Can Starmer revive Labour after turmoil? – The Latest

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:13We assume that this government is, you know, under Keir Starman's drawing to an end. It's actually the fate of a 120-year-old project called the Labour Party. It's been a busy week. He has my support. The government has my support. They will know that the guy they're applauding is toast, and it is only a matter of time before you pull him out and put the butter on, right? Well, he represents a kind of stability. I would say the stability of a graveyard. You can throw names around. You can talk about Andy Burnham, Angela Rayner. However, as far as the energy in British politics has gone, it has deserted this government.

0:43Keir Starmer's cabinet has fallen into line after days of turmoil. So can this mark a moment of reset for the Prime Minister, or is it the beginning of the end? From The Guardian's Today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Lucy Hoth. joining me is Aditya Chakraborty Guardian columnist thanks so much for being with us in the studio Aditya it's great to see you so what a 24 hours it has been around this time yesterday we would likely have been having a conversation about the likelihood of the lectern being placed outside number 10 we had Anisawa the leader of Scottish Labour due to speak then but as the afternoon went on and has been covered in an exceptional episode of Today in Focus this morning which I'd urge you to listen to about a story of the day.

1:29Kirstarman now seems in a relatively strong position to continue. He addressed his own MPs at the Parliamentary Labour Party last night, the PLP, which went down well it sounds like. Lots of standing ovations, lots of applause. You surprised me Lucy. I mean in the forum of the Parliamentary Labour Party you're having a meeting in which people do performative applause for periods of time, bang the desks, say what a wonderful prime minister they've got. I mean, the thing I would say about every one of those 400 plus MPs is they will know that the guy they're applauding is toast. Right. And it is only a matter of time before you pull him out and put the butter on, right?

2:07They know he's over. And they know he's over because we came into this year talking about how long he's got left. As you know, as well as I do, that we are heading into a very important by-election at the end of February and in local elections and from time immemorial it seems to me because listen to political chat ages you it's very bad for your skincare um but but all i've been hearing is when is it that he's going to face a challenge yeah so i would take i would take what you heard out of the plp meeting with the backbenchers yesterday with an absolute saxo bottle of salt and just think that everyone knows that he's gone It's just a case of when he actually is pushed.

2:53Yeah. Or that this has come slightly too early and that the people who are preparing themselves for that leadership challenge aren't quite in a position to do so yet. So let's stick with Starmer, the feeling perhaps is among some quarters until after May. Let him get us through that and get the drubbing and then stand out. You know what? I think that has been the lay of the land for a long time, is that you've basically got a bunch of people who might want to put themselves in a frame, but they haven't got what it takes. and so every every now and then you get one of these moments and it was you know yesterday was a point at which you know the guy from scotland stands up say who's with me and then no one's with him last week it was a release of the uh the the epstein files and manson's name all over them and it's we want to move but no one moves and this happens a lot because the prime movers the names that come up well they're not able to challenge scarce cast army yet i mean everyone knows Annie Burnham tried for it and then was blocked by bureaucrats.

3:49Angela Rayne is still going through this tax investigation. If she wants to go for it beyond that, who knows? And then West Streeting is tarred by association with Peter Manson because going by what we've seen of the various communications that he's released so far, he was very much Manson's protégé. He's seen, West Streeting's seen as a standard bearer for Mandelsonian politics, what we now call new labour Peter Manson created new labour yeah uh so so I I I find it really difficult to uh to to prize the two apart and if you take that from what's been displayed in public over the past few days is basically the power worship and the money worship that lay at the heart of new labour and that ruined new labour as a project was then trained on Jeffrey Epstein by Peter Manson and on getting bankers on Wall Street what they wanted from the British government well I think you know West Streeting has to show not just to say but show that he's different from that and that he has not yet shown.

4:50There is a meeting of the cabinet this morning described as a political meeting again lots of smiles Cheshire Cat smiles around the cabinet table West Streeting there as you say with probably some questions to answer and certain people around that table who not very happy with what is clearly a very political sign to show he's on manoeuvres. As you say, absolutely not a secret. But there are others who are, as you say, not currently credible as potential leadership candidates, but who have potentially ambition to Ed Miliband, reportedly Angela Rayner, who is under investigation over her taxes, West Feating, who we've talked about but others shabana mahoud if we look at say the burnham milliband reyner collective i mean they are all on the soft left of the party ed milliband on the broadcast around this morning was talking about this as a moment to look again at labour's values talking about the cost of living clearly a pitch to that soft left and i'm wondering with mcsweeney gone morgan mcsweeney such an influential figure in starmerism gone does that open us up to potentially a moment of a reset to tack a bit further to the soft left?

