app layer there. But I want to just highlight how quickly things can change, Jason. We talked about the Grok code model when it came out, and I've been keeping tabs on its market share over on OpenRouter, which does hundreds of billions, in fact trillions of tokens. So it's big enough to have a market share of material note. But if you take a look at how fast things have changed, this teal right here on this chart is XAI's market share going from very little to 40%, I think, in the latest column. So Anthropic does have real competition on the coding front. I think people are underselling how much of that market XAI has taken.

26:45So I'm going to be curious to see how much market share Anthropic can get back, at least on OpenRouter, from the Elon Musk AI company, because they really have done quite well lately. Got to hand it to them. It's pretty darn impressive. Yeah. At this pace, we're going to see developers obviously become 30 % more efficient a year, 40%, some astounding number. Then you're going to see people who are vibe coding or adjacent to developers. Maybe they have the ability to do light coding, but they never took the coding job, which is probably 10 times the 50 million developers in the world. I always hear 30 million, 40 million, 50 million developers in the world.

27:26I'm going to start saying 50 million. 50 million developers in the world, I think, will 10x to 500 million. In other words, we're going to go from if there's 7 or 8 billion people on the planet, what's the number? 7 or 8. You know, right now it's less than 1 % of the planet is a developer. It's going to go to 5%. And 5%, you know, times 7, 8 million people, 350 million developers, 400 million developers. That's going to be a very different world, folks. A very different world. And that doesn't count, you know, having the other 95 % be able to vibe code or another 10 % be able to vibe code. I'm leaving vibe coding out of that.

28:06I'm doing developers as a dedicated career and the next group of people who are developer adjacent and just haven't had the focus level or the aptitude or the time to just go fully into development. Jason, there's a company out there called Circle. And no, I'm not talking about the Staplecoin company. That went public earlier this year. This is circle.so. We use this product. We do. Yes. For Founder University, we use circle.so. It's a community platform. And it's also really good at putting in your curriculum. So you can have like, here's our curriculum. Here's chat room. So think of it as a place to bring a community together to function as, you know, like a course.

28:52So it's kind of like a course combined with a chat room combined with Slack. It's very good. We like using it. We are considering moving off of it because we just love Discord and we love Notion. And so there's this tension. Do we use a full application like Circle where people have to learn to use it again? Or do we use something people already know like the Notion Discord combination or Notion plus Slack? but Slack charges you for every person. So it's very hard to do free stuff on Slack. It doesn't give you your whole history. So we think the future is either Circle or Discord plus Notion, but it is something I've used now, I think, for four, maybe four years, and it's really good.

29:37Circle.so, it's a great product. Yeah, well, it has a lot of competition, but it's also doing very, very well. So in May of this year, the company said that it reached profitability and was going to reach about 50 million ARR by the end of this year. Critically, it's been essentially bootstrapping. It's been making its own money. It hasn't raised since 2021. And then this September, so just a couple days ago, the company said it's going to blow past the 50 million ARR milestone soon, on track for its best quarter ever, more fee cash flow every month than it can wisely reinvest, and its rule of 40 score is up to 64.

30:11So here's a company that really has found an amazing growth trajectory here. I'm just trying to figure out, Jason, how common is this trajectory? Because they raised money before, venture capital, Tiger, et cetera, back in the day. And then they've just been exploding and funding their own growth. It feels very rare. So what's going on here?

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31:48That's right, aws.amazon.com slash startups slash credits. Well, you know, that whole cohort of companies, they had a challenge in that they probably raised money at a very high valuation, right? when the Tigers came in and did a lot of these rounds. And they probably needed time to finish the product, to explain to customers like me, here's the value of this product, to then get us to pay for it and to value it. And yeah, sometimes it's better for a founding team to just keep their head down and work on product market fit than work on raising more money. So they had a million in ARR in 2020. and then it grew 4x in 2021, it doubled in 2022.

32:36That's what you hear sometimes, triple, triple, triple, double, double, double, something in that range. And then a 2x run rate in September of 2023. So this is a high growth company. High growth in the public markets is like Uber or DoorDash or Coinbase or Robinhood. 15 to 30 % year over year is considered high growth. That's a growth company. Blue chip companies grow five or 10%, right? is I think generally the accepted growth rate. But yeah, 50 million in ARR, profitable, tons of money laying around, that's awesome. And then you don't have to dilute yourself. So there's many ways to build a great company.

