In short
Why commercial real estate credit (especially CMBS) may be overlooked and undervalued despite generally low bond risk premiums. Andrew Sheets argues that rising bond yields have pulled flows into fixed income, compressing risk premiums in most markets, but CMBS spreads remain unusually high versus long-run averages.
Guest backgrounds
No guest is mentioned; host is Andrew Sheets, Global Head of Fixed Income Research at Morgan Stanley.
Key claims
CMBS spreads are higher than typical; commercial property challenges (office, apartments, retail) are real but not new; worst fears in early 2023 didn’t trigger broader banking-system damage; fundamentals are improving.
Notable examples
Office value slump from work-from-home fears; apartment pressure from low-rate-era supply; retail concerns from online shopping; U.S. transaction volumes +27% YoY in Q1, prices +5%, commercial debt origination +40% YoY, distressed deals down for first quarterly decline since early 2023.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOUnderstanding Commercial Real Estate Debt
0:15 to 1:54
Explore how commercial real estate debt is currently undervalued and its implications.
“Bond yields have risen this year, and it's attracting strong flows into fixed income markets.”
Challenges and Recovery in Commercial Property
1:54 to 3:00
Discuss the recent challenges faced by commercial properties and signs of recovery.
“Indeed, investors may recall that fears around commercial property peaked way back in early 2023, following significant rate hikes by the Federal Reserve.”
Impact of Supply and Demand
3:00 to 3:35
Understand how supply constraints are supporting the value of existing properties.
“Part of this recovery in the commercial real estate market may be explained by U.S.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Andrew Sheets:Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Andrew Sheets, Global Head of Fixed Income Research at Morgan Stanley. Today, why commercial real estate debt could be overlooked and undervalued. It's Friday, May 29th at 2 p.m. in London. Bond yields have risen this year, and it's attracting strong flows into fixed income markets. The problem is that all of that demand is narrowing the risk premium that one receives. Spreads on U.S. mortgage bonds are richer than 89 % of observations over the last 20 years. Spreads on the U.S. high-yield market, well, they're richer than 96 % of the time. And spreads on U.S.
0:41Andrew Sheets:investment grade, it's 99%. We live in a world where the risk premium on most bonds is very low versus history. But there are exceptions. One is debt-backed by commercial mortgages, or so-called CMBS. Spreads here, notably and unusually, are significantly higher than the long-run average. It is a market that we like. Commercial property is largely comprised of lending against office buildings, apartments, retail complexes, and industrial sites like warehouses. The first three have faced major challenges over the last five years. Office values have slumped as investors feared more people working from home.
1:22Andrew Sheets:Apartments have suffered from significant supply in building, conceived in a low-rate world, as this has come online. And retail has faced long-run concern about the trend of more online shopping. And the rise of interest rates, well, that's loomed over everything. A building, in a lot of ways, is a lot like a bond, promising a dependable stream of rents over time. When an investor can get that stream of cash flows from the bond market, commercial property prices must adjust lower to remain competitive. These challenges are material, but they are also not new. Indeed, investors may recall that fears around commercial property peaked way back in early 2023, following significant rate hikes by the Federal Reserve.
2:08Andrew Sheets:Back then, there were widespread fears that commercial property weakness would ricochet back and threaten the banking system. Three years later, those worst fears have not been realized. And while defaults and restructurings have happened, overall commercial property fundamentals are beginning to pick back up. Commercial property transaction volumes increased 27 % in the U.S. in the first quarter relative to a year prior, and prices are rising, up about 5 % over the same period. The amount of commercial real estate debt being originated is up about 40 % over the last year, a sign that lenders are coming back.
2:47Andrew Sheets:And the number of commercial deals that are becoming distressed and unable to pay their bills, they just saw their first quarterly decline since all of those problems in early 2023. Part of this recovery in the commercial real estate market may be explained by U.S. growth, which continues to be resilient. And some of it mirrors other cycles. When rates rose and commercial lending markets weakened, the construction of new properties really slowed down. It takes several years to build a building. And so it's only now that the impact of everything that was not built is starting to be felt. With less supply coming online, the value of existing property is better supported, especially relative to the more elevated risk premiums on offer for its debt.
3:35Andrew Sheets:Thank you, as always, for your time. If you find Thoughts of the Market useful, let us know by leaving a review wherever you listen, and also tell a friend or colleague about us today. The preceding content is informational only and based on information available when created. It is not an offer or solicitation, nor is it tax or legal advice. It does not consider your financial circumstances and objectives and may not be suitable for you.
From the publisher
Commercial real estate debt is now one of the market’s most avoided asset classes. Our Global Head of Fixed Income Research Andrew Sheets explains why there may be an opportunity to invest in those securities.
Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.
----- Transcript -----
Andrew Sheets: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Andrew Sheets, Global Head of Fixed Income Research at Morgan Stanley.
Today, why commercial real estate debt could be overlooked and undervalued.
It's Friday, May 29th at 2pm in London.
Bond yields have risen this year, and it's attracting strong flows into fixed income markets. The problem is that all of that demand is narrowing the risk premium that one receives. Spreads on U.S. mortgage bonds are richer than 89 percent of observations over the last 20 years. Spreads on the U.S. high yield market, well, they're richer than 96 percent of the time. And spreads on U.S. investment grade, it's 99 percent.
We live in a world where the risk premium on most bonds is very low versus history, but there are exceptions. One is debt backed by commercial mortgages or so-called CMBS. Spreads here, notably and unusually, are significantly higher than the long run average. It is a market that we like.
Commercial property is largely comprised of lending against office buildings, apartments, retail complexes, and industrial sites like warehouses. The first three have faced major challenges over the last five years.
Office values have slumped as investors feared more people working from home. Apartments have suffered from significant supply in building, conceived in a low-rate world as this has come online. And retail has faced long-run concern about the trend of more online shopping. And the rise of interest rates, well, that's loomed over everything.
A building, in a lot of ways, is a lot like a bond, promising a dependable stream of rents over time. When an investor can get that stream of cash flows from the bond market, commercial property prices must adjust lower to remain competitive.
These challenges are material, but they are also not new. Indeed, investors may recall that fears around commercial property peaked way back in early 2023 following significant rate hikes by the Federal Reserve. Back then, there were widespread fears that commercial property weakness would ricochet back and threaten the banking system.
Three years later, those worst fears have not been realized. And while defaults and restructurings have happened, overall commercial property fundamentals are beginning to pick back up.
Commercial property transaction volumes increased 27 percent in the U.S. in the first quarter relative to a year prior; and prices are rising, up about 5 percent over the same period. The amount of commercial real estate debt being originated is up about 40 percent over the last year – a sign that lenders are coming back. And the number of commercial deals that are becoming distressed and unable to pay their bills, they just saw their first quarterly decline since all of those problems in early 2023.
Part of this recovery in the commercial real estate market may be explained by U.S. growth, which continues to be resilient, and some of it mirrors other cycles.
When rates rose and commercial lending markets weakened, the construction of new properties really slowed down. It takes several years to build a building, and so it's only now that the impact of everything that was not built is starting to be felt.
With less supply coming online, the value of existing property is better supported, especially relative to the more elevated risk premiums on offer for its debt.
Thank you, as always, for your time. If you find Thoughts on the Market useful, let us know by leaving a review wherever you listen. And also tell a friend or colleague about us today.
