Jenrick defects to Farage’s Reform UK – The Latest

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:13It was one of those moments where in a newsroom there are lots of people kind of swearing and looking at their phones with amazement. This morning I removed the conservative whip from Robert Jenrick after dismissing him from the shadow cabinet. The way she has handled this has been quite effective. It's put her on the front foot. It hasn't given Jenrick the chance to tell his story first. I was very sorry to be presented with clear, irrefutable evidence, not just that he was preparing to defect, but he was planning to do so in the most damaging way possible. It's a very badly kept secret that he has been flirting with the idea of defecting to reform.

0:48As far as Mr Jenrick's concerned, of course I've talked to Robert Jenrick. Was I on the verge of signing a document with him? No, but have we had conversations? Yes. You will look to, I think, the average person who's not deeply engaged in politics like a bit of a snake. I think you will look to a lot of people who are deeply engaged in politics like a bit of a snake as well, to be honest. More Tory psychodrama as Kemi Badenok is forced to sack Robert Jenrick over what she says is irrefutable evidence he was planning to defect. From the Guardians today in Focus, this is The Latest with me, Lucy Hoth.

1:25joining me is Archie Bland head of national news so it was feeling like a relatively quiet news morning wasn't it until Kemi Badenock released a video from what appeared to be a kind of hotel room possibly her bedroom her living room with a fuzzed out background so clearly recorded somewhat on the fly we can assume saying that she was being forced to sack her shadow justice secretary Robert Jenrick, but also, of course, former rival to the Tory leadership. What did she say? She said that she had been presented with evidence that Robert Jenrick was planning to defect. She didn't say to reform, so maybe that she didn't have the evidence in front of her for that.

2:03One can assume not the Greens. Probably not the Greens, although that would be quite a story if that were the case. And she also said that he planned to do so in a way that was as damaging to the rest of the shadow cabinet as possible. That conjures in your head images of him making secret recordings. things but to be clear there's no evidence of anything like that it's probably just that he was going to be very rude about them and I've got to say it was one of those moments where in a newsroom there are lots of people kind of swearing and looking at their phones with amazement and felt like quite a big story and the long narrative about the changes on the right of the British political ecosystem.

2:35Yeah the newsroom gasp always a good moment but it also could mean in terms of maximum damage just ahead of the May local elections that sort of timing issue but there is reporting, isn't there, that he was planning to do this within the next 24 hours, which would be a reason why Bednock would record this so suddenly. Yeah, and it's certainly been brewing in one sense for a long time, right? I mean, I think it's a very badly kept secret and indeed not one that he himself has tried to keep, particularly that he has been flirting with the idea of defecting to reform. There are different accounts of why that is.

3:10He would say it's because of where he believes his true ideological position is and what is best for the British people. Lots of other people would say it's about his personal ambition and him making a decision about where he thinks that will be best served. But certainly it appears to have come to a head recently. And according to Bedenock, that is because a document was found, which may have been a speech we've seen reporting. Pretty amazing bit of incompetence, if that is indeed the case, to leave that lying around in potential sight of an ally of Kemi Bedenock. It has sort of final underscore version two energy, But there's also some good juicy detail about what Baden-Ock knew without Jenrick knowing that she did over the weekend, that she's been aware of this for a couple of days now.

3:51Jenrick, we understand, was only made aware that she knew at the moment of this statement or another minister rang him this morning. Right, the chief whip. But they haven't spoken directly. No, and to be clear, all of this is conservative, close to Baden-Ock briefing. And actually, I think part of what it shows is that there is a real advantage in being the first person to move on this because you get a narrative out there. I'm sure that Robert Jenner would have quite a different story to tell about what unfolded. Equally, it's perfectly plausible. And in one sense, it's a known fact that he has been thinking about leaving the party while continuing to operate in the shadow cabinet.

4:26The claim is that Bedouin was looking at him furiously during the last Shadow Cabinet meeting, unable to believe that he would be willing to sit in there and be so disloyal at the same time. But, you know, by the time people hear this, we may be in a different position again. Well, what we understand is that Farage and Jenrick had had dinner, or there was possibly more than one dinner, but certainly there was one before Christmas. I mean, is there any other reason why Robert Jenrick and Nigel Farage would sit down to have dinner together before Christmas? Is there anything that they have in common beyond border control?

5:00I don't know about their shared hobbies. I mean, Nigel Farage famously likes having a pint and he will. I mean, I equally think it is possible that they would have conversations in a long range way about their potential future alignment without that necessarily meaning that they are imminently on the point. A firm date for a defection. Right, right. But like this has been in the ether, no doubt. It may be that it was genuinely in the ether and about to happen. It may be that because Baden-Ock has done this now and effectively kicked Jenner out of the Conservative Party that he defects because she's done it.

