In short
How AI buildout, energy infrastructure, geopolitics, and industrial investment compete for scarce power, labor, equipment, and capital—creating constraints that can delay projects, raise costs, and redirect spending; plus how investors should evaluate resilience and financing flexibility.
Guests
Michelle Weaver (Morgan Stanley U.S. thematic and equity strategist); Michael Zezas (co-director, Morgan Stanley Institute; deputy global head of Morgan Stanley Research); Jessica Alsford (chief sustainability officer; co-director, Morgan Stanley Institute).
Key claims
Geopolitical shocks are now “norm,” driving industrial policy and higher trade barriers; companies must map dependencies, diversify, and pay extra for resilience. AI is constrained by energy—Morgan Stanley estimates ~40 GW power shortfall for data centers. Grid connections can take years, so multiple power sources (gas, nuclear, renewables, storage, microgrids) are needed.
Notable examples
Iran, Ukraine, Venezuela; data center power needs; founders extending fundraising timelines and using private credit/structured equity/tender offers.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOCurrent Investor Challenges
0:45 to 2:33
Discussion on the competing investment cycles and constraints investors face.
“Mike, what's one of the questions that you think investors are wrestling with the most right now?”
Intersection of AI, Energy, and Geopolitics
2:33 to 4:25
Exploring how AI, energy, and geopolitics are interconnected and impact investment.
“is less interested than it used to be in preserving global security and trade standards.”
Strategic Planning for Power Constraints
4:25 to 6:47
How power availability influences investment strategies and planning.
“And it looks like there won't be one universal solution.”
Resilience Amidst Constraints
6:47 to 7:46
Strategies for companies and investors to adapt to evolving market conditions.
“And I think importantly, what the reasons would be for any of those things happening.”
AI Adoption Trends
7:46 to 8:02
Insight into the growing quantification of AI benefits by companies.
“One analysis we did recently shows that around 25 % of S &P companies are now quantifying the benefits they're seeing from AI adoption.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Michelle Weaver, Morgan Stanley's U.S. thematic and equity strategist.
0:05Michael Zezas:I'm Michael Zezas, co-director of the Morgan Stanley Institute and deputy global head of Morgan Stanley Research. And I'm Jessica Alsford, Morgan Stanley's chief sustainability officer and also co-director of the Morgan Stanley Institute. Today, how AI, energy, geopolitics and industrial investment are competing for scarce resources and what that competition could mean for markets. It's Friday, July 31st at 10 a.m. in New York. and 3 p.m. in London. Mike and Jess, as co-directors, you speak with people across the firm to identify the biggest questions facing companies and investors, especially the important ones that may not have clear answers yet, and to understand how those questions are shaping client conversations.
0:49Mike, what's one of the questions that you think investors are wrestling with the most right now?
0:54Michael Zezas:So one of the biggest questions is how several major investment cycles can happen at the same time. AI, energy infrastructure, manufacturing, and defense may all be competing for the same power, the same skilled labor, equipment, and capital. So investors need to look beyond each theme in isolation and ask where constraints could delay projects, raise costs, or redirect spending, and which companies are best positioned to manage all of that. Since the Institute began, you've examined a number of topics, including AI, energy resilience, and geopolitical fragmentation, just to name a few. Jess, which topic has been the most compelling to you?
1:35It's difficult to pick one because to be honest, for me, it's really the way that AI, energy resilience, and geopolitics have all really become one story. If you think about the energy transition, which has been playing out for a number of years, but now we also have the AI build out. And that depends on reliable and affordable power. And then geopolitical shocks, which are demonstrating the need for countries to have energy security. So if you put all of this together, and you can really see that there is a huge need to scale the global energy system, but using all types of power available to us, including renewables and nuclear.
2:15Mike, how is that intersection that Jess spoke about between AI, energy and geopolitics, altering the way that companies are thinking about investing.
2:23Michael Zezas:So geopolitical shocks, they're more norm than exception now. The situations in Iran, Ukraine, Venezuela, they all reflect an evolving international order where the U.S. is less interested than it used to be in preserving global security and trade standards. And that's a particular problem in a world where companies and governments spent much of the last 50 years optimizing to benefit from globalization. So basically looking for the lowest cost way to produce things, sourcing materials and labor in the most efficient way possible, presuming that the frictions in international goods and services trade would just keep getting lower.
3:04Michael Zezas:That's obviously not the case now. And whether it's a good idea or not, the trend is toward governments leaning into industrial policy to prioritize supply chain security and protect whatever it sees as their national competitive advantages. And really, that's correlated with higher trade barriers. So that means that while companies are still focused on efficiency, they have to build resilience through more regional supply chains, greater redundancy, and investment in strategically important capacity. So the practical message from our teams is to map critical dependencies, diversify where possible and be realistic about the extra cost of resilience rather than assuming the old globalization model will simply return.