33:14It doesn't always have to be just dumping huge amounts of cash into the company and doing unnatural acts. Sometimes the best thing to do is just sit there, talk to your customers, refine the product, iterate on building a great team. And if you want to understand the rule of 40, it's a SaaS software financial metric. Basically, rule of 40, a company's annual revenue growth rate, which here could be 50%, it could be 100%, plus it's EBITDA, it's profitability. So let's say you had a 20 % EBITDA and you were, I don't know, you grew 40 % this year, you'd have a number of 60. They have a number, 64.

33:54And that's up from 45. So I think the reason this number is coming out, I'm not sure where that number was released in a press release or in an interview, is because they want to show that they are a great company to buy and then eventually for people to invest in. Ah, okay. So yeah, the founders have been tweeting through their growth trajectory, which I really appreciate because it gives us such a better insight into how companies are performing. On the rule of 40 point, Jason, I have heard different things from different people about what should count as profitability. Some people like operating cash flow.

34:27Some people prefer EBITDA. Some people claim it really should be gapping that income. Is there a standard in startup land that people should stick to? I think as long as you explain your math, you show your work is the way to do it. Most people will be able to figure it out. Sometimes you have one-time transactions that occur on a balance sheet of a startup that can just distort things. Let's say a founder got bought out. So you use 10 million of your profits that year to buy some early shares and then you retire them, how do you put that in? So you'd probably separate that out and you'd just say, hey, here's the gross profits or here's what our EBITDA would have been, you know, if we hadn't done this office build out or bought out this lease, whatever it is.

35:08So you just, the growth is the growth, that's easy. So if the growth is 30%, great. And then, yeah, you can back of envelope, explain away your profitability. And if you get over 40, man, it's just, it's hard to fake. That's what's nice about that number is it's hard to fake. If you had 0 % profitability, 0 % EBITDA, but you were growing 50 % year over year, people would be like, okay, that's fine with me. Eventually, you know, you could stop marketing or cut some growth team or cut salaries and run this business for profits. If it's 50 % profit margin business and it's not growing, yeah, that'll come out as well.

35:50And probably balance. They probably should have a rule of 40 where there's like a third thing, which is, and neither of these represent more than 75%, right? So there's some sort of balance between those two. All right. Well, I like that a lot. But do you think companies today that have quite a, you can get the rule of 40 in a number of ways because you can have high growth and some lack of profitability. Is there currently a a unprofitability percentage point that's too high to explain away with growth? I'm thinking about early stage companies here that might be burning a lot of cash, but also growing very quickly.

36:27So is there an extreme that's too much? No, that's where you get to your runway. And so if your runway is 36 months and you're losing 10 million a year, nobody cares. Now, if your runway is six months and you're losing, you know, 100K a month. And if you can get that to 50K a month, now you got a year of runway. You know, people are going to have that conversation. So it really has to do with runway. And then can you raise more money? And how easily can you raise money? Circle could raise money probably easily, depending on what the valuation was when they did their peak ZERP, if they did a peak ZERP type round, which I'm totally guessing here.

37:07But end of the day - $195 million was that round valuation according to PitchBook. $395? No,$195. Oh, okay. So yeah, they could easily raise money again. If they're at$50 million and they're profitable and they're growing,$50 million in revenue times 10 times 8 is$400 million,$500 million,$600 million. You could probably get a good deal. I think ultimately that product and all these SaaS products that aren't at$500 million are going to be either becoming acquirers of other companies or they're going to be acquired. And we're going to see a lot of roll-ups like IAC and Barry Diller famously did.

37:47A perfect segue to the next thing we're talking about. Menlo partner Didi Doss recently promoted to that role over at Menlo. Tweeted out that he's, quote, met with dozens of slop-as-a-service startups that are making millions of dollars using AI to create an endless stream of blogs for their customers to help them with SEO and GEO. So they're all growing insanely fast. And then he adds, the initiatification of the internet continues. So I was curious, what companies might fit into that bucket? Jasper does AI-generated marketing content, right? Sonic, former YC company, similar thing. Profound had them on the show.

38:21They do GEO and some AI-generated content. The thing is, it seems that everyone agrees with you that this is either gross or in the eyes of many, temporary, that people are essentially taking advantage of a moment in time to make a lot of money. How do founders - I'm gonna go with, yeah, okay, what's your question? Yeah. Oh, how do founders tell the difference? Because people are doing well in the sector, but we also don't like it. So I'm trying to just balance out the two. Yeah, so before dunking on any of these companies, it really depends on how much content and with what type of supervision.

