The Summer Holiday Survival Guide

0:00Not all probiotics are created equal. New Olli Precise Probiotics are expertly made with clinically studied strains for targeted benefits beyond digestion, like skin health, metabolism, or even stress response. Find your Precise Probiotic at a Walmart near you. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

0:33Welcome back to To Be A Boy podcast with me, Elliot Ray and Jodie Brewery. Jodie's off for the summer holidays, so you've got me to take you into the six weeks of fun. Now, the summer holidays can be brilliant. They can also be long, expensive and for many parents, pretty exhausting. So how do we move beyond simply surviving the summer and actually enjoying it with our children? Today we are joined by Amber Ogosoya William, also known as Playworker Amber. Amber is an inclusive play consultant and the inaugural NSPCC Champion of Childhood. Rooted in adventure playgrounds, she champions play as a powerful tool for equity, belonging and transformation in children's lives.

1:17So today we're going to talk about the power of play and how we can connect with our kids, support their development and have fun together without feeling like we need to entertain them for every minute of the day. We're going to explore what play looks like at different age groups and how we can make it work for children with additional needs. Some simple bite-sized ideas that any parent can try at home this summer. So Amber, please save us. Parents like me are pretty worried about these six weeks that are coming up and thinking about how are we going to survive? How are we going to make it to September?

1:52So Amber, we first met in the Prime Minister's garden when you encouraged me to go down a child's slide. You remember that? Absolutely. Of course I remember it. It was fab. You're going pretty fast as well. and they took a picture of it and they put it in the official comms that it sent out to everyone that attended the event of me with my hands up going down these child's pies and it was it was it was hilarious probably funny so amber before we get into the play tell us a little bit about you what led you to do this work today why play amber why do you do this work absolutely so to begin with I always say that kind of my life didn't like lead me to play it grew through it sort of thing so uh you know school really struggled academically it was a really difficult time I felt quite poorly and it was all going a bit wrong yeah Elliot that is what happened it was all going wrong and I always had a safe space there my safe space was at a venture playground my dad has been a play worker I've seen a play worker for like decades upon decades so my childhood was burnt toes bruised elbows you know lots of broken bones as well and lots of kind of grazed knees and it was laughter and it was the kind of freedom that teaches you before anyone else can tell you so play wasn't like a hobby for me but it was a landscape and it was a language and it was a way of being and it was a way to negotiate and it was a way to fail absolutely gloriously and then be able to pick yourself up back stronger and honestly learning like you know emotional regulation earlier yeah after a child's like completely like strapped your den apart and now you have to rebuild yourself yeah it's jarring it was such a gorgeous world so that early world basically shaped everything for me so i believe that kind of children's spaces where curiosity is not allowed but it's truly celebrated and basically have a huge commitment to making play accessible and inclusive and truly joyful for every family and we live in a cost of living crisis at the moment as we're all aware so showcasing that play does not need a huge amount of resource basically and my passion is to make sure parents feel confident connected and capable and not overwhelmed and truly judged so children matter to me the most because they carry the future in their little pockets and parents matter I guess to me the most because they really carry the weight of the world on their shoulders and plays like that intersect between them it's the bridge between them and it's a place where everyone can grow they can breathe and they can just connect so yeah play matters on a catastrophic scale love that and while you're talking about your childhood i was just picturing you as a child running through the meadows sun shining playing and you really painted a picture of a great upbringing ellie it was yeah i was a jerk chicken in my hand it was the massive we had huge tire swings at the time which honestly felt like you're jumping off the like a like you know in Arizona they've got the gorgeous Grand Canyons it felt like you're on the precipice of like a Grand Canyon you words can't describe it and I'm still friends with friends from back then those days and just to see us and what we do now yeah it's glorious it's really yeah and so I have the same feelings when I think about my summers you know just being out riding my bike no phones you're just miles away from home you just come back for food and I think for a lot of parents we want to recreate those memories for our kids but in this day and age it's quite it's quite tough because we don't get much annual leave for work we're quite scared about letting our children go out on their own for a variety of different reasons we don't often live near our parents our grandparents aren't around so it can feel quite daunting and I know I'm sure most of the parents listening are feeling a bit nervous about how they're going to navigate I guess the next six weeks but do you have any advice for families to actually thrive this summer and not just count down the days until September and school comes back again and the routine returns absolutely well I think firstly it's looking at thriving instead of just trying to survive so summer holidays they can feel like kind of this six weeks grand performance for parents that they quite frankly didn't actually audition for but thriving um doesn't come from doing more it comes from doing what matters.