3:51One of the clearest constraints on the AI build out is energy. Our thematic research team is estimating a nearly 40 gigawatt shortfall in power needed for data centers. For context, this is multiple New York's worth of power. Jess, how significant of a limiting factor is power becoming? Power is definitely becoming a strategic constraint. If you think about grid connections, these can take years to set up. And so access to power really is going to determine where facilities are built and how quickly they're able to come online. And it looks like there won't be one universal solution. You've got natural gas, nuclear, renewables, storage, microgrids.
4:34They're all going to need to play a role. And for companies, that means that they really are going to have to be planning power alongside the site and financing. For investors, it means focusing on reliability, affordability and permitting, not just headline demand. So AI, energy and geopolitics can no longer be considered in isolation. As countries and companies rethink where they source, build and invest, where do you see the biggest opportunities emerging? The opportunities likely to be broader than any single sector, to be honest. And the Institute has shown that capital really needs to be flowing towards more resilient supply chains, as well as new productive capacity, and also the infrastructure that supports both of these.
5:17And this covers power, grids, automation, logistics, as well as data. I'd also say that location matters too, and companies need to be able to weigh political stability, as well as skilled labor, reliable energy and policy support. And investors should be looking for markets and businesses that can turn those advantages into durable returns. The Institute has also looked at founders as a source of economic information. Jess, what can their decisions reveal before those changes appear in traditional economic data? So founders are often making decisions at the leading edge of growth and capital formation.
5:56And so their behavior can provide an early read on both risk appetite and also financing conditions. If we take the current macro environment as an example of this, the Institute has shown that many founders are adapting rather than simply waiting. And this means extending fundraising timelines, broadening investor conversations, and considering private credit, structured equity, or tender offers. For companies, the takeaway really is to preserve financing flexibility. And for investors, it's to watch how those choices can reshape private market liquidity. Mike, to bring this back to where we started, if power, labor and capital are all becoming more constrained, what should investors be watching most closely?
6:41Michael Zezas:Yeah, I'd watch whether capital spending plans are being delayed or resized or redirected in some way. And I think importantly, what the reasons would be for any of those things happening. Is there a constraint around power or labor or equipment permitting or financing? Those details help distinguish whether you'd be looking at temporary setbacks or a structural shift. So something that would signal that we've built too much capacity in AI or manufacturing relative to demand. And that's the type of thing that would be a real headwind to the economic outlook and potentially create problems in the credit markets.
7:20Michael Zezas:But to be clear, we don't see demand flagging anytime soon. And so for investors, it's less about whether to be bullish or bearish on the outlook for the markets and the economy. And it's more about looking for companies that are durable beneficiaries of these trends. So those are ones with secure inputs, flexible balance sheets and realistic return thresholds. Absolutely. As Mike said, we don't see demand slowing and we're seeing a lot of encouraging data points around AI adoption. One analysis we did recently shows that around 25 % of S &P companies are now quantifying the benefits they're seeing from AI adoption.
7:58And this diffusion story is only going to continue to grow. Mike, Jess, thanks for joining me.
8:04Michael Zezas:Thanks, Michelle. It's great speaking with you both. And to our listeners, thanks for tuning in. If this is all piquing your interest, you can find the Institute's articles, roundtables, and future work on Morgan Stanley's website. and as always if you enjoy thoughts on the market please leave us a review and share the podcast with a friend or colleague the preceding content is informational only and based on information available when created it is not an offer or solicitation nor is it tax or legal advice it does not consider your financial circumstances and objectives and may not be suitable for you
From the publisher
Our Strategist Michelle Weaver talks to Michael Zezas and Jessica Alsford, Co-Directors of the Morgan Stanley Institute, about how AI, energy resilience and industrial policy are changing investment decisions.
Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.
----- Transcript -----
Michelle Weaver: Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Michelle Weaver, Morgan Stanley's U.S. Thematic and Equity Strategist.
Michael Zezas: I'm Michael Zezas, co-director of the Morgan Stanley Institute and Deputy Global Head of Morgan Stanley Research.
Jessica Alsford: And I'm Jessica Alsford, Morgan Stanley's Chief Sustainability Officer, and also co-director of the Morgan Stanley Institute.
Michelle Weaver: Today: how AI, energy, geopolitics, and industrial investment are competing for scarce resources – and what that competition could mean for markets.
It's Friday, July 31st at 10am in New York.
Jessica Alsford: And 3 pm in London.
Michelle Weaver: Mike and Jess, as co-directors, you speak with people across the firm to identify the biggest questions facing companies and investors, especially the important ones that may not have clear answers yet. And to understand how those questions are shaping client conversations.
Mike, what's one of the questions that you think investors are wrestling with the most right now?
Michael Zezas: So, one of the biggest questions is how several major investment cycles can happen at the same time. AI, energy infrastructure, manufacturing, and defense may all be competing for the same power, the same skilled labor, equipment, and capital.
So, investors need to look beyond each theme in isolation and ask where constraints could delay projects, raise costs, or redirect spending, and which companies are best positioned to manage all of that.
Michelle Weaver: Since the institute began, you've examined a number of topics, including AI, energy resilience, and geopolitical fragmentation, just to name a few. Jess, which topic has been the most compelling to you?