38:54I think a lot of these companies are probably the white hat companies that are saying, hey, we're gonna help you do this in a better way. so that you don't get dinged with a search penalty by Google or Bing or DuckDuckGo. The people who are doing the slop as a service are probably gray and black hat people, or just gray. And they tend to be just shops that you give them some amount of money, they publish all this stuff, then you wind up getting reported to Google as a slop generator. They see your robots.txt, they see your sitemap, and they're like, okay, this is garbage. And it is a moment in time where identifying AI content is going to become easier and easier.

39:40And once they do that and you don't have an author and there's like an authorship tag and that authorship doesn't go back to a social media account of a known person, you're going to start having problems. Google knows who wrote stories. You know, TechMeme, Gabe has done an amazing job of building a database and semantically understanding who is the author of every article. The New York Times, The Washington Post, TechCrunch, all of these publishing companies, Vox, they know how to put the authorship on there. They know how to put the bio of the person. What's going to happen in the age of AI slop is those writers are going to become more valuable.

40:18Those companies that have authorship on them of known people that link to their content, a Substack, for example. If Substack does their job like the New York Times does or Beehive does theirs and they don't allow slop on their platform, then they're gonna move up. So there's gonna be like a slop rating and a known authorship rating that probably exists in some way today on the latter part, which is known authorship. Google knows who the authors are, just like Gabe at TechMeme built that brilliant site where you can now like go see who, not only like who's the author, but who are the top authors with breaking stories by this category.

40:57That data is amazing. I don't know why Google or XAI or somebody doesn't just buy TechMeme for 100 million, call it a day. Not our beloved TechMeme. I mean, yeah, that's true. If they bought it, they probably would screw it up. But that kind of semantic content that he suffered over building that architecture, super valuable today. And so I don't know if Didi is talking about Jasper and Wrightsonic and Profound, but this um ai janitor in marketing content should always be a starting point that humans then clean up i would never let anybody produce you know ai directly to publish on the web for any of our properties and if i caught somebody doing it we did catch some people retroactively doing it man that would be like instant firing and now every company is going to need to have these rules no AI slop, do not post AI content.

41:52Really, really bad. And we had a story last week, didn't we? About how people feel about work slop. Yeah. So this is becoming a significant issue. People are now hating droids. They don't like the droids. They don't want them in their bar, like in Star Wars. We don't accept your kind here. That's what's happening is people are going to start fighting for humans. And Spotify is going to have to make a decision. Substack is going to need to make a decision. Everybody's going to need to make a decision. Do we want to be a slop shop or do we want to say humans only in here? Yeah, I saw on a heavy metal subreddit that I frequent, there was an AI generated band that people were discussing and it was the metal core subgenre and people were calling it clanker core.

42:37Clanker being a meat space slur for our digital friends, I guess. I don't know how to phrase that. But this is becoming an issue across every single place. I just don't think we're ever gonna be able to fully replace humans trying to reach out to humans by putting robots in place of humans doing the actual outreach. But for now, Clankers were actually battle droids in Star Wars. So you remember those stupid droids in like Attack of the Clones that had the weird heads and Jedi would like kill them a hundred at a time. Those were called Clankers by Jedi and by, yeah. Were those the ones that had the bubble that went over them in the Jar Jar movie?

43:12Yes. Oh, okay. Jar Jar movie. Yes, they were. Thank you. Yeah. Those are clankers, specific type of droid. Oh, well, I didn't realize it was a Star Wars reference. Yes, no, yeah, they should look like a banana. Yeah. Yeah, clone troopers hated them. Yeah. So, Jason, we have a couple of companies that we might add to the Twist 500 today. The first one's called Fia. This is known for its founder, Phoebe Gates, has raised money from people like Kleiner Perkins, Kris Jenner, and Hayley Bieber. It's doing quite well. It's a consumer AI breakout, raised$8 million. It's working on helping people find fashion at an attractive price.

43:45Not really my domain, but I think people are going to be interested in it. Yeah, it's a Chrome browser extension. People love shopping. I think it's a good candidate for consideration before we add it to the Twist 500. I would want to see who the contemporary set is. So when we do the Twist 500 process, we should look for FIA competitors, established ones and new ones. I think many of the larger LLMs are now incorporating shopping. Specifically, we've got to look at FIA in the context of what Google Shopping is doing. That would be very interesting. And just compare side by side the results and ask yourself, hey, is the FIA result a better experience?