6:11So my thoughts are family, I talk about lowering the bar. It does not need to be this gorgeous Pinterest summer. It just needs a present pairing and kind of building a bit of rhythm, you know, not really rigid schedules, like a morning anchor, a breakfast outside, a walk, a silly song, that can really shape the whole day and creating those mini pockets of joy, whether it's a shared gig or a game or a story in the shade is way more than enough. And I talk about letting children lead, Play is intrinsic. It is a part of you. You can feel it, especially as a child. You watch them play. They are off on their own adventure and it's gorgeous.

6:47So they are the expert in their wonder and they will show you what matters. They will show you and it's our job to really listen for families and parents. Let them guide you through their own play as well and really protect your energy. Thriving summer includes rest. Oh, my goodness. We don't talk about rest, Elliot, enough. you need rest yeah boundaries or saying not today about having that complete and utter guilt really protecting that energy because then when you do have those gorgeous moments of play and magic it really will it will just be catastrophic for them in in a gorgeous way and i say catastrophic it will be gorgeous it will be lovely because you have that time and you have that energy so a lot of the time it's lovely because you can you can start the day off in a really playful kind of light explanation way, wherever it's like a, you know, a mini Michelin, like one tiny challenge that, you know, you might build the tallest tower or tell me a six-centred story or like nature noticing is so easy.

7:45You can look for patterns and shadows and textures or like a creative burst. So you give them five minutes to draw or invent or to storytell something, you know? A lot of families, I always talk about a snack and a story. So you can read one page, one paragraph, one silly sentence and pair it with that, you know? So it is really interesting. That's looking at the morning. If you look at lunchtime, it's quite interesting. A lot of parents, they go, we can do this in the morning when we do an arts or craft activity, but what to do for the rest of the day, right? So like lunchtime, for example, you've got your calm corner a lot of the time.

8:17It's so simple. Just flip your cushions. You know, sensory objects, emotional check-ins. It can be so simple, but so easy. And I know that we will go into a bit more detail about different ways that they can actually do that bite-sized plate. I'm feeling better already. I feel like my central nervous system is relaxing as you're speaking. I'm like, I can do this. This doesn't sound too hard. It's working. Whatever you're doing, Amber, it's working. Thank you. I appreciate that. And what you were saying there about rest and not being too hard on ourselves, speaking my language, you know, I think sometimes we feel like we've got to do it all.

8:58We've got to work. We have to work. Got to be super present with our kids. But we don't allow ourselves that guilt-free time to just step away. And so really embracing that and saying it's okay for our kids to be bored sometimes. Like, that's all right. How do you feel about boredom? Is it okay for kids to be bored? I'm a big advocate for kids needing to be bored sometimes. Boredom. Elliot, boredom is key. in my opinion genuinely there is this kind of idea that it's families often fear it right like boredom is how you can actually be independent as a child and like that deep play going on and creativity because boredom it really sparks imagination because there's no ready-made entertainment and i'm sure uh elliot you can see the climate we're living in there basically everything is fast-paced the content is so curated to get that literal engagement five second engagement you know swipe you know now we're going from kind of apps we want to transform that into real adventure and from kind of scrolling to strolling like real you know and how that happens is I think through boredom and just problem solving and I just think it really strengthens your autonomy because you're letting children really lead that kind of on their own they are on their own because when you're bored you have to come up with an idea or an invention you know After they said to you, then I'm bored, I'm frustrated, I'm tired, I'm bored, I'm bored.

