In short
“Walking a Narrow Economic Path” discusses September market risks tied to the Fed’s planned interest-rate cuts despite U.S. inflation above target and historically large government borrowing. The episode frames a narrow path: rate cuts justified by labor weakness versus investor preference for a not-too-weak economy, with implications for credit.
Guest backgrounds
No guests. Host is Andrew Sheets, Head of Corporate Credit Research at Morgan Stanley.
Key claims
Fed cuts are driven by concern the labor market is weakening; job growth fell from ~200k/month (2023–24) to ~85k/month in 2024, with further data due soon.
Notable examples
“Best” markets when Fed cuts while growth holds up (mid-1990s); “worst” when Fed cuts as the economy weakens. Forecast mentioned: Friday jobs report ~70k jobs and stable unemployment.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VONavigating Economic Uncertainty
0:18 to 3:06
Explore the balance between interest rates, labor market data, and investor sentiment.
“September is a month of change and one of my favorite times of the year.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Andrew Sheets:Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Andrew Sheets, Head of Corporate Credit Research at Morgan Stanley. Today, the narrow economic path the markets face as we come back from summer. It's Thursday, September 4th at 2 p.m. in London. September is a month of change and one of my favorite times of the year. The weather gets just a little crisper. Kids go back to school. Football, both kinds, are back on TV. and financial markets return from the summer in earnest, quickly ramping back up to full speed. This year, September brings a number of robust debates that we'll be covering on this podcast.
0:40Andrew Sheets:But chief among these might be exactly how strong or not investors actually want the economy to be. You see, at the moment, the Federal Reserve is set to lower interest rates. And they're set to do that even though inflation in the U.S. is still well above target and it's moving higher. That's unusual, and it's made even more unusual in the context of financial conditions being very easy and the U.S. government borrowing a historically large amount of money. The Fed's reason to lower interest rates, despite strong markets, elevated inflation, and high budget deficits, is the concern that the U.S.
1:18Andrew Sheets:labor market is weakening. And this fear is not unfounded. U.S. job growth has recently slowed sharply. In 2023 and 2024, the U.S. was adding on average about 200 ,000 jobs every month. But this year, job growth has been less than half that amount, just 85 ,000 per month. And the most recent data is even worse. Tomorrow brings another important update. But here's the rub. The Fed, in theory, is lowering rates because the labor market is weaker. Markets would like those lower rates. But investors would not like a significantly weaker economy. And this logic is borne out pretty starkly in history.
1:58Andrew Sheets:When the Fed is lowering interest rates as growth holds up, that represents some of the best ever market environments, including the mid-1990s. But when the Fed lowers rates as the economy weakens, well, that represents some of the worst. So as the leaves start to turn and the air gets a little chilly, this is the fine line that markets face coming back into September. Weaker data for the labor market would make it easier to justify Fed cuts. but would make the broader backdrop more historically challenging. Stronger data could make the Fed look off sides, committing to lower interest rates despite high and rising inflation, easy financial conditions, and what would be a still resilient economy.
2:40Andrew Sheets:And that could unleash even more aggressiveness and animal spirits. Stock markets might like that aggressiveness, but neither outcome is great for credit. And so by process of elimination, our market is hoping for something moderate, belt high and over the middle of the plate. Our economists' forecast for this Friday's jobs report for about 70 ,000 jobs and a stable unemployment rate would fit that moderate bill. But for this month, and now for the rest of the year, we'll be walking a narrow economic path. Thank you, as always, for your time. If you find Thoughts of the Market useful, let us know by leaving a review wherever you listen, and also tell a friend or colleague about us today.
3:22The preceding content is informational only and based on information available when created. It is not an offer or solicitation, nor is it tax or legal advice. It does not consider your financial circumstances and objectives and may not be suitable for you.
From the publisher
Our Head of Corporate Credit Research Andrew Sheets discusses the scenarios markets may face in September and for the rest of the year, as the Federal Reserve weighs interest rate cuts amidst slowing job growth and persistent inflation.
Read more insights from Morgan Stanley.
----- Transcript -----
Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Andrew Sheets, head of Corporate Credit Research at Morgan Stanley.
Today, the narrow economic path the markets face as we come back from summer.
It's Thursday, September 4th at 2:00 PM in London.
September is a month of change and one of my favorite times of the year. The weather gets just a little crisper. Kids go back to school. Football, both kinds, are back on tv. And financial markets return from the summer in earnest, quickly ramping back up to full speed. This year, September brings a number of robust debates that we'll be covering on this podcast, but chief among these might be exactly how strong or not investors actually want the economy to be.
You see, at the moment, the Federal Reserve is set to lower interest rates, and they're set to do that even though inflation in the US is still well above target and it's moving higher. That's unusual and it's made even more unusual in the context of financial conditions being very easy and the US government borrowing a historically large amount of money.
The Fed's reason to lower interest rates despite strong markets, elevated inflation and high budget deficits, is the concern that the US labor market is weakening. And this fear is not unfounded. US job growth has recently slowed sharply. In 2023 and 2024, the US was adding on average about 200,000 jobs every month. But this year job growth has been less than half that amount, just 85,000 per month. And the most recent data's even worse. Tomorrow brings another important update. But here's the rub: the Fed, in theory, is lowering rates because the labor market is weaker. Markets would like those lower rates, but investors would not like a significantly weaker economy.
And this logic is born out pretty starkly in history. When the Fed is lowering interest rates as growth holds up, that represents some of the best ever market environments, including the mid 1990s. But when the Fed lowers rates as the economy weakens, well, that represents some of the worst. So as the leaves start to turn and the air gets a little chilly, this is the fine line that markets face coming back into September. Weaker data for the labor market would make it easier to justify Fed cuts, but would make the broader backdrop more historically challenging. Stronger data could make the Fed look offsides, committing to lower interest rates despite high and rising inflation, easy financial conditions, and what would be a still resilient economy. And that could unleash even more aggressiveness and animal spirits.
Stock markets might like that aggressiveness, but neither outcome is great for credit. And so by process of elimination, our market is hoping for something moderate, belt high, and over the middle of the plate. Our economists forecast for this Friday's jobs report for about 70,000 jobs, and a stable unemployment rate would fit that moderate bill. But for this month and now for the rest of the year, we'll be walking a narrow economic path.
Thank you as always for your time. If you find Thoughts of the Market useful, let us know by leaving a review wherever you listen, and also tell a friend or colleague about us today.