44:28Does it have better content than a Gemini search, which is basically Google Shopping? that's the way you know a venture capitalist would do their diligence on these kind of products is side-by-side comparison of the results take out the logos take out the you know the accoutrement of the interface which still counts and just say what did you what blazer did you tell me to get if i described i want a blazer between 500 and 1500 that looks great and it's classic for when I go to Nantucket, you know, in the fall for a wedding, boom, and just do those side by side. The second one, Hux, you know, this competes a bit with OpenAI's Pulse or what I used to do at Inside, like the Inside Daily Brief, we would just do a short summary of news.

45:12People liked it. But what I found was, you know, with news products, we've never had a news app, never had a news app in the United States reach critical mass. You have to ask yourself why that is. And it turns out people consume news in Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, slash X, Facebook. Those are the places people go for news. And it's incredibly hard to build a product that is two, three, four times better than that experience. What you can build is communities in verticals. But I think Hux like what I did at Inside with apps or there was, gosh, What were the news apps at the time? Pulse was a news app.

45:56There were, Circa was a news app I had invested in. Oh, Circa. Oh, I forgot about Circa. All this really interesting cohort because there was something called Smarter News in Asia and Smarter News became really - I think it was Smart News or Smarter News app. Let me take a look here. Smart News, you're right. And Smart News in Asia became something where people just lived on it. It was so popular. But again, in the United States, yeah. One last thing before we move on here, regarding FIA and e-commerce and the large AI model companies and who's going to win. While we were recording today, so this isn't actually in the docket, OpenAI announced that they're going to put out Buy It in Chat GPT, Instant Checkout, and the Agentic Commerce Protocol, working with Shopify and I believe Stripe as well.

46:47So there's quite a lot of movement in that space. I think they really want to bring e-commerce into ChatGPT because that's a way to make a lot of money. But yeah, a space to watch, and we'll keep an eye on it. And last week we talked about ads coming to ChatGPT. So, you know, Sam Altman watched Web 2.0 to today, you know, worked at and ran Y Combinator for a bit. He understands monetization comes like just three or four different ways. Consumers can pay you for the product. Advertisers can pay for the consumer's product. or transactions can pay for the product. And I would be surprised if you wouldn't do all three of those in a product at scale like ChatGPT is.

47:28Yeah. Next up, Jason, we're going to talk about main character energy and perhaps no one has more of that recently than Tai Lopez. This is a well-known YouTuber who was busted by the SEC because along with his partners, Alex Mayer and Maya Birkenrode, they ran a Ponzi scheme that involved raising money to buy distressed e-commerce brands and turning them into money pits, as far as I can tell. They raised hundreds of millions of dollars and between 2020 and 2022, their holding company called REV, or REV, cheated. And they got busted by the SEC and they're in quite a lot of trouble. What's funny about this - This is all allegedly, this is what the SEC alleges.

48:07Yes. They ran a Ponzi, just so we're super clear here. I appreciate that. Keeping me out of trouble one year at a time. The reason why this is somewhat humorous, even though, of course, fraud's never funny and financial crimes are bad, is because the man in question, Mr. Lopez, did things like this. Jason, I don't think I can improve on his own words. Check this out. Here in my garage, just bought this new Lamborghini here. It's fun to drive up here in the Hollywood Hills. But you know what I like a lot more than materialistic things? I don't know. Tell me. Knowledge. Yeah, me too. In fact, I'm a lot more proud of these seven new bookshelves that I had to get installed to hold 2 ,000 new books that I bought.

48:49Okay. I don't know how to improve on that. That's like a bite-sized... It's the amooj-boosh of YouTube. I'm super aware of this because when I was doing my pilot for NBC that never got on air and then another reality TV group wanted me to do a show, they brought up Tai Lopez in both, no, in one of them, it's come up like two or three times, actually, when, you know, I've talked to CNBC about doing shows, whatever, everybody. And Tai Lopez's name would come up and they would be like, what do you think of Tai Lopez? And I was like, I'm sorry, who? And they would be like, this guy. And I was like, oh, I think he's selling courses or MLMs, you know, multi-level marketing products and all of those courses and stuff like that.