10:22After a while, they're going to do something. And I think it builds emotional tolerance and self-regulation because you have to really go into your own personal self and think, what am I going to do? Where is dementia going to take me? And a few colleagues, we talk about kind of, it really pushes children to kind of this deeper sense of, what am I going to do today? Like a meaningful play. Yes, you've got free play, right? but especially in places you have to think creatively so I think I do think Borden gives adults permission to just kind of step back a little bit and as you said about rest it gives parents rest time to breathe and just to let the child lead and to stop having to be the complete and utter entertainer I feel like their parents can sometimes turn into like cruise directors when um Borden isn't the problem I actually think it's a doorway to a little bit of growth for those young people because we were bored as children anyway I'm sure you were bored now I was bored a lot as a kid and you found things to do and I feel like as an adult as a parent I'm trying to be bored now like give me a day with nothing to do let me be bored please I'm praying for boredom for myself because that means space but you know what this is such an important conversation because like allowing our kids to be bored and not feeling like we have to entertain them 24 7 if they're not engaged if they're not learning they're not doing a new activity if you're not talking them through their day I think a lot of parents feel that pressure that we have to be that so to hear you know just to reaffirm boarding is fine it's normal actually it's quite healthy sometimes yeah I think is really important and and the rest point as well you know allowing ourselves to rest the summer holidays yeah is is so important so let's talk about play then so why is it why is it so important talk to us about like what is happening to kids when they play socially, emotionally, developmentally.

12:16What's going on? When children play, we have this idea that they're messing about, you know, but they're actually doing kind of the most sophisticated source of learning of their life because under the surface, you learn to argue, to repair, to take turns, to lead, to follow, to build relationships, to negotiate. And that's socially, but emotionally, they're testing their feelings of safety, feeling brave. You know, when you go down a slide, Elliot, and it is huge you are being brave in that moment you know i mean i think learning i felt that at the prime minister's house i felt very brave going down that slide it was like absolutely and you looked at me like this you're like okay i was like you could do it you know i think it's like learning to soothe yourself as well when you did it you went you know what okay i can do it like learning to soothe oneself and to explore frustration you know i use jenga as a really prime example when you take that block out and your whole jenga piece collapses it's frustrating but also it's the excitement of when you're about to tap a jenga a wooden piece in and yeah disappointment don't you think elliot i think as an adult we get disappointed we fail and it's that that that sense of disappointment but because we've we've gone through it as a child we know that we can get back up again an absolute joy emotionally it is joyous it is fantastic there's a brilliant piece of research done by dr helen dodd and she is just fascinating that she looks at the benefits of mental health and play all wrapped into one and developmentally here you're highlighting that kind of you know problem solving and experimenting we experiment and it's quite funny i feel like as adults we grow and we change and we morph and we shift and we are experimenting for our whole lives you know and just building some real grits and resilience I think that's why play to me is at the heart of everything remember it is a fundamental right here and it literally states that in the UN articles and I think what's going wrong Elliot is that we're not realizing that this builds executive function so like quick thinking and learning to be flexible and learning to be creative of oneself so I think play truly is the engine of kind of what childhood I guess is in a nutshell but it's it's basically children rehearsing life before they get big so I think once we stop that and we put a pause on that and you know outdoors is so fundamental to young people and children once we put a pause on that they don't I don't think people realize that the detrimental effects that we're going to have we're going to have children who are too fearful to actually step outside too fearful to to talk to one another play bridges the gap so i think once we remove that my goodness i can't imagine how society would be because we're constantly playing even now do you know one of the big things i've learned from doing this podcast i've been doing it for about a year and a half now it's just the importance of letting the kids go outside and like we used to go out right like outside and come back and we were fine and that was i guess where society was whereas we're not like that now as a society we're a bit more worried about our kids going out so I've got a 10 year old and a three year old both girls and now we let them go to the park by themselves it's just around the corner from my house literally it's around the corner but it's great because the 10 year old looks after the three year old and when they come back they're just buzzing that they went to the park by themselves they had that freedom and don't get me wrong I'm a little bit nervous about it my eldest has got a brick phone which she takes with her and there's a little bit of nervousness of making sure they're okay and and whatnot but ultimately I'm like it's good for them it's really good for us as well so we let them do it but I know it can be tricky it can be tricky so what would you say to parents who are a little bit worried about letting their kids like outdoors this summer by themselves so in my opinion worry is like love in disguise and I think the whole point you want to keep yourself safe you want to keep them protected you want to keep them held at the end of the day so it's a naturally intrinsic and like really beautiful concept but I think the truth for families is children grow through the doing and the trying and the climbing and the wobbling and the balancing and the you letting them go that's Elliot that's such a good sense of autonomy you letting them go off on their own to explore and you're trusting them so it's not unsafe and it's not reckless and it's you know it's not just letting go it's letting them actually it's letting them it's letting them grow at the end of the day do you know what I mean and and the world it does feel fast and it feels kind of unpredictable and we're told everywhere that there's stranger danger that's constantly present am I am I wrong and there's pressure to be the perfect parent but actually you don't need to be fearless like you don't have to be fearless but it's actually just about being present for children and and they don't need a superhero but they need a calm person to win this that for you to go okay you know what i'm trusting you here to go off on your own and come back you know and i think that when i say it's not letting go you know you're actually letting them learn you are you're letting them understand that you know that the world is is made and is built and is curated uh for them and i think you know for parents their role here isn't just kind of isn't to stop every single moment but you know it is to spot the big risks but not to remove every tiny one of them you know and the safety net that they have it doesn't have to be bubble wrap do you see what i mean i think bubble wrap is quite tight when you say earlier like you know you wrap something in bubble wrap you want that to not break or smash or get chipped in any way but a safety net now you've got all that space for them to kind of grow and learn and any parent that's really concerned and you you know you feel you're feeling really you're really not confident to do this the best piece of advice honestly i can give you today is go to the venture playground there are loads i say loads they're kind of unfortunately lots are closing because funding so please go to venture playground they are designed for safe risk they are you've got wonderful play workers in there which has which then they can have some level of a controlled environment and then really gorgeous kind of community energy so it's one of the safest places your children can go to explore that bravery so that's what i would say i would say if you're feeling worried it means that you really care and don't feel as though you're doing the wrong thing here yeah so talk to us about the adventure playground yes sounds fun what's that all about adventure playground so when i say adventure playground some people look at me like you know you know what is this gibberish yeah i think so So adventure playgrounds are not just places to play.