6:01No, that's a really good question. Because, look, here I think is the major thing that you have seen played out with Keir Starmer's government over the past 19 months, right? It has become clear, the further along we go, that there is less to it than meets the eye. Less to it than meets the eye, right? Their programme of change turned out to be no change, right? The guy who said that he's going to take Britain back and introduce new standards of decency ends up being the guy who puts in the friend of a notorious paedophile as giving him the most plum job in British diplomacy. And then you get this general sense, well, he represents a kind of stability.

6:36I would say the stability of a graveyard, right? And then you have this general sense, well, at least these guys can win elections. Well, look at the polling, right? These people are now rivaling the Green Party for where they stand at the moment. You know, Kemi Badnock and Keir Starmer are level pegging when it comes to winning the hearts of the British people. So it's not going well. The bigger question that I think that lies behind all of that, if you agree with me that there is less to this party than meets the eye, then you say, well, what is actually left? The puddle was shrunk so far. It's evaporated so far.

7:12What's actually left? And you can throw names around. You can talk about Andy Burnham, Angela Rayner. These are all, you know, very engaging people who have said good things, I think, and thoughtful things over time. However, the general social base of the Labour Party, the people who would turn out, vote for it, door knock for it, convince their friends to turn out and do the business for their party, has evaporated as well. And the reason it has evaporated is squarely because of Morgan McSweeney and his gang and the behaviour they were licensed to adopt by Keir Starmer. So anyone who was associated with Jeremy Corbyn obviously is verboten, gets chucked out of the party.

7:56Right. Then on the so-called soft left that you were talking about, Neil Lawson, a 60 something year old man who tweeted about how we should be nice to each other in British politics. He gets suspended and threatened with expulsion. And then from from other wings of the party, you get Rosie Duffield, who gets who says she gets bullied out of out of the Labour government by a bunch of boys in the back room. So anyone who gets in the way of these people or this very narrow faction of the Labour Party is basically thrown under a huge truck and they are disposed of. So because it doesn't matter then what the guys say, what the woman says, what kind of slogan you come out with tomorrow.

8:36As far as the energy in British politics has gone, it has deserted this government. Right. No one is going to turn out and vote for them with anything apart from I just need to stop Nigel Farage. That's the only thing that's on the agenda now. And the problem that you get, Lucy, is that you've had carefully where the stop reform vote went applied. You've got Gorton coming up at the end of this month and it's very likely that the stop reform vote may well go to the Greens. And then you've got a bunch of council elections at which Labour are going to be absolutely massacred. Yeah. So just finally, Aditya, I mean, we know the problems about Starmer as a politician, that he's a poor communicator, that he's perceived by the public to have very little in the way of political nous, that he lacks an overriding vision.

9:22McSweeney is now gone, which I think in the context of what you've just been talking about, this about the very brutal purge of the left from within the party. Is there any hope of a reshaping ahead of May, do you think? Or as things stand, are things pretty terminal? One of the most revealing conversations I've had this week has been with someone who actually has known more than McSweeney for decades. Right. Doesn't agree with him at all on what he's done, but has been friends with him. they said to me you know what it's not even the fate of this government because we assume that this government is you know under Keir Starman is drawing to an end it's actually the fate of a 120 year old project called the Labour Party because if you throw out so many people who were at the leading edge of it if you throw out so many members if you say to loads and loads of people who are Muslim or left-wing or trans or whatever actually we don't want your vote we'll be fine right all you're left with is a small faction and you know what Morgan McSweeney's great big electoral victory before the 2024 election was.

10:21It was getting Liz Kendall 3.5 % of the vote in the leadership elections in 2015, right? The people who are in charge of the government now represent a tiny niche within a niche of this country. That is a problem. So as far as rebuilding Labour, rebuilding government, these are huge projects. They're not going to happen before May. It's arguable now whether they can happen over the course of this Parliament. that is the challenge that Keir Starmer has presented his own party with. Well, we'll wait to see what the next weeks and months bring because they are very, very critical ones indeed. Thank you so much, Aditya.

10:56Thank you, Lucy.

11:00That's it for today. My huge thanks again to Aditya Chakraborty, Guardian columnist. You can keep up with his work over at Guardian.com. And do listen to this morning's episode of Today in Focus on the dramatic day that nearly ended Keir Starmer's premiership on Monday. Today in Focus we'll be back with you as usual tomorrow morning and we'll be back tomorrow night. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoff. The producer was Bryony Moore. The senior producer was Ryan Ramgobin. The lead producer was Zoe Hitch.

11:30This is The Guardian.