49:37I was always like, oh God, I hope I don't ever get perceived as somebody with a course because we have Founder University and Angel University. In both cases, Founder University is free to founders as long as they show up. They can't take the seat and not show up. And then Angel University, I think we charge like 500 bucks and all the proceeds go to charity and we've given 200 ,000 to charity. Obviously, I don't need to do courses to make money, but it's always a red flag for me when a rich person with Lamborghinis and gosh, 2000 books and seven bookshelves, you know, needs to make money off poor people with a course.

50:16That's always like a bit of a red flag. So yeah. And then it was always very weird, like people buying Pier One imports or, you know, Radio Shack, these logos. Cause I did, I do remember in Radio Shack went up for auction, somebody was like, Hey, should we buy this or whatever? And one of my group chats and I was like, what would be the plan? Because Radio Shack means something to a small niche audience of Gen Xers or older who used to use soldering irons. You know, those people are all going to be gone. Like, what would you do with it? And I brainstormed with somebody what to do with it. And the best I could come up with was like Maker.

50:54You remember that magazine and event series Maker that Tim Tim O 'Reilly had sort of done. I was like, make it into a maker space. Yeah. Sell all that stuff in the back or in the front rather. And then in the back, just have classes and let people bring their kids there for STEM classes and how to learn how to build circuit boards or whatever. But yeah, that's not surprisingly, I'm not surprised by any of this Tai Lopez stuff. every time you see these people, you should just run. It's really gross. A couple more red flags here because the Lamborghini part of this is humorous. Yes, if someone's showing off their Lamborghini to make them seem like a person of great business acumen, what they're really showing you is their ability to pay depreciation on an asset that's not even very drivable.

51:46Also, the company, REV, was promising people a 25 % annual return and a 2 % preferred dividend. No, that's never going to be the case. No one's ever going to offer you that kind of guaranteed return. It's fraud. And Jason, they did use some of the money to pay back newer, sorry, older investors. They used newer investor money for that. They stole allegedly 16.1 million for their personal use, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I don't think humans are ever going to stop falling for Ponzi schemes, but we can at least highlight them when they touch on our space. And this was a pool of investment opportunity into e-commerce, so it kind of lands in our domain.

52:22It's fraud, folks. Yeah. I guess that's Madoff style, right? The new investors were paying off the old ones who were trying to redeem their shares. Startups are hard, and you need to have diversification. I wrote a book called Angel. It's super honest about how hard this is. If you're going to do it, you need to put in 20 hours a week for, call it three, four, five years during your primary investing. You're going to need to meet with 50 to 100 startups for everyone you put a small check into. And of your 20, 30, 40, or 50 startups in your portfolio, be prepared for 80 % to go to zero very quickly within the first three years.

53:03That's called the J curve. And then if you decide you want to be at this long term, you're going to have to have a strategy for exiting those investments. That typically takes 10 to 15 years. So it's an amazing career if you love startups, if you love entrepreneurship and, um, you know, you're retired with a bunch of money. I think it's like one of the great jobs being an angel investor for successful accredited investors. But I, we, we tell them in the angel university course, which is based on the book angel. And like the book is like 10 bucks or 20 bucks. So like, it's the greatest deal in the world.

53:39If you decide not to become an angel investor because I scared the shit out of you in the book, which I try to do. Great. And if you decide to become one, you basically get everything I learned up until that point, 15 or 20 bucks, you can go resell the book for half that amount. And of course you seven bucks. Books are incredible in that way. And so, yeah, it's like, these are very hard pursuits and anybody who, like, I see this guy, Grant Cardone, all the time on like CNBC or this whole cohort of people selling courses or access to real estate, access to startups. And I run a syndicate as well.

54:17When we do the syndicate.com, it's only for accredited investors, no retail. You have to be sophisticated, basically, or have inherited a bunch of money or won the lottery. And in all those cases, you should only invest money you can afford to lose. So I always tell people like with crypto or startups, if you're a credited investor, less than 5 % of your net worth, let's say your net worth was$10 million, you put$500K into crypto. Let's say you lost it all. Well, the other part of your portfolio should be making 7 % a year. So in one year, you've made up for your mistakes in crypto. If you were going to retire in five years, that would not be good.