19:04They're like living ecosystems of just honestly, Elliot, like imagination. It is designed to children to basically to take risks, to build confidence, to be able to collaborate and to just shape their own world. And adventure playgrounds, there are so many that are doing it well. And basically, the difference between adventure playground and playgrounds, children choose what to do and how to do it. you know that autonomy is gold dust for their development and it's like a community hub you know you've got you've got the parents that you've got a grandparent you've got siblings they all get to be a part of this magic together so to me a wrench playgun is a kind of intergenerational motion they are and we know we know as a society having intergenerational relationship play between you know that older generation and the younger generation coming together is just it does something to the brain as they say so adventure playgrounds are so inclusive and there's there's such a right like a wide range and i'm one of the ex directors for um play england and you really spotlight and try our best to spotlight adventure playgrounds and i actually run an under eight program inside an adventure playground and when i tell you if you see the joy that comes out of this this this hub and this space so elliot my question i do have a question for you go on do you know the difference between an adventure playground and a playground like do you know what the differences are i haven't got a clue i mean adventure playground sounds bigger and it sounds a little bit more mysterious

20:47i don't know i just feel like it's higher there's more to do there's more activities you can swing from things you can jump from things yeah yeah yeah absolutely by the way But I don't know. Enlighten us. What's the difference? Well, so a playground, you see them very commonly, you know, they're in parks, right? It's fixed equipment. So it's there, fixed into the ground. That is it. And that's like a traditional kind of, it's very predictable. You know what's coming. It's equipment led. You see what's kind of being trailblazed out of what's happening. You know, you've got the swings, you've got the slides, you've got your seesaw.