5:31And I think those two different things are quite different stories, but will have the same eventual outcome, which is that it now seems extremely likely that Robert Jenner is going to end up in reform. And indeed, there is a press conference later this afternoon in London. Farage has been speaking in Scotland this morning. he denied when pressed about this that this mystery press conference this afternoon was about this defection but clearly the proof will be in the pudding but he will certainly face questions about this certainly questions also about his relationship with Jenrick because he has been very critical of Robert Jenrick for failing to do enough clamp down on our on our borders he called him a fraud in August so it hasn't been a happy relationship we could say Yeah, before we got on to that, I just want to note very quickly that it's a very tough day for Lord Offord, the new leader of the Reform Party in Scotland, who has severely had his thunder stolen.

6:23But yes, it is true that they have said very rude things about each other in the past. It was also true about Nadeem Zahawi, who defected earlier this week. I think what these stories show partly is that they are very embarrassing, and they will certainly be turned out to demonstrate that they aren't friends. I don't actually think it will matter that much. I think over time, people are used to the idea that politicians are rude about each other. And probably once they're singing from the same hymn sheet, it will be something that they can quite quickly get past. But it certainly is an indication that they're both very ambitious men.

6:55And they're not doing this because they're best mates. Keir Starmer has said that reform, after the defection of Nadim Zahawi earlier this week, that reform was becoming a sort of holding pen for conservative has-beens. Is that going to hold any sway, do you think, moving forward? Will that have impact with people considering voting for reform? I think it's a really difficult thing for Faraj to navigate. And I think the word has been is important. I think Zahawi does look like a bit of a has been. I think whatever one thinks about Generic's politics, he is clearly a figure in the present of the Conservative Party.

7:29And that is very important. And a really interesting thing to look out for over the next few days is whether, if indeed Jenrick does go, those who might be seen as the next generation of the right of the Conservative Party, people like Katie Lam, who has some extremely reform -adjacent views, and is, I think, in her early 30s, if people like her start to defect, it will start to look like the herd is moving. You know, it's interesting. It's actually been a really good period, relatively speaking, for Kemi Bedenok. She seems to have stemmed some of the bleeding. And I think you could also say that the way she has handled this has been quite effective.

8:06It's put her on the front foot. It hasn't given Jenrick the chance to tell his story first, whatever that story might be. But it demonstrates that it comes in the context of a really difficult story for the Conservatives, which is that there is this big force on the right of politics. And even if they can score tactical victories, the strategic direction is very, very hard. Yeah, and Generic is now, I think, the 23rd Tory to defect to reform, which, yeah, clearly is not great for the Tories. But as you say, some really savvy politics from Kimi Baden-Og after a good run, not least because this is someone that ran against her to be leader of the Tory party last year, who they'd given a very big shadow cabinet job.

8:49But it was, you know, Genric has long been reported to be on manoeuvres for some time, as you said. Yeah, and he will look to, I think, the average person who's not deeply engaged in politics like a bit of a snake. I think it will look to a lot of people who are deeply engaged in politics like a bit of a snake as well, to be honest. I think the only thing I'd say is that although it looks like a savvy bit of politics from her right now, we'll see where we are in 24 hours. This is a story that's really evolving quickly. Probably the people at the moment who are happiest about how it's going are Labour.

9:17Because the more that these two parties feel like they're neck and neck and vying for the same political space, the better it is for their hopes of hanging on in the next election to a parliamentary majority. We talk a lot about the shifting of the Overton window. I mean, is it not bad for Labour that a shadow Tory minister moves over to the other main opposition that puts pressure on Labour to tack ever further right too, right? Yeah, well, I guess we're in, it's the same thing really as the question about whether this is a good or a bad morning for Kemi Baden-Ock. It's the difference between tactics and strategy.

9:52And all of this stuff might be quite useful because it looks like a bunch of cats fighting like rats in a sack. No, what is the phrase? Let's do rats in a sack. I think it's rats. All of this might be quite useful on one level for Labour because it looks like the right are a bunch of rats in a sack. but it is also an indication that the centre of gravity in British politics has shifted decisively to the right and it's continuing to go that way. Well Archie we'll let you get back downstairs it's going to be a busy afternoon thank you so much. It sure is all right thank you.

10:25That's it for today my thanks again to Archie Bland the Guardian's head of national news and you can keep up with all our reporting on this over at theguardian.com. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Latest the new evening edition of Today in Focus. We'll be bringing you what you need to know about the story everyone's talking about in around 10 minutes. This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hough. The producer was Bryony Moore. The lead producer was Zoe Hitch.

10:54This is The Guardian.