54:56But if you were retiring in 20 or 30 years, that would be just fine. You can weather the storm. So just 1%, 2%, maybe even 100K, 200K, and be thoughtful about it, folks. Always my best advice. Yeah, I was just Googling Grant Cardone because I forgot who that was. And one of the first pictures that came up was him standing in front of a private jet, which in my experience, Jason, people who have private jets don't do. There's like two rules. There's three rules of private jets. I know there's four. I can tell you these. Number one, don't be late. I was like an hour late for a jet with Shamath. He still tells the story.

55:29um it was this it was my fault because i was like i have a speaking gig and i'll go to toronto with you to interview you for this other shopify thing or whatever but i'm leaving the shopping this gig here i gotta get all the way to san joseph like don't worry about it if we're late we can go and it was like i hit massive traffic and we did have to divert from one airport to the other bummer uh second thing second thing you don't take pictures or talk about it that's what i'm saying Third thing, you let the principal decide where they're going to sit first. So you come in, you place your bag somewhere neutral.

56:04You don't sit down. You wait for the principal to pick their seat, which is typically if you go in, if there's like a four top in the front, like four seats, no table, it would be the right one facing forward. That's where the principal sits typically, in my experience. So you can sit to the left if you're having a conversation with them or cross from them if they don't want to spread their feet out or catty-quarter to them. Or you sit at the table back there if they want to have privacy. So you just say, hey, where do you want me to sit? You got a preference? You just say that. Yeah, because they're paying for it.

56:33Well, yes, it's like being in somebody's car, you know, or their house. Like you don't just go into the master suite and you're like, I'll stay here. It's the biggest bet. And number four, you have to read the room. Is the principal, is the owner of the plane like reading the newspaper or doing work can put their headphones on, or are they like, hey, how was your day? And they wanna talk. So read the room. Especially if it's a long flight. Like if you're going to Japan, or if you're going to Europe, this is like a 10 hour flight. You can just say, do you have a plan for sleeping or eating? Let me know, whatever.

57:10Or you just read the room and just read the vibes. And just say, where do you want me? Boom, that's it. But part two, or point two that you just said is you don't talk about it. You don't talk about private education. Yeah. So if someone's trying to show you their Lamborghini or them in front of a private jet, red flags, folks. I have been, if I'm being totally honest, looking at planes. So there is that. I may throw all these out and I might take you to Vegas with me at some point or drop you off in New York on my way back. But I have been looking at private jets and I just can't do it. I have not been able to pull the trigger on only because I'm just still cheap.

57:49I still think like a poor person. So I was like, I don't know, man, that seems really expensive. I mean, on the wall of my childhood bedroom, I had a sales brochure that I procured from DeSau Falcon of their 900 EX jet. Oh, that's a great jet. A lot of my friends have Falcons and the Falcon is just also very good per hour operating costs. But the two I like are the Phenom 300 and the Pilatus PC24. And there are companies that let you either do a fractional ownership, you can own an eighth, a fourth or whatever, or you can just buy a jet card for essentially 10K an hour is what it comes out to end of the day.

58:29So, you know, if I spend, I don't know, 500K every two years of 25 hours, I can do three trips or two trips or whatever it is, you know, cross country or maybe three regional trips a year, but I don't need it. And I like walking through the airport, Alex. You know why? People stop you and say, Jason Calacanis, I love people. And I love talking to people. I cannot tell you how many friendships or catch up meetings I've had in airports. I like walking through the airport. I love going on Emirates airline. In the back, they have a lounge. After I get settled in my seat, I take the business class.

59:04I don't take the first class, as you heard on All In this weekend. And the first thing I do is I take my laptop. I go to the back. There's a lounge. There's like a four top table, like a diner table. And I sit there with my laptop and I, you know, I get served, you know, some croissant and an espresso and I work. And then people come back and they're like, oh, Jason Galganis. I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, what do you do? And they're like, oh, I'm like, want to sit and join me? And people are like, are you that guy? Are you weird? I'm like, just love people. So if you see me out, folks, I love people.

59:32I love people. If you have courtside seats to a Knicks game, I'll go. I don't even need to know you. This week in startups, Founder University, Launch Accelerator. I'm at Jason. He's at Alex. Email me anytime if you got a great idea for a company. Jason at Calacanis.com. Launch.co slash apply. If you want to apply for a meeting with my amazing team and get that process started, Founder.university is starting in MENA. But I think we picked all the companies. I don't know if you can still apply. uh mina dot i go to founding university you'll see the mina link at the top and founding university we do it three times a year here in the u.s see you next time everybody bye bye bye