21:20You know, you've got everything kind of there for you. Climbing frames, monkey bars, you know the drill. but they're engineered for durability and low maintenance and they're just there for safety compliance whereas venture playgrounds they're open-ended so it's built for child-led exploration that's why i say it's so that it's it's just it's so different to a regular playground because i get honestly elliot do you know how many times i say to someone go to venture playground they go oh yeah we take them to the playground all the time completely different elliot you got um you know like the loose parts and nature materials and timber and nets honestly do you know how many times Ellie my dad's still there in the bench playground working as a senior play worker with the fire going on he's a fireplace it is honestly a multi kind of level structure of chaos and children you're selling this to me you're it's sold I'm going to the adventure playground yeah honestly where can people find it they just google adventure playground and google adventure playground and you'll come up with such a wide list and I can spotlight something you've got max roach you've got weavers you've got high trees in brixton there are so many you've got grow adventure playground there's so many gorgeous ones out there honestly the list could go on right elliot can tell right so the reason why i say to families please adventure playgrounds they are a treat to what play is they are the developmental process they're not a product unlike playgrounds they are this kind of area that is kind of uncontrolled uncertain but it's really supported so Elliot the main big difference is here you have professional play workers you have paid members of staff in these spaces do you see what I mean it is a it's a different so again if those parents are feeling uncertain and and are not safe you know just knowing in your back of your mind you've got you have got literal paid staff members that unfortunately are very underpaid so please give them all the grace and time and and just energy that you have but they're there to make sure your children are protected and they're supervised by people that that support a safe challenge and know what they know what risks to take and they know how best to support conflict resolution and emotional yeah well-being so please go elliot we gotta go i'm gonna go i'm gonna go and I think there's so many people listening that are looking for things to do so that's going to be I'm sure a spike in the google searches for adventure playgirl let's talk about that let's talk about the day-to-day so you know we're with our kids we're trying to work on our laptops maybe the grandparents have the kids for a little while but we've got a block of a few hours we don't have much time we can't be there five hours playing with our kids we'd love to but for this particular day we've got to kind of sneak in and out give them some snacks give them some lunch how do we build like meaningful moments of connection in short bursts throughout the day that are actually going to be good all around for everyone do you have any advice let's start for little kids so kind of zero to five-year-olds what kind of advice would you give to to those parents navigating absolutely okay so let's be honest first parents imagine playing with your child means hours on the floor pretending to be a dinosaur but children often don't need the performance they need the presence so yes you can absolutely do that and it's fantastic but i get a lot of parents earlier being like i'm not going to do that do you know like why would i do that what's the point what's the purpose so zero to five let's talk about it so kind of i say minimum minimum effort because it doesn't require a lot so super simple like copy my movement so you do a tiny action you do some wiggle wiggles you do some fingers you do a slow spin and you're trying to copy simple swap roles instant giggles lots of laughter yeah another one like a 30 second especially if they're little little little tiny it's gorgeous you can literally pull a silly face it sounds so silly and it sounds ridiculous but it literally it changes like the way that they see see life as well as you get older now though it's even more fascinating looking at maybe five to seven as well would you rather fantastic right connecting boosting would you rather spaghetti hair or marshmallow toes uh you know sound detective can you close your eyes and what is like the quietest sound you can hear what's the funniest sound you can make you do a lot of emotional charades that act out excited sleepy silly confused you know shadow shapes my favorite especially in the sun now there's shadows everywhere you know using your hands to make animals and it could be it could be literally anything the five object challenge which i love which basically means you get them to take five objects across the across the you don't even have be at home you'll be in the park you'll be anywhere and make up a story using all of them and if you're somewhere like traveling you know on transport you can be like right pick five different five different things that you can see around you and then we can make a make a story you know again copy my faces i'm sure we will be in there yeah copy my face it's fantastic and dance break so i do some really wonderful work with the royal opera house elliot and i for a massive massive play dance party with hundreds of families we're wiggling we're giggling you can recreate that at home dance like jelly robots spaghetti yeah mystery bag is a good one as well i'm giving you all the top tricks today this is amazing this is incredible in a bag and a child has to feel it and i have to guess what it is the one minute build is always fab because it's kind of like jenga you build the tallest tower possible but you don't use like you know Django you actually use anything around the house and basically you give them one minute a countdown you know I always I say to families put the countdown sound on and a color hunt as well Elliot it's so easy five five things that's blue quick 20 seconds it's so yeah it's just so thought-provoking hey it's Kelly Rowland you may not know this but I have eczema so I get how it can steal your time.

27:16But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about EBCLIS? EBCLIS, Lubrikizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBCLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if If you are allergic to EpGliss, allergic reactions can occur that can be severe.

27:48Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EpGliss. Before starting EpGliss, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EpGliss and visit epgliss.com. Or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Hey, it's Christy from Lululemon. I'm in the office with what's new, and the Breezley Collection has definitely caught my eye. If you're like me and want to add some lighter, airy pieces to your wardrobe, this is a great place to start.

28:20There's a Breezley tank, shorts, and pants, all in our Swift fabric, which is super lightweight and stretchy. They're flowy staples you can mix and match for a really easy, elevated vibe, whether it's to and from the studio or just for every day. The Breezley Collection is in store now, or you can shop online at lululemon.com.