Jessica Alsford: It's difficult to pick one because, to be honest, for me, it's really the way that AI, energy resilience, and geopolitics have all really become one story. If you think about the energy transition, which has been playing out for a number of years. But now we also have the AI build-out, and that depends on reliable and affordable power. And then geopolitical shocks, which are demonstrating the need for countries to have energy security.
So, if you put all of this together and you can really see that there is a huge need to scale the global energy system, but using all types of power available to us, including renewables and nuclear.
Michelle Weaver: Mike, how is that intersection that Jess spoke about between AI, energy, and geopolitics altering the way that companies are thinking about investing?
Michael Zezas: So, geopolitical shocks, they're more norm than exception now. The situations in Iran, Ukraine, Venezuela, they all reflect an evolving international order where the U.S. is less interested than it used to be in preserving global security and trade standards.
And that's a particular problem in a world where companies and governments spent much of the last 50 years optimizing to benefit from globalization. So basically, looking for the lowest cost way to produce things, sourcing materials and labor in the most efficient way possible, presuming that the frictions in international goods and services trade would just keep getting lower.
That's obviously not the case now, and whether it's a good idea or not, the trend is toward governments leaning into industrial policy to prioritize supply chain security and protect whatever it sees as their national competitive advantages. And really that's correlated with higher trade barriers.
So, that means that while companies are still focused on efficiency, they have to build resilience through more regional supply chains, greater redundancy, and investment in strategically important capacity. So, the practical message from our teams is to map critical dependencies, diversify where possible, and be realistic about the extra cost of resilience rather than assuming the old globalization model will simply return.
Michelle Weaver: One of the clearest constraints on the AI build-out is energy. Our thematic research team is estimating a nearly 40-gigawatt shortfall in power needed for data centers. For context, this is multiple New Yorks worth of power.
Jess, how significant of a limiting factor is power becoming?
Jessica Alsford: Power is definitely becoming a strategic constraint. If you think about grid connections, these can take years to set up. And so, access to power really is going to determine where facilities are built and how quickly they're able to come online. And it looks like there won't be one universal solution.
You've got natural gas, nuclear, renewables, storage, microgrids. They're all going to need to play a role. And for companies, that means that they really are going to have to be planning power alongside the site and financing. For investors, it means focusing on reliability, affordability, and permitting, not just headline demand.
Michelle Weaver: So, AI, energy, and geopolitics can no longer be considered in isolation. As countries and companies rethink where they source, build, and invest, where do you see the biggest opportunities emerging?
Jessica Alsford: The opportunity is likely to be broader than any single sector, to be honest. and the institute has shown that capital really needs to be flowing towards more resilient supply chains as well as new productive capacity and also the infrastructure that supports both of these. And this covers power, grids, automation, logistics, as well as data.
I'd also say that location matters, too. And companies need to be able to weigh political stability as well as skilled labor, reliable energy, and policy support. And investors should be looking for markets and businesses that can turn those advantages into durable returns.
Michelle Weaver: The institute has also looked at founders as a source of economic information. Jess, what can their decisions reveal before those changes appear in traditional economic data?
Jessica Alsford: So, founders are often making decisions at the leading edge of growth and capital formation, and so their behavior can provide an early read on both at-risk appetite and also financing conditions.
If we take the current macro environment as an example of this, the institute has shown that many founders are adapting rather than simply waiting, and this means extending fundraising timelines, spawning investor conversations, and considering private credit, structured equity or tender offers.
For companies, the takeaway really is to preserve financing flexibility. And for investors, it's to watch how those choices can reshape private market liquidity.
Michelle Weaver: Mike, to bring this back to where we started, if power, labor, and capital are all becoming more constrained, what should investors be watching most closely?
Michael Zezas: Yeah. I'd watch whether capital spending plans are being delayed or resized or redirected in some way, and I think importantly, what the reasons would be for any of those things happening.
Is there a constraint around power or labor or equipment permitting or financing? Those details help distinguish whether you'd be looking at temporary setbacks or a structural shift. So, something that would signal that we've built too much capacity in AI or manufacturing relative to demand. And that's the type of thing that would be a real headwind to the economic outlook and potentially create problems in the credit markets.
But to be clear, we don't see demand flagging anytime soon. And so, for investors, it's less about whether to be bullish or bearish on the outlook for the markets and the economy, and it's more about looking for companies that are durable beneficiaries of these trends. So those are ones with secure inputs, flexible balance sheets, and realistic return thresholds.
Michelle Weaver: Absolutely. As Mike said, we don't see demand slowing, and we're seeing a lot of encouraging data points around AI adoption. One analysis we did recently shows that around 25 percent of S&P companies are now quantifying the benefits they're seeing from AI adoption. And this diffusion story is only going to continue to grow.
Mike, Jess, thanks for joining me.
Michael Zezas: Thanks Michelle.
Jessica Alsford: It’s great speaking with you both.
Michelle Weaver: And to our listeners, thanks for tuning in. If this is all piquing your interest, you can find the institute's articles, roundtables, and future work on Morgan Stanley's website. And as always, if you enjoy Thoughts on the Market, please leave us a review and share the podcast with a friend or colleague.