28:40I think a lot of the time people go but play isn't learning play coordinates all learning sorry I will forever say you play is the coordinator play is the the gap for learning so for example I get a few families it's funny I work with families from across the sector in different places and some are like we can't afford to take our children to look at a museum for example but you can bring the museum to you get a child to pick an object in your house and explain why it's special like you're going on a little exhibition you know and the silly voice story that one is always quite a funny one and you get them to read that sort of book or something you know okay yeah that's that's amazing like what you just said there you've given me so many ideas because sometimes i'm with my kids and because i haven't like thought about what we're gonna do we just don't know what we're doing and so we end up just messing around and like sometimes we find our way and we find the game to play or or other times we just don't we don't and we're kind of sitting there bored looking at each other and then the screens come out and we just say that Elliot you know with the screens and kind of digital play so you know earlier you asked me kind of like toddlers like you're asking about the ages sort of thing you know like zero to five so just as a quick blast through for parents in case they're like what does this mean so like toddlers messy just think honestly anything that's messy sensory exploratory water sand boring zacking pretending movement repetition and then primary age you know inventing worlds creating stories experimenting rulemaking and challenges and then older children they haven't grown out of it their play has grown up with them so you know giving them a creative project to do you know digital play is fantastic so a lot of the time you see people you see children pardon me and it's not always brilliant to hear me out you know everything in doses right Elliot you know you know I say I say the same thing to a mom so I had a mom Elliot who I work with a lot she's wonderful and she always has her hands on acrylic nails see and I say to her do you give yourself a break she's like absolutely at least once you know every year or so it's the same with technology you know if you oversaturate something it's damaging that that might be you know a dessert it might be acrylic nails it might it might be anything if you overdo it it's damaging and because technology is so prominent now and it's everywhere you look parents are so fearful because it is damaging so having that in the back of your mind going you know what everything in doses digital play can be fantastic we have to upskill ourselves like like parents parents need to be upskilling themselves to it go play outside then you can have a tablet is the worst thing you could say to a child you know when actually going outside should be the journey and then if for whatever reason they see you on your phone include that within the play i just did a really gorgeous project with a winchester science center and we actually include digital play within one of the gorgeous exhibits that are outdoors inside a chalk stream and i appear on the screen i take them on really fun exciting ecological adventures but the reason why it's play-based is because they're like mission prompts so it's just sparking those really simple ideas for those families to go off together and do themselves so older children they love a bit of movement and making things and something that social connection like i'm sure you've seen them vision boards right so popular for that teenage demographic that is play in a nutshell collage yeah you know you're giving them things they're gonna now you know it's like solving a problem you're giving them a magazine they have to figure out oh what what what makes that me so yeah just highlight that play is forever it's a full cycle there's research that's hardwired into our dna so yeah i love that i feel like i'm being educated right now like we have to learn how to play again you kind of forget right under the stress of life life you life is life in you forget how to play and when you're just listing off those games the very simple games like what's in this bag or build a tower based on things you find in the house simple but if you don't know those games exist then you don't know what to do you look at each other board so is there a resource like a page where you can find a list of all those different games that you listed out anywhere do you know of any of those resources that exist now i have done lots of different articles and things online which highlight that one is with tapestry completely free resource online and i spotlight it's so detailed as well variety of different activities that you can do that is cost effective.

33:20They're things that you can find in your home. So definitely check that out. It's a link online. It's called Let Play Lead the Day. And there's a little animation resource with it too. So I would say to any parents, if you're like oh, I'm not sure, click on that and it will give you a whole ride. Amazing. And we'll put the link in the show notes as well. Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about special educational needs and children with additional needs. So many parents in our in our community people who listen to this podcast they have children with autism ADHD other additional needs and I know all the things that we've said today may still apply but they also they may not because the child maybe has different sensory needs or stuff like that what would you say to parents who have children with additional needs like what's your advice for them in regards to this whole conversation about engagement and play I do think play becomes powerful when you meet a child exactly where they are so you know scnd friendly play isn't a different kind of play at all and it's just a play that might be more responsive and more attuned and more sensory aware and more slightly more emotionally safe so that sort of plays like i see you and i understand and i'm gonna like follow your rhythm so you know in terms of like what what does kind of scnd based play off on you know lots of predictable sensory outputs you know gentle sound soft textures and really kind of regulating those sensory experiences so water play honestly at the science center elliot we just curated a course that we have a chalk stream that is filtered through one of the exhibits it looks like a playground and it's fantastic and that was designed in terms of looking at kind of you know scnd based families and making sure you know we have weighted objects but then we also have that water play there too and i think choice i think a lot of children feel really safe you know and looking at play as a celebration and I think repetition is often regulation for a lot of you know children especially with autism it's comforting it's like mastering they're mastering their process so when the child repeats the same movement or the same game or when their play isn't interrupted to them it builds that repetitive kind of nature and what's quite nice when it comes to play we can really we can really adapt it to having you know visual prompts what i'm loving at the moment i'm not sure if you're seeing elliot playgrounds are having a really clear visual board that have a wide range of really clear prompts visual prompts that are friendly play offers and ideas and how to say dance for example and how to really connect with one another and some bsl within that as well so i think it's really simple steps but just allow for kind of alternative communication styles is what i would say because you could do any of these activities and with a variety of different children regardless of age height gender you know if they have a special educational need you can do it it's just looking at kind of communication style children communicate through movement through sound through eye contact through silent gazing through repetition through proximity my specialty was looking at inclusive play like what is that so i think in the cnd world a lot of the time it's actually come and show me your world let them take you on their adventure around yeah and that's why I say to a lot of families, Elliot, take your children to an event, let them lead.

36:39Because again, you won't get, you know, you know, it reduces kind of cognitive overload. A lot of SEND children, as we're aware, when there's too much choice, it becomes really overwhelming. There's too much language, or there's too much noise, or there's too many steps, like there's too much to do. So let's bring it back to the basics. That's why those things that I told you, Elliot, are just super simple. You know, it doesn't require a lot because then they can take you on that journey. I hope that answers your question. I know it does. it does incredibly well thank you so much so i'm thinking about the parents who have kids and maybe let's say they're about 12 13 they're going into those tricky teenage years and they feel like maybe they're losing their kids a little bit because the kids aren't as forthcoming as they used to be about engaging with them they're more interested in other things they're losing them to screens and maybe they feel a little bit disconnected hormones all that sort stuff what would your advice be for those parents to like connect back with those kids even if again they haven't got all day they have to work but they've got moments throughout the day that they can connect what would your advice be for them yes the teenage years are often a challenge right and they're often such an obstacle for families especially with screens that is a big kind of overarching thing here when I talk to families it's the screen takes over my child's life I don't know what to do I'm getting a lot of resentment because I'm taking that screen away so I really do believe teenagers crave risk height speed anything that has challenge within it you know and that's why they become challenging you know when they get to that teenage you know point in time so first the outdoors they need to see you doing it they need to see you engaging with this you can't tell your teenager who's 12 to go and like you know you made an obstacle course for them as an example that sounds silly but you can't get them to do it you need to do it with them 100 and looking at kind of the structure of your day have you broken up that day especially in the summer holidays have you broken up that day for them away from the screens but also letting them use real tools that's why i highlight adventure playgrounds here again i know elliot that again yes i have to do you have shares in an adventure playground about you're on commission that's what i feel like but it's the tools elliot the tools that you're allowed to use there is like not what you would expect you're talking like saws and hammers and nails of independence like they're craving it they don't like it when you know your mom's here mom leave me alone i want to do it on my own you know giving them the tools and resources to feel like wow she's really trusting me like to do this you'd be surprised i talked to so many different families and and that is kind of the big overarching kind of highlighting thing here is autonomy you need to let them have risk you need to let them build those social groups you need to let them actually connect to kind of yeah who play workers in those spaces who really get your teenagers as well now creative expression through play is such a good one for teenagers so getting them to feel you know so when it comes to kind of the social media and all of that sort of thing when I just say social media I mean phones you can get them to make skits do silly videos you know dance routines but before you get them to film it get them to go off and do it themselves you see then that becomes like an ad at the end you know then we can then we can do it you know then we can actually we can take the picture of it so for example drawing creating even crafting even building a den you'd be so surprised if you made honestly I had a wonderful mom and we were looking at with her children it was part of a big program um dens at home and she's like i'm really struggling here and i was like what are you using i was like do you how old is your child i was like i mean you know we went through kind of what does she like what she doesn't like we made a pink like a pink palace den and it honestly was cushions blankets lots and lots and lots of pink cloth and we got lots of tissue paper we basically covered this this den and then we had popcorn for them in the middle and it was and they were like oh this is amazing and you should see them they're like right we're gonna to build a day next time and they are like 13 going on 14 you're like i don't want to do any of that you see what i mean it's giving them true sense of you know identity shaping their voice you know what do you actually enjoy and we can do that and social play for teenagers we do it now as adults you know i'm a caribbean african and you know my caribbean family always playing dominoes yeah group games capture the flag tug of war tag variation football frisbee you know football is such look at the world cup bringing the world together literally football this is what i mean play in a nutshell it's just a universal language that ball is a universal language everybody look across the net across the world can see well this is like a universal sport a universal language It's the same when it comes to play.

41:40You don't need Google Translate. It's a negotiating eye contact, you know, through shared roles and through lived experience. You just don't need it. And yeah, making up really fun challenges, you know, hanging out, chatting with jokes. Basically make them see as though they're an adult. And yes, digital play does count here when they're a teenager. Rest assured that they're not too old to play. If they are glued to a screen, let's support them with becoming independent here. and not distant and not danger and not disconnected. You have to engage with what they like. Yeah, I love what you said there.

42:16I love what you said there in regards to like, yes, you can do the skit, but do the skit first, practice it, take joy in creating that moment with your friends or your siblings or you're by yourself and then we're going to film it after. So you're doing it for the action rather than just doing it for social media. and I try to approach my social media like that like I live my life and then I put my thoughts or my things I've done on social media rather than I need to do this for social media I guess that whole reframe is is really important but this has been incredible Amber I feel like I've been taken to church I've been taken to university the play university I feel like I'm going to these six weeks I'm still stressed don't get me wrong I'm still worried but I feel like I'm more equipped now throughout the day and it's just it's just something in my mind to say actually there are little things I can do throughout the day that's going to engage my children that I can use around the house and just those ideas I think are going to help so many people when they're stuck or the family's frustrated or bored or whatever so this has been incredible what are your final words for parents this summer so parents you know when you're stepping back you're not actually stepping back but you're stepping alongside you know when you let your children especially when you've got i'm talking about that early years demographic there letting them go off and and have their adventure it might be in your garden might be in the living room where they've covered the room in lego just know it's not mess and they're actually learning to build their own world they are rehearsing real life so please please please let them do it and i think as well one more kind of really big point is that i get a lot of families elliot asking me and talking about what my child doesn't want to play with them their child doesn't want to play with them children invite us into their world in really subtle ways and it might be repetitive of the same activity you know not getting stuck into the play but for a lot of parents please just sit nearby them you can narrate gently you can copy their movements but you can offer but don't direct their play you know it's self-intrinsic they'll do it on their own accord and kind of let them be the storyteller and big massive point join in the play always but without taking over follow your child's lead and you know you'll show them the door and then all they have to do is walk through that door you just see such difference in their development amazing incredible where can people find you online what are you on instagram that is my thing i am at play worker amber and i have again this really wonderful gorgeous permanent exhibit if you want to come and mix play and science and ecology and you want the children to become pathologists or anything to do with science and play together i would love if you would so you could message me on instagram or you can come and visit the science center you know but just let me know because then i can come too and we can make sure that you actually really enjoy the center and see these gorgeous exhibits that are all about play we did a massive launch event where we had 18 year olds 15 year olds 16 year olds 14 year olds toddlers and it was glorious so regardless of any age we had grandparents yeah come and have some fun basically amazing you've given us hope amber we could do this guys we're gonna survive the summer and we're gonna be there in september heads held high we're gonna do it we can do it with your advice i think you've given us all a virtual hug and some comfort and encouragement and education i really enjoyed it thank you so much amber for imparting your play wisdom with us It's been amazing.

45:54Thank you so much.

46:23up to 60 % off outdoor and bedroom furniture. Shop Wayfair's huge selection of styles and find the piece to fit your style, budget, and space. Plus, free shipping. Black Friday in July ends July 27th. Shop today at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for$15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made$15 bills. But it turns Turns out, that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

47:00Upbound